Good morning, colleagues. Bonjour. Item 2, Ministers' statements. The honourable Minister responsible for the Department of Health and Social Services, Mrs. Groenewegen.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, as Members of this Legislature know, a resident of Fort McPherson died from complications arising from tuberculosis in July, 2000.

I would first like to express my sincere condolences to the family. They have raised a number of questions and concerns about the death of their loved one, and they deserve answers.

Shortly after being advised of this death, the chief medical health officer recommended an independent review of this case, as well as the overall delivery of TB programming in the Northwest Territories. We wanted to know what actions were taken to address the medical care of this individual and whether there were improvements or changes that needed to be made to prevent such a tragedy from happening again.

This independent review was led by Dr. Anne Fanning, a respected international expert on TB. Dr. Fanning's final report is expected next week and I look forward to receiving her recommendations. I will make copies of the terms of reference for the review available to all MLAs.

In addition, I have recently contacted the chief coroner to request an independent investigation under the Coroner's Act. This request is in response to the needs of the family members who wish to have their questions answered by an individual who is independent of the health and social services system.

I want to clarify to Members that the scope of the coroner's investigation will include the cause of death and circumstances surrounding this death. Following this initial investigation, the coroner is empowered to conduct, through a coroner's inquest, further investigation if he feels this is warranted. This inquest is a formal legal proceeding that involves witnesses and a jury, and that is open to the public.

The coroner's investigation complements the review done by Dr. Fanning. This will provide us with better understanding and insight into the events surrounding this tragedy, as well as how we can improve TB prevention, screening and treatment in all communities. The outcomes of both investigations will be made available to the family, the Legislative Assembly, the health and social services boards and the public.

I look forward to receiving Dr. Fanning's final report and the results of the coroner's investigation. In the meantime, the department will continue to work closely with the Inuvik and other health and social services boards to ensure that standards in TB program delivery are met.

Mr. Speaker, I am giving this issue my utmost attention and wish to assure Members that I will continue to share as much information as possible on the outcomes of these investigations, recognizing of course that we must respect the privacy and confidentiality of the individual and family. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you, Mrs. Groenewegen. Item 2, Ministers' statements. The honourable Minister responsible for the Department of Justice, Mr. Antoine.

Thank you, Mr. Antoine. Item 2, Ministers' statements. The honourable Minister responsible for the Department of Health and Social Services, Mrs. Groenewegen.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I would like to update this Assembly and the public on some recent actions I have taken to address concerns about our health and social services system.

Concerns about the sustainability of the health care system are constantly in the news these days, not just in the Northwest Territories, but across Canada and internationally. There are many external pressures on our system, pressures like the shortage of doctors, nurses and other medical personnel, the increasing costs of pharmaceuticals and new technologies and the health challenges presented by an aging population, to name but a few.

All of these issues have a direct impact on our Northwest Territories system, but we also have some concerns that are closer to home. Since I assumed the Health and Social Services portfolio just over a year ago, I have been increasingly concerned with a number of problems that have been brought to my attention by the department, by health and social services boards, by members of the health and social services professional community, and by Members of the Legislative Assembly.

Mr. Speaker, I would like to outline some of the issues that are challenging our system.

• • We have a very complex, fragmented system with multiple boards serving the needs of our 42,000 residents. This results in duplication, overlap and the loss of economies of scale.
• • Accountability relationships are also fragmented. The separation of the legislative and policy responsibility from operational functions makes it very difficult to enforce standards of care.
• • Significant downsizing in the department over the past years by previous governments has eroded our capacity to monitor and enforce standards, and provide administrative and clinical leadership and oversight.
• • An increasing number of health and social services boards are running operating deficits, yet are not able to provide us with accurate and timely financial information.
• • Concerns have been raised about the capacity of some boards to handle complex administration functions such as pay and benefits.
• • Finally, as you are all aware, the question has been raised repeatedly about whether the current structure of nine health and social services boards is the most effective and efficient approach. This issue was highlighted as a priority for action in the report of the Minister's Forum on Health and Social Services just over a year ago.

In addition to these financial and administrative issues, there are pressing concerns about the delivery of core health and social services programs. For a number of reasons, some of our health and social services boards are having great difficulty delivering all of the core programs for which they are funded and some programs are not always being delivered to standard.

I do not take these concerns lightly. As Minister, I cannot ignore concerns about the quality of service delivery, for which I am ultimately accountable. Nor can I ask this Assembly to approve budgets or supplementary appropriations if expenditure requirements cannot be accurately identified.

Mr Speaker, these concerns are not new, and over the past two years we have taken some pro-active steps to address them. Accountability requirements for boards have been strengthened, roles and responsibilities have been clarified and a business planning cycle has been introduced for the boards.

Given the increasing number of boards with deficits last year, however, it was clear that immediate action was required, and I have taken action.

