This is page numbers 4889 - 4926 of the Hansard for the 16th Assembly, 5th Session. The original version can be accessed on the Legislative Assembly's website or by contacting the Legislative Assembly Library. The word of the day was million.

Topics

Members Present

Mr. Abernethy, Ms. Bisaro, Mr. Bromley, Hon. Paul Delorey, Mrs. Groenewegen, Mr. Jacobson, Mr. Krutko, Hon. Jackson Lafferty, Hon. Sandy Lee, Hon. Bob McLeod, Hon. Michael McLeod, Hon. Robert McLeod, Mr. Menicoche, Hon. Michael Miltenberger, Mr. Ramsay, Hon. Floyd Roland, Mr. Yakeleya

The House met at 1:37 p.m.

---Prayer

The Speaker

The Speaker Paul Delorey

Good afternoon, colleagues. Welcome back to the Chamber. Orders of the day. Item 2, Ministers’ statements. The honourable Minister of Education, Culture and Employment, Mr. Lafferty.

Jackson Lafferty

Jackson Lafferty Monfwi

Mahsi, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I am glad to inform the Members today of the work underway towards a new strategy for supporting the nine official aboriginal languages of the Northwest Territories.

In the late 1990s, the Department of Education, Culture and Employment consulted with communities about developing a long-term plan supporting our Territory’s traditional languages. The strategy, Revitalizing, Enhancing and Promoting Aboriginal Languages: Strategies for Supporting Aboriginal Languages, outlines what the government was doing in support of healthy aboriginal languages in our communities. It was meant as a “living document” and modified as aboriginal language communities continued explaining their needs, defining priorities and taking greater responsibility for achieving their language goals.

In 2008, the Department of Education, Culture and Employment proposed renewing the strategy. The first step in the process was conducting a review of the current strategy, identifying areas where it can be updated and improved. The final report was submitted in November of 2009.

At the end of March, the Department of Education, Culture and Employment hosted the Aboriginal Languages Symposium in Yellowknife. The symposium was a great success, drawing over 200 delegates representing official language

communities, including elders, youth, language speakers, practitioners and other stakeholders.

Over the three days of presentations, meetings and workshops, we heard many good and innovative ideas of how to increase support for our traditional languages. I was impressed by the level of passion and commitment in the room, especially from our elders who inspired us not to forget where we come from. The ideas generated at the symposium will be posted on the Department of Education, Culture and Employment website shortly and will play a key role in shaping the new strategy. I would like to acknowledge Mr. Kevin Menicoche, MLA for Nahendeh and the chair of the Standing Committee on Government Operations, for co-hosting the symposium with me. Moving forward, we are planning more meetings and will table the final strategy in the fall session of the Legislative Assembly.

Once finished, the new strategy will guide the Government of the Northwest Territories on decisions about policy, priorities and supporting aboriginal languages over the coming years.

I am confident that by continuing working together, we will see more Northerners proudly using the traditional languages of their cultures.

Mr. Speaker, as Minister responsible for languages, I am also very excited to announce that on June 22nd and 23rd, the Government of the Northwest Territories is hosting the Ministerial Conference on the Canadian Francophonie for the first time. This conference is being co-chaired with the federal Minister for Official Languages, the Honourable James Moore. Mahsi.

The Speaker

The Speaker Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Lafferty. The honourable Minister of Health and Social Services, Ms. Lee.

Sandy Lee

Sandy Lee Minister of Health and Social Services

Mr. Speaker, as outlined in the Department of Health and Social Services action plan, A Foundation for Change, we are taking actions to ensure the accessibility to health care services is optimized for NWT residents.

As Members are aware, the incidence of colorectal cancer in the Northwest Territories is among the highest in the country. Men are 1.5 times more likely, and women 1.3 times more likely, to be diagnosed with colorectal cancer than their Canadian counterparts. Colorectal cancer is the second leading cause of cancer deaths in the Territory for both men and women. NWT Colorectal Cancer Advisory Committee in November 2009 report cites that 20 residents are diagnosed with this type of cancer each year in the NWT.

For this reason, in January of this year NWT Colorectal Cancer Screening Guidelines was issued by the department. The response to this important preventative measure has been very positive and has resulted in a long wait-list for endoscopy procedures. For non-urgent endoscopic procedures such as colonoscopy, gastroscopy and cystoscopy, the current wait-list for non-urgent procedure is up to two years.

To respond to this need and to reduce the wait times, I am pleased to announce today that the endoscopy blitz will take place in Yellowknife, Hay River and Inuvik. This involves the work of both local and locum specialists and the cooperation of many health authority staff who will coordinate this schedule.

For the first time, two one-week endoscopy blitzes are planned in Hay River; one from May 25 to 29 and one from September 21 to 25. The procedures will be performed by a specialist at a rate of 10 procedures per day. A total of 100 endoscopies will be performed on high need patients during the two weeks on clients from the South Slave region. This will more than complete the urgent and semi-urgent cases for the entire South Slave region.

For Beaufort-Delta region, plans are underway to have its own endoscopy blitz in the fall. This blitz will serve clients from the Sahtu region as well as Beaufort-Delta, who are currently on a waiting list.

Mr. Speaker, Stanton Territorial Health Authority is also finalizing a plan to maximize efficiency and to increase the number of procedures being performed to 10 procedures per day in order to reduce its wait-list. Together with two blitzes being planned in Hay River and Beaufort-Delta, we will decrease the wait-list at Stanton Hospital.

Mr. Speaker, endoscopy is a common procedure which includes colonoscopy and gastroscopy. Gastroscopy detects cancer of the stomach. The good news is that colorectal cancer is preventable, treatable and beatable. If detected early, this disease can be successfully treated 90 percent of the time.

Mr. Speaker, it is also important to note that wait-lists are consistently monitored and updated by clinicians based on need. As mentioned, we have wait-lists, and will continue to do so, as does the rest of Canada. Access to specialists and medical equipment continues to be a challenge.

By consistently monitoring and updating the wait-list and making better use of all of our health facilities and staff and working closely with our authorities, we are able to put together this territorial service plan to better serve our residents all across our regions.

I would like to thank the CEOs and medical directors in each authority for their leadership and commitment. It is by working as a territorial team, as envisioned in Foundation for Change action plan, that we will continue to meet the challenges of delivering essential medical services to the NWT residents.

I would also like to advise the House that in the next few days I will be announcing a mammography blitz in South Slave region aimed at improving breast health screening and early detection of breast cancer. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

The Speaker

The Speaker Paul Delorey

Thank you, Ms. Lee. Ministers’ statements. Item 3, Members’ statements. The honourable Member for Mackenzie Delta, Mr. Krutko.

David Krutko

David Krutko Mackenzie Delta

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I had an opportunity to travel to 10 communities with the Social Programs committee on the review of the child and family services legislation. As part of the tour we took the time to listen to the MLAs, community leaders, and also through public meetings hear from the residents throughout the Northwest Territories.

We had the opportunity to get an insight to the challenges all communities are facing. One thing that stood out in my mind, of the challenges that they are facing in program and service delivery, was the lack of programs and services being delivered in our communities and housing. Without these fundamental programs and services, a lot of the government initiatives cannot be delivered.

In regard to the area of housing, it was very appalling to see the number of public housing units boarded up in these communities, yet communities insist on realizing that housing is one of the biggest challenges that they’re facing.

We as a government have to do a better job of ensuring the services we deliver and the challenges that we face such as housing. We have to ensure that we can not only deliver those programs and services but meet the fundamental needs of our residents.

From the Hay River Reserve we noted 12 units which were boarded up, because they were not being provided to the residents of the community. In talking to the chief and council we were told that they had asked the Housing Corporation to remove the housing from the reserve because they were not being used or occupied.

We heard the same thing in Fort Liard where a lot of money was put into the Kotaneelee Housing Project. Millions of dollars were expended on this retrofit and yet a lot of those units are boarded up and not being used because of vandalism.

We have to find a way to ensure that the programs and services we do deliver are used, are accessible, and are providing value to our communities. Hearing from the head nurse in Fort Liard, she said that they asked for the problem, the question directly, what is the biggest challenge you see here in Fort Liard. All she said was housing, housing, housing.

The Speaker

The Speaker Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Krutko. The honourable Member for Nunakput, Mr. Jacobson.

Jackie Jacobson

Jackie Jacobson Nunakput

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Today my Member’s statement is on substance abuse programs. Communities all across the Territories are continuously struggling with severe substance abuse problems. I’m sad to say that we’re leading in Canada in many of these areas as this problem progresses. Even more sad to say is that communities are coping with these challenges alone and there is very little support from this government.

I have spoken with the mayor of Tuktoyaktuk. He appreciates a contribution commitment for the years to run their centre. We hope we can start helping the people in similar ways as the House of Hope, which was operating as a place for people to go and gather and talk to counsellors about their addictions and evenings of fun things to interact free of alcohol. Funding is limited in the short term and more is needed. It is unreasonable for the government to expect community governments to contribute considerable amounts of their operational funding.

More than ever we need continuous support since we have, in Tuk, alcohol rationing in the community. We have compared the notes, since 2009 to 2010 that the criminal reports have been cut in half already. I feel alcohol restrictions are working, but we need support from our people to better ourselves. What we can hope for is to keep lobbying for the long-term system that we can work continuously, that we can work and plan our way to the future. With the residential school funding in jeopardy, this government needs to support small, remote communities even more than before.

The substance abuse situation and lack of real support services is in crisis. The Northwest Territories has been one of the highest levels of addiction needs per capita in Canada with one of the lowest expenditures in program assistance. This government continuously criticizes the lack of real initiatives that comes against the war against drugs and other forms of subsistence abuse, especially for our youth.

The government is in an excellent position to take the lead, work with all levels of government, including the federal government and organizations to create meaningful programs and infrastructure.

Mr. Speaker, I understand the government continues to spend millions out of the province in support resources.

Mr. Speaker, I seek unanimous consent to conclude my statement.

---Unanimous consent granted

Jackie Jacobson

Jackie Jacobson Nunakput

Mr. Speaker, I see the government continues to spend millions out of province in support resources only for participants to return to their home communities without aftercare. That’s not only not compassionate, it makes no business sense, Mr. Speaker.

The root of all problems comes from these issues: kids not doing well in school, people in an endless cycle of social assistance, and dependencies on drugs and alcohol. The fact the communities lack real support from returning from substance abuse treatment is a shame, Mr. Speaker. I will have questions for the Minister of Health and Social Services at the appropriate time. Thank you.

The Speaker

The Speaker Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Jacobson. The honourable Member for Kam Lake, Mr. Ramsay.

David Ramsay

David Ramsay Kam Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I want to raise an issue today that I believe is something this government cannot continue to ignore. This issue is the impending closure of the City Centre Airport in Edmonton.

The City Centre Airport receives approximately 4,500 medevac flights per year from northern Alberta, Northwest Territories and Nunavut. About 1,000 of these flights originate in the Northwest Territories. Of the 1,000 flights, typically 10 percent are of a critical nature. The Cross Cancer Clinic, Stollery Children’s Hospital and other health facilities at the University and Royal Alexandra Hospitals are established to serve the needs of critical care patients arriving from the Northwest Territories by medevac. The closure of the City Centre Airport will undoubtedly put lives in peril and cost this government thousands of dollars more in transporting our residents from the international airport.

Mr. Speaker, in an emergency situation, a STARS helicopter service will charge $2,500 an hour, and at the best of times it will take 30 minutes to get a patient from the international airport into a major hospital. A ground ambulance for a return trip to the international airport would be in the neighbourhood of $700.

Mr. Speaker, as the Members of this House are well aware, all jurisdictions across this country are dealing with ever-growing expenditures in health care. Here is an example of the City of Edmonton, who like to say they are the gateway to the North, showing little regard for the safety and well-being of our residents.

Make no mistake about it, Mr. Speaker, the closure of the Edmonton City Centre Airport will increase health risks for NWT residents. NWT residents will be exposed to longer flight times and riskier hospital transfers. And again, these increased patient risks will be accompanied by increased costs.

Mr. Speaker, where is our Health Minister at in this process? Has she had discussions with the mayor of Edmonton, the Premier or the Health Minister in Alberta to convey obvious concerns that this government would have? I have not heard her say anything publicly about it. Is she waiting for the bulldozers to move in or what, Mr. Speaker?

In life and death situations, minutes count and we owe it to our residents to champion the fight to keep the City Centre Airport open. We need to ensure all of our citizens have the best access to medical services when they need it the most. We need to find allies in northern MPs, MLAs and municipal politicians to lobby the City of Edmonton and province of Alberta to try and keep this airport open.

Mr. Speaker, I seek unanimous consent to conclude my statement.

---Unanimous consent granted

David Ramsay

David Ramsay Kam Lake

This closure will affect each and every community in the Northwest Territories and all of our residents. In the North, air ambulance service is a service that our residents depend on. Why doesn’t our government have anything at all to say about the closure of the City Centre Airport in Edmonton? Thank you.

The Speaker

The Speaker Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Ramsay. The honourable Member for Great Slave, Mr. Abernethy.

MEMBER’S STATEMENT ON

MOTORCYCLE RIDE FOR DAD

Glen Abernethy

Glen Abernethy Great Slave

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, the Motorcycle Ride for Dad is an event that raises funds and awareness to combat prostate cancer. The ride is in its 10th year nationally and this is the first year that it will be happening in the Northwest Territories. To date, the national ride is involved with over 100,000 people and raised over $5 million. The NWT Ride for Dad is proud to be adding to these impressive figures.

Prostate cancer is a deadly disease that most men try not to think about. In fact, most patients don’t even know they have it. Nationally, there are an estimated one million cases, 80 percent of which are undiagnosed. If caught early, this disease is curable and the ride is trying to make sure that men are talking to their doctors and, if necessary, getting tested.

The NWT Motorcycle Ride for Dad is also trying to make this a truly territorial event by encouraging riders from all over the Territory to take part. People who want to take part in the ride do not have to be a rider. They can get pledges to be a passenger if they know someone who has a motorcycle or they can raise pledges as a spectator. The ride is also always looking for donations, sponsors and volunteers.

Mr. Speaker, the ride will take place on Sunday, June 6, and will include a parade through Yellowknife, a poker run and a barbeque afterwards. Money raised from this event will go towards education awareness campaigns right here in the Northwest Territories. These funds will help to provide information about this disease and inform men about the risks of contracting prostate cancer, and encourages them to see their doctors and become better informed. So far there has been a huge amount of interest from sponsors and the general public and this is shaping up to be an excellent first year for what many hope will be an annual event in the Northwest Territories.

People interested in volunteering or making a donation can contact

[email protected]

and people who want more information can visit the website at

www.motorcycleridefordad.org\nwt

. Please support this worthwhile cause. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

The Speaker

The Speaker Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Abernethy. The honourable Member for Sahtu, Mr. Yakeleya.

Norman Yakeleya

Norman Yakeleya Sahtu

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Imagine going to the store and paying $8 for two kilograms of sugar or paying $4 for a litre of milk. Imagine not being able to cash a government cheque or if you do cash it, only getting half the cash and getting an IOU for the balance or even less; maybe getting $200 or $300 cash and the rest goes onto your account.

If you are living in the Sahtu community of Fort Good Hope, you wouldn’t have to imagine this, Mr. Speaker. You would be living it in colour or in black and white. In most of our small communities there are limited options for grocery shopping and cashing cheques, making it harder still the fact that perhaps eight months of the year there is no winter road. So we have no option but to shop locally and then in Fort Good Hope one of the two stores in town burned down and the option was even more limited. Everything is flown into the one store. Boy, oh, boy, you sure have to pay.

Mr. Speaker, in Fort Good Hope, people are paying $8.99 for a 2.5 kilogram bag of flour, $7.49 for 72 tea bags. Recent figures on the average weekly cost for a family food basket shows the cost in the Sahtu being almost twice as high as in Yellowknife.

Mr. Speaker, the people of Fort Good Hope need our help. At the co-op, the people own the building and the business. By gosh, it sure doesn’t seem a darn thing to them. They are getting gouged from this government through its fuel supplier or transportation company when it gets in trouble, by not getting enough gas for the community or subsidize the cost. I think we have to subsidize the cost of food in Fort Good Hope. I know fuel for cars and trucks and for houses is important, but, by golly, fuel for our children’s bellies has to be seen to be even more important. People hope that the winter road prices at the co-op would come down but that hasn’t happened. I think we need to declare a state of emergency or something, because if we don’t have a good job in Fort Good Hope, there are not too many good high paying jobs there. You cannot feed yourself or your family. You continue to go and get...

Mr. Speaker, what the co-op is doing, the cashing of cheques, sure seems wrong to me, giving an IOU or forcing to pay three-quarters of your cheque onto your account. Isn’t that extortion, Mr. Speaker? This is where the government can, and must, stand up for the people. It is time we got to sort this out. It is time we protect our people first and foremost. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

The Speaker

The Speaker Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Yakeleya. The honourable Member for Weledeh, Mr. Bromley.

Bob Bromley

Bob Bromley Weledeh

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. The government tabled their response to the electricity rate review and Power Corporation review recently. I would like to provide some additional perspectives on that.

First I would like to start with a few positive results of the recommendations in that report. The first is that a reduction in power rates for commercial users is real and especially in the very expensive communities. We need additional local economic development and this will hopefully help businesses with that.

The second is collapsing the rate system from 33 to seven rate zones. Surely we will enjoy a modest administrative gain there and a slight reduction in cost.

Finally, the government has agreed to stabilize rates, with no additional costs for the next two years. I think that will be a welcome relief to our ratepayers, although at what cost?

Mr. Speaker, what is the government really doing here? In my mind, they are largely simply shifting our costs from upfront rate rider ratepayer costs to behind the scenes costs to taxpayers, and they’re doing this in three ways. The first is buying out the rate riders at the rate of $3 million per year for the next two years, and, by the way, where is that money coming from? That’s money coming from the $60 million fund slated supposedly for energy efficiency and renewable energy, real reductions in costs. So we’re getting this artificial transfer of dollars to buy out the rate riders.

Secondly, we’re forgiving the dividends that the Power Corp normally pays to the government, which indirectly we use to help pay the subsidies. So, again, the taxpayer is picking up those subsidies which used to be minimized through those dividends.

Finally, Mr. Speaker, we’re adjusting our thresholds in communities where in every single diesel community the average consumption is already well below the current threshold of 700. We’re raising it to 1,000. We’re telling people go spend more energy, use more energy and we’ll provide the huge subsidies to cover those costs, which I don’t think is the message we really want, and it was the one saving grace of the current system. So that reduces the personal incentive to reduce energy use and offering these up as savings to local resident users is the ultimate shell game because, of course, those residents are not using that energy now.

The Speaker

The Speaker Paul Delorey

Mr. Bromley, your time for your Member’s statements is expired.

Bob Bromley

Bob Bromley Weledeh

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I seek unanimous consent to conclude my statement.

---Unanimous consent granted

Bob Bromley

Bob Bromley Weledeh

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. So, Mr. Speaker, we can expect in a couple of years from now a real shock as these realities of high fossil fuel prices and water shortages click in, as they of course will.

We’ve spent countless dollars on these reviews. I’ll be asking how much. It’s money that could have been spent on real reductions to real costs. What could those have been? The Lutselk’e and Whati mini-hydro projects, action on residual heat recovery in individual communities, the major savings the Arctic Energy Alliance has pointed out from switching water heaters, real action on local electrical generation through biomass, grid system development and so on.

