Thank you. Mr. Todd.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. With respect to Mr. Gargan's concern with the community plan in Fort Providence and the need to perhaps consider moving the maintenance component, I am told it could be a very expensive exercise. Perhaps with some readjustment and some shrinking of the program it is possible. I would be prepared to take a look at it within the certain financial constraints that we all operate in.

The concern with respect to whether there is a tripartite agreement in place between Alberta, NWT and the federal government with respect to the Fort Chipewyan all-weather road, which is a concern of Mrs. Marie-Jewell's from Thebacha, yes, there are discussions under way. We are far from an agreement but there is a committee which is looking into this and trying to come forward with some compromise as to how we can accomplish this end.

On the winter roads, the honourable Member knows I am a strong proponent of negotiated contracts particularly as they relate to aboriginal people. As you know, I have made no apologizes for that. I want to assure him that the department has been given instructions that where there are significant economic benefits, and where it is cost-effective, we will continue in that vein. With that in mind, I want to assure the honourable Member, that most of the winter roads we are doing, 60 per cent, are being done by private contractors, particularly in the Mackenzie and Delta area. We recently negotiated a contract with Nishi-Khon/PCL for the Lac La Martre-Rae Lakes road. I am hopeful and confident that these kinds of initiatives and that kind of financial expenditure will result in making life a little better for those who are active in it. I am confident that this can happen.

On the maintenance of highways, the honourable Members knows there is a significant amount of aboriginal and northern people who are permanent employees of the department. That has to be taken into consideration when we look at privatizing the maintenance of the highways. This is being looked at. We are working on this problem. Perhaps not as much as some would like, but we have to give due consideration to northern people who are sitting in permanent positions in that particular function. I want to assure the honourable Member that where it can be done, and everybody knows my record on privatization, I am a strong proponent of that, but where it can be done and does not jeopardize northern employment, whether it is the transfer of people to the private sector, or whatever, we are certainly prepared to take a look at it.

On the Member's concerns with respect to emergency response, I think it is woefully inadequate. There is no question of that. It is a concern which has been raised by others. The department is part of a coordinated effort under MACA to look into this. I think we, as an Assembly, need to take a hard look at the resources which we are putting into it and hopefully this can be accomplished over the next six to eight months.

I agree with the Member with respect to signage. I think we need to get signs out that tell a story. We have to tell our story regarding what the north is all about. I did a bit of a tour of Newfoundland recently and travelled their highways. On their highways, there are signs that tell you everything. They tell you what you are coming to, what you are going to see, where the visitors centres are, where the coffee shops are, et cetera. I would agree with the honourable Member that we have to get a little more creative. It does not cost a heck of a lot more money to let people know where they are and what is there, et cetera. I will take a look at this and ask the department to take a look at this. Perhaps, as has been suggested, we should become a little more creative in telling the message and the story which we have to tell.

Regarding the weigh scale operation, it is my understanding that we do currently run two shifts. We are working towards

trying to improve it. We recognize we do not capture everyone who we want to capture.

Hopefully, we can make things more effective than they are. Again, we are working under certain financial limitations. I know that the honourable Member has a long-standing dispute with the highway patrol. I will look into this matter more carefully to see if we can improve the need to be more vigilant with respect to the weigh scale operation. Thank you.

Thank you. General comments, Mr. Gargan.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, with regard to the relocation of the maintenance facility in Fort Providence, we no longer require graders as opposed to trucks with blades on them. Eventually I see the maintenance facility in Fort Providence reducing. It is not going to cost the department that much more to build a smaller facility. I would hope that is the long-term plan. In the meantime, with the improvement of the highway system with chip seal or pavement, you will see a reduction in the maintenance cost. You will probably have to downgrade your equipment to just use it for scraping snow as opposed to gravel.

Thank you. Mr. Minister.

