This is page numbers 295 - 364 of the Hansard for the 14th Assembly, 3rd Session. The original version can be accessed on the Legislative Assembly's website or by contacting the Legislative Assembly Library. The word of the day was communities.

Topics

Recommendation 1
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Bill Braden

Bill Braden Great Slave

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, I am working from an assumption that in existing land use law, there are provisions against unauthorized use or occupancy. What I am curious about is where this kind of thing is going on now, I appreciate the department has some staff shortages there, but when the department says it is consulting with aboriginal groups and other users in the area about what to do, I am wondering if that means the department is putting on hold its responsibility to go out and look after the law of the land. What is the status here? Are we putting something on hold? Are we actively changing something here? Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Recommendation 1
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Braden. Mr. Antoine.

Recommendation 1
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Jim Antoine Nahendeh

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, I think the situation was in abeyance. I think with the initial initiative we have undertaken, I would like to think we are initiating the beginning of the course of action. The correspondence that went out asked for some feedback by June 30. With that, we will determine what to do from there. Thank you.

Recommendation 1
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Antoine. Mr. Krutko.

Recommendation 1
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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David Krutko

David Krutko Mackenzie Delta

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. In regard to a matter I raised about Aklavik and how the government comes up with these assessments, because there have been some real increases in a lot of our small communities for the value of land in which people's assessments have jumped drastically in regard to how much land there was five years ago to where in the last number of years, there was a drastic increase in the actual value of these properties.

In doing the assessment, did you have an independent assessor do these property valuations or was it done in-house?

Recommendation 1
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 347

The Chair

The Chair Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Krutko. Mr. Antoine.

Recommendation 1
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Jim Antoine Nahendeh

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. The property assessment is done every ten years. I am told that over ten years ago, when the property was last done, the property was quite under-valued at that time.

The value of the land with improvements, roads and other infrastructure, has increased. The assessment was done last year by staff as well as independent assessors. It was a combination of both. It is done through an accepted assessment and valuation process. Thank you.

Recommendation 1
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 347

The Chair

The Chair Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Antoine. Mr. Krutko.

Recommendation 1
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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David Krutko

David Krutko Mackenzie Delta

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Can the Minister tell me why there has been such a major increase in property values in communities like Aklavik?

Recommendation 1
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Krutko. Mr. Antoine.

Recommendation 1
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Jim Antoine Nahendeh

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I will ask the deputy minister to reply to that. Thank you.

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Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Antoine. Mr. Murray.

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Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Murray

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. The last general assessment was done back in the 1980s. There have been no reassessments done over the last ten years of any significance. What the assessment process tries to do is take a look at the costs of developing those lands and set a value to that.

I think part of the issue is the fact that costs have gone up over the ten years, not to the extent as...but I think also the values that were in place ten years ago, I know in some cases lots were valued at $1,000 or $2,000. Today, the costs of developing those lands is considerably higher. The assessment process tries to set a value to that. I might also add that the Board of Revision is established. Their responsibility is to review assessments. If they think our staff was wrong, they have to go and defend their assessments. If they think their assessments are too high, we told them to change them. That is why there is an independent process to review that, to ensure the system is as open as it can be. Thank you.

Recommendation 1
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 347

The Chair

The Chair Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Murray. Mr. Krutko.

Recommendation 1
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 347

David Krutko

David Krutko Mackenzie Delta

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Has the department tried to work with the communities to find a comparable solution to this problem? I for one do not feel that the price of land above the Arctic Circle is worth anything close to what the value of land is south of the lake around Yellowknife or Fort Simpson or Hay River. Why is it that they seem to fall within the same value?

Recommendation 1
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Krutko. Mr. Murray.

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Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Murray

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. In terms of the actual price of the land in the community of Aklavik, I think the price of a lot is around $10,000 to purchase. That does not come close to cover the true development costs, depending on the community, and the cost of developing that land.

