Agreed.

---Agreed

Thank you, Madam Chair. I, too, would like to begin my comments looking at the comment that we will eliminate our deficit situation within two years. I favour trying to eliminate the deficit in a one-year time frame; however, if we cannot do this without making the people who can least afford it suffer too much, then I don't believe that we should.

Also, I think that if we can't do it in such a way that Yellowknife isn't taking the brunt of the cuts, then I think we should take two years to do it, as well. I know that from what I am seeing so far -- of course Yellowknife has the greatest amount of people working for the government, and we are always the favourite target -- that if we cannot do this without Yellowknife being hit unfairly, then I think it should be done in two years, as well.

I believe the block funding and empowering the communities is a very good strategy. The community people have been saying for years that they want to take over programs and have the ability to focus on certain areas that they wish, and that they are being restricted in funding and the rest of that, so I completely agree with this and I think that we should find ways of implementing this as quickly as possible.

I believe the consolidation of the three economic areas into a one-window shopping area for resource development and economic activity is very good, as well. For years, fishermen have been complaining that more fish have been thrown back into Great Slave Lake than the Freshwater Fish Marketing Corporation is actually sending out for sale. This is depleting our resources. Hopefully, consolidating these three departments into one will help us to get away from that and to use that fish that is now being wasted. I know people have talked about cat food, dog food, fertilizer and all those types of things. Certainly, if we can package those things with the fish that is now being thrown back, that would certainly improve matters.

With the refocusing of Intergovernmental and Aboriginal Affairs within the Executive department, I hope we are not sending the wrong message to the aboriginal people. I hope that it's not just going to be swallowed up and disappear, because there are definitely things that can be done that have not been done before. I hope we take this opportunity to refocus the energies of the people within those areas so that we get things done with the aboriginal people. The majority of the people in the Northwest Territories are aboriginal, and aboriginal and treaty rights have been protected under the constitution for over 10 years, yet there has been very little done to define those rights. It's probably time that we as a government tried to define those rights; at least as far as we understand them and how those rights can be practised in the territories.

The amalgamation of the Personnel Secretariat into the Department of Executive. Here again I have a concern that we have to ensure that affirmative action and other policies are still maintained. We have to have a watchdog out there. Without that, nepotism, favouritism or whatever "ism" you like can happen. I know that it's already happening that friends are being hired. Many people have complained to me that they see things happening every day, such as job descriptions being written to favour someone's resume and then that person just steps into the job. Hopefully, while reorganizing the Personnel Secretariat into the Executive we will find ways of ensuring that the old practices are done away with. I am sure that this is the intent, and I look forward to seeing some exciting results through there. In particular, women and aboriginal people have very low numbers in management. Hopefully, this will help us to increase those numbers.

Also in the area of partners operating health and education boards and asking people to eliminate duplication and save money by entering into new arrangements, we have received a letter from the Canadian Mental Health Association which is very timely in this area. They are proposing that a community health centre model be implemented where there would basically be a one-stop shopping centre in the mental health area as far as research and those types of things, and I think this is a very good idea that fits well into our new direction. Hopefully, we will be able to follow up in this area.

The Premier indicated that we have a young, capable and willing population which can benefit from opportunities we create. This is true; we do have a very young population, but we have to ensure that this young population is trained, and we have to take advantage of the jobs. We also have to ensure that we are in a position for them to get jobs from development that occurs on our lands in the Territories. People who are born here, northern aboriginal people and other people who are born here, should have a priority on all jobs. We have to find a way to ensure that this priority is implemented.

The northern accord is one way that this can happen. The Premier spoke of northern control over northern resources. I am sure that he's talking about the northern accord. Here again is a method of ensuring that our workers actually benefit from the development that occurs on the lands in the Northwest Territories. We have to start working on a northern accord as soon as possible. I know that monetarily we probably can't benefit for a couple of years, so it's certainly not going to help us in the 1996-97 fiscal year. However, it can help us in the future, and it can help us to try to ensure that our people get jobs. So we need to start working on this as soon as possible. I certainly agree with the Premier's message that we must be prepared to deal with change and change won't manage us, we will manage it. Thank you.

