This is page numbers 87 - 122 of the Hansard for the 14th Assembly, 6th Session. The original version can be accessed on the Legislative Assembly's website or by contacting the Legislative Assembly Library. The word of the day was capital.

Topics

Role Of Deputy Ministers In The Capital Planning Process
Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 91

The Speaker

The Speaker Tony Whitford

Thank you, Mr. Delorey. Item 3, Members' statements. The honourable Member for Great Slave, Mr. Braden.

Fairness And Equity In The Capital Planning Process
Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 91

Bill Braden

Bill Braden Great Slave

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. These days there is a constant tug-of-war in our Assembly for the money available for building and maintaining our schools, roads, airports and other infrastructure. It's further complicated, Mr. Speaker, in our consensus system of governing with the very legitimate expectations of departments and agencies, MLAs and Ministers, communities and regions, that everyone will get a share of the pie.

Let's face it. As MLAs, we all want to see something built, something improved, something new in each of our ridings and towns at least once in our four-year terms. But with a shrinking capital budget pegged this year at only $74 million, it's not a realistic or a sustainable expectation. How do we address it? How do we manage to do this to satisfy the ideal of fiscal fairness and yet deliver spending where and when it's most needed and get the best value for the taxpayers' dollar?

In previous Assemblies, Mr. Speaker, departments have had more or less a constant amount of dollars. After departments and MLAs and committees have worked out priorities, a letter was sent to mayors and chiefs. It was sent by the Premier to describe the spending initiatives planned for the coming year in each community. It invited comment, but no real input into planning. This changed somewhat with this Assembly. Now there is one pool of money the departments must share. For the past two years, a committee of deputy ministers has used a priority system rating safety or people and property first, to work out who gets how much money. Mr. Speaker, MLAs have been frustrated with this approach. It diminishes our voices and the voices of community and regional leaders in how capital dollars are spent. Informing the municipalities and regions after the decisions have been made is not the way to go. A suggestion I would like to make is that we look at a process where community leaders, MLAs and officials from the departments can all get together and create a spending plan that has everyone's interests in mind. Mr. Speaker, at one time I believe community governments were encouraged to prepare a multi-year community capital plan within their fiscal framework. This makes sense. To take the idea one step further, I would suggest that we only need to do this once every four years at the beginning of our terms, so we can reduce the annual spending scrimmage that takes up so much of our time and creates so much uncertainty and conflict at the community level and here in this Assembly. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

---Applause

Fairness And Equity In The Capital Planning Process
Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 92

The Speaker

The Speaker Tony Whitford

Thank you, Mr. Braden. Item 3, Members' statements. The honourable Member for Hay River South, Mrs. Groenewegen.

Public Expectations For Capital Spending
Item 3: Members' Statements

February 16th, 2003

Page 92

Jane Groenewegen

Jane Groenewegen Hay River South

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, the finance Minister in his Budget Address tells us that we must slow down capital investment, and that total capital investment expenditures are expected to decrease 48 percent from $143 million in 2002-2003 to $74 million in 2003-2004. Mr. Speaker, we know that this is not enough to meet all the needs of the Northwest Territories. We know that much of our infrastructure is aging. Although the economy is booming in some places, we do not get the full benefit of corporate taxes or royalties that are being generated. Without this additional money, we cannot replace or build new needed facilities. The business community recognizes the problem and has been very supportive in lobbying the federal government to invest more money in the Northwest Territories. In the meantime, Mr. Speaker, I think that we have to be realistic about our expectations for capital spending. Most of the capital budget is eaten up in the maintenance and upkeep in existing facilities, roads, water and sewer, et cetera. This leaves very little money left over for new projects. Mr. Speaker, in an effort to better manage what little money is available for discretionary spending, the government has introduced a new system that attempts to assign priority to community needs and I applaud the government for trying to make the best use of what is available. However, Mr. Speaker, perhaps the government could do a better job of explaining this new scheme.

