Mr. Chairman, on the training front, you have two areas to work on: one, on the staff level, managers and tenant relations; and, the other is on the board level. The communities have to deal with the allocations of houses and problem tenants and collection of arrears. I don't have a snapshot I could describe to you, but perhaps I could ask the president to comment on it.

Thank you. Mr. Handley.

Mr. Chairman, I think in terms of the record of our local housing organizations, it is probably about the same as it is on other community boards. We have an ongoing need for training and monitoring what is happening. Our district people help them. We do have some cases where fiscal management isn't as good as we would like. We have generally a very competent corps of managers for the housing organizations, but as in any small organization, there is that training need.

We are now just going to start another round of discussions with the LHOs to get their perception of what their needs are for training, particularly as we give them more and more responsibility on things like staff housing and partnership agreements and so on. We will have more feedback within a matter of months following that survey.

Mr. Enuaraq.

(Translation) Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I hope the Members could understand what I am trying to get at. I saw differences in the housing association where elders aren't paying for rent anymore. Some of the elders who are home owners also have to pay for fuel, even though they are elders. The elders who are using public housing aren't supposed to pay for that. I am not going against the elders, but it seems they are being dealt with differently in different situations. I would like a response to this. Thank you.

(Translation) Thank you. Mr. Minister.

(Translation) Mr. Chairman, with regard to this discussion, we are looking into this and the elders are getting a fuel subsidy. They would have to pay a lower amount, but we are looking into this presently, Mr. Chairman.

(Translation) Thank you. Mr. Evaloarjuk.

(Translation) Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I wonder how people who are employed, someone who isn't getting social assistance, are you looking at how a person would pay for rent if ... Do you look at the salaries or how much money the person would use for food? For instance, if a person was on social assistance, do you look at how much money they would use for food and do you look at where the money they receive would go to? Thank you.

(Translation) Thank you, Mr. Evaloarjuk. Mr. Minister.

(Translation) Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I won't be able to respond to all of his questions, but for people who are using public housing we don't take over 30 per cent of their salary. Looking at the other expenditures, for food, we looked into what a social assistance person would use for food, Mr. Evaloarjuk. There are agreements made or each person that uses public housing has a form to fill out. There are regulations. I will use myself as an example. If I get $100 a month and one person would have $1.25, you can't even get a pop for $1.25. That is all I would get. You can probably get a gum, but that would probably be about all. I don't really agree with this. It isn't enough today. I feel this should be looked at again.

I have worked with social development in the communities in the past. It is very difficult, for example, for people who are getting a salary. Our staff, I have told people who are working in the Housing Corporation to look into this again and also to look at how much money is being spent in different areas. Thank you.

Mr. O'Brien,

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. My question is in relation to social housing. I guess with the exploding population of most of the eastern communities and the loss and lack of CMHC funding and matching dollars, we find ourselves now not able to carry on with the social housing programs we had in the past.

Are there any plans or any discussions taking place now that are looking at this direction as to how we can increase or enhance our social housing situation?

Thank you. Matna. Mr. Minister.

Mr. Chairman, following our meeting in Ottawa last month, Mr. Handley was able to arrange a meeting with CMHC officials on the 22nd of May

Thank you. Mr. O'Brien.

Mr. Chairman, can I ask a further question on another matter?

Go ahead.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I have a general question on what your views are on the housing transfers, how they are going and how much success we are having with them. In some communities, they are having their difficulties and they feel they jumped into it too quick. They weren't prepared. My question or concern is more that we make sure we aren't dumping the programs or dumping this onto the communities as opposed to downloading them. How are the transfers and how are they going?

Thank you. Mr. Minister.

Mr. Chairman, I am not in a position to give an analysis of how it is going day to day on these transfers. The six partnership arrangements that we have with the LHOs now are generally going well. The Members say there are some concerns, but I would like to ask Mr. Handley to give his own assessment.

Thank you, Mr. Minister. Mr. Handley.

Mr. Chairman, the Minister said we now have six partnership agreements in place. Our district directors are at various stages of negotiating further ones. We also are beginning district meetings starting this month. At that time, we will be raising this issue with the LHOs again. I have also assigned one senior person who reports directly to me to monitor what is happening and ensure, if there are any cases where we are moving too fast or we aren't providing the support to the LHOs, that we find a way of remedying that situation. We are aware of it and we want to be careful we don't swamp the LHOs. The six agreements so far are working well. I don't see any major problems.

Thank you. Mr. O'Brien.