Thank you. Mr. Minister.
Debates of March 4th, 1993
Topics
Bill 17: Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1993-94
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 747
The Chair Ludy Pudluk
Bill 17: Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1993-94
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 747
Stephen Kakfwi Sahtu
Mr. Chairman, we met with the Solicitor General in January in Ottawa and we agreed that we should look jointly at the idea of bringing northern inmates serving time in southern penitentiaries and other southern institutions with a view to seeing if it is of benefit to both the federal and territorial governments to look at providing new facilities in the Northwest Territories for the majority of those inmates. There was an agreement. The Minister agreed that was a good suggestion to make and he has directed his officials to prepare themselves to start discussions on this. There is no commitment, but he thought it was a good idea and there would be instructions for his staff to investigate the idea. The first meeting we are having between our staff is in Edmonton this month.
Bill 17: Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1993-94
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 747
The Chair Ludy Pudluk
Thank you. Corrections. Mr. Koe.
Bill 17: Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1993-94
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 747
Fred Koe Inuvik
Thank you. I just wanted an update. I think an ideal location for a federal penitentiary would be in the Delta area. Mahsi.
Bill 17: Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1993-94
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 747
The Chair Ludy Pudluk
Thank you. Corrections. Total O and M, $19.727 million. Member for Thebacha.
Bill 17: Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1993-94
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 747
Jeannie Marie-Jewell Thebacha
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. On the corrections page in the second paragraph, it indicates that the institutional mandate is to administer the disposition of the courts in accordance with statutory requirements by providing for the safe custody and detention of adult and young offenders sentenced to a period of incarceration or those remanded into custody. Mr. Chairman, I would like to know how the Minister justifies the tabled document, which I tabled today in the House regarding the sexual assault of inmates in the Hay River youth centre, when his mandate is to provide safe custody of these young offenders who are sentenced? How are the supervisory roles taking place? Are they adequate or inadequate that sexual assaults of young offenders is happening in our facilities? Thank you.
Bill 17: Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1993-94
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 747
The Chair Ludy Pudluk
Thank you. Mr. Minister.
Bill 17: Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1993-94
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 747
Stephen Kakfwi Sahtu
Mr. Chairman, the incident that the Member is referring to, happens not only here in the Northwest Territories, but in other places in the country. The facilities house offenders, people who commit offences of different natures. We cannot realistically believe that they would not be inclined, some time during their incarceration, to consider committing further crimes. This particular incident does not discourage me from stating what I feel is the mandate of corrections. This is what our intention is. This is what we think our job is and when incidents such as this arise, of course we are concerned and we check it out. We have had a thorough review and investigation into this particular incident. Some measures to try to minimize the recurrence of such an incident is being looked at. The fact is that we cannot watch each individual inmate 24 hours per day. We do not have the ability to do this. We simply cannot do it. There are going to be cases where offences are committed within the facilities. It is our job to do what it is that we feel our mandates are.
Bill 17: Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1993-94
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 747
The Chair Ludy Pudluk
Thank you. Member for Thebacha.
Bill 17: Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1993-94
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 748
Jeannie Marie-Jewell Thebacha
Mr. Chairman, it concerns me when the Minister has this type of attitude, "We are looking after inmates and well, sometimes these things happen." I know those things happen. This is why I am asking the Minister about what he is trying to do to prevent these types of things from happening and to ensure the public that the custody provided for young offenders is going to be safe, to prevent them from being sexually assaulted in one of those facilities. What type of supervision is taking place in these facilities where these things can happen? Is there an investigation or review being done in this particular incident? I suspect there should be one. What type of measures is this department taking to avoid these things from recurring? I do not think the Minister would want a young offender facility where all of a sudden he is going to find young girls possibly pregnant who were supposed to be put into those facilities for safe custody, to protect the public and to also protect the individual. If you take the attitude that these things happen, they can happen. Could the Minister advise us as to what type of preventative measures are taken by the department to avoid them from happening? It would be appreciated, thank you.