When the special committee met with people in the communities across the North, they heard that the ranking criteria used in the capital planning process have not been adequately explained, that projected O and M costs are not adequately documented and that there is no systematic consideration of location options for regional and territorial facilities. Mr. Speaker, the residents of the Northwest Territories have expectations that this government will build and maintain roads, health centres, and recreational facilities in each community. Because the process used to identify and rate projects is not well understood, we may be raising public expectations unrealistically. Mr. Speaker, the capital budget is not nearly enough to replace the aging infrastructure or to meet the demands of population growth and program demands. In fact, it is barely enough to maintain what is already in place. This makes it even more important that the government be very open and transparent about the choices that are made for new spending. Community expectations have been raised when they have been consulted and when they have identified their priorities. This government should be prepared to explain how they made the choice of which project to support and which ones to drop. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

---Applause

Public Expectations For Capital Spending
Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 92

The Speaker

The Speaker Tony Whitford

Thank you, Mrs. Groenewegen. Item 3, Members' statements. The honourable Member for North Slave, Mr. Lafferty.

Capital Spending In Support Of Community Services
Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 92

Leon Lafferty North Slave

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, today I would like to focus on the need to link capital spending to service delivery standards in the communities. Mr. Speaker, Northerners have a right to fair and equitable access to services. Although it is not realistic to expect all services to be provided at the local level, it is fair to expect to have access to education, health care, policing services and addiction services. Alcohol and drug abuse has long been an epidemic in the North. We know about it and we know something needs to be done. The dollars have to follow the words. We need to focus on capital spending on facilities to support people who want to become sober and drug free. People are asking for these services, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, if we really want to help solve a lot of the social problems in the territories, we have to help people get off drugs and alcohol. We need to spend some capital money on addictions facilities to support the work of the addiction workers. Mr. Speaker, our current practice of hiring an alcohol and drug counsellor in communities is, at best, a token gesture. Without providing any other support or facility programs, we are setting up both the counsellor and the addict for failure. The Premier and Ministers have said we have to quit smoking and drinking. It seems to me that the words and actions of the government do not match. Mr. Speaker, the government recently spent about $50 million creating a territorial jail. If even one-fifth of this was channeled to the prevention of addictions, we would have healthier Northerners. I do not think that the current process used to identify and choose capital projects puts enough of a priority on the health of the NWT residents. I would like to see changes in how projects are picked. The health and welfare of Northerners comes ahead of protecting and maintaining government facilities. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

---Applause

Capital Spending In Support Of Community Services
Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 92

The Speaker

The Speaker Tony Whitford

Thank you, Mr. Lafferty. Item 3, Members' statements. The honourable Member for Deh Cho, Mr. McLeod.

Balanced Approach To Capital Spending
Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 93

Michael McLeod

Michael McLeod Deh Cho

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I, too, am concerned about the current process used to identify projects. As I understand the ranking criteria, Mr. Speaker, the priorities are not seen to consider the needs of the small communities of the North. These criteria, especially the protection of people, may lead to projects from larger centres being placed before the needs of smaller communities. We need a more balanced approach to capital investment, Mr. Speaker. The government needs to establish a mechanism for meeting community involvement in the planning process, not just for local planning but for regional and territorial planning needs as well. The government also needs to ensure there is sufficient capital money to allocate the projects in smaller communities, even if it means not spending on mega projects such as territorial facilities that are not located in the smaller communities. There needs to be a mechanism set aside for the capital budget to meet the needs of the smaller communities based on planning criteria that is meaningful to their needs. I believe the government needs to make some changes to the ranking criteria for capital projects. The criteria should be simple and easily understood. It's not enough to just have a process either, Mr. Speaker. When decisions are made, it must be seen by all. Mr. Speaker, decisions on which capital projects get funded cannot be made behind closed doors with no explanation to the communities nor to the standing committees to justify those decisions. The government should be prepared to provide information about capital needs and the way priorities are assigned to projects. They should be prepared to report back to the municipal governments about the results of their input. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

---Applause

Balanced Approach To Capital Spending
Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 93

The Speaker

The Speaker Tony Whitford

Thank you, Mr. McLeod. Item 3, Members' statements. The honourable Member for Range Lake, Ms. Lee.

