This is page numbers 5827 - 5874 of the Hansard for the 19th Assembly, 2nd Session. The original version can be accessed on the Legislative Assembly's website or by contacting the Legislative Assembly Library. The word of the day was know.

Topics

Members Present

Hon. Diane Archie, Hon. Frederick Blake Jr., Mr. Bonnetrouge, Hon. Paulie Chinna, Ms. Cleveland, Hon. Caroline Cochrane, Mr. Edjericon, Hon. Julie Green, Mr. Jacobson, Mr. Johnson, Ms. Martselos, Ms. Nokleby, Mr. O'Reilly, Ms. Semmler, Mr. Rocky Simpson, Hon. Shane Thompson, Hon. Caroline Wawzonek, Ms. Weyallon Armstrong

The House met at 1:32 p.m.

---Prayer

Prayer
Prayer

Page 5827

The Speaker

The Speaker Frederick Blake Jr.

Ministers' statements. Honourable Premier.

Caroline Cochrane

Caroline Cochrane Range Lake

Mr. Speaker, I want to acknowledge the recent addition of the Legislative Assembly's process convention related to the introduction, consideration, and enactment of bills under the Intergovernmental Council Legislative Development Protocol. Mr. Speaker, I do not often get to express appreciation for the work of the Legislative Assembly as led by you, Mr. Speaker, and supported by the Clerk and your staff. This new process convention is another example of the Northwest Territories leading the way in collaboration with Indigenous governments.

Devolution of lands and resources gave the Government of the Northwest Territories the opportunity to do things better. One of the commitments made was to work collaboratively in the development of land and resource legislation and policies through an Intergovernmental Council with Indigenous government partners. This was done to ensure that the interests of Indigenous peoples as they relate to lands and resources are well considered as this government undertakes its work and to encourage further collaboration and harmonization as Indigenous governments create their own laws respecting lands and resources through self-government.

In December of 2020 the Legislative Development Protocol was implemented to guide collaboration among the Executive branch of the GNWT and Indigenous governments in the development of lands and resources legislation. That protocol provides a consistent approach for the parties to follow, but it necessarily stopped short of directing what happens when a bill is developed and put forward to the Legislative Assembly. The work done by the Legislative Assembly and the Intergovernmental Council Secretariat to develop a process convention addressing legislation drafted in cooperation with the Intergovernmental Council is the first of its kind. It demonstrates the Northwest Territories leadership in working collaboratively with Indigenous governments.

Mr. Speaker, I look forward to this process convention being utilized so that when lands and resource legislation is put before this Legislative Assembly, MLAs have the benefit of hearing directly from Indigenous governments. As standing committees undertake their work and consider potential improvements to bills, Indigenous governments will be informed and may attend and participate in reviews. This is an example of reconciliation in action, and I wish to thank the Legislative Assembly for its support of our shared goal of advancing reconciliation. Good work, Mr. Speaker, and your team. Mashi cho.

The Speaker

The Speaker Frederick Blake Jr.

Here, here.

Colleagues, before we continue, I'd like to recognize our Member of Parliament for the Northwest Territories, Mr. Michael McLeod, also former Member of the 15th and 16th Assembly and also Minister, here to announce more federal spending in the Northwest Territories. Don't forget your friends in the MacKenzie Delta. Welcome to the Chamber.

Ministers' statements. Minister of Finance.

Caroline Wawzonek

Caroline Wawzonek Yellowknife South

Mr. Speaker, on January 16th, the Government of the Northwest Territories launched a new open data portal to provide a single point of access for existing GNWT data resources. This portal represents a significant step forward in our commitment to transparency and open government and it will be a valuable resource for residents, businesses, researchers, and anyone else interested in the data and information that shapes our communities and our economy. The open data portal provides easy access to a wide range of data including information on demographics, economy, environment, health, and many other topics. This data can be used to make informed decisions, spur innovation, and encourage economic growth.

Mr. Speaker, the Government of the Northwest Territories is committed to the principles of Open Government, demonstrated through efforts to increase openness, transparency, and accountability. Open Government is about providing timely, accurate information, and data to ensure the Northwest Territories residents are informed about government policies, activities, initiatives, spending and programs and services. It is about engaging with Northwest Territories residents so the government can take into account the concerns and views of the public in establishing priorities, developing policies, and implementing programs. Open Government also ensures that the GNWT is visible, accessible, and answerable to the people it serves.

