This is page numbers 4621 - 4676 of the Hansard for the 18th Assembly, 3rd Session. The original version can be accessed on the Legislative Assembly's website or by contacting the Legislative Assembly Library. The word of the day was communities.

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Cory Vanthuyne

Cory Vanthuyne Yellowknife North

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I appreciate the previous speakers on this particular motion. Similar to my colleague from Frame Lake, I share similar concerns.

It, to me, seems to be a little bit unbecoming of a government that is developing an Ombud's statutory office to begin with, because we recognize that there is a need, and yet, we are going to put ourselves in a position where we will limit and/or not even consider those needs until starting now. We are presenting a compromise that is going to go back a couple of years, but that is hardly going to make up for those whom may or will require the services of this office.

Let's be clear: the Ombud will have the discretion to decide on those cases or on those submissions that they feel fall within their abilities and their realm and their capacity to hear.

It is not to say that, if we put no limit on it, even if there was a whole lineup at the door of a bunch of people who had a bunch of cases that needed to be heard by the Ombud, that the Ombud would, in fact, listen to all of them. There would be some discretion on that. To develop an Ombud's office and then just start today with issues that might come forward as of right now, it is not acceptable.

I appreciate that we are trying to make a compromise here and there will be some in favour, but unfortunately, Mr. Chair, I won't find myself in favour of the motion. Thank you.

The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you. To the motion. Mr. Thompson.

Shane Thompson

Shane Thompson Nahendeh

Thank you, Mr. Chair. I guess my concern is: what is reasonable? You know, 10 percent, 5 percent, that is reasonable. Again, we are talking about people. They should have the right. I don't believe picking a number out of the air, January 1, 2016, is acceptable. We are talking about the residents of the Northwest Territories. Once this bill has passed, there shouldn't be a deadline to it. I will not be supporting this recommendation. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

To the motion. Minister Abernethy.

Glen Abernethy

Glen Abernethy Great Slave

Thank you, Mr. Chair. Mr. Chair, may I ask the law clerk a question?

The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Yes, you may.

Glen Abernethy

Glen Abernethy Great Slave

Thank you, Mr. Chair. Mr. Chair, just for clarity and for the record, the clause we are talking about, what has occurred in other jurisdictions when they have moved forward with Ombud or Ombud-related legislation, just for the record?

The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you. The Law Clerk may not have that information, but I will pass it on to the clerk. Mr. Clerk.

Law Clerk Of The House Mr. Rutland

Thank you, Mr. Chair. It is mixed in different jurisdictions. For example, in the province of British Columbia, there is a permissive clause that says that the Ombud may review any conduct prior to the commencement of this act. For example, in the Yukon, there is a similar clause to what is in the bill as drafted, which prohibits review of any conduct before the act. Then there are some that are just silent on the issue.

The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you. Minister Abernethy.

Glen Abernethy

Glen Abernethy Great Slave

With respect to the ones that are silent, what does that mean as far as individuals who wish to possibly pursue an administrative question prior to commencement or go-live date of the legislation? What does it mean for those silent jurisdictions? Do we know?

The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you. Mr. Clerk.

Law Clerk Of The House Mr. Rutland

Thank you, Mr. Chair. It would really be a matter of interpretation in each jurisdiction. You would have to look at what the Interpretation Act in each jurisdiction says in terms of whether there is any general prohibitions or restrictions on when legislation comes into force.

Generally, when you are looking at placing a temporal jurisdiction and, for example, restriction saying you can't go back before a certain date, it is because it would be unfair to subject someone to a law that was not necessarily in effect at the time. For example, if you look at criminal law, it is the law that applied at the time because there are consequences to the action.

In something like this where there is not a punitive aspect to it, it could just be interpreted that if this was silent on temporal jurisdiction, there would be no restriction. Or someone may interpret it as, if it is silent, it is from the commencement date. It depends on how you interpret the Ombud's powers because the Ombud's powers only come into effect on the commencement of the act.

Everything they are doing is post the commencement of the act, so it is within their jurisdiction. The question would be whether someone would take issue with the fact of whether or not they could go beforehand.

The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you. Minister Abernethy.

Glen Abernethy

Glen Abernethy Great Slave

Just a final question. I am just trying to get some clarity on this for myself and for the record. Is the clerk aware of any precedent from jurisdictions where it was silent on how it was ultimately interpreted?

The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you. Mr. Clerk.

Law Clerk Of The House Mr. Rutland

No, I am not.

The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you. Anything further from Minister Abernethy. There is nothing further from Minister Abernethy. To the motion.

Some Hon. Members

Question.

The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Question has been called. All those in favour? All those opposed? The motion is carried.

---Carried

---Clauses 17 through 36 inclusive approved

The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Clause 37. Mr. Testart.

Committee Motion 88-13(3): Bill 20: Ombud Act - Amended in subclause 37(1), Carried
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 4674

Kieron Testart

Kieron Testart Kam Lake

Merci, Monsieur le president. [English translation not provided]

Committee Motion 88-13(3): Bill 20: Ombud Act - Amended in subclause 37(1), Carried
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 4674

The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you, Mr. Testart. There is a motion on the floor. The motion is in order. To the motion.

Committee Motion 88-13(3): Bill 20: Ombud Act - Amended in subclause 37(1), Carried
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 4674

Some Hon. Members

Question.

Committee Motion 88-13(3): Bill 20: Ombud Act - Amended in subclause 37(1), Carried
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 4674

The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Question has been called. All those in favour? All those opposed? The motion is carried.

---Carried

Thank you. To clause 37 as amended.