Thank you, Mr. Nitah. To the motion, The Member for Sahtu, Mr. Premier.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. It has become apparent that Members on the other side had decided yesterday amongst themselves that they were going to come away today with a specific plan of action, no matter what was said in question period. Mr. Speaker, I am kind of thrown a bit by this because I took the time during question period to assure Members that before this Cabinet took any initiative to create any new institution, to allocate new resources, particularly after receiving a very strong message in the last two Sessions of no more growth in Yellowknife, no more growth in headquarters, that we are now entertaining a motion to create a Public Service Commission.

A commission that is somehow going to help us meet all of our goals and aspirations in hiring more northern people, more aboriginal people in management, more women in management, and that the best way to do it is by setting up an independent body, giving up our power and authority to an independent board that we have no idea of how it is going to be structured or set up and mandated, that that is the way to resolve all the problems that we have discussed so far.

Mr. Speaker, that is only part of my concern. My greater concern is, are Members of the Legislature on the other side going to start dictating to the Executive what we should do without any discussion? What happened to this spirit of consensus? We offered to include it in the discussion in September. I think, it is a very valid assertion that the Members have made, that we should look at a Public Service Commission. We have offered to do that, we have agreed to do that. I thought there was some acceptance of that suggestion.

Now you are going to pre-empt the discussion in the fall, I guess. In accepting this motion, you would say you do not need to discuss it anymore, you just want to tell us what to do. It is a concern because it is not in keeping with the spirit of consensus, for the Members on the other side to meet by themselves and then unilaterally impose direction on this Cabinet without at least allowing some of us to have some discussion with Members about the merits of the motions and directions that they propose. We will not be voting on this motion. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Premier. To the motion, The Member for Mackenzie Delta, Mr. Krutko.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, this item has been around as long as I have, in terms of the whole concept of the Affirmative Action Policy itself, the hiring procedures that are in place in the government, and also the amount that was spent in the human resource area. The Minister responsible for Finance stated that there was no money attached to these transfers to these different portfolios. There were thousands, if not hundreds of thousands, of dollars passed through this House in supplementary appropriations to assist those departments in hiring human resource officers and staff.

There was a lot money spent ensuring that the departments increased their capacity to take on this new workload. We see that in the increases in the Department of the Executive and the Financial Management Board Secretariat. In the whole area, when it comes to ensuring that the Affirmative Action Policy is being carried out, what do we see? Money is being lapsed, so a lot of people are not being trained so they can take on these positions. The same thing applies in regard to ensuring that we have a reflective workforce within this government.

I think we talk about working in partnership with the aboriginal people and First Nations, as they make 50 percent of the population. The government does not reflect that, yet we go around telling the industry and government that you have to sign an agreement to ensure that you will have so many Northerners working in the different sectors. As a government we do not practice that. I, for one, feel that this is the first step to make sure that we do fulfill those obligations that are in place in the policies of this government.

I fully support this initiative, and we have to somehow take the next step and not see dollars being lapsed because they are not being used for training. I support this motion, and ask my colleagues to do so. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Krutko. To the motion. The Member for Yellowknife South, Mr. Bell.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I am standing here today to tell you that I will certainly be supporting this motion. I have to say, one of the hardest things for me in the early stages of my career has been having people coming into my office and talk about how they felt they were really shafted out of a job or did not get fair treatment. It has been something that has been very difficult for me to deal with. What is even more difficult is that I have not been able to recommend that they seek recourse because I did not know where to send them and they did not know where to go. They were concerned about being blacklisted, and I think that, at times, can be a fair concern.

I do not think that, as I mentioned, is a workable situation. Mr. Handley asked if we want to give away our ability to handle human resources, and he asked the question, "Can a Public Service Commission do a better job?"

I would like to ask you how they could possibly do a worse job. Mr. Nitah has let us know here today that aboriginal people in management has increased from eight percent to a not exactly staggering 14 percent. Ms. Lee indicated that women in management in the Department of Resources, Wildlife and Economic Development is something like 0.8 percent.

I think there are other concerns. We have 30 percent of appeals being upheld, and I think we are only seeing the beginning. I think a lot of people do not appeal because they fear reprisal. Additionally, I think what we are talking about here is not a full-blown Department of Personnel. We are not talking about huge bureaucracy and creating more jobs in Yellowknife. We are talking about a watchdog. A watchdog that would report to everybody in this House and when we set the mandate, we will decide how the Public Service Commission is going to act and going to represent the people of the Northwest Territories, and Government of the NWT employees.

