Debates of Aug. 22nd, 2007

Good afternoon, colleagues. Welcome back to the House. Orders of the day. Ministers' statements. The honourable Minister of Education, Culture and Employment, Mr. Dent.

Good choice, Mr. Speaker. Thank you. Mr. Speaker, self-reliance is one of the core values of northerners and this government. It is an essential part of the vision of this Assembly. Northern people should have the tools and resources they need to function independently and to exercise self-determination.

In the summer of 2004, this government started planning for the redesign of income security programming in the Northwest Territories. Government staff undertook a review of all income security programs. They discovered that there are 17 programs in the government as a whole being delivered by seven different departments. Approximately $120 million is spent each year on these programs, with roughly half that amount being administered by the Department of Education, Culture and Employment through seven programs. Some provide "hidden" support, like the NWT power subsidy, while others, like the Income Assistance Program, are delivered directly to clients.

This review resulted in a policy framework that was approved in September 2005. Following that, the Department of Education, Culture and Employment was directed to develop an implementation plan outlining how the redesign of the GNWT income security programs would be carried out and how other departments would be involved.

The development of a comprehensive Income Security Program model based on the approved policy framework was also required.

It was important to understand what northerners wanted in an income security system. We gained this understanding through a consultation process. This consultation, and in fact the entire review of income security, was greatly aided by the support and advice of many people from non-government agencies, in particular:

• • Lyda Fuller, executive director, YWCA
• • Jane Whyte, executive director, YACL
• • Barb Hood, executive director, NWT Seniors' Society
• • Cecily Hewitt, executive director, NWT Council of Persons with Disabilities
• • Arlene Hache, executive director, Centre for Northern Families
• • several representatives from the Salvation Army; and
• • Aggie Brockman, Alternatives North.

As well, regional meetings were held to hear advice from individuals and organizations including:

• • the Hay River Seniors' Society
• • Aurora College
• • Fort Smith Uncle Gabe's Friendship Centre
• • Fort Smith Seniors' Society
• • the Inuvik Interagency Committee
• • the Inuvik Homeless Shelter
• • health and social services boards
• • the Tlicho Community Services Agency
• • the Yellowknife Chamber of Commerce
• • representatives of aboriginal and municipal governments.

I would like to thank all of the people who were involved in this and who continue to work with us to improve our social programs.

Based on what we learned through research and discussions with northerners, we developed an income security model to serve as a framework for supporting people in need. This new model was released this month.

The new model abandons the notion that income security programs are programs of last resort. It creates a program specific to the needs of seniors, persons with disabilities, families and single people. It emphasizes the importance of government departments and other agencies working together to meet the unique needs of individuals and families. It provides an adequate level of support for those with zero income and reduces this support by a percentage of income. Finally, this model will ensure access to all programs in all communities.

This model is not an across-the-board linear increase in benefits for northerners. It is intended to ensure that northerners are treated more equally and those who are

able are always rewarded for working towards self-reliance.

Benefit levels have been established using evidence linked to formulas that account for the cost of living through the Northwest Territories. The definition of income has changed to ensure that people are treated equally across the territory.

Government service centres will be established in all northern communities over the next two years. These service centres will provide a point of access for all income security programs and services.

Changes based on the new income security model have already been developed for Education, Culture and Employer's income assistance programs, and will go into effect in September 2007. We have set the stage for further changes to income security programs in the future with priority being given to the public housing rental subsidy.

In addition to the changes surrounding income assistance, I am pleased to announce that a new subsidy has been made available for low income parents through the Student Financial Assistance program. They will now be able to apply for a childcare user subsidy to help fund the cost of childcare while they attend class.

For the changes in our philosophy related to income security to be successful, they need to be viewed an essential part of a larger package. It is important that we use a coordinated approach to provide consistent support to help people move towards self-reliance.

This new approach should, over time, help us reduce poverty in the NWT, and lead to more self-sufficient individuals and families throughout the NWT.

---Applause

Thank you, Mr. Dent. Ministers' statements. The honourable Minister of Health and Social Services, Mr. Roland.

Mr. Speaker, I would like to express my appreciation to nurses across the NWT for their dedication and commitment in providing health care services to the people of the NWT.

---Applause

I am pleased to report the GNWT is showing significant progress towards the stabilization of the nursing workforce throughout the NWT, despite the continued nursing shortage across the country.

Summer is often one of the most difficult periods for ensuring stable health care services at the community level. For the first time in many years, we have been able to maintain services in every community and, to date, not one health centre has closed due to a nursing shortage.

---Applause

Our partnership with Aurora College in offering a four-year nursing degree program has formed the foundation for establishing a stable northern nursing workforce. Through the Graduate Nurse Placement Program, this government has made a commitment to offer indeterminate employment to all successful Aurora College nursing graduates who acquire a licence to practice nursing in the NWT. In addition to the four-year program offered through Aurora College, we have invested in specialized training to prepare nurses to work in areas such as dialysis, obstetrics, ICU and operating rooms.

More recently, stability for nursing services in the smaller community health centres has improved. Approval of job sharing arrangements, increased emphasis on recruiting nurses and investment in the Community Health Nurse Development Program are beginning to show positive results. It is important to note that these home-grown solutions are decreasing the dependency on agency nurses. We are currently utilizing four agency nurses, a significant decrease from the daily average of 13 agency nurses used a year ago.

Over the past summer, I had the opportunity to travel to some of the communities. In each of the health care centres I visited, I was pleased to hear the enthusiasm and positive comments from nurses for the work they do.

The GNWT will continue to invest in recruitment and retention of nurses and other allied health professionals. The people of the NWT deserve excellent health care, and we are committed to supporting health care workers to ensure they have the resources to serve northerners.

I would like to thank our partners for continuing to work with the government to build and sustain a northern workforce that meets the needs of NWT residents and maximizes the number of northern-trained nurses in our health care system. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

---Applause

Thank you, Mr. Roland. Ministers' statements. The honourable Minister of Environment and Natural Resources, Mr. McLeod.

Mr. Speaker, I would like to take a moment to announce the successful launch of three new programs that are helping consumers all over the territory to be more energy efficient, save money and reduce greenhouse gas emissions.

