This is page numbers 13 - 35 of the Hansard for the 13th Assembly, 3rd Session. The original version can be accessed on the Legislative Assembly's website or by contacting the Legislative Assembly Library. The word of the day was employees.

Topics

Birthday Wishes To Linda Henry
Revert To Item 3: Members' Statements

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Seamus Henry Yellowknife South

Mr. Speaker, it isn't a statement, but I believe Mr. Erasmus made a statement earlier in this House today.

--- Laughter

Birthday Wishes To Linda Henry
Revert To Item 3: Members' Statements

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The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Just to remind Members, all Members are allowed one statement per day. I asked the Members who did make statements to be honest enough to say they did make statements and not to make another statement. Item 3, Members' statements. Item 11, reports of standing and special committees. Item 12, reports of committees on the review of bills. Item 13, tabling of documents. Mr. Picco.

Item 13: Tabling Of Documents
Item 13: Tabling Of Documents

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Edward Picco Iqaluit

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I would like to table Tabled Document 5-13(3), the response by the Honourable Charles Dent, Minister of Education, to Petition No. 1-13(2), tabled by me on February 14, 1996 concerning the relocation of programs from Nunavut Campus. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Item 13: Tabling Of Documents
Item 13: Tabling Of Documents

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The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Thank you. Item 13, tabling of documents. Mr. Barnabas.

Item 13: Tabling Of Documents
Item 13: Tabling Of Documents

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Levi Barnabas High Arctic

Mr. Speaker, I would like to table Tabled Document 6-13(3), a letter written by Berry Tibbitt on March 20, 1996. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Item 13: Tabling Of Documents
Item 13: Tabling Of Documents

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The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Thank you. Item 13, tabling of documents. Item 14, notices of motion. Item 15, notices of motions for first reading of bills. Item 16, motions. Item 17, first reading of bills. Item 17, second reading of bills. Item 19, consideration in Committee of the Whole of bills and other matters: Tabled Document 1-13(3), Report of the Commission on MLA Compensation, with Mr. Ningark in the chair.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. I would like to call the committee to order. Good afternoon, colleagues. We are dealing with Tabled Document 1-13(3), Report of the Commission on MLA Compensation. I would like to recognize the Premier to make an opening statement. Mr. Premier.

Tabled Document 1-13(3): Report Of The Commission On MLA Compensation
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair John Ningark

Premier's Opening Remarks

Tabled Document 1-13(3): Report Of The Commission On MLA Compensation
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Don Morin Tu Nedhe

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. A little more than two weeks ago, we received the report of the Commission on MLA Compensation. The more than 40 recommendations set out in that report have provided a valuable foundation for addressing the need for changes in the existing compensation package available to MLAs and to Members of Cabinet, as well.

When we first began this difficult task of coming to terms with the challenges of our fiscal situation, we agreed that Members of this Legislative Assembly would demonstrate leadership in making changes that would allow us to live within our means. I believe, as do my colleagues, that it is important for us to indicate where we are at in our response to that report. My expectation is that before the end of this sitting of the Assembly, we will have completed the process of considering and implementing many of the changes recommended by the commission.

In addition, we will be implementing a substantially redesigned pension package which will yield responsible cost savings and reductions to overall benefits. Some constituencies, some people have said that compensation packages received by Members of this Assembly are too great. In some areas, we agree so we will address that over the next few days. I believe that these are important and necessary to demonstrate in clear terms our collective commitment to making difficult decisions that affect all of us. When I say that, Mr. Chairman, these are very difficult times for us as elected leaders in this Legislative Assembly. When it comes to reductions in wages and benefits to our employees who are, in a lot of cases, our good friends, our relatives, we had better be able to take those reductions ourselves and make those hard decisions on how it affects our pocketbook, as well.

One thing that I've told many, many southern politicians when I travelled in the South as the Minister of Housing and the Department of Public Works is that one advantage a southern politician has over a Northwest Territories politician is that their constituencies are so large they know no one in it. We know everyone in our constituency; basically every last living soul I know in my constituency. So when things happen in our constituencies, it affects us as well. When people are having trouble in our constituencies, it affects us as MLAs.

With that, I would just like to congratulate the commission on a job well done and we look forward to reviewing that report. Before next Friday, before this House is scheduled to close, we will have either adopted the majority of those recommendations or made recommendations to change what we will get as elected Members of this Assembly. Let me assure everybody that it will be a lot less than you are getting today. Thank you.

---Applause

Tabled Document 1-13(3): Report Of The Commission On MLA Compensation
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Some honourable Members are indicating that they want a break so we'll take a 15-minute break. Thank you.