• • Last fall, I requested the territorial Audit Bureau conduct an audit on the pay and benefits function in selected health and social services boards. Those audits are underway and the first report is expected in a few weeks. As a result of the initial audit findings and an agreement between the department and the board, pay and benefits authorities have been transferred to the Financial Management Board Secretariat.
• • In December, I contracted a consulting firm with a proven track record in the field of health care governance and administration to undertake a system-wide review. The review is focusing on four key areas: governance structures, accountability, service delivery and financing. One component of the review is an operational audit on the finance and management function in all health and social services. I have asked the consulting team to provide not only a detailed report on these functions but also practical, concrete recommendations for needed changes to our health and social service system, including recommendations on how the department needs to change its structure and operations to effectively support the system. This report will be completed by the end of June.
• • In December, I established a new clinical oversight function within the department under the direction of the newly appointed assistant deputy minister for population health and clinical services. This will allow the department to provide clinical leadership and more direct support and supervision to boards in clinical service delivery. We have already initiated clinical audits in two boards where problems have been identified.

In light of the continuing questions about board deficits, it has been suggested that I should take immediate action, even to the extent of having the department step in and take over the administrative functions from some of the boards. Mr. Speaker, my preference at this time is to continue to work with the boards to resolve these issues. I am of the view that we have very good people working in our health and social services system, but the system has some inherent flaws.

Instead of a knee-jerk, punitive approach, I would like to wait for final audit reports and recommendations from the system review and develop a well thought out action plan. That will allow us to optimize service delivery for our residents.

However, I am prepared to take action when circumstances require it and will respond appropriately to any issues requiring immediate action, as I already have in the case of the revocation of payroll authority in one of the boards.

In closing, Mr. Speaker, I would like to emphasize that although we face significant challenges, there are also many reasons to take pride in our health and social services system. We have many dedicated nurses, physicians and other staff in health and social services boards who deliver excellent care, often under difficult conditions, giving many hours beyond what would normally be expected of them. We have caring and committed trustees on all our boards. We have dedicated and experienced staff in our department.

Mr. Speaker, we all have the same objective -- to take whatever steps are necessary to ensure that our health and social services system delivers the best possible care to all residents in every community. Although the process of identifying the problems is painful and it is tempting to lay blame, we must keep our focus on constructive solutions. I am firmly committed to seeing this process through, Mr. Speaker, and I look forward to bringing a clear plan of action to Members as quickly as possible,

In closing, I would like to thank all Members, especially those on the Standing Committee on Social Programs, for their guidance and advice as we deal with these difficult issues. It will be important for us to continue to work closely together to improve the health and social services system for all of our constituents. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

-- Applause

Thank you, Mrs. Groenewegen. Déclarations de ministre. Item 2, Ministers' statements. Item 3, Members' statements. Déclarations de députés. The honourable Member for North Slave, Mr. Lafferty.

Thank you, Mr. Lafferty. Déclarations de députés. Item 3, Members' statements. The honourable Member for Weledeh, Mr. Handley.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I would like to take this opportunity to alert Members that a Ndilo business is being featured on the Aboriginal Peoples Television Network along with two other aboriginal businesses. Deton'Cho Diamonds, owned in majority by the Deton'Cho Corporation or the Ndilo band, Nats'enelu Furs from Fort Simpson, and ADK Holdings from Fort Liard are being featured on an episode of Venturing Forth, a new program focusing on aboriginal businesses across Canada.

The episode, filmed locally by Yellowknife producer Terry Wolfe, also includes an interview with Premier Stephen Kakfwi. Venturing Forth airs at 1:00 p.m. Sunday, February 18th, and will be rebroadcast at 7:30 p.m. and again at 12:30 a.m. on February 19th.

Mr. Speaker, this program will provide national exposure to three very successful northern aboriginal businesses. I hope all Members have the opportunity to see the program. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Handley. Item 3, Members' statements. The honourable Member for Yellowknife South, Mr. Bell.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I listened yesterday with interest to Mr. Handley's budget speech. There were some very encouraging words. I would like to take a minute to point out some of my concerns about the consistency of some of the GNWT programs that we are talking about rolling out.

We know the Minister is undergoing a review of BIP. He wants to look at levelling the playing field for northern business to make sure we are on competitive footing with southern business. I applaud him for this. We know that Alberta's tax rate is dropping to three percent, Ontario is going to four percent, and even British Columbia is currently at four-and-a-half percent. The Northwest Territories is currently sitting at five percent. This is no longer competitive. Clearly we have to do something for northern business.

On one hand, we are looking to do something about this, as the Minister indicates in the review of BIP. On the other hand, he is now talking about a toll on commercial trucking, which will increase the cost to northern businesses of doing business in the North. Certainly some of that will be passed on to the consumers, but there are situations where businesses cannot simply pass the costs on and will be forced to eat them.

When we look at programs targeted to help the general public deal with the high cost of heating their homes, we have announced that we will be rebating some money to these people to offset the cost of fuel. That is a great idea, Mr. Speaker, but on the other hand, the tolls we are talking about implementing on commercial trucking will increase the cost of heating our homes in the North. I certainly hope the tax credit will more than offset this increase.

I am sensitive about not being too critical. Certainly we want to see highway upgrades. The only point I would like to make, Mr. Speaker, is that we are going to need to see detail before endorsing these programs.

We have been talking in this House for over a year now about...Mr. Miltenberger in fact mentioned yesterday that he has been talking for five years about the chip seal on Highway No. 5. I think we all realize that we need to see our highway infrastructure upgraded.

I think if you were to tell me that we are going to upgrade our highways but the Minister is going to come and knock on our door cap in hand and tell our families to cobble together $5,000 each to pave our roads, and say to the son who shows up at the door, "Run to the couch and check in between the cushions, because I think your dad lost some loose change in there and we are going to use that to pave these roads." I do not think many of our constituents would find this acceptable.

