Thank you, Mr. Rabesca. General comments. If there are no further general comments, is everybody agreed that we should go to questions? Questions for the Minister? Agreed?

Are there any questions? Mr. Steen.

Thank you, Madam Chairperson. Madam Chairperson, I have a number of questions related to my comments yesterday. I suppose my first one to the Minister would be in regard to whole language versus phonics. I would like to know what the department's position is on this?

Thank you, Mr. Steen. Mr. Dent.

Thank you, Madam Chairperson. The department does not have an official position on one or the other. It is an interesting debate that has gone on for a long time. My parents are in their 70s. Both were teachers. One was taught phonics and one was taught whole language when they were going through school 60-some years ago. It has been a process that has gone full circle many times.

What appears to be happening, in most divisional education councils or in most schools teachers use a combination of the two, whichever works best for the individual student. That seems to be the most accepted method right now and it is not to say that one is better than the other. They both have their place and both can be used as circumstances require. Thank you, Madam Chairperson.

Thank you, Mr. Dent. Mr. Steen.

Thank you, Madam Chairperson. I understand the Minister to say that the concern, or the issue, has been around for a number of years, but it is my understanding that it is becoming a national issue whereby it seems to have played a large part on the ability for people to be able to read. I also understand, based on an article I read in Time magazine, I believe, that some Education Ministers in the provinces were refusing to take a position on it and refusing to take the stand that whole language holds a priority over phonics in their particular riding, territory or provinces.

What I am concerned about is, has the department looked at this from that perspective? Do we have any ongoing surveys that would actually support one or the other as being favourable or more productive?

Thank you, Mr. Steen. Mr. Dent.

Thank you, Madam Chairperson. The department is not taking a specific position. Are there people in the department who are professional educators who read the journals to keep up with what the latest information is? The answer is yes. I understand the most recent information is that for some young people, phonics is the best way to learn how to read. For others, whole language is the way. There is no conclusive evidence to say that one way is better than the other. What most experts today are saying is that a good teacher will use both as appropriate.

Thank you, Mr. Dent. Mr. Steen.

Thank you, Madam Chairperson. Madam Chairperson, my second question is in regard to the motion made by Committee of the Whole earlier this spring in regard to having career technology studies or shop programs and home economic programs compulsory in all classrooms. I have a letter here from Mr. Dent, or a memo to all Members, suggesting that career technology studies are available in all communities that have high schools. My question is in relation to, do they have the facilities? Do we have standards whereby we are assured that these facilities and the equipment necessary are available in the smaller communities, space is available, or do we leave that up to the boards?

Thank you, Mr. Steen. Mr. Dent.

Thank you, Madam Chairperson. We do not, of course, have facilities available in all communities because as school populations have grown so dramatically in the last few years and as schools have had to accommodate the increased grade levels in each community, there has been no way to keep up with space demands. In many cases, areas that might have been used for career and technology studies are now being used for classroom purposes.

We do, however, when we find the money for renovations, try and include space in the schools to allow for better career and technology study programming. For instance, the capital plan is being amended right now for Holman because we are planning to add onto the school to accommodate the high school grades. When we proceed with construction, we will be building on space that could be used for what has traditionally been called a shop program.

Thank you, Mr. Dent. Mr. Steen.

Thank you, Madam Chairperson. Madam Chairperson, my other question is, considering the amount of pressure there is to have proper high schools in the communities - one of the issues that has surfaced in particular is, mixing high school students with the lower grades and students have caused a lot of discipline problems - are we moving toward separate high schools in the smaller communities with, say 1,000 or 1,500 people? What is the number? What is the magic number we use that justifies a high school in the smaller communities? The other half of my question is, are we moving toward having these high schools separate from the lower grades?

Thank you, Mr. Steen. Mr. Dent.

Thank you, Madam Chairperson. There is no magic number that the department uses to decide when to build separate facilities. In most small communities we will not be able to build two facilities. So what typically happens is there is some physical separation that the designers try and build into the school when we do the renovations to accommodate the senior grades. As I said in an earlier response, it has been rather difficult for us to keep up. The capital plan has just not been big enough for us to keep up with the renovations as quickly as we would like to get them done. However, as we get to them in the communities, you will see, the schools will encompass a design feature that provides for better separation of age groupings and I think that it will deal with the problem. Thank you, Madam Chairperson.

Thank you, Mr. Dent. Mr. Steen.

Madam Chairperson, we have a problem, apparently, attracting high quality teaching staff. It is starting to surface in the smaller communities all over the territories. I believe that salary and benefits may not be adequate to attract staff. What is the department's position, or what precautions is the department taking to assure that, for instance, if boards cannot attract staff in time for the next school year, what do we do in the small community where there are no teachers? What are the department's plans in that regard?

Thank you, Mr. Steen. Mr. Dent.

Thank you, Madam Chairperson. So far, we have not had any indication from divisional education councils that they do not have sufficient applicants to cover the turnover that has been seen this year. We would have to wait until we were notified that there was, in fact, a problem before we could look at responding to it. We are hoping that there will not be a problem, but only time will tell. Thank you, Madam Chairperson.

Thank you, Mr. Dent. Next on the list I have Mr. Ningark.