This is page numbers 6187 - 6288 of the Hansard for the 18th Assembly, 3rd Session. The original version can be accessed on the Legislative Assembly's website or by contacting the Legislative Assembly Library. The word of the day was public.

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Committee Motion 215-18(3): Bill 34: Mineral Resources Act - Amend paragraph 17.1(1)(q), Defeated
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Kevin O'Reilly

Kevin O'Reilly Frame Lake

Thank you, Mr. Chair. I move that clause 7 of Bill 34 be amended by adding the following after paragraph (3)(r) -- I am sorry, Mr. Speaker. My motions are out of order.

Committee Motion 215-18(3): Bill 34: Mineral Resources Act - Amend paragraph 17.1(1)(q), Defeated
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you, Mr. O'Reilly. We will be taking a dinner break in about 16 minutes, just in case anyone is wondering. I know we are all getting a little tired and confused. To clause 7, committee already agreed. Thank you.

---Clauses 8 through 17 inclusive approved

Committee Motion 215-18(3): Bill 34: Mineral Resources Act - Amend paragraph 17.1(1)(q), Defeated
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Clause 17.1. Mr. O'Reilly.

Committee Motion 215-18(3): Bill 34: Mineral Resources Act - Amend paragraph 17.1(1)(q), Defeated
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Kevin O'Reilly

Kevin O'Reilly Frame Lake

Thank you, Mr. Chair. Yes, I have a question I'd like to start with, and I want to commend the department, again. This took a lot of work. The annual report requirements are new. This was something that committee worked hard on with the department, and it's definitely an improvement.

So 17.1(1)(q) says the total amount of royalties paid the Government of the Northwest Territories. I understand that, right now, this actually doesn't happen, the public reporting of total royalties. We do get public accounts where there are combined figures for oil and gas and mining royalties, so can someone with the department confirm for me that this is actually an improvement and that it is going to require greater disclosure on our part as a government? Thanks, Mr. Chair.

Committee Motion 215-18(3): Bill 34: Mineral Resources Act - Amend paragraph 17.1(1)(q), Defeated
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you. Minister.

Committee Motion 215-18(3): Bill 34: Mineral Resources Act - Amend paragraph 17.1(1)(q), Defeated
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Wally Schumann

Wally Schumann Hay River South

Thank you, Mr. Chair. The answer is yes. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Committee Motion 215-18(3): Bill 34: Mineral Resources Act - Amend paragraph 17.1(1)(q), Defeated
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you. Mr. O'Reilly.

Committee Motion 215-18(3): Bill 34: Mineral Resources Act - Amend paragraph 17.1(1)(q), Defeated
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Kevin O'Reilly

Kevin O'Reilly Frame Lake

Thanks, Mr. Chair. That's great. Is there anything that would prevent the reporting of royalties by each mine? I'm not talking about the calculation of those royalties, but disclosure to the public of an actual figure of the royalties remitted to our government by each mine? Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Committee Motion 215-18(3): Bill 34: Mineral Resources Act - Amend paragraph 17.1(1)(q), Defeated
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 6243

The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you. Minister.

Committee Motion 215-18(3): Bill 34: Mineral Resources Act - Amend paragraph 17.1(1)(q), Defeated
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Wally Schumann

Wally Schumann Hay River South

Thank you, Mr. Chair. Presently, it's confidential under the Mining Regulations, but as part of our broader context, like we said, going forward the review and reporting will be part of the discussion. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Committee Motion 215-18(3): Bill 34: Mineral Resources Act - Amend paragraph 17.1(1)(q), Defeated
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you. Mr. O'Reilly.

Committee Motion 215-18(3): Bill 34: Mineral Resources Act - Amend paragraph 17.1(1)(q), Defeated
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Kevin O'Reilly

Kevin O'Reilly Frame Lake

Thanks, Mr. Chair. Some of our mining companies here actually are required under the Extractive Sector Transparency Measures Act, federal legislation, to disclose on an annual basis what they pay actually to our government in the form of taxes, fees, royalties. Part of the issue is that there is no consistent reporting period, but can someone confirm for me that, indeed, the royalties paid by those companies that do business in the Northwest Territories, portions of that may actually already be disclosed under the federal legislation? Thanks, Mr. Chair.