The Energy Efficiency Incentive Program was launched July 6th as part of a three-program initiative. It is a $750,000 program that provides rebates to residents and businesses that purchase energy efficient models of the products and appliances we use every day. These include snowmobiles, outboard motors, woodstoves, pellet stoves, furnaces and other appliances, as well as vehicles and home renovations. The program is delivered through a partnership with the Arctic Energy Alliance.

In the first month of the program, we received almost 60 completed applications for rebates from 10 different communities. To date, more than $13,000 in rebates have been approved. Applications are coming in at a rate of three or four a day and the number of applications continues to grow. The feedback from retailers has been excellent and they report sales of energy-efficient products have grown.

We expect a surge in applications with the reinstated EnerGuide program, doing home audits again and with the fall heating season upon us. This program is one way the Department of Environment and Natural Resources is encouraging residents and businesses to make home energy efficiency a part of their everyday lives.

The Alternative Energy Technologies Program and the Energy Conservation Program are two other ways my department encourages energy efficiency. The first is a $300,000 program, designed to encourage communities, businesses and residents to monitor local wind regimes and install renewable energy technologies like solar panels, wind turbines and ground source heat pumps. This program has received considerable interest and we can expect to see more alternative energy installations around the territory.

The Energy Conservation Program provides $200,000 in contributions to community governments and non-profit organizations annually for energy-efficiency projects such as retrofitting buildings and replacing boilers and streetlights.

In addition to these programs, Mr. Speaker, the Department will begin working with retailers in the fall of 2007 to promote the use of the new generation of compact fluorescent light bulbs.

We want to encourage NWT residents to use these programs. Members of the Legislative Assembly should promote these programs in their constituencies. With increased promotion, these programs will be able to reach their full potential in saving people money, energy and greenhouse gas emissions.

---Applause

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Ministers' statements. The honourable Minister of Industry, Tourism and Investment, Mr. Bell.

Mr. Speaker, I would like to introduce the Traditionally-Tanned Moosehide Program, developed by the Department of Industry, Tourism and Investment, to ensure the continuation of traditional tanning skills and the supply of quality materials for our northern artists and craftspersons.

---Applause

This pilot program will begin utilizing hide distributors in Norman Wells and Enterprise. These distributors, experts in assessing quality hides, will grade and purchase traditionally smoked and tanned moosehides from NWT producers and sell the hides to artists and craftspersons at the purchase cost.

Mr. Speaker, the traditional tanning process takes much time, skill and hard work, but we believe that establishing a guaranteed market for these hides will encourage more production.

This is a winning solution for both the tanner and the artist. The tanner knows that payment is forthcoming for their hard work and the artist is confident that cost-effective hides will be readily available to support their craft efforts.

This program continues to confirm the government's commitment to support our traditional economy and provide new economic opportunity for harvesters and artists in our smaller communities. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

---Applause

Thank you, Mr. Bell. Ministers' statements. Members' statements. The honourable Member for Range Lake, Ms. Lee.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, in 2006, the United Nations Association in Canada established a national initiative designed to promote diversity and reduce racism in Canada. UNA-Canada launched a project entitled "A Sense of Belonging" and established partnerships with local agencies in nine communities across Canada, one of which was the Centre for Northern Families in Yellowknife.

The United Nations Association is a Canadian non-governmental organization mandated to promote UN programs and activities within Canada. UNA-Canada sees itself as the people's movement for the UN.

Mr. Speaker, in fulfilling the mandate of the Sense of Belonging project in the NWT, the Centre for Northern Families' Immigrant and Ethno-cultural Program, directed by Carolina Perdomo with the support of UNA-Canada and funding from Heritage Canada, has partnered to offer several information sessions to the public and carried out a consultation process with young people from both the aboriginal and ethno-cultural community.

Yesterday, Mr. Speaker, a film presentation of the youth consultation was highlighted at a UNA-Canada roundtable session which was the follow-up of last year's regional panel meeting. The roundtable explored priority areas and identified action items related to building a cohesive community, increasing civic participation by all sectors of the population and promoting religious and cultural diversity.

The work of UNA-Canada and the Centre for Northern Families of this exciting project in the NWT will be highlighted at a national conference in the spring of 2008.

In addition to the Sense of Belonging project, I am pleased the United Nations Association in Canada continues to expand its commitment to the North on several other fronts. UNA-Canada appointed a national board of director to represent the North and included the communities of Behchoko and Yellowknife in a national consultation process related to community perceptions of children's health. Children nine to 12 years old in both communities were directly involved in providing input into the Healthy Children, Healthy Communities project which identified social determinations of health among Canada's children.

As well, Mr. Speaker, UNA-Canada hopes to create a northern model United Nations conference that will involve

college-level youth from across the territory. This model UN will simulate the activities of various UN bodies and be a significant opportunity to help northern...

I am sorry, Ms. Lee. Your time has expired.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. May I seek unanimous consent to finish my paragraph? Thank you.

The honourable Member is seeking unanimous consent to conclude her statement. Are there any nays? There are no nays. You may conclude your statement, Ms. Lee.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I just want to say this model UN will simulate the activities of various UN bodies and be a significant opportunity to help northern youth realize their own sense of global citizenship.

I commend the work of UNA-Canada and Centre for Northern Families and I ask this House to do the same and recognize them in the in the audience later. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

---Applause

Thank you, Ms. Lee. Members' statements. The honourable Member for Kam Lake, Mr. Ramsay.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I want to discuss some issues today surrounding the operation and the management of the Department of Human Resources. Recently, there have been two well-known incidents where the Department of Human Resources have had some very serious issues to address. The first, Mr. Speaker, was the breach of PeopleSoft last winter where employees' private information was available to others on PeopleSoft. This was known to staff of Human Resources. However, they failed to inform the Minister that there was a security breach in the software. This took place for about a month. I would like to know if the Minister or the Premier have taken any action on disciplining those involved in not telling them the truth.

The Audit Bureau has conducted a review of the security of the PeopleSoft system and it is supposed to be available some time by the end of this month. I would like to know if Members will be able to get a copy of this report before we all leave for the election.