Bill 17: Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1993-94
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 748
The Chair Ludy Pudluk
Thank you. Mr. Minister.
Bill 17: Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1993-94
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 748
Stephen Kakfwi Sahtu
Mr. Chairman, there is nothing wrong with my attitude. I do not encourage this. We have had an investigation into this particular situation and the offender was charged, as I understand it. The RCMP did a complete investigation. They found no evidence of any negligence or wrong-doing on the part of the staff. We have cameras, we have locked doors, and we have a staff who try to supervise the inmates. However, aside from locking them up individually in little cubby holes and having 24 hour one on one guards, we will never be able to have a complete fool proof system to prevent inmates from inflicting abuse or offences on one another. I am not going to mislead the Member or Members of the Legislature in saying that this is a possibility. These incidents are taken very seriously and we work very hard to try to make improvements. At a certain point, I think we have to admit there are limitations on our capabilities.
Bill 17: Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1993-94
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 748
The Chair Ludy Pudluk
Thank you. Corrections, total O and M, $19.727 million. Member for Thebacha.
Bill 17: Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1993-94
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 748
Jeannie Marie-Jewell Thebacha
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Can the Minister indicate to me any type of preventative measures which are taking place in order to avoid this type of incident from recurring? Thank you.
Bill 17: Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1993-94
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 748
The Chair Ludy Pudluk
Thank you. Mr. Minister.
Bill 17: Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1993-94
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 748
Stephen Kakfwi Sahtu
Mr. Chairman, as I have said there was an investigation. There has been a review by corrections to see what can be done to improve the security and measures we can take to make sure that inmates, and particularly young offenders, are protected and monitored. While I am not too interested in disclosing what they are right now because they are part of security arrangements being made, I would be willing to share those with the Member in a private meeting.
Bill 17: Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1993-94
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 748
The Chair Ludy Pudluk
Thank you. Member for Thebacha.
Bill 17: Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1993-94
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 748
Jeannie Marie-Jewell Thebacha
Mr. Chairman, I would appreciate it because I am concerned. We have a young offenders facility and an open custody type facility in our community. I am somewhat concerned that there appears to be a lack of supervision in these facilities, and sometimes the facilities which were initially built were not structured for a young offenders facility. The structure of the building makes it difficult for ongoing supervision. However, it concerns me when incidents such as this happens in young offender facilities or group homes. I certainly would appreciate finding out what type of measures we have taken to prevent this from recurring.
Mr. Chairman, I have one more request of the Minister. Can we possibly get a list of the type of programs which are delivered to all of the correctional centres? With respect to comments made by my colleague from Iqaluit, with regard to the young offenders open custody land programs, Mr. Chairman, I agree with the concept, however, I believe that if the Minister is going to look at this type of land program for young offenders that a program such as this has to be looked at and considered equally across the territories, and not just in one particular region.
Bill 17: Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1993-94
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 748
Some Hon. Members
Agreed.
Bill 17: Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1993-94
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 748
Jeannie Marie-Jewell Thebacha
I believe that we should consider looking in future budgets to try to aim for more money or, perhaps, take it from adult corrections to be able to develop these type of programs for young offenders. Those are my comments, Mr. Chairman, thank you.
Bill 17: Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1993-94
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 748
The Chair Ludy Pudluk
Thank you. Corrections, total O and M, $19.727 million. Mr. Arvaluk.
Bill 17: Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1993-94
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 748
James Arvaluk Aivilik
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I have a quick question. What is the status of the Coral Harbour justice program which was jointly planned by the hamlet and your department?
Bill 17: Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1993-94
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 748
The Chair Ludy Pudluk
Thank you. Mr. Minister.
Bill 17: Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1993-94
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 748
Stephen Kakfwi Sahtu
We have a tentative agreement on that and once the RCMP have finalized their detailed planning for the pilot project it will proceed, I think by the fall.
Bill 17: Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1993-94
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 748
The Chair Ludy Pudluk
Corrections. Total O and M, $19,727 million. Agreed?