--- SHORT RECESS

Tabled Document 1-13(3): Report Of The Commission On MLA Compensation
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. I would like to call the committee back to order. The Premier has made his opening remarks. The floor is open for general comments from the membership. Michael Miltenberger.

General Comments

Tabled Document 1-13(3): Report Of The Commission On MLA Compensation
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Michael Miltenberger

Michael Miltenberger Thebacha

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I would initially like to indicate my support for the Premier's comments. I think they demonstrate the leadership role we have been talking about in this House since we were first elected. I agree fully as well that we do need a change to the compensation package for MLAs, including the pensions. To me, the single biggest issue is the pension fund. I support the change recommended in this commission's report. I also recommend the changes that will simplify the system that we now have. It will make it more transparent and easier to understand.

By my very basic math, we spend, including our pensions, $3.3 million approximately every year. So if we can restructure the pension plan, as has been recommended, where we acknowledge the responsibility to the Members who have paid into the current program and come up with a transition plan to accommodate Members who are part-way through their term and don't have six years, there is almost $1 million projected savings, which I think is very significant.

The fundamental message is we have to be showing the people that we are going to take a cut equal to or greater than what we are asking all our employees and non

government people to take that are funded by the government.

With those basic comments, Mr. Chairman, I agree with the need for change and I agree that we have to deal with this issue by March before we leave here next week, so we can get past this issue, send the message that has to be sent, and start dealing with the other issues before us. We don't want to spend an overly long period of time on this issue. Thank you.

Tabled Document 1-13(3): Report Of The Commission On MLA Compensation
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. For the record, I would like to indicate that we are dealing with Tabled Document 1-13(3), Report of the Commission on MLA Compensation. General comments from the floor? Mrs. Groenewegen.

Tabled Document 1-13(3): Report Of The Commission On MLA Compensation
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

March 20th, 1996

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Jane Groenewegen

Jane Groenewegen Hay River

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. As I had indicated during the election campaign and on several occasions subsequent to that, I do think that the pension plan, as it existed, was too lucrative and that MLAs should not expect a pension any different than what the Hay Plan people in the government service receive. I support that part of the recommendations. Also, I concur with Mr. Morin and Mr. Miltenberger that MLAs should be prepared to lead by example and to take a reduction in pay equal to, if not greater than, the public service. It remains to be seen what the public service will negotiate, but I think that we, without even knowing how that is going to turn out, need to clearly state that we are prepared to adjust our incomes to the fiscal times we are in. I will have further comments when we review the report, recommendation by recommendation. Thank you.

Tabled Document 1-13(3): Report Of The Commission On MLA Compensation
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. General comments. Mr. Krutko.

Tabled Document 1-13(3): Report Of The Commission On MLA Compensation
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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David Krutko

David Krutko Mackenzie Delta

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. My comment is with regard to the mandate of the commission. I feel they might have overextended their mandate, especially in areas such as constituency funding to run our offices and travel to our communities, especially in my riding where I represent three communities. They have cut our O and M budget by about $5,000. 1 think for us to have access to the people we represent and to be able to meet with our constituents as often as we can, we have to have the available resources to do that. I believe there also has to be adequate funds for us to carry out our responsibilities to our constituents.

I have no problems with regard to reviewing the salaries, indemnities, allowances and benefits, but I think that they may have overextended their mandate to encompass reviewing the operations of our offices and how we consult with our constituents. That is the area I have a concern with. We have to keep in mind that we have to have that communication open between ourselves and the communities that we represent.

One of the main election issues in my riding was having access to the Member. We have to keep that in mind when we do this review. We have to make sure there are adequate resources to carry out our responsibilities to the people we represent. Thank you.

Tabled Document 1-13(3): Report Of The Commission On MLA Compensation
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. General comments. Do we have further general comments on Tabled Document 1-13(3)? Mr. Henry.

Tabled Document 1-13(3): Report Of The Commission On MLA Compensation
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Seamus Henry Yellowknife South

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I will be echoing the remarks of some of the MLAs who have gone before me, in particular Jane, who suggested that no more would be expected by her in the pension plan than Hay Plan employees. I concur with that. I feel that that is reasonable with regard to pensions.

Tabled Document 1-13(3): Report Of The Commission On MLA Compensation
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. General comments. Mr. Picco.

Tabled Document 1-13(3): Report Of The Commission On MLA Compensation
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Edward Picco Iqaluit

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, as I have said publicly, the MLA commission has done a great deal of work and I am prepared to adopt many of the recommendations. I do have some concerns with the constituency allowances made, as Mr. Krutko has mentioned. Generally, I look forward to further review of the commission's work. I do have some concerns with the pension. I also agree with Mr. Henry and Mrs. Groenewegen that I wouldn't expect to have anything greater or less than what the current Hay Plan is. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Tabled Document 1-13(3): Report Of The Commission On MLA Compensation
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair John Ningark

Thank you, Mr. Picco. General comments. Do we have further general comments? Mr. Erasmus.