So, Mr. Speaker, it’s time to stop this endless musing and jump into the future. I’ll file this report, along with all the others, and continue to devote my energy to getting this government to stop talking and start acting. Mahsi.

The Speaker

The Speaker Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Bromley. The honourable Member for Frame Lake, Ms. Bisaro.

Wendy Bisaro

Wendy Bisaro Frame Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I’m going to follow up on my colleague Mr. Bromley’s comments and speak, as well, about the electricity review response, and we are not in collusion.

As Members are aware, the Minister of ITI tabled the government’s response last week and the changes outlined in that report will have a huge impact on power rates for our NWT communities, and I feel it is a significant achievement for this Assembly. Though, Mr. Speaker, I cannot fully endorse the report.

I’m concerned about the philosophy, which underpins the substance of the report, and I have concerns about some of the recommendations. There’s no doubt that most of our residents struggle with the high cost of living and that one of our greatest costs is the cost of power. The plan outlined in the government’s response will positively impact our residents by reducing their cost of living, both at home and at the store.

Mr. Speaker, we’ve missed the golden opportunity that this review process offered us. We had an opportunity to make substantial and real changes to the way our electricity system operates. We could have found substantive efficiencies and reduced the huge subsidies that the government pays out to keep our power costs down, but that we did not do. Instead we did minimal revamping, shuffled the subsidies from one pocket to another and missed a great opportunity to effect real change and to find real and systemic savings.

What am I worried about? A couple of things. Firstly, this is only a two-year plan and in that two years rate riders will be paid off to the tune of about $6 million; taxpayer dollars. Power rates will be frozen, but what increases will be waiting to pounce on us in the fall of 2012? Production costs, fuel, materials and so on never seem to go down, only up, and that can only result in increased power rates. I fear a jump in our power rates at the end of this two-year period. I think we’re going to experience rate shock.

Secondly, there will be no adjustment of the power rates for government customers at this time. I see that as artificially inflating NTPC’s revenues and I ask again what will be the impact on rates and on the system when those are reduced as we are told that they will be?

There are some elements of this plan which are positive, it’s not all bad, but I regret that both the electricity and the NTPC reports did not look for systemic changes which would reduce the cost of power generation and distribution. Instead we have a report that moves money from the government’s right hand to its left hand and which leaves us with an uncertain electrical future.

The Speaker

The Speaker Paul Delorey

Thank you, Ms. Bisaro. The honourable Member for Nahendeh, Mr. Menicoche.

Wrigley Water Tanks
Members’ Statements

Kevin A. Menicoche

Kevin A. Menicoche Nahendeh

Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker. [English translation not provided.]

In this month’s edition of The Native Journal there’s a news brief about investment of $7 million by DIAND in the Atlantic region. Almost half of this funding is being directed to water and wastewater projects in First Nation communities. Funded projects include water and sewer lot development, water and wastewater improvements, and water tank maintenance. All across Canada there are issues and challenges related to water and wastewater management. There are also problems in the Northwest Territories.

Presently the health inspector is checking Wrigley’s water tanks in the homes to determine their safety, and residents have also asked the doctor in Fort Simpson to do some tests. The people in Wrigley have experienced problems with their water tanks. The water in Wrigley is very hard and this leads to scale forming and building up on the inside of water pipes. This, in turn, leads to clogged water pipes that block the water tank flow. Eventually the pipes are clogged and these tanks and pipes must be replaced.

Many homeowners cannot afford to replace their water tanks. If there are arrears with the Housing Corporation with payments, they cannot access funds from any of our housing programs.

Clean water is a health issue. There are cases where DIAND had provided funding for tank replacement. I believe that this government, either through the Housing Corporation or Health and Social Services, should provide program funding to residents of Wrigley to maintain and replace water tanks. In this way the most basic necessity of healthy, clean water, will be available to them.

Wrigley Water Tanks
Members’ Statements

The Speaker

The Speaker Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Menicoche. The honourable Member for Hay River South, Mrs. Groenewegen.

Green Energy Initiatives
Members’ Statements

Jane Groenewegen

Jane Groenewegen Hay River South

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Not by collusion, I want to speak to the electricity rate review and the good news. Minister Bob McLeod was down to Hay River on the weekend and spoke to the NWT Association of Communities, and the news about the power rates was well received and the people are looking forward very much to those next couple of years of some relief on their power bills.

We need to view that two years as a window of opportunity to get very serious with that substantial amount of money that we have set aside as a government to consider green energy initiatives. One of those is the whole idea of biomass. I’m happy and proud of the government that they have been moving toward pellet boilers in some of the capital infrastructure in the South Slave and even here in Yellowknife. We only have this money set aside for a certain amount of time and we need to make sure it is well used.

I have characterized this temporary offset that will help with the cost of living over the next two years as just a time in which we need to take that $60 million and literally do an end run on some of the things that are costing the people of the Northwest Territories so much in our communities. That is in the area of energy.

We have an opportunity with the vegetation and inventory of trees in the Northwest Territories to create a pellet mill here to make pellets. We have a transportation infrastructure in Hay River to even ship those pellets down the Mackenzie River to other communities. The inventories are there. The capital, I believe, is there and the money that we’ve set aside. And we need to find a proponent, maybe an operator, we need to find a location. Might I suggest it should be Hay River? We have people there who are already very experienced in the sawmill business. The product that would be turned into pellets could be a by-product of the harvesting that would be done and the loggable, sizable trees that could be turned into lumber.

We have a great opportunity before us, but I would like the energy and heat created from the $60 million to be more than the BTU created by the burning up of the many studies that we could waste it on.

Green Energy Initiatives
Members’ Statements

The Speaker

The Speaker Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mrs. Groenewegen. Colleagues, before I proceed with the orders of the day I’d like to draw your attention to the visitor’s gallery and to the presence of Mr. Bruce McLaughlin, former Member of this House and representative from the riding of Pine Point.

Item 4, returns to oral questions. Item 5, recognition of visitors in the gallery. The honourable Member for Kam Lake, Mr. Ramsay.

Recognition of Visitors in the Gallery
Recognition of Visitors in the Gallery

David Ramsay

David Ramsay Kam Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I’d like to recognize, as well, Mr. Bruce McLaughlin, former Minister, former Member of the House.

As well in the gallery today is Ed SchlemKo, director of flight operations for Airco from Edmonton, Mary Anne Stanway, who is with the Kingsway Business Association in Edmonton, and Dr. Joseph Fernando, aviation medicine specialist.

Recognition of Visitors in the Gallery
Recognition of Visitors in the Gallery

The Speaker

The Speaker Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Ramsay. If we’ve missed anyone in the gallery today, welcome to the Chamber. I hope you’re enjoying the proceedings. It’s always nice to have an audience in here.

Item 6, acknowledgements. The honourable Member for Frame Lake, Ms. Bisaro.

Acknowledgements
Acknowledgements

The Speaker

The Speaker Paul Delorey

ACKNOWLEDGEMENT 6-16(5):

BUSINESS ADMINISTRATION CERTIFICATE AWARDED TO KAREN HORN

Acknowledgements
Acknowledgements

Wendy Bisaro

Wendy Bisaro Frame Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I’d like to take this opportunity to acknowledge the accomplishment of Frame Lake constituent Ms. Karen Horn. Ms. Horn is employed by Aurora College and she has been a stalwart at the Yellowknife Campus for many years now. She recently completed the first step towards a bachelor degree in Business Administration. At the YK Campus graduation held May 1st, Karen was one of the graduates receiving her Business Administration Certificate. I offer my congratulations and wish her every success as she continues her education journey.

Acknowledgements
Acknowledgements

The Speaker

The Speaker Paul Delorey

Thank you, Ms. Bisaro. Item 7, oral questions. The honourable Member for Mackenzie Delta, Mr. Krutko.

David Krutko

David Krutko Mackenzie Delta

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. My questions are directed to the Minister of the Housing Corporation. In the last session there was a document tabled regarding the housing needs in the Northwest Territories. It showed that we are not meeting the needs of the residents of the Northwest Territories. If anything, things are getting worse. I think it’s important to realize that, as a corporation whose responsibility it is to deliver social housing in the Northwest Territories and to ensure that we’re able to bring down the needs of our residents and meet the challenges that we are facing.

One of the biggest challenges we’re facing, as I stated, in our term in the area of Fort Wrigley was a problem they are facing with overcrowding and mould in a lot of their residences. This is a problem not only to the health effects of the residents but also to the social effects of overcrowding.

One of the things that I’ve also mentioned in my statement was the number of houses that are sitting empty and boarded up, not being used. I think we have to do everything that we can to fill those residences. We’re hearing problems with staffing challenges with regard to staff housing. I know they’ve found a solution for Fort Resolution and hopefully they can implement that solution in other communities.

People in our communities are paying over $2,000 a month for rent in a social housing unit. Why aren’t those people qualified for lease units in those communities so they can occupy them so they are not left empty? Why is that the case?

The Speaker

The Speaker Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Krutko. The honourable Minister responsible for the NWT Housing Corporation, Mr. Robert McLeod.

Robert C. McLeod

Robert C. McLeod Inuvik Twin Lakes

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. The Housing Needs Survey that was recently completed does show that the needs have gone up, and I’ve said in this House before that our capital budget for the 2011-2012 fiscal year will use the Housing Needs Survey to determine where we allocate a lot of our capital projects.

We do have a lot of units that are vacant right now. I think at last count we had 224 across the Northwest Territories and 130 of them are under repair. We did have quite a significant investment from the federal government as far as the Housing Fund goes, so we have 130 under repair and we have some that are up for sale and some that are slated for demolition. So we are trying very hard to address the needs in the community and the Housing Needs Survey will go a long way in determining how we allocate our money.

David Krutko

David Krutko Mackenzie Delta

Again, I believe one of the challenges we’re facing is dealing with the applications for these units and the length of time it’s taking to get people into these units. I’d like to ask the Minister, in light of the solution he found for Fort Resolution with regard to professional housing development where they put teachers into public housing, is that something we can look at for other communities? Can we look at the clients in social housing who are paying over $2,000 a month? Can we get them into a mortgage program, get them into these housing units so that these units are being occupied?

Robert C. McLeod

Robert C. McLeod Inuvik Twin Lakes

That is our goal. This was a gap in the housing programs that I’ve referred to in the past. We do have some people that are in the public housing system that are paying fairly significant rent. It is our desire to get them in. We have some options that we’re exploring for that right now. It is something that’s out there.

As far as the housing for staff goes, we have had real good uptake from a lot of the community groups that are looking at providing housing for staff. There is an incentive that we provide to them if they want to see that come about. They would be the ones that would be the landlord and they would be providing the housing for staff. I think we have about 64 units across the Northwest Territories that have been identified by these community groups as possible housing for staff.

David Krutko

David Krutko Mackenzie Delta

I’d like to ask the Minister if it’s possible for his department to come forward with quarterly reporting to this House regarding the vacancies of these units, where they are, and what efforts are being made to fill out those vacancies so that we have houses in the communities that are being occupied.

Robert C. McLeod

Robert C. McLeod Inuvik Twin Lakes

I can commit to the Member and the Members of this House that I’ll provide some statistics every three or four months as to the status of the vacant units.

The Speaker

The Speaker Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. McLeod. Final supplementary, Mr. Krutko.

David Krutko

David Krutko Mackenzie Delta

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I’d also like to ask the Minister regarding the Housing Needs Survey that was completed, if the Minister can also report back to this House on exactly what action is going to be taken by the department in light of the report on housing needs showing that we do have a major problem in the Northwest Territories with housing.

Robert C. McLeod

Robert C. McLeod Inuvik Twin Lakes

I will commit to providing regular updates on our plans to deal with the Housing Needs Survey. We do have a couple of things that we’re working on right now. The investment that’s being made on housing repairs I think will bring the core need down, because adequacy is one of the conditions of the needs survey. I’ll make a commitment to the Members that I’ll provide regular updates on how we’re addressing the needs survey.

The Speaker

The Speaker Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. McLeod. The honourable Member for Kam Lake, Mr. Ramsay.

David Ramsay

David Ramsay Kam Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I have questions today for the Minister of Health and Social Services going back to my Member’s statement where I talked about a thousand medevac or ambulance flights that originate in the Northwest Territories that head for Edmonton and use the City Centre Airport in Edmonton, Alberta. There’s talk now of closure of that airport and I’m wondering if the Minister of Health could let us know what the closure of the City Centre Airport in Edmonton will mean to our health care expenditures here in the Northwest Territories.

The Speaker

The Speaker Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Ramsay. The honourable Minister responsible for Health and Social Services, Ms. Lee.

Sandy Lee

Sandy Lee Range Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. This is not a new issue to us. There have been two referendums passed by the people of the municipality of Edmonton going back to 2007. The final report was in 2009. So the department has been working very closely with those involved on the ground to make sure that our medical transportation issues are taken care of. I think we’re fortunate that we have somebody within the department who is very familiar with the workings of the Alberta government as well as the municipality of Edmonton. We are deeply involved in making sure that the needs of the NWT with regard to transferring our patients are taken care of.

David Ramsay

David Ramsay Kam Lake

The patients will be looked after once they arrive in Edmonton, that’s not the case. The case is with the City Centre Airport closing down. The international airport, as everybody knows, is about a 40-minute ride into the city of Edmonton, and if you require STARS air escort into a major hospital in Edmonton, that’s 30 minutes and at a cost of $2,500.

The Minister didn’t answer my question. What is it going to cost the Department of Health and Social Services should the City Centre Airport close in Edmonton? I’m talking about ground ambulance and STARS service into a major hospital in Edmonton. Thank you.

Sandy Lee

Sandy Lee Range Lake

I’m not sure… The Member mentioned different numbers than what we anticipate. Obviously in terms of air flight, flying to the municipal airport or the international airport, the cost would not be that much different, whether you’re flying from the Yellowknife municipal airport, well, from the NWT to municipal or international, because air distance is not that large.

The issue in the health field is we provide medical and medevac services as required, and obviously if there’s extra costs involved we would have to absorb those. What we are concentrating on is working with the people involved in working on medevac issues, because we have to prepare for the closure of the municipal airport, and we’re working closely with the people who are designing the plan to make sure that NWT patients are part of the equation. There are various options being considered: faster on-the-ground transportation, as well as helicopter service. So, Mr. Speaker, we are deeply involved in making sure that we minimize the impact of the possible closure of the municipal airport.

David Ramsay

David Ramsay Kam Lake

With people’s lives hanging in the balance on a medevac or an air ambulance flight from the Northwest Territories into Edmonton, you would think that the Government of the Northwest Territories would have a position on the closure of the City Centre Airport in Edmonton. I’m wondering why the Minister and why the government hasn’t taken a position on that closure. I think that’s very strange, Mr. Speaker. Thank you.

Sandy Lee

Sandy Lee Range Lake

As I indicated already, we have been involved. We have put our input into the review process. This closure comes as a result of two referendums over 10 years. This is not a new issue. I know it’s coming to the attention of some people as a new issue, but this has been in the works for a long time. The NWT is not the only one who flies into the municipal airport for medical services; people from all over Alberta, B.C. and Saskatchewan are landing at that airport. So we are all involved in working together to come up with a plan, because we do respect the fact that the people of Edmonton have passed two referendums wanting this airport to be closed so that they can use the real estate for different reasons. That’s a democratic process. My job as Minister of Health and Social Services is to make sure that we are at the table and put forward our concerns and our needs, and we are doing that. Thank you.

The Speaker

The Speaker Paul Delorey

Thank you, Ms. Lee. Your final supplementary, Mr. Ramsay.

David Ramsay

David Ramsay Kam Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I’ve been here for almost seven years and I’ve never heard this Minister or a previous Minister talk about this issue publicly. I’ve never seen a Minister of Health and Social Services come before standing committee and share the concerns of the Government of the Northwest Territories. Mr. Speaker, I believe the Minister of Health and Social Services has an obligation to the people of the Northwest Territories to protect them, to make sure that they have access to the services available in Edmonton and that is at the City Centre Airport, Mr. Speaker.

I’d like to ask the Minister if she could share with us any correspondence that the Minister’s had with, let’s say, the mayor of Edmonton or, let’s say, the Premier or Health Minister in Alberta, to show that the Government of the Northwest Territories actually cared and actually had a position on this. Thank you.

Sandy Lee

Sandy Lee Range Lake

We have communicated in this regard and I believe I have given a copy of that previously. I would be happy to share that with the Member. That’s not a problem. Thank you.

The Speaker

The Speaker Paul Delorey

Thank you, Ms. Lee. The honourable Member for Hay River South, Mrs. Groenewegen.

Jane Groenewegen

Jane Groenewegen Hay River South

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, let me just first say that I did fail to mention that not only Minister Bob McLeod was in Hay River on the weekend, but, in fact, all of the McLeods were there, including Ms. Lee and Minister Miltenberger. So I do thank them for their trip down there.

I’d like to address my questions today, Mr. Speaker, to the Minister responsible for Environment and Natural Resources and a Minister who sits on the Ministerial Energy Coordinating Committee. I’m getting my initiatives mixed up here.

Mr. Speaker, we have, as a government, been trying to convert government buildings, where possible, from burning fuel heating oil to having pellet boilers to heat them. This has required a considerable amount of investment, but it is something that is visionary in terms of looking forward in trying to reduce our greenhouse gas emissions here in the North and contributing and doing our part to protect the environment. Mr. Speaker, I’d like to ask the Minister if having a pellet mill in the Northwest Territories is part of a strategy on the part of the government for manufacturing the pellets here in the North. Thank you.

The Speaker

The Speaker Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mrs. Groenewegen. The honourable Minister responsible for Environment and Natural Resources, Mr. Miltenberger.

Michael Miltenberger

Michael Miltenberger Thebacha

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. There is a two-stage process that we are interested in and investing in. First, of course, is building the market, doing the retrofits, encouraging people to use alternative forms of energy, which is well underway, and through that process build a market so that we can, in fact, sustain our own value-added industry in the Northwest Territories. There are two basic approaches: the one is to have a fixed site where we invest in a fairly large production facility similar to what’s there in High Level, but there’s also significant interest that has been expressed almost everywhere we’ve been in the Boreal forest area for a regional or small community-sized wood pellet plants or woodchip plants. So we’re looking at those two approaches. But the key is we do really want to push for a value-added industry that will allow us to provide our own energy. Thank you.

Jane Groenewegen

Jane Groenewegen Hay River South

Where are we at in terms of determining whether or not the inventories for the harvest of product that could be made into pellets is available and sustainable in the Northwest Territories?

Michael Miltenberger

Michael Miltenberger Thebacha

We have done some broad inventories. Very specifically, in the South Slave we’ve worked with the mill down there and we’ve brought a consultant in to look at both the market and the inventory that would be available. And that work has been concluded, I believe.

Jane Groenewegen

Jane Groenewegen Hay River South

Mr. Speaker, if the Minister could be so kind as to share with us and with the public the summary or a quick conclusion of that process of that study. What would it have determined would be the viability of making pellets in the Northwest Territories?

Michael Miltenberger

Michael Miltenberger Thebacha

Mr. Speaker, there are two key issues. At present, the market is still in its infancy in terms of what’s needed in terms of supply. Then the other one, especially in the South Slave, given it’s an unsettled claims area, is the issue of access to appropriate amounts of timber that would allow us to, in fact, have an ongoing supply. Thank you.

The Speaker

The Speaker Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Miltenberger. Your final supplementary, Mrs. Groenewegen.

