Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I would like to ask questions to the Minister of Health and Social Services with regard to the statement I made and conversations I had with the Minister. Mr. Speaker, I am fully aware of the fact that as much as possible, we do not want to be sitting here talking about management and operations issues. That is not my intention to do micro-managing or anything like that. I am asking questions in the interest of maintaining the level of health care services that we do have and we cannot deliver the programs in health care without an acute care facility like the Stanton Territorial Hospital or all the employees who work within that.

It's very important for me to raise these issues with the hope that the Minister and the management will listen and pay attention to these issues and address them. The Minister is well aware of these issues. Could the Minister indicate to us what he has done since our conversations with him yesterday? Thank you.

Thank you, Ms. Lee. The honourable Minister of Health and Social Services, Mr. Miltenberger.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, what I have done, as Members are aware, as the honourable Member is aware, as is the Member for Kam Lake, I took notes on the issues that were raised to me. Some of them are labour relations, some of them are health and safety issues, about a page. I went from their office down to my office and I got on the speaker phone with the deputy minister. I went through the issues with him and talked about those issues and get together the information that we have to, to be able to speak to those issues. We are starting to look at the response. Some of the issues will probably require more detail, some of the labour relations ones. But, very clearly, we are very concerned and interested about the quality of care at Stanton and want to work with the Members and the general public, as well, to make sure we maintain the high levels of services that exist there. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Miltenberger. Supplementary, Ms. Lee.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, with all due respect, the deputy minister of Health just recently came from there. There must be issues he's aware of. I would think that the Minister would be well aware of this. My belief in this regard is that the regular reporting channel may not be the way to find out and address some of these issues. We are talking about very long-term employees, nurses, maintenance workers, front-line workers, leaving in droves because they feel very frustrated about the working conditions and lack of their ability to have input into the process. I would like to ask the Minister, aside from having the deputy minister and CEO looking at these issues, would he be willing to send an independent person to go in there? I don't want a long-term strategy or consultant's report, but would somebody

look at the toxic working situation and see if we could come up with a set of workable short list of recommendations that we could address right away?

Thank you, Ms. Lee. Mr. Miltenberger.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. The Member makes some very sweeping statements. She indicated in her Member's statement she met with six people at her constituency meeting. Stanton has over 500 employees. While I recognize there are employee concerns out there, very clearly we also have, for the most part, a facility that is running very well. What I am prepared to offer the Member is if the Member is interested as a chair of the Social Programs committee, I would be happy to set up a full briefing for the committee and bring in the deputy minister, we could bring in the folks from Stanton. We can work through the issues that have been raised, some of which are very sweeping. There is reference to some very specific labour issues which need more detail on to be able to address through those appropriate processes. Very clearly, we are more than willing to do that. I am not prepared at this point to bring in outside individuals to do something. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Miltenberger. Supplementary, Ms. Lee.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I have to tell you I can pick up the phone anytime and talk to the deputy or CEO or the Minister. That's not the level of response I am looking for when we are dealing with issues like this in the House. Mr. Speaker, I think he shouldn't be taking lightly when at least 23 people between Mr. Ramsay and I, and there are other Members...We have had dozens and dozens of employees at Stanton Hospital raising the same issues. I do not jump at one person calling me until I verify the information. I am telling you, the Minister has got to be aware. There is a serious condition happening and I believe it can only be done by an independent look at what is going on. Could I ask the Minister, when is the last time -- and I am really surprised that he doesn't have an answer in 24 hours because I think if he wanted to, he could have it -- he looked at how many people are leaving the hospital, what was the length of their stay and what are the reasons why they are leaving? When is the last time he looked at that, Mr. Speaker?

