This is page numbers 4327 – 4378 of the Hansard for the 17th Assembly, 5th Session. The original version can be accessed on the Legislative Assembly's website or by contacting the Legislative Assembly Library. The word of the day was health.

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Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Jane Groenewegen

Thank you, Mr. Fulford. Mr. Bromley.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Bob Bromley

Bob Bromley Weledeh

Thank you, Madam Chair, and thanks to Mr. Fulford. That’s good information to have and I appreciate that. I’ll maybe just postpone any further discussion on that aspect. I believe that’s all I had. Yes, that’s it. Thank you very much.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Jane Groenewegen

Thank you, Mr. Bromley. Other general comments on Bill 11, Petroleum Resources Act? Ms. Bisaro.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Wendy Bisaro

Wendy Bisaro Frame Lake

Thanks, Madam Chair. I just wanted to ask one other question. There are a number of regulations, I gather, under the Canada Petroleum Resources Act. Is my understanding correct that these regulations, Environmental Studies Research Fund regulations, Frontier Lands Petroleum Royalty Regulations, Frontier Lands Registration Regulations, will those be mirrored as the act has been mirrored?

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Jane Groenewegen

Thank you, Ms. Bisaro. Mr. Aitken.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Aitken

Thanks, Madam Chair. The answer is yes, and in fact, those mirror regulations are being finalized now and they will be made before March 31st , so they take effect on April 1st .

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Wendy Bisaro

Wendy Bisaro Frame Lake

Thanks, Mr. Aitken. One last question. I guess it’s a comment, really. I notice that it was in Bill 10, as well, and I’m pretty sure that it’s in some of the other bills, also, but closure and reclamation of developments isn’t really covered, I don’t believe, in probably any of these acts, and it kind of goes to the same issue of financial security that Mr. Bromley was talking about. Do we have in these bills as we mirror them, do we have what the general public would consider as adequate financial security and adequate requirements for closure and remediation plans when a development is finished?

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Jane Groenewegen

Thank you, Ms. Bisaro. Mr. Fulford.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Fulford

Madam Chair, the way that I would respond to that is I can’t speak to what people would view as adequate but there are a number of the bills that address this in various manners. Our mirror Waters Act, for any development that requires a water licence, security will have to be posted with the Minister and the water licence speaks to terms of reclamation. Land use permitting in a similar manner. The standard terms of a lease under the Northwest Territories Lands Act will also speak to a requirement on the lessee to bring the lands back to…basically to reclaim the lands to the state that they were before the lease was issued. There are a number of pieces there that are in the mirror legislation, and of course, in the Mackenzie Valley the Mackenzie Valley Resource Management Act and Regulations continue to apply as well. There are various pieces out there that address the matter of security and reclamation.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Wendy Bisaro

Wendy Bisaro Frame Lake

Thanks to Mr. Fulford for that. I kind of thought that was the case. I think my concern is that the requirement may be there, but as I understand it, the amount of either the financial security or the need to have the closure and the reclamation plans is up to the regulator, and if the regulator makes a determination and determines an amount of money that is not what is required or accepts a remediation plan that’s in its infancy and isn’t updated over the years as the development occurs, we’re going to be left holding the bag when the development ends or it folds in the midst of production and everybody runs away and we’re left cleaning things up.

I think my question goes more to what there is either within the regulations or within the act that we can use, one, to make sure that the regulator sets appropriate amounts of financial security and demands appropriate closure and reclamation plans, and secondly, what do we have that’s going to enforce whatever it is that’s decided on for a development?

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Fulford

If we’re speaking specifically to the ability of the oil and gas regulator to establish security, that’s done under the Oil and Gas Operations Act, and there are sections of that act that govern that process. Keeping in mind that the oil and gas regulator is acting as a regulator and not as a Minister outside of the ISR, he will be bound by principles of administrative fairness, and in other cases specifically, the act itself sets out that the things that the Minister needs to do in terms of process and openness in making these decisions. Even absent those requirements, common law principles of natural justice will ensure that the regulator makes his or her decisions in a way that takes into account all of the affected parties.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Wendy Bisaro

Wendy Bisaro Frame Lake

Great explanation, but it doesn’t give me much comfort. I didn’t really hear that there are any enforcement capabilities, and it’s something that concerns me, particularly in a number of areas as devolution comes forward. We’ve got a lot of operating mines, for instance, which, as we’ve heard over the last couple of weeks, don’t have adequate security for their closure plans, and this sounds to me like it’s similar. We’re going to have a regulator who makes a decision, but will the regulator be using somebody to determine that the amount of money that’s declared is accurate and is appropriate, and if we don’t get the money from the company, who’s going to make sure that we get it?

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Fulford

Again, I’d just point out that this is a matter dealt with in the Oil and Gas Operations Act, and I draw the Member’s attention to Section 64 where it requires an applicant for an authorization to furnish security in a form satisfactory to the regulator and maintain that security for the term of the authorization. There is a legislated requirement to maintain that security if you want to have an authorization.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Wendy Bisaro

Wendy Bisaro Frame Lake

That’s good. Thanks.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Jane Groenewegen

You’re good? Okay. General comments.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Some Hon. Members

Detail.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Jane Groenewegen

Detail. Bill 11, Petroleum Resources Act. We will go through the clauses in groups of 10 again. Is committee agreed?

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Jane Groenewegen

Thank you. Mr. Miltenberger.

Committee Motion 40-17(5): Amendment To Clause 1 Of Bill 11, Carried
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

March 10th, 2014

Michael Miltenberger

Michael Miltenberger Thebacha

Thank you, Madam Chair. I would like to make a motion. I move that the definition “holder” or “interest holder” in the English version of clause 1 of Bill 11 be amended by striking out “under Part;” and substituting “under Part 8;”. Thank you.

Committee Motion 40-17(5): Amendment To Clause 1 Of Bill 11, Carried
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Jane Groenewegen

Thank you, Mr. Miltenberger. The motion is in order. Mr. Miltenberger.

Committee Motion 40-17(5): Amendment To Clause 1 Of Bill 11, Carried
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Michael Miltenberger

Michael Miltenberger Thebacha

[Microphone turned off] …correct a typographical error in the definition “holder” or “interest holder” as the number of the part referred to had been omitted.

Committee Motion 40-17(5): Amendment To Clause 1 Of Bill 11, Carried
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Jane Groenewegen

Thank you, Mr. Miltenberger. To the motion.

Committee Motion 40-17(5): Amendment To Clause 1 Of Bill 11, Carried
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Some Hon. Members

Question.

Committee Motion 40-17(5): Amendment To Clause 1 Of Bill 11, Carried
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Jane Groenewegen

Question is being called. The motion is carried.

---Carried

Clause 1, as amended.