It is important that we look at upgrading our infrastructure, but it will be equally important how we do it. Mr. Speaker, I seek unanimous consent to conclude my statement.

Thank you, Mr. Bell. The honourable Member for Yellowknife South is seeking unanimous consent to conclude his statement. Are there any nays? There are no nays. You may continue, Mr. Bell.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. We are also currently struggling to get mine employees to move north. If we are talking about anything that is going to increase the consumer price index in the North, we have to be careful. We cannot do anything to make it even more difficult.

As I said, I am sensitive about being too critical. The Premier in the past has often said to this side of the House, "Listen, you want these certain programs. You are quick to criticize, but not very quick to urge us on and congratulate us when we do initiate good programs." I think, Mr. Speaker, I would liken it to possibly having a 23-year old son who comes home one day after lying around the couch playing video games for four years telling me he has a job. I think everybody would be excited and happy, but you would want to make sure your son was not sticking up convenience stores and snatching purses, Mr. Speaker.

I am concerned that we need to see detail from this government. If our intent is to, in a roundabout way, get royalties from industry, is this how we are going to go about doing it? What about long-term fixed contracts for northern businesses with these mines? Mr. Speaker, it is highly possible that they are going to have to eat the cost of these transportation increases.

The other day, we were reminiscing about names we had called the Finance Minister from this side of the House. I hope we do not have to add stick-up artist and purse snatcher. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you, Mr. Bell. Déclarations de députés. Item 3, Members' statements. The honourable Member for Thebacha, Mr. Miltenberger

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, today I would like to briefly raise some concerns about the Workers' Compensation Board. During the 13th Assembly, there was intense debate about what should happen with NTPC and the Workers' Compensation Board. I have always been and still remain a proponent that we should have our own Workers' Compensation Board and we should have our own NTPC -- which, in fact, is going to happen -- and that they should be split.

My concern, Mr. Speaker, is that the Workers' Compensation Board is going to remain as one organization, one institution between Nunavut and the Northwest Territories. I do not think this is in the best interest of the Northwest Territories.

The other concern I have is that in the Northwest Territories, the government is sitting by and letting Nunavut decide the future of our institution. It was Nunavut who decided to split NTPC, not this government. It was Nunavut who has now decided that they do not want to split the Workers' Compensation Board, and we are docilely going along with that particular direction, which I do not think is in our long-term best interests.

I would hope that this government would in fact take a critical look at what is in the best interest of the Northwest Territories. I know from personal experience of trying to deal with a board that overlaps in the two Territories is very difficult. There are different agendas, different political realities. It is very difficult and it is impossible to try to get together to make any meaningful decisions. There is so much compromise and watering things down that we do not get what we want in the end anyway.

I would have no problem if we split the Workers' Compensation Board, Mr. Speaker, if in fact we provide it as a contract basis service to our colleagues from Nunavut. I would hope that as part of this broad legislative review that is going to be undertaken and looking at updating the legislation for the Workers' Compensation Board, that this will be one of the issues that is put on the table.

Finally, Mr. Speaker, on this particular issue, I was disappointed to see that all of the Northwest Territories representatives for this very important review of legislation are all based in Yellowknife. While I recognize the realities of having labour and business on this particular panel, there is life outside of the capital. In the hinterland, there are many people who are concerned about this particular piece of legislation.

Mr. Speaker, today during question period, I will be asking the Minister responsible for the Workers' Compensation Board why we do not split the Workers' Compensation Board and why we are letting Nunavut set the direction for this Territory. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

-- Applause

Thank you, Mr. Miltenberger. Item 3, Members' statements. Déclarations de députés. The honourable Member for Great Slave, Mr. Braden.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, on January 16th, I was pleased, along with the Member for Yellowknife Frame Lake, Mr. Dent, to host a community environmental information meeting attended by close to 60 concerned area residents. The issue was arsenic contamination in the Yellowknife area.

Yellowknife, Mr. Speaker, has a 60-year gold mining history. We have enjoyed the economic benefits and endured the environmental and social costs of this mining heritage. In the case of the Rat Lake area in my constituency, the mining activity on the Con lease dates back some 60 years.

At the public meeting, Mr. Speaker, we heard excellent presentations from the GNWT staff, including Municipal and Community Affairs, Health and Social Services, environmental health branch; the mining company, Miramar; and the Department of Indian Affairs and Northern Development. Resources, Wildlife and Economic Development also contributed to the planning and the meeting.

We learned that in the Yellowknife area, there is a level of naturally occurring arsenic. To this, Mr. Speaker, we have added arsenic trioxide, a deadly toxin produced by the hazardous product of mining. Our citizens are concerned about the potential danger of arsenic levels in the soils and water of Yellowknife.

Constituents have expressed many concerns, and some of them are summarized as: soil remediation solutions around private dwellings in the area; cancer rates in Yellowknife; integrated land-use planning and land-use administration; concern for the public health; standards for clean-up and standards for soil remediation; and to what extent will the public be consulted in the future.