The second item I want to highlight is the recent upgrade to the human resource information system known as PeopleSoft. I thank the Minister for his correspondence on this issue that we received lately but, again, I just don't believe that the Minister is getting the full story from Human Resources on what happened on that go live date of July 3rd. The company Answerthink was contracted to carry out the project. The problem is, Mr. Speaker, the contract was terminated on the exact same day, July 3rd, that the system went live. Would it not make sense to have a contractor who is responsible for the upgrade ready, willing and able to provide support after that go live date? There was no opportunity to fix it without the contractor there. Why was Answerthink not around? Who made that decision, Mr. Speaker? How many people went without a paycheque because of the failure of that system? In speaking to Answerthink directly, Mr. Speaker, they are in the process of coming back to Yellowknife to do some more work. They don't know anything at all about the Government of the Northwest Territories withholding any money in unpaid invoices.

Mr. Speaker, these two incidents highlight some very deep concerns that I have that this department is being mismanaged and that the Minister and the Premier continue to avoid dealing with the concerns that they have heard from Members of this House. The department, Mr. Speaker, has turned into a sweatshop, with senior employees routinely working hundreds of hours of overtime every month with no extra remuneration and no recognition. Mr. Speaker, I seek unanimous consent to conclude my statement.

The Member is seeking unanimous consent to conclude his statement. Are there any nays? There are no nays. You may conclude your statement, Mr. Ramsay.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. As you can understand, this is very hard on employees. While this is happening, others are being targetted for dismissal. With the suspension comes stress. Mr. Speaker, the whole environment that that department has just turned into is a very sour place to work. Some of the comments I have heard are, "You have to watch your every step." "I feel intimidated every day I go to work." "If things don't change at Human Resources, I will be leaving Yellowknife." These statements, Mr. Speaker, send off alarm bells for me. They should also wake somebody up across the floor that it is time we took the incidents, employees' concerns and the clients' concerns seriously and take steps to fix the problems at Human Resources. Mahsi.

---Applause

Thank you, Mr. Ramsay. Members' statements. The honourable Member for Inuvik Twin Lakes, Mr. McLeod.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, education is one of the most important issues we deal with in the Northwest Territories. Education is the key to our future. It is the key to the future of a lot of people across the Northwest Territories. Mr. Speaker, earlier in the summer, I had the opportunity, as we do most summers at the end of the school year, to attend the graduation ceremony of Grade 12s. We also get to attend the Aurora College convocation ceremonies. It always gives us a great deal of pride to attend these and see a lot of people going through the program.

One of the most important events that I like to attend, Mr. Speaker, is the Aurora College completion ceremony that is held in Inuvik. A lot of people there have dropped out of the school system. They haven't been in the school system for awhile. They decided to go back and probably get an education because, nowadays, you need to have your education. They understand that. That is the one I think that I am most proud of. I am very proud of these people because I know a lot of them. They have been out of school for awhile. They raised families. I have seen a

few of them have gone on to college and are actually starting to do quite well now. They are going to get their diplomas and degrees. These are a group of people that I am quite proud of.

Mr. Speaker, we still have some issues that I have brought up before on the Student Financial Assistance program. I noticed in the Minister's statement, he was talking about the benefit levels going up, depending on the cost of living. I am hoping that this applies to the student financial assistance where a student is going to school up North where there is a higher cost of living as opposed to a student going down south. The cost of living is a lot lower. If I read into this, I am hoping that has changed because of this formula he is talking about. That is something I think is quite important, because education is the future of our territory. It is the future of a lot of our people. It gives me a lot of pride to see more and more of these people continuing on with their education and getting better lives and better jobs. Eventually more people will continue on this course and we will all become quite self-reliant. This is going to help the Income Support Program too, because you will move more people off this program and starting to look after themselves like they should. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

---Applause

Thank you, Mr. McLeod. Members' statements. The honourable Member for Thebacha, Mr. Miltenberger.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I just spent the last couple of days attending the Water is Life Conference in Fort Smith. There were 400 delegates that registered for this conference. They came from across the Mackenzie River basin. We had representatives from the Sahtu, the Deh Cho, Akaitcho, South Slave, North Slave, all across northern Alberta and Saskatchewan. We had the grand chief from the Deh Cho, the grand chief from the Sahtu, the grand chief as well from the Tlicho. The issue is very clear that there is an abiding interest in what is happening with the water, and fear that things are not all and well when it comes to that particular resource, the resource that gives us life.

Mr. Speaker, the elders have met. The general registrants were meeting today, but the message has come from every corridor that there is concern, that there are things happening to the water, that there are resource development projects especially in Alberta that are having enormous impacts downstream in the Northwest Territories, and the need and the call to aboriginal governments and the concerned stakeholders as well as the territorial government to take the steps necessary to better protect the water and the land. We cannot sustain the kind of development, the untrampled development. We have no idea of cumulative impact either in Alberta or in the Northwest Territories in terms of all the resource development that is on the drawing board or are currently in place.

The fundamental concern is for the future generations, the ability to actually drink the water out of the lakes and rivers, that there is going to be wildlife available for the children and the future, that the communities will, in fact, be able to continue to live on the water.

There are going to be recommendations coming out of this conference. I hope they are very clear and strong. I carried the message that there is going to be a new government that is going to be in place here in six weeks and that the issue of the environment is going to become centre stage and have to be tied very closely to any economic strategy. We need that balance. People want to see that balance. That is going to be what the people tell us, I believe, from what I have heard so far at this conference. I look forward to those recommendations. I would like to thank the Akaitcho chiefs for organizing this and all the organizers that made this possible. Thank you.

---Applause

Thank you, Mr. Miltenberger. Members' statements. The honourable Member for Nunakput, Mr. Pokiak.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, Ulukhaktok is a picturesque Inuvialuit community located on the western part of Victoria Island. To the east lies Cambridge Bay and Nunavut.

During the COPE land claim negotiation, as a member of COPE I recall landing on the main street of a community for intense land claim discussions. But, more importantly, I remember the community rushing out of their homes to meet the plane with smiles and open hands ready to shake and hug the delegates as they arrived.