Capital Spending Levels In Tax-based Communities
Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 93

Sandy Lee

Sandy Lee Range Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I, too, would like to add an opinion about this very important topic. Mr. Speaker, I think that the reality of our financial situation is quite dire. I think while there is a consensus that we have to do our necessary spending, the approaching debt wall in front of us is getting closer and closer. Mr. Speaker, one thing that needs to be remembered is the fact that this government has seen a major, major reduction in capital spending. Just in this year, capital expenditures are expected to decrease by 48 percent from $143 million last year to $74 million in this coming year. This is a very small amount out of $611 million in the total budget. I do believe that, as long as we have so little money in the capital budget, we will continue to hear concerns about what's going on behind closed doors and the ever present feeling that whoever squeaks the loudest or whoever bugs the Minister hardest or whoever pounds the desk the loudest will get the capital budget in their riding. Mr. Speaker, I appreciate that this government has to make very tough choices in order to meet the spending needs in areas such as health and social services, but I think it's incumbent on all of us to come up with ways to do it better and reduce costs where we can. I think there are many realities that I must point out as a Member from Yellowknife, which is seen as one of the richest areas. But the reality is, Mr. Speaker, that the tax-based communities are not getting a lot of help from the GNWT to replace their aging infrastructure. Residents in tax-based communities have to pay more in the way of municipal taxes, but we have to line up behind every other community to get capital projects.

---Interjection

There is a public perception, Mr. Speaker, that a lot of the capital budget is spent in Yellowknife and this is not true. While it may be true that the budget is being spent at territorial facilities in Yellowknife, these facilities are not for the sole use of Yellowknife but for all Northerners. We have needs for schools and recreational complexes like everyone else, and I believe we need...Mr. Speaker, may I seek unanimous consent to conclude my statement?

Capital Spending Levels In Tax-based Communities
Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 93

The Speaker

The Speaker Tony Whitford

The honourable Member is seeking unanimous consent to conclude her Member's statement. Are there any nays?

Capital Spending Levels In Tax-based Communities
Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 93

An Hon. Member

Nay.

Capital Spending Levels In Tax-based Communities
Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 93

The Speaker

The Speaker Tony Whitford

Sorry, Ms. Lee, you won't be able to conclude your Member's statements. Item 3, Members' statements. The honourable Member for Yellowknife South, Mr. Bell.

Transparency Of Capital Planning Ranking Criteria
Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 93

Brendan Bell

Brendan Bell Yellowknife South

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. As far as the gentlemen on the other side of the floor are concerned, we are all the same.

---Laughter

The capital planning process, Mr. Speaker, I, like my colleagues, would like to highlight some of the concerns we have with the supposedly new and improved capital acquisition process. If you go on the web site, Mr. Speaker, under capital acquisitions, you will find that the discussion begins something like this: "Commencing with the development of the capital acquisition plan for 02-03, the government has adopted a revised corporate capital planning process. The process allows for the allocation of available capital funding according to priority and need on a government-wide basis, as opposed to the prior process of allocating a capital budget target to individual departments." Mr. Speaker, it's hard to argue with that, but I think in the past, the public might suggest that the prior practice was simply of Cabinet sitting around and divvying up projects as horse trading exercises, Mr. Speaker. We all know this is a new time. We are new and improved. We are rehabilitated, as it were. We know we have limited resources and certainly not unlimited needs, insatiable wants. So, in theory, Mr. Speaker, this new process looks fine. But there is almost no way to clearly link this process to GNWT priorities. For that matter, Mr. Speaker, it's hard to define what our priorities are. We certainly can't look to the document we produced at the beginning of the Assembly, Towards a Better Tomorrow, to give us a documentation of our detailed priorities. It just doesn't do that. It's too vague and at too high a level. Mr. Speaker, without identifying these priorities, it's almost impossible to make a clear link between the capital process and our strategic priorities. If we are going to do anything, Mr. Speaker, step one has to be identifying our priorities in a clear manner and articulating them. Step two, Mr. Speaker, would be to apply ranking criteria to determine what projects should have highest priority. This would give us, and the public certainly, a transparent mechanism for scoring the projects. We would see how they stack up against other projects and this simply isn't the case right now, Mr. Speaker. As we know, and other Members have mentioned, currently this exercise is done by deputy ministers behind closed doors and it's not good, Mr. Speaker. Ministers on that side of the House have to be prepared to stand up and discuss the ranking and scoring of these projects with Members and with the public so that we can see where they compare. The lack of transparency just creates suspicion. It casts a shadow over the whole process, Mr. Speaker. When Regular Members ask for justification, at best we get a thick, technical assessment of a facility that purports to outline the shortfalls of that individual facility. But, Mr. Speaker, oftentimes it's about the size of a Toronto phonebook. This is not the same as a score sheet comparing a project against others on the basis of some agreed upon criteria. So, Mr. Speaker, if this truly is our objective, if it is not about patronage and not about pork-barrelling, we shouldn't be afraid to show it. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

---Applause

Transparency Of Capital Planning Ranking Criteria
Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 94

The Speaker

The Speaker Tony Whitford

Thank you, Mr. Bell. Item 3, Members' statements. The honourable Member for Nahendeh, Mr. Antoine.