The Member is correct. As we move forward with improving the highways, however slow it is with limited dollars, there certainly will be a requirement to change our method of operation which will hopefully result in lower maintenance costs. I want to assure Mr. Gargan that we are going to take a look at the Fort Providence situation, if there is a give and take with respect to the size of it and what is now required as opposed to what was required in the past, I am sure we can come to an appropriate compromise that would meet both the department's and his constituency's requirements. Thank you.

Thank you. General comments. Mr. Antoine.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I have a few comments I want to make on the Department of Transportation. My first comment deals with the transportation strategy. I am glad to hear that the Minister and his department are going to be pursuing this transportation strategy developed by the former government. One area that concerns me the most is the highway going down the Mackenzie Valley. Presently there is work that began in the Wrigley area at Willow Lake River to build a bridge and upgrade the existing highway to be used by June of 1994. I am quite happy and it is an indication by the government that they are moving ahead with the strategy. My concern is what comes after that? There has been talk for many years that the Mackenzie Highway will continue down the Mackenzie Valley to Wrigley, north to Fort Norman, to Norman Wells, and on to Inuvik. What is the position of the Department of Transportation continuing the highway down the valley past Wrigley? Thank you.

Thank you. Mr. Minister.

There are no plans under the existing fiscal framework that we have to continue with any highway,

other than what we have done. The work that was done on that highway up to Mr. Antoine's riding was a federal responsibility that was negotiated in previous years. We now take the responsibility for the operating and maintenance of it and we are putting in that bridge this year. I want to assure the Member that this is a priority clearly in the eyes of the department and myself. There are some rumours afoot that perhaps the energy that is being put into Izok Lake will take away from the bigger scheme of things. That is simply not true. Izok Lake is a specific project that we are going to deal with, but we are going to continue to deal with the overall transportation strategy which includes the completion of the Mackenzie Valley Highway. However, everyone knows that requires significant federal investment in public infrastructure.

Once we have brought the NWT transportation strategy up to what I call "1993 conditions" in consultation with the honourable Member and others, I would see that as a negotiation document for me to move forward, with whoever our new federal counterparts are going to be, to seek funding through a joint initiative to carry on with this large scale road project. It was an issue which was raised in a meeting recently in Norman Wells and I did have some communication with people there. It does require significant federal funding. It is no different than what is happening in the other jurisdictions in Canada, whether it is the QEW in Ontario that is jointly provincially and federally funded or the ferries in BC or the maritimes. We are asking for the same conditions and negotiated deals as are being made with the provincial jurisdictions. I am optimistic that we can move quickly to bring the strategy up to 1993 conditions. Then, we would move to discuss it with our federal counterparts. If you think optimistically, we would hopefully come forward with a reasonable agreement as was originally in the 1989-90 NWT transportation strategy. I think it is incumbent upon me to say at this time that with the limited resources that we have, it simply requires significant federal dollars to accomplish any of it. It is a priority and I am optimistic that by the end of the summer we will be in a position to start negotiations with our federal counterparts.

Thank you. Member for Nahendeh.

Thank you. I wanted to ask a question with regard to airports in the transportation strategy. In the plan it calls for airports to be built in certain communities. One of these airports was bumped back, it was supposed to be built in 1992-93 in Nahanni Butte. I was wondering if you could tell me if it is still in the plans? Thank you.

Thank you. Mr. Todd.

There are about four or five communities left in the Northwest Territories without airstrips of different degrees and Nahanni Butte is one of them. There was an agreement reached on airports between the federal and territorial governments to upgrade and build new airports in certain communities. Nahanni Butte, as I understand it, was not part of that agreement. Whatever happens in Nahanni Butte will have to come out of our existing resources. I would put the question back to the honourable Member by saying, if this is a priority in the eyes of the people in Nahanni Butte, we will endeavour, in our capital exercise, to fit it in somewhere in the plan. It was not part of the initial federal/territorial government agreement to build these "b" and "c" airports.

It would be our intent to incorporate it into the overall capital plan within our existing resources. I do not know when that can happen, but it certainly appears that is where the money would have to come from.

Thank you. Mr. Antoine.