Mr. Speaker, the people of Ulukhaktok have depended on their traditional skills for many years. Today they continue to enjoy their traditional pursuits of hunting for caribou, muskox, seals, polar bears, and fishing for the most coveted prize of all, the Arctic char. I say coveted Arctic char because the people of Tuktoyaktuk rely on our families and friends from Ulukhaktok, Paulatuk and Sachs Harbour for this fish delicacy.

Mr. Speaker, today the people of Ulukhaktok depend on the jobs created by the hamlet, territorial and federal governments and recently the importance of recreational sports hunting and carving. There is one activity that the people of Ulukhaktok would like to continue and pursue, is the...(inaudible)...and printmaking.

A few years ago, the people of Ulukhaktok, especially the elders, were renowned for their printmaking all over the world. Mr. Speaker, in May, a report and update that repairs were done for the building related to the water and sewer repairs and the heating system of the Ulukhaktok Co-operative arts and crafts shop. These repairs were paid for by BDIC. The people working in the arts and crafts shop were very happy about these minor repairs. Mr. Speaker, in order to make the people of Ulukhaktok try and become self-reliant, this government must invest more funding to complete the repairs of the building. The Minister of ITI visited and saw first hand the arts and crafts shop, and he knows very well what needs to be done to repair the building, most specifically the printmaking and carving shop. I would like to extend my sincere appreciation to the economic development officer for the Inuvik region for his dedication to this project. He continues to work with the department and the people in Ulukhaktok, the chair and CEO of IRC and the MLA, for their support.

Mr. Speaker, as MLA for Ulukhaktok, I fully support the project for the repairs so that the people of Ulukhaktok can once again show their artistic talent...

Mr. Pokiak, your time for Member's statement has expired.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I seek unanimous consent to complete my statement. Thank you.

The Member is seeking unanimous consent to conclude his statement. Are there any nays? There are no nays. You may conclude your statement, Mr. Pokiak.

Thank you, colleagues. Mr. Speaker, as the MLA for Ulukhaktok, I fully support the project for the repairs so the people of Ulukhaktok can once again show their artistic talent to the people of the Northwest Territories, Nunavut, Canada and the international scene. In closing, Mr. Speaker, I am requesting, in confidence, that this government support the artistic talent of Ulukhaktok residents and will find the necessary funding to complete the Ulukhaktok arts and crafts shop so the residents can become self-reliant and eventually display the printmaking and artwork around the world. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

---Applause

Thank you, Mr. Pokiak. Members' statements. The honourable Member for Hay River South, Mrs. Groenewegen.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, in his Member's statement, Mr. Miltenberger said that water is life. That is true. Hay River gets its drinking water or potable water for our residents from Great Slave Lake. This has been the case for many years. There is a water intake line that goes into Great Slave Lake and brings water into Hay River.

Mr. Speaker, this spring, from May 16th to June 9th, there was a boil water order issued by the environmental health officer in Hay River. This is a big problem. This was during the time that we had about 1,000 or 1,100 extra people in town for the track and field meet. If there is a time that you need a drink of water, it is going to be the same things those kids were doing: racing down the track. This is a big challenge for our municipality because the Hay River isn't called the Hay River for nothing. It picks up a lot of silt or something along the way before it gets to Hay River, so normally in the spring it comes down. Traditionally, the water is kind of murky for a few days and then things settle down. We continue to enjoy the wonderful water from Great Slave Lake, but we have a problem now in that this system is not satisfying the current Canadian drinking water guidelines. In order to retain a water licence, this is something that needs to be dealt with. For the second largest community in the Northwest Territories to have a boil water order for almost a month is completely unsatisfactory. However, the solutions to this problem are not going to be cheap and they are not going to be easy to find.

Another complicating factor, of course, is the fact that a lot of residents of Hay River have trucked water so they have tanks. So the sludge actually builds up in the bottom of those tanks and needs to be cleaned. That is not an easy thing for people to do. That is not an easy thing for homeowners to undertake. So this is a very big challenge that is facing our town, complicated by the fact that, of course, as you all know, the water sewer subsidy from MACA for Hay River was reduced by $200,000 this fiscal year. We not only have an ongoing problem, we also have a capital challenge now. I will be looking to this government to support my community to ensure we can provide good quality drinking water in the future going forward. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

---Applause

Thank you, Mrs. Groenewegen. Members' statements. The honourable Member for the Sahtu, Mr. Yakeleya.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I listened, with interest, to the Minister of Education, Culture and Employment talk about helping northerners achieve self-reliance. That is the point I want to talk about this afternoon.

Mr. Speaker, there are families in my communities in the Sahtu that are starting out to be self-reliant. They have jobs. There is a lot of activity going on there. As soon as they either enter the social housing or have a job and enter into a social housing unit, their rates of rent increase from nothing to $1,100 for one month. It leaves them very little in terms of helping their families and children. These are young people who we encourage to go to school, get a job, but it seems like nothing has changed for them.

Mr. Speaker, my people are asking, is there a process here where we could help them through self-reliance? This was once a very self-reliant nation of people. Throughout the years, we have become very dependent on government. So much now, we are trying to help them become self-reliant again. In this process, they want to pay for their own roof over their head. They want to pay for things for their children. They want to learn how to be self-reliant. But through the system, we engage and had them enforced by our housing associations and the local Income Support Program. It doesn't pay, they say. It actually discourages people to get into social housing. Is there a way that we can phase in this approach where they could have ownership? They want their own homes. Can we phase in a process like that where it would help the families build up the process where they would feel that they are making a contribution? Maybe one day they could own their own home. Right now, a lot of them are saying that the health program is a good program but it doesn't do enough for them. It doesn't secure them not to say, yes, we want a career, we want to advance our education. They say, as soon as we get our cheque, it goes right back to the government and just stops them from building and owning their own home.

Mr. Speaker, I will have questions for the Minister of Education, Culture and Employment. The big question is, how can we help our people be more self-reliant? Have them get into a place where they feel confident that they are making a contribution to their own people and have a

house that they can proudly say this home is my home. They can probably say welcome to our house. Thank you.