Thank you, Madam Chair. In general, I agreed with the overall comments that were made by the Premier, with two exceptions. Regarding the time frame to deal with the deficit, I, for one, would like to see the Premier and this government add another year to the equations for us trying to deal with the problem. I would say it would be only fair that we would look at between two and three years.

The second point I would like to make is regarding the Premier's comments on the proposed establishment of an economic advisory committee. My question to the Premier on this is, is he going to allow the ordinary MLAs to have some input into the selection process. Thank you, Madam Chair.

I would like to start off with comments that I have made numerous times at Caucus meetings when it was realized that there would be a requirement for cuts. I reiterated a number of times that I would support cuts as long as they were done fairly. That commitment still stands. I think from initial documents that I have received, at first glance, it appears that it is not very fair looking; certainly not for the community that I represent. So I would be looking for a lot more balanced approach and fairness, because the people of the Northwest Territories will accept the cuts that are coming as long as they are seen to be fair and they are fair. So from the initial documents I've seen, I believe there is still quite a bit of work to be done in that regard.

On comments with regard to balancing the budget, I certainly would be in favour of balancing the budget in the first year. I would welcome any comments from any individuals who can show me how I can spend more money than I take in. I would suggest that this government should not be conducting business in any other fashion. Don't live beyond your means. I think we have seen the negativeness of those particular attitudes over the last few years and it has contributed greatly to the situation we find ourselves in today.

Overall, I was pleased with the Premier's statement. Some comments I will make regard specifics that the Premier had mentioned. They have been referred to earlier and I would like to add a different sort of twist to them. The Premier has suggested; make no mistake, we will have to be aggressive with mining companies so that northern workers replace southern workers. I would encourage the Premier to be encouraging the peoples of the North to get out and take those jobs and not be demanding that the companies do everything to create them. I believe there's an obligation for people who require a job to get out and more encouragement should be put to people to take the jobs which are rightfully theirs. They're living in this Territory. So rather than hammering the investors who come to the Territories, let's us do our part. We need to train a workforce to make people employable by companies.

With regard to the comment about the independent advisors, I had not thought of it but I certainly support the idea that many times a profit is not recognized in its own land. I would suggest looking around the House. There may be sufficient input that you may want to talk to who can produce a northern advisory built and made in the North.

I think something that can go a long way to attracting jobs, as you've talked about, is a Territory -- as in our case -- with a balanced budget, balanced books and also keep taxes at reasonable levels to encourage developers to come. We will be able to benefit down the road from a northern accord, the taxes that those jobs generate and the business spin-offs that will be created from it.

I see the exercise that we're presently in as a great opportunity for the Territories. In the past number of years, we have had some bad habits that have to be corrected. We've had the bad habit of spending more than we have taken in a lot of times. I welcome the opportunity to get a little more creative. Hopefully we can rid of some of those bad habits, get our house in order, be in excellent shape to encourage the investment and also to take advantage of being creative when we are spending. Thank you, Madam Chair.

Thank you, Madam Chair. The planning session, Madam Chair, that we have had for the last two months, I think, was worth it. There were many people across the Territories very anxious to know what was happening. The business plan in this case has been drafted by all 24 MLAs. I think we should congratulate ourselves that we have done a good job. I basically like the Premier's statement on behalf of this government. I know there is apprehension among the public, among the politicians. I wonder at times why we are so apprehensive when, in fact, we are living in a wealthy land in terms of renewable and non-renewable resources. We have a high potential for tourism; in fact, we are living in the last frontier and people like to come to this country, to the NWT, to see the culture, the wildlife, and to take photographs, et cetera.

Madam Chair, in the recent past, there was an article in the paper talking about caribou clothing. In fact, according to the scientific findings, caribou skin was far more practical than the conventional factory-made clothing. This finding gave us the great opportunity to enhance the use of caribou skin clothing.