Mr. Speaker, the Yellowknife Arsenic Soils Remediation Committee is a coalition of all levels of government, mining and aboriginal groups. They are playing a key role. I would like to acknowledge the leadership demonstrated by this committee and the Stanton Regional Health Board. This committee has announced that it is proceeding with an assessment study to determine levels of risk to public health. It is expected later this year. It will also help develop guidelines for remediation and arsenic clean-up standards for the whole Yellowknife area.

We are all cognizant, Mr. Speaker, of our need to reclaim the environment where there have been harmful operations. The federal government clearly has a significant environmental responsibility to live up to and this government must continue to press the federal government to live up to these obligations.

-- Applause

Thank you, Mr. Braden. I am not sure whether you got your thank you in there. I pressed the priority button, as your time had expired. However, you just made it under the wire. Item 3, Members' statements. The honourable Member for Hay River North, Mr. Delorey.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, today in the aftermath of our Finance Minister's bold and ambitious budget in which he announced spending the likes of which we have not seen for a long time, I want to draw some attention to a sector of our society that probably had little to celebrate from what they heard.

I refer, Mr. Speaker, to our residents with disabilities. The difficulty and frustration these people go through just trying to make ends meet is deplorable. As legislators, we should be ashamed for not responding to their needs. Mr. Speaker, if any of them were listening yesterday, they may have gotten momentarily excited when Mr. Handley announced $300,000 to deliver specialized programs and services to persons with disabilities.

Then he went on to say that amount was also for seniors, for persons in correctional institutions and to monitor, report and promote the use of plain language within government.

Mr. Speaker, a small percentage of our disabled -- less than five percent, according to statistics -- are trying desperately to retain their own homes, thereby holding on to some sense of independence and dignity. In the face of rising costs, especially in heating fuels, this has become impossible for some. They are resigned to the fact, Mr. Speaker, that they must live in poverty.

In January, the Northwest Territories Council for Disabled Persons held a conference as a follow-up to the Northwest Territories needs assessment report, Living with Disability, Living with Dignity. This conference was attended by more than 160 people impacted by disability, and they were from almost every community in the Northwest Territories.

Mr. Speaker, many of the participants have written a personal letter to our Premier expressing the problems and frustrations they experience every day. I hope, Mr. Speaker, that our Premier will take those letters seriously and borrow a line from the budget: it is time to invest now so that they too can have a better tomorrow. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

-- Applause

Thank you, Mr. Delorey. Déclarations de députés. Item 3, Members' statements. The honourable Member for Inuvik Boot Lake, Mr. Roland.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, seeing as how it is Friday, I am going to take a light-hearted approach to my Member's statement. Mr. Speaker, after listening to the Premier's speech in January to the public, then listening to the Finance Minister's budget address, the phrase made famous by Timon and Pumbaa from the Disney movie The Lion King, Hakuna Matata, comes to mind. For those not familiar with the movie, similar meaning is found in the Bobby McFerrin song, Don't Worry, Be Happy.

Mr. Speaker, all looks rosy from this budget address.

-- Applause

The Finance Minister paints a picture that we must move forward. As my colleague Mr. Delorey said, we have seen unprecedented expenditures. As it looks, and as the people have heard, Mr. Speaker, we must look forward to a prosperous new year.

With that, Mr. Speaker, I look forward to seeing the Finance Minister use the phrase Hakuna Matata a little more often. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

-- Applause

Thank you, Mr. Roland. Thank you for your translations. Our Swahili translator is not here today, so...

-- Laughter

Item 3, Members' statements. The honourable Member for Mackenzie Delta, Mr. Krutko.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, on February 8, 2001, the community of Tsiigehtchic in my riding celebrated the official opening of the new seniors unit along with the Paul Nidtchie School. It opened last fall, but the official opening only took place in February.

We had the opportunity, along with the chief, Mr. Peter Ross, the Minister responsible for the NWT Housing Corporation, Mr. Allen, and an elder, Pierre Benoit, who is a resident of the seniors unit, who cut the ribbon to make the opening of the seniors unit official. At that time, Mr. Benoit gave us a tour of his facility. It definitely is a unit that feels homely, open and also gives the seniors the respect that they deserve. In Mr. Benoit's words, he stated: "I never dreamed I would end up in a unit such as this, which is so beautiful and so homely."

We moved on to the Paul Nidtchie School, where there was another official opening with the Minister of Education, Mr. Ootes, and a young student, Charlene Blake. At the official opening of the Chief Julias School, a lot of speeches were given. People could remember back in 1948 the school that was used just until last year, which the chief and a lot of other people in the community went to. That shows you how much use we received out of that building which has now been converted to a youth and adult education centre.

From there, we went to a feast the community had hosted, and speeches and presentations were given. At that time, I made a speech to encourage the students about the importance of education. It is probably one of the most important ambitions they are going to take on in their lives. I encouraged them to continue on with their education.

With that, I would like to thank both Ministers, Mr. Allen and Mr. Ootes, as well as the community for the opportunity to officially open these buildings. Thank you.

-- Applause

Thank you, Mr. Krutko. Item 3, Members' statements. The honourable Member for Inuvik Twin Lakes, Mr. Allen.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I am pleased to share with Members of this Assembly some interesting statistics regarding the Inuvik Twin Lakes riding. These statistics were compiled in a socio-economic profile I had prepared on Inuvik Twin Lakes. The purpose of this profile is to provide both a clear view of the riding composition and its uniqueness.

