This is page numbers 469 - 494 of the Hansard for the 12th Assembly, 3rd Session. The original version can be accessed on the Legislative Assembly's website or by contacting the Legislative Assembly Library. The word of the day was chairman.

Members Present

Hon. Titus Allooloo, Mr. Antoine, Mr. Arngna'naaq, Mr. James Arvaluk, Hon. Michael Ballantyne, Hon. Nellie Cournoyea, Mr. Dent, Mr. Gargan, Hon. Stephen Kakfwi, Mr. Koe, Mr. Lewis, Mrs. Marie-Jewell, Hon. Rebecca Mike, Hon. Don Morin, Hon. Richard Nerysoo, Mr. Ningark, Mr. Patterson, Hon. John Pollard, Mr. Pudlat, Mr. Pudluk, Hon. John Todd, Mr. Whitford, Mr. Zoe

---Prayer

Item 1: Prayer
Item 1: Prayer

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The Speaker Michael Ballantyne

Good afternoon. Orders of the day. Item 2, Ministers' statements. Mr. Kakfwi.

Stephen Kakfwi

Stephen Kakfwi Sahtu

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. At the request of ordinary Members, I deferred a statement on staff housing yesterday in order to allow the Member for Thebacha to speak about the concerns of the Ordinary Members' Caucus.

It is good that ordinary Members agree that the government is headed in the right direction with its long-term staff housing strategy. Members are also seeking answers to a number of issues which must be addressed in this Assembly.

As a result, a document containing detailed technical responses to the questions will be circulated to all Members on Friday or tabled in the House if translation is completed. The document will help in our discussion of this important initiative.

As you know, I announced the other day that implementation of the strategy will begin July 1, rather than April 1 of this year. This decision was made for a number of reasons. Some of them are technical and concern the serving of rental increase notices. Other reasons deal with concerns by employees that they do not have enough information or they do not understand the level of subsidies which will still be available.

That is understandable. We have been trying to clean up an incredible administrative mess in staff housing which took 25 years to create. The extra time will be used to make sure the 1,800 staff members affected by the changes develop a better understanding of the strategy and will know exactly what the next rates will mean to their personal budgets.

Most Members of this House know that our strategy is long overdue. We have been moving towards this day for at least 12 years now and Members of the Legislative Assembly have been persistent in their direction that the government get out of providing staff housing.

In 1979 a task force on housing made up of union and government representatives came to basically the same conclusions about the solutions needed in the housing sector. In 1985, the Assembly's Special Committee on Housing included a staff housing component in its review. However, the recommendations of the reviews were not fully implemented and, over three years ago, a committee was established and mandated by the former Government Leader to develop the long-term staff housing strategy.

More recently, market rents and user-pay utilities were implemented in Fort Smith, Hay River and Yellowknife. Implementation of these elements of the strategy was described as an interim step pending the completion of the long term strategy that was finalized and announced last December.

Mr. Speaker, it is important to remind ourselves that the housing strategy was designed to meet a number of objectives:

-We want to end the dramatic differences that presently exist in the amount of money paid by employees renting similar sized units, sometimes even within the same community;

-We are determined to narrow the gap between what our staff is paying for accommodation compared to what an employee is the private sector faces each and every month; and

-We want to encourage home ownership and stimulate the growth of private sector housing markets in as many locations as possible. By April of next year, the government will no longer be providing housing units to employees, including Ministers and MLAs, in Yellowknife, Hay River, Fort Smith and Inuvik.

---Applause

Where home ownership is not practical, the strategy will encourage the private sector to develop accommodation. Heavily subsidized rents and utilities in the majority of our communities presently discourage tenants from seeking alternative accommodation, even when it is available. As a result, private developers are putting their money elsewhere. Use of occupancy guarantee provisions of the strategy will provide the type of certainty these developers need in order to get a return on their investment.

The Cabinet is convinced the new strategy, with its provisions for increased rents, user-pay utilities, protection for low income earners and options for home ownership, is the right way to go. We have listened to the concerns of the Members of the Legislative Assembly and have taken the time to listen and consider issues which have been raised by employees. Recent adjustments to the long-term staff housing strategy reflect that commitment.

