Thank you. Oral questions. Mr. Henry.

The Minister of Finance, Mr. Todd.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Let us take the example of the Iqaluit/Inuvik hospitals. Large projects. One is 25 to 30, that is what I am told, somewhere in that range. Let us assume that we get agreement that is the route we are going to take. We are going to do P3 and everything goes the way it is supposed to go. The billing for that project probably will not get completed until after 1999. If this government has to enter into a fiscal arrangement or a long-term lease so that the financier for the project gets the money from an eastern perspective, it will require the commitment of the Interim Commissioner, clearly, who will then have and then take fiscal responsibility. In effect, the dollar costs to this government, because it will not be until after 1999, will be minimal. There may be some front-end capital given to that organization same as Inuvik. Each of these P3 are going to be worked out slightly differently, I suspect. It would be the responsibility of this government if we want to get those two projects up and running to commit to a process and a lease arrangement that ensures that they can get the fiscal long- term debt that is required to fund these. The Inuvik one, for example, will be signed off by this government and a future western government will take responsibility for that and its costing. The eastern one will have to be signed off by this government and by the Interim Commissioner because of the unique characteristics of his role and his Legislative mandate that he has through an Order-in-Council. I suppose, in the end, the long term costs associated with those two projects, and I am just using them as an example, would be, in my opinion, in the hands of the two new future governments. Thank you.

Thank you. Oral questions. Supplementary, Mr. Henry.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I appreciate that straightforward and clear answer from the Minister of Finance. He has talked about two potential projects, one east-west, and anticipating that those projects would not be finished until after April 1, 1999, what would happen to projects that will be completed in this construction season say before December this year? What would happen to the financial responsibilities of those projects east and west? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Todd.

Right. Well, I mean, the fiscal responsibility until such time as I divide the territories would be an obligation of this government and we would have to build that into our expenditure base. I am saying to you that again, I

am just talking on my feet, as they would say. It would be for a short period of time until such time as the new governments move forward and undertake those responsibilities that we have entered into. That is why I say that. Particularly in the eastern Arctic, I suspect that we will be if our protocol agreement gets signed off, as I am optimistic it will. It will provide us the mechanism, the process for the Interim Commissioner to sign off with myself or other Ministers on the long-term obligations beyond April 1, 1999. So, if we had a project like a medical health centre in Arviat that was completed in the fall of 1998, we would have the fiscal responsibility from the fall of 1998 until March 31, 1999. That is how I would see it happening and at the end of the day, I suspect, most of these public/private partnerships really and I said it in my speech, it is a policy that is not a short-term policy. It is a policy that is set in place for future governments, et cetera, and I think that is where most of it will end up. Thank you.

Oral questions. Supplementary, Mr. Henry.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. The Minister, in that hypothetical example of an Arviat health centre, just for greater clarity, is the Minister saying that after April 1, 1999 the responsibility for payments to that hypothetical situation would be the responsibility of the Nunavut Government? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Todd.

Yes, Mr. Speaker. That is the wonderful thing about this project. In fact, I suspect most of them, while they may be under construction and require some kind of government paper to secure the financing, ultimately, the long-term fiscal costs will lie with the western and Nunavut governments. Thank you.

Thank you. Oral questions. Mr. Erasmus.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. My question is for the Minister responsible for Housing. It is in relation to the homeless in the Northwest Territories. Mr. Speaker, earlier I had asked the Minister a question and he referred me to the Minister responsible for Income Support. While I appreciate that, my question is not for that particular Minister. The Minister in charge of housing is in charge of social housing and providing housing for the homeless is certainly social housing in my estimation, perhaps not in the traditional sense. So, what I would like to know is, whether the Minister responsible for Housing would be willing to look at some type of a cost-shared program with the Minister responsible for ECE so that we can provide what the Minister of ECE termed as flop houses. Thank you.

The Minister responsible for NWT Housing Corporation, Mr. Arlooktoo.

Thank you. Mr. Speaker, as I indicated earlier, the Housing Corporation through the housing associations fund homes, what we call social housing units, particularly for those with lower incomes. I think we presently operate over 5,000 units and as I have said over and over again here in the House, there is a requirement for more, and because of the state of our resources, we have had to go the route of financing new private homes in order to flush out, so to speak, those who can operate their own homes, therefore, opening up the ones that they have been using to those that are more needy. That program is still there. The individuals that the Member refers to are certainly eligible for this program, but it does require them to apply to the housing association and so forth and take some responsibility for rent payment and a portion of the utilities. The issue of dealing with the people who are homeless but will not apply for social housing units for one reason or another, which I understand the Member is referring to, the assistance for those people falls under the responsibility of Education, Culture and Employment and the Income Support Program. The Housing Corporation does get involved in some cases, for example, here in Yellowknife for years we were intimately involved with the funding of the housing units for the YWCA and have recently completed a deal with the YWCA and others to make units available here in Yellowknife. As I understand it, the Salvation Army here is underutilized. There are reasons for that, and the Member stated one of them which is a policy that if you smell of liquor or have been drinking, you will not be allowed in the shelter. There are good reasons for that, but that does not negate the fact that you still have a homeless person. So, I will work with the Member, with all Members, with the ECE Minister to try to come up with a solution for this difficult problem.

Oral questions. Mr. Picco.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, just following up on some questions on that P3 which I am in support of. If projects are identified to the capital plan like the two hospitals, I think everyone can see the necessity for those. Mr. Speaker, if we go to $100 million in the private partnerships, that means there will be about $24 million in lease payments paid out by this government. So that has to come out of somewhere. We do not have any new money, so it has to come out of programs or something else. If we go to $100 million this year and we do $100 million next year, where will those lease payments come from? Do you have to cut programs to come up with this money? How will that be worked out? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

The Minister of Finance, Mr. Todd.

There will be a line in the budget, more than likely, Mr. Speaker, that will show the interest payments that we have to pay on the P3 which come out of general revenues.

Thank you. Oral questions. Supplementary, Mr. Picco.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. So, Mr. Speaker, if it is shown as a budget item on your balance sheet and it comes out of general revenues, that would be less money to be given to programs and services. I wonder if all departments would be aware of that, what the percentage would be? I mean, as an example, we have talked about trying to find extra money today for low-income, needy and housing and so on. So, I wonder where this money is going to come from? Reallocated money? Thank you, Mr. Henry.

I would ask the Member perhaps to rephrase his question because you are going into the details of the budget which are not in front of the House yet. If you wish to ask general questions on the replies to the budget that the Minister just did, then you may. Mr. Picco.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I will rephrase the question and ask the Minister, does he foresee any problems in finding the lease payments within the O and M amounts that are available to this government?