Thank you, Ms. Lee. Mr. Miltenberger.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I have four pages of some of the responses of some of the issues we talked about in terms of the chemotherapy, the staffing concerns, the job evaluation appeals, the strategic plans. I haven't been sitting idly by and I just didn't make a general request to the deputy. Yes, the deputy used to be the CEO of Stanton. Yes, he is aware of a lot of the issues. However, the Members talked to me and made a number of sweeping statements about labour relations issues. There is a whole number of appeal processes. If they want me to pursue specific cases, then I can do that, but I would need more detail. If they are just opposed to the process or the classification, then we can have that debate. We monitor on a regular basis and I would be more than happy to give the whole raft of information we have on staffing, vacancies, exit interviews, length of service to look at. There are different vacancy rates depending on the type of profession, but very clearly we have a very full team monitoring all the time the work that's being done. If the Member is also implying that somehow I shouldn't be believing what the deputy is telling me or what the CEO is telling me and there are some other real facts out there, then I would have to disagree because I have every confidence, clearly, in the management of the CEO and the deputy and the work they do. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Miltenberger. Final supplementary, Ms. Lee.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I might remind the government that this is exactly what we were told when we had issues with the correctional centre. I am telling you right now that I am not suggesting that the Minister should not accept what the deputy ministers are saying. What I am saying is I don't believe they are getting all the information they need to get from the front-line workers. I would like to ask a very specific question because there are a lot more questions here that I am prepared to pursue over the next two and a half weeks. I would like to ask the Minister, not just looking at the vacancy numbers, when is the last time he inquired as to who is leaving the hospital, what was their length of stay and why? Is there any mechanism in place for the Minister, deputy minister or CEO to know who is leaving and why? Thank you.

Thank you, Ms. Lee. Mr. Miltenberger.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, that information is available and collected through the HR system. We monitor that on a regular basis.

The honourable Member for Kam Lake, Mr. Ramsay.

Point Of Order

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I would like to stand on a point of order. I think I clearly heard the Minister of Health and Social Services threaten my wife. She's an employee at Stanton Territorial Hospital. She wasn't one of the 17 health care professionals that showed up at my constituency meeting with these concerns nor was she one of the seven that showed up at my colleague Ms. Lee's constituency meeting, Mr. Speaker. I take great exception to the Minister threatening me and I think I heard him say my brother, who used to work at North Slave Correctional Centre. Mr. Speaker, I will go back and I will say this for the record, if the Minister doesn't want to take the word of his deputy, that's his business. What I am saying and I want to point out, for the record, is the former Minister of Justice didn't want to listen to the rank and file staff at North Slave

Correctional Centre. He listened to the senior bureaucrats. What happened there, Mr. Speaker? We went through a long, protracted human resource review of that facility. You know what? They came up with 63 recommendations. How have those recommendations been acted upon?

Thank you, Mr. Ramsay.

Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Ramsay, for your point of order. I am going to allow a little debate on this because I don't recall exactly the words that...Mr. Ramsay. I will allow some debate on the point of order. To the point of order. The honourable Minister of Health and Social Services, Mr. Miltenberger.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, clearly, it's a matter of fact that the Member's brother did work at the North Slave Correctional Institute during that time period that he referenced. Clearly, his wife is an employee at Stanton Hospital currently. However, my intention is not to threaten the Member; it's to make a point just to reflect those facts. If I have caused him discomfort or caused him any unhappiness, then I would be very happy to withdraw that particular comment as it may be recorded in Hansard. My intention is not to drag his spouse into this, but just to point out that there is a clear connection. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Miltenberger. To the point of order. Member for Range Lake, Ms. Lee.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, before the Minister got up and spoke on the point of order, I was thinking to myself I did not hear what was said, but if what the Member from Kam Lake is saying is true, that would cause me a great deal of concern, Mr. Speaker. We are well aware that every Member in this House has spouses, families, children. This is a small community. There are 40,000 people in 33 communities. I bet you there are not many degrees of separation between all of us. Two or three connections will connect us to everybody. It is paramount to our privilege as a Member that we are free of no intimidation or any limitation in discussing issues here. We should not be threatened in any way. If the Minister, if he said anything like what he said like I am understanding, if he made any mention of the fact, I would take great exception to that and I think that should be withdrawn and apologize and the significance of that sort of action should be taken note of.

It's so important for the work that we do that we are totally free from any sense of limitations that could come from statements like that, Mr. Speaker. I await your ruling on this very important point. Thank you.

Thank you, Ms. Lee. Mr. Ramsay, could you clarify under what rule you are raising your point of order?