For instance, user-pay for heating and water/sewage will be implemented July 1, 1994, a little over 16 months from now, rather than September of this year. The delay will give everyone ample time to adjust their expenditures to ensure their shelter costs can be met.

In addition, nurses in the Northwest Territories face some rather unique situations in respect to accommodation. Many of them live in nothing more than a small sitting room attached to a nursing clinic and do not enjoy reasonable levels of privacy, security and comfort.

As a result, the government is adjusting rents for nurses based on the type of accommodation and whether or not they share common facilities such as kitchens and washrooms.

The rents, which include utility charges, will vary from $750 to $1,000 a month. When the standard accommodation allowance is applied to these figures, the actual monthly rate will range from $300 to $550 per month.

Where nurses have reasonable levels of privacy and security, they will be charged a market rate and a flat charge of $150 per month for utilities. Nursing living in detached housing units will be considered in the same manner as all other employees of the government.

In many other cases, tenants are concerned about the condition of their accommodation and disagree with the assigned sizes of their units, which are used to calculate monthly rental rates. We appreciate there are some legitimate concerns. We want to address them in a fair and reasonable manner.

The government knows that some of its units are in poor condition and that this could mean higher than normal heating charges. Because of this, DPW, Personnel and the Housing Corporation staff will travel to all communities to conduct energy efficiency audits and to take new measurements if required. This process will identify units that are not up to standard. Based on this information, the government will lower rents accordingly until the units are repaired. If it is not practical to repair the unit, the lower rental rate will continue. Because employees and off-highway communities are interested in purchasing their government occupied unit, the strategy has been changed to let them do so, rather than limiting the sale to surplus housing only. All units in non-market communities will be appraised by a private sector appraiser with tenant involvement. The selling price will be based on the cost of replacement, depreciated by the age, and condition of the accommodation.

As well, employees in communities where there are no active real estate agencies, will be able to purchase their units for a cost that is 90 per cent of the depreciated value. This final adjustment recognizes the government will not be paying normal real estate agency fees, legal costs and transactions of this type.

The government believes these changes are positive and that they recognize many of the concerns expressed by employees over the last few months.

We are also confident the strategy will eliminate the conflicting policies currently in place in the public and staff housing programs and that the changes will generate more housing starts by developers and improve the overall housing inventory in the territories.

Combined with the home ownership incentives announced by the Housing Corporation, the new approach to staff housing will provide a package of attractive options for all residents in all areas of the Northwest Territories.

It will also ensure that employees living in government provided accommodation get the kind of protection they need, should they not be able to pay for the cost of their shelter.

There has been a great deal of concern over the implementation of the hardship allowance. Many employees see it as a form of social assistance and are insulted that a wage earner should have to apply for it. As a result, we have revised our thinking on this matter. So, instead of a hardship allowance, tenants will receive shelter assistance provided in the form of a rental reduction. It will make sure that total shelter costs will not exceed 30 per cent of gross household income. Gross household income means the combined total incomes earned by every person living in each household including salaries, commissions, investment interests, pensions and the standard accommodation allowance. Settlement allowances, however, will be excluded. Income from such sources as child tax credit payments, boarding allowances for students, retraining allowances, income of full-time students, treaty payments, and social assistance payments will also be excluded. Exclusion of settlement allowances from gross household income will ensure that tenants in small communities will not have their eligibility for shelter assistance calculated against a higher base income than their Yellowknife counterparts, who enjoy a lower cost of living.

In conclusion, Mr. Speaker, the long-term housing strategy, and the changes I have noted today, should provide greater certainty to occupants of government provided housing and start us towards equity and housing opportunities among all territorial residents. Finally, we welcome the Assembly's review of the strategy and want Members to know that our staff is prepared to sit down with each Member of this Legislature to review the concerns of individual constituents, house by house, or case by case. Thank you.