Jane Groenewegen

Jane Groenewegen Hay River South

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. The issue of the interim measures agreement and the unsettled claims and access to inventories, what does the government see as their role in persuading or creating agreements with First Nations that would make it financially viable for them and for the users of this product that could be developed here in the Northwest Territories? What does he see is the government’s role in that process?

Michael Miltenberger

Michael Miltenberger Thebacha

We see this is a significant economic opportunity in the Northwest Territories. We’re spending millions of dollars building the market with our own buildings and facilities, as well as encouraging private individuals to convert. We support the whole issue of partnerships with the private sector and aboriginal governments as a way forward. The other issue, of course, is the size of the plant and the current volume that’s necessary or that’s available to justify the expense. Indications are that a plant that size is bigger considerably than we would need in the foreseeable future. But there are opportunities, we believe, with aboriginal governments and businesses to partner up with the private sector to see what may be possible. Thank you.

The Speaker

The Speaker Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Miltenberger. The honourable Member for Sahtu, Mr. Yakeleya.

Norman Yakeleya

Norman Yakeleya Sahtu

Mr. Speaker, I have made mention in my Member’s statement about the gouging that is happening in Fort Good Hope, especially with the co-op store and the situation that elders and people have to be put under in terms of cashing a basic government cheque. I want to ask the Premier what steps this government can do to help the people in Fort Good Hope and situations like that, unforeseen circumstances that happened to them and that they are put in this situation. What steps can this government do to protect the people in Fort Good Hope are living under these types of conditions? I believe that they are being held ransom.

The Speaker

The Speaker Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Yakeleya. The honourable Premier, Mr. Roland.

Floyd Roland

Floyd Roland Inuvik Boot Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. On the area of the cost of living in our communities, there are a number of initiatives that we are undertaking. Some of it has been highlighted today in Members’ statements; the electricity review, for example. The effects on the commercial rates would then be passed down to the customers in many of our communities. That is one of the biggest things we are looking at doing.

The other area, as the Member has highlighted in his Member’s statement, would be a little more difficult to deal with in a sense that how a business operates when someone wants to go in and cash their cheque, for example, that would be a little more difficult. I would have to talk with my colleagues here to see if there are any initiatives that could be about that. Thank you.

Norman Yakeleya

Norman Yakeleya Sahtu

Mr. Speaker, the Premier is correct; there are some initiatives that I could list off, actually provide in terms of how we are working with our small communities to subsidize or to lower the cost of living in our communities. The point, Mr. Speaker, I wanted to ask the Premier, is would he exercise some of his muscle or his authority in terms of how do we help communities like Fort Good Hope that are dealing with situations that I pointed out now? They are living as right today as we speak in terms of what can he and his Cabinet come together and present something on the floor that would protect future incidents like this in the Northwest Territories?

Floyd Roland

Floyd Roland Inuvik Boot Lake

Mr. Speaker, some of these incidents may have increased since the burning of the Northern Store in that community, therefore creating one outlet there in the community, the Co-operative’s initiative. That becomes part of the challenge. A number of our communities that have only one place to shop is a challenge as everyone has to go through that store. It is a challenge. I would again have to commit to getting back with my colleagues to see if there are any initiatives under consumer protection, for example, to see what may be taken under that area. Thank you.

Norman Yakeleya

Norman Yakeleya Sahtu

Mr. Speaker, I look forward to the Premier getting back to me on this initiative. I want to ask the Premier in terms of the types of protection that could give people in Fort Good Hope from the co-op, for example, that they feel that they are getting gouged at the co-op store in terms of how can this government here... When will the Premier report back to me in terms of this is what they could do in terms of helping the people of Fort Good Hope to at least reduce their cost at the co-op store in terms of lowering their cost of foods?

Floyd Roland

Floyd Roland Inuvik Boot Lake

Mr. Speaker, one of the other initiatives that has been undertaken not necessarily by our government but the federal government on the Food Mail Program, we are expecting to hear some news on that. I know Minister Strahl has been working under that initiative, so we are waiting to see what the final outcome of those discussions would be and what that might do for the constituents of the Northwest Territories that use that program.

The other area, again, is within our own initiatives. The cost of energy in our communities is something that we are undergoing and could have a direct impact as early as this upcoming fall and winter season.

As by responding to the question here in the House, I will be speaking with the Minister of Municipal and Community Affairs which I believe is the consumer protection area within that department. We will have a discussion and see how soon we can get back. Thank you.

The Speaker

The Speaker Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Roland. Final supplementary, Mr. Yakeleya.

Norman Yakeleya

Norman Yakeleya Sahtu

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I do applaud Minister Bob McLeod in terms of his announcement of lowering the cost of living in our small communities. I want to ask the Premier what tools would he be using in terms of monitoring the reduced cost of living in our small communities. What tools would he be using and how soon can he get back to me in terms of saying this is what we can do in Fort Good Hope in terms of protection from the high cost of foods in the co-op store?

Floyd Roland

Floyd Roland Inuvik Boot Lake

Mr. Speaker, the questions that the Member is asking will require us to look at it as to what we have available within our authority. Some of it falls outside of our authority and goes back to the private sector and how they carry on their business. We may have to… It depends if Members of this Assembly feel that we need to initiate some action on the legislative side to be looked at, but at this point all I can commit to the Member is sitting down with my colleagues to go through what we have available outside of the initiatives we are undertaking, like I responded earlier, to the electricity rate review, the Food Mail Program as we will hear from the federal government on, those types of initiatives and get back to the Member on a number of those. Thank you.

The Speaker

The Speaker Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Roland. The honourable Member for Great Slave, Mr. Abernethy.

Glen Abernethy

Glen Abernethy Great Slave

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. My questions today are for the Premier and they are related to a Member’s statement I made last week about a process convention that was agreed to by Caucus in Fort Smith and reconfirmed later at Blachford Lake, I think.

I don’t think it would be any surprise to any of the Members on Cabinet or on this side, we have had some communication problems in this building. As a result of those communication problems, we ended up being faced with a motion of non-confidence against all the Ministers. As a result of that, we got together as a Caucus and we talked about some of the communication challenges that we had. We came up with some process conventions that allow us or place procedures on how we are going to work together. I believe these process conventions are valuable.

I am curious if the Premier could tell me, is Cabinet still committed to these process conventions that we agreed to, specifically the process convention on the Standing Committee review of proposed policy initiatives and implementation plans. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

The Speaker

The Speaker Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Abernethy. The honourable Premier, Mr. Roland.

Floyd Roland

Floyd Roland Inuvik Boot Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. We have, in fact, held by our conventions that we have put in place, the conventions when this policy was first put into the system in the 15th Assembly. Since the 16th Assembly and our initiatives -- and I must say I thank the Member for being kind, because when I came up to that vote, there was a little more to it than just communications and we all know that. The other area of the work and the policy since coming together as Members and renewing our relationship and working together, we hold to that. We continue to work with that. In fact, the supplementary health policy has been to committee now from the earliest days of this Assembly, was taken back and reviewed, come back to committee and another set of reviews were done and coming forward now for implementation in the fall. Thank you.

Glen Abernethy

Glen Abernethy Great Slave

Mr. Speaker, I would like to thank the Premier for his response. I’m glad that he brought up supplemental health. That is obviously what I was concerned about. Yes, supplemental health has come to committee and we have been informed time and time again on what the department intends to do. I don’t believe that it is consistent with the intent of the process convention. I believe the process convention is about working together to find reasonable solutions and listening. Coming to us and telling us what you are going to do is a radically different thing. I am wondering if the Premier can help me understand exactly how this process that they are moving forward with complies with the process convention that talks about specifically under clause 8 that the standing committee and the Cabinet must be briefed and have all the significant implementation tools such as things as ministerial policies, eligibility criteria, program guidelines presented and discussed with us when in fact there are no program guidelines at this point, yet they plan to put a program in place in June and implement in September, which pretty much kills all opportunity for public discussion and debate. How does that comply with the process convention that we have today? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Floyd Roland

Floyd Roland Inuvik Boot Lake

The process convention provides standing committees with the opportunities to influence the policy development and implementation, but ultimately that decision still remains with the Cabinet. After seeking the input and redesigning or altering what was initially put forward, and I’d say in this case that has happened, in fact ongoing discussions are going on to look at what that final piece may be as we get through this stage.

So we continue to work with that convention around all the policies that the Government of the Northwest Territories is looking at and developing. In fact, again, this particular policy has been discussed through this session and has been into committee quite some time ago. It was pulled back, it was launched again earlier in the year, and pulled back again to go around again and have more input on that, and that’s been done. We are now at the stage, feel that we have the best of what we have to put forward. Now there’s a number of things that do need to be looked at before implementation, and we’ll be going to committee with that as we progress. Thank you.

Glen Abernethy

Glen Abernethy Great Slave

Thank you. In I believe it was the Yellowknifer on May 12th, the Minister of Health indicated that the changes are going ahead this year regardless. So I’m curious how we can apply these process conventions fairly and consistently if it’s clear that the Minister is going to be proceeding this year regardless. I agree there are some things that need to be looked at. I’ll agree that there are some changes that are required, but I’m curious, once again to the Premier, how can we apply this process convention when the Minister is so clearly moving ahead regardless. Thank you.

Floyd Roland

Floyd Roland Inuvik Boot Lake

Thank you. We all know that the newspapers are like gospel, I guess, to certain corners of our Territory, but at the same time we’ve also learned that the quotes that are taken at times can be stretched a little, and I can speak from my own experience as well.

This area has had much debate. In fact, when it was first brought to the 16th Legislative Assembly, it was publicly put out there as well and there was even support granted at that time. Since people have had a look at that more, there were issues raised, concerns raised, we pulled it back based on discussions with Members, had another go-around in redeveloping that and brought it back to committee, had more input. Now the policy convention that we have in place is being used. In fact, it has affected how that policy has been developed or redeveloped as we go forward. There was a recent meeting and some of the substantial issues were raised again and we’re looking to deal with a couple of those substantial issues in a time frame that would still allow us to implement the policy as has been decided.

So, yes, a decision has been made to move forward, but implementation in those areas need to be clarified and changed to fit what we feel can be acceptable for the majority of people in the Northwest Territories and the majority of Members. Thank you.

The Speaker

The Speaker Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Roland. Your final supplementary, Mr. Abernethy.

Glen Abernethy

Glen Abernethy Great Slave

I’d like to, once again, thank the Premier for that answer. I’m not 100 percent sure that we’re getting the answer to the question I’m asking. What I’m talking about is the process convention itself, it talks about the implementation tools and all those types of things. I hear the Premier saying that they have to consider some different aspects of it before they move forward, which seems to suggest to me that there’s no way they’re going to have a plan done in June. If they don’t have a plan done in June, how can they still implement in September? We need to have an opportunity to review, once again, anything that comes forward and have a public debate in this House on anything that comes forward in the future. So how can we do that if they don’t have a plan? If they’re going to make some changes, can they really get them done by June and can we really implement by September? I think the timeline is a little excessive and I think it will hurt the people of the Northwest Territories, not help the people of the Northwest Territories as the Premier wishes to do. Thank you.

Floyd Roland

Floyd Roland Inuvik Boot Lake

Thank you. We believe that June, coming forward with the minor changes as a result of discussions with Members, that we’ll be able to come forward in June for implementation in September. Thank you.

The Speaker

The Speaker Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Roland. The honourable Member for Weledeh, Mr. Bromley.

Bob Bromley

Bob Bromley Weledeh

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. My questions are for the Minister of our Power Corporation and the first one is very short. What has been the cost of our electricity rate review and NTPC review? Thank you.

The Speaker

The Speaker Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Bromley. The honourable Minister responsible for the NWT Power Corporation, Mr. Roland.

Floyd Roland

Floyd Roland Inuvik Boot Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. The work on the Power Corp review was undertaken by the Executive. It wasn’t a direct initiative out of the Power Corporation. I’ll have to look in my notes, but I’ll get that information to him before the end of our session. Thank you.

Bob Bromley

Bob Bromley Weledeh

Thank you. I appreciate the Premier’s commitment on that. Obviously the recommendations that our current report provides does very little to reduce the actual costs of power, which is what is ultimately required. You know, if we just keep putting the costs behind the scenes, what that does is remove the options we have for doing other things, providing services and other things of value to our people. So we can’t keep doing that. When will we actually see real reductions in the actual costs of electricity so that real savings can be provided? Thank you.

Floyd Roland

Floyd Roland Inuvik Boot Lake

Thank you. Just further to the first question the Member had, the Power Corp review was in the neighbourhood of $200,000 to get that done. The initiatives we’ve undertaken under the electricity rate review does do substantial changes to the way we deliver power.

As the Member pointed out earlier, yes, the Member feels it’s a shuffling of the deck, but it is real change because if we did not do any changes, in fact, the Power Corporation would be coming forward today, in fact would have already been working at a general rate application that could go towards just what was raised by Member Bisaro as well when you talk about adjusting the prices and price shock.

This is not going to come as a result of the changes that we’re proposing. It is something that we’re faced with on a day-to-day basis within the existing system. That is why the government has decided, with support of our Members, to put $60 million into alternative energy development like run-of-the-river hydro, wind and biomass initiatives, and, yes, we’re disappointed as well that a number of these projects haven’t moved as fast as they have, and we’re putting the feet to the fire, in a sense, to move these along as much as we can with the time we have left. Thank you.

Bob Bromley

Bob Bromley Weledeh

Thanks to the Minister for those remarks. I think we have some common ground there. I appreciate the $200K estimate for the Power Corporation review and I assume I’ll still be hearing about the electricity rate review costs.

As the Minister said, and I said in my question, we have not had real cost reductions yet and we all hope that there will be some eventually. What I want to know is, will we see any during the life of this Assembly, the four-year life of this Assembly. Thank you.

Floyd Roland

Floyd Roland Inuvik Boot Lake

Thank you. That is our goal. In fact, every business plan since we identified that money for the Legislative Assembly, we push the departments to show progress, and not just internal progress but to get projects on the ground and put in place. So the wind turbine technology that’s been looked at has been delayed for a year. We were expecting it this year but it will go ahead in the next year, I believe. The area of biomass, we’re looking at, as we have already done, some exchanges for heat in a number of our facilities that will need replacement of boilers. As well, we’re still working with the Power Corporation for biomass for electricity generation. As well, as I’ve just been informed, the electricity rate review was in the neighbourhood of $550,000 to complete that work and that shows the cost of having to do that type of business in the Northwest Territories on large-scale consultation. Thank you.

The Speaker

The Speaker Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Roland. Final supplementary, Mr. Bromley.

Bob Bromley

Bob Bromley Weledeh

Yes, thank you, Mr. Speaker. Just totalling these things up, that’s almost another million dollars. So we’re pretty close to an additional $10 million of subsidies this year and this is in addition to our apparently now routine at 10 to 12 million dollars per year and this is what I mean about we’re not really reducing costs and we’re removing options for services for our people. So I’d like to ask the Premier, during the life of this Assembly what community will actually have an electricity system with reduced costs. What community? Even one community.

Floyd Roland

Floyd Roland Inuvik Boot Lake

I can name probably in the neighbourhood, let me see, how many thermal communities will go into that zone? About 22 communities. Now, I know the Member feels that’s just a shuffling of the deck, but that is real lower costs in our communities that will be spread out to the commercial base and to the customer base and the overall cost of living in our communities. Structurally as the Power Corporation and as the Government of the Northwest Territories, we know we need to increase our rate base in the sense of more people and more businesses in the Northwest Territories and to invest in these other alternatives requires cash that we have to, as the GNWT, invest in that system, because the Power Corporation, under the existing structure, is within a defined set of parameters that it can operate by. So we as the Government of the Northwest Territories have chosen to invest in alternative energies and we’re going to be doing that and putting some of these initiatives on the ground by the time this Assembly has concluded its business.

The Speaker

The Speaker Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Roland. The honourable Member for Frame Lake, Ms. Bisaro.

Wendy Bisaro

Wendy Bisaro Frame Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. My questions today are addressed to the Minister of Education, Culture and Employment. Over the last, probably, year, I think, the department has been doing or has been starting and has been engaged in a facilities needs study for the city of Yellowknife. I know we referenced it, Members referenced it in our October 2009 discussions of the capital plan and we also talked about it in February when we discussed business plans for 2010-2011. There are renovations that are needed by several Yellowknife YK 1 schools and there also needs to be a permanent home for Aurora College; it’s badly needed.

In the deliberations, in October and February the Minister stated, I believe, that the report would be expected at the end of this fiscal year, which to me means the 31st of March 2010. We’re some six weeks beyond that. I’d like to ask the Minister if the study has been completed and when we can see the results.

The Speaker

The Speaker Paul Delorey

Thank you, Ms. Bisaro. The honourable Minister responsible for Education, Culture and Employment, Mr. Lafferty.

Jackson Lafferty

Jackson Lafferty Monfwi

Mahsi, Mr. Speaker. The study has been completed. We are in consultation with the YK 1 school board and the college. We just need to consult with them on possibly proposed changes. We need to keep in mind that the college campus, the expiry date of 2012 at Northern United Place is a pressing issue that we need to deal with. Overall, the Yellowknife education facilities have been reviewed and there have been some proposed options that we have presented to the board and also to Yellowknife MLAs for their consideration. We’re still waiting for feedback by one of the school boards and then we can certainly share that information with the general public.

Wendy Bisaro

Wendy Bisaro Frame Lake

I would like to thank the Minister for his comments. The Minister mentions that there are a number of options. I do appreciate that there are options. He also mentions that they are in consultation with YK 1 and the college, then he stated they are waiting for one of the school boards. My understanding is that YK 1 has indicated their approval of one of the options, and if he is waiting for the Catholic system, then I guess I would ask them to hurry up.

I understand, as the Minister said, he’s confirmed to me my understanding is that the Aurora College lease expires in 2012. I’d like to ask the Minister if the option that is, or one of the options that is currently out there is not acceptable to somebody and these options are not approved, what plans does the Minister have for a permanent home for the YK Aurora College campus in the near future?

Jackson Lafferty

Jackson Lafferty Monfwi

That is one of the options that we are discussing with YK 1 as well. Alternatives on the options. The decision that needs to come down and the recommendation to me as well, then make a final decision before the capital planning process begins. That’s why we’ve initiated this consultation and we are now on the verge of a final decision by the board to give us a green light to say we’re fine with the option that they are favouring. We’re just waiting for that response from the board.

Wendy Bisaro

Wendy Bisaro Frame Lake

I guess I’d like to thank the Minister again for his comments. Part of the facilities plan and the options that were presented, the work that was being done by the consultant to look into things was renovations, to complete the renovations, I should say, at Mildred Hall School and to do a very large and significant renovation of J.H. Sissons School. So I’d like to ask the Minister, are there plans being considered for those two renovation projects?

Jackson Lafferty

Jackson Lafferty Monfwi

Throughout the consultation and also the Yellowknife educational facilities review, there has been undertaking of renovations. The renovations that have been highlighted has already been undertaken by our department and identified as a capital planning project on a long-term basis. Those facilities that need upgrade and major retrofit have been highlighted through our consultation with the school boards. Yes, the majority of the schools that require upgrade will definitely be part of the capital planning process.

The Speaker

The Speaker Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Jacobson. Final supplementary, Ms. Bisaro.

Wendy Bisaro

Wendy Bisaro Frame Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Thanks to the Minister again. I guess I’d just like to confirm or have the Minister confirm for me, he talks about these renovations being part of the capital plan process. I would like to ask the Minister, does he mean that Aurora College renovations, Sissons renovations and Mildred Hall School renovations will be part of the 2011-2012 Capital Plan?