---Applause

Thank you, Mr. Yakeleya. Members' statements. The honourable Member for Monfwi, Mr. Lafferty.

Mahsi, Mr. Speaker. (Translation) Mr. Speaker, I will make a statement regarding the youth. In our Tlicho land, we have youth that play soccer. They have been in this sport for many years. They are recognized across our country not only here, but also in the United States. They also went to Europe for a tournament.

As a government, I have mentioned this many times in the past. So we are very happy that they win their tournaments. They went to the United States for a tournament and they came back in second place. As their families, parents, brothers and sisters, we are very happy. We want to thank them for their accomplishments. They are representing our country, so we are really happy about that.

I will mention their names: Marvin Migwi, Rusty Mantla, Kyler Apples, Tyler Sage, Gregory Black, Aaron Bekale, Marty Bouvier and also their coach, Michael Botermans. (Translation ends)

...future talented Tlicho soccer players. They have proven over and over that they can represent NWT and Canada at the provincial, national and international levels. Throughout their travels and tournaments, they have always prevailed, never let us down, Mr. Speaker. This is a testament not only to the commitment and talent of these young men and women, but even more important of the sport and recreation in our youth's lives.

Mr. Speaker, we are proud to highlight our talented and gifted young Tlicho athletes who participated at the 2007 Indigenous Soccer Cup in Albuquerque, New Mexico, earlier this month. Mr. Speaker, these are the same teams that received the NWT Team of the Year Award 2007, three that were awarded soccer scholarships. Mr. Speaker, I'd like to congratulate our 19 and under soccer team who won silver at the 2007 Indigenous Soccer Cup in Albuquerque, New Mexico. The tournament was hosted at the University of New Mexico in Albuquerque. After beating Arizona in the semi-finals 10-0, we lost to the host team from New Mexico in a championship final, 1-0. So close, Mr. Speaker.

---Applause

Mr. Speaker, I seek unanimous consent to conclude my statement. Mahsi.

The Member is seeking unanimous consent to conclude his statement. Are there any nays? There are no nays. You may conclude your statement, Mr. Lafferty.

Mahsi, Mr. Speaker. Mahsi, colleagues. They were very close.

---Laughter

Mr. Speaker, I'd like to have congratulations go out to Marvin Migwi, Rusty Mantla, both who are mentor coaches, and Kyler Apples, Tyler Sage, Gregory Black, Aaron Bekale, Marty Bouvier and Cordelia Bouvier and also their hard, dedicated coach, also like a father-figure for them, Michael Botermans. Mr. Speaker, it's always, always an honour to recognize these fine, talented Tlicho athletes and we will continue to do so. Mahsi.

---Applause

Thank you, Mr. Lafferty. Members' statements. The honourable Member for Tu Nedhe, Mr. Villeneuve.

Mahsi, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I'd also like to use my Member's statement today to recognize and congratulate seven students from Deninu Kue who have successfully completed high school and will be celebrating their graduation next month in Deninu Kue. The reason why they hold the graduation ceremonies in September, Mr. Speaker, is that the community and the school wants to ensure that all those who are marching down the aisle in the graduation ceremony have received notice that they have successfully passed all necessary courses required to graduate without any doubt. Mr. Speaker, I would be remiss if I did not mention the fact that this is the largest graduating class that has come out of the Deninu School ever since it has been built.

---Applause

I look to the future with optimism and excitement seeing more high numbers of grads coming out of our school system at the local levels thus having even more students from smaller communities with an opportunity to continue on with their higher education. That being said, Mr. Speaker, it gives me great pleasure to congratulate Jessica Sanderson, Stacy Lafferty, Destiny Lafferty, April Lizotte, Alma Mandeville, David Cardinal and Calvin Lizotte, Jr. on their graduation from Deninu School.

---Applause

I wish them all the best in their future endeavours and encourage all to become the best that they can be. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

---Applause

Thank you, Mr. Villeneuve. Members' statements. The honourable Member for Great Slave, Mr. Braden.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Two days from now, a major event, an historic event, will take place on the banks of the Deh Cho River and the community of Fort Providence. The event will mark the start of construction of the long anticipated, much beleaguered Deh Cho Bridge.

---Applause

Mr. Speaker, I am old enough...

---Laughter

...seasoned enough to remember the pro-bridge campaign of the 1970s when enterprising business owners here championed the building of a bridge, then estimated to cost in the single million dollar digits.

It has been a pledge of mine, and I think every other MLA for Yellowknife since then, to finally see a permanent, affordable link between Yellowknife and the Tlicho region with the rest of Canada. So I wish I could stand and endorse the Premier and the Deh Cho Corporation this Friday, but I cannot, Mr. Speaker. This is because the people and the businesses who will be paying for this project for the next 35 years have been kept in the dark about the costs and the impacts and the other options we have. There are substantive benefits, too, to this project but, likewise, we don't know what they will be.

Mr. Speaker, this is in stark contrast with the excellent job of public disclosure and debate that the government provided us in 2003. But now as the costs have mushroomed to more than double the estimate that we started with then and we face sustained crunches in future costs of materials and labour, the Premier continues to insist that everything is the same. It's not. The government has decided to kick in $2 million every year of new money; money that this government will need to finance other more vital projects. The Premier insists the toll will be the same as in 2002: $6. Technically that's correct, but let's remember that cost is indexed and at the rate of about 4 percent a year that means that by 2012, when this facility will be transporting traffic, the toll in real dollars is actually going to be $8.21 per tonne. Do the math, the real new math, Mr. Speaker. I would like to ask for unanimous consent, Mr. Speaker, to conclude my statement.

The Member is seeking unanimous consent to conclude his statement. Are there any nays? There are no nays. You may conclude your statement, Mr. Braden.

Thank you, colleagues and Mr. Speaker. One thing is the same and that is the federal government's silence on whether to come in with a serious contribution and do its part...

...to help build this important piece of infrastructure. Mr. Speaker, if Canada were to come in with $50 million, that's roughly the equivalent of only 66 days, barely three months, of the taxes and royalties they are now collecting from our resources.