Committee Motion 215-18(3): Bill 34: Mineral Resources Act - Amend paragraph 17.1(1)(q), Defeated
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you. Minister.

Committee Motion 215-18(3): Bill 34: Mineral Resources Act - Amend paragraph 17.1(1)(q), Defeated
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Wally Schumann

Wally Schumann Hay River South

Thank you, Mr. Chair. Yes, it might, but it's a self-reporting mechanism. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Committee Motion 215-18(3): Bill 34: Mineral Resources Act - Amend paragraph 17.1(1)(q), Defeated
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you. Mr. O'Reilly.

Committee Motion 215-18(3): Bill 34: Mineral Resources Act - Amend paragraph 17.1(1)(q), Defeated
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Kevin O'Reilly

Kevin O'Reilly Frame Lake

Thanks, Mr. Chair. Ah, now we're getting somewhere. I raised these issues right at the beginning in some of my remarks on the bill, that it is a self-reporting mechanism, and there are different reporting periods, and there are different reporting entities. Are there any reasons why we couldn't disclose the royalties paid by each mine to the public? Thanks, Mr. Chair.

Committee Motion 215-18(3): Bill 34: Mineral Resources Act - Amend paragraph 17.1(1)(q), Defeated
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you. Minister.

Committee Motion 215-18(3): Bill 34: Mineral Resources Act - Amend paragraph 17.1(1)(q), Defeated
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Wally Schumann

Wally Schumann Hay River South

Thank you, Mr. Chair. That's a conversation that we have to have with our producers going forward, and we've talked about this many times with the committee. This is a complex issue, as I've said before in this House, and it's a conversation that deserves its own time. We need to have those discussions going forward on how that's going to work. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Committee Motion 215-18(3): Bill 34: Mineral Resources Act - Amend paragraph 17.1(1)(q), Defeated
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 6243

The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you. Mr. O'Reilly.

Committee Motion 215-18(3): Bill 34: Mineral Resources Act - Amend paragraph 17.1(1)(q), Defeated
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Kevin O'Reilly

Kevin O'Reilly Frame Lake

Thanks, Mr. Chair. I'm trying to understand what the problem is, here. It's okay to report an aggregate amount of royalties paid, but it's not possible to report that as a breakdown because of some larger fiscal review that the Minister and his department want to undertake? Look, companies file, or will be filing, an annual royalty return. They remit money to our government. What is the problem in disclosing to the public what that figure actually is? Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Committee Motion 215-18(3): Bill 34: Mineral Resources Act - Amend paragraph 17.1(1)(q), Defeated
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you. Minister.

Committee Motion 215-18(3): Bill 34: Mineral Resources Act - Amend paragraph 17.1(1)(q), Defeated
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Wally Schumann

Wally Schumann Hay River South

Thank you, Mr. Chair. As I have said before, royalties is a subject of a conversation we've had many times in this House. As another Member's opening comments said, there needs to be a wider context of what is actually included in what the mineral industry contributes to the Northwest Territories, such as property tax and these such things. That's a discussion that needs to take place, and that's why we've separated it from this act to have that conversation at the 19th Legislative Assembly. That work has already begun, to look at that process. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Committee Motion 215-18(3): Bill 34: Mineral Resources Act - Amend paragraph 17.1(1)(q), Defeated
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you. Mr. O'Reilly.

Committee Motion 215-18(3): Bill 34: Mineral Resources Act - Amend paragraph 17.1(1)(q), Defeated
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Kevin O'Reilly

Kevin O'Reilly Frame Lake

Thanks, Mr. Chair. Look, I don't want to debate the benefits that the mining industry provides to the Northwest Territories. I've acknowledged them openly in this House. They pay property taxes, they pay taxes, their employees pay taxes. That's all great, but what is the problem with disclosing to the public the amount of royalties paid? That's just a calculation. This is not the entire picture, but I'm trying to understand what the rationale is to prevent disclosure of the royalties that are paid. I just haven't heard a good reason why that amount can't be disclosed.

The other benefits, that's great, that can be part of a discussion, but why can't the royalties paid to this government be disclosed to the public for each mine? Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Committee Motion 215-18(3): Bill 34: Mineral Resources Act - Amend paragraph 17.1(1)(q), Defeated
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

The question has been asked and answered, Mr. O'Reilly.