Some of the interesting statistics for the Inuvik Twin Lakes riding include:

• • Nineteen percent of the households receive either employment insurance or income support, which is significantly higher than the territorial average of 8.5 percent;
• • Home ownership in Inuvik Twin Lakes is slightly above the territorial average of just below 50 percent;
• • Twenty-six percent of the households and 19.7 percent of the Inuvik Twin Lakes population appear to have made recent use of public housing;
• • The public housing population includes proportionately high numbers of those who are 65 and over, and proportionately few of those were under the age of 18;
• • Sources of income include:

1. o Hunting and trapping, which represents 22 percent;
2. o Income support, ten percent;
3. o Private sector employment, 52 percent,
4. o Public sector employment, 60 percent,
5. o Private pension benefits, 19 percent,
6. o Canada Pension Plan benefits, 10 percent, and
7. o EI benefits, 11 percent;

• • Twenty-two percent of the households indicate that hunting and trapping is a source of income or food.

In summary, the area is obviously an affluent majority in Twin Lakes, considering those who have regular employment in either the public or private sector, many of whom own their own homes. However, there is a sizeable minority consisting of between one-fifth and one-quarter of the households in the population of Twin Lakes who live in public housing or cheap rental housing, recipients of income support and those who are heavily dependant on EI benefits.

As you can see, as with other ridings in the Northwest Territories, Inuvik Twin Lakes is unique in its own right. As legislators, we must ensure that this uniqueness is recognized in all decision making. Later today, I will be tabling this document in the House. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you, Mr. Allen. Item 3, Members' statements. The honourable Member for Tu Nedhe, Mr. Nitah.

Mahsi, Mr. Nitah. Item 3, Members' statements. The honourable Member for Nahendeh, Mr. Antoine.

Mahsi, Mr. Antoine. The condolences of the House do go to the families whose members passed away, and certainly the congratulations on the longevity of the elder who celebrated her 100th birthday. Item 3, Members' statements. The honourable Member for Frame Lake, Mr. Dent.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I listened very intently this morning as the Minister of Health and Social Services presented her statement on the Health and Social Services System Action Plan. I have to say, Mr. Speaker, that I am somewhat concerned by the tone that is expressed in the Minister's statement.

I hear point after point concerns about the operations of boards; boards represent a complex, fragmented system; accountability relationships are fractured and that it is difficult to enforce standards of care. The real concern, Mr. Speaker, is that as we go through this, it seems almost like the Minister is setting the stage. She has already decided that we do not need boards and should be moving to dissolve them.

I would urge the Minister to be very cautious about that, because I think the majority of people in the North do think that boards are worthwhile. I would point to the example of the education boards and how they seem to be working quite well with the Department of Education and the Minister of Education in order to accomplish the goals that are set for them in statute and by their constituents. I think that we can achieve the same if we find a way to better support the boards.

The way this statement was laid out today would tend to indicate that we maybe should have some concern about the report that the Minister has commissioned. We have had numerous reports done for this Legislative Assembly since the 12th Assembly that I am aware of, and very seldom has the Department of Health responded to the recommendations therein. Had they responded in a timely fashion earlier, I think we would not have had some of the problems we are facing right now, which I think are largely because the support to the boards has not been provided.

I would like to say that I hope this is not a situation where the Minister has already made up her mind and is moving towards eliminating boards, because I think that boards are made up of good people. People who need support to do an important job. They do not need thinly veiled accusations of incompetence. By and large, Mr. Speaker, they are volunteers who dedicate their time.

They also need to know that they can get a timely response from the department when they propose actions to bring their board's spending in line with the limitations set by the department. They need to know they are going to get a timely response when they propose an annual budget. They need to know they are going to get a timely response when they propose an action to eliminate some of their deficit, and not a continuous amount of study and a statement from the department that no one knows what the spending is.

We cannot wait until everything is done at the end of June. Boards need to know that they are going to be supported by the Department of Health now. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

-- Applause

Thank you, Mr. Dent. Item 3, Members' statements. The honourable Member for Range Lake, Ms. Lee.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I would like to take this opportunity to congratulate and celebrate a very positive and optimistic budget delivered by the Minister of Finance yesterday. There are times in this House on this side when it feels very much like we are mired in negative energy and we cannot see what is ahead of us and all of the things that may be good.

Mr. Speaker, I realize I will have a chance to discuss the budget in more detail in our budget review and I hope to make a more detailed reply to the opening address. Mr. Speaker, I can tell you that I was on the phone all night long talking to my constituents. Once I explained the detail of some of the initiatives of the Minister in the House, the response has generally been positive. In particular, the fuel rebate and the proposal to fast-track Highway No. 3. I want to make note of the fact that this infrastructure money will go to all highways, not just Highway No. 3.

Mr. Speaker, I can also advise you that I talked to a major commercial truck operator in Yellowknife who told me that he saw a lot of good in this proposed highway spending. He is prepared to accept a slight increase in the cost of doing business that may result from the highway toll. I think he understands that this highway proposal money is an investment and not excessive spending without reason.

Mr. Speaker, the most important thing I want to state is the prominence and the attention paid to badly needed spending in social agendas. Mr. Speaker, I applaud the government for coming up with the Literacy Strategy and extra money on early child development and additional money on health care. These are very important and they are exactly the things that our constituents have been asking for. All the Members in this House have been asking for it for the past year.