I have stated earlier that we are living in a wealthy land; we've merely scraped the surface of the potential that we have within the land. How can we use the full potential of renewable and non-renewable resources? What is the stumbling block in this case? I think, unless we can speed up the land claims process within the jurisdiction, Madam Chair, only then can we realize the use of non-renewable and renewable resources. The claimants in the Eastern and Western Arctic are willing to work together and they want development. Before that can be realized, they want to settle the land claims. That's where it's at.

I speak not as a person from the Nunavut area, I speak as a public person. Madam Chair, most of the people in the Northwest Territories, the majority, rely on the fur industry. During the last 30 years, the sale of furs has declined. This government has tried to talk to people in Ottawa and in other countries but I don't believe that we have used our full potential to try and promote and enhance the trapping industry.

Madam Chair, we have people in the communities across the Territories who depend mainly upon carving. Carving, being a by-product of wildlife, has been rejected by some of the countries. Again, in this area we have done very little to promote our industry within the jurisdiction. In terms of creating jobs for the communities, the Premier, who was the Minister of Public Works and Services, has come a long way in terms of using the community manpower, made in the Territories, made in the communities, but I think we have not used the full potential of the local labour force that is available in every community.

We are still seeing in my area that when there are government projects in the communities, we still see contractors coming from outside of the Territories. I believe if there is a project taking place in Yellowknife, Yellowknife should have the first crack at it. If there is a community project in Iqaluit, Pelly Bay and other communities across the Territories, it should be likewise. People in the communities should be awarded contracts because when you award a contract to a local business, the community people will get the jobs and many people only depend on seasonal work. The only time people are able to afford to buy hunting equipment is when they get the opportunity to work during the summer, get their hunting equipment and supplement their income by hunting and trapping. Those are the areas we should really concentrate on because of the bad financial situation we are faced with.

Madam Chair, with regard to trying to balance the budget within two years, I believe we should have a mid-term review of the financial situation of this government. I don't think we should be committed to balance the budget in one or two years. We should leave that open, have a mid-term review of the financial situation and take it from there.

Madam Chair, within the last two months, people have asked me what is happening with this. Are you still planning? Yes, we have plans for two months. Now we have a business plan in place and we can take it from there. We can make that plan work so when the time comes for division, two territories in this jurisdiction, we will be able to realize that, even through difficult times. I have every confidence, Madam Chair, with the Cabinet Ministers, the Premier, the politicians and the people of the Territories that we'll be able to pull through. We will be able to say we stood by the business plan, we made it and we will be able to reminisce that we were the great ones. Thank you.

Thank you, Madam Chair. I have listened to all the comments the Members had to make. I did

pick up some questions through their opening comments. I would like to respond to some of those questions.

I realize that some Members are saying we should try to eliminate the deficit we do have within one year. Some other Members are saying we should look at three years. Other Members are saying we shouldn't set any time at all and we should review it. We have taken direction and listened to the concerns Members have. Looking at the deficit and the problems we face we should fully understand that if we try to eliminate the deficit too quickly, we could create too much hardship on those people who desperately depend on social programs from this government. We have to take that into consideration. There are no hard numbers decided upon yet, but we do have general agreement to try to eliminate the majority of that deficit within the first year.

We also recognize that it is going to take longer. It will take time to put things into place and make changes. We have to give people time to adapt. That is the reason, through my Sessional Statement, I said two years was the majority.

We are also going to look at all avenues of government and we are going to try to do it in a fair manner and a compassionate manner. I would just like to assure the Members who raised the concern that it would be done on the backs of the capital and regional centres; that isn't so. It will be spread out. You also have to realize where the majority of dollars are being spent. We have to look at that in a fair and compassionate way, which we will, and make the adjustments accordingly. I fully agree that whatever we do, we not only look at direct but indirect spending of our dollars and that includes boards and agencies, housing authorities, et cetera.

Regarding the amalgamation of Renewable Resources, EM&PR and ED&T, I believe that is the proper choice to make. By that amalgamation, we will be able to have a more focused approach on resource development as well as economic development. That is the right move to make. We have directed the staff to begin to put together the plans to accomplish that.