One of the policies that is being looked at is the Land Pricing Policy. It is part of a land administration review. There is a rather complex formula for pricing land based on its development costs today. We need to have a look at that to see if that is a fair system and a system that sets a proper value for land that is affordable for people. Thank you.

Recommendation 1
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Murray. Mr. Lafferty.

Recommendation 1
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Leon Lafferty North Slave

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. On the increase in property assessments, Mr. Murray said because of the development and property value, an assessment has not been done since the 80s. In some of the communities, there has been no change since the 80s. The roads have never been upgraded and no highways are being installed. The service has not changed. The water trucks are still the same. Maybe they are developing land in other areas, but those lands are developed and the people using those lands are paying for it through their mortgages.

I am wondering, when they do assessments, they do not go to the communities and see the homeowners and talk to them about what they think the property value is. I do not know who did the assessments in my region, but the people are not happy. Some of them have appealed in May and June of last year and have not yet received a response. Some elders are being assessed. I am wondering if they have consulted with the residents, or do they look on the outside and have a figure for the different sizes of property? How did they do it, and why did they not respond to the appeals? Thank you.

Recommendation 1
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 348

The Chair

The Chair Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Lafferty. Mr. Murray.

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Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Murray

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. The method of doing the assessments is set in legislation and regulations. It is a fairly rigid system that has been in place in the North for at least ten years, if not longer. I do not know exactly the last time it was redone.

It is a very rigid system. It does not involve going to the communities and meeting with the residents. That is not part of the process that was carried out in 1998 or 1999 to my knowledge. It is one of the areas that is in need of review and consideration as to whether or not it is meeting the goals of the government and the communities.

You are correct. There was no consultation with the communities at all.

Recommendation 1
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair Paul Delorey

Thank you. Mr. Lafferty.

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Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Leon Lafferty North Slave

I am wondering, if they did not go to the communities, how do they know there is still property there? How do they know when they send you a bill, perhaps the house burnt down and is not there anymore. It is hard to do an assessment sitting in a six storey building in Yellowknife. Thank you.

Recommendation 1
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Lafferty. Mr. Antoine.

Recommendation 1
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Jim Antoine Nahendeh

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, the assessment is under the Property Assessment and Taxation Act. It is a legislation of this Legislative Assembly. In the Act, it spells out how to carry out the work and what to do. The property assessment includes a number of things.

It includes conducting a property assessment. They physically go to every... they did not this time, but they were supposed to. In some cases they do. The property owner in the Northwest Territories pay property taxes to the assessed values. I think the deputy minister already went through the list, but again, the assessment is based on the value of the physical and real property. They look at the log and try to determine what it is worth.

They also try to include the improvements, such as water services or sewer, or electrical services. They also look at the building construction. If it is residential and there are improvements. As well, the market value of the property in the community.

They also look at the development costs of the land. If you were to develop the land at the time, they try to determine what it would cost to develop the lot. They also try to consider other land costs in the same area. There is a way that they are supposed to determine that.

The property assessments have gone up quite a bit, between 300 to 400 percent. I think that is what is causing a lot of concern in the communities in the Northwest Territories. There is a board that reviews where individuals can go to put in their complaint.

The honourable Member also mentioned that people have put in a complaint to the Board of Revision last year and may not have heard back. That is something that we have to check on. We do not have that information right now. We will see who complained last year and did not receive a response.

The actual taxation in MACA assessed property for all of the Northwest Territories communities, except the city of Yellowknife, which assesses and collects their own taxes. In the other communities, non-taxed based communities, MACA assessed the property and the Department of Finance sends out the tax notices and collects the taxes.

The tax rate is set by the Department of Finance. I am told if the assessment is really high, it does not mean that the taxes will be high. They are trying to balance it off. Perhaps I could be corrected here. We are responsible for the assessment, and Finance is responsible for the actual tax rate. I am told that even though the property may go up, it does not mean that the taxes go up equivalently. We are trying to maintain the same level. Thank you.