Appreciation Evening In Jean Marie River
Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 94

Jim Antoine Nahendeh

Mahsi, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, this part of our agenda gives us the opportunity as MLAs to say a few things about your constituency. I will take the opportunity today to thank the community of Jean Marie for inviting me when they had their appreciation evening on February 8th, last Saturday. The community put together a feast and dance and made presentations to members of the community who have contributed to their community over the years. The reason for doing that is, in our society in the North, in our small communities, we have different leaders and different people who contribute to our society and our communities and we don't seem to appreciate the time and energy people put into trying to make a better place for people living in the communities. On February 8th, Chief Fred Norwegian and his councillors saw fit to recognize previous chiefs and councillors of Jean Marie and their elders who have contributed to making their community what it is today. There are many people coming out of Jean Marie River to pursue their careers throughout the North and the south. I think it's from the early beginnings when their community leaders of the day like Louis Norwegian, Jimmy Sanguez, Johnny Sanguez, Gabe Sanguez, Henry Ekali, all these different elders who people don't know in the mainstream in the NWT that they did work very hard and urged their children to get an education and pursue careers. It was a very good evening that allowed me to reflect on our work here and throughout the North. I think there are many people in other communities and in government and other places, the Member of Parliament and Senators. We seem to focus on looking at the negative side instead of looking at the positive side. I think there are many positives in the North. We have reason to be proud of the work that we do and the work that our people in the communities do. Once again, I just wanted to share with you my tour in my constituency. Mahsi.

---Applause

Appreciation Evening In Jean Marie River
Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 94

The Speaker

The Speaker Tony Whitford

Mahsi, Mr. Antoine. Item 3, Members' statements. Item 4, returns to oral questions. Item 5, recognition of visitors in the gallery.

Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery
Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Page 94

The Speaker

The Speaker Tony Whitford

Colleagues, I would like to bring your attention to the presence in the Speaker's Gallery of Robert Marleau. He's former Clerk of the House of Commons from 1987 to 2000. He is probably the leading authority on procedural matters in Houses of Parliament. Mr. Marleau is here along with his wife Anne to give the Board of Management some assistance on procedural matters. Please welcome Mr. Marleau to the Assembly.

---Applause

Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery
Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Page 94

The Speaker

The Speaker Tony Whitford

Item 5, recognition of visitors in the gallery. The honourable Member for Weledeh, Mr. Handley.

Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery
Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Page 94

Joe Handley

Joe Handley Weledeh

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. We have a number of people in the gallery today who are here to witness some of the work we are doing on our strategy and legislation to reduce impaired driving. I would like to recognize three of them. First of all, Ms. Louise Knox, who is the national president of Mothers Against Drunk Driving.

---Applause

Then, as well, Mr. Speaker, I would like to introduce Mr. Percy Kinney, the chief coroner of the Northwest Territories and also Major Karen Hoeft, director of community development of the Salvation Army. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

---Applause

Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery
Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Page 94

The Speaker

The Speaker Tony Whitford

Thank you, Mr. Handley. Item 5, recognition of visitors in the gallery. The honourable Member for Thebacha, Mr. Miltenberger.

Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery
Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Page 94

Michael Miltenberger

Michael Miltenberger Thebacha

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I, as well, would like to recognize Dr. Ross Wheeler, medical advisor to the registrar.

---Applause

Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery
Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Page 94

The Speaker

The Speaker Tony Whitford

Thank you. Item 5, recognition of visitors in the gallery. The honourable Member for Yellowknife Centre, Mr. Ootes.

Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery
Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Page 94

Jake Ootes

Jake Ootes Yellowknife Centre

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I would like to recognize the students from St. Patrick High School, the SADD members, along with their teachers Ms. Thoms and Ms. O'Brien.

---Applause

Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery
Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Page 94

The Speaker

The Speaker Tony Whitford

Item 5, recognition of visitors in the gallery. The honourable Member for Frame Lake, Mr. Dent.