Mr. Speaker, I realize we do not have enough money, but that would not be a good excuse for inaction. Mr. Speaker, I believe that this budget is about what we can collectively do for our people as an Assembly, and not about sitting on our hands and talking about not doing the things we need to do because we do not have enough money, or the big brother in Ottawa is not giving us enough.

Ms. Lee, the time allocated for your statement has expired.

Mr. Speaker, may I have unanimous consent to conclude my statement please?

Thank you, Ms. Lee. The honourable Member is seeking unanimous consent to conclude her statement. Are there any nays? There are no nays. You may conclude.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker, and thank you very much colleagues. I just want to conclude by saying that, Mr. Speaker, for at least one glorious day, before we get down to the negative part of the budget, I would like to recognize the courage and resolve displayed by the Members and the Premier for this very ambitious and bold, but at the same time very forward-looking and balanced budget. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

-- Applause

Thank you, Ms. Lee. Item 3, Members' statements. Order, please. Item 4, returns to oral questions. Item 5, recognition of visitors in the gallery. The honourable Member for Frame Lake, Mr. Dent.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I would like to recognize a constituent and a member of the Stanton Regional Hospital Board, Mr. Joe Auge.

-- Applause

Thank you, Mr. Dent. Item 5, recognition of visitors in the gallery. The honourable Member for Mackenzie Delta, Mr. Krutko.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, we cannot forget the other people in the gallery. At this time, I would like to recognize the other people who are sitting in the gallery. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

-- Applause

Thank you, Mr. Krutko. Item 5, recognition of visitors in the gallery. Item 6, oral questions. The honourable Member for North Slave, Mr. Lafferty.

Thank you, Mr. Lafferty. The honourable Minister responsible for the Department of Health and Social Services, Mrs. Groenewegen.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I think it makes a difference if the constituent has relocated on a temporary basis for medical treatment and requires just transportation to and from the hospital for that treatment, as opposed to someone who has relocated here and who lives here. Obviously, we do not provide that kind of service for residents of Yellowknife. I am not certain whether Mr. Lafferty's constituent has relocated to Yellowknife permanently or is just here on a temporary basis. Certainly for constituents who are taking advantage of the Vital Abel Boarding Home, they do receive ground transportation to and from the hospital for treatment. If alternate temporary accommodation is sought while receiving treatment, it would certainly be something that I would consider would be the cost to and from the hospital. Thank you.

Thank you, Madam Minister. Supplementary, Mr. Lafferty.

Thank you, Mr. Lafferty. The honourable Minister responsible for the Department of Health and Social Services, Mrs. Groenewegen. I am not sure whether there was a question there, but more of a clarification. I do not think a response is...Mr. Lafferty, perhaps you could phrase it in a question. Mr. Lafferty.

Yes, you did clarify that, but there was no question there. Item 6, oral questions. The honourable Member for Great Slave, Mr. Braden.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I would like to follow up on an issue my colleague, Mr. Lafferty, raised. The question is to the Minister responsible for Education, Culture and Employment. This is in regard to the decision by the income support unit to consider monies given to Dogrib beneficiaries from the BHP Impact and Benefit Agreement as income, and therefore was taken off of monthly support cheques.

I want to ask the Minister, is this issue something that is under review by the department? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you, Mr. Braden. The honourable Minister responsible for the Department of Education, Culture and Employment, Mr. Ootes.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, IBA payments, like other income that is not earned, is normally deducted off of income support payments. The regulations we apply and that are in use, and that were instituted years ago, indicates that unearned income must be deducted from income support payments. It has been our policy that IBA payments are considered unearned income. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

With regard to the question of are we looking at this particular issue, there are a number of areas in income support that I feel should be looked at. This is one area that I have asked the department to start looking at. I believe our officials are already doing some work in this end. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you, Mr. Ootes. Supplementary, Mr. Braden.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I appreciate that the department is revisiting the definition of what unearned income is. In this particular case, I would ask whether the source of this, which is very much linked to the benefits that a First Nation person may receive for activity in their area, is this something that is being looked at in a different light? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you, Mr. Braden. The honourable Minister responsible for the Department of Education, Culture and Employment, Mr. Ootes.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, as I mentioned, I have asked the department to look at a number of areas with respect to income support. The issue of impact benefit agreements is one particular area. We are in the process of looking at this particular area. It has traditionally been an issue of designating it as unearned income. As a result, it is deducted from the income support payments.

The issue is one of interpretation, I suppose, by other individuals. We are fairly clear on our position, but then it comes down to a question of policy on this, Mr. Speaker. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Minister. Supplementary, Mr. Braden.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I think this is all very constructive. I would like to further ask, in the course of this review or examination, would the Minister welcome any input from Members or from other people across the North? Is there a way we might all have some input into reassessing what I think is a very critical piece of work for a number of our constituents? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you, Mr. Braden. The honourable Minister responsible for the Department of Education, Culture and Employment, Mr. Ootes.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. As the Member can appreciate, I would like to get our own work completed first and take that initial step to review the particular issues that I feel would be worthy to look at and then bring it forward to the Members. I appreciate the Member's comments. It will have value to have some feedback on this and some input. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you, Mr. Ootes. Item 6, oral questions. The honourable Member for Thebacha, Mr. Miltenberger

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, my questions are directed to the Minister responsible for the Workers' Compensation Board and are a follow-up to my Member's statement.

