This is page numbers 123 - 156 of the Hansard for the 14th Assembly, 6th Session. The original version can be accessed on the Legislative Assembly's website or by contacting the Legislative Assembly Library. The word of the day was going.

Topics

Bill 5: An Act To Amend The Motor Vehicles Act
Item 19: Second Reading Of Bills

Page 140

Paul Delorey

Paul Delorey Hay River North

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I also would like to speak in favour of this bill, and I won't take up much time. But I know that more and more we're becoming aware of the dangers of alcohol, when you mix alcohol and driving. We have seen much evidence of that over the years. I can only speak back over my lifetime and driving and my experiences and what I have seen happen over the last 30 years or so. There was a time, Mr. Speaker, when even the RCMP was very tolerant when they'd stop somebody and there was alcohol involved. Common practice was to just take the alcohol and let the guy go and whatever. I've seen a lot of evidence of that. But more and more as incidents have happened over the years with individuals being seriously injured or even killed by drunk drivers, the issue has come to a point where we as legislators cannot afford to ignore it.

So I just want to compliment the Minister for bringing this legislation forward. And I think for anybody who may have arguments about the negative side of this, I think we only have to look at what the reality is. That is that as legislators we cannot afford to take any credit for holding up something that is directly related to public safety, and this is all about public safety and safety on our highways. So, again, Mr. Speaker, I won't take up much time, but I will fully be supporting this bill for those reasons. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

---Applause

Bill 5: An Act To Amend The Motor Vehicles Act
Item 19: Second Reading Of Bills

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The Speaker

The Speaker Tony Whitford

Thank you, Mr. Delorey. To the principle of the bill. The honourable Member for Range Lake, Ms. Lee.

Bill 5: An Act To Amend The Motor Vehicles Act
Item 19: Second Reading Of Bills

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Sandy Lee

Sandy Lee Range Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I, too, would like to speak in favour of the motion. I don't believe I can add too much more to what's already been spoken by my honourable colleagues in the House. I truly believe that this is a good piece of legislation and the right thing to do, and I'd like to congratulate the government for bringing it forward.

Mr. Speaker, I am much younger than the Member for Hay River North, so I don't remember a time when RCMP might overlook drivers driving under the influence of alcohol, but I can tell you that in my own lifetime we have seen a progression of education in the minds of the public about the fact that we will not tolerate mixing of drinking with driving.

Mr. Speaker, I think a great deal of credit should be given to the young people. Whenever I'm in the company of young people, as I was in the Power Up Young Women's Conference in the beginning of this month, as well as when I spend some time with the young people in schools in my riding, I am always amazed at the awareness and the knowledge that they have about the negative effects of alcohol, as well as tobacco. I believe that if some of them had their way, they would make both of these illegal. I think that's a product of years of education and the realization and understanding that we have in our world today, that these substances, when they're abused, create a great deal of harm, and it could be a leading cause of preventable deaths in Canada.

So I'm happy to support this legislation. Another thing I need to add before I close is the fact that a good law will not have the full effect if it's not enforced. It is important that as much as we put the law in place, that we have human resources and mechanisms in place to make sure that the good laws are enforced in an adequate manner. So I do hope the Minister and the government is mindful of that, so that we have the maximum effect of this legislation. With that, thank you, Mr. Speaker, and I'll be supporting the motion.

---Applause

Bill 5: An Act To Amend The Motor Vehicles Act
Item 19: Second Reading Of Bills

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The Speaker

The Speaker Tony Whitford

Thank you, Ms. Lee. To the principle of the bill. The honourable Member for Hay River South, Mrs. Groenewegen.

Bill 5: An Act To Amend The Motor Vehicles Act
Item 19: Second Reading Of Bills

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Jane Groenewegen

Jane Groenewegen Hay River South

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I will be supporting the bill and I would also like to thank the Minister for bringing this legislation forward. I think it is one piece in the puzzle that is reflective of how society is beginning to view drinking and driving as a public safety issue and I think it's not just about punishing people or having legislation in place, although I also believe it's about each of us taking responsibility for our own actions and also where we have influence with people that we may be with. I think we all need to do our part to ensure that friends and, in the case of people who serve alcohol, patrons are encouraged when consuming alcohol to find alternative means of transportation. So I think it's a piece of legislation that is reflective of the current times and current thinking and it is just one part of a whole approach that needs to be taken by our society to ensure the safety of not only those driving vehicles, but also those who may be on the road at the same time.

