This is page numbers 1401 - 1431 of the Hansard for the 13th Assembly, 5th Session. The original version can be accessed on the Legislative Assembly's website or by contacting the Legislative Assembly Library. The word of the day was education.

Topics

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1421

John Ningark Natilikmiot

Thank you, Madam Chairperson. Madam Chairperson, I think one of the areas we have talked about, in our communities and regional board meetings, is compulsory education as we know it today. Is it working out in the small communities, I do not know? Rather than being a solution in the small communities, I think it is a major factor of having

created animosities between the teaching staff, the local education council and the parents. My question to the honourable Minister is, compulsory education as we know it is not working out. What are the consequences or penalties for those who are not attending school? I know one area is that there is the potential for the community, or the regional board, to lose some funding from the government if there are non-attenders in the communities, specific communities. Thank you.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1422

The Chair

The Chair Jane Groenewegen

Thank you, Mr. Ningark. Mr. Dent.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Charles Dent

Charles Dent Yellowknife Frame Lake

Thank you, Madam Chairperson. I do not have a copy of the Education Act with me in the House right now, so I cannot answer the Member's specific question about what the penalties are under the Act. I do know that over this past weekend, I had a meeting that had all the councils and chairs from across the north in attendance. A couple of councils have indicated that they are moving to have charges laid in instances where there are situations of non-attendance. I do know that the department is assisting by requesting the Department of Justice to provide a reference on the Education Act in its provisions to make sure such prosecutions will stand up. Thank you, Madam Chairperson.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1422

The Chair

The Chair Jane Groenewegen

Thank you, Mr. Dent. Mr. Ningark.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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John Ningark Natilikmiot

Thank you. I say this in order to indicate publicly that I am one of those people who are not in favour of having a heavy penalty placed upon a relative of a non-attender in communities. Quite the contrary, Madam Chairperson. In my culture, we have never penalized or punished anyone for their wrong behaviour. I think we have to try and get feedback from the communities on what is working and what is not. One area that I was told about, one of the penalties - I understand I can speak to that - I support is a parent of a non-attender should not be a part of the local education council, and should be removed from that body in the community. The monetary penalties and other penalties, I am not in favour of.

I think we can prescribe something in the community and have, to a degree, some penalties that the people in the small communities can handle. This is sufficient as long as it has nothing to do with having to place a heavy penalty on a parent or having a jail term. I think that is a bit heavy. Having listened to some people and talked about what is working and what is not, I think compulsory education as we know it has never worked in the past in the small communities where local teaching staff is related to everyone in the community and where the local education council is related to everyone in the community, where a person who is charged with the responsibility of talking to parents of non-attenders is related to everyone in the community. There is little hope of having whatever penalty being enforced in the community. I think we have to step back a bit, reassess the situation and come up with something that can, in fact, work in the community. I hope the Minister will now communicate with communities and see what is working and what is not. Thank you.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1422

The Chair

The Chair Jane Groenewegen

Thank you, Mr. Ningark. Mr. Dent.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Charles Dent

Charles Dent Yellowknife Frame Lake

Thank you, Madam Chairperson. Decisions about whether or not to pursue the option of laying a charge against the parents of non-attenders are entirely local decisions. If the local community decides to pursue that, they may. It is not something that is directed by the Minister. It is not something that is directed by the department. This is something that local people are in the position to make decisions about and do. In response to the Member's concern about parents of non-attenders sitting on the district education authority, this too is a local decision. The Education Act gives a lot of control to the local community. The district education authority can set, under the Education Act, its own code of conduct, and if its code of conduct says that a member of the district education authority must resign if they are a parent of a non-attender, then that would be the terms and conditions that would have to be followed in that community. Again, the whole administration of education is something which the local community is expected to take a significant amount of control. The Education Act allows this, and it would not be right for the Minister to try and impose decisions on the local community. Thank you, Madam Chairperson.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1422

The Chair

The Chair Jane Groenewegen

Thank you, Mr. Dent. Mr. Ningark.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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John Ningark Natilikmiot

Thank you. I signalled that I was not going to ask further questions, but I thank the Minister for outlining what is the ability of a local or district education council. My understanding, Madam Chairperson, is that what is prescribed in the Education Act is what that group in the community is able to enforce. That was my understanding. What is not prescribed in the Education Act is not what the community group is able to do. That was my understanding. Thank you.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1422

The Chair

The Chair Jane Groenewegen

Thank you, Mr. Ningark. Mr. Dent.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Charles Dent

