Mr. Antoine.

Thank you, Mr. Antoine. Mr. Delorey.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, this department is one that I have had a considerable amount of interest in since we came here and took part in this government. One of the big things that was brought to my attention shortly after I was elected, the town representatives made it known to me that one of Hay River's biggest problems was the level of funding through the block-funding agreement. I know the Minister stated he thought block-funding was a fairly new system in this government. I do not expect him to restate everything he just said, but I would be remiss if I did not give my feelings on this issue.

Hay River feels they did not agree with the block-funding formula when it was put in, simply because of the level they were at, with no capital projects on the go at that time. Other communities did have, and that was taken into consideration in the amount of money they received through the block-funding agreement. Hay River has always been under the impression that they were under-funded. They have stood by that all along, and they are still of that opinion. I am glad to see the department is taking steps to address that situation and go into some kind of study on the block-funding agreement.

On that one area, one question I would have, seeing as there has been a major problem with the funding cuts that have come along and at the time they have come along. The year-ends do not coincide with the municipalities. The block cuts are affecting the tax-based municipalities at this particular time.

In this review of the block-funding process, when does the department think they would have some answers and some indication as to what the block-funding levels are going to be for next year? Is it going to be another situation where tax-based municipalities will not know when they are setting their budgets how much money they are going to have, or that they are going to be looking at another cut? I would hope with the study, the department would be able to give some positive news to the municipality and do it in a timely fashion so it helps the municipalities plan for their upcoming year.

Before I go on, I would just like to get an indication from the department how they see that developing. How long is their strategy going to take to revisit the funding for the tax-based municipalities and what their funding amounts will be like?

Thank you, Mr. Delorey. Mr. Antoine.

Thank you, Mr. Antoine. Mr. Delorey.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. One of the areas that affects considerably is the ability for the tax-based municipalities to deliver their programs. It is nice for us to say as a government that we are doing all kinds of things to get ready for oil and gas and future developments, and at the same time provide the same level of programs we are giving to our people.

Unfortunately, at the tax-based municipalities level, when they are suffering cuts, it is hard for them to continue that same level of program delivery. I know Hay River is struggling pretty bad as far as capital projects are concerned. They have just done a study for increased recreation facilities. The only way they can see possibly ever being able to accomplish that is they put out a study and a proposal to user groups. These are mostly non-profit organizations. If they can raise $2 million in the next two years, they figure that will put them close enough in their funding to go to a plebiscite to see if the ratepayers of Hay River would eat up the rest to allow them to borrow the money, but that would still mean close to a 15 point increase in their taxes.

Personally, having been involved in a number of non-profit organizations and sport bodies, it is a pretty big wish to try to raise $2 million in two years out of a community the size of Hay River and still try to maintain their own programs they have going on at the same time.

From my past experience, they have a hard time surviving, let alone trying to raise an extra $2 million. That is definitely a concern.

Another big area there is a problem in the Hay River area with Commissioner's lands, lands that are controlled by the department. Being adjacent to lands that belong to, although they are in the jurisdiction of Hay River, how they are taxed and the process businesses have to go through to locate on Commissioner's lands and how that affects the tax-based municipalities. I heard the department say that they are looking at that area as well and how they could address that problem.

If I could, I would like to ask the department what they have in mind for that.

Thank you, Mr. Delorey. Mr. Antoine.

Mr. Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. One of the things that I mentioned in the House before when it came to tax-based communities and how they administer their funds, the Minister mentioned in his opening remarks building strong, self-reliant communities. I think that when they do their study of communities, they should look at how well the administration of those funds are being handled and we make sure that we are not penalizing communities that are doing a really good job with their funds. Just because they are living within their means does not mean they should be cut or that they should not be looked at as much as other communities for getting extra funding. It is a little frustrating. I know that Hay River had great hopes on getting some extra funds for that Smart Communities Project, but that went to Yellowknife, and rightfully so. They must have had a good proposal as well. I do not think they automatically gave it to Yellowknife.

When you see those kinds of funds going to a community and trying to compete with them, it is kind of tough. Basically, I would like to see the department look at communities, and if they are doing a good job rewarding them, or definitely take that into consideration when they look at their block funding amounts. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Next on the list I have Mr. Braden, and Mr. Bell.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. As with a number of other departments, I was pleased to see references in the Department of Municipal and Community Affairs' business plan and in the Minister's opening remarks about compliance and follow through in those plans to this Assembly's vision, Towards a Better Tomorrow. Generally, the programs that the department is outlining certainly go to support that. In fact, this department perhaps more than most, has a key function toward the four key priorities that we outlined in that vision.

Some of my colleagues and the Minister have already addressed the area of accountability, and how this relationship will be built between this government and the community partners. Specifically on page 3 of the Minister's comments, Mr. Chair, he said to support this the Department of Municipal and Community Affairs is focusing on community development and on providing advice and support instead of control. I guess it prompts a bit of a question then that if there is a philosophical shift from the department, rather than reigning communities in and keeping a lid on them. There is more of a sense of nurturing and guidance.

The legislative proposals, which I think my colleague Mr. Miltenberger referred to and the Minister answered in some detail, legislative changes that will enhance the accountability of community governments to their own residents. I fully support that, that the people who are paying the taxes should indeed hold their own officials to the greatest account.

The aspect, though, of the changes that are coming down the pipe through land claims, self-government negotiations, really from my point of view, are quite an unknown factor. I wanted to ask the Minister to explore that a bit more. Right now, there is not a lot of certainty or predictability of what is going to happen, how is the department preparing itself and our community partners in managing this inevitable change in our government system? Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Thank you, Mr. Braden. Mr. Antoine.

Thank you, Mr. Minister. Mr. Braden.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. It is good we have a caring, new-age kind of department coming up here. I support that approach. Like my colleagues, I have other more specific questions. I will try to hold them to the appropriate place.

Another area I think is somewhat related to communities is the issue of the Intergovernmental Forum, Mr. Chairman, and the involvement of the municipal governments at some point in that process.

We have seen considerable debate over the last couple of Sessions on that issue.

I am sympathetic with the Minister's position on it, in that there is a time for involving the municipal governments. It is not right now. There are still foundations to be built between the federal, territorial, and aboriginal levels of government, but I am also very concerned that, at some point, and for the reasons that we were just talking about, Mr. Chairman, municipal governments will need to be familiar, be seasoned, and be recognized at certain points and certain tables in that process.

I would like to ask the Minister, while he has declared very firmly that it is not the appropriate time right now to bring the municipal governments in as a fourth and equal partner, what kind of protocols or what kind of process or information flow is the department setting up to at least be able to brief the municipalities, help them become familiar with what is going on, and satisfy that very clear urge that we have heard from, at least the city of Yellowknife and I think from the Association of Municipalities, not to be left out completely from this process? Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Braden. Mr. Antoine.

Thank you, Mr. Antoine. General comments. We are still on page 4-9, Municipal and Community Affairs directorate, operations expense, total operations expense, $3,711,000. Mr. Miltenberger.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Under this particular activity, I would like to ask the Minister if he could speak to the issue of the proposed legislative changes and outline some of the highlights of the changes. Please provide some specific examples on how they are going to meet the goals laid out in his opening comments. Thank you.