Mr. Speaker, the GNWT has worked towards putting the principles of Open Government into action in the areas of open data, open information, and open dialogue since the establishment of the Open Government Policy in 2018. Launching the open data portal is the latest step we have taken as a government toward greater transparency and accountability. At launch, the portal included over 300 data sets from supply chain data to data on highway traffic and will be updated and expanded regularly. The next data sets expected to be launched in the portal are new and updated data from the Northwest Territories Bureau of Statistics such as Northwest Territories income data as well as Northwest Territories geospatial data such as mineral and land tenure information. This new data is expected to be launched in the portal in the first quarter of next fiscal year.

The Open Government steering committee will continue to promote the identification and release of additional data sets across government. By making our data easily accessible, we will empower our citizens and organizations to make better use of it and make more informed decisions that benefit the territory. I encourage all residents, businesses, and territorial organizations to familiarize themselves with the Open data portal and all that it offers. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

The Speaker

The Speaker Frederick Blake Jr.

Thank you, Minister. Ministers' statements. Minister responsible for Infrastructure.

Diane Archie

Diane Archie Inuvik Boot Lake

Mr. Speaker, in 2018, the Government of the Northwest Territories released the 2030 Energy Strategy - our roadmap to supporting secure, affordable, and sustainable energy in the NWT. Guided by the energy strategy, the Climate Change Strategic Framework and the GNWT's mandate, we are working to increase the use of alternative and renewable energy and reduce the territory's greenhouse gas emissions.

Mr. Speaker, as of 2020 the Northwest Territories greenhouse gas emissions were 19 percent below 2005 levels. The reduction target we have committed to is 30 percent below 2005 levels by 2030, and we are on track to meet that target. However, we all know that much can and will change during the life of the energy strategy. Technologies improve, new ways of doing things emerge, new government policies cause shifts in how we produce and use energy. That is why the GNWT and its partners have always taken an adaptive approach to the strategy. This allows us to take advantage of new technologies and opportunities as they arise.

In December of last year, we released the 2022-2025 Energy Action Plan. The plan builds on the actions and initiatives of the previous plan and sets out what we plan to do over the next three years.

What we plan to do is ambitious. We are going to invest $194 million to implement 68 actions and initiatives that advance the six strategic objectives in the energy strategy. We expect this investment and the work outlined in the updated action plan will reduce greenhouse gas emissions by 51 kilotonnes by 2025. Guided by the action plan, the GNWT will also continue to explore and advance transformative projects such as the Fort Providence-Kakisa Transmission Line, a fast-charging corridor for electric vehicles stretching from Yellowknife to the Alberta border, and emerging low-carbon technologies like renewable diesel and hydrogen. This will lead to significant greenhouse gas emissions reductions and increase the use of alternative and renewable energy in the territory beyond 2025.

Mr. Speaker, the GNWT is about to start a review of the energy strategy. We committed to review it every five years so that it remains current and reflects what is realistic and achievable in the North. The GNWT has completed modeling work to better understand what options for a low-carbon future look like in the North. This work will be instrumental in the review of the energy strategy and will be used to evaluate and manage our progress. This review will also include extensive public engagement to understand where we can improve the energy actions and initiatives to better serve the people of the NWT. When it is completed, we will have the information needed to re-evaluate the strategy's strategic objectives to ensure they represent what is achievable, given both new technologies and the opportunities and realities of the North.

Mr. Speaker, this is challenging but necessary work. As we implement the updated energy action plan and review the 2030 Energy Strategy, the GNWT will evaluate the successes like our energy efficiency programs, biomass heating initiatives, assess where we can improve, and look for new opportunities to help us achieve the strategy's vision and support secure, affordable and sustainable energy in the Northwest Territories. Quyananni, Mr. Speaker.

The Speaker

The Speaker Frederick Blake Jr.

Thank you, Minister. Ministers' statements. Minister responsible for Health and Social Services.

Julie Green

Julie Green Yellowknife Centre

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I would like to share information today about the voluntary supports available for Northwest Territories children, youth, and families through the health and social services system. There are several voluntary support services in place that are based on the prevention of negative outcomes. Community social workers are available to assist individuals and families in accessing them.

Through a voluntary support services agreement, children, youth, and their caregivers can receive help without parents giving up their legal rights and responsibilities for their child. Services and supports can include referrals for counselling, respite, parenting programs, alcohol and/or drug treatment, mental health services, and support to improve a family's financial situation. Voluntary support service agreements allow families to remain together through challenging situations.

Support services agreements are also available for youth between the ages of 16 and 18 who have no legal guardian able or available to support them. Through these agreements, youth can get assistance with education, room and board, counselling, respite, young parenting programs, alcohol and/or drug treatment, and mental health. The goal is to help the young person to live independently and achieve their goals as they transition into adulthood. For young adults aging out of the permanent custody of the director of child and family services when they turn 19, extended support services agreements are available until they reach 23 years of age. These agreements meet the needs of the young adult on a case-by-case basis.

