This is page numbers 4035 – 4074 of the Hansard for the 17th Assembly, 5th Session. The original version can be accessed on the Legislative Assembly's website or by contacting the Legislative Assembly Library. The word of the day was communities.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Daryl Dolynny

Thank you, Minister Lafferty. Ms. Martin, Mr. Heide and Ms. Eggenhofer, welcome back. Committee, we last left off on activity summary 10-17. A number of Members have gone through what I call their first rounds of questioning. Next on my list on this activity page, activity summary, Education, Culture and Employment, operations expenditure summary, I have Mr. Moses, followed by Mr. Blake. Mr. Moses.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Alfred Moses

Alfred Moses Inuvik Boot Lake

Thank you, Mr. Chair. I’m trying to get back into my frame of mind here. I know last night I was really eager to get into questions and comments, but since we left general comments yesterday I just want to open up with a couple of really quick remarks. With this department here, I know the Social Programs committee has had numerous dialogues on so many different topics that it’s really great to see where we are. I feel that all committee and Members really need to do is support and monitor and continue to keep the department accountable with all the work that has been going forward.

In the opening comments yesterday, the Minister did mention that this budget represents over a year of hard work, and committee was in the same room, so we’ve done a lot of hard work. I always recognize the hard work of committee and staff, but I just want to say I acknowledge and appreciate the hard work that the department and your staff has done over the past year, but ever since committee has really gotten into the details of these budgets.

With that said, the work on education renewal, early childhood development, the collaborative work with mental health and addictions and anti-poverty, what wasn’t said in the opening comments yesterday was the Aboriginal student achievements and updates on where we can move on this. Not a big deal, but I know we’re working on bigger things.

The first area I’m going to go on to is early childhood development. There were a lot of good questions discussed yesterday. We didn’t get into wraparound services. We tried passing a motion on the daycares, and there was mention of junior kindergarten and some concerns with that. What we’ve been hearing is that it is a three-year process

and our first target is getting into the small communities that really need that.

Maybe I can just make some references to this action plan here. You have in here… I had all these stats yesterday. I can’t find them. But you have them here, numerous areas of action. I know the action plan is between the Department of Health and Social Services and Education, Culture and Employment. Are these areas of action in priority from one to the very last one is 22? Are they areas of action and you’re going to go one and continue down the line, or are you just taking actions where and when you can address them? Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Daryl Dolynny

Thank you, Mr. Moses. Minister Lafferty.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Jackson Lafferty

Jackson Lafferty Monfwi

Mahsi, Mr. Chair. We’ve been working closely with Health and Social Services on this. It’s not necessarily itemized by priority. We have to tackle each and every one of the recommendations that are brought to our attention. Between the two departments, we’ll be rolling out the programming, the implementation. Number one would be at the top but we might have to deal with, say, number 18, type of deal. We have to deal with those matters at hand. The Member is asking if it’s a priority; it hasn’t really been set as a priority from one to 22, it’s just the way it’s laid out. Mahsi.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Alfred Moses

Alfred Moses Inuvik Boot Lake

I know the collaboration between the departments of Health and Education Culture and Employment, and in the opening remarks it mentions that there is $511,000 for wage top-up and training to increase the program staff for licenced child care centres.

That got me thinking. I did have some discussions with an early childhood development specialist whose husband works up in Inuvik. We got to talking about these new initiatives and early childhood, and she mentioned that we need to have a specialist that can certify all these early childhood workers and currently we don’t have that. I want to ask the Minister, how are we going to certify our early childhood workers moving forward so that they are licenced? Maybe I’ll just ask the Minister that question. How are we going to licence our early childhood daycare providers, whether it’s in a home, a daycare facility, junior kindergarten or any of those areas? Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Jackson Lafferty

Jackson Lafferty Monfwi

Mr. Chair, part of the process will be the regs that will be before us would have to require those individuals to have the qualification. We will do our part, as a department, to provide the necessary training, necessary support mechanism that needs to be in place. Throughout the licenced early childhood programming, we talk about the daycares and junior kindergarten, a mixture. Yesterday, we got into more detail about how we can provide training.

That is information that is available and we will provide that specific training to qualify people in our education system to deal with the children of the Northwest Territories. We are moving forward and we will be putting those mechanisms in place as we start implementation. Mahsi.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Alfred Moses

Alfred Moses Inuvik Boot Lake

So some things I caught there were support mechanisms and specific training. As you heard yesterday, there was a lot of concern with stages of early childhood development. I do support the junior kindergarten programs in the small communities and the way it’s coming out, but we also need the prenatal to five and six, even to there, as a strong initiative.