---Applause

Bill 5: An Act To Amend The Motor Vehicles Act
Item 19: Second Reading Of Bills

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The Speaker

The Speaker Tony Whitford

Thank you, Mrs. Groenewegen. To the principle of the bill. The honourable Member for Mackenzie Delta, Mr. Krutko.

Bill 5: An Act To Amend The Motor Vehicles Act
Item 19: Second Reading Of Bills

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David Krutko

David Krutko Mackenzie Delta

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I, too, will be supporting the bill. I have seen what the effects of drinking and driving has done to all of our small communities and the young lives we have lost because of alcohol and driving either in snowmobile accidents or rollovers on our highways where collisions have occurred because of a person being impaired. I think, Mr. Speaker, it is time that we bring our laws in line with the rest of Canada, and realize that we have a role to play not only in ensuring public safety, but also in making drivers aware that they are responsible when they get behind the wheel, and ensuring that our highways are not there strictly for the taking that you can drink and drive. We have seen accidents such as snowmobile accidents and deaths on our highways. A large number of the criminal offences that have occurred in the Northwest Territories are alcohol related and I think this is one way of educating the public and ensuring that they realize the effects alcohol has on the body and the mind. You are not immune to having an accident because of who you are. Also we have to do more to educate the youth and make them aware of the effects of alcohol, and make them aware that they can have a good time without alcohol. I have seen too many young people go to an early grave because of drinking and driving and accidents that have occurred. So I am fully supporting this legislation. Thank you.

---Applause

Bill 5: An Act To Amend The Motor Vehicles Act
Item 19: Second Reading Of Bills

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The Speaker

The Speaker Tony Whitford

Thank you, Mr. Krutko. To the principle of the bill. Are there any further comments? Are Members ready for the question?

Bill 5: An Act To Amend The Motor Vehicles Act
Item 19: Second Reading Of Bills

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Some Hon. Members

Question.

Bill 5: An Act To Amend The Motor Vehicles Act
Item 19: Second Reading Of Bills

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The Speaker

The Speaker Tony Whitford

Question has been called. All those in favour? All those opposed? The motion is carried.

---Carried

Bill 5 has had second reading and accordingly the bill stands referred to a committee. Item 19, second reading of bills. Item 20, consideration in Committee of the Whole of bills and other matters: Bill 3, committee reports 3-14(6), 4-14(6) and 5-15(6), with Mr. Delorey in the chair.

Item 20: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 20: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

February 17th, 2003

Page 141

The Chair

The Chair Paul Delorey

I will call Committee of the Whole to order. We are here to review Health and Social Services. As I recall when we finished yesterday, we were in general comments and Ms. Lee had the floor. Is it the wish of the committee that we continue where we left off yesterday?

Item 20: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 20: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Some Hon. Members

Agreed

Item 20: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 20: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair Paul Delorey

The Chair will call a short break.

---SHORT RECESS

Bill 3: Appropriation Act, 2003-2004
Item 20: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair Paul Delorey

I will call the committee back to order. We are here to review Health and Social Services. Does the Minister wish to bring in any witnesses? Mr. Miltenberger.

Bill 3: Appropriation Act, 2003-2004
Item 20: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Michael Miltenberger

Michael Miltenberger Thebacha

Yes, Mr. Chairman.

Bill 3: Appropriation Act, 2003-2004
Item 20: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair Paul Delorey

Does the committee agree?

Bill 3: Appropriation Act, 2003-2004
Item 20: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Some Hon. Members

Agreed

---Agreed

Bill 3: Appropriation Act, 2003-2004
Item 20: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair Paul Delorey

Sergeant-at-Arms, will you escort the witnesses in, please?