Mr. Speaker, the health and social service authorities also deliver the Healthy Families and the Family Preservation programs.

The Healthy Families Program is culture-based and provides parents with skills and community engagement to ensure they have the tools and knowledge to help their children thrive. The program is open to all families with children prenatal to six years of age. They can either refer themselves or be referred by a professional. All engagement is voluntary. The Healthy Family Program is offered in most NWT communities.

The Family Preservation Program provides supports to families with complex needs so that children can remain within their family, community, and culture. The goal of this program is to preserve the family unit and give parents, children, and others the tools they need to be successful. These services are available to families with children up to 23 years of age. Youth up to the age of 23 can also access these services themselves. Again, this program is voluntary and referral-based.

Mr. Speaker, we understand the impact and trauma from the legacy of child and family services. We are working to reduce barriers and ensure that these services are provided in a culturally safe and respectful manner. We are committed to safeguarding the well-being and connection of all children and youth to their families, cultures, and communities. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

The Speaker

The Speaker Frederick Blake Jr.

Thank you, Minister. Colleagues, before we continue, I'd like to recognize Grand Chief of the Tlicho government Mr. Jackson Lafferty, also former Speaker, Minister, and Member of the 15th, 16th, 17th, 18th, and 19th Assemblies. Welcome. Welcome back. Please behave up there now, Boys.

Members' statements. Member for Thebacha.

Frieda Martselos

Frieda Martselos Thebacha

Mr. Speaker, yesterday as Caucus chair, I pleased to table a consensus government convention that clarifies how this Assembly will consider and pass land and resource legislation that has been in partnership with Indigenous governments in the NWT.

Mr. Speaker, before becoming an MLA, I served for 14 years as chief of the Salt River First Nation. I was at a table with Premier McLeod and other northern leaders when the devolution agreement was signed and negotiated. It was a hard-fought negotiation.

I want to be very clear that devolution was never intended to transfer the authority for lands and resources to the Government of the Northwest Territories. I and other Indigenous leaders who negotiated the deal viewed it, and continue to view it, as the proper resumption of control over northern lands and resources by Northerners, all Northerners.

Mr. Speaker, in the last Assembly, the Intergovernmental Council, including the Government of the Northwest Territories, cooperated on the drafting of the Mineral Resources Act. It wasn't easy, and there was a lot of give and take. Once the bill was introduced, however, it was amended by the Assembly with little to no input from Indigenous governments who helped draft it. That was unfortunate, Mr. Speaker. It was a step back for reconciliation when we were badly in need of a giant step forward.

Mr. Speaker, the process convention I tabled yesterday will help ensure that this does not happen again. It recognizes that while this Assembly has the exclusive jurisdiction to make public laws in the NWT, it does not and should not do so in a vacuum. Indigenous governments are not stakeholders in land and resource legislation. They are the primary stewards, owners, and knowledge-keepers of our northern land and resources. Starting with the Forest Act that was introduced this week, Indigenous governments will not be included in all discussions between the Minister and standing committees on land and resource bills and will have an opportunity to state their views directly to the committee. The convention adds additional time to the standing committee review process and ensures that Indigenous governments will have time to consider and express their views directly to the committee on proposed amendments to these bills. IGC representatives will be invited to this Chamber as full witnesses during the Committee of the Whole review of land and resources bills and, importantly, on to the floor along with all 19 of us when the Commissioner gives assent to these bills and brings them into law. Mr. Speaker, I seek unanimous consent to conclude my statement.

---Unanimous consent granted

Mr. Speaker, this protocol is a first of its kind in Canada. For many Canadians, reconciliation is a distant abstract aspiration. However, here in the NWT, and in this Chamber, reconciliation is infused in everything we do. In the NWT, we're on the frontlines of reconciliation and must break a trail for the rest of Canada to follow. This protocol demonstrates that consensus government can adapt to reflect the wonderfully complex political environment in the NWT.

I want to thank and congratulate all my colleagues for taking this bold step forward. This is what leadership looks like, and I am proud to have my signature on this important step toward greater reconciliation. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

The Speaker

The Speaker Frederick Blake Jr.

Thank you, Member for Thebacha. Members' statements. Member for Frame Lake.