Since the start of the debate, I have always supported the need to split the Workers' Compensation Board and the NTPC. To not do that will lead to administrative, legislative and, I think, political nightmares, as we have discovered with the Workers' Compensation Board as one institution for two Territories.

My question to the Minister is, will the government be seriously looking at taking a leadership role in determining the future of the Workers' Compensation Board and take the same steps that were taken with the NTPC and in fact split the Workers' Compensation Board for the benefit of the Northwest Territories? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you, Mr. Miltenberger. The honourable Minister responsible for the Workers' Compensation Board, Mr. Handley.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, in response to the Member, we are looking at that issue. For clarification, the agreement that was signed in 1999 between the Government of the Northwest Territories and the Interim Commissioner provided for negotiations if either party wanted to extend or change the current agreement. The current agreement does not run out until 2002. We are currently negotiating with Nunavut on a number of issues regarding the extension of a joint arrangement. If those negotiations are not successful, then Mr. Miltenberger may very well get his wish of seeing two separate Workers' Compensation Boards. Hakuna Matata.

Thank you, Mr. Handley. Supplementary, Mr. Miltenberger.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, on this particular issue, it is hard to accept do not worry, be happy.

-- Laughter

The concern, Mr. Speaker, is that Nunavut seems to be setting the tone and direction here and that the territorial government is sitting passively by, accepting the decisions made by Nunavut as it did with NTPC.

My question to the Minister is, will we in fact take the same kind of leadership role that Nunavut has demonstrated and make a political decision? It is in our best interest to split the Workers' Compensation Board. Why do we not do it now? Do the planning that is necessary as opposed to dragging this out. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you, Mr. Miltenberger. The honourable Minister responsible for the Workers' Compensation Board, Mr. Handley.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I am not convinced it is in our best interest to split the Workers' Compensation Board. We have entered into negotiations with Nunavut on the potential of a continuation of a shared Workers' Compensation Board. The assessments I have so far, and I will be happy to share those with the Member, show that it is to our advantage to maintain one Workers' Compensation Board in terms of the rates and in terms of the other benefits that are provided through this.

It is a complicated one. We need to look at the number of claims, where the payments are coming from and so on. I would be happy to share that information with the Member. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you, Mr. Handley. Supplementary, Mr. Miltenberger.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, it makes no political sense. We were told that it would not be in our best interest to split NTPC, that there would be a five percent rate increase. Now I have heard that division is going to happen and there will not be a rate increase. I have great suspicion of the numbers and the rationale to keep one large organization if there is bureaucratic survival in this.

Mr. Speaker, my question is, as part of this legislative review that has been undertaken, trying to come up with one piece of legislation for two territories with different political realities, will this issue be looked at? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you, Mr. Miltenberger. The honourable Minister responsible for the Workers' Compensation Board, Mr. Handley.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, yes, that issue will be taken into consideration as the review team undergoes public hearings and their own assessment of where we go. At the same time as the review is happening, we are in negotiations with Nunavut. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Minister. Final supplementary, Mr. Miltenberger.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Could the Minister then indicate what the position is of the government in these negotiations? Is it trying to maintain this forced marriage at all costs or are we taking a look at what is best for the people of the Northwest Territories? Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Miltenberger. The honourable Minister responsible for the Workers' Compensation Board, Mr. Handley.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, certainly we are taking the interests of the residents of the Northwest Territories as being our primary responsibility. If there is an advantage to us in maintaining a shared WCB, then I support that. If the assessments that are being done, and I will be happy to share those with the Member, show otherwise, I am happy to do that. I have not taken a stand either way at this time, although the information I have is that from a financial perspective, we are better off with one WCB. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Minister. Item 6, oral questions. The honourable Member for Mackenzie Delta, Mr. Krutko.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Minister responsible for Health, but if she wants to pass it along to the Minister of Public Works...it is regarding the Aklavik Health Centre. There has been a delay in the construction of the new health centre. There has also been a change in transporting the materials into Aklavik. They are now going to be barged in. Originally, they were supposed to be trucked in over the winter road.

The concern I have, Mr. Speaker, is because of these changes and delays, it is having an affect on the overall cost of the project. Not only because of the delays, but in having over three different people to date handling this project. There are also cost overruns associated with the project management and the engineering architectural designs associated with the construction and design of this building. These cost overruns are having an effect on the quality of the building.

The community's concern is with all of these different people involved, and now they are talking about making cuts and amendments to the building, what will it do for the programs that will be delivered through this new health centre by decreasing the design and size of the building. Could the Minister tell me what the cost associated with these delays and cost overruns to date are because of this? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you, Mr. Krutko. The honourable Minister responsible for Health and Social Services, Mrs. Groenewegen.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, there have been some modifications to the original program that was set out for the replacement of the Aklavik Health Centre, as the Member notes. In the consideration of the design and some of the components of the facility, I want to assure the Member that no consideration will be given to any measures that would compromise the delivery of the health and social services programs within that facility.

There have been some changes to the budget. The original projected budget was $3,569,000. The most recent estimate prepared by Public Works and Services is now $4,360,000. I just want to assure the Member that the way by which the materials will arrive is not going to affect the occupancy date of the facility, as far as we know at this time.

