General comments on Bill 1. Department by department, does the committee agree?

We will follow the order that we have listed. We will proceed with the Department of Resources, Wildlife and Economic Development under page 11-7 of the main estimates. With that, I would like to ask the Minister responsible for this portfolio if he has any opening comments on the department's estimates. Mr. Handley.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, I would like to make the opening comments for the Department of Resources, Wildlife and Economic Development. Mr. Chairman, I would like to discuss the main estimates for the Department of Resources, Wildlife, and Economic Development. The mandate of the department is to promote economic self-sufficiency and growth through the sustainable development of natural resources and to enhance the creation of new, sustainable opportunities in the traditional and wage economies

The four key priorities of Towards a Better Tomorrow are: one, self-reliant individuals, families and communities, working with governments, toward improving social well-being. Two, better governance through partnerships. Three, a northern controlled economy that is balanced, diversified, stable and vibrant. And four, adequate resources helping all levels of government to become more self-reliant in meeting the needs of the people they serve. The Department of Resources, Wildlife and Economic Development contributes to the achievement of each of these.

The Department of Resources, Wildlife and Economic Development plays a critical role in assisting in the creation of a diversified economy. The key is providing an effective balance between the development of our resources, enhancing employment opportunities for residents and minimizing social and environmental impacts.

The Department of Resources, Wildlife and Economic Development has the lead role within government to ensure that our northern environment is protected and managed responsibly. Environmental protection services is responsible for the protection of the northern environment through initiatives and programs regarding air quality, hazardous waste discharges, solid waste management, and environmental assessment.

Priorities for this fiscal year are: exploring a revenue neutral beverage container recovery program, completing a greenhouse strategy to be released to the public for consultation and improving the northern environmental regulatory system. The goal is to create a modern regulatory system that has consistent practices and standards. For example, a new air quality code of practice for the oil and gas industry is being drafted for release this year. Hazardous waste management guidelines for biomedical waste, institutional waste, and lead paint are also being developed.

A key part of the department's mandate is forest management. Forest management is responsible for the administration and management of the NWT's forest resources, including issuing harvest authorities, completing resource inventories and forest health assessments, reforestation and fire management. Fire management emphasizes the protection of people, property and forest areas from wildfire through prevention and suppression activities. A major fire management initiative this year is a framework agreement between RWED and MACA. The objective of the agreement is to improve the protection of communities from the threat of forest fires in the urban/wildland interface.

The issuing of timber harvest authorities, forest inventories, and silviculture activities will result in the development of capacity at the community level and the direct involvement of aboriginal people in the management of forest resources on traditional lands.

Parks and tourism is responsible for the implementation of the Protected Areas Strategy and the development and operation of parks and visitor centres. One of the priorities this year is to complete outstanding commitments under the strategy including reviewing the Parks Act to include a category for protected areas. A second priority is the development of a tourism strategy for the NVVT that includes marketing the NWT as a prime tourist destination and developing quality regional attractions.

Wildlife and fisheries will concentrate on programs that support individual harvesters and harvesters' organizations throughout the NWT in an effort to ensure that opportunities remain available in the traditional economy. Wildlife and fisheries will also collect baseline wildlife information, particularly in the Mackenzie Valley. Data collection programs are required to predict, monitor, and mitigate impacts to wildlife from resource development. This information is critical in facilitating the environmental assessment and review process for development proposals.

Managing development and maximizing benefits are important for the future of the NWT. We have an unprecedented opportunity to move towards greater economic self-sufficiency through the development of our non-renewable resource sector. Minerals, oil and gas provides expert advice on mineral and petroleum resource development in the NWT. The division participates in developing strategies to increase economic benefits from resource development to NWT residents and businesses. This includes pursuing northern control over northern resources through a northern accord.

With one diamond mine in production and two at the feasibility and development stage, the NWT is at the forefront of the international diamond community. Diamond projects has four main priorities this fiscal year. They include: the development of a marketing plan for northern diamonds and diamond products; negotiating an agreement with Diavik on the supply of rough diamonds to northern manufacturers; implementing a monitoring program for NWT diamond manufacturers; and a certification program for diamonds mined and cut in the NWT in order to promote their sale in export markets.