Thank you. Last summer, I was raising concerns with the previous Minister of Transportation about the state of some of the highway system in my constituency. During the summer, it was very rough. I sometimes drive to Yellowknife to do my work over here. Normally, it takes about seven to eight hours, but last summer it took me longer because the roads were very bad. I think that was the first summer they tried something different. I think they put oil on certain parts of the highway system. The workers who put this oil on, DL-10 recommended by your department, were telling me they are supposed to work it a certain way, but they were treating it like a calcium approach to the highway. As a result, the road conditions were very bad in some areas. By the time freeze-up came, I do not think these roads were fixed the way they were supposed to be. I am anticipating another very bad driving summer in my area. Could the Minister tell me if his department is going to do something about the road conditions in my constituency? Thank you.

Thank you. Mr. Minister.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. It is my understanding that this DL-10 was an alternative experiment to calcium on the highways that was a success in some areas and did not work as well in other areas. It is my understanding there is going to be a continuation of the experiment this year to see how effective it is. If there are particular areas that we did not do as well in, then we could perhaps review and take another look at whether we should continue with this experiment. It was an experimental alternative to calcium. I do not know if that answers the question, but we certainly would try to improve the highways. We intend to continue with more experiments with DL-10, an alternative to calcium. Hopefully, if there were problems that Mr. Antoine is alluding to, I am sure they were brought to our attention. We would be in a position this summer and spring to make sure that it does not happen again.

Mr. Antoine.

If the highways are still in bad shape, I will make sure that I bring it to your attention as soon as I can. Thank you.

The other area of concern in my constituency was brought to my attention quite a few times from the communities of Fort Liard and Fort Simpson. On our river called Poplar River, on the highway system south from Fort Simpson the road washed out in 1988 when we had a great deal of water in our country toward the end of June, beginning of July. There was a great deal of rain, so it washed out many bridges. There is a major culvert in this area that failed to keep the water from the road. Up to this day, there is a temporary bridge on the side which is very small. It is very difficult or impossible to transport large houses across that bridge. There was a situation where someone from Fort Liard wanted to transport a house trailer into Fort Liard. He could not bring it in from the BC side because there was a narrow bridge. They brought it in all the way around to High Level, up to Enterprise, around this way close to Simpson and brought it in toward Liard. When they got to the bridge, they had some problems with it, but they managed to get it across. This is the problem that exists there. The people from Liard always ask me, "When are they going to put a decent bridge at Poplar River?" Is there anything in the plans in your department to put a decent bridge or bigger bridge at Poplar River? Thank you.

Thank you. Mr. Minister.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Yes, my understanding from the department is that there was a huge culvert in that area that washed away in the late 1980s. It is in the capital plan to put in a permanent bridge in that area. I am not in the position right now to know exactly when it is. I can get back to the Member on that, but there is clearly a recognition that what we have there is of a temporary nature. It simply does not meet the requirements of that particular road infrastructure and bridge. We will, in our capital plan, make provision for that to take place.

Thank you. Mr. Antoine.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Another concern that was raised by some of my constituents in Liard and Nahanni Butte is in regard to survival cabins. On the highway system, between Simpson and Hay River, every 30 kilometres there is a log cabin on a pullover. It has a stove and wood cut there, in case people have problems along the highway in the winter time, they have a place for survival. The request from the community of Liard and Nahanni Butte is, is there anything in the plans in the policy to put survival cabins on that stretch between Fort Liard and Fort Simpson? They ask because this fall, there was an incident where someone went out with a vehicle to Fort Simpson, and on the way to Simpson, they hit a buffalo, and they went in a ditch. It was about 30 or 40 below zero. Just by luck, the wife of this individual was able to get the RCMP on the road and found them quite a few hours later. It was very cold. If no one went looking for this person, they would have had a tragedy there. The reason for the survival cabins is to take care of people who may have accidents along the highway. The request came from the communities because of this incident. Could the Minister tell me if there is anything in the plans in Transportation for survival cabins? Thank you.