Department Of Health And Social Services
Debates of Oct. 26th, 1994
Topics
Bill 1: Appropriation Act, No. 1, 1995-96Committee Report 10-12(6): Report On The Review Of The 1995-96 Capital Estimates
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 528
Some Hon. Members
Bill 1: Appropriation Act, No. 1, 1995-96Committee Report 10-12(6): Report On The Review Of The 1995-96 Capital Estimates
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 528
Bill 1: Appropriation Act, No. 1, 1995-96Committee Report 10-12(6): Report On The Review Of The 1995-96 Capital Estimates
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 528
John Pollard Hay River
We don't have any problem with the batting order, as it were, Mr. Chairman. But we would request, respectfully, a meeting of the Minister of Health and, in particular, Mr. Lewis, prior to Bill 3 being discussed, just for a few minutes to discuss it. Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman.
Bill 1: Appropriation Act, No. 1, 1995-96Committee Report 10-12(6): Report On The Review Of The 1995-96 Capital Estimates
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 528
The Chair Tony Whitford
This is not a decision that the committee need make, Mr. Pollard; it can be done between the two parties. Mr. Gargan had his hand up. Mr. Gargan.
Bill 1: Appropriation Act, No. 1, 1995-96Committee Report 10-12(6): Report On The Review Of The 1995-96 Capital Estimates
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 528
Samuel Gargan Deh Cho
Mr. Chairman, I don't mind deferring it and continuing with the budget if the government is having some problems that haven't been resolved. I thought they were
resolved so we suggested deliberation of the Guardianship and Trusteeship Act. But, if the government is not prepared, we can continue with Public Works.
Bill 1: Appropriation Act, No. 1, 1995-96Committee Report 10-12(6): Report On The Review Of The 1995-96 Capital Estimates
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 529
The Chair Tony Whitford
Thank you, Mr. Gargan. The committee will consider that when it comes to that particular stage of the process. We will continue with Bill 1. The Minister responsible for Health and Social Services will again, with your permission, take the witness chair.
Bill 1: Appropriation Act, No. 1, 1995-96Committee Report 10-12(6): Report On The Review Of The 1995-96 Capital Estimates
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 529
Some Hon. Members
Agreed.
---Agreed
Bill 1: Appropriation Act, No. 1, 1995-96Committee Report 10-12(6): Report On The Review Of The 1995-96 Capital Estimates
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 529
The Chair Tony Whitford
We have agreement. Sergeant-at-Arms, please assist the Minister.
Your witnesses are on their way, Madam Premier. As a matter of fact, one is here. Madam Premier, are you prepared to introduce your witnesses?
Bill 1: Appropriation Act, No. 1, 1995-96Committee Report 10-12(6): Report On The Review Of The 1995-96 Capital Estimates
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 529
Nellie Cournoyea Nunakput
Yes, at the moment, Mr. Ed Norwich.
Community Development
Bill 1: Appropriation Act, No. 1, 1995-96Committee Report 10-12(6): Report On The Review Of The 1995-96 Capital Estimates
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 529
The Chair Tony Whitford
Welcome, Mr. Norwich to the committee of the whole. When we concluded yesterday's business, we were on page 12-18, detail of capital for Health and Social Services. I was at the point of total buildings and works, $3.320 million. The chair recognizes Mr. Zoe, Mr. Dent and then Mr. Gargan.
Bill 1: Appropriation Act, No. 1, 1995-96Committee Report 10-12(6): Report On The Review Of The 1995-96 Capital Estimates
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 529
Henry Zoe North Slave
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, yesterday before we concluded, the Premier indicated she would be providing additional information in committee of the whole with respect to the issue we were considering at that time, the elders' residence in Fort Resolution. I wonder if the Premier has that information with her this afternoon. Thank you.
Bill 1: Appropriation Act, No. 1, 1995-96Committee Report 10-12(6): Report On The Review Of The 1995-96 Capital Estimates
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 529
Bill 1: Appropriation Act, No. 1, 1995-96Committee Report 10-12(6): Report On The Review Of The 1995-96 Capital Estimates
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 529
Nellie Cournoyea Nunakput
Yes, Mr. Chairman, I have the information. I will provide the information and, hopefully, it will be satisfactory.
Mr. Chairman, the building is in sound condition and would require little or no renovations. However, it is not adequate for elders because there is poor access. The entrances are raised high off the ground, there is no common area, it cannot accommodate level II patients, the rooms are for single individuals, and there are no additional rooms for adopted grandchildren of the elders.
Mr. Chairman, a program has been arrived at, in consultation with the community. The department is still discussing the operation of a coordinated home care program from the proposed building. The size and configuration of the proposed new building, arrived at in consultation with the community, taking into consideration the community needs assessment, is for six separate, independent living units; two beds for 24-hour long-term care; and, two beds for respite care.
The occupancy proposed is that two elders would fill the 24-hour long-term beds; two respite beds will be temporarily occupied by a number of elders who require ongoing care to give care givers a rest; and, six independent living units will be filled by elders who are currently living with families in town, or who are in units that are housing units which are much larger than they need.
Fort Resolution has a long waiting list of residents who need public housing and the units vacated by the elders who moved to the seniors' facilities will relieve overcrowding in the community. So, as I stated yesterday, it would be combined and put into the common housing pool.
The department provides all of the operating funds for the care centre, but not the independent living units. The cost of operating this facility will be $400,000.
Mr. Chairman, I went a little bit further in explaining the old facility and what is proposed so that people get an idea of how it fits into the overall planning of housing for the community of Fort Resolution. Thank you.