Jackson Lafferty

Jackson Lafferty Monfwi

The minor renovations and major renovations that have been highlighted by our department on the capital planning process will continue as we move along. The Member is referring to certain facilities such as the Aurora College campus. The decision has to be made on options first, before we can proceed with the capital planning process. That is in the works and they are at the final stages.

The Speaker

The Speaker Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Lafferty. The honourable Member for Nahendeh, Mr. Menicoche.

Kevin A. Menicoche

Kevin A. Menicoche Nahendeh

Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker. Earlier I spoke about the water tanks that need replacing in Wrigley. I believe it’s reaching a critical stage. About six weeks ago the community health representative tested about six houses and their water tanks and deemed two of them not potable, meaning that they cannot use it for household use. It’s really impacting the families there. I’m not too sure who to ask this question to. We’ve got several departments responsible for water in the community. Perhaps I can start with or ask the Minister of Health and Social Services.

What I’m looking for is that the NWT Housing Corporation had said no to replacing these water tanks, but these tanks need replacing. If they cannot access programming, then our government’s going to have to find a solution around addressing this very, very important health need. I’d like to ask the Minister of Health and Social Services if we have existing programs to help a situation like this.

The Speaker

The Speaker Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Menicoche. The honourable Minister responsible for Health and Social Services, Ms. Lee.

Sandy Lee

Sandy Lee Range Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. In terms of a program available in Health and Social Services in this regard, we have produced promotional material and videos on the health promotion side to inform and educate people in our communities about how to keep their water tanks safe.

Kevin A. Menicoche

Kevin A. Menicoche Nahendeh

I’m aware of the rules for the House, so if it was up to me, I’d keep asking each Minister individually until I reach the right one. What I’m actually after is that federally, in the eastern provinces they recently announced a Water Tank Maintenance Program in fact to replace some water tanks on a reserve. It is really getting to a crisis stage in Wrigley. They’ve got many, many homes and their water tanks are in very poor condition. They’re in arrears with the Housing Corporation. They can’t get programming to replace the tanks, so we’re going to have to look at a unique and different program for this community, Mr. Speaker.

I’d like to ask the Minister of Health and Social Services, once again: given these circumstances, is there a way to assist the community of Wrigley in replacing these water tanks? Maybe she can confer with her colleagues, as well. Thank you.

The Speaker

The Speaker Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Menicoche. The honourable Premier, Mr. Roland.

Floyd Roland

Floyd Roland Inuvik Boot Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Because it does affect a number of departments, the Department of Health and Social Services does do the testing. The maintenance or repairs from that point on depends again on if it is public housing, then the Housing Corporation is directly involved. If it’s a private homeowner, the homeowner then would be required to do that maintenance. They can qualify for support through the Housing Corporation, but that, again, depends on the program criteria and if they’re eligible and if they’d had support previously on other initiatives. So depending on the scenario, a number of potential outcomes apply. Thank you.

Kevin A. Menicoche

Kevin A. Menicoche Nahendeh

I’m well aware of our policy and guidelines when it comes to arrears and what it means is that the government is saying no to replace these water tanks. But it is getting to the critical stage, Mr. Speaker. It is getting to a crisis situation. In fact, it can be deemed an emergency that these tanks need replacing in these communities and the residents need assistance with that. So I’m calling upon the government to come up with a strategy for the community of Wrigley and let’s address all these homes that are badly in need of replacing these water tanks. Thank you.

Floyd Roland

Floyd Roland Inuvik Boot Lake

Mr. Speaker, there are a number of avenues that can be undertaken by individuals and, again, it would be a case-by-case scenario. If there is, for example, private homes, the Housing Corporation could be of assistance, depending on the situation. As the Member pointed out, if there are arrears that come into play, then individuals can sign a prepayment plan that may be able to make them eligible for applying again, but I’d have to further confer with the Minister of the Housing Corporation on the specifics.

I would say that maybe here’s an opportunity that we can put the Member and the Minister together to see if there are specific initiatives that could be looked at that would apply to a number of areas. For example, Mr. Speaker, if the tanks are poly, there’s a cleaning procedure that is acceptable that would bring it back to the proper standards. So, again, we’d have to get more details and see what initiatives can be looked at. Thank you.

The Speaker

The Speaker Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Roland. Your final supplementary, Mr. Menicoche.

Kevin A. Menicoche

Kevin A. Menicoche Nahendeh

Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker. That’s an avenue I wasn’t told about. When a couple families called me, their first line was, of course, to see the Housing Corporation and they were denied immediately. That’s exactly what it was there, Mr. Speaker, there was just an outright no. There were no alternative solutions provided to them. Hence, I’m raising it in the House and I’m glad that at least there’s one avenue that the Premier had indicated. I would like to ask the Premier if there are any other routes or avenues that we can address this critical situation of the water tanks in Wrigley. Thank you.

Floyd Roland

Floyd Roland Inuvik Boot Lake

I probably should have referred it to the Minister of the Housing Corporation so he can give the actual program detail, but in this case I’ll confer with the Minister of the Housing Corporation to see what initiatives may be undertaken when it comes to dealing with folks on arrears, if it’s a pre-payment plan or does it have to be paid off in full. The issue, again, becomes more specific to the unit. If it is a matter of cleaning, then that falls under the homeowner’s responsibility, and, as Minister Lee pointed out, there is a process to make that water system safe again. Thank you.

The Speaker

The Speaker Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Roland. The honourable Member for Nunakput, Mr. Jacobson.

Jackie Jacobson

Jackie Jacobson Nunakput

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, given my Member’s statement today, given all across the Territory community government organizations are saying the same thing, that communities’ number one problem is not enough counselling support, will this government commit to a long-term, small, fully functional, around-the-clock, fully equipped addictions centre? We have the nurses but, Mr. Speaker, we don’t have the counsellors in every community. Thank you.

The Speaker

The Speaker Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Jacobson. The honourable Minister responsible for Health and Social Services, Ms. Lee.

Sandy Lee

Sandy Lee Range Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. We do have counsellors and wellness workers in most of our communities. Our budget is $6 million to provide for that. Mr. Speaker, it is true, we do not have a treatment centre in every community. If we were to do that, we need to do that as a Legislature and government and through the business plan process. Thank you.

Jackie Jacobson

Jackie Jacobson Nunakput

The key word in that reply was “most,” Mr. Speaker. Will the government adapt a duel system that will provide an equal number of days for post-program assistance in their home communities once the person, for example, a participant spends 30 days in an addiction program, will the government give a minimum of 30 days’ professional support in their home communities? Thank you.

Sandy Lee

Sandy Lee Range Lake

The Member inquired about that previously and I did respond to the Member on that. I don’t have it with me, but, Mr. Speaker, I do believe that is possible to have our residents who are coming out of treatment programs and facilities to have aftercare counselling within the community with the staff that we have. So, Mr. Speaker, it’s possible through our system. Thank you.

Jackie Jacobson

Jackie Jacobson Nunakput

As mentioned in a previous Member’s statement, during my community visits in Nunakput I speak to the mayors and the community leaders, all identifying the lack of professional and social support as one of the most serious issues in our communities, Mr. Speaker. People are very passionate about these issues and they have lots to say. As a government, we must listen. We must act, Mr. Speaker. So I ask the government to review the current territorial strategy with addictions in the community counselling programs to conduct a comprehensive community-based discussion to develop and to go forward. Thank you.

Sandy Lee

Sandy Lee Range Lake

The Member is correct that especially in his communities they are very passionate about this. The government has listened. The Department of Health and Social Services has invested, actually, the largest increase and largest sum to the community of Tuk that I have made available to help the community with their house that they want to open to work on the addictions issues.

The Member mentioned earlier that we should work with the federal government. I would like to advise the Member that the Department of Health and Social Services has finalized an application to the Mental Health Commission so that we can get some assistance from them to work on a program in his community. Thank you.

The Speaker

The Speaker Paul Delorey

Thank you, Ms. Lee. The honourable Member for Hay River South, Mrs. Groenewegen.

Jane Groenewegen

Jane Groenewegen Hay River South

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I’m going to follow up on my questions I asked the Minister of Environment and Natural Resources previously. I would like to ask him, of the $60 million that he and we have been referring to here, where are we at -- it’s a three-year -- in the three years and how much of that $60 million was allocated for biomass projects? Thank you.

The Speaker

The Speaker Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mrs. Groenewegen. The honourable Minister responsible for Environment and Natural Resources, Mr. Miltenberger.

Michael Miltenberger

Michael Miltenberger Thebacha

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. We have, I believe, about $15 million for this year. I’d have to commit to get that for the Member, and I’d be happy to provide, the breakdown of all that money across the regions and across the different areas of alternate energy including biomass, wind, geothermal, mini-hydro, and all those different areas. I’ll commit to get that for the Member. Thank you.

Jane Groenewegen

Jane Groenewegen Hay River South

Mr. Speaker, $60 million is a fair amount of money and if we’re going to spend $60 million over three years, I’d like to ask the Minister if the capacity is available to this government to sort out how we’re going to spend those funds and actually see the results of them and not have this money lapse in some fashion. How are we doing on that? Thank you.

Michael Miltenberger

Michael Miltenberger Thebacha

Once again, when I get that information for the Member about all of the projects that are underway, the Member will see we have done a number of briefings. But we have done a fairly good job in terms of retrofitting our buildings. The Tuk project is moving along. They are trying to fast-track the mini-hydro in Lutselk’e. There is work being done on extending the power lines. We have made fairly significant efforts with biomass, as well, in other areas, with recovering waste heat up the valley. There is a very important piece of work being done for geothermal for both in Yellowknife and in Fort Liard. I think, when you consider what we are trying to do in terms of the structural change of our system, how we generate, distribute and use energy to reduce our greenhouse gases and to reduce our carbon footprint and our reliance on diesel, I think, given the fact that we are now into year two and we have come from basically a standing stop, that we are doing a fairly good job. Thank you.

Jane Groenewegen

Jane Groenewegen Hay River South

Mr. Speaker, of course we have been briefed on this thing. The whole idea of this public process here on the floor of the House is to make the public aware of what is going on. People are curious about this. We can tell them that somehow it seems more effective when it comes from the Minister who is responsible for the $60 million. How much of the $60 million has already been allocated in some fashion for the suspension of the dividends from the NWT Power Corporation for the next couple of years and the buying now the rate riders to reduce the power costs that have been announced recently? Thank you.

Michael Miltenberger

Michael Miltenberger Thebacha

Mr. Speaker, the $60 million always included $9 million, which is $3 million a year, initially when we came up with the concept and the funding to do something to replace or to enhance the commercial subsidy in the small communities where the price of commercial power is prohibitive as we sorted through these long-term structural changes to how we use, distribute, generate and consume energy in the Northwest Territories. That money was always there. Now the use has been identified. It is going to result in the rate changes and rate structure changes that have been announced by Minister McLeod and will translate into those significant savings to the commercial power rates in small communities. Thank you.

The Speaker

The Speaker Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Miltenberger. The time for question period has expired; however, I will allow the Member a final supplementary question. Mrs. Groenewegen.

Jane Groenewegen

Jane Groenewegen Hay River South

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. The lowering of the commercial power rates in the communities, I can see it acting as an incentive for business. How that translates into lower prices for consumers is a piece that I don’t quite understand how the government is going to have a hand in or ensure that that happens before we get people too excited that the price of groceries is going to go down because the cost of power for the local grocery store is going to go down. How does the government see, actually, that money not just being... The business of operating with high power rates for a while and if a commercial rate reduction is going to help them, it could create some incentive to start some businesses, but how is it actually going to be seen by consumers? Thank you.

Michael Miltenberger

Michael Miltenberger Thebacha

Mr. Speaker, I will give the Member a very specific example. I have had contact now for a number of months with the senior officials that run Northern Stores. They were talking to us, came to us about, initially, plastic bags but we started talking about energy costs and their efforts to lower their costs, because it is driving their costs for food right through the roof. I indicated that we were contemplating a number of significant changes and if they were carried through would see a resulting drop in their power rates from 30 percent on up. They were very clear that if that kind of arrangement was made, they would be passing some of those savings on to the consumer. I think we would be following up with those companies. We would be monitoring on the ground and look at our food basket costs and we would be encouraging and working very hard with the private sector to make sure that the consumers in the small communities realize some of that benefit. Thank you.

The Speaker

The Speaker Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Miltenberger. Time for questions has expired. The honourable Member for Nunakput, Mr. Jacobson.

Jackie Jacobson

Jackie Jacobson Nunakput

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I seek unanimous consent to go back to item 5 on the orders of the day. Thank you.

---Unanimous consent granted

The Speaker

The Speaker Paul Delorey

The honourable Member for Nunakput, Mr. Jacobson.

Recognition of Visitors in the Gallery (Reversion)
Recognition of Visitors in the Gallery (Reversion)

Jackie Jacobson

Jackie Jacobson Nunakput

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I would just like to say hello to my son and welcome my son Matthew and my daughter Kirstin here in the House today. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Recognition of Visitors in the Gallery (Reversion)
Recognition of Visitors in the Gallery (Reversion)

The Speaker

The Speaker Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Jacobson. The honourable Member for Range Lake, Ms. Lee.

Recognition of Visitors in the Gallery (Reversion)
Recognition of Visitors in the Gallery (Reversion)

Sandy Lee

Sandy Lee Range Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I would like to recognize Kathy Tsetso, CEO of Deh Cho Health and Social Services Authority, and two ladies who are with her. I will not try to name them because I will get them wrong, so welcome to the gallery.

Recognition of Visitors in the Gallery (Reversion)
Recognition of Visitors in the Gallery (Reversion)

The Speaker

The Speaker Paul Delorey

Thank you, Ms. Lee. Welcome everyone. The honourable Member for Nahendeh, Mr. Menicoche.

Recognition of Visitors in the Gallery (Reversion)
Recognition of Visitors in the Gallery (Reversion)

Kevin A. Menicoche

Kevin A. Menicoche Nahendeh

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I, too, would like to welcome Ms. Kathy Tsetso to the gallery and welcome a constituent of mine.

Recognition of Visitors in the Gallery (Reversion)
Recognition of Visitors in the Gallery (Reversion)

The Speaker

The Speaker Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Menicoche. I would like to welcome everyone in the gallery today. Item 8, written questions. The honourable Member for Sahtu, Mr. Yakeleya.

Norman Yakeleya

Norman Yakeleya Sahtu

My questions are for the Minister of Health and Social Services.

How many people are currently registered with the NWT Health Care Plan, and how many of those people temporarily reside outside of the Northwest Territories?

Norman Yakeleya

Norman Yakeleya Sahtu

Can the Minister provide information as to how the NWT is represented when funding is being discussed with Health Canada?

The Speaker

The Speaker Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Yakeleya. Item 9, returns to written questions. Item 10, replies to opening address. Item 11, petitions. Item 12, reports of standing and special committees. Item 13, reports of committees on the review of bills. The honourable Member for Great Slave, Mr. Abernethy.

Reports of Committees on the Review of Bills
Reports of Committees on the Review of Bills

The Speaker

The Speaker Paul Delorey

BILL 5:

APPRENTICESHIP, TRADE AND

OCCUPATION CERTIFICATION ACT

Reports of Committees on the Review of Bills
Reports of Committees on the Review of Bills

Glen Abernethy

Glen Abernethy Great Slave

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I wish to report to the Assembly that the Standing Committee on Social Programs has reviewed Bill 5, Apprenticeship, Trade and Occupation Certification Act. The committee wishes to report that Bill 5 is now ready for consideration in Committee of the Whole. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Reports of Committees on the Review of Bills
Reports of Committees on the Review of Bills

The Speaker

The Speaker Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Abernethy. Item 14, tabling of documents. The honourable Member for Weledeh, Mr. Bromley.

Bob Bromley

Bob Bromley Weledeh

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I wish to table two documents today. First of all, a copy of the advertisement of the Mackenzie Gas Project “A Secure Energy Source,” placed by the Department of Industry, Tourism and Investment in the May 2010 issue of Up Here Business magazine.

The second is the transcript of the presentation of the Government of the Northwest Territories to the National Energy Board hearings in Inuvik, April 20th and 21st, 2010, transcript paragraphs 18110 to 18636, presentation by GNWT counsel C.W. Sanderson.

The Speaker

The Speaker Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Bromley. Item 15, notices of motion. The honourable Member for the Sahtu, Mr. Yakeleya.

Norman Yakeleya

Norman Yakeleya Sahtu

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I give notice that, on Wednesday, May 19, 2010, I will move the following motion: now therefore I move, seconded by the honourable Member for Yellowknife Centre, that this Assembly directs the Minister of Transportation to seek federal funding via the P3 Canada Fund for this important piece of infrastructure in the Northwest Territories. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

The Speaker

The Speaker Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Yakeleya. Item 16, notices of motion for first reading of bills. The honourable Minister of Industry, Tourism and Investment, Mr. Bob McLeod.

Bill 9: An Act To Amend The Tourism Act
Notices of Motion for First Reading of Bills

Bob McLeod

Bob McLeod Yellowknife South

Mr. Speaker, I give notice that, on Wednesday, May 19, 2010, I will move that Bill 9, An Act to Amend the Tourism Act, be read for the first time. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Bill 9: An Act To Amend The Tourism Act
Notices of Motion for First Reading of Bills

The Speaker

The Speaker Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. McLeod. Item 17, motions. Item 18, first reading of bills. The honourable Minister of Health and Social Services, Ms. Lee.

Bill 8: Social Work Profession Act
First Reading of Bills

Range Lake

Sandy Lee

Sandy Lee Minister of Health and Social Services

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I move, seconded by the honourable Member for Thebacha, that Bill 8, Social Work Profession Act, be read for the first time. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

The Speaker

The Speaker Paul Delorey

Thank you, Ms. Lee. Motion is on the floor. Motion is in order.

Some Hon. Members

Question.

The Speaker

The Speaker Paul Delorey

Question is being called.

---Carried

Item 19, second reading of bills. The honourable Member for Kam Lake, Mr. Ramsay.

Second Reading of Bills
Second Reading of Bills

David Ramsay

David Ramsay Kam Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I move, seconded by the honourable Member for Tu Nedhe, that Bill 7, An Act to Amend the Elections and Plebiscites Act, No. 3, be read for the second time.

Mr. Speaker, this bill amends the Elections and Plebiscites Act to implement recommendations of the Standing Committee on Rules and Procedures following up on its review of the report of the Chief Electoral Officer on the administration of the 2007 General Election. Thank you.

Second Reading of Bills
Second Reading of Bills

The Speaker

The Speaker Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Ramsay. I’ll have to declare that motion out of order. The seconder of the motion is not in the House.

---Ruled out of order

The honourable Member for Kam Lake, Mr. Ramsay.

David Ramsay

David Ramsay Kam Lake

Mr. Speaker, I move, seconded by the honourable Member for Sahtu, Mr. Yakeleya, that Bill 7, An Act to Amend the Elections and Plebiscites Act, No. 3, be read for the second time. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Speaker, this bill amends the Elections and Plebiscite Act to implement recommendations of the Standing Committee on Rules and Procedures following up on its review of the report of the Chief Electoral Officer on the administration of the 2007 General Election.

The Speaker

The Speaker Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Ramsay. Motion is on the floor. Motion is in order. To the principle of the bill.

Some Hon. Members

Question.

The Speaker

The Speaker Paul Delorey

Question is being called.

---Carried

The honourable Member for Kam Lake, Mr. Ramsay.