What a difference that would make. Disclosure is what we really need to know and Canada's commitment. Those are what remain the barriers to public confidence and the affordability of this project and I sincerely hope that both will be delivered soon, Mr. Speaker. Thank you.

---Applause

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Members' statements. The honourable Member for Yellowknife Centre, Mr. Hawkins.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I wish to talk today about the need for a power generation and utilization strategy so we tap into our enormous hydro potential. There are a lot of people interested in hydro energy potential that exists in our NWT. The mines need a cheap, clean and abundant supply of energy to power their operations. The people of the NWT need a cheap, clean and reliable source of energy, too. There are a number of potential projects before us. There is a green corridor, the proposed east to west national power grid, and I'm very interested in the potential the NWT can play in their role in helping produce clean energy for Canada. Officials from TransCanada Power and ATCO are proposing a hydro development on the Slave River. Finally, in addition to the Taltson River project, there is also the hydro potential of Bear River and a number of small river projects with the potential to power a number of communities with cleaner and cheaper energy for our people, Mr. Speaker.

I would encourage this government, our government, Mr. Speaker, to complete a power generation and utilization strategy to take full advantage of our northern hydro potential. This hydro strategy, Mr. Speaker, should consider the development of a green corridor. Potential revenues from this project and others mentioned should be reflected in a macroeconomic study that could help everyone, Mr. Speaker. We know our hydro potential in the North is vast. We need a strategic plan to work towards this goal. Yet again, cheap energy so people can afford their power bills, clean energy so we're working with our greenhouse gas credits, and a strong, strong, clear supply of energy to our communities, with less power outages, Mr. Speaker. And best of all, most of this work has already been done; it just needs to be pulled together. It's about the bottom line sometimes, Mr. Speaker, because why can we deliver cheaper energy in some areas of the NWT and more expensive in other areas but yet we don't seem to be working together? It's time we take a bigger picture approach; it's time that this government stop peacemaking what really is an ineffective approach on how we're doing business. Mr. Speaker, a power generation utilization strategy is the balanced approach we need to start looking towards the future. Let's get our power working for us. Thank you Mr. Speaker.

---Applause

Thank you, Mr. Hawkins. Members' statements. Returns to oral questions. Recognition of visitors in the gallery. The honourable Member for Range Lake, Ms. Lee.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, it gives me great pleasure to recognize some of the people associated with the United Nations Association of Canada: project officers, Saad Omar Khan and Mara Brotman, both from Toronto.

---Applause

I think, actually, Saad might be from Ottawa. Sorry. Jeff MacKie, who is a national board of director for the NWT of

the United Nations Association of Canada. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

---Applause

Thank you, Ms. Lee. Recognition of visitors in the gallery. The honourable Member for Yellowknife South, Mr. Bell.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. It gives me great pleasure today to recognize Ruby Trudel in the gallery who's a constituent of Yellowknife South and somebody's who's done some wonderful advocacy work for women across the Territories as it relates to breast cancer. She's raised a lot of money, created a lot of awareness, and what struck me in her work was how she felt that this money needed to be targeted specifically for women in the NWT and her work in that respect. I want to thank her, on behalf of the people of the NWT, for that good work. Thank you.

---Applause

Thank you, Mr. Bell. Recognition of visitors in the gallery. The honourable Member for Great Slave, Mr. Braden.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I'd like to recognize Mr. Glen Abernethy, a lifelong resident of the NWT and Nunavut and a constituent of Great Slave. Thank you.

---Applause

Thank you, Mr. Braden. Recognition of visitors in the gallery. The honourable Member for Weledeh, Mr. Handley.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I'm pleased to recognize Marvin Zaozirny, a resident of Weledeh, an active community member and a recently retired DOT employee from our airports section. Welcome.

---Applause

Thank you, Mr. Handley. Recognition of visitors in the gallery. The honourable Member for Inuvik Boot Lake, Mr. Roland.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Today I'd like to welcome Mr. Jonathan Zaozirny, who's going to be taking part in one of our programs that we've offered to residents of the Northwest Territories. Jon was born and raised here in Yellowknife, took his education here at Mildred Hall and Sir John Franklin schools and he's recently received a medical bursary through the Department of Health and Social Services Northern Medical School Entry Program. Next week he will be taking a trip down to Alberta to take part in his first year of medical school at the University of Alberta. We will be watching and ensuring, hopefully, that he returns when he's successfully completed to practice medicine along with the other students that return here. Thank you.

---Applause

Thank you, Mr. Roland. Recognition of visitors in the gallery. If we've missed anyone in the gallery today, welcome to the House. I hope you're enjoying the proceedings. It's always nice to have an audience. Acknowledgements. The honourable Member for Nahendeh, Mr. Menicoche.

Thank you, Mr. Menicoche. Acknowledgements. The honourable Member for Great Slave, Mr. Braden.

Mahsi, Mr. Speaker. In two world wars, more than 7,000 Canadian aboriginal people enlisted to fight for Canada and an estimated 500 gave their lives in the service of their country. However, upon returning to Canada, the surviving aboriginal veterans did not get the equal treatment from the Canadian government in terms of grants and other assistance.

Mr. Speaker, a tireless champion to right this injustice has been Mr. Tom Eagle, a 25-year veteran of the Canadian Armed Forces, a constituent of Great Slave, and a respected elder and leader in the NWT for many years. I would like to acknowledge the presentation this July by the National Minister of Veterans Affairs of a commendation to Mr. Eagle in recognition of his advocacy. He continues to work for aboriginal and, indeed, all veterans. He's also chairman of the NWT/Nunavut Aboriginal Veterans Association and president of the Army Cadet League of Canada for our two territories. Mr. Speaker, congratulations to Mr. Eagle and, on behalf of all Canadians, our appreciation for his leadership. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you, Mr. Braden. Oral questions. The honourable Member for Thebacha, Mr. Miltenberger.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I have some questions for the Minister of ITI in follow-up to his Member's statement about traditionally-tanned moosehides and pilot projects, which I think is a good idea. Mr. Speaker, I estimate that annually around the community where I live, there are about 100 moosehides left in the bush over the course of moose hunting season. It's always struck me as a terrible waste because there is no place to have these hides taken to; there was no incentive to take them out of the bush; they're heavy, they take up space in your boat. I notice Enterprise is one of the communities that will be involved in this. I would just like to ask the Minister, if he can just indicate maybe a bit more detail in terms of what incentive is there going to be,