The move of occupational health and safety to WCB isn't going to happen overnight, but we are building the plans to do that. A lot of these things need planning and it will take time. There will be concerns no matter what you do in this government, but if we are going to change, there will be problems. With every problem, there are opportunities and solutions as well. We have to take those into consideration. We will develop the business plans to accomplish this in an orderly manner that respects everyone's integrity in this amalgamation. We will not compromise anyone. I understand there will be problems specific to this amalgamation, but it has potential to save a lot of dollars and it is also my understanding that 10 or 11 other jurisdictions in Canada do the same thing. We just have to make sure that the problems that pop up have solutions and we move ahead.

Some Members raised some concerns about my intent to move quickly about establishing an independent panel on the economy. I fully realize that myself as a Member of my Assembly, my background is business and there are many people in this House who have business experience. I also know that there are many business people out there who have a lot to offer the Northwest Territories, and I'm not talking about consultants, and I'm not talking about paying anybody any money. What I'm talking about is independent advisors, independent business person advisors. I don't plan on paying anyone any amount of money to come and give us independent advice. We all have people we draw on, whether it's a respected elder, a community member, or a business person, for advice from time to time. I'm basically being right up front with people here saying that I would like advice on who you think are good-quality business people in the Northwest Territories that can offer us advice from time to time, and are willing to do that for the good of the Northwest Territories. People that live here, that retire here, and will be buried here, those are the people who are interested in the future of the Northwest Territories and I think we have to have the opportunity to hear from them as well. I would welcome Members' advice on that issue, as well.

As far as our protocol agreements with aboriginal governments, the First Nations and this government, that's basically what it is. We're going to attempt to enter into protocol agreements with them as well as all the bands and Metis locals at the community level. I think that's a step in the right direction. That's a step towards the future and the future means a partnership with aboriginal people and that we'll have a good working relationship with them. So far, the meetings we've had with them, I've been very impressed on their desire to work with us and ours to work with them. I believe that signing agreements with them, recognizing them, will go a long way in helping the North move in the right direction.

Why did the northern accord not succeed the last time? Because we didn't have good working relationships with aboriginal groups. It's as simple as that. Why do I think it's going to succeed this time? Because we will have good working relationships with aboriginal groups and we will strive to make sure that those relationships are built on trust and clear, open dialogue.

Block funding for the communities. I was thinking back, I mentioned in this speech that eight years ago, when I ran for this Assembly, I had very clear intentions: to change government, change the way it operates. I'm sure that every Member of this Assembly ran basically on those fundamental principles: we're here to make change. Our voters didn't send us here to keep the status quo, they sent us here to make sure government changes and government becomes more responsive to the people it's to serve. Regardless of whether we have a $150 million deficit or not, I think block funding is the only way to go. That's the way to go into the future, it's the way of block funding the communities and empowering the communities so they make the decisions and set the priorities on how they would like to see their dollars spent. Ultimately, that's what we're all here for; we're here, we manage, we manage the dollars on behalf of our communities. People have been saying that for 20 years and it's about time we moved ahead and did it.

As far as the refocusing of Intergovernmental and Aboriginal Affairs into the Executive, I'm convinced that by doing this we will accomplish a higher degree of attention on aboriginal issues, First Nation issues, treaty rights, and I think that's a very important part of where we're going to go in the future. If we are to move ahead in the future with any amount of credibility or any amount of good faith amongst our aboriginal partners, we have to make sure that we give the right priorities to the issues that are at hand.

As far as rolling in Personnel into the Executive, that, too, is going to take some time and it cannot happen completely overnight. Once again, however, I believe, that we have all said and we have all heard that affirmative action does not work. We're still finding things that are happening to stop that. We have to ensure that people who are capable and willing to work and are from the Northwest Territories, get those jobs. By making managers, and I'll use myself as an example, as the Minister responsible for Economic Development: If I have 10 per cent aboriginal employment and my budget comes up, I can pass the buck to Personnel; Personnel can pass the buck back to me. We have to make managers manage, pay them accordingly, and hold them responsible. But we do need the watch-dog portion of Personnel to make sure that the things are happening. We have to make sure that we empower those managers and make them accountable so that if you don't see an increase in northern and affirmative action, then you hold them accountable.