Bill 1: Appropriation Act, No. 1, 1995-96Committee Report 10-12(6): Report On The Review Of The 1995-96 Capital Estimates
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 529
Tony Whitford Yellowknife South
Thank you, Madam Premier. Before we continue, would you be so kind as to introduce your second witness who has just arrived.
Bill 1: Appropriation Act, No. 1, 1995-96Committee Report 10-12(6): Report On The Review Of The 1995-96 Capital Estimates
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 529
Nellie Cournoyea Nunakput
Mr. Ken Lovely, deputy minister of Health and Social Services.
Bill 1: Appropriation Act, No. 1, 1995-96Committee Report 10-12(6): Report On The Review Of The 1995-96 Capital Estimates
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 529
Tony Whitford Yellowknife South
Welcome, Mr. Lovely. The chair recognizes the Member for Yellowknife Frame Lake.
Bill 1: Appropriation Act, No. 1, 1995-96Committee Report 10-12(6): Report On The Review Of The 1995-96 Capital Estimates
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 529
Charles Dent Yellowknife Frame Lake
Thanks, Mr. Chairman. I think the Premier has outlined the need for this facility, and I don't think that anybody is denying that the need is there. I think that the Standing Committee on Finance last year -- I know Mr. Lovely will remember this -- was very concerned that there wasn't an overall look at the Northwest Territories, or a needs assessment, to determine where the needs were greatest to put in this kind of facility. I guess a concern still has to be with the process.
A couple of things I would like to bring up that I would like the Premier to address...During the SCOF review last year, the previous Minister assured us that, for instance, the Fort Resolution project would not proceed unless Mr. Morin was successful in reinstating CMHC funding. That was on October 21st. And on October 22, 1993, we received a letter from the chairman of the Financial Management Board who advised us that it was understood that only $972,000 of GNWT money would go towards this facility, and the balance would be funded through a conventional mortgage arranged by Social Services and the local non-profit organization. Now the budget has changed significantly from that $972,000 that we saw last year, and I don't see any reference to a third-party mortgage.
So we've had a couple of things happen here. We've had, one, a promise that it wouldn't proceed unless we got funding reinstated. Then the next day we were told that even if funding wasn't reinstated, there was only a certain amount of money that was committed by this government; the balance would be coming from elsewhere. What's happened to change this because I see the amount of money we're talking about now is considerably more than the $972,000 we were talking about last year.
Bill 1: Appropriation Act, No. 1, 1995-96Committee Report 10-12(6): Report On The Review Of The 1995-96 Capital Estimates
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 530
Bill 1: Appropriation Act, No. 1, 1995-96Committee Report 10-12(6): Report On The Review Of The 1995-96 Capital Estimates
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 530
Nellie Cournoyea Nunakput
Mr. Chairman, with regard to this particular facility, I think that there are a lot of questions, overall planning and approaches that we have to look at. However, I believe that in taking a look at the various options that are available to us that, in order not to disrupt service, some things have to continue in the process and not be deferred because we're looking at an overall approach. So there are some specific programs that have to be taken care of, but it's not in the absence of the fact that we have to take a look at the overall requirements of the Northwest Territories; what is needed and what type of facilities are needed. So that's not an initiative or a commitment that is being put aside in the absence of just going ahead with one of these projects. It appears that this was the most effective way at this point in time to deal with this facility. I believe it's just the ongoing programs that we have, but we still have to look at the more visionary overall approach; we have to take to look at all communities and what their needs are, Mr. Chairman.
Bill 1: Appropriation Act, No. 1, 1995-96Committee Report 10-12(6): Report On The Review Of The 1995-96 Capital Estimates
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 530
Bill 1: Appropriation Act, No. 1, 1995-96Committee Report 10-12(6): Report On The Review Of The 1995-96 Capital Estimates
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 530
Charles Dent Yellowknife Frame Lake
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I get, from the Minister's answer that, to date -- although we were told a year ago that the department was working on it -- there still has not been a territories-wide needs assessment of where elders facilities should be placed. Is that true?
Bill 1: Appropriation Act, No. 1, 1995-96Committee Report 10-12(6): Report On The Review Of The 1995-96 Capital Estimates
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 530
Bill 1: Appropriation Act, No. 1, 1995-96Committee Report 10-12(6): Report On The Review Of The 1995-96 Capital Estimates
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 530
Nellie Cournoyea Nunakput
(Microphone turned off)...if the deputy minister has anything to add. My understanding is that in the housing needs study, the questions on the housing needs also identified housing requirements for elders or aging people. In the study itself or in the questionnaire, we have the information on the general scope of requirements. I would think that our second step now is to find out basically what are we talking about: if we have 20 people in a community who are between the ages of 50 to 75 -- this is an example -- does it have level I or level II requirements, and what are the general trends. I don't think that part of it is nailed down yet. We know what the age groups are that require housing; we know the number of dependants that certain families have, but we haven't really broken down what level of care is required in those communities.
Bill 1: Appropriation Act, No. 1, 1995-96Committee Report 10-12(6): Report On The Review Of The 1995-96 Capital Estimates
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 530
Bill 1: Appropriation Act, No. 1, 1995-96Committee Report 10-12(6): Report On The Review Of The 1995-96 Capital Estimates
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 530
Charles Dent Yellowknife Frame Lake
Mr. Chairman, I had thought that the Premier had said that she was going to ask Mr. Lovely to provide further details.