Thank you, Mr. Handley. Mr. Miltenberger.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, as Minister, it is only a matter of program sense to do as the Member has suggested. I would like to point out as well that we have an alcohol and drug facility on the Hay River Reserve and that is Nats'ejee K'eh, but we also have facilities for children in Yellowknife, in Fort Smith, in Inuvik and Hay River. There are group homes, there are group homes for adults in Yellowknife and Simpson.

So, in addition to special foster placements across the Northwest Territories we have an array of services. The problem that we have is dealing with the children who require specialized services, either child welfare services, psychological services or medical services.

Like the Member, I would be very interested if we could in fact come to the day when we do not have to ship children south. I would be happy to work with the Social Programs Committee and the communities to see. Repatriation is always on the table and we are trying to see how we can provide those services. Access to highly trained professionals is difficult, as we have learned from recruitment retention of doctors and nurses. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Miltenberger. Page 11, children's programs. Mr. Roland.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Under this area, again, not previously authorized for a higher number of children in southern placements than anticipated. Through the budgeting process and business plans I know departments put in items for forced growth. I would like to know, why was this not included in that situation? I know again from history the departments plan for increased costs in case contracts for those placements which are changed and go up. There seems to be a number used, I do not know if it is four or five percent, for forced growth, but why would that not be included in the department's estimates? Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Roland. Mr. Handley.

Mr. Chairman, certainly we allow departments to try to make their projects with forced growth. They are operating with a limited budget. There are always unknowns that happen throughout a year. We do not know what the number of children will be, exactly. We do not know what the costs of providing the service for them will be for those particular children in any given year. The only way around this kind of situation, Mr. Chairman, would be to allow departments to have such a large figure that they would not have to come back. I do not think that is a good way of managing our resources here, so we keep a fairly tight reign on it, but we do allow for forced growth. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Handley. Mr. Roland.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. The reason I ask that is if there is a trend there, it is something to look at. The planning cycle is an important one and hopefully we are planning correctly for potential impacts throughout the year. Was this the first increase that we have seen in this area?

Thank you, Mr. Roland. Mr. Handley.

Mr. Chairman, if my knowledge is right, we believe that they had some increase built into their budget this year for this, but it was not enough. If you are asking about previous years then I would expect that in previous years there probably were instances where there were more children in southern placement than we had anticipated and probably years where they had less as well. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Handley. Mr. Roland.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I guess that is something that we have to look at overall. I know the Minister stated an issue of repatriation and it is something that has been discussed for some time in this government. Knowing that there is over $2.7 million just in this field now for southern facilities and workers, we are paying for somebody else to be able to be staffed up and have that professional expertise. When does it become economical or more appropriate to develop that here in our jurisdiction in the Northwest Territories? Has that been considered in this as the costs continue to rise? Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Roland. Mr. Handley.

Mr. Chairman, certainly as the Minister has pointed out, we want to watch this all the time and if our population increases to the point that we are able to do this in the North, then certainly we should do it in the North.

I might point out that $2.7 million or three point some million in total here, given the kind of specialized services that are necessary and I do not know the nature of each of these 34 children, I doubt that we could run an institution for 34 children with that variety of specialized needs for the amount of money here. I am not a specialist in this area, but we are always watching that one. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Handley. Mr. Krutko.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Just on the point of repatriation of people. In Inuvik they established what they call the Charlotte Vehus Home so that we can try and bring people who have disabilities from southern Canada back up to the Delta region. I think that was a good start and I think, if anything, whenever possible we should continue to do that. I think that it is important as a government that we support groups and organizations that want to assist, especially in regard to facilitating and housing people closer to their homes and closer to the North, to try and find a way of getting these people back into the communities or the communities that they come from. Then they could be closer to their families and closer to their communities instead of having them in Alberta.

We cannot keep dropping our problems on other people in other jurisdictions. We do have to look at dealing with problems at home and we are always telling our communities, "we expect you to have the ability to govern yourselves or take on responsibilities for programs and services." I would like to hear from the Minister that we do not automatically put the brakes on and stop the whole initiative of trying to repatriate people back to their communities and back to the regional centres and back to the North. I think that it is essential that we do develop, not only the infrastructure, but also the expertise that we have at hand in the North. I think that it is important that we do that.

I would like to ask the Minister, what are you doing to ensure that process is looked at with the communities and with the affected families and the aboriginal organizations and communities in the North?

Thank you, Mr. Krutko. Mr. Miltenberger.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, firstly the intent for children in care is to keep their stay in care as short as possible and make all attempts possible to get them reunited with their families in their communities. As I have indicated over the last number of questions, this child welfare information is constantly being evaluated and it is not all child welfare information; some of it is medical. As Mr. Handley has indicated and Mr. Voytilla, we look at this and if there is any kind of long enough trend we are going to be looking at trying to provide the services in the North.

The problem comes by virtue of the fact that the requirement is for very specialized, high-end services that tend to be medically complex or behaviourally and psychologically or physiologically complex and we do not have the resources to deal with them in the North. We have made efforts and will continue to make efforts through Trailcross, through territorial treatment centres, the group homes that we have, the specialized foster placements. We have difficulty in getting a child psychiatrist on a longer, full-time basis in Yellowknife. We do not have speech pathologists because we cannot fill the positions.

Are we looking at trying to repatriate? Yes, we are and we work with the health authorities and the communities to try and do that. We deal with adults as well, which is why they built the facility that they did in the Deh Cho for adults. So it is an ongoing process, the numbers change and the children come in and out of care, but we do work towards that goal. Thank you.

Thank you Mr. Miltenberger. Mr. Krutko.

Again, Mr. Chairman, I would just like to stress to the Minister, I know that it is a challenge, but I think that in order for us to face that challenge we have to change our concept with regard to the professions. I know it is hard to get doctors and psychiatrists and whatnot, but unless we have a program, a facility and a means at the end of the day of delivering these programs, we will always have to depend on the south until we change that attitude of this government. Let us get on with ensuring that we do develop our expertise and develop our infrastructure in the Northwest Territories to basically carry out these types of programs.

I think as a government that we cannot continue to hide behind the argument that we cannot, cannot, cannot. Maybe if we try, try, try and make an attempt to show that we can facilitate those areas we know we can manage. The other ones that we cannot, sure I agree. Maybe we will not have all the expertise in the world, but those we can attract and those ones that we can deliver in the Northwest Territories we should do everything in our means to carry that out. I have a real problem when we look at the whole delivery mechanism in the Northwest Territories. Unless we change the attitude of this government, we will continue to institutionalize people in southern institutions.

Unless there is a will, there is no way. Unless the will comes from that side of the House, we will always hear the argument that we do not have the expertise, the infrastructure or the professions to do it. Let us make it a priority to find the expertise, find the people to do it and let us get on with it. I think it is important as a government that we start thinking positively here and try and get it done. Saying that we cannot, cannot, cannot or we do not have this or we do not have that, let us go and get it, let us find the expertise and let us develop it in the Northwest Territories so that people do not have to leave the North for those programs and services that we can deliver in the North.

Thank you, Mr. Krutko. Mr. Handley.

Mr. Chairman, I think our government agrees with the message the Member is expressing. Wherever it is possible, then yes, let us try and find a way of providing services for these children in the North. We certainly do not want to send children south just for the sake of sending them south. I think we can look at it and continually be creative in ways of keeping them here and still providing good services for them. Thank you.