is there going to be a connection into the communities where moose hunting is such a viable pastime? Can the Minister indicate will there be any connection with, say, the Metis nations and the bands to make sure that there is some agreement or some process where these hides can, in fact, be brought out and put to use? Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Miltenberger. The honourable Minister for Industry, Tourism and Investment, Mr. Bell.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. We've had a lot of discussion around this program and I think there's a lot of interest in seeing this get off the ground. I understand, from some of the people who have some history in this government, that there have been attempts in the past to create and promote such a program. As the Member has indicated, we know that there are hides that are left to rot, and it seems a shame when we have so many people asking and inquiring about our crafts. I was just at the tourism operation at the border, spoke to the people there who are running the bureau there, and they were making the same case, that we just have this what seems an insatiable demand for traditional crafts and nowhere, really, to send people to find that. So we anecdotally know there's a demand. We want to work with the hunters and trappers, with the Metis, with the bands to ensure that we are marrying up those who can tan these hides with those who would produce crafts and ensure that there is a supply of crafts in communities. So, yes, we will work with all stakeholders. It's a pilot program but we're going to work across the regions of the NWT that have an interest in this and try to see if we can't revitalize crafts in the Northwest Territories. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Bell. Supplementary, Mr. Miltenberger.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, we're fast approaching the time when the boats are going to be hitting the water and they're going to be going up and down, in fact, hunting for moose. I know, in the past, one of the suggestions was that if, like with fur, that if ENR told the hunters going out that if you bring back the moosehides we'll give you $100 or whatever it is to cover the costs of the extra effort and time, and then ENR could, in turn, make sure that the hides are sent to the most appropriate location for the best use. Will something of that nature be in place in the next number of weeks or months to take advantage of the hunting season that's fast upon us?

Thank you, Mr. Miltenberger. Mr. Bell.

Mr. Speaker, we will ensure it is. There's a lot of interest, as the Member can imagine, I think, inside the department, which is where this program was generated; a lot of interest from those who work both in ENR and ITI in making this successful. They are eager to get this rolled out for this hunting season which is why we are unveiling this program at this point. So we will be working with our regional staff to roll out the details, make sure hunters know that the program is up and running and available, and hopefully we can generate a lot of interest. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Bell. Supplementary, Mr. Miltenberger.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, it's still not clear to me what type of incentive is envisioned to hunters to make them spend the extra time and effort to skin the moose, make sure they do it properly so they don't damage the hide, and then pack the hide up along with the moose meat to drag it back out of the bush onto their boats. It's heavy and it takes up a lot of space. So does the Minister have any idea, at this point, of some of the detail of what kind of incentive is going to be there in the next number of weeks to hunters to encourage them to bring those hides back? Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Miltenberger. Mr. Bell.

Mr. Speaker, our people are going to work with the hunters and with the HTAs to ensure that everybody is aware of the types of hides and the care that is required. We're also going to sit down and negotiate a guaranteed price. I don't have, at this point, what that guaranteed price will be, but the hunters will know, going out, the range of the price for the hide, know that it's dependent on condition and understand that there is an incentive to make sure that it's properly handled. So they will have this information before they go out, I'm sure. I don't know what the guaranteed price will be. We've discussed, this morning in discussion at Cabinet, the typical range for a moose hide in terms of pricing, but I don't have that information with me and I think it will be dependent on condition. I can assure the Member that our staff will work with those hunters before they go out and they will know the range of the guarantee in terms of price. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Bell. Final supplementary, Mr. Miltenberger.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. The final question is in regards to the chain of this production. So could the Minister indicate if there's going to be arrangements made with the hunter, there's going to be a middleman or if the hide is going to go to the producer who is going to tan it, and then from there it's going to be sold at cost to the people doing the arts and crafts that require this? Is that how this is envisioned? So there's going to be a number of steps along the way with the resource, some dollars changing hands, there's going to be some value added to the point where it finally hits as a tanned product onto the cutting tables of the artists and artisans that use this? Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Miltenberger. Mr. Bell.

Mr. Speaker, that's exactly how we envision the program working so that there is some incentive for the hunter who can make sure that these hides are properly tanned and that we have access to raw materials. I know Members in the House have been talking for some time about the raw materials required for craft production, the fact that we don't have a consistent supply. That is the piece and the link in this chain that has been missing that we are trying to deal with here and I hope very much that this can be successful. I know there have been past attempts at doing this and for a number of reasons it's been difficult. It is difficult work; it's very heavy; many of the hides were left to rot. I think the problem has been the financial incentive and the training and those are the two issues that we are hoping to address here, make sure it's worth people's while to provide these hides for craft production. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Bell. Oral questions. The honourable Member from the Sahtu, Mr. Yakeleya.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, my question is to the Minister of Education, Culture and Employment. I want to commend the Minister in terms of some of the hard work that his department, plus Members from this side, worked on the review of the Income Support Program review. The question I have for the Minister is in terms of supporting the goal of this government to provide meaningful tools to have our people be self-reliant. Is there sufficient flexibility within his department to have eventual assessments to look at the rent assessments to phase-in approach to people who are using these social housing units for their well-being? Is there a phase-in approach and is there flexibility? Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Yakeleya. The honourable Minister responsible for Education, Culture and Employment, Mr. Dent.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. As rents are changed by local housing authorities, that should have no significant impact on the amount of money that it costs a family to live in that house if they are in financial need, because the amount of subsidy that is provided through the Income Support Program or through the public housing rental subsidy will change according to the family's assessment. So as rents change, the subsidies might change as well so that there's an offset. We would hope that that would allow the sort of phase-in that the Member is talking about.