---Applause

The Speaker Michael Ballantyne

Item 2, Ministers' statements. Mr. Kakfwi.

Minister's Statement 35-12(3): Pay Equity
Item 2: Ministers' Statements

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Stephen Kakfwi

Stephen Kakfwi Sahtu

Mr. Speaker, at the last sitting of the House, I was asked a question about our pay equity liability. At that time the matter was under negotiations and I asked that I not be forced to answer it, and compromise those negotiations.

Mr. Speaker, the government is committed to the principle of pay equity and wishes to ensure that its employees are treated fairly and equitably. We had hoped for a negotiated settlement to avoid the need for expensive legal proceedings. These negotiations concluded last week. Unfortunately, it was not possible to come to an agreement as the parties were too far apart. Out of respect for the confidentiality of the negotiation process, I will not give you details of our offer or the union's demands. However, I can say that our positions are over $50 million apart. I am informing Members of the status of these negotiations so that they are aware of a substantial potential pay equity liability. Mr. Speaker, I will keep this House informed of any new developments on this issue. Thank you.

Minister's Statement 35-12(3): Pay Equity
Item 2: Ministers' Statements

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The Speaker Michael Ballantyne

Mrs. Marie-Jewell.

Jeannie Marie-Jewell Thebacha

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I would like to move the long-term staff housing strategy Minister's statement into committee of the whole. Thank you.

The Speaker Michael Ballantyne

Is there a seconder to the motion? Mr. Patterson. The motion is in order. All those in favour? All those opposed? Minister's Statement 34-12(3) will be placed on the order paper for committee of the whole.

---Carried

Item 2, Ministers' Statements. Ms. Mike.

Rebecca Mike Baffin Central

Qujannamiik. (Translation) Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I will be speaking in Inuktitut. Mr. Speaker, the AIDS virus, known as HIV, has been recognized as a serious concern for the future health of residents of the Northwest Territories since 1986. Since then, a major effort has been made to ensure that all NWT residents were made aware of the risk of infection and how to protect themselves. In spite of knowing about the risks, there is evidence that many people are not taking action. Within communities and regions, the understanding of AIDS/HIV infection is good and improving, but there is evidence that many people are not accepting the information. They are not practising "safer sex."

The patterns of infection in the NWT are unlike that of southern Canada, where the disease is found mainly among homosexual males and in drug users. In the NWT, the pattern is more like that found in most other parts of the world, where the disease is spread mainly by sexual contact between men and women.

Mr. Speaker, in the NWT, HIV infections have been reported in the young and in the old, among men and women, among aboriginal and non-aboriginal, in the "gay" and in the "straight" community, and among the rich and the poor. AIDS can be everyone's disease, and it is everyone's problem. We all must take it seriously if the epidemic now upon us is to be stopped.

It has become clear that public education activities to date have not been successful in changing sexual behaviour, which places people at risk of HIV infection. An effort to find out more about the attitude and beliefs that affect sexual behaviour is under way. Public educational materials will be redesigned to take advantage of information regarding their relative effectiveness.

Mr. Speaker, in 1991 this Assembly took some comfort from the seemingly slow spread of HIV infection among us. This year, there is little comfort from the rapid increase in reported cases and great peril in the evidence that even those who are aware of the risk of HIV infection are failing to protect themselves. We must convince everyone that they are at increasing risk of infection from unprotected sex. Stopping AIDS is up to all of us, the future existence of NWT society is at stake. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

The Speaker Michael Ballantyne

Item 2, Ministers' statements. Item 3, Members' statements. Mrs. Marie-Jewell.

Jeannie Marie-Jewell Thebacha

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I rise today to clarify some accusations that have been made about me recently in the media. I am referring to the Focus North

program, which was aired on CBC February 1 and then on TVNC on February 3, 1993.

Mr. Speaker, it concerns me greatly that the media feels free to make allegations which are completely unfounded with no attempt on their part to verify their story with the person they are accusing. I was fortunate to see this program, but how many others have not been aware that their names have been thrown around with such disregard for the truth. I have learned to be sceptical of what the media chooses to tell the public. I certainly hope others do the same.

