This is page numbers 6187 - 6288 of the Hansard for the 18th Assembly, 3rd Session. The original version can be accessed on the Legislative Assembly's website or by contacting the Legislative Assembly Library. The word of the day was public.

Topics

The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you, Mr. McNeely. We are making history here, and I want to take a moment to thank all the Pages who have been with us this past couple of weeks while we've been making history. Whoever said history was boring? Thank you guys all very much for the hard work that you've been doing for us.

---Applause

Seeing nothing further, I guess we can move to -- oh, Mr. O'Reilly.

Kevin O'Reilly

Kevin O'Reilly Frame Lake

Thanks, Mr. Chair. I did want to take time to respond to a few things that the Minister mentioned in his opening remarks, and then I'd like to ask a couple of lines of questioning, if I can.

I know that we held a lengthy clause-by-clause review the other night. There were a lot of intentions offered by the Minister on some of the language in the bill, but the language itself doesn't really reflect a number of the things that I think the Minister has said, even in his opening remarks here. I'll just pick up on a few of these.

The Minister is right that there was extensive research conducted by the department. It took a long time to get that information out of the department to the committee; in fact, it was not a good working relationship. I had to apply under Access to Information and Protection of Privacy to get some of that information out of the department. I think the relationship did improve over time, but I just continue to contrast that with what happened on the social envelope side of the legislation that I witnessed and saw, and I think it can and should have been a much more collaborative process. Committee tried to work, and we did achieve some compromises.

The Minister talked about how there is going to be some public benefit provided in the bill, and I only wish that the process and the ideas were as clear as they are on the Indigenous government side, in terms of benefit agreements. I do support those, and the Minister knows well my views on those, and I do support provisions from section 52 on, but the public benefits are extremely vague and weak, and it's not why I came to this Legislative Assembly. It's now why, I think, we're all here, to look at the public interest. So I have some ideas to suggest on the public benefits side, as well.

The Minister mentioned that the zones can be created at the request of Indigenous governments. The Minister also has the ability to establish zones on his or her own initiative. I have yet to see anything in writing where Indigenous governments, maybe I missed it, have specifically requested zones. Certainly, the industry submissions I saw, they wanted some clarification of what zones were about and that the prospecting permit process would continue, but I didn't see any specific requests for zones, either.

I'd like to turn, though, to three areas that I'd like to ask some questions about. We've heard some discussion of the royalty review, or some sort of fiscal regime review, that the department seems to have already started, so can someone please outline very clearly what the scope and substance of that review is? Thank you, Mr. Chair.

The Chair

The Chair Daniel McNeely

Thank you, Mr. O'Reilly. Next, we have Mr. Simpson. Sorry about that; I'm slipping, trying to encourage history. Minister, do you have a reply to Mr. O'Reilly?

Wally Schumann

Wally Schumann Hay River South

Thank you, Mr. Chair. Can I get Mr. O'Reilly to repeat the exact part of the question? Not his opening comments, but the question?

The Chair

The Chair Daniel McNeely

Thank you, Minister Schumann. Mr. O'Reilly.

Kevin O'Reilly

Kevin O'Reilly Frame Lake

Thanks, Mr. Chair. Yes, the clock is ticking. Can the Minister clearly outline what the scope and substance of the fiscal regime is that his department seems to have already started? Thank you.

The Chair

The Chair Daniel McNeely

Thank you, Mr. O'Reilly. Minister Schumann.

Wally Schumann

Wally Schumann Hay River South

Thank you, Mr. Chair. We have said that we will support a review of the NWT's Resource Royalty Framework and a review of the Northwest Territories Resource Royalty Framework will need to consider the Northwest Territories' total fiscal context, as well as our general operating environment. ITI, in partnership with the Department of Finance, has started the benchmarking work for such a review. There will be no public consultation at this stage in the process, as it is currently in a third-party research contract to benchmark the Northwest Territories against other jurisdictions, both nationally and internationally, and we anticipate and support this being a priority of the 19th Legislative Assembly. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

The Chair

The Chair Daniel McNeely

Thank you, Minister Schumann. Mr. O'Reilly.