David Ramsay

David Ramsay Kam Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I seek unanimous consent to waive Rule 69(2) and have Bill 7, An Act to Amend the Elections and Plebiscite Act, moved into Committee of the Whole for consideration. Thank you.

The Speaker

The Speaker Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Ramsay. The Member is seeking unanimous consent to waive Rule 69(2) and have Bill 7, An Act to Amend the Elections and Plebiscite Act, moved into Committee of the Whole. Are there any nays? There are no nays. Bill 7 will be moved into Committee of the Whole for consideration.

Item 20, consideration in Committee of the Whole of bills and other matters: Tabled Document 4-16(5), Executive Summary of the Report of the Joint Review Panel for the Mackenzie Gas Project; Tabled Document 30-16(5), 2010 Review of Members’ Compensation and Benefits; Tabled Document 38-16(5), Supplementary Health Benefits – What We Heard; Tabled Document 42-16(5), Supplementary Estimates No. 1, 2010-2011 (Operations Expenditures); Tabled Document 43-16(5), Supplementary Estimates No. 3, 2010-2011 (Infrastructure Expenditures); and Bill 7, An Act to Amend the Elections and Plebiscites Act, No. 3, with Mr. Abernethy in the Chair.

Consideration in Committee the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Glen Abernethy

Thank you, I call Committee of the Whole to order. We have on our agenda Tabled Document 4-16(5), Tabled Document 30-16(5), Tabled Document 38-16(5), Tabled Document 42-16(5), Tabled Document 43-16(5), as well as Bill 7. What is the wish of committee? Mrs. Groenewegen.

Consideration in Committee the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Jane Groenewegen

Jane Groenewegen Hay River South

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. The committee wishes to deal with Supplementary Estimates No. 1, Supplementary Estimates No. 3, followed by the Executive Summary of the Report of the Joint Review Panel for the Mackenzie Gas Project. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Consideration in Committee the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Glen Abernethy

Is committee agreed?

Consideration in Committee the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

Consideration in Committee the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Glen Abernethy

Agreed. All right, we’ll do those documents in that order after a short break. Thank you.

---SHORT RECESS

Consideration in Committee the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Glen Abernethy

We’ll now call Committee of the Whole to order. We’re reviewing Tabled Document 42-16(5), Supplementary Estimates No. 1, 2010-2011 (Operations Expenditures). Does committee agree?

Consideration in Committee the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

Consideration in Committee the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Glen Abernethy

Okay, I’d now like to ask the Minister responsible, the honourable Mr. Miltenberger, to make opening comments. Thank you.

Consideration in Committee the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Michael Miltenberger

Michael Miltenberger Thebacha

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I am here to present Supplementary Estimates No. 1, 2010-2011 (Operations Expenditures). This document outlines an increase of $3.274 million in operations expenditures for the 2010-2011 fiscal year.

The major items in this supplementary request include:

1. $1.093 million for the additional costs to be incurred as a result of the collective agreement between the Hay River Health and Social Services Authority and the Public Service Alliance of Canada.

2. $1 million for the Department of Environment and Natural Resources to fund the Aquatic Ecosystems Research Partnership Program with Wilfred Laurier University.

3. $405,000 for the Department of Transportation to carry over funding from 2009-10 to continue research and development projects funded as part of the Building Canada Plan. An offsetting amount was lapsed in 2009-10.

I am prepared to review the details of the supplementary estimates document. Thank you.

Consideration in Committee the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Glen Abernethy

Thank you very much, Mr. Minister. Would the Minister like to bring witnesses into the House?

Consideration in Committee the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Michael Miltenberger

Michael Miltenberger Thebacha

Yes, Mr. Chair.

Consideration in Committee the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Glen Abernethy

Does committee agree?

Consideration in Committee the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

Consideration in Committee the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Glen Abernethy

Okay, thank you, committee. I will now ask the Sergeant-at-Arms to please escort the witnesses into the Chamber.

Please introduce your witnesses.

Consideration in Committee the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Michael Miltenberger

Michael Miltenberger Thebacha

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Margaret Melhorn, deputy minister of Finance; Sandy Kalgutkar, deputy secretary to the FMB. Thank you.

Consideration in Committee the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Glen Abernethy

Thank you, Mr. Minister. I will now open the floor to general comments on Tabled Document 42-16(5), Supplementary Estimates No. 1, 2010-2011 (Operations Expenditures). Any comments? Mr. Ramsay.

Consideration in Committee the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

David Ramsay

David Ramsay Kam Lake

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Just a question on the first one and that’s $1.093 million for additional costs to incur as a result of the collective agreement between Hay River Health and Social Services Authority and the Public Service Alliance of Canada. I’m just wondering if the government has any plans going forward to bring those employees under the authority of the Government of the Northwest Territories. Currently they are outside of the other employees and I’m just wondering, seeing as we’re spending another over $1 million, I’m just wondering if anybody has a time frame on when that might happen. Thank you.

Consideration in Committee the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Glen Abernethy

Thank you, Mr. Ramsay. Minister Miltenberger.

Consideration in Committee the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Michael Miltenberger

Michael Miltenberger Thebacha

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. There are no imminent plans that I’m aware of. The money that’s here is, of course, I think patterned on the agreement that was signed with the UNW and subsequently had to negotiate an agreement with the staff in Hay River. Thank you.

Consideration in Committee the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

David Ramsay

David Ramsay Kam Lake

I guess there are a lot of complexities to the… You don’t just bring these employees under the GNWT’s banner overnight, but it’s been something that’s been talked about for a number of years and I think the government probably should be taking a look at it. I’m just wondering, from a budgeting perspective, wouldn’t it be easier if these employees were Government of the Northwest Territories employees? Thank you.

Consideration in Committee the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Michael Miltenberger

Michael Miltenberger Thebacha

From a program point of view, there are benefits to having everybody under one bargaining unit. From a fiscal perspective, our estimates are that it would cost in the neighbourhood of up to $11 million additional to transfer all the employees into the bargaining unit and deal with all the related issues such as pensions and superannuation. Thank you.

Consideration in Committee the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Glen Abernethy

Thank you, Minister Miltenberger. Mr. Krutko.

Consideration in Committee the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

David Krutko

David Krutko Mackenzie Delta

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Following up on similar questioning, I would just like to ask if there are any legal ramifications from doing this by way of being a separate health board. I think that, if anything, you know, we talk about taking all our mental health, alcohol and drug workers and bringing them into the government so that everybody’s treated fairly and everything else, so you don’t have the disparity between one group over the other. So I’m just wondering, is there a legal hold-up to doing this or is there the possibility of a legal challenge, or is it just that we don’t want to do it?

Consideration in Committee the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Glen Abernethy

Thank you, Mr. Krutko. Minister Miltenberger.

Consideration in Committee the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Michael Miltenberger

Michael Miltenberger Thebacha

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. The main consideration or impediment would be coming up with the up to possibly another $11 million in addition to the money that’s now before us. So it’s a monetary consideration. Thank you.

Consideration in Committee the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

David Krutko

David Krutko Mackenzie Delta

Mr. Chairman, in light of the situation we see in the different health boards around the Territory, I think that we have take hold of this situation because it is getting out of line by way of deficits and situations that we’re running. I think that, for the life of me, I don’t understand why it is that we continue to allow one health board to be operating independently of the rest of the system. Again, I’d like to ask the Minister, for $11 million, I think it’s better that we get on with it. Also, put everybody under one roof so that we can control the expenditures systems and not have one group doing one thing in light of everyone else trying to… So I’d just like to know exactly why is that.

Consideration in Committee the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Michael Miltenberger

Michael Miltenberger Thebacha

I’d just like to point out that it’s two different bargaining units, but all the program standards, all the other health programs and criteria are all consistent. The issue comes back very simply to, especially given the current recession and the circumstance we have been managing our money, of not having the… If we had $11 million free that we could do things with, would this be the issue that we would all collectively agree, of all the list of things we have to do, that this is where we want to put the money? So the issue comes back to having the availability of the necessary resources. Thank you.

Consideration in Committee the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

David Krutko

David Krutko Mackenzie Delta

So, Mr. Chair, from what I’m hearing from the Minister, if the Gwich’in wanted to have all their health boards and that in the Gwich’in Settlement Region operate independently, they can go right on and do it and come under a different system and follow what they do in Hay River without having to follow the rules we expect every health board to. So basically we’re endorsing independent boards to operate independently from the system by not doing anything.

Consideration in Committee the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Michael Miltenberger

Michael Miltenberger Thebacha

We’re not endorsing independent boards, Mr. Chairman, we are building the system where we’re going to come up with, for example by next year, one contribution agreement that all boards will have to sign so that it is a consistent document that lays out all the expectations, responsibilities, authorities and accountabilities.

What we have is basically an anomaly in our system where in Hay River they had a different setup a number of years ago. They unionized differently and when the health board came under the direct responsibility of the Government of the Northwest Territories, it was kept in place, once again initially for financial reasons. We looked at this back in the 15th Assembly, I believe, and it was for the same reasons deferred.

Consideration in Committee the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Glen Abernethy

Thank you, Minister Miltenberger. Mr. Bromley.

Consideration in Committee the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Bob Bromley

Bob Bromley Weledeh

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I’d just like to add a little bit to this discussion. I’m wondering if, well, obviously the costs are going up. I think earlier on in this Assembly we raised this pretty straightforwardly and the estimated cost there was $4 million to $5 million at that time. So this is something that’s going up in cost. I’m also very sensitive to the Finance Minister’s recognition of our current fiscal situation. Is there any room for managing this to the point where the one-time cost of finally getting it done would be more modest? Are there some time-related leave sorts of issues and so on that might be negotiated over a period of time to come to zero at the point when we’re actually going to do the transition? I thought I’d investigate the possibility of innovation in trying to spread the costs over a few fiscal years.

Consideration in Committee the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Glen Abernethy

Thank you, Mr. Bromley. Minister Miltenberger.

Consideration in Committee the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Michael Miltenberger

Michael Miltenberger Thebacha

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. There are two issues. As we bargain the collective agreements, of course, there’s the issue of parity on those pay and benefits. The single biggest issue where the largest dollar figure is attached is the superannuation pension benefits, because they’re two different programs, significantly different, resulting in that’s where the majority of the up to $11 million would be required. But we are working, on an ongoing basis, I mean, they’re watching very carefully between the two bargaining units to make sure that they are as close as possible in terms of those types of day-to-day benefits. Thank you.

Consideration in Committee the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Bob Bromley

Bob Bromley Weledeh

I’d like to move on to our second item. The $1 million to fund aquatics ecosystems research with Wilfred Laurier University, obviously it’s not very often that we do this sort of thing. I’m wondering if the Minister could give us a little background on what we’re getting for this substantial investment. Thank you.

Consideration in Committee the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Michael Miltenberger

Michael Miltenberger Thebacha

First, I’d just like to point out that what we are doing with this particular fund is leveraging about $8 million or so over the life of this project for our… The million dollars that we’re talking about for this year is already third-party funding, and we will be looking for the subsequent years of a quarter-million dollars a year or $200,000 a year, sorry, over the subsequent five years to similar third-party funding. What we’re going to get out of this is all the things we’ve talked about in terms of monitoring and better understanding our water and aquatic ecosystems up in the Northwest Territories.

The Wilfred Laurier has made a presentation to us and I have a project description that I would be happy to share with the Members. Oh, sorry. I understand you already have the project description. It lays out all the scientific research they’re going to do, working with ourselves and the aboriginal governments, to look at all the varied aspects of our aquatic ecosystem that we’re trying to better understand. Thank you.

Consideration in Committee the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Bob Bromley

Bob Bromley Weledeh

It sounds like a pretty reasonable investment: $8 million in return for a million of somebody else’s money. So I appreciate that.

On the final one, the Department of Transportation looking to carry over funding. I’ve heard for two years about research that’s supposed to be done related to climate change and highways. I’ve never seen any results on that and I’m wondering what have we learned so far for the research dollars we have spent. Is this additional money or ongoing money going to be also dedicated to the climate change research with regard to highway construction maintenance? Thank you.

Consideration in Committee the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Michael Miltenberger

Michael Miltenberger Thebacha

Mr. Chairman, to date we have two projects that work has been done on for the estimated cost of about $240,000. Those are the access roads to the Willow River gravel source in Aklavik and Highway No. 3 vulnerability assessment, and what we are looking at for 2010-11 is the risk assessment of NWT Transportation system using Indian and Northern Affairs Canada Adapting to Climate Change, a risk-based guide for arctic and northern communities. We want to do consultation of stakeholders in communities and all levels of government on the findings of the risk assessment. We are looking at some roundtable workshops on the impacts of climate change on winter roads and marine ferry operations. Some of the resources will be put towards a Department of Transportation’s Climate Change Adaptation Plan and work will be done on airport runway embankment and sub-grade classification and monitoring study as well as the Dempster Highway permafrost monitoring study. Thank you.

Consideration in Committee the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Bob Bromley

Bob Bromley Weledeh

Mr. Chairman, perhaps we can get commitment to see the results of that research on Highway No. 3. I believe that was climate related and the things like things that are diverging quite a bit from what I was initially told on the research direction of these research dollars. Perhaps we can mostly get a briefing at some point on what we are doing there in terms of climate change related research relative to the initial commitment of one or two million dollars for that research. Thank you.

Consideration in Committee the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Michael Miltenberger

Michael Miltenberger Thebacha

Mr. Chairman, with your indulgence, I would refer that question about commitments and program briefings to Minister Michael McLeod from Transportation.

Consideration in Committee the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Glen Abernethy

Minister Michael McLeod.

Consideration in Committee the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Michael McLeod

Michael McLeod Deh Cho

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. We would be pleased to provide the information as to our summary findings to the Members, including any potential projects that we have lined up for this coming year.

Consideration in Committee the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Glen Abernethy

Thank you, Minister McLeod. Next on my list is Ms. Bisaro.

Consideration in Committee the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Wendy Bisaro

Wendy Bisaro Frame Lake

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I have one comment and then a question. I would like to add my voice to those of my colleagues in terms of moving forward on bringing the employees of the Hay River Health and Social Services Authority into the GNWT workforce. I support particularly Mr. Bromley’s suggestion that there are little things or small things or bits and pieces that we can do working towards a final solution. I would encourage the Minister to certainly look at that and advance us as far as possible before we have to spend the $11 million twice over that he is referencing.

I do have a question in regards to the costs of the Collective Agreement increases for the Hay River Health and Social Services Authority. I note in the background material that we were given that the Collective Agreement was ratified on May 21, 2009, and yet we are now seeing the request for the funds for this increase in the Collective Agreement costs. I ask this question often; I am going to ask it again: why was this increase not able to be included in the main estimates which we only passed in February of 2010? There is quite a bit of time. That is a year ago pretty much from now that the Collective Agreement was passed and we are only seeing the expense now. I would like to know why. Thank you.

Consideration in Committee the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Glen Abernethy

Thank you, Ms. Bisaro. Mr. Kalgutkar.

Consideration in Committee the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Kalgutkar

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. The reason why it is taking so long to get them into the budget is due to the fact that these aren’t public servant employees of the GNWT so we have to go to the Hay River Health Board to get the payroll information. It did take the department some time to get that information and then conduct the analysis necessary to determine what funding was necessary. Thank you.

Consideration in Committee the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Wendy Bisaro

Wendy Bisaro Frame Lake

Mr. Chairman, I understand the answer but I guess it doesn’t please me very much. It is a bit distressing that it takes a year to get information and analyze it and then get it into our budget. That is a comment. I will leave it at that. Thank you.

Consideration in Committee the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Glen Abernethy

Thank you, Ms. Bisaro. Next on my list is Mr. Ramsay.

Consideration in Committee the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

David Ramsay

David Ramsay Kam Lake

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I just had a question on the million dollar investment with the partnership program with Wilfred Laurier. The question I have is: there has been a lot of research done in the Northwest Territories. Now, the question of ownership, who owns that knowledge at the end of the day I think is important to know. I just maybe would like to ask a question of the government. Who is ultimately going to own the report or the knowledge that is gleaned from this research work that is going to be done? Thank you.

Consideration in Committee the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Glen Abernethy

Thank you, Mr. Ramsay. Minister Miltenberger.

Consideration in Committee the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Michael Miltenberger

Michael Miltenberger Thebacha

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. The information and knowledge that is gained is going to come within a framework that we have for our research agenda where we insist on access and where appropriate ownership or where appropriate a shared ownership of the knowledge and information so that we can put it to full use. There will be scientific information that Wilfred Laurier will be putting to use, as well, as they look at how that fits into all the other scientific work that they are doing for us. We will have full and appropriate access to all the knowledge and information and scientific information that we gather. Thank you.

Consideration in Committee the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

David Ramsay

David Ramsay Kam Lake

Mr. Chairman, I thought I heard the Minister say, fits into the research agenda, but this new science agenda that the Government of the Northwest Territories has come up with, just so I am clear, this does fit in with that and this is a new way of doing business for the Government of the Northwest Territories so that we don’t just lose the information to universities in southern Canada and it can be kept in the Northwest Territories for our own use. Thank you.

Consideration in Committee the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Michael Miltenberger

Michael Miltenberger Thebacha

That is correct, Mr. Chairman.

Consideration in Committee the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Glen Abernethy

Thank you, Minister Miltenberger. Are there any more comments on general comments? Does committee agree that there are no further general comments?

Consideration in Committee the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

Consideration in Committee the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Glen Abernethy

Does committee agree to proceed with detail of the departments?

Consideration in Committee the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

Consideration in Committee the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Glen Abernethy

Detail begins on page 3. Health and Social Services, not previously authorized, program delivery support, $274,000.

Consideration in Committee the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

Consideration in Committee the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Glen Abernethy

Not previously authorized, health services programs, $755,000.

Consideration in Committee the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

Consideration in Committee the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Glen Abernethy

Not previously authorized, community health programs, $269,000.

Consideration in Committee the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

Consideration in Committee the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Glen Abernethy

Total department, not previously authorized, $1.29 million.

Consideration in Committee the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

Consideration in Committee the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Glen Abernethy

We will move along to page 4, Justice, operations expenditures, services to government, not previously authorized, $152,000.

Consideration in Committee the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

Consideration in Committee the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Glen Abernethy

Community justice and corrections, not previously authorized, $316,000.

Consideration in Committee the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

Consideration in Committee the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Glen Abernethy

Total department, not previously authorized, $468,000.

Consideration in Committee the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

Consideration in Committee the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Glen Abernethy

We will move along to page 5, Education, Culture and Employment, operations expenditures, education and culture, not previously authorized, $103,000.

Consideration in Committee the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

Consideration in Committee the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Glen Abernethy

Total department, not previously authorized, $103,000.

Consideration in Committee the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

Consideration in Committee the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Glen Abernethy

We are moving to page 6, Department of Transportation, operations expenditures, corporate services, not previously authorized, $405,000.

Consideration in Committee the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

Consideration in Committee the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Glen Abernethy

Total department, not previously authorized, $405,000.

Consideration in Committee the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

Consideration in Committee the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Glen Abernethy

Last, page, 7, Environment and Natural Resources, operations expenditures, corporate management, not previously authorized, $1 million.

Consideration in Committee the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

Consideration in Committee the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Glen Abernethy

Total department, not previously authorized, $1 million.

Consideration in Committee the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

Consideration in Committee the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Glen Abernethy

Does committee agree that we have concluded consideration of Tabled Document 42-16(5), Supplementary Appropriation Estimates No. 1, 2010-2011 (Operations Expenditures)?