Kevin O'Reilly

Kevin O'Reilly Frame Lake

Merci, Monsieur le President. Sometimes we get so caught up in our day-to-day activities in this House that we miss when something really special or historic happens. Yesterday a new process convention was tabled in this House on how we review resource management legislation. This represents a fundamental and seismic change in how our Legislative Assembly works when it comes to legislation co-drafted pursuant to the devolution agreement of 2014 and the Intergovernmental Council Legislative Development Protocol. I predict that this new collaborative approach will eventually be extended to other areas of shared jurisdiction and interest between Northwest Territories Indigenous governments and the Government of the Northwest Territories such as education and social services.

This new arrangement between Regular MLAs and Cabinet stems from lessons learned during the co-development and review of resource management legislation in the last Assembly. Standing committee would hear concerns and issues from the public and Indigenous governments, sometimes resulting in amendments. Indigenous governments were surprised when amendments were proposed and made to some of those laws without their input. This process convention will extend the review period for new resource management legislation and provides for increased sharing of information between standing committee and the Intergovernmental Council during the review of a bill. Indigenous governments will also be able to attend meetings on bills and appear on the floor of this House. I am not aware of any other jurisdiction in Canada that has this type of arrangement, and I believe it sets a useful and needed precedent. We will test drive this new process with Bill 74, Forest Act.

While this new historic arrangement builds on what we learned in the last Assembly with resource management legislation, there is still more work to be done. We need to find better ways to share information and engage those Indigenous governments that are not part of the Intergovernmental Council. There are still problems with the consistency, timing, and amount of information shared with standing committee by Cabinet on the co-drafting of resource management legislation.

Lastly, I continue to be profoundly disappointed with the failure of Cabinet to apply its own Open Government policy in the development of new resource management legislation and regulations. GNWT needs to step up and ensure there is a parallel process for the public in the development of this new legislation and a clear role for the public in decision-making. Mr. Speaker, I seek unanimous consent to conclude my statement.

---Unanimous consent granted

Merci, Monsieur le President. GNWT needs to step up and ensure there is a parallel process for the public in the development of this new resource management legislation and a clear role for the public in decision-making. This is what our residents have come to expect from responsible resource development and co-management itself.

I would be remiss, Mr. Speaker, if I did not acknowledge and thank our Clerk and the staff of the Intergovernmental Council for their hard work in helping us reach this new process convention. Mahsi, Mr. Speaker.

The Speaker

The Speaker Frederick Blake Jr.

Thank you, Member for Frame Lake. Members' statements. Member for Hay River South.

Rocky Simpson

Rocky Simpson Hay River South

Blue skies and warmer weather. Mr. Speaker, it is the time of year for events meant to welcome warmer weather. Last weekend it was K'amba Carnival. Now in Hay River, on the 17th to the 19th is now time for Polar Pond Hockey.

Mr. Speaker, to bring this event together requires a lot of work from a lot of dedicated volunteers, along with sponsorships from a great number of local businesses. It means clearing massive amounts of snow off the river down by Fishermen's Wharf, then it is on to laying out ten rinks and preparing them for flooding. As all that is happening, a setup crew is installing Big Blue, which is a covered structure where food and beverages can be had while warming up between games. In the evening, Big Blue is a venue for live bands to entertain all into the early morning hours.

Mr. Speaker, the event draws teams from throughout the NWT, Alberta, and Nunavut. There are three divisions which include ladies, open, and seniors. Playing hockey in this event is not only competitive and fun but for those of us who knew nothing else but outdoor rinks when we were young, a long time ago, taking part in this event for, but a moment, brings us back to the time of our youth and the pure fun of hockey on an outdoor rink. Mr. Speaker, I welcome all of you to Hay River to either take part in the event, cheer on friends and family, or just enjoy the festivities. Thank you.

The Speaker

The Speaker Frederick Blake Jr.

Thank you, Member for Hay River South. Members' statements. Member for Deh Cho.

Ronald Bonnetrouge

Ronald Bonnetrouge Deh Cho

Mahsi, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I have spoken several times of my concerns with the Alberta tailings ponds and the toxic sludge contained within them. Tailings ponds are manmade open reservoirs, the size of lakes, that hold toxic waste from the oil extraction, and they contain arsenic, dissolved heavy metals and hydrocarbons. These tailings ponds are large enough to be seen from space and are some of the biggest human made structures on earth.

Mr. Speaker, many First Nations downstream from the Alberta tar sands tailings ponds have expressed time and time their concerns with the tailing ponds breaching their dikes.

Unbeknownst to any First Nations, nor the Government of the Northwest Territories, this is exactly what occurred in May 2022. This government only found out last week, and the information did not come from the Alberta government nor the Alberta premier. This information came from the affected First Nations near the tar sands tailings ponds in Alberta.