I want to ask the Minister, in terms of specific training, if he’s familiar with the BC Early Learning Framework where they’ve actually developed child care licensing regulations. They have a child care sector occupational competencies. I wonder if he is familiar with that and if that could be a teaching tool for the department, a tool in terms of how we set forth since this government has really taken the initiative on early childhood development. Perhaps we can use that as a reference to develop these occupational competencies that set out things like knowledge skills, things that the early childhood educators need to demonstrate. I went through it briefly as best as I could and there’s a lot of really good information in there. I would like to ask the Minister and his staff if they are familiar with the BC Early Learning Framework and whether or not they will be developing some type of occupational competencies for the child care sector. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Jackson Lafferty

Jackson Lafferty Monfwi

Most definitely. Those are the areas that we are currently researching with our contacts in BC, not only BC but Alberta. As you know, Dr. Corriveau was in Alberta for a short period. He made all kinds of connections there with educators and administrators. We are taking full advantage of those resources that are available to us, but most specifically in BC, as the Member is alluding to. Those are some of the areas we want to get our hands on and start working on within our department and the Northwest Territories operators. Mahsi.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Alfred Moses

Alfred Moses Inuvik Boot Lake

I think, developing some occupational competencies, when we develop this, is going to be very handy not only for this government but it will set the future for our educators. Yesterday I was really hoping I would be able to get through all my questions and answers in the 10 minutes.

I’m a strong supporter of where the department is going. However, I’ve come to realize that this page alone, education and culture, is 79 percent of the overall ECE budget, so there will definitely be a lot of questions. If you look further, it’s 15 percent of

the overall budget that we’re going to be approving within this government. I’m looking at the time and I’m going to have to be put back on the rotation here.

Sticking with early childhood development, I would like to ask the Minister in commitment number six where they are looking to address the infrastructure challenges in the small communities, under one of the deliverables it mentions, “To ensure infrastructure is adequate for junior kindergarten in schools.” Seeing as we’re going to be going into our first year of junior kindergarten, has this deliverable been addressed already? Has it been identified? Do we know what the needs are and the inventory? What are the needs moving forward, so we can make sure that when we roll out this junior kindergarten we aren’t stuck with challenges where the infrastructure is not there. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Jackson Lafferty

Jackson Lafferty Monfwi

We have already started working very closely with communities, the district education authorities and district education councils to identify the infrastructure needs in the communities. Again, we are working very closely with Health and Social Services and Public Works and Services. So those are some areas we’ve identified based on the numbers that have been produced by the district education authorities and councils. So we’ve been working with those numbers in communities. The information that has been shared with us, we are fully aware of infrastructure in the communities. Again, based on enrollment at the community level, most of the schools can accommodate junior kindergarten as an initial step. There may be some challenges with infrastructure, so we have to work with those guidelines as well. Mahsi.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Daryl Dolynny

Thank you, Mr. Lafferty. Continuing on this activity for first round of questioning, I have Mr. Hawkins.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Robert Hawkins

Robert Hawkins Yellowknife Centre

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I want to focus some of my area of concern around inclusive schooling funding. I’m not sure if anyone else has covered this particular area, but I’m just going to ask a few basic questions before we get into the detail of where we’re going. Although we have the global number of $26.5 million for inclusive schooling funding, maybe if the Minister could break out, not only just for Members but the public, how that money is broken out by school district. So let’s put on the record how many school districts and how that money is spread out across the districts. Thank you.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Daryl Dolynny

Thank you, Mr. Hawkins. Minister Lafferty.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Jackson Lafferty

Jackson Lafferty Monfwi

Mahsi, Mr. Chair. Inclusive schooling, as Members know, is a territory-wide funding allocation to the school boards. I don’t have the detailed breakdown of all the districts, but we cover most of the schools and

the school boards we have to work with. Based on that, there is a breakdown from the school boards to the schools and agencies they work with. It could be complex information that we can share with Members, but I just have the breakdown of the school district, whether it be Beaufort-Delta, Commission scolaire, Dehcho, Sahtu, South Slave, Tlicho, YSC, YK No. 1, Detah and Ndilo, for a combination of $26.670 million. That’s what we have on file currently. Mahsi.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Robert Hawkins