Consideration in Committee the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

Consideration in Committee the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Glen Abernethy

We have concluded Tabled Document... Mrs. Groenewegen.

Jane Groenewegen

Jane Groenewegen Hay River South

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I move that consideration of Tabled Document 42-16(5), Supplementary Estimates No. 1, 2010-2011 (Operations Expenditures), be now concluded and that Tabled Document 42-16(5) be reported and recommended as ready for further consideration in a formal session through the form of an appropriation bill. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

The Chair

The Chair Glen Abernethy

Motion is on the floor. Motion is in order. To the motion.

Some Hon. Members

Question.

The Chair

The Chair Glen Abernethy

Question has been called.

---Carried

Sergeant-at-Arms, if you could please escort the witnesses out of the Chamber. Thank you.

Next on our agenda, as agreed previously, is Tabled Document 43-16(5), Supplementary Estimates No. 3, 2010-2011 (Infrastructure Expenditures). Is committee agreed that we proceed with Tabled Document 43-16(5)?

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

The Chair

The Chair Glen Abernethy

Since we have agreed, I would now like to ask the Minister responsible, the honourable Minister Miltenberger, to please make opening comments on Tabled Document 43-16(5), Supplementary Estimates No. 3.

Michael Miltenberger

Michael Miltenberger Thebacha

Thank you, Mr. Chair. I’m here to present Supplementary Estimates No. 3, 2010-2011 (Infrastructure Expenditures). This document outlines an increase of $29.254 million for operations expenditures and an increase of $106.800 million for capital investment expenditures in the 2010-2011 fiscal year. The total supplementary request is $136.134 million.

This supplementary estimate includes:

1. $135.9 million for the carry-over of funding for infrastructure projects. This funding was approved and lapsed in the 2009-10 fiscal period.

The carry-overs for capital investment expenditures in this supplementary estimates represent about 34 percent of the 2009-10 revised capital budget. This percentage is equal to last year’s, but is significantly lower than carry-overs from the 2007-08 and 2006-07 fiscal periods, which were 48 percent and 43 percent respectively.

Given the significant size of our capital budget in 2009-10, a record $446 million, I am pleased to see that the new capital planning process, including the fall approval of the capital estimates, is yielding positive results.

1. $218 million for the Department of Education, Culture and Employment to increase the planned size of the community learning centre on the Hay River Reserve, which will be offset by a contribution from the K’atlodeeche First Nation.

I am prepared to review the details of the supplementary estimates of the document.

The Chair

The Chair Glen Abernethy

Thank you, Minister Miltenberger. Would the Minister like to bring in witnesses into the House?

Michael Miltenberger

Michael Miltenberger Thebacha

Yes, Mr. Chairman.

The Chair

The Chair Glen Abernethy

Does the committee agree?

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

The Chair

The Chair Glen Abernethy

I thank you, committee. I’ll now ask the Sergeant-at-Arms to please escort the witnesses into the Chamber.

Thank you. Minister Miltenberger, can you please introduce your witnesses.

Michael Miltenberger

Michael Miltenberger Thebacha

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Margaret Melhorn, deputy minister of Finance; Sandy Kalgutkar, deputy secretary to the Financial Management Board. Thank you.

The Chair

The Chair Glen Abernethy

Thank you, Minister Miltenberger, and welcome to the witnesses. I will now open the floor to general comments on Tabled Document 46-16(5), Supplementary Estimates No. 3, 2010-2011 (Infrastructure Expenditures). Are there any general comments? Mr. Krutko.

David Krutko

David Krutko Mackenzie Delta

Thank you, Mr. Chair. In regard to the Building Canada funds and the funds that we received from Ottawa, I noted that there are a lot of cost overruns associated with that program. I’d just like to know from the Minister exactly what are we doing to…because the issue I have a problem with, especially in this government, is that we have a new system and every time a community asks for assistance from this government, they’re saying, oh well, you get gas tax money so you should offset that cost from your gas tax money, and if the government is now saying, well, we’re not responsible, but yet I noted from a lot of these expenditures, which are over and above the expenditures of those items as they were presented by way of the Building Canada funds and also matching the funds from communities. So I’d just like to know from the department, have we set a precedent here in regards to a notion that you go to a community and tell them sorry, we can’t help you, but we’re able to help out other communities by investing government funds over and above the obligation that we have under gas tax? So I’d just like to know, if that’s the case we should ensure that we offer that to all communities regardless of the situation that they’re in since the precedent is now set.

The Chair

The Chair Glen Abernethy

Thank you, Mr. Krutko. Minister Miltenberger.

Michael Miltenberger

Michael Miltenberger Thebacha

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. If I understand the question correctly, I just want to reassure the Member that the process we have in terms of flowing money to communities, gas tax money or stimulus money, is done according to an agreed to formula and process and we’ve honoured that and continue to honour that. Unless the Member can give me a specific example, I’m not clear how to respond to this from a point any further than that. Thank you.

David Krutko

David Krutko Mackenzie Delta

Just a couple that jump out at me is the bypass road in regard to Yellowknife where there was an arrangement in place. Apparently the project went over budget so this government came along and helped them out there. The same thing with the Inuvik paving project, which again, those large municipalities receive a majority of the gas tax money based on population, but yet when it comes to communities with dust control and those types of issues, realizing that communities don’t have the capacity to make any major capital investment dealing with chipseal or dust control, we don’t seem to have the ability to assist them. But yet, where they should have the ability to pay for these expenditures by way of their municipal gas tax that they do get because of the population it seems like they still continue to get dollars through this program. Thank you.

Michael Miltenberger

Michael Miltenberger Thebacha

The issue of dust control in the small communities is one that is on, and continues to be on, the table of the Rural and Remote Committee and we’re looking at some options for this year. In the past, once again, it’s not clear to me and I don’t have any information at the level the Member is asking about in terms of a possible Inuvik paving overrun or the other item or project that he mentioned. Thank you.

David Krutko

David Krutko Mackenzie Delta

Maybe the Minister can check with his advisors. Have there been cost overruns on those two projects where the government had to come in with the dollars to ensure those projects went ahead?

Michael Miltenberger

Michael Miltenberger Thebacha

With your indulgence, once again, I’d like to refer this question to Minister Robert C. McLeod. Thank you.

The Chair

The Chair Glen Abernethy

Thank you, Minister Miltenberger. We’ll go to Minister Robert C. McLeod.

Robert C. McLeod

Robert C. McLeod Inuvik Twin Lakes

Thank you, Mr. Chair. The communities have contributed money to these particular projects. The bypass road, I know the municipal government, the City of Yellowknife, contributed a significant amount of money. The one in Inuvik, it wasn’t a cost overrun. They had an application in. These were all application based. They had an application in and because of the cancellation of another project, the decision was made to make another contribution of I think it was $263,000 or $303,000, but their share of it. They’ve paid over $3 million out of their own budget for this particular project. It was application based; they met all of the criteria of the projects. As far as cost overruns, I know the Inuvik ones for sure there was not a cost overrun. I’d have to follow up on the Yellowknife one, but it would be the municipal governments put in their share of it and the rest came from the Building Canada Plan. Thank you.

The Chair

The Chair Glen Abernethy

Thank you, Minister McLeod. Mr. Krutko.

David Krutko

David Krutko Mackenzie Delta

Thank you, Mr. Chair. In regard to the Inuvik Paving Project, the estimate for the project was basically $2.8 million, which the federal share was $349,000. Out of that there was a shared cost between the territorial government and the municipal government of $2.45 million. So I’d like to know what is the breakdown for that particular amount in regard to the infrastructure funding that was allocated.

Robert C. McLeod

Robert C. McLeod Inuvik Twin Lakes

Thank you. The federal government’s share was exactly as the Member pointed out and the balance came from the municipal government.

The Chair

The Chair Glen Abernethy

Mr. Ramsay.

David Ramsay

David Ramsay Kam Lake

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I just wanted to comment briefly on the $135.9 million in carry-overs for infrastructure projects. I’ve given the government credit in the past for its infrastructure plan and the new way it looks at capital projects. Maybe what I’m really looking for is a comment from the government on this. Even at 34 percent, it’s still a large number that we’re looking at carrying over. It’s $136 million. I’m just wondering if we have a game plan going forward. I know we’re going to revert back to more historic numbers a couple years from now and that’s $75 million a year in capital, but what is the plan for getting this money out the door and getting these projects done? Thank you.

The Chair

The Chair Glen Abernethy

Thank you, Mr. Ramsay. Minister Miltenberger.

Michael Miltenberger

Michael Miltenberger Thebacha

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. The capital plan, all these projects are on the books. They, to one degree or another, have work underway and we’re going to continue to conclude those, carry them forward and hopefully conclude them. If they’re single year and if they’re multi-year, we’ll deal with those over the proposed life expectancy in addition to the projects we have this year. We’ll be working very hard to make sure that we don’t exceed the 34 percent overall that we carried over for two years in a row now. Thank you.

David Ramsay

David Ramsay Kam Lake

I guess, if I could, I’d like to see us, you know, we’ve got 16 months left to try to get as much of this money out there as we possibly can in the next 16 months and get it working for the people and the economy here in the Northwest Territories. Maybe if the Minister could just comment on whether or not the government believes that the majority of our capital plan, what remains in the capital plan including the carry-overs will be concluded prior to October 2011. Thank you.

Michael Miltenberger

Michael Miltenberger Thebacha

With your indulgence again, I’d ask Minister Michael McLeod to speak to the broader system of capital planning through Public Works and Services.

The Chair

The Chair Glen Abernethy

Thank you, Minister Miltenberger. Minister Michael McLeod.

Michael McLeod

Michael McLeod Deh Cho

Thank you, Mr. Chair. Mr. Chair, as the Members are aware, we have changed our system in the last few years to become more efficient and have our capital plan delivery more effective. We’re certainly starting to see the results of that. We’ve had a very large capital budget for the last couple of years and it’s been, I think, still proven that we can move these forward. We have a fairly large carry-over. Percentage-wise it’s not as large as what we’ve had historically, but I can confirm to the Member that I think in excess of 90 percent of these projects are signed off, are in the system and they’re moving forward. So we should see these all dealt with in this coming year.

The Chair

The Chair Glen Abernethy

Thank you, Minister McLeod. Any more general comments? Mr. Bromley.

Bob Bromley

Bob Bromley Weledeh

Thank you, Mr. Chair. Just a quick question. I understand that the stimulus dollars cannot be carried over beyond this coming March 31st. If that’s true, I’m wondering, do we have assurance that those dollars will be completely expended this fiscal year. Thank you.

The Chair

The Chair Glen Abernethy

Thank you, Mr. Bromley. Minister Miltenberger.

Michael Miltenberger

Michael Miltenberger Thebacha

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. It’s planned to have all that federal money expended within the time frames allocated, pointing out, once again, I think that we were probably one of the most successful jurisdictions when it came to taking full access of the opportunities that we had with the stimulus fund. Thank you.

Bob Bromley

Bob Bromley Weledeh

I may have missed it, but how much of the stimulus dollars have we carried over into this year?

The Chair

The Chair Glen Abernethy

Mr. Minister. Mr. Kalgutkar.

Kalgutkar

I’m going to have to commit to getting that information to the Member. Thank you.

Bob Bromley

Bob Bromley Weledeh

I appreciate that offer and I’ll take Mr. Kalgutkar up on that. I think the main point is we need to be on top of that, because these dollars will disappear at the end of this fiscal year. It’s not usually, or often at least, that we have the opportunity to carry them over and this is sort of that last kick at getting those spent in a productive way. So we need to be on top of that and I appreciate that offer.

The Chair

The Chair Glen Abernethy

Thank you, Mr. Bromley. Not really a question but more of a comment. Are there any more general comments? Is committee agreed that there are no further general comments?

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

The Chair

The Chair Glen Abernethy

Does committee agree to proceed to the detail of the departments?

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

The Chair

The Chair Glen Abernethy

Detail begins on page 5. Page 5, Municipal and Community Affairs, operations expenditures, community operations, not previously authorized, $16.221 million.

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

The Chair

The Chair Glen Abernethy

Regional operations, not previously authorized, $10.388 million.

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

The Chair

The Chair Glen Abernethy

Total department, not previously authorized, $26.609 million.

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

The Chair

The Chair Glen Abernethy

We’ll move along to page 6, Health and Social Services, operations expenditures, community health programs, not previously authorized, $440,000.

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

The Chair

The Chair Glen Abernethy

Total department, not previously authorized, $440,000. Mr. Krutko.

David Krutko

David Krutko Mackenzie Delta

Can the Minister give us the total price so far for this project in regard to the dementia centre?

The Chair

The Chair Glen Abernethy

Thank you, Mr. Krutko. Minister Miltenberger.

Michael Miltenberger

Michael Miltenberger Thebacha

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I’d ask to refer that question to Minister Lee.

The Chair

The Chair Glen Abernethy

Thank you, Minister Miltenberger. Minister Lee.

Sandy Lee

Sandy Lee Range Lake

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. The total price tag is $15 million.

David Krutko

David Krutko Mackenzie Delta

Is that $15.440 million?

The Chair

The Chair Glen Abernethy

Thank you, Mr. Krutko. Minister Miltenberger.

Michael Miltenberger

Michael Miltenberger Thebacha

Mr. Chairman, there was an offsetting amount lapsed last year so this is not new money. Thank you.

The Chair

The Chair Glen Abernethy

Thank you, Minister Miltenberger. We’re on page 6, Health and Social Services, operations expenditures, community health programs, not previously authorized, $440,000.

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

The Chair

The Chair Glen Abernethy

Total department, not previously authorized, $440,000.

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

The Chair

The Chair Glen Abernethy

We’ll move along to page 7. Education, Culture and Employment, operations expenditures, education and culture, not previously authorized, $2.051 million.

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

The Chair

The Chair Glen Abernethy

Total department, not previously authorized, $2.051 million.

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

The Chair

The Chair Glen Abernethy

Move along to page 8. Transportation, operations expenditures, highways, not previously authorized, $154,000. Mr. Krutko.

David Krutko

David Krutko Mackenzie Delta

Again, can the Minister give me a total price on that particular project?

The Chair

The Chair Glen Abernethy

Thank you, Mr. Krutko. Minister Miltenberger.

Michael Miltenberger

Michael Miltenberger Thebacha

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I’d refer that question to Minister Michael McLeod. Thank you.

The Chair

The Chair Glen Abernethy

Thank you, Minister Miltenberger. Minister Michael McLeod.

Michael McLeod

Michael McLeod Deh Cho

Mr. Chairman, I believe the final price was a little over $7 million.

The Chair

The Chair Glen Abernethy

Mr. Krutko.

David Krutko

David Krutko Mackenzie Delta

A little over $7 million? Are you talking $7.5 million or are you talking $7.2 million? What exactly was the price for this project?

The Chair

The Chair Glen Abernethy

Thank you, Mr. Krutko. Minister Miltenberger.

Michael Miltenberger

Michael Miltenberger Thebacha

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I’ll commit to get the Member the specific figure, including the $154,000 that’s lapsed. Thank you.

David Krutko

David Krutko Mackenzie Delta

My understanding is that the project was originally priced at $7 million, which was supposed to be $2.5 million in regard to the federal stimulus money and also the $2.5 million was supposed to come from the City of Yellowknife, but now they are saying it is over the $7 million price tag. I would just like to know exactly how much over. Thank you.

Michael Miltenberger

Michael Miltenberger Thebacha

Mr. Chairman, I will just reiterate the commitment to provide that information to committee.

The Chair

The Chair Glen Abernethy

Thank you, Minister Miltenberger. We are on page 8, Transportation, operations expenditures, highways, not previously authorized, $154,000.

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

The Chair

The Chair Glen Abernethy

Total department, not previously authorized, $154,000.

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

The Chair

The Chair Glen Abernethy

We will move along to page 9, Legislative Assembly, capital investment expenditures, Office of the Clerk, not previously authorized, $431,000.

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

The Chair

The Chair Glen Abernethy

Total department, not previously authorized, $431,000.

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

The Chair

The Chair Glen Abernethy

We are moving along to page 10, Department of Finance, capital investment expenditures, office of the chief information officer, not previously authorized, $309,000.

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

The Chair

The Chair Glen Abernethy

Total department, not previously authorized, $309,000.

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

The Chair

The Chair Glen Abernethy

We are moving along to page 11, Municipal and Community Affairs, capital investment expenditures, regional operations, not previously authorized, $67,000.

The Chair

The Chair Glen Abernethy

Mr. Menicoche.

Kevin A. Menicoche

Kevin A. Menicoche Nahendeh

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Just with respect to the details of the $67,000, what is that being used for?

The Chair

The Chair Glen Abernethy

Thank you, Mr. Menicoche. Minister Miltenberger.

Michael Miltenberger

Michael Miltenberger Thebacha

Mr. Chairman, once again I will commit to get the information for the Member.

Kevin A. Menicoche

Kevin A. Menicoche Nahendeh

Mr. Chairman, I am hoping that it is to finish off the flooring at the Nahanni Butte gymnasium. I don’t know if he can answer that quickly at all. Thank you.

Michael Miltenberger

Michael Miltenberger Thebacha

Mr. Chairman, I will refer that one to Minister Robert C. McLeod.

The Chair

The Chair Glen Abernethy

Thank you, Minister Miltenberger. Minister Robert C. McLeod.

Robert C. McLeod

Robert C. McLeod Inuvik Twin Lakes

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. The $67,000 is for funding to rectify outstanding deficiencies, so any deficiencies would be taken care of with the $67,000. Thank you.

Kevin A. Menicoche

Kevin A. Menicoche Nahendeh

Thank you very much. Perhaps we have to pursue it further tomorrow. I just wanted to get details on the completion of the floor for the Nahanni Butte gymnasium, but if they don’t have that, I can ask that in the House tomorrow. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

The Chair

The Chair Glen Abernethy

Thank you, Mr. Menicoche. I didn’t hear a question. We will go back to page 11, Municipal and Community Affairs, capital investment expenditures, regional operations, not previously authorized, $67,000.

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

The Chair

The Chair Glen Abernethy

Total department, not previously authorized, $67,000.

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

The Chair

The Chair Glen Abernethy

We are moving along to page 12, Public Works and Services, capital investment expenditures, asset management, not previously authorized, $8.125 million. Mr. Krutko.

David Krutko

David Krutko Mackenzie Delta

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I would just like to know, since there is $406,000 going into the office building in Inuvik, is that a cost overrun for the building since it is not previously authorized? Is that over and above the original price for that facility?

The Chair

The Chair Glen Abernethy

Minister Miltenberger.

Michael Miltenberger

Michael Miltenberger Thebacha

Mr. Chairman, that is carrying over. Thank you.

David Krutko

David Krutko Mackenzie Delta

Can the Minister give me the final price as expected for that facility?

Michael Miltenberger

Michael Miltenberger Thebacha

Mr. Chairman, I will commit to get that complete project information for the Member.

David Krutko

David Krutko Mackenzie Delta

If the Minister doesn’t have it, maybe one of his counterparts might have it, so maybe he can suggest a further question to the Minister of Public Works.

Michael Miltenberger

Michael Miltenberger Thebacha

What I will do is just reiterate my commitment. We will get that information for committee. Thank you.

David Krutko

David Krutko Mackenzie Delta

I will wait.

The Chair

The Chair Glen Abernethy

Thank you, Mr. Krutko. We are on page 12, Public Works and Services, capital investment expenditures, asset management, not previously authorized, $8.125 million.

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

The Chair

The Chair Glen Abernethy

Petroleum products, not previously authorized, $2.735 million.