Trade and investment provides expert advice and financial support to the NWT business community and promotes the NWT as an investment location in the international marketplace. It also provides support to the Business Credit Corporation and the NWT Development Corporation. Trade and investment will continue to develop partnerships with business and professional associations to create the environment conducive to increased trade and investment

The Business Credit Corporation provides direct support to northern businesses through the provision of loans, loan guarantees, and contract security to eligible businesses. Emphasis for the BCC in the coming year will be to increase local decision-making capacity, encourage self-reliance, and improve access to capital for business enterprises.

The NWT Development Corporation provides financing through equity investments in NWT businesses. The Corporation is mandated to provide investment and ongoing support for ventures in small communities where the prospects for profitability may be weak, but benefits from employment creation are high. Continued efforts will be directed towards providing assistance in strengthening management and production capacity at the community level, and developing markets and the products to satisfy the needs of those markets.

Community economic development services provides funding and overall co-ordination for regionally based Community Futures development organizations that facilitate access to capital for entrepreneurs. The priority this year will be to continue the expansion of the network of Community Futures organizations by establishing a new organization in Fort Smith.

Mr. Chairman, as you can see the Department of Resources, Wildlife and Economic Development is working within the vision of Towards a Better Tomorrow The key to success is partnerships, sustainable development, economic diversification and fiscal self-reliance. These move us closer to being the first "have" Territory in Canada's history. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Minister. Does the committee responsible for overseeing this department have any comments? The chairman of the Standing Committee on Governance and Economic Development, Mr. Roland.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

The mandate of the Department of Resources, Wildlife and Economic Development is to promote economic self-sufficiency through the sustainable development of natural resources and to enhance the creation of sustainable opportunities in the traditional and wage economies.

The Standing Committee on Governance and Economic Development reviewed the 2000-2003 business plans and main estimates for the Department of Resources, Wildlife and Economic Development on Thursday, May 25 and Friday, May 26, 2000.

The committee observed an overall increase of $3.765 million (five percent) in the draft 2000-2001 main estimates from the 1999-2000 main estimates. The department reduced its number of staff positions by one. There are presently 458 positions in the department.

The committee is concerned the department is not able to effectively fulfill a mandate that includes not only economic development, but also that of environmental protection. This conflict may lead to a decreased ability to take full advantage of the current oil and gas resurgence, but to also properly manage the environmental challenges that come with increased resource development. In a motion made on March 31, 2000 in the Legislative Assembly that requested a comprehensive audit of the department, this potential conflict was also stated. The motion, however, was defeated.

The committee emphasized that tourism has the potential to be an important contributor to the economy of the Northwest Territories. However, proposed funding levels for this sector is expected to decrease slightly from $1.056 million to $1.044 million. Although the proposed decrease of $12,000 is minimal, in real terms it represents continuing erosion in funding for tourism.

Committee members are concerned that tourism continues to receive inadequate levels of funding and if this sector of the economy is expected to grow, more funding and support is required.

The committee also noted the lack of a NWT presence at the Expo in Hanover, Germany. Europe represents a large market for tourism and northern products and committee members were of the opinion that the government might be prudent to have a presence there.

The department explained that it could not afford a booth at Expo. However, the committee suggested that advanced planning for upcoming Expos might result in greater savings.

A focused and effective economic strategy is essential to economic growth in the Northwest Territories. The development of an economic strategy was attempted in the final year of the last government, but without success. There is a need for a coherent economic strategy for this government. A new strategy is in draft form and the department has agreed to supply the committee with a copy for its review prior to tabling. The committee looks forward to reviewing the strategy document.

The petroleum industry is developing a greater presence in the North. Committee members observed that this development represents an opportunity for increased employment and community development. Training for entry into the oil and gas sector will reduce out migration from smaller communities and the Northwest Territories overall.

The committee added that jobs should be located in the communities and regions where the development is taking place. More money and training must be made available for Northerners, especially in the smaller communities, to allow them to take full advantage of petroleum and other resource developments.

Furthermore, the committee encouraged the department to work with the Department of Education, Culture and Employment and industry to develop training programs for Northerners. The committee reminded the government that funding for oil and gas development and training could be found "from within", as the government has done with the diamond industry.

