Thank you, Mr. Miltenberger. Mrs. Groenewegen.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. The department works in very close association with the boards and that is why we want to discuss this with the board chairs because this is, as I have stated before, a relatively new situation where we have deficits like this. When we are looking at options for deficit recovery, it is very important how those options are communicated and consulted. We want to make sure that we do it properly and that will be a discussion that will take place with the board chairs.

Thank you, Mrs. Groenewegen. Mr. Miltenberger.

The discussion will take place, But who will finally decide on the process? Will that be by ministerial direction or will there be a consensus reached with the boards? I did not catch the answer as to when this will be done given the pressing nature of the fiscal situation. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Miltenberger. Mrs. Groenewegen.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. We do not anticipate that the operational reviews are going to be complete. I am not exactly sure. It is a few months away before the operational reviews will be completed. They are also a very important piece of this discussion.

Who will decide? Well, we will decide along with the governance structures that we have right now to deliver health and social services in the regions and the communities. We will have a discussion about it. I think that we all recognize the kinds of difficulties that can occur when proper consultation does not take place. It has to be done in an orderly fashion, otherwise people get upset and we do not want to cause undue alarm, and we are committed to maintaining the standard of health care for residents. Thank you.

Thank you, Mrs. Groenewegen. Mr. Miltenberger.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. The process seems to be to come in with general requests for funds and we will give you the detail later about why we needed it and that should be sufficient. It seems somewhat reversed.

If, in fact, you were going to a bank to ask for this kind of money, my suggestion would be that they would probably just politely listen to your statement and show you the door and ask you to come back with some more detail with the kind of money you want.

This is not new. This has been building for awhile. Health care costs have been an issue. I just cannot quite understand why there is an inability to give any kind of detail. I know that the figures are big, but it would seem to me that there should at least be enough detail to satisfy the questions of the Members. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Miltenberger. Mrs. Groenewegen.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, I understand the Member's concern, but in some instances the department was actually waiting for the level of detail that we are talking about from the various boards, and it was not forthcoming in a very timely manner. I will not name the boards.

We work together. We are trying to assist them. Hopefully they are trying to assist us. We work together to get this information together to make these kinds of decisions. Thank you.

Thank you, Mrs. Groenewegen. Mr. Bell.

Thank you. We are talking about deficit recovery plans here, and there are other boards that are in a deficit situation that I believe were to have their recovery plans in by August. I am wondering if the Minister can tell us if they made them in before the end of August? Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Bell. Mrs. Groenewegen.

I know that the department, Mr. Chairman, has communicated with the other three boards besides Stanton with respect to their deficit and the ideal and the initiative to undertake the operational reviews is something that came into play after people had already started working on their deficit recovery plans.

I think it can be expected that there is probably going to be a delay in the implementation of any kind of deficit recovery until that information is here. The operational reviews will help the boards and help us to get a clearer understanding of what some of the challenges are. Thank you.

Thank you, Mrs. Groenewegen. Mr. Bell.

Thank you. If I understood the Minister, deficit recovery plans are being shelved until we see the operational review. I am assuming that the August 31st deadline came and went without the plans being submitted. Is that correct?

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I do not think that if a board comes up with an initiative or an ideal for creating some efficiency that was going to be a cost saving measure for their board, and if the department and the government approved it that we would say no, that we do not want you to go ahead with that until the operational review is done.

I would not say that deficit recovery plans and initiatives are shelved, but certainly we recognize that we need more information. We also recognize that during the time we are getting more information the cost will continue to accrue. Thank you.

Thank you, Mrs. Groenewegen. Mr. Bell.

Indeed, that would be a nice scenario if boards were to come forward with cost saving initiatives before the operational review were complete, but what about the flip of that scenario, boards that have not submitted plans or do not come forward at all with plans. What are we prepared to do in that case?

I guess my concern is the same concern that I expressed earlier with Municipal and Community Affairs. Those that seem to be managing efficiently and effectively, in effect, can look at themselves as being punished for having done so, because they cannot get additional monies, so a similar concern here.

If boards do not come forward with the deficit recovery plans that we have insisted that they are to come forward with, how many months go by before we step in and say that this is not acceptable and force them to deal with the problem?

Mr. Handley.

Mr. Chairman, I will refer that one to the Minister responsible for Health and Social Services.

Minister responsible for Health and Social Services, Mrs. Groenewegen.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, when we are dealing with boards where there have been expenditures of monies that were expended on avoidable costs, the operational review will reveal that. Those situations will be corrected with the boards.

There are capacity issues and I am not trying to say there are no efficiencies and things could not be done better, but there have been challenges facing the boards. There are capacity issues with the boards where almost all of the boards have had the same kinds of recruitment and retention issues, increased medical travel costs associated with personnel and human resources issues.

There are some consistent threads through some of the challenges that some of the boards have been facing so we want to be receptive to that as well. I do not think the boards or the department wants to take an approach that is not responsible. We want to manage the resources that we have in the best way and I believe that the boards are operating in that same vein as well.

Where there might be things that could have been avoided, the review will reveal those things and they will be addressed.