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

The Chair

The Chair Glen Abernethy

Technology Service Centre, not previously authorized, $2.420 million.

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

The Chair

The Chair Glen Abernethy

Total department, not previously authorized, $13.280 million. Mr. Krutko.

The Chair

The Chair Glen Abernethy

Mr. Krutko.

David Krutko

David Krutko Mackenzie Delta

Again, with the Technology Service Centre, I would like to know if that project is on budget and are we going to hopefully not see any cost overruns. Could I get a price on that one?

The Chair

The Chair Glen Abernethy

Thank you, Mr. Krutko. Minister Miltenberger.

Michael Miltenberger

Michael Miltenberger Thebacha

Mr. Chairman, I will refer this to Minister McLeod about the new data centre in Yellowknife for $2.379 million and whether it is on budget.

The Chair

The Chair Glen Abernethy

Thank you, Minister Miltenberger. We will go to Minister Michael McLeod.

Michael McLeod

Michael McLeod Deh Cho

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. The new data centre is a multi-year contract that has already been awarded. It is a $7.2 million contract. Work is well underway and the project is currently scheduled for completion by September 2010.

The Chair

The Chair Glen Abernethy

Thank you, Minister McLeod. I think the question also included is it on budget? Thank you.

Michael McLeod

Michael McLeod Deh Cho

Of course, Mr. Chairman.

The Chair

The Chair Glen Abernethy

Thank you, Minister McLeod. Mr. Krutko.

David Krutko

David Krutko Mackenzie Delta

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I am not asking questions in spite. I want to make sure that we are trying to be fiscally responsible. We realize we are probably going to have a tough year next year. I want to make sure that we monitor these programs going forward. I think that it is important to get this information hopefully by the time we conclude this. I would just like to ensure that we are on budget and we are trying to control the expenditures on these projects and we don’t have them run away from us like the Deh Cho Bridge.

The Chair

The Chair Glen Abernethy

Thank you, Mr. Krutko. That is more of a comment. I won’t refer to the Minister. Next on the list is Mr. Bromley.

Bob Bromley

Bob Bromley Weledeh

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I think that comment that Mr. Krutko made is completely in line with the concern that many of us have, given our fiscal situation and so on. Basically the wording that is used here, “an offsetting amount was lapsed in the 2009-2010 fiscal year,” doesn’t clarify whether the project was on budget, whether exactly the same amount was lapsed as being proposed for expenditure here. If that is actually the case, maybe the Minister could just say yes in every case. These are simply the same dollars and that would clarify it, but if not, then I would like to say that Mr. Krutko’s question is relevant. Are we on target and on budget with all of these projects? We should get an update as soon as possible on that. Thank you.

The Chair

The Chair Glen Abernethy

Thank you, Mr. Bromley. Minister Miltenberger.

Michael Miltenberger

Michael Miltenberger Thebacha

Mr. Chairman, just to point out that we are carrying over lapsed funds from one year to the next, but the issue of the project updates I will refer that to Minister Michael McLeod in terms of a commitment to or is there a request made for information on all of the projects referred to, with your indulgence. Thank you.

The Chair

The Chair Glen Abernethy

Thank you, Minister Miltenberger. We will go to Minister Michael McLeod.

Michael McLeod

Michael McLeod Deh Cho

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. We do have a very large capital budget as we had over the last couple of years. We have managed, through Public Works, $162 million worth of projects. We have status reports including the budget amounts Mr. Krutko is asking about. We could provide an update. We can give the status of each and every project that we have under our responsibilities. We would be glad to do that at any point.

The Chair

The Chair Glen Abernethy

Thank you, Minister McLeod. Mr. Bromley.

Bob Bromley

Bob Bromley Weledeh

I think I will leave it at that. I think that the concern is clear. We will accept new information.

The Chair

The Chair Glen Abernethy

Thank you, Mr. Bromley. We are on page 12, Technology Service Centre, not previously authorized, $2.420 million.

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

The Chair

The Chair Glen Abernethy

Total department, $13.280 million.

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

The Chair

The Chair Glen Abernethy

Okay, moving along to page 13, Health and Social Services, capital investment expenditures, health services programs, not previously authorized, $19.498 million.

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

The Chair

The Chair Glen Abernethy

Community health programs, not previously authorized, $3.555 million.

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

The Chair

The Chair Glen Abernethy

Total department, not previously authorized, $23.053 million.

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

The Chair

The Chair Glen Abernethy

Moving along to page 14, Justice, capital investment expenditures, court services, not previously authorized, $100,000.

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

The Chair

The Chair Glen Abernethy

Community justice and corrections, not previously authorized, $1.073 million. Mr. Krutko.

David Krutko

David Krutko Mackenzie Delta

I just noted that there is the Inuvik Young Offender Facility. Is it $500,000. Could you just give us an illustration of what that $500,000 is for?

The Chair

The Chair Glen Abernethy

Thank you, Mr. Krutko. Minister Miltenberger. Thank you, Minister Miltenberger. Mr. Kalgutkar.

Kalgutkar

Thank you, Mr. Chair. The $553,000 is to carry over funding to complete the engineering study on their foundation work.

The Chair

The Chair Glen Abernethy

Thank you, Mr. Kalgutkar. Mr. Krutko.

David Krutko

David Krutko Mackenzie Delta

I’d like to ask, are there any other facilities that are falling in this category for infrastructure? Because I think that foundation problem can be pretty expensive. Are there other of these types of projects coming forward in regard to foundation problems in the Inuvik region?

The Chair

The Chair Glen Abernethy

Thank you, Mr. Krutko. Minister Miltenberger.

Michael Miltenberger

Michael Miltenberger Thebacha

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Not that I am aware of. Thank you.

David Krutko

David Krutko Mackenzie Delta

I thought he would say yes, because it is a reality of structural problems in the Inuvik region, especially to do with pilings and I think there is a report out there, an intensive report, on public facilities in the Inuvik region over the last number years. So I’m just wondering, realizing that this is one facility for half a million dollars dealing with foundations. So I’d just like to ask the Minister if he can look at the reviews and reports that have been done and come forward and identify those other facilities that have similar problems in light of the budget going forward, because I think it’s important that we do have that information when making these types of decisions. Thank you.

Michael Miltenberger

Michael Miltenberger Thebacha

I’ll refer that question to Minister Michael McLeod.

The Chair

The Chair Glen Abernethy

Thank you, Minister Miltenberger. Minister Michael McLeod.

Michael McLeod

Michael McLeod Deh Cho

Mr. Chairman, we have a number of projects that are listed under deferred maintenance that will involve foundation work and pile repair, including the Moose Kerr School. There’s work that’s being carried over from that facility. Also the park visitors centre in Fort McPherson. There’s a retrofit in Whati, the Grand de Tour Apartments need work and the Arctic Family Medical Clinic and nurses’ residence in Inuvik. We’d be happy to provide more information to the Members if they so wish.

The Chair

The Chair Glen Abernethy

Thank you, Minister McLeod. Mr. Krutko.

David Krutko

David Krutko Mackenzie Delta

Thank you, Mr. Chair. Again, I think this is something that we have to monitor closely, because with the changing climate, as we can see, this problem is going to become more apparent, and if anything it’s going to become a bigger headache than we’d hope. I think it’s not only going to be public infrastructure, it’s going to be the majority of the infrastructure by way of roads, buildings and also looking at the foundation of movement around communities. I think that we have to keep a close eye on that. So I’d just like to request that we do get updates on this going forward, realizing there is a situation that we have to monitor closely. Thank you.

The Chair

The Chair Glen Abernethy

Thank you, Mr. Krutko. Minister Miltenberger.

Michael Miltenberger

Michael Miltenberger Thebacha

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. That request would be captured under the commitment by Minister Michael McLeod to provide a project update on all the projects contained in this carry-over. Thank you.

The Chair

The Chair Glen Abernethy

Thank you, Minister Miltenberger. Next on the list, Mr. Ramsay.

David Ramsay

David Ramsay Kam Lake

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I’m just wondering on the North Slave Correctional Centre, the flooring replacement, that building is not that old. It’s coming on eight years, I suppose. Why would we be needing to replace the floor for $141,000? I guess the second question would be why couldn’t what would be a project that you think would get done in one year couldn’t get done? Thank you.

The Chair

The Chair Glen Abernethy

Thank you, Mr. Ramsay. Minister Miltenberger.

Michael Miltenberger

Michael Miltenberger Thebacha

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. The information I have indicates this was a two-phase project. They’re into the second phase. I’d have to commit to get that detail of exactly the condition, what happened that contributed to the money being required for the flooring, but they’re into the second phase of completing the project. So I’ll commit to get that information. Thank you.

David Ramsay

David Ramsay Kam Lake

I guess if the Minister is going to get that information, I’d like to know, given the fact that that’s an institution, I mean the flooring that would go into a facility like that should be of a grade and a quality that’s going to stand the test of time and not need to be replaced six or seven years out. So maybe if the Minister could find out if there is any kind of warranty or any kind of provision for whoever put it in to help in the replacement cost of it, that would be great. Thank you.

The Chair

The Chair Bob Bromley

Thank you, Mr. Ramsay. Minister Miltenberger.

Michael Miltenberger

Michael Miltenberger Thebacha

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Just to point out that this project was approved in the 2009-10 capital planning process with all the attendant and accompanying documentation, but I’ll commit to provide an update to the Member or to the committee in keeping with Minister McLeod’s commitment. Thank you.

The Chair

The Chair Bob Bromley

Thank you, Mr. Minister. Further, Mr. Ramsay? Thank you. Committee, we’re on page 14, community justice and corrections, $1.073 million.

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

The Chair

The Chair Bob Bromley

I’ll just have to repeat that, $1.073 million, not previously authorized.

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

The Chair

The Chair Bob Bromley

Thank you. Services to the public, $355,000, not previously authorized. Ms. Bisaro.

Wendy Bisaro

Wendy Bisaro Frame Lake

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I do have a question in regard to these two projects. I understand from the background information that these projects are being done in partnership and consultation with Nunavut. Could I get an explanation as to why we’re doing it in partnership with Nunavut? Thank you.

The Chair

The Chair Glen Abernethy

Thank you, Ms. Bisaro. Minister Miltenberger.

Michael Miltenberger

Michael Miltenberger Thebacha

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. The main reason would be that when division came, we basically kept the same systems in both territories and I’m assuming any updates to the technology or the databases would be similar, so there are economies of scale possibly by cooperating and sharing those efforts. Thank you.

Wendy Bisaro

Wendy Bisaro Frame Lake

Thanks for the explanation. I guess my next question would then be if we are sharing the system, are we also sharing the costs? Thank you.

Michael Miltenberger

Michael Miltenberger Thebacha

Yes, Mr. Chairman, and part of the delay has been the paperwork and information flowing back and forth between jurisdictions. Thank you.

The Chair

The Chair Glen Abernethy

Thank you, Minister Miltenberger. We’re on page 14, services to the public, not previously authorized, $355,000.

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

The Chair

The Chair Glen Abernethy

Agreed. Total department, not previously authorized, $1.528 million.

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

The Chair

The Chair Glen Abernethy

Agreed. We’re on page 15, Education, Culture and Employment, capital investment expenditures, education and culture, not previously authorized, $23.883 million. Mr. Krutko.

David Krutko

David Krutko Mackenzie Delta

Thank you, Mr. Chair. Again, in regard to the capital carry-overs, the Inuvik school project, $21 million. Again, with that large amount of carry-overs, is the project on schedule and to be completed by a specific date previously scheduled? Are we looking at a delay and is it on budget?

The Chair

The Chair Glen Abernethy

Thank you, Mr. Krutko. Minister Miltenberger.

Michael Miltenberger

Michael Miltenberger Thebacha

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I will refer that question to Minister Michael McLeod.

The Chair

The Chair Glen Abernethy

Thank you, Minister Miltenberger. Minister Michael McLeod.

Michael McLeod

Michael McLeod Deh Cho

Thank you, Mr. Chair. Mr. Chair, the Inuvik school project is probably our largest building project that we have in Public Works and Services, at $115 million. We have a carry-over of $21.66 million for this project. This is a result of an accumulation of the budget over several years. As the project was being planned, there was money being built up and now we are expending those dollars. The project is on schedule, is on time and is on budget. Thank you.

The Chair

The Chair Glen Abernethy

Thank you, Minister McLeod. Mr. Krutko.

David Krutko

David Krutko Mackenzie Delta

Thank you, Mr. Chair. Just keeping the Members informed of the process and, more importantly, ensuring we keep the project on budget and control the expenditures of the government realizing we are looking at tough times going ahead. So I’m just keeping that in mind. Thank you.

The Chair

The Chair Glen Abernethy

Thank you, Mr. Krutko. More of a comment. Next on my list, Ms. Bisaro.

Wendy Bisaro

Wendy Bisaro Frame Lake

Thank you, Mr. Chair. I note in this section that Ecole St. Joe’s portable classroom for $175,000. This is a new school project, I thought. I’m wondering why we’re spending money on portables. Thank you.

The Chair

The Chair Glen Abernethy

Thank you, Ms. Bisaro. Minister Miltenberger.

Michael Miltenberger

Michael Miltenberger Thebacha

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Funding for the modular units was approved in 2007-08 Supplementary Appropriation No. 2. Modular units were located in Ecole St. Joseph site temporarily until the renovation of the school was complete. Carry-over of funding is required to relocate the modular units to allow phase three of Ecole St. Joseph renovation...(inaudible)...project to be complete. The modular units might be removed from Ecole St. Joseph site June 2010.

Wendy Bisaro

Wendy Bisaro Frame Lake

If I could ask the Minister to advise where these units are going. Thank you. Where they are being moved to?

Michael Miltenberger

Michael Miltenberger Thebacha

I’ll commit to get that information for committee.

Wendy Bisaro

Wendy Bisaro Frame Lake

Thank you.

The Chair

The Chair Glen Abernethy

We’re on page 15, Education, Culture and Employment, capital investment expenditures, education and culture, not previously authorized, $23.883 million.

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

The Chair

The Chair Glen Abernethy

Advanced education and careers, not previously authorized, $2.833 million.

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

The Chair

The Chair Glen Abernethy

Total department, not previously authorized, $26.716 million.

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

The Chair

The Chair Glen Abernethy

Move along to page 16, Transportation, capital investment expenditures, airports, not previously authorized, $8.558 million.

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

The Chair

The Chair Glen Abernethy

Highways, not previously authorized, $30.078 million.

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

The Chair

The Chair Glen Abernethy

Moving along to page 17 still on the Department of Transportation, Transportation, continued, capital investment expenditures, marine, not previously authorized, $172,000.

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

The Chair

The Chair Glen Abernethy

Road licensing and safety, not previously authorized, $921,000.

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

The Chair

The Chair Glen Abernethy

Total department, not previously authorized, $39.729 million.

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

The Chair

The Chair Glen Abernethy

Let’s move along to page 18, Industry, Tourism and Investment, capital investment expenditures, tourism and parks, not previously authorized, $1.372 million.

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

The Chair

The Chair Glen Abernethy

Total department, not previously authorized, $1.372 million.

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

The Chair

The Chair Glen Abernethy

Moving along to page 19, Environment and Natural Resources, capital investment expenditures, corporate management, not previously authorized, $211,000.

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

The Chair

The Chair Glen Abernethy

Forest management, not previously authorized, $184,000.

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

The Chair

The Chair Glen Abernethy

Total department, not previously authorized, $395,000.

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

The Chair

The Chair Glen Abernethy

Okay. Does committee agree that we have concluded consideration of Tabled Document 43-16(5), Supplementary Estimates No. 3, 2010-2011 (Infrastructure Expenditures)?

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

The Chair

The Chair Glen Abernethy

Mr. Ramsay.

David Ramsay

David Ramsay Kam Lake

Thank you, Mr. Chair. I move that consideration of Tabled Document 43-16(5), Supplementary Estimates No. 3, 2010-2011 (Infrastructure Expenditures), be now concluded and that Tabled Document 43-16(5) be reported and recommended as ready for further consideration in formal session through the form of an appropriation bill. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

The Chair

The Chair Glen Abernethy

Thank you, Mr. Ramsay. A motion is on the floor and is being distributed.

Some Hon. Members

Question.

The Chair

The Chair Glen Abernethy

Question is being called.

---Carried

Sergeant-at-Arms, please escort the witnesses out of the Chamber and thank you very much to the witnesses for joining us today.

Based on the previous decision of committee, next on our agenda is Tabled Document 4-16(5), Executive Summary of the Report of the Joint Review Panel for the Mackenzie Gas Project, and we will open the floor to general comments. Mr. Bromley.

Bob Bromley

Bob Bromley Weledeh

Thank you, Mr. Chair. Mr. Chair, I want to begin today by offering some general remarks on how the Cabinet is engaging this Assembly in developing its responses, how the government is engaging the review process, the Joint Review Project report itself, the report itself, the content of the government’s public statements to date on the Joint Review Project and my general concerns.

While this Cabinet has heard my process concerns in a number of statements, questions and as reported in the media, I want to restate my basic thoughts on the role of the Assembly in developing the government response.

This is a consensus government and the Cabinet is not the government. Cabinet only has power with the approval of the Assembly. This Cabinet has put forward legalistic arguments saying that to consult with the Assembly on the specific recommendations would recreate an apprehension of bias that would jeopardize the review process. I have never agreed with this argument and I would like to make an observation in a little bit about that.

There may be Ministers responsible for filing this government’s response, but these Ministers cannot speak without the authority of this Assembly. Our agreed conventions for the business of this Assembly demand that all Members be consulted on major announcements and decisions because this is a consensus government and the government’s failure, Cabinet’s failure to do this, is a violation of the basic principles we’ve established for consensus government.

As a result, Members have not had detailed discussion on the Joint Review Panel report and its recommendations and have not been supplied with regular information on the Cabinet’s positions and actions. For example, this government made a major public presentation, one that I tabled earlier today in the House, of its position at the April hearings of the National Energy Board in Inuvik. Copies of that presentation have never been supplied to Members who must go to the NEB public registry if they are to know what the government has said. Even while public review, public review, open and public review was ongoing, with the opportunity for public input this spring, Cabinet did not seek input from Members on specific recommendations, even on a confidential basis. I would like to note that this debate would not be taking place in this Assembly today if the executive summary of the Joint Review Panel report had not been tabled by this side of the House for discussion in Committee of the Whole.

I repeat from a perspective of honouring the principles of consensus government, this entire process has been unacceptable and underscores the requirement for the government to anticipate this sort of situation and deal with such injustices proactively in the future; think ahead and prevent it. We’re different. And that makes it, unfortunately, an obligation for us to look after ourselves when these processes are coming down the pipe, so to speak.

While the government is refusing to talk to Members on its position, it’s proclaiming its simplistic bias extolling the virtues of the project to the world. I tabled today a copy of the ITI department’s advertisement in the May -- this month -- 2010 edition of Up Here Business magazine entitled Mackenzie Gas Project, A Secure Energy Source.

This advertisement says that this government is actively working to ensure that Northerners are fully informed, and invites the public to contact the GNWT to “answer all your pipeline related questions and have your input.” Obviously, today the public is welcome to ask questions and expect answers, but clearly not the MLAs, representatives of the people who are being denied their rights. I have to ask with advertisements like this, is there a basis for apprehensious of bias concerns being raised by the public, Mr. Chair?