Agreed.

---Agreed

Thank you, Madam Chair. We should explore the idea, through the health boards, of the one-stop shopping for mental health, as well, brought up by Mr. Erasmus. That could be a money-saving exercise. Any advice we can get on how to save dollars is greatly appreciated.

I fully understand and will pay the most attention to our young people. Many people have brought it up that we not only have to be more aggressive with the mining companies, but by doing that, what we also mean is that we have to have a properly trained workforce for them to employ. Mr. Henry, you brought that issue up and that's a good issue because what we have to do is train our young people in partnership with the mining companies so that they end up with good employees in the end who are capable of doing the job.

I'm very supportive and a very strong advocate of northern control over northern resources. We have talked to the aboriginal groups and, as I mentioned earlier, we are going to proceed on that issue. We're going to proceed on it in partnership with our aboriginal partners to try our best to come to agreement so that when we go to deal with the federal government, we go with a united front. We'll go there to bring the control of northern resources home to the North where it belongs.

I've already addressed the time frame to deal with the $150 million deficit. Mr. O'Brien also brought up the issue of will Members be involved on this committee for rejuvenating the economy. As I previously mentioned, I will seek your advice; you know people who I don't know and other Members don't know but what we're looking for are very strong committed independent businessmen in the North who would like to volunteer their services to help this government through some hard times.

I've addressed the issue of fair cuts to Yellowknife. Like I said earlier, we have the fundamental belief that we have to balance the budget but we do not do it on the backs of only Yellowknife. We talked to our communities already and we've told our communities that you can expect to feel a portion of the reductions in this government. Let me say again that all sectors of the government will be touched by reductions of some sort once we work through that. So, with that, it will be done fairly and compassionately.

As far as the downsizing of the Housing Corporation, what we mean when we mention downsizing is so it becomes more in the community development mode; that's exactly what we mean. I am not talking about getting rid of the Housing Corporation totally. Because you have CMHC funding, you have to have a corporation, you have to have something to funnel that money through, but you also have to have less government, so we have to look at the role they play, the function they produce and whether or not it should continue the way it is. The communities are saying very clearly that they have the ability to run their own affairs and we have to work with them to develop their abilities so that they can make their own decisions at the community level, and I see the Housing Corporation playing a key part in that for the simple reason that they have presence in every community, houses in every community and housing is one of the highest priorities of this government because we have a great housing shortage in the North. So I can see that by block funding or doing community empowerment with the Housing Corporation, that would help the communities greatly in solving their own problems.

We also have to look very seriously at the whole issue of renewable resources and how the development of the renewable resource economy can help our people and how it can put jobs in the communities. So I completely agree with Mr. Ningark when he says that we have to look at it seriously and try to help the communities develop.

So that basically covers off pretty well all the points that I believe Members have raised. I will also read Hansard tomorrow to find out if I missed anything. I always appreciate Members' advice, and we have to work on this together. We have a great opportunity to change the way we do business. We have a great opportunity to make a government that is more in tune with what the people of the Northwest Territories would like to do, and that is control their own futures at the community level. With that, Madam Chair, I would like to thank you. Mahsi cho.

Thank you, Madam Chair. I have a specific question, Mr. Premier, concerning the Northwest Territories parks system and the privatization as mentioned in the sessional statement. What are the time lines that we are looking at here, and what does that specifically entail? There is an NWT park in my riding and several people working for it. I have some concerns with the privatization that were raised by my constituents after the sessional speech yesterday.

I would also like to add my voice to Mr. Erasmus's with regard to the situation with Personnel amalgamation. I think it is a serious concern, as is the amalgamation of Finance.