In this case, Mr. Speaker, the media insinuated that I had acted improperly while I was a Member of Cabinet. The program said that I awarded "choice government jobs" to family members. This is far from the truth. No evidence was offered to support this allegation and I was not even granted the courtesy of being contacted to see if this was the case. I would like to know what has happened to the journalistic principles of collecting and presenting the facts? I guess, in the eyes of Focus North, these ethics are outdated. They manufacture allegations to suit their story and to cause sensation. They pretend that they are the judge and jury.

After Focus North aired this program, I contacted their office to correct them and gave them the information that they could have obtained from me before airing the story. An apology was aired on the February 8 and 10 programs. Focus North admitted that they were not aware of any instances where I had acted as they suggested. I appreciate that this step was taken. However, I do wonder why the apology did not receive the same air time as the original allegation and why Focus North aired my picture during the original story, but chose not to do so for the apology.

---Applause

Mr. Speaker, I seek unanimous consent to continue my Member's statement.

The Speaker Michael Ballantyne

The Member is seeking unanimous consent. Are there any nays? There are no nays. Please proceed, Mrs. Marie-Jewell.

Jeannie Marie-Jewell Thebacha

Mr. Speaker, by choosing not to air my picture during the apology, as they did for the original story, it would not have left the same impression with the public. Rather than making a simple and clear admission that they were wrong, Focus North chose to proceed their retraction with comments that made the apology superficial, at best. It appeared that Focus North was trying to leave room for doubt. I would have hoped that journalistic integrity, if not the wisdom that comes with maturity to admit sincerely when one is wrong, would have required a more convincing apology. Perhaps, apologies are too embarrassing in the television business. In any event, Mr. Speaker, my comments today are intended to correct any false impression that may have been left as a result of Focus North's shoddy reporting. As well, not everyone watches every episode of that program. I want to make it clear that the allegations and the insinuations made were not justified and not true.

While I was a Member of Cabinet, and in all my dealings with the House, I placed a priority on conducting myself with honesty and candidness, which caused much criticism to be directed my way. I wish all members of the northern media would make a concerted effort to be conscientious of determining the facts before spreading rumours to the public. Thank you.

---Applause

The Speaker Michael Ballantyne

Item 3, Members' statements. Mr. Pudluk.

Dumping Of Contaminants Into The Sea
Item 3: Members' Statements

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Ludy Pudluk High Arctic

(Translation) Thank you, Mr. Speaker. We have to protect the northern environment, specifically, we have to protect the environment surrounding our communities, from all pollutants. PanArctic Oil commenced oil exploration by drilling in the 1960s on the islands of the high Arctic, and are now in the last year of operation. Last year they were given a permit from the federal government to get rid of their metal waste and dump it into the sea. Because they have been given a permit to allow them to do this, they are now asking to do additional dumping this year. This year PanArctic plans to dump 400 tons of metal waste into the sea. Four hundred tons is about the size of Grise Fiord. The waste the company is planning to dump will not make much difference right now, but as Inuit people know, this will affect the wildlife we have depended on for years and will continue to depend on for years to come.

People living in the high Arctic are very concerned about the dumping of metal waste in the sea by PanArctic, and do not want any more of this, because they know that salt water is so strong it will eventually erode metal and waste contaminants. Waters of the high Arctic are not a dumping ground. PanArctic Oil was not worried about the cost to freight their equipment when they went to the high Arctic, but now that they have completed their explorations they are worried that it will be too expensive to bring their metal waste back down south. This is not acceptable to us. In 1953 when the federal government relocated the Inuit from northern Quebec to Resolute Bay and Grise Fiord they were not told they were being relocated to a dumping ground.

Dumping Of Contaminants Into The Sea
Item 3: Members' Statements

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The Speaker Michael Ballantyne

You have exceeded the allotted time, Mr. Pudluk.

Dumping Of Contaminants Into The Sea
Item 3: Members' Statements

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Ludy Pudluk High Arctic

I would like to ask for unanimous consent to continue.