Tabled Document 1-13(3): Report Of The Commission On MLA Compensation
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Roy Erasmus Yellowknife North

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I also see a need to have this compensation scheme dealt with by the end of this session. We have indicated to the public and to the public service that we will lead by example. I firmly believe that we have to provide a savings to this government that is equal to and most likely greater than that which we are asking our employees to provide.

Having said that, I would like to comment on an article in the Yellowknifer in which I was not necessarily misquoted but my words were taken a bit out of context. It was said in the article that I indicated that if people were only paid $71,000 a year, that they would not attend committee meetings. I think it doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out that if you're going to get $200 a day deducted for missing a committee meeting, you're going to attend committee meetings. It's obvious I didn't say that. What I did say was that there's no recognition for people who serve on two standing committees. All ordinary Members are required to sit on one standing committee; however, there are many people who serve on two committees and maybe some even on three committees. Having everybody paid at a rate of $71,000 a year does not recognize that fact. Anybody who

receives extra responsibility, whether you're a foreman, a director, a regional director or a Minister, gets paid extra when they get extra responsibilities. All I was indicating is that there should be no difference here.

The article also said that it was possible that MLAs wouldn't buy raffle tickets anymore. What I really indicated is that an MLA's job doesn't quit at 5:00 p.m. We have a huge invasion on our privacy and people expect us to be on call seven days a week, 24-hours a day, for 365 days a year. Every time somebody has some raffle tickets to sell, they come to us. If there's a bowl-a-thon, they come to us. If there's some kind of a function happening, it doesn't matter if it's at 10:00 p.m. at night or if it's on Saturday or Sunday, they ask us to come and speak or to be present at those functions. I feel that people do not understand an MLA's job; most people see us sit in the House for a couple of hours a day for two or three weeks in a month but that is not all we do and that is basically the easiest thing that we do. The main part of the job is answering constituents' questions and trying to help them out to solve their problems that they come to us with. I know from MLAs that have retired, whether of their own volition or otherwise, that MLAs make enemies and that it is very difficult to be employed once you leave here.

For those reasons and many others, I believe that MLAs should be compensated adequately. At the same time, I believe that the current pension scheme is too lucrative and that it has to be changed. I also believe, and I stated this to the commission when I made my presentation to them, that the compensation scheme has to be made more simple and that there should be some way that we receive the same amount every two weeks just like any other employee of the territorial government. That way you know what you're going to get and you know how much to spend, how to get loans so that you can make your payments and the rest of that. The way it is now, you never know how much you're getting from one week to the next or from one month to the next. Thank you.

Tabled Document 1-13(3): Report Of The Commission On MLA Compensation
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair John Ningark

Thank you, Mr. Erasmus. Mr. Enuaraq.

Tabled Document 1-13(3): Report Of The Commission On MLA Compensation
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Tommy Enuaraq Baffin Central

(Translation) Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, 1, too, would like to make a comment concerning the MLA pensions. I agree that we should see a reduction in the compensation package. I agree that this is what the people want. Mr. Chairman, I want to say that in December 1995, my constituents in Pangnirtung, Broughton Island, and Clyde River told me that the announcements that I had made were very adequate. People asked if I'd be able to make more newsletters in the future and I agreed to that. What I didn't agree with, however, were the recommendations made by the commission which included our working budget having to be reduced. My constituency budget would be cut by $6,000 and I was not in favour of that because my communities from Baffin Central are places that I have to visit.

Within the recommendations, I also spotted a portion that included a provision for newsletter spending money being limited to $1,000. This amount of money, I find, would be too small to produce a newsletter if it remains at the value of $1,000. 1 disagree with this dollar amount because of the people in my riding; I have to keep them informed of the activities and the things that are happening through our newsletter. I want to let them know about the things that I'm working on here in Yellowknife as I am the representative of those people.

I found this to be painful. The commission reviewed our constituency budget without even considering the population in each riding. I want it made very clear that even if we do see a reduction in our pensions or Our compensation, I don't mind going along with that, but I disagree with our constituency budgets being reduced if it will affect our working abilities in representing our people. I didn't agree with that at all, Mr. Chairman.

Tabled Document 1-13(3): Report Of The Commission On MLA Compensation
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair John Ningark

Qujannamiik, Mr. Enuaraq. General comments. Mr. Steen.