Thank you, Madam Chair. At the present time, we do not have the time lines in place for petroleum products division, property management, computer system services, community resupply operations and the NWT parks system privatization initiatives. We will be going back to the committees on February 22nd, and by that time we should have the time lines in place of how and when that should happen.

Thank you, Madam Chair. I know through the previous privatization initiatives of this government that we always took into account employees and how they could be involved. I will make a commitment to the Member today that any privatization operation that we do, as we move ahead with it, we will involve the employees so that they fully understand what is happening and if they can be involved in working in the private sector at the end, then we will try our best to accomplish that.

We also have to take into consideration aboriginal groups. For example, the petroleum products division services certain areas, so we have to take into consideration aboriginal groups in that area, as well.

Thank you, Madam Chair. On the refocusing of IAA, we are looking at enhancing Intergovernmental and Aboriginal Affairs by bringing it into the Executive and refocusing it so that it is there to assist aboriginal groups in the Northwest Territories. It is also very important that we have that department's advice on the things that this government does and how it affects the aboriginal people. So it will be refocused and integrated more within the Executive. The possible time line on that is that we should have business plans developed and brought back to the Cabinet by this month. Members will then have an opportunity to look at it to see whether they agree to it or not.

Through the privatization of petroleum products, yes, we are looking at complete ownership of tank farms and the delivery systems and fuel in there as well. I know an issue that we have to address is fuel and liability. I know that is going to be one of the issues of it, so we will have to address that, as well. Thank you.

Thank you, Madam Chair. We're talking about partnerships within the jurisdiction of the NWT, but partnerships with other jurisdictions are equally important. Having a dialogue with a federal counterpart is one of the most important items that we should be looking at. By that I mean, do the honourable Premier of this government and the honourable Minister of Finance have any plans to meet with the federal Minister of Finance and the Prime Minister or other Premiers of the jurisdictions within the country in the near future? Are any meetings going to be attended by the representatives of the governments of the other jurisdictions in terms of talking about the economy of the country, et cetera?

Thank you, Madam Chair. I do have a meeting with the Premier of Alberta, Ralph Klein, next week. We are trying to find the time to meet with the Premier of Saskatchewan, Mr. Romanow, as well. We have a meeting scheduled for the beginning of June, the Western Premiers' meeting, as well. We do have agreements with Ron Irwin, the Minister of Indian Affairs, to meet with him four times a year, and any time items pop-up or issues need to be discussed, he's just a phone call away. I believe Mr. Todd has already developed a working relationship with the federal Minister of Finance. Thank you.

Thank you, Madam Chair. In recent years, there have been some outstanding financial disputes with the federal government with regard to health billings and also in the area of having extra manpower coming in from other jurisdictions during a dispute at a certain mine in Yellowknife. Are there any accounts receivables that haven't been collected from the federal government? Thank you.

Thank you, Madam Chair. Mr. Ningark, I'm not completely sure if the health billings dispute and the RCMP billings dispute are completely finished. I know there was a payment received by the previous government, an out-of-court payment. What I will do is request the Minister of Finance and the Minister of Justice to get you a briefing note on both issues. Thank you.

Thank you, Madam Chair. With all the plans to amalgamate -- and I know that we've just recently gone through amalgamation of departments -- people get used to going to certain places for certain things and it leads to mass confusion. Now again, we're going to amalgamate several departments. Say someone, Ed Picco, came from Hard Luck Bay and last time he went some place to get something and now he's going to have to go to another place. What kind of plans do we have to try and avoid this type of confusion? Thank you.

Thank you, Madam Chair. It will mean fewer departments in the end. It will mean that departments will be refocused so they're more specific; for example, EM&PR and ED&T so that they are results-oriented in resource management and economic development. I don't see, at this time, that that would be reduction in Cabinet Ministers. I know that Cabinet Members, like the ordinary Members of this Assembly, are working very long hours now to keep up with what they have. I don't see that as being a reduction in the very immediate future. Thank you.

Agreed.

---Applause

The House will come back to order. We're on item 20, report of Committee of the Whole. Mrs. Groenewegen.