Thank you, Mr. Dent. Supplementary, Mr. Yakeleya.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. It should change, but it's not. So I want to ask the Minister, if a constituent of mine working a secure job wants to contribute to society and to family, the rent is $1,100 from nothing from last month. The rent is maximum right now $1,100. How can this program here help this constituent of mine in terms of being self-reliant, because nothing has changed? So again, is there some flexibility in looking at a phase-in approach to assessing the rent to allow them to come to a point where they feel that they could, with confidence, paying with confidence their rent at $1,100? Right now this person can't. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Yakeleya. Mr. Dent.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. It's hard to talk about a specific case without having all of the details. I will certainly commit to sit down with the Member this afternoon if possible to get the details and ensure that we have both the income support worker and, if necessary, the local housing authority work together to assess the situation this person might be in and see whether or not they're getting all of the benefits that they were entitled to from this government. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Dent. Supplementary. Oral questions. The honourable Member from Nunakput, Mr. Pokiak.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, as I indicated in my Member's statement with regard to the Ulukhaktok arts and crafts shop earlier today and I recall back in May when I requested information with regard to the renovations to the project, Mr. Speaker, I'm just wondering, if I recall, at that time the Minister of ITI indicated that he will get his department to do a complete study and do the report with regard to renovations in Ulukhaktok...(inaudible)...if that project has to be done. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Pokiak. The honourable Minister responsible for Industry, Tourism and Investment, Mr. Bell.

Mr. Speaker, thank you. We have been working with the community, with the co-op in Holman as a stopgap measure because the co-op has been shut down for some time. We found some money to go in and do some repairs to the building envelope and to the heating system I believe to ensure that the building wouldn't fall into further disrepair. Since that time, and with the goal, of course, of getting the co-op back up and running and producing the art that it is so famous for, since that time we've been working very hard with the BDIC to try to generate a business plan for the co-op. As a subsidiary, the government would make an investment here and it would be co-owned, joint-owned, and that's something that we've been working on. I think we're getting very close to being able to roll that concept out again and I think people across the North, and I know tourists, have been looking forward to seeing those arts and crafts, especially the prints, available as they go to Holman again. So I hope that we have a good announcement soon, but I can tell the Member that we are

working very diligently to try to revitalize the co-op. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Bell. Supplementary, Mr. Pokiak.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I appreciate the response from the Minister in regard to that. I think one of the things that's important is that, as I mentioned in my Member's statement, to be self-reliant, this is one of the opportunities that Ulukhaktok will have. The Minister indicated that BDIC is preparing a business plan with the government investment. I'm just wondering how close is that plan in coming into place? Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Pokiak. Mr. Bell.

Mr. Speaker, we think we're working out the final details. For instance, we think it can generate somewhere in the neighbourhood of 40 to 60 part-time jobs and a couple of permanent jobs in that community. It really can be an economic shot in the arm and I think it's going to reinstate a lot of the pride that that community had, and probably still has, in its craft production. But we know that we need to work with that community to make this happen. So I say we're close. I guess nothing is final until all the details are finalized, but I am optimistic that we will see this craft shop up and running. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Bell. Supplementary, Mr. Pokiak.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Thanks for that, Mr. Minister. I'd just like to ask the Minister on whether they are coming close in terms of funding for the completion of that renovation. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Pokiak. Mr. Bell.

Mr. Speaker, I think I got the question. It was about the funding for the renovations. I believe those renovations have been completed. I can't remember if in the business plan it also contemplates further monies for renovations. My tour, the last time I was in Ulukhaktok, of the facility, from a lay view it seemed to be a very good building. I know that there were some issues that we were seeking to address, but it's not like it needed a massive overhaul. So I can't tell you if there are further renovations contemplated, but I know that we did do some building envelope stuff to ensure that the buildings would make it through last winter. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Bell. Oral questions. The honourable Member from Monfwi, Mr. Lafferty.

Mahsi, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker...(Translation)...earlier, my statement that I made, there's a sports complex in Behchoko. They have a lot of activities happening in the sportsplex, but it has been closed for awhile for renovations and there were monies allotted to renovate it. (Translation ends)

...our government of Behchoko community and allocated funds from their capacity building fund towards the Behchoko sportsplex, the soon-to-be multi-purpose building, for a comprehensive retrofit and expansion. The redesign will turn the building into a multi-purpose hall including a library, youth centre, ice rink and gymnasium. The design work is currently underway and completion of what will amount to a new facility expected by 2009. The newly completed facility will add considerably to the quality of life in Behchoko.

Mr. Speaker, my question today is for the Minister responsible for MACA, Municipal and Community Affairs. Since the one-time funding of the capacity building will only cover the redesign of the building, Mr. Speaker, I would like to ask the Minister and his department of how they could assess and help with the project financially to see this important project complete so we can see more talented Tlicho athletes from the region? Mahsi.

Thank you, Mr. Lafferty. The honourable Minister responsible for Municipal and Community Affairs, Mr. McLeod.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, we'd be glad to sit down with the community of Behchoko to review the options to do more work on this piece of infrastructure. However, I'd like to remind the Member that the community capacity fund was indicated to be one-time funding only and with no ongoing support. There is some other programs that we may be able to target or maybe allow for some of the shifting of their infrastructure funding or lever some federal funding. I would have to sit down with the community and see what's available and what the plans are. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you, Mr. McLeod. Supplementary, Mr. Lafferty.

Mahsi, Mr. Speaker. I appreciate the Minister is willing to sit down with our current Tlicho leadership. At the same time, I'd like to get some sort of a commitment from the Minister and his department to move forward with this initiative. I realize capacity building is a one-time fund, which really helped out a lot of our communities.

Mr. Speaker, I'd like to ask my follow-up question to the Minister. Is the Minister of MACA open for partnership where the Tlicho Government, Behchoko Community Government, come out with some funds towards this important project. Could the Minister also commit towards this initiative via matching funds? Mahsi.

Thank you, Mr. Lafferty. Mr. McLeod.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, as part of the New Deal, we transferred our capital dollars over to the community to decide and prioritize their projects. I've not seen the proposal for the Tlicho. However, as I indicated, I'd need to see what the business case is for this project and where the dollars were planned to be allocated from and what we can do for them. I'd gladly have our staff sit down and review that. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. McLeod. Supplementary, Mr. Lafferty.