I think we are essentially throwing our hands up here and saying the time for talking is over. We would like to act. The government would like to wait until the fall to discuss this and I can appreciate that. Mr. Kakfwi said he has to take the time for due diligence. This is a public government, this is not a private corporation. But I think the people on this side of the House are saying we are fed up. Our constituents are fed up. and they would like to see some action. That is why we have taken this course. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you, Mr. Bell. To the motion. The Chair recognizes the Member for Frame Lake, Mr. Dent.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, we have heard from people who have spoken on this side of the House who said, "We believe that an independent body is needed." We have heard from the other side that this moves things at an arms-length from this House. Mr. Speaker, what that means is that political interference is removed. As you know, this House sets policy. An independent body would have to follow the policy set in place by this House. What we are saying is that we believe we need an independent agency to be accountable for enforcing the policies that are set by this House.

Mr. Speaker, we have heard about the issues of costs. If, in fact, no funds were moved to departments, and I believe that Mr. Krutko was right that supplementary funds were approved, but if no funds were moved to departments, then that means that they had to take more money out of programs and services to put into human resources. And as I mentioned earlier, we have seen a dramatic increase in the numbers of people performing those functions. That means we are spending way more than what we were for far fewer people.

There is no way that you could not find a way to build a Public Service Commission into this process, bring some equity and fairness or ensure equity and fairness across government, and consistent application of our policies, and not find ways to economize. Mr. Handley urged us to slow down. Mr. Speaker, two days ago he was in this House and in a new pair of running shoes, urging us to be quick on our feet, ready to take advantage of opportunities.

Now, we are talking about plodding along. There was a suggestion I believe Mr. Handley made, that we were pushing the envelope by the dates that we had proposed. It seems strange to me that just yesterday Mr. Handley was defending those same target dates for a tax. This tax was not one that has been discussed by governments for years. It was not even one that had been discussed by Members for years.

So, maybe governments have not talked about a Public Service Commission for years, but Members have. The Minister is right. We have heard from our constituents, the consultation has taken place, and it is time to move on. Let us get this process going and deal with any problems that crop up as the bill is drafted. Let us see some action start, and start now. Thank you, Mr. Speaker. As I said earlier, I request a recorded vote.

-- Applause

Thank you. Debate has ended. Question has been called. A recorded vote has been requested. All those in favour, please signify by standing.

Thank you. All of those opposed, please signify by standing. All those abstaining, please signify by standing.

Thank you. The results of the recorded vote are: in favour, 11; against, zero; abstentions, six. The motion is carried.

-- Applause

Item 17, motions. Item 18, first reading of bills. The honourable Member for Weledeh, Mr. Handley.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I move, seconded by the honourable Member for Inuvik Twin Lakes that Bill 2, Write-off of Debts Act, 2000-2001 be read for the first time. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you, Mr. Handley. The motion is in order. All those in favour? All those opposed? Thank you. The motion is carried. Bill 2, Write-off of Debts Act, 2000-2001 has had first reading.

Item 18, first reading of bills. The honourable Member for Weledeh, Mr. Handley.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I move, seconded by the honourable Member for Hay River South that Bill 3, Forgiveness of Debts Act, 2000-2001 be read for the first time. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you, Mr. Handley. The motion is in order. All those in favour? All those opposed? Thank you. The motion is carried. Bill 3, Forgiveness of Debts Act, 2000-2001 has had first reading.

Item 18, first reading of bills. The honourable Member for Weledeh, Mr. Handley.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I move, seconded by the honourable Member for Hay River South that Bill 4, An Act to Amend the Workers' Compensation Act, 2000-2001 be read for the first time. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you, Mr. Handley. The motion is in order. All those in favour? All those opposed? Thank you. The motion is carried. Bill 4, An Act to Amend the Workers' Compensation Act, 2000-2001 has had first reading.

Item 18, first reading of bills. The honourable Member for Weledeh, Mr. Handley.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I move, seconded by the honourable Member for Hay River South that Bill 5, An Act to Amend the Workers' Compensation Act, No. 2 be read for the first time. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you, Mr. Handley. The motion is in order. All those in favour? All those opposed? Thank you. The motion is carried. Bill 5, An Act to Amend the Workers' Compensation Act, No. 2 has had first reading.

Item 18, first reading of bills. The honourable Member for Hay River South, Mrs. Groenewegen.

Thank you, Mrs. Groenewegen. The motion is in order. All those in favour? All those opposed? Thank you. The motion is carried. Bill 6, An Act to Amend the Nursing Profession Act has had first reading.

Item 18, first reading of bills. Item 19, second reading of bills. Item 20, consideration in committee of the whole of bills and other matters. Bill 1, Appropriations Act, 2000-2001; Committee Report 1-14(3), Standing Committee on Accountability and Oversight Review of 2000-2003 Business Plan and 2000-2001 Main Estimates; Committee Report 2-14(3), Standing Committee on Governance and Economic Development Review of the 2000-2003 Business Plan and 2000-2001 Main Estimates; and Committee Report 3-14(3), Standing Committee on Social Programs Review of the 2000-20003 Business Plan and 2000-2001 Main Estimates, with Mr. Krutko in the Chair.