Regarding the Joint Review Project itself, the project report, I want to re-emphasize its one most important conclusion. The Joint Review Panel in filing its 176 thoughtful and comprehensive recommendations placed particular stress on its position that the project should only go ahead if all 176 recommendations are met, meaning that unless all 176 recommendations are met, the project should not proceed. We’ve now seen the federal and GNWT interim response to the Joint Review Panel report in which government says it will accept only 10, less than 10 percent of the 115 recommendations aimed at government. I’ve seen the government’s reasoning for rejecting recommendations and that was reflected in the Inuvik proceedings. I am not optimistic that we are strongly seeking to support the panel’s attempts to make this project go ahead on the basis of a truly sustainable development.

Regarding the statements made by this government thus far, there are deep concerns. The JRP was convened to review a proposal for the development and ultimate shipment of .83 to 1.2 billion cubic feet of gas per day to southern markets. That was the extent of the review. Environmental and socio-economic review processes consider applications for finite, limited activities. This is the basis of the confidence placed in review processes, especially under land claims settlements, because a limited review is not a blank cheque. That is especially crucial in the case of the Mackenzie Gas Project proposal.

As Mr. C.W. Sanderson making a presentation of the Government of the Northwest Territories at the April 20th and 21st hearings to the National Energy Board in Inuvik said, “The project is basin opening and will make use of an important corridor in a fragile eco-system.” And later, “The basin opening characteristics of the pipeline are both manifest on the record before you and of extreme importance on the attitude that the GNWT takes to the pipeline.”

Unfortunately, the attitude and legal arguments presented by the GNWT to the NEB aim to violate the basic trust that this would be a limited review of a limited proposal. The terms of reference of the JRP review say that to go beyond 1.2 billion cubic feet would, “require the development of further gas fields,” and that “no specific developments for this purpose have been proposed.” We don’t know. We know there are three gas fields that will provide up to 1.2 billion cubic feet of gas. Other developments would provide more, but we don’t know where, we don’t know what the impacts would be and so on.

The GNWT’s presentation in Inuvik went to great lengths to assert that with the approval of this limited project, future further development of gas sources should be permitted beyond the 1.2 billion or even 1.9 billion cubic feet a day. GNWT’s presentation even suggested this pipeline should be constructed to accommodate that future unevaluated expansion. This is a radical statement of this government’s willingness to abrogate its future duties of oversight; a statement made without reference to the will of this Assembly and, therefore, completely unacceptable.

The Mackenzie Valley Resource Management Act, Mackenzie Valley Environmental Impact Review Board and constitutionally protected land claims agreements were put in place to ensure, first, that Northerners have their say and, second, to ensure that sustainable development through integrated resource management is assured.

The Mackenzie Valley Resource Management Act provides options to control the pace scale of development. The Joint Review Panel called on governments to meet these responsibilities through their recommendations. All of us suffer when governments refuse to acknowledge their responsibilities in the face of clear requirements to deal with cumulative effects. Even worse, the GNWT’s submission to the NEB went to great lengths in lecturing the board not to include any conditions incorporating recommendations of the JRP which might place conditions on later development; a responsible attempt to deal with the mandate of cumulative effects that the JRP had in place.

GNWT apparently believes that the wisdom obtained in a five-year, $20 million review should not result in limiting principles for the consideration of future development proposals, something provided for in the MVRMA. All of this without a word of counsel from the Members of this Legislative Assembly and, again, all without these Assembly Members even being told what our lawyers will say in this public process or after the fact what our lawyers said.

Taken from another point of view, the many recommendations of the JRP report dealing with the social and environmental impacts of the proposal are a report card on how well we are dealing with these issues now. This includes everything from employment training to alcohol and drug treatment, women’s shelters, a huge social list. Not having accepted a single recommendation in this social category of socio-economic concerns, not having accepted a single recommendation, we get a failing grade on our report card.

The Chair

The Chair Glen Abernethy

Your time is up. I am going to go to the other committee members to see if they have general comments. If none do, we can go back to you. General comments. Mr. Bromley.

Bob Bromley

Bob Bromley Weledeh

Thank you, Mr. Chair. The social and environmental measures outlined in the report, even with the modifications government propose, will cost this government, our government, us, huge sums. I have seen no estimate of these sums and I will be asking Cabinet to report on the work underway to assess the total cost of the huge new responsibilities and demands this project would create. I should say I will re-ask. I’ve asked before and gotten no response.

Of course, there is the option that Cabinet could simply say that it cannot agree with the recommendations because it would cost too much. But if that’s going to happen, what happens to the argument that this project will contribute to the sustainable economic and social well-being of the Territory?

If the wisdom of the JRP is that huge social and environmental shockwaves will result, that will require huge new expenditures to mitigate, how could the government refuse to insist upon these measures and still claim that the project provides net sustainable benefits? And if we do agree with the recommendations, how are we going to pay to meet them? Discussion should already by underway with the federal Minister of Finance, which I’ve also asked before, to identify these resources and get the new funding in place.

However, I am very pleased to see the Joint Review Panel recommendation 15-11, which says that even if a revenue sharing agreement is not in place, “the Government of Canada set aside 50 percent of the non-renewable resource royalty revenues it receives from the Mackenzie Gas Project to be held in trust for the Government of the Northwest Territories and aboriginal authorities.” This Joint Review Panel report could be the first page of our eventual devolution of responsibilities from the federal government. Resource royalty sharing arrangements recommended by the panel in the report are in line with this Assembly’s intent to establish a heritage fund and provide a mechanism to fill it. This recommendation, 15-11, must be vigorously supported.

The final general thing I’d like to point out, from my reading of the Joint Review Panel report and the proponents’ responses, is that it has loopholes of timing and implementation that are unacceptable. In many instances, going into action or even preparing to go into action to mitigate impacts is dependent upon when the decision is made to proceed. In many cases, if we wait for the project to proceed, this will be too little, too late. Once this project proceeds, if it proceeds, we will have to be well along in our preparations. Pegging our preparations on the whim of the developer is not good enough.

So, Mr. Chair, in summary: the Joint Review Panel was saddled with a difficult undertaking. It was created to jointly provide for the functions of the Mackenzie Valley Resource Management Act, Inuvialuit Game Council provisions, Mackenzie Valley Environmental Impact Review Board, and other processes and land claims. While recognizing the provisions for industry and Northerners’ input, we must have the ability to control the pace and scale of development to ensure the sustainability that the act provides for.

The Joint Review Panel gave it their best shot and in my mind they did a good job. They concluded it could go ahead -- exciting news -- but with essential conditions. Without meeting these conditions they concluded the project should not go forward because it could not be done in a way that is economically, socially or environmentally sustainable.

This government seeks devolution of responsibility and resource revenue sharing from the federal government. Well, Mr. Chair, here is a chance to demonstrate our worthiness to all governments, federal, aboriginal and municipal. Mr. Chair, let’s take the high road and have this government meet the quality of work provided by the JRP. Let’s fully endorse the conditions that must be met to make this truly sustainable development with the many benefits that we want for our people and with the minimal impacts we expect for our land.

That concludes my general remarks at this time, Mr. Chair. Thank you.

The Chair

The Chair Glen Abernethy

Thank you, Mr. Bromley. General comments. Mr. Krutko.

David Krutko

David Krutko Mackenzie Delta

Thank you, Mr. Chair. Myself, I’d like to also speak in regard to the Joint Review Panel’s recommendations and, more importantly, what we heard as the MLAs and, more importantly, what we heard from our communities, our constituents and our municipalities to ensure that they do have their voices heard. And I believe their voices were heard during the Joint Review Panel consultation. More importantly, for ourselves, this government, to stick up to the fundamental principle of good governance to ensure that we listen to our constituency, but, more importantly, follow up with the wishes of our constituents when it comes to ensuring that we do have safe, secure and stable communities and that we do benefit from major developments that happen in our homeland.

Mr. Chair, I think it’s important to realize that the recommendations in regard to the Joint Review Panel heard the communities in regard to their concerns and issues dealing with alcohol and drug abuse, the problems associated with the location of camps, of what’s going to happen in regard to the community infrastructure, in regard to disposal of hazardous waste, the use of gravel sources so that communities will be able to have their own gravel sources going forward and that they don’t exploit the communities and leave them with the costs associated with having to pay for a lot of the public infrastructure that we, as taxpayers and as community residents, have to ensure that we also have the capacity to carry on after these major developments take place.

I think, also, it’s very important to realize that the resources of the Northwest Territories are the resources of the people of the Northwest Territories. I think for far too long we have allowed the federal government and industry to dictate what happens to our resources. An illustration of that is the amount of federal infrastructure dollars or federal taxpayer dollars that was expended back in the ‘70s and ‘80s on the famous program called PIP, in which 90 percent of capital infrastructure dollars were paid for by the federal government and which a lot of significant discoveries were made using taxpayers’ dollars, but yet they remained sitting in the ground. I think, as Northerners, there has to be a statement that you either use it or lose it. I think, what we’ve seen in regard to other jurisdictions in Canada, regardless if it’s Newfoundland or Alaska, that they have basically made it clear to industry that you develop the resources in a timely manner and you ensure that the benefits flow to the residents of those areas, regardless if it’s Newfoundland or Alaska. I think, ourselves, as Northerners, don’t expect anything less.

I think we also have to realize the importance of sustainable public infrastructure, regardless if it’s pipeline, transmission line, that it has to ensure that the benefits flow to Northerners, regardless if it’s dealing with the gas, dealing with power transmission. That we have to benefit one way or the other, regardless if it’s we’re hooking the gas into our communities to gasify communities to bring down the cost of living, or ensuring ways that industry has to use a more feasible means of energy by way of green energy and use the natural resources we have by way of hydro or even by converting in regard to a more green means of public infrastructure such as pipelines.

Again, I think it’s important that the biggest thing we heard from our communities prior to the reviews was the fair factor, the social and economic impacts that development leaves by way of alcoholism, drug abuse, homelessness, and the effects it has on the social fabric of our communities. We have to ensure that we have the capacity, we have the resources, and we have the infrastructure in place to take care of our residents when they need those resources, regardless if it’s alcohol and treatment programs, regardless if it’s technical programs such as technical trades, and ensuring that we do have the infrastructure and the resources to carry out those social responsibilities and not only leave it up to government but also ensure that we work along with industry to find these preventative measures to that we can ensure the well-being of the people of the Northwest Territories and also that we do have developments that are win-win for everyone.

Mr. Chair, I think it’s also important that we do realize that we have to have a voice for the people that put us here. I think it’s important that we do have to ensure that whatever comes forward in regard to the NEB, after they’ve had an opportunity to review these recommendations, we take a close look at exactly what defines the NEB in regards to these recommendations but, more importantly, how are they going to implement these recommendations, especially the ones that have a direct affect on the residents of the Northwest Territories, communities in the Northwest Territories and people of the Northwest Territories so that we do win from this one of the largest projects in Northern Canada.

I think it is also important to realize that we do have to tie other types of public infrastructure such as the Mackenzie Highway into this type of project regardless if there is an alternative area of doing it, if we are able to bring down the cost of the pipeline by building our highways, regardless if it is the road from Wrigley to Tuk or dealing with sections so that we can connect communities to the different facilities regardless if it is dealing with the facilities in regards to the refining system or compressor stations and have that infrastructure built permanently and not look at the cheapest way of doing it and at the end of the day, we have no public infrastructure built because of the way that we allow a system to be built with no win-win situation for our communities.

I think that the Mackenzie Highway has the potential of being the win-win for everybody. I think that we do have to continue to pressure the federal government and industry to make them realize the importance of such a piece of public infrastructure in regards to this particular project and work with the aboriginal groups regardless if it is the Mackenzie Aboriginal Corporation or community groups, regardless if it is the Deh Cho, the Sahtu, the Inuvialuit and the Gwich’in.

In closing, Mr. Chairman, I think it is also important that we do file our own report as the government and the Legislative Assembly of the Northwest Territories to ensure that we do oversee this project as any government should and as any Legislature should, to ensure that we at the end of the day are the benefactors of this arrangement and again, more importantly, the section that my colleague quoted in regards to section 50 and 11 which talks about resource revenues and ensuring that we do have some means of benefitting from this project in the interim until we receive resource revenue sharing or have some means of benefitting from resource development and formulating some sort of trust regardless if it is a heritage trust or having some resources put aside for a rainy day so once this project has come and gone 30 years later we are not sitting with a pipe in the ground which basically has served its purpose and it is now going to diminish its willingness to continue to benefit not only industry but people of the Northwest Territories. So, with that, Mr. Chairman, those are my comments. Thank you.

The Chair

The Chair Glen Abernethy

Thank you, Mr. Krutko. Next on my list is Mr. Jacobson.

Jackie Jacobson

Jackie Jacobson Nunakput

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. This is in regards to the JRP report. When I was the past mayor of Tuktoyaktuk, I was in full support of the pipeline on a go-forward basis. I am still a big proponent of the push that I would like to see this project go.

Mr. Chairman, people in the Beaufort-Delta right now need jobs. People are not working. There is nothing going on. You have almost highlight companies that are almost going under right now due to lack of work and the lack of the federal government. I wish they would put more to the all-weather road between Tuk and Inuvik to keep businesses both in Inuvik and Tuktoyaktuk working for the next couple of years prior to getting this pipeline inserted.

The biggest thing I think what we should be pushing through, as Mr. Krutko said earlier, that use it or lose it. Under the Inuvialuit, you have a certain amount of time to go drilling and then penalties will come into play. Ultimately, they will be taken or you lose your permitting and you pay a big fine. Something like that is a sort of thing that we should work towards and to try to make sure everybody is on the same page.

At the end of the day, we need this pipeline. The people in the Beaufort-Delta need the jobs. Disposal, like Mr. Krutko, the camps, people in camps catering, you know, transportation, everything is going to be going good for at least three to five years in regard to that, then we work with our neighbours to the west, Alaska, in regard to their pipeline and working with them to work on both sides of the border. You know, that was brought up and hopefully we can see that through with the Minister.

Gravel sources, yup, we have a lot of gravel in our riding, not only in Nunakput but right down the Delta. The studies have been done. The jobs, again, use of the classifications where possible and, like I said earlier, the Tuk/Inuvik highway.

Mr. Chair, people have to work. Again, like I said earlier in my Member’s statement, we know we have nothing going on. We have a building that’s being built in Inuvik, the school, and I’m pretty sure they have enough workers already, but you have the people that work in the oil and gas industry for the last 20 or 30 years and then Shell coming back and working out on the drill rig, the Mallik, probably about three years ago that stalled, but it was good to see. People don’t realize 30 years ago we had six or seven drill rigs working off the shores of Tuk and now the big thing with the secondary well, which I am in favour of, and it’s going to cost a little bit more for companies to come up and work, but so be it.

At the end of the day, I wish the government, pipeline and the offshore will come hand in hand and I wish our territorial government would tell the NEB yes, we want this project to go. We have graduates coming out of high school now that basically have nowhere to turn, not unless the post-secondary education, which is good, but after that’s done, you know, all the government jobs are all taken up in the communities if they want to go home and work. There are very limited good paying jobs. So we have to push the federal government in regard to this. It only took the JRP five years and hopefully, like I said the other day, we keep them on a timeline and on the push to go forward to make this project happen. That’s all I have to say. Thank you.

The Chair

The Chair Glen Abernethy

Thank you, Mr. Jacobson. General comments. Mr. Krutko.

David Krutko

David Krutko Mackenzie Delta

I move a motion to report progress.

---Carried

The Chair

The Chair Glen Abernethy

I will now rise and report progress. Thank you, committee.

Report of Committee of the Whole
Report of Committee of the Whole

The Speaker

The Speaker Paul Delorey

Can I have the report of Committee of the Whole, please, Mr. Abernethy?

Report of Committee of the Whole
Report of Committee of the Whole

Glen Abernethy

Glen Abernethy Great Slave

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, your committee has been considering Tabled Document 42-16(5), Supplementary Estimates No. 1, 2010-2011 (Operations Expenditures); Tabled Document 43-16(5), Supplementary Estimates No. 3, 2010-2011 (Infrastructure Expenditures); and Tabled Document 4-16(5), Executive Summary of the JRP Report on the Mackenzie Gas Project, and would like to report progress with two committee motions being adopted and that consideration of Tabled Document 42-16(5) and Tabled Document 43-16(5) is concluded and the House concurs in those estimates and that an appropriation bill to be based thereon be introduced without delay. Mr. Speaker, I move that the report of Committee of the Whole be concurred with.

Report of Committee of the Whole
Report of Committee of the Whole

The Speaker

The Speaker Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Abernethy. A motion is on the floor. Do we have a seconder for that? The honourable Member for Weledeh, Mr. Bromley.

---Carried

Speaker’s Ruling
Report of Committee of the Whole

The Speaker

The Speaker Paul Delorey

Colleagues, before I proceed to third reading of bills, I want to remind Members of your rules regarding written questions. According to Rule 39(1), a question which would be likely to require a detailed or complex answer or which would not reasonably assumed to be within the present knowledge of a Minister may be posed as a written question. Written Question 10-16(5) asked by Mr. Yakeleya today does not meet the definition of a written question and is, therefore, ruled out of order and struck from the record.

Item 22, third reading of bills. The honourable Minister of Health and Social Services, Ms. Lee.

Sandy Lee

Sandy Lee Minister of Health and Social Services

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I move, seconded by the honourable Member for Deh Cho, that Bill 1, An Act to Amend the Veterinary Profession Act, be read for the third time. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

The Speaker

The Speaker Paul Delorey

Bill 1, An Act to Amend the Veterinary Profession Act, has had third reading.

---Carried

The honourable Minister of Health and Social Services, Ms. Lee.

Sandy Lee

Sandy Lee Minister of Health and Social Services

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I move, seconded by the honourable Member for Inuvik Boot Lake, that Bill 2, An Act to Amend the Dental Auxiliaries Act, be read for the third time.

The Speaker

The Speaker Paul Delorey

Bill 2, An Act to Amend the Dental Auxiliaries Act, has been read for the third time.

---Carried

Mr. Clerk, orders of the day.

Orders of the Day
Orders of the Day

Clerk Of The House (Mr. Mercer)

Orders of the day for Tuesday, May 18, 2010, at 1:30 p.m.:

1. Prayer

2. Ministers’ Statements

3. Members’ Statements

4. Returns to Oral Questions

5. Recognition of Visitors in the Gallery

6. Acknowledgements

7. Oral Questions

8. Written Questions

9. Returns to Written Questions

10. Replies to Opening Address

11. Petitions

12. Reports of Standing and Special Committees

13. Reports of Committees on the Review of Bills

14. Tabling of Documents

15. Notices of Motion

16. Notices of Motion for First Reading of Bills

17. Motions

18. First Reading of Bills

19. Second Reading of Bills

• Bill 8, Social Work Profession Act

20. Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

• Tabled Document 4-16(5), Executive Summary of the Report of the Joint Review Panel for the Mackenzie Gas Project

• Tabled Document 30-16(5), 2010 Review of Members’ Compensation and Benefits

• Tabled Document 38-16(5), Supplementary Health Benefits - What We Heard

• Bill 7, An Act to Amend the Elections and Plebiscites Act

21. Report of Committee of the Whole

22. Third Reading of Bills

• Bill 3, Miscellaneous Statute Law Amendment Act, 2010

23. Orders of the Day

Orders of the Day
Orders of the Day

The Speaker

The Speaker Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Clerk. Accordingly, this House stands adjourned until Tuesday, May 18, 2010, at 1:30 p.m.

---ADJOURNMENT

The House adjourned at 5:34 p.m.