Thank you, Mr. Zoe. I noticed that you've been extremely nice to the Premier. Does that have something to do with a business partnership? Madam Premier.

Mr. Chairman, I think that the one note that I can say is that the working relationship with the Power Corporation, myself, and the Dogrib, when we're getting into those final talks about dollars and expenses and how it's going to be organized, it's always very, very difficult. It was good working with that group of people. It was a hard and difficult task because it was a first and there had to be a lot of trust and understanding between the government, the Power Corporation and the Dogrib Nation. They had a role to play because being the first, they had to get all their people onside and that was an equally difficult task and we understood that. However, often times I know we did come to an impasse but we were able to work that out. It was difficult but we were able to work it out. I appreciate the positive way that business was done with the Dogrib people because it was not easy.

The other issue was affirmative action. We are trying to get people involved with the Power Corporation. We're very, very interested in that. Like everything else, being responsible for the Power Corporation or the Department of Health or anything else, there has to come a time when the people themselves in the Northwest Territories, even though it will take some time to train people for some of the more professional areas, but there should be a time that the aboriginal people are running most of the affairs of the corporation or the government. We have a lot of work to do. I think Mr. Guthrie can also expand on some of the initiatives we are trying to take to bring people into a working position with the Power Corporation.

Mr. Guthrie.

Mr. Chairman, thank you. Mr. Zoe, I also share your concerns. I would just like to speak to some initiatives this year that I think will start to help us do a better job in the whole area of affirmative action and be the first step in increasing the effort every year. We just added to our staff one extra position in the safety and training area. We also got budget approval to spend a large sum of money to put together an operators' training manual for all of these small plants we have in the Northwest Territories. Down south, there are all kinds of operators' manuals. We could get them, but they are written with big utilities in mind and lots of technical support nearby. Our situation is totally different, so this operators' manual is specific to these small plants and to the people who live in those communities; the idea being we can hire young people from the communities. Then we will have a manual and a training program they can go through to make them safe and efficient.

To build on that, this year we are adding six apprenticeship positions, which may not seem like a lot, but it is a good step. That is so that we can do more than just operator training. For those young people who have the education and desire, firstly looking within our own ranks of the communities --and, if necessary, outside our present employees --we can get six young people apprenticing in mechanical, electrical and lineman trades.

I feel that is a good start for 1995 and we will continue to build on that. Thank you.

Thank you. General comments. Mr. Patterson.

Mr. Chairman, very briefly, I would just like to say I am generally satisfied with the operation of the Power Corporation. I would like to say that, having taken an interest in the PUB hearings about a new system of power rates across the NWT, I was very pleased to note that the corporation changed its strategy and has proposed recently that, as an interim measure, rates should be adjusted to take into account the cost of providing power in each community before finalizing a rate regime. I think this is the right approach to take and was an improvement over the previous proposals and options suggested by the Power Corporation. I think it has taken the right approach on this one. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Thank you. General comments. If not, there is no money to approve here and we are reviewing the NWT Power Corporation's information item. Do we have any further general comments? If not, do we agree then that the review of the NWT Power Corporation is concluded? Agreed?

Agreed.

---Agreed

Thank you very much. Thank you, Premier and witnesses.

Northwest Territories Housing Corporation

We have decided that once we conclude the NWT Power Corporation, we would deal with the NWT Housing Corporation. Mr. Minister, do you have any remarks for this committee?

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I have made my opening remarks already.

Thank you, Mr. Minister. Would you like to resume with your witnesses?

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I will bring in the witnesses.

Do we have the concurrence of the committee that the Minister can bring in his witnesses?

Agreed.

---Agreed

Thank you. Proceed. For the record, would you mind introducing the witnesses again to the committee?

Welcome to the committee. General comments. We are dealing with the NWT Housing Corporation, 1995-96 main estimates. Mr. Koe.

General Comments

Mahsi, Mr. Chairman. I have a few comments on the issue of seniors' housing. I know there have been many comments made over the past few weeks, especially during question period, about seniors' housing and then the impact of our new policies on seniors.

In my recent visits to the communities, I have had contact with people who are very concerned about the impact on them, especially those who currently own their own houses. They have spent a lifetime working and were able to invest in property and have their own house. In many cases, they are still stuck with a mortgage and now the higher cost of power, fuel and other costs to maintain a home.

With the new policies that we have approved here, they look at their neighbours who are living in social housing and are now not paying any rent or any of the cost to maintain a home. They are saying something isn't right. On the one hand, we have worked very hard all of our lives to get to this position and it is costing us an arm and a leg to live. People who live in social housing seem to be fortunate now, in that case. Some balance has to be made somewhere. I know that decisions have been made by this Assembly to change policies but we should look at the issues of subsidies for power. I know there are some small fuel subsidies, and maybe we should look at some mortgage schemes for senior citizens.

The other concern I have, and it's one I've been pushing since I came into this Assembly, is the construction or development of more personal care facilities, especially where you require supervised care in level II, III and even, in some cases, level IV units. Cutbacks by CMHC and the federal government have impacted our ability to provide those kinds of facilities. In the Northwest Territories, we have a very young population but there is still a significant portion of people in communities who are elders and require supervised care. In some cases, family members can provide that but in many cases, it's not happening and these people, especially in the smaller communities, tend to get moved out to larger communities and placed in personal care facilities.

I would just like to know whether or not we've made any headway with the federal government or what the Housing Corporation is doing in trying to provide more funding for personal care units in the communities. Thank you.

Thank you. Minister of the Housing Corporation.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. We'll still continue to lobby the federal government for seniors' facilities as well as funding for cost-shared social housing. We're working with Social Services, as well, to try to come up with a plan for seniors' facilities. The Member is absolutely correct, if you have two houses in any given community and two seniors on identical pensions, the person in a home ownership unit who owns their own home would pay more. The person in a public unit would pay nothing for that unit. The difference is that the person in the home ownership unit who owns their own home would get equity in their building that would be worth money.

Everybody has to understand that in the past, what seniors paid was $32 a month, that was it. We dropped it from $32 to nothing under the new rent scale. I've heard concerns from seniors about not paying rent and I was a bit surprised, I guess, that some felt they should pay rent. Just like any other policy of the Housing Corporation, everything should be reviewed annually and it will be reviewed. But, as it stands today, the decreases came into effect April 1st. Thank you.

Thank you. Mr. Koe.

Mahsi. What about the issue of personal care facilities? I know in the capital plan there are only two new ones approved. Are there any plans in the upcoming years? I think one is going into Fort Resolution and one is going into Fort Norman.