The committee also encourages the government to expend more effort on the traditional economy versus the new wage economy. The traditional economy based on hunting and harvesting, and arts and crafts are sometimes the only viable means of support in many communities. Many communities and regions do not have oil and gas or other large-scale projects in their regions to supply employment opportunities. In addition, many people do not wish to abandon their traditional lifestyle.

Committee members note the lack of an Agricultural policy that will guide the government and industry to effectively and economically harvest and manage our large tracts of arable lands. However, the government replied that until land claims and self-government issues are settled, the development of an effective Agricultural policy could not take place.

The committee supports consultation with stakeholders, especially communities in any policy development or licensing approval including forestry and other resource developments.

In its review of the department's business plans, the committee took note of the 64 vacant positions in the department and the minimal presence of women and aboriginal persons in management.

The department replied that many of the vacant positions are seasonal and they are working on efforts to increase the number of women and aboriginal persons in management.

The committee was concerned that the Northwest Territories Development Corporation did not have a corporate plan. A corporate plan would result in a more responsive, effective and auditable allocation of resources. The department agreed to supply a corporate plan of the Development Corporation once it is completed.

Committee members further pointed out that given the lacklustre investment history of the Development Corporation, the government might not be receiving value for money on its investment. The committee urges the Minister to review the Corporation's subsidiaries and looks forward to receiving and discussing the report with the Minister. That concludes the committee report. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Thank you, Mr. Roland. Before we proceed, I would like to recognize someone in the gallery who is familiar to most people in the North, Mr. Paul Andrew of CBC Northbeat. Welcome, Paul.

-- Applause

At this time, I would like to ask the Minister if he would like to bring in any witnesses.

Yes, Mr. Chairman.

Thank you, Mr. Minister. Does the committee agree?

Would the Sergeant-at-Arms please escort the witnesses in?

At this time, I would like to ask the Minister if he could introduce his witnesses for the record.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. On my left is Bob McLeod, deputy minister for the department. I would also like to point out that Mr. McLeod is a P1 affirmative action person and we are proud to have him here. Just for the record. On my right is Jim Kennedy, director of corporate services for Resources, Wildlife and Economic Development. Not a P1.

Thank you, Mr. Minister. Are there any general comments regarding the department's estimates? General comments? Mr. Miltenberger.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I have a number of comments, which I will tailor to the report as well as to the Minister's opening comments. First, I would just like to quickly point out that this department has been the source of a significant amount of interest since the start of the 14th Assembly. There has been, in the last four years, a significant number of changes in the department. There are concerns about the mandate and the ability to carry out the very divergent parts of the mandate.

Mr. Chairman, this brings me to the issue of the beneficial outcome I see as being there if in fact we took the time, after four years since the department has been amalgamated from at least two others, to see how things are working. I still think there is a benefit to doing that.

This issue as well has been discussed with the federal auditors, in terms of how do you do a value for money audit and this kind of review. I still think that is something we should consider.

I am glad to hear about the revenue-neutral beverage container recovery program, which I think was committed to last year. It is a big issue. The amount of cans and bottles that are consumed in this Territory is significant.

The greenhouse strategy, Mr. Chairman, is a good initiative, but as the Energy Alliance, in their briefing to us pointed out, it is only one piece of a very critical, broader strategy. When we look at the numbers they used, $270 million that is spent on energy provision, it is far greater than the numbers that were provided by the government, which was about $30 million, which was just their direct cost.

I have a real concern that Resources, Wildlife and Economic Development should be leading the way in providing direction to start this kind of strategy. It took two years to develop in the Yukon. The greenhouse strategy on its own is good, but it is only one piece. I am going to be pursuing this issue in the House and in committee as well, simply because of the magnitude and importance of the issue and the amount of money involved.

The tourism area is undernourished. There is no doubt of that. It would be beneficial to see if money could be moved there. On a more structural level, the concern I have had since the 13th Assembly is the decision that was made in the 12th Assembly to get rid of all the regional tourist associations, leaving only two central operations in the east and west. I think we have paid a price for that. If we talk about supporting the regions and communities, we seriously have to look at re-instituting some sort of mechanism that will allow communities and regions to come together in areas of common interest and plan out their strategies.

