Yes, thank you, Mr. Chairman. We have recognized, and I have certainly, as the Minister responsible, the pay equity problem with respect to job evaluation, and we are attempting to negotiate and resolve that. As I said, I am confident was can do that effective April 1, 1998.

Thank you, Mr. Todd. Mr. Picco.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, one of the key areas under the labour relations and compensation services, even in our own acknowledgement in the book that I read, it says maintaining good labour relations. I understand that yesterday I saw a thing called Eye on the Ledge from the Union of Northern Workers who maintain that, indeed, the government seemed to be subterfuging or not coming clear with the statements and questions made by the Minister in the House. Could the Minister tell us, at this time, what is the state of our labour relations?

Thank you, Mr. Picco. Mr. Todd.

Well, I never read the comments in Eye on the Ledge, but my position has been, and I think if you look back, I have rarely made any disparaging comments about the leadership of the UNW, et cetera. What they choose to write and what they choose to say about myself or the Cabinet is their responsibility, not mine. We have put a fair offer, we believe, on the table with respect to pay equity, et cetera. I hope I have demonstrated to this House and to the public at large that I want to be open and fair on the whole issue of collective bargaining, but you know, when you have got two sides to any issue, you are going to have differences of opinion and dispute. Each has their own style and tactics, and I am not about to make any comment on theirs, and they are welcome to make as many comments on line as they so wish.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and welcome to the chair. Mr. Chairman, I would ask Mr. Todd just to go back just a little bit under compensation services. I had mentioned in my Budget Address reply and the questions before in the House how our civil service have not had an increase since 1992, I believe. We rolled them back six percent and then took away the vacation travel allowance and assistance. I had asked, at that time, maybe an indication from the Finance Minister that, indeed, we are going to try to help out our employees who the Finance Minister had said were the back bone of our government. I am wondering now if Mr. Todd has taken those statements and comments. Has he had a chance to address those comments? Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

He is the former vice-president of the UNW. I am surprised, Mr. Speaker, that he would even ask me these questions. He is fully aware, of course, he could be looking for newspapers again, but he is fully aware that we are currently in negotiations with the UNW. I am not at liberty and would not, and he knows that, would not circumvent the negotiation process. I am really quite taken aback that he would ask that question given his background and his knowledge of how negotiations go about. We are in negotiations, for heaven's sake, and he knows that. It would be unfair for me to make any comment to both sides. Just let the negotiation process take its course. This government is sensitive, just as he is, to our civil service, and I do believe that many of my friends and relations who are in the civil service have worked hard for this government. We would not have gone through the troubles we had without them. I just think that is an inappropriate question to ask me at this time. I think he knows it.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, it is a day for corrections, so I should correct the Finance Minister. No, I did not make that comment for the sake of the newspapers or media. I was asking it in a serious manner, and I was never the vice-president of the Union of Northern Workers. I was a regional and local president who served on the negotiating team. There is quite a difference. Mr. Todd knows fully well, as I do the UNW only make up one component of our work force that are currently in negotiations. I was thinking about the people who are excluded from the bargaining unit. I was thinking about the Northwest Territories Teachers' Association who just completed a negotiated settlement and accepted their contract. I was thinking about those types of employees, not necessarily the UNW. So that is what I meant when I asked if he looked at that. Has he looked at those types of people? I know you cannot circumvent the negotiating that is going on right know. So those brothers and sisters out there who are actually in and outside the bargaining unit, and I would appreciate a response from a Minister that was not flippant, sarcastic or challenging to open me up for a debate because I understand that you are not supposed to ask questions to start a debate. I was asking in an honest manner, and I have tried to not cause any type of debate with Mr. Todd. I am trying to ask these questions in a very serious and not facetious way so I would expect that the retort from the honourable Member would, indeed, be in the same circumstances. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

That was wonderful, Mr. Chairman, just wonderful. The reality is, of course, the NWTTA has already agreed to a collective agreement. So that is the issue that Mr. Picco points out is looking after their interest is irrelevant. They voted on it, so it is a dead issue. Management, we will handle, and UNW, I am not prepared to discuss it because it is under negotiations right now. We will have to see how that unfolds. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Again on the issue of pay equity, the Minister mentioned some time back that the government was presently involved in a job evaluation performance for the pay equity issue. My question is, is this solely a government process or are the Union of Northern Workers involved in that process. Thank you.

Job evaluation was done by the government per se, but we have to negotiate it, as my deputy says, the pay structure with the UNW.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I have some questions surrounding that. I appreciate that the Minister says that negotiations will take their course, and that is fine. What I am trying to get an understanding for is if there was no change to the present contract, and that will come out through in negotiations, but if there was no change how much more would it cost the government to initiate pay equity for our present employees?

I cannot, at this time, disclose that, Mr. Chairman, because we are in negotiations. What we think the ongoing cost would be should be reached in a satisfactory settlement on pay equity and the job evaluation. I cannot say at this time. Thank you.

So then it is all up to a process in negotiations? Is the Minister telling us that the amount of money that we settle on for the obligations up until April 1, 1998 are reflective of what the ongoing and future costs will be?