Dumping Of Contaminants Into The Sea
Item 3: Members' Statements

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The Speaker Michael Ballantyne

The Member is seeking unanimous consent. Are there any nays? There are no nays. Please proceed, Mr. Pudluk.

Dumping Of Contaminants Into The Sea
Item 3: Members' Statements

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Ludy Pudluk High Arctic

(Translation) Thank you, colleagues. They were not told they were being relocated to a dumping ground. Instead they were told they were being relocated to a land that was clean with an abundance of wildlife and a better future. We do not accept the proposal of PanArctic to, once again, dump more metal waste into our sea because this will affect us in the future. I also think there should be a study done on wildlife in the sea and the food chain of wildlife in the high Arctic. Thank you.

Dumping Of Contaminants Into The Sea
Item 3: Members' Statements

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The Speaker Michael Ballantyne

Item 3, members' statements. Mr. Lewis.

Details Of Staff Housing Strategy
Item 3: Members' Statements

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Brian Lewis Yellowknife Centre

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Our government has not done well in the handling of its staff housing policy. Mr. Speaker, we expect leadership and a sense of clear policy direction. In this case, I believe most of us agree with the policy objective, however, there has been a lack of clarity in placing those objectives in front of us. Much of this difficulty could have been avoided if the government had announced its policy in less detail. Many of the details could then have been worked out with various employers and associations through joint consultation. Instead changes are being made as a result of a bewildering variety of assaults on the policy from many quarters. It has made the government look very bad in my opinion. I believe it is now too late to commence a process of joint consultation, since the policy has been announced in considerable and ever-changing detail.

Agreeing to joint consultation, Mr. Speaker, should not be seen as a mechanism for subverting the will of the policy-makers. It should not be seen as a sign of weakness. It should be viewed as the very best way of ironing out the details with the people most affected by the policy. This is not a major public policy issue, Mr. Speaker. It is really a matter of a relationship between our government and the staff it employs to carry out its issues and its will.

The degree to which this issue is now dominating the political agenda of this Assembly is an affront when there are so many major issues affecting the future of our territories to be considered. If we find this issue dominates our time and effort to the exclusion of other pressing matters, Mr. Speaker, the fault clearly lies with this government in the way this issue has been handled.

I shall not be pursuing it publicly in this House because I believe it is a matter between our government and its staff. It should not be dominating an Assembly which is supposed to deal with all the major issues that are affecting the people of the Northwest Territories. Thank you.

---Applause

Details Of Staff Housing Strategy
Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 473

The Speaker Michael Ballantyne

Item 3, members' statements. Mr. Gargan.

Samuel Gargan Deh Cho

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I rise today to comment on the Social Service's policy which requires people who work at community-based alcohol and drug counselling facilities to make a commitment to abstain from the use of intoxicants.

Mr. Speaker, I support this policy. I have supported it right from the outset. I was pleased when my honourable colleague for Thebacha introduced a policy near the end of her term as the Minister of Social Services. I was pleased when both Mr. Whitford and Mr. Patterson continued to recognize the importance of this initiative.

Mr. Speaker, I feel it is more important than ever before to ensure that the dollars we are spending on alcohol drug prevention programs are having a maximum impact. I believe one of the factors in maximizing these effects are the positive role models which are presented to community residents by a healthy outlook and a personal commitment shown by alcohol and drug workers to embrace a substance-free life-style.

Contrary to earlier concerns, I believe this policy has proved to be enforceable and it has not lowered the morale or hindered the recruitment of workers as some opponents previously suggested. I would urge our new Minister of Social Services, the Honourable Rebecca Mike, to ensure this sobriety initiative remains as a basic cornerstone of the Government of the Northwest Territories funding agreements with the alcohol and drug agencies throughout the Northwest Territories. In doing so, she will be supporting the progress that has been realized to date and continuing the trend that has made the Northwest Territories alcohol and drug programs a leader amongst provincial and territorial administrators. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

The Speaker Michael Ballantyne

Item 3, members' statements. Mr. Patterson.