It cannot be done effectively, and I think this has been demonstrated, out of Yellowknife. Some things possibly can, but not that. I will be encouraging the government to look at that support.

One of the key concerns in the area of economic development is the many processes the department has in place for allocating money through grants and contributions. The concern of coordination, effectiveness, potential double, triple, quadruple dipping of different funds all from the same department...the lack of coordination and the fact that there are so many pots. I am speaking specifically about the DevCorp, the BCC, Community Futures...while I appreciate there is one in Fort Smith, there is finally going to be one set up in Fort Smith, there is a broad area that has to be looked at.

Of course, the department itself and the money it has for economic development, it is scattered. If there was no overall review of the department on the economic development side, I think there was a benefit to come up with a review and a possible broad strategy of how we are going to look at being more effective and efficient in the disbursement of the millions of dollars that are given away in grants and contributions to make sure it is accountable and effective, and it is above board. There is no chance of any kind of political interference or involvement. I think that is a key area.

The human resources area we have touched on fairly thoroughly in the House, Mr. Chairman. I am not going to review those particular areas of affirmative action and the need for a human resource plan.

If I could move to some comments on the Minister's opening remarks, I as well, support the issue of getting an adequate forest inventory. I recall raising this issue a number of times in the House in the 13th Assembly. It is very hard to plan without information, in terms of timber permits and development of the forest sector, if we do not know exactly what the magnitude is and the type of resource that is there. I think it is critical that we pursue that, because there is going to be a growing demand as world consumption and paper products continue to expand. There is going to be northward pressure on that very valuable resource, which takes a long time to regenerate. Very easily, in the South Slave, you can cut down jackpine for firewood that are 100 to 150 plus years old. It is not a product you can afford to waste.

Mr. Chairman, I would also like to briefly touch on the area of the diamond production, specifically the secondary diamond industry. I think every community outside of Yellowknife would like to see efforts made for secondary development in communities other than Yellowknife. Yellowknife has received exclusive benefits so far, but there are other communities who have the workforce and training capabilities, educational facilities, costs of living, costs of operations that definitely put them in the ballpark for consideration.

Mr. Chairman, I would hope if the Minister chooses to respond to my general comments, that he would address some of the broad areas, like the economic ones. I would like to point out as well that I recognize the department does a lot of good work. In Fort Smith, it is a very important part of the community on the forestry side, on the economic side...I think, like the Minister and his staff, I am interested in how we improve the system. There are many people who work very hard to deliver the services they do, the fire centre, the forest management centre. I would like to acknowledge their contributions, not only in Fort Smith, but across the Territory. It is a service we rely on very heavily.

I look forward to the more detailed discussion and the comments of my colleagues. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Thank you, Mr. Miltenberger. Would the Minister like to respond to some of the questions? Mr. Minister.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I appreciate the Member's words, particularly the words of support for the department. It is a big department. It is diverse. It has a mandate that is tremendously important to a lot of people from a lot of perspectives. It is very much on people's minds.

Maybe just to mention an overall review. While I believe everything should be reviewed to make sure it is functioning and that it is effective, and is efficient as possible. I am not against that. The one thing that I will say about the department, though, is that it is a very busy department. There are not any days for any division where people can say that they have caught up with their work. They are going full tilt because of what is happening, whether you talk about the energy strategy, the tourism strategy, the need to coordinate and integrate some of the service we provide, better delivery out there, the demands and the need to be on schedule on oil and gas issues, and so on. It is a department that is driven very rapidly. Rather than, at this point, undertaking some kind of major review that would use up a lot of people's time, not just in the department but outside the department, we are better off to meet some of the more important targets we have to meet on a timely basis. Second, do the things that are most obviously not working as well as we would like them to work.

On the energy side, we are doing the greenhouse gas strategy. We are looking at some of the alternatives to fossil fuels and ways to possibly set up programs that are not going to bankrupt us but will enable us to do some innovative things in the use of solar heat, for example. We are working on some of those. I realize there is a need for a comprehensive energy strategy, but just in terms of time and demands, it is one thing I do not think we can take on right now. But we are working on pieces of it and as we get time I think these will come together into a good comprehensive strategy.