Mr. Minister, please introduce your witnesses for the record.

department Of Health And Social Services
Bill 3: Appropriation Act, 2003-2004
Item 20: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Michael Miltenberger

Michael Miltenberger Thebacha

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I have with me Mr. Dave Murray, deputy minister of Health and Social Services; and Mr. Warren St. Germaine, director of finance for Health and Social Services.

department Of Health And Social Services
Bill 3: Appropriation Act, 2003-2004
Item 20: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Miltenberger. We left off yesterday and Ms. Lee had the floor. I will go back to Ms. Lee. General comments.

general Comments
Bill 3: Appropriation Act, 2003-2004
Item 20: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Sandy Lee

Sandy Lee Range Lake

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, yesterday at the end of the session, I was talking about the cuts or withdrawals of funding for 11 positions of child welfare workers and to record my disappointment about that. Then I began to talk about the increasing rate of apprehension of children. Mr. Chairman, I stated that I am one that supports apprehension of children where it is needed. I don't want to accept some... This is very difficult to talk about because we know there is some sense in some corners that the increased numbers of apprehensions of children might be the result of having more child welfare workers. I don't want to accept that, but there is a little bit of a communication problem. There is definitely an issue out there. Our community leaders who deal with this on a day-to-day basis have expressed concern about the number of apprehensions of children. I am also aware and I respect the work that child welfare workers do. It is not easy work. It is difficult work. I accept their plea with us over the last number of years about the fact that they have an increasing workload. So this is a topic I have to consider with as much information as possible, but we are all human and this is the kind of work that is very sensitive and you are dealing with lots of complex issues in the families and difficulties the families are going through and so on. It is possible that some child welfare workers may be more prone to apprehend children rather than considering other issues that might be available to them or it could be that new graduates out of school want to err on the side of being cautious or there might be some child welfare workers who might feel that intervening and apprehending children is a better way to handle the situations they find themselves in.

So I would like to know then what sort of mechanisms are there for review of cases where difficulties arise. I have heard of cases where some families are in difficulties. They have had to go to court. They have gotten a favourable judgment from even the judge about what they should do and not do and still they keep having to go back to the court because the department keeps taking them back to court or whatever.

If there is a situation where there is a great deal of disagreement between the family or the caretakers of the children or parents of the children and a social worker, what mechanisms are available for these two parties to come together? Is there a mode of arbitration or talking together to work out the best solution? Could I ask the Minister for that answer? Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

general Comments
Bill 3: Appropriation Act, 2003-2004
Item 20: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 142

The Chair

The Chair Paul Delorey

Thank you. Mr. Miltenberger.

general Comments
Bill 3: Appropriation Act, 2003-2004
Item 20: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 142

Michael Miltenberger

Michael Miltenberger Thebacha

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, the normal process would be decisions made by a child protection worker or a social worker with regard to the apprehension of a child, or a plan and care committee that is in place to deal with a particular child welfare matter. If there is no consensus, it can't be resolved, then there is the opportunity to go to the authority level, to the supervisor of the social worker or the child protection worker. As well, we also have, at the department level, the director of child welfare for the Northwest Territories that has authority over this particular program area and can also step in and review and mediate and arbitrate situations. On the more informal side, or a parallel process, is that people who are affected tend to sometimes go to their community leaders or their MLAs who may come to their Minister or deputy and we will take steps working with the director of child welfare that matters are resolved with a minimum of any kind of political interference on our part, but just ensuring that due process is done. Thank you.

general Comments
Bill 3: Appropriation Act, 2003-2004
Item 20: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 142

The Chair

The Chair Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Minister. Ms. Lee.

general Comments
Bill 3: Appropriation Act, 2003-2004
Item 20: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 142

Sandy Lee

Sandy Lee Range Lake

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I think that's what makes it very difficult because I do respect the process that's in place. I have all the confidence that it's probably working in the majority of cases. It's just the situations that don't work that end up coming to my office and I don't want to see a situation where there is political interference in these cases. That makes it very difficult for all of us because these people when they have these situations where their children are being taken away, and they are doing everything they can to work with a social worker but it seems whatever they do, it's just not enough even when the court decision is in their favour. In the cases where these families find themselves at this stage, they might have lost the confidence and trust of either the social worker, the supervisor or even the director because they all come from the same body called "social services" and they can't distinguish between the Minister or the department or the board. It's just a whole system of social workers who seem to not work with them. I am not in a position to know all the details, but I do get the sense of frustration. So I am wondering if the Minister has looked into any sort of independent body of maybe someone in the private sector who could determine this and bring them in to look at the situation and see if the case is being dealt with fairly and so that everybody could step back and take a look at it. Has that ever been tried?