The materials and supplies are now scheduled to be delivered by barge in July as opposed to by winter road, which was anticipated to be in the spring. The change of delivery of transportation does not delay the completion construction date as far as we know at this time. Thank you.

Thank you, Madam Minister. Supplementary, Mr. Krutko.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, can the Minister tell me if there have been any increases in the costs associated in delivering this unit because of the change from trucking on the ice road versus barging in the summer? Has there been an increase in that cost?

Thank you, Mr. Krutko. The honourable Minister responsible for the Department of Health, Mrs. Groenewegen.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I do not know whether the means of transportation of the materials to build the facility is affecting the overall cost or not. I do know that the revised estimates include approximately $360,000 for the replacement of the ball diamond, which is something that we had considered because of the site on which the health centre was going to be built.

As far as the difference in the price between trucking it by road versus barging it, I do not have an answer for the Member on that. I could undertake to get one for him. Thank you.

Thank you, Madam Minister. Supplementary, Mr. Krutko.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, the other concern I had is that there have been three different project managers for this project because of a change in staff. Could that have had a barrier on the increase cost in concluding the construction of this facility, because of having to go through so many different people instead of just having one person oversee the project?

Thank you, Mr. Krutko. The honourable Minister responsible for Health and Social Services, Mrs. Groenewegen.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, Health and Social Services, the client department for which Public Works and Services is building this, as far as the project managers on this particular facility, I think that would be a question that perhaps would be better addressed by Public Works and Services. I would like to ask Mr. Steen if he would have any additional information to add. Thank you.

Thank you, Madam Groenewegen. As the Deputy Premier, you are entitled to ask another Minister to respond. The honourable Minister for Public Works and Services, Mr. Steen.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, Public Works' involvement in it is in the design aspect of the facility. There were some slowdowns in relation to the design put forward to keep the designs and the project within budget. However, what I am told is that the final outcome of the completion of the building remains the same. I am not aware that changing the project officer has any relation to the end cost of the building. Thank you.

Thank you, Minister Steen. Final supplementary, Mr. Krutko.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Could the Minister responsible for Public Works tell me the information on exactly how much money has been spent to date on the project management and the architectural design costs because of having three different individuals handling the project? It moved from one person to another person to another person. There is a cost associated with that, by not having it overseen by one person. Could the Minister get me the exact cost breakdown of what the departmental cost to date is on that project?

Thank you, Mr. Krutko. The honourable Minister responsible for the Department of Public Works and Services, Mr. Steen.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I can provide that information to the Member at a later date. I do not have that with me at this time. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Steen. Item 6, oral questions. The honourable Member for Range Lake, Ms. Lee.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. My question today goes to the Minister of Finance and it has to do with the announcement he made about the fuel subsidy rebate. As I stated earlier, I was talking to my constituents and a lot of my constituents are very happy about this subsidy, but we all know that you will have to meet the eligibility criteria to get the money. I am just wondering about the practical aspects of this announcement.

The Minister has already indicated that he hopes to have the cheques out by mid-March, so there is a sense of limited timing here. I was wondering if the Minister could advise as to where people should go, who will be administering this, and what the process will be. Where will they fill out the forms?

Thank you, Ms. Lee. There were three questions there. The honourable Minister responsible for Finance, Mr. Handley.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. As we are meeting here, our deputy ministers are meeting to determine which department will be the lead on this. Most likely it will be one of the major departments dealing with housing and energy costs. The forms are being prepared. We will, within a few days, clarify which department is going to handle it and where people can pick up the forms. Thank you.

Thank you, Minister Handley. Supplementary, Ms. Lee.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. In his speech, or maybe in his interviews outside of here, he mentioned that for Yellowknifers, the eligibility line may be a combined family income of $70,000. I wonder if the Minister could specify as to whether or not that $70,000 is gross income or net income. Can he give us any more details on the level of income that would meet the eligibility status? Thank you.

Thank you, Ms. Lee. The honourable Minister responsible for the Department of Finance, Mr. Handley.

Mr. Speaker, the intention is to use the Northwest Territories Housing Corporation core need income threshold scales. Those provide for household income, so it is gross income. The threshold for Yellowknife is $72,500. That is total household income. Thank you.

Thank you, Minister Handley. Supplementary, Ms. Lee.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. On the same policy, the Minister stated you have to have paid for the fuel to be eligible for this. That is a good point there. I am wondering about those people who got fuel subsidies from the federal government. Would they also be eligible above and beyond what they got from the federal government? Would that affect the eligibility? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you, Ms. Lee. The honourable Minister responsible for the Department of Finance, Mr. Handley.

Mr. Speaker, I am not familiar with the federal government program of fuel subsidies. Unless the Member is referring to the rebates that the federal government has paid. With regard to those, if someone was eligible and received a rebate from the federal government, then that has no bearing on our program. We are looking at ours separately.

The same applies to seniors who may have gotten fuel assistance. They would also be eligible for this one. The main criteria is that the applicant for the household has to have purchased fuel themselves. They cannot have had the fuel given to them by an employer or a landlord. They must have some evidence that they have purchased fuel.

Thank you, Minister Handley. Final supplementary, Ms. Lee.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Just to take advantage of the final supplementary then, can I confirm with the Minister that he will be making an announcement in this House with the details of how people can access this program? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.