Charles Dent Yellowknife Frame Lake

Thank you, Madam Chairperson. I do not believe that under the new Education Act, there has been anybody charged because of non-attendance. As I mentioned earlier over the weekend however, we heard from a couple of board chairs that there are at least two divisional education councils in the territories that are considering moving in that direction. Again, that is a local decision. That is not something that has been ordered by the department or the Minister. They have decided that they think it is important, and their residents in their communities have told them they think it is important, to follow this course of action. Therefore, the act allows them to do that, but it does not force them to do it.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1422

The Chair

The Chair Jane Groenewegen

Thank you, Mr. Dent. On the list next under questions on the state of education in the Northwest Territories, I have Mr. O'Brien.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Kevin O'Brien Kivallivik

Thank you, Madam Chairperson. My question to the Minister is, are there any programs in place that identify students with FAE/FAS so that the teachers can know who they have in their classes and what level of students? Thank you.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1422

The Chair

The Chair Jane Groenewegen

Thank you, Mr. O'Brien. Mr. Dent.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Charles Dent

Charles Dent Yellowknife Frame Lake

Thank you, Madam Chairperson. My understanding is that it takes a fairly specialized physician working with the mother who is able to provide some history before such a diagnosis can definitively be made. The answer is, no, we do not have physicians working in the schools to try and do that kind of assessment. It would take a fairly detailed campaign, to try and provide that sort of assessment across the territories. Thank you, Madam Chairperson.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair John Ningark

Mr. Dent, I am Mr. Chairman. We have just had a changeover. Mr. O'Brien.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Kevin O'Brien Kivallivik

Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and welcome. Mr. Dent, I am sure you realize that there probably are a number of these children in the classrooms who have this problem, and it must cause a great deal of concern for the teachers trying to sort out, in some cases, why certain children are not learning as fast as the others, and so on and so forth. Is there any thought or idea of how you might try to address this? I realize we do not have doctors on staff or medical practitioners, but is there some other type of testing that can be done so that we can at least identify some of the individuals who may be affected with some of these disorders? Thank you.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1423

The Chair

The Chair Vince Steen

Thank you, Mr. O'Brien. The honourable Minister.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1423

Charles Dent

Charles Dent Yellowknife Frame Lake

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I do not mean to give Members the impression that no assessment is done. The divisional education councils work with teachers to assess which students have problems, which students need individual education programs, which students need classroom assistance, support and so on. My point was that to make a specific diagnosis of Fetal Alcohol Syndrome is next to impossible. I know from personal experience that it cannot be done. That does not mean that there is not some assessment being done to determine how many kids need support and how many kids need what kinds of support, but to label the cause of the problem is sometimes impossible. We still have to find ways to provide support no matter what the cause is.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1423

The Chair

The Chair Vince Steen

Thank you. Mr. O'Brien.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Kevin O'Brien Kivallivik

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Just switching gears a bit here now and speaking of truancy. The number of children that do not attend school or attend it on a very irregular basis, hanging out on the street corners, in local stores, and so on; I remember years ago when we were going to school that if you did not show up at school the truant officer showed up at your door and spoke to your folks and you were basically told to have your children in school. Is there any thought of reintroducing some type of system that would force parents? I know you may say, well we should not have to do that because they are the parents, they will do what is right. As we all know, that is not always the case no matter what part of the world you are in. My question is, is there any thought of reintroducing some type of a truancy officer program where there would be more pressure on the parents to make the children attend school on a regular basis?

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1423

The Chair

The Chair Vince Steen

Thank you. Mr. Minister.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Charles Dent

Charles Dent Yellowknife Frame Lake

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. School community counsellors have a role to play in this area. Again, as I indicated in my response to Mr. Ningark, the local community can make decisions in this area too, if they wish, in terms of how strict they want to be at enforcing what the Education Act sets out as possibilities. If the district education authority chooses to institute that kind of followup, it would be at the community's decision.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1423

The Chair

The Chair Vince Steen

Thank you. The honourable Member for Keewatin District, Mr. O'Brien.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Kevin O'Brien Kivallivik

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I think to a large degree, and I know I am speaking of my communities that, for example, the arcade owners will ensure that children do not hang around the arcade during school hours, the store owners at the Northern Store, the Co-op Store and other areas that the children may find attractive to hang out when they really should be in school. I think that is being done and I know that is what is happening in my community. There are other areas, I guess, and locations that the children tend to go and it is not necessarily known at the time whether they are in somebody's store or home. My question is related to the parents, how do we make the parents more accountable, without involving the hamlet? I think the onus is on the parents. I think that the communities are doing what they can to ensure that the children do attend school. Going back to my original question, would you not consider reinstating a truant officer program where someone would be in charge to make sure that the children did attend school and that if not there would be some type of a penalty or warning or whatever? Thank you.