Thank you. Mr. Roland. The honourable Mr. Ng.

Thank you, Mr. Ng. Mr. Roland.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Using that, vacancies are an area of concern. We have so many beds. By shutting down the smallest facility, we have only addressed 14 percent of the vacancy rate. You have another 40 percent vacancy rate across the territories. When we look at the cost of those vacancies, what is the cost of the percentages and the vacancies? What is the cost of the vacancy rate in this government?

Thank you, Mr. Roland. Mr. Ng.

Thank you, Mr. Ng. Mr. Roland.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Looking at the figures of the vacancy rate and so on, the Minister says it was taken into consideration. When you take Inuvik's beds out of the picture, 14 percent, you are still looking at a high vacancy rate. This vacancy is over the last number of years. My concern is when division comes, as we are going that way, when everything is settled down in the Western Territory, my concern is where the facilities will be? As I made my member's statement today, there we will be, out of sight, out of mind. We seem far enough north that our concerns are unvoiced or have little attention paid to them. That is the way the community feels and the regions feel. That has been that way for some time, not only with this government. In this day and age, it seems to be impacting even more. Mr. Chairman, with saying that, I would like to make a motion.

Thank you, Mr. Roland. Do you wish to come forward with a motion?

Thank you, Mr. Roland. I do not have a quorum, so I will ring the bell.

I recognize a quorum and I have a motion on the floor. The motion is in order. To the motion, Mr. Roland.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. The community I represent, Inuvik as well as myself, are very concerned with the decision to close Delta House. The questions in the community as well as here when we look at vacancy rates, the effect of closing the smallest facility, although it might be the oldest. The concern there is the representation this government will have in the territory, especially when Division comes upon us. Also, in this area, the program review that is under way for AD, alcohol and drug, is still underway. Changes are being made before the final decision is being made in regards to alcohol and drug funding. We have also heard from treatment centres there were other ways to achieve the savings without shutting down facilities.

Speaking to the executive director from Inuvik, when they were involved in this process of the reform, there was no opportunity to address how they could save this funding amongst themselves. They feel they could have achieved something without closing any facility. I have a concern. We have heard in briefings what we are trying to do in the territories comes close to matching the southern facilities. When it comes to the averages, my concern is; in the north we have a much higher rate of alcohol and drug abuse and all the affects that come with it. I might add, in the Inuvik region we have a very high rate of alcohol and drug abuse.

I think that proves to the amount of inmates we have in the southern correctional facilities. I think a point made during the public meeting in Inuvik was; why was something like the referral process not addressed before the closure of this facility? There are more than enough people going through the system up there that could keep that place full all year round, and we would have to send some out. I think per capita, we probably add to the 46 percent occupancy rate, not only in the 12 percent of filling our facility, but in filling some of the other beds.

When the people in Inuvik asked about the impact of the closure, the financial analysis done on the closure of the facility, the cost of transportation to send people to other places for example, Mr. Chairman, out of Inuvik to get to Yellowknife, is costing over $1,100 return trip. When you are affected by drug and alcohol, and you are having problems, I do not think pre-booking a flight would mean very much. The opportunity to help somebody in that situation is very small.

The question on the cost to maintain this smaller facility versus larger facilities that have a mortgage or have a high cost to them. Although, the Minister said the cost of beds is higher when you look at a bed per year. There is also some concern there. During the meeting, Delta House provided stats of the amount of beds and the occupancy rates that went through the system. They were different from what was being used to explain the reason for the closure of Delta House.

My main concern comes down to the fact that we need to provide for the people who are having problems to better themselves in their lives. I think it is not a proud statistic to raise, but in the region of Inuvik we have a very high rate of alcohol and drug problems. As I said earlier, it shows by the amount of inmates we have in the southern facilities. I would hope my colleagues would support me in this motion. You have heard me speak in this House on many occasions about fairness and equity on how we do things, how we build things, and how we reduce. The community of Inuvik feels we have done our fair share, and this is going well beyond it. From the public meeting, I think the Minister is aware of the concern, the unhappy mood, the angry mood on the reason this decision was made. With that, Mr. Chairman, I leave it for other Members to make comments. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Roland. To the motion, Mr. Miltenberger.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I empathize with my friend and colleague, the Honourable Member from Inuvik. However, the Social Programs Committee's report is on record how they addressed the issue of the alcohol and drug programs. Therefore, I will not oppose the issue, but I will be abstaining. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Miltenberger. To the motion, Mr. Ningark.

To the motion. Is there any more? Mr. Henry.

Thank you, Mr. Henry. To the motion. Are there any other Members that would like to speak to the motion? Mr. Roland, you have the last say.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Being a Member, it is difficult, because being a Member of the Social Programs Committee that looked at some of this information, knowing one of the facilities was being looked at. My concern comes out of the difference this makes when you cut out the facility of Inuvik. As the Minister said, it is 14 percent of the overall beds, when we have a 54 percent vacancy rate. Second to that is the fact that, at the end of the day, after Division comes the western territory. Where will our facilities be? That is another concern of mine and the concern felt in the community. With that I would request a recorded vote.

Thank you, Mr. Roland. We have a request for a recorded vote. When I call, all those in favour would you please stand. All those in favour of the motion?

All those opposed?