Robert Hawkins Yellowknife Centre

Is it safe to say that that money is broken out evenly? I think there are 10 school boards that are represented there. Is it safe to say that it’s broken out evenly amongst the school boards? Thank you.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Jackson Lafferty

Jackson Lafferty Monfwi

The information I shared is $26.6 million based on the enrollment of the schools. Some school facilities are small, so they would get a smaller portion than the larger centres. It’s all based on enrollment. The contribution is based on that. Mahsi.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Robert Hawkins

Robert Hawkins Yellowknife Centre

So would the Minister be correct by saying that it’s based on a pupil ratio? Is that what he’s saying? It’s calculated down to for every student you have you get $10, so if you have more students, you get more money, less students, you get less. What type of figure do they use for their calculation? Thank you.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Daryl Dolynny

Thank you, Mr. Hawkins. For that response, we’ll go to the deputy minister, Ms. Eggenhofer.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Eggenhofer

Thank you, Mr. Chair. The difficulty with determining the funding levels to each education authority based on need is we’ve learned over the years that the smaller communities do not have the same diagnostic services that the larger centres have in the NWT. So if you were to divide the funding based on need, then you would basically provide a serious advantage to Yellowknife and other larger communities where the diagnosis could be done, whereas in the Beaufort-Delta, for example, in smaller communities they are at a disadvantage because they don’t have access to the same services. So in the meantime, the funding is distributed based on the enrolment, but the inclusive schools review that the Minister spoke of yesterday is looking at a better way to divide the inclusive schooling funding pot to align it perhaps a little closer with need as opposed to just enrolment.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Robert Hawkins

Robert Hawkins Yellowknife Centre

Although, of course, we’re not on page 10-6, I would draw people’s general attention to it, and it cites under inclusive schooling it ensures through guidelines and contributions that all NWT students are entitled to access an educational program in a regular institution setting in their home community. I appreciate the insight Deputy Minister Eggenhofer has offered, and that said, I’m just curious now about the diagnosis portion of it. I didn’t realize that was actually part of

the funding of it, and if it is, can we help to figure out what the funding is and how that’s broken out, because as I understood it, it was about access to educational programming and being able to be in an educational setting, so please. Thank you.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Eggenhofer

Apologies if I didn’t articulate this clearly. Because there is not an equal access to diagnostic services throughout the Northwest Territories, that tool cannot be used to determine the need, because in smaller communities there aren’t the speech pathologists and psychologists and other specialists available that could determine how many kids, for example, in a given school have needs for special assistance. Therefore, right now we are using what could be described as a rather crude instrument to divide out the inclusive schooling funding, but hopefully, we will look at providing a better way to divide the funding with the conclusion of the inclusive schooling review, which we hope to bring to committee in May.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Robert Hawkins

Robert Hawkins Yellowknife Centre

Is it fair to assume that the money is broken out on best guess based on, I’ll say, the experience and situation of these types of schools, that there is need but it hasn’t been technically diagnosed? In other words, we have students we know that are there but they haven’t been formally diagnosed under some type of, we’ll call it, structure or professional basis. Is that a fair observation or understanding of what, in a small form, the deputy minister is trying to say? They’re providing money based on that best assessment?

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Eggenhofer

Yes, I think that’s a fair assessment. We also, obviously, go by the individual education plans and student support plans that school education authorities submit to the department that identify where needs are required for students, and with the introduction of TINET, which is a new program, it will be a lot easier to track these individual learning plans.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Robert Hawkins

Robert Hawkins Yellowknife Centre

My last couple minutes I’m going to use focusing in on assessment and in some manner or form linking it to the particular student as and when necessary. It’s a good refresher here, and I thank MLA Bisaro for reminding me of telehealth mechanisms, tools, and instruments we have in many small communities, maybe not every one. I believe the funding should follow the student once we’ve identified them for what particular need they are so we cater appropriately for them.

Has the Department of Education used these types of tools and instruments such as telehealth in order to help identify this? Because I realize that if you’re in Sachs Harbour, you may not have the ability to send someone out to a speech pathologist to be properly diagnosed, but we could use mechanisms like this so then we know which students through identifying and then we can target the money. I mean, at the end of the day, I want the money to be

targeted at the student who needs it most, not just the district to where we’re just guessing.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Daryl Dolynny

Thank you, Mr. Hawkins. Minister Lafferty.