Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Perhaps I can hold up a pie chart here. I do not know if the Member can see it from his seat but let us say this is the budget the department provides to the Baffin Divisional Education Council. Our formula allocates funding according to these different pieces of the pie. However, we deliver the whole package to

the Baffin Divisional Education Council and they choose to cut the pieces of pie any size they wish. While the Member talks about us having given the Baffin Divisional Education Council only $20,000 for math textbooks, he may not be aware that for material and supplies we gave the Baffin Divisional Education Council $1.8 million and that was to buy books and so on. What we did this year is said because of the introduction of the new math curriculum, we will provide a little bit of a top-up here, but the normal expectation is that out of the ordinary operations and maintenance, divisional educational councils will provide their own supplies for the school year. It is entirely up to divisional education councils as to how they choose to allocate their funds.

We could easily, as we have in the past, provided nothing to divisional education councils when a new curriculum was introduced, and said it is all covered under the material and supplies part of the budget. In this case, we decided to top it up because of the expense of the new curriculum coming in. We have to take a look at this in terms of the bigger picture and that is, all of the funds are going out to the divisional education councils. We use a certain formula to determine the funds each education council gets - so much for operation and maintenance so much for materials and supplies, so much for bussing, so much for senior secondary and so much for special needs. At the end of the day they get that package of dollars and it is up to the councils to determine how best to spend those dollars. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I want to make it clear to the Member that I was not saying the councils are not under pressure fiscally. I was trying to point out that it is not particularly productive to pick one particular area of the formula that we use because they get a total lump sum, no matter how we may come up with those dollars. They get a pot of money and they can spend it any way they want. If they choose not to spend money on bussing for instance, things can get allocated. That was the point I was trying to make. Yes, all of the divisional education councils are under fiscal pressure as is the whole government with the cutbacks. I cannot answer the Member's question about what it would take. It would take some time to determine what it is we need. We heard from Members around the table yesterday and today about the need to bring down the pupil/teacher ratio. Other Members noted that teacher supports are more important. I think it would take some time to say, well here is my wish list and then grant it by order of priority. I do not know how productive that would be at this point, not seeing any pots of gold at the end of the rainbow right now. I think we are better served by working to deliver programs, as best we can, with the resources we have. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. We are continuing to work with the federal government to see if we can access more funding for that new school. The designs are actually being prepared for an eleven-classroom school instead of seven. To date, the federal government has only committed to funding the seven classrooms. As the Members of this House know, the capital budget of our department is severely stretched right now, so we have not yet been able to identify any additional funding and will continue to work with the federal government to see if we can pressure them to agree that this is a result of incremental growth, therefore should be incremental funding.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Last night at our constituency meeting, we had an individual present a sheet of paper, I believe he handed it to other members as well. Irvin Sumter-Freitag, he is a former educator. He has about 20 years experience. He raised a very good issue that I would like the Minister to tell me what is done in this area. Our turnover of teachers is significant in the territories. It always has been and will continue for some time, no doubt. The reasons for the turnover are, the public comments are, well, it is because no housing is available, because of VTA cutbacks and so forth. There may be some other underlying reasons such as displeasure with the way students act in classes or lack of support from the community in discipline matters, areas like that. Now what Mr. Sumter-Freitag in his sheet of paper, which he gave us, which had some good areas of comments in various areas, especially under education, pointed out; has the department thought about doing an exit report on teachers who leave the teaching profession in the Northwest Territories, either depart from the north or stay in the north but just leave the profession? I guess my two questions are: has the department ever done this? Are they doing it now and if not, would they consider doing such an exit report, so we get an idea of perhaps the real reasons teachers are moving on? Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Many, if not most, of the divisional education councils do conduct those exit surveys with teachers right now. The information is consolidated and passed on to the department. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

I am wondering if the Minister could tell us what some of the reasons for teachers leaving their profession, or leaving the position, is more appropriate?

In the Baffin; for instance, a very high number, about thirteen, have accepted transfers to other divisions in the Northwest Territories. A number of others have suggested personal concerns like work related stress, the cost of living, salary reductions and housing as reasons for leaving.

In the Keewatin, a number of teachers indicated they wished to return to southern Canada to be nearer to family. Two teachers resigned and listed the reason as burnout. We have a fairly concise listing. I could go through all nine of the divisional education councils, but it would take some time to list them, Mr. Chairman. If the Member is interested, I would be happy to make him a copy of this and he could have the information himself.

Yes, thank you. I would appreciate having a look at that report if it is available. An area I spoke about yesterday was education being not necessarily tailored to specific jobs, but at least having the ability to identify where future jobs might be in the territories. Whatever I think, all know the students who are in our school system in the territories in all likelihood want to stay in the territories. The question becomes where is it the students can possibly obtain a job in the future? I will make a statement. I think it is one I feel is there. I do not have any reasons for saying it other than I am making some assumptions. Part of the difficulty I think students face in the territories is there are no jobs out there. There is no real future to look forward to. If you are in school and are taking education but do not know where you are going to end up for a job, let

alone a profession, then it must become very discouraging. Can the department tell me if they have looked at the idea of identifying where potential large numbers of jobs might be in the years to come? If they are hypothetically in mining, then at least the department could tailor their programs more to that. For example, if you are in Nunavut, you have the establishment of the Nunavut government. Education systems then can be tailored to that. I am wondering if there is such a study being undertaken or statistics analyzed or some sort of identification?

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, the NWT Labour Force Development Plan was an attempt to do that kind of work. This is something that is updated every two or three years by the department and it is, in fact, an effort to try and forecast where job opportunities will be and project where we should target our efforts. Members may not be aware in grade eight, every school is required to ensure that every student has a session with a counsellor and their parents to talk about careers and where they might be going.

Over the course of the last two years, I am sure members will recall the department has prepared a number of booklets ranging from careers in mining, careers in the public service, and so on, to try and make sure students are aware the opportunities that are out there.

I think there has been a recognition that, in the past, we have not done as good a job as we could in preparing students to make choices about careers. The department is working to try and rectify this situation. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.