For tourism, we really have to look at the big picture. That, to me, is the big opportunity for a lot of small communities. They are not all going to have a pipeline, or a diamond mine, or a diamond-polishing facility. They all have a lot of tourism potential. We really have to look at the big picture here, not be stopped because you want to save five cents here or there. We have got to look at the big picture and make some critical investments right now, not just the government, but in partnership with the private sector. All of us, government and private sector, have to work together on this one. It is too important for all the communities, including the bigger ones like Yellowknife.

In terms of the other comments you made in regard to the overlap and possible confusion with the Northwest Territories Development Corporation, BCC, Community Futures, business development funds, all of those things, even our grants and contributions programs, we have set that as a priority for this year on how to integrate those and make them more efficient and more effective. We are undertaking that one. We need to do that one and we will do it. In terms of the broad economic picture, we have to keep that in mind, whether it is in forestry, or oil and gas, or in tourism, keep mind the need to have a diversified economy, the need to make sure that we are using northern products, that we are manufacturing, adding the value in the North. I guess all I can say is that I appreciate the Member's comments and certainly support them. I think we are heading in the direction he indicates. Thanks.

Thank you, Mr. Handley. General comments. Mr. Roland.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I would like to make a few comments. In reading the report in committee, I was awaiting information from the department and I am happy to say we have that information. I hope the Minister is prepared with me to take this page-by-page as we go through the department. You have a lot of filler information in here. Thank you for providing it, but as you are aware, we just received this as we returned back to prepare for this. Many of my colleagues have not had the opportunity to go through this. As I sit here I am trying to go through it but it is taking some time.

That goes to the process of the information, why we as Members have requested a layout that all departments will use. Resources, Wildlife and Economic Development did have a fairly good presentation during the committee review, and there were many questions. As a result of some of the questions, some of that information was not available. The Minister did provide a lot of information that we are going to need to go through, as time permits. I will not go page by page, and will throw this on here, but I will ask some clarification on some of this because you have a lot of information in one section alone, that will apply further into the details.

I will have some questions in the area of some of the previous work that has been done in reference to this department when it comes to the amount of different lending agencies it uses when it comes to business development and business support. What role they are playing, and possibly what this budget will do, or what this department will do to try to deal with some of the issues that were raised. There is previous work in the report that was done that I will use as we go through the detail here. We have heard through a lot of discussion, it was raised in committee, the concerns that remain out there about the roles that this department plays.

Almost from day one, when it was said to do the amalgamation, there were concerns of the roles one department would play in trying to develop the North, and another role of trying to protect the North. It is not an easy task to do within each department, and it is not something that you would envy doing, especially, when number one, you are being moved around and some jobs were reduced and a lot of funding was pulled out of the departments that were used, or previously did the functions, now carried out from the one department. It would be nice to have a summary at some point, I do not expect it at this point, but of how far the department feels it has come since being first amalgamated. That might try to address the concerns raised by the private sector, by government itself, and by the committee and Members.

A lot has been done. A lot of water has gone under the bridge, so to speak, but there remains much water yet to be tread, so to speak, and to move forward on. I will save the details until we go through here. There is concern with the information that has been there. Again, I thank the Minister for providing it, but we did receive it rather late, I must say. Understandably, we are all operating under the gun here and trying to deal with this budget cycle and having the late election and all, and having us sit here this month and possibly into the next month. But we must do the best we can and hopefully the Minister will have information and responses to the questions we will raise as a result of the information being provided, and putting it on record.

We have had many questions in committee that only the committee members and the Minister and his department were able to deal with. Hopefully, at this forum, he will be able to put on record some of the issues that were raised and some of the plans of the department in trying to deal with some of the concerns out there in the potential development, as well, facing us in the Northwest Territories. And, as well, how the department will work with the Department of Education, Culture and Employment and the private sector. As I stated earlier, the trip to Calgary was very beneficial because we heard from a lot of the companies that are willing to do work in the Northwest Territories, and some which have signed deals now, that are willing to do their part when it comes to the training section of our residents. It just seems that one of the pieces of the puzzle, a fairly significant one, is our government. Hopefully the Minister will be able to put some emphasis on that and have some measurable outcomes as to how we can see this being done and achieved. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.