Kevin O'Reilly

Kevin O'Reilly Frame Lake

Thank you, Mr. Chair. While the Minister was providing lots of reassurance around some of the concepts that the department wants to pursue through this legislation, can the Minister clearly state whether there is any intention to make this review open to the public at some stage and ensure that there are independent experts retained as part of it? Thank you, Mr. Chair.

The Chair

The Chair Daniel McNeely

Thank you, Mr. O'Reilly. Minister Schumann.

Wally Schumann

Wally Schumann Hay River South

Thank you, Mr. Chair. This is a multi-departmental review, as I've just said, and that's going to be up to the 19th Legislative Assembly, what they want to do. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

The Chair

The Chair Daniel McNeely

Thank you, Minister Schumann. Mr. O'Reilly.

Kevin O'Reilly

Kevin O'Reilly Frame Lake

Thanks, Mr. Chair. That's not the kind of reassurance I was hoping for and that I think the public deserves, so I'll continue to pursue that. The regulation-making process is not set out in the legislation. We had one Indigenous government, Sahtu Secretariat Incorporated, actually bring to our attention that there was some preliminary work being done on developing a memorandum of understanding or some sort of an agreement on what level of engagement they would have moving forward in the regulations. Can the Minister clearly state on the record what that process is going to look like, beyond what he has already said in his opening remarks, and whether there is going to be an opportunity for Indigenous governments, the public, industry to have some level of involvement in drafting or at least the review of regulations? Thank you, Mr. Chair.

The Chair

The Chair Daniel McNeely

Thank you, Mr. O'Reilly. Minister Schumann.

Wally Schumann

Wally Schumann Hay River South

Thank you, Mr. Chair. For the record, I will say what I said the other night, too, just so it's on the record. We will continue to move forward in the spirit of partnership as we develop regulations should this bill pass. That means we are going to take the time to get this thing right, and that's how the Government of the Northwest Territories operates, Mr. Chair. We will continue to work closely with Indigenous governments as we move through the process, as is their right and our responsibility, and we will engage with industry, who is the most affected by these regulations. We will engage with Members of this Legislative Assembly, as has been our policy throughout this process, and we believe that is the right way forward. As I said today, I am confident that we are leaving the 19th Legislative Assembly the flexibility to find its own approach to regulation development. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

The Chair

The Chair Daniel McNeely

Thank you, Minister Schumann. Mr. O'Reilly.

Kevin O'Reilly

Kevin O'Reilly Frame Lake

Thanks, Mr. Chair. While I appreciate all of that, I just wish it was stated somewhere clearly in the bill.

Mr. Chair, we had this raised with us during the review. Can someone provide a clear definition of what "prospecting" is, and what can happen on a mineral claim, and what kind of prospecting or mineral exploration can happen off a mineral claim? Thank you, Mr. Chair.

The Chair

The Chair Daniel McNeely

Thank you, Mr. O'Reilly. Minister Schumann.

Wally Schumann

Wally Schumann Hay River South

Thank you, Mr. Chair. I need him to clarify the question again just so it is very clear.

The Chair

The Chair Daniel McNeely

Thank you, Minister Schumann. Mr. O'Reilly, could you [microphone turned off] please. Thank you.

Kevin O'Reilly

Kevin O'Reilly Frame Lake

Why is there no definition of "prospecting" in the bill? I would like someone to clearly explain what kind of exploration can happen on a claim versus off a claim, what kind of work. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

The Chair

The Chair Daniel McNeely

Thank you, Mr. O'Reilly. Minister Schumann. Thank you. Ms. Faryna.

Faryna

Thank you, Mr. Chair. Just to clarify, the rights that are granted under a mineral claim, the nature of that is the exclusivity. It is about who can do work on that claim and who cannot. The claimholder is the only one who can do work on the claim. Whether activities are authorized or not on that claim in terms of land use is under the Mackenzie Valley Resource Management Act. Whether or not the work done on the claim is given credit under an act is under the work assessment regulations currently under the mining regulations, which would be reflected in the regulations under the Mineral Resources Act. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

The Chair

The Chair Daniel McNeely

Thank you, Ms. Faryna. Next, we have Mr. Simpson.