Mr. Speaker, there's a story in the Edmonton Journal newspaper dated March 6th, 2023, in which the Alberta premier states not only her concern with the spill but to also state that Alberta had no obligation to notify the Government of the Northwest Territories of the spill.

Mr. Speaker, this is preposterous. In this day and age of supposed collaboration between the governments of the province and the territory, and the territory gets the rotten egg. Mr. Speaker, I will have questions not for the Minister of MACA, not for the Minister of ENR, not for the Minister of Lands, but for the Premier of the Northwest Territories and how she will stand up and defend our most precious resource - the water. Mahsi.

The Speaker

The Speaker Frederick Blake Jr.

Thank you, Member for Deh Cho. Members' statements. Member for Inuvik Twin Lakes.

Lesa Semmler

Lesa Semmler Inuvik Twin Lakes

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, public lands in the NWT is something that we all enjoy and have access to as Northerners and Canadians. We use these lands for a variety of reasons like recreation, travel, and often to just get closer to nature. These public lands are something that we all cherish. Public lands in my riding, and as well as my colleagues' ridings, are deeply connected to the culture of Indigenous people of the North. In fact, Mr. Speaker, in my riding there are two land claim agreements in place; three if you include the transboundary nature of the Sahtu, Gwich'in, and the Inuvialuit agreements.

Mr. Speaker, in these agreements, it speaks to members of these agreements being able to access public lands in their respective areas for the purpose of harvesting. Part of these harvesting rights include the right to establish camps for the purpose of harvesting. In the case of the Inuvialuit, for example, that agreement says that beneficiaries should not be charged fees for exercising their rights like the establishment of camps under these leases. Mr. Speaker, I've had concerns raised to me by numerous people that they are being charged fees to exercise their right in the way of lease payments. In some cases, people have asked to surrender their lease and want to fall under rights-based rights designation. These leaseholders are told they need to remove everything from the land and inspect and done before they can surrender their lease even though these may be rights-based camps and passed through generations, Mr. Speaker. In other instances, some people have been threatened to be taken to court or collections for nonpayment. And in another case, full fees have been charged even though the land, or most of it, is gone because it eroded away by the mighty Mackenzie River, Mr. Speaker, and the structure was moved before they even received the bill. Mr. Speaker, today I will have questions for the Minister of Lands and why his department is charging fees to Indigenous people to exercise their right to establish camps and if those fees go against the land claim agreements that we as GNWT are party to, Mr. Speaker. I will also be asking the Minister to commit today to pausing all current Indigenous lease fees and collection actions under a more detailed review can be done on this issue. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

The Speaker

The Speaker Frederick Blake Jr.

Thank you, Member for Inuvik Twin Lakes. Members' statements. Member for Monfwi.

Jane Weyallon Armstrong

Jane Weyallon Armstrong Monfwi

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, it is with great pleasure I would like to recognize the efforts from our Tlicho youth who are working to host the second Idaa Ts'ade Youth Gathering with a big focus on the wellness and Tlicho way of life. This event is a youth-led initiative for Tlicho youth ages 16 to 35 years old living in Canada. Young people have decided to gather again to share ideas, learn new information, engage in traditional activities, and network with various people and organizations. I applaud these young people for recognizing the need to come together to deal and address social issues young people face every day of their young life.

This is a challenge. In many cases, it prohibits young people from moving forward. The need to come together is rewarding. It will help with healing and begin a new journey for the next generations.

The Idaa Ts'ade Gathering will be held on March 20th to 24th, 2023, at Chief Jimmy Bruneau School in Edzo. They are anticipating about 150 youth to be present at this event. Therefore, I want to send my appreciation to this wonderful youth-led project, led by Antonia Dryneck-Black, Janelle Nitsiza, and Jodie Zoe, and their committee members for their commitment to work with the youth. And I would also like to acknowledge the committee members Tiana Steinwand, Lydia Rabesca, Jocelle Zoe, Michelle Zoe, Justine Sarasin, Edie Erasmus, Francis Sheft, Stephanie Rabesca, Debbie Simpson, Belinda Blackduck, Antoine Scott-Ennis, Shania Clarke, and Mercedes Rabesca. Thank you.

The Speaker

The Speaker Frederick Blake Jr.

Thank you, Member for Monfwi. Members' statements. Member for Nunakput.

Jackie Jacobson

Jackie Jacobson Nunakput

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, yesterday I spoke in the House about impacts on carbon tax. Carbon tax is going to increase the cost of living in the Northwest Territories, Mr. Speaker, in my riding by 17 percent on heating fuel, and every year after is four cents added on to that. Mr. Speaker, how are we going to tax people when we're already stretched to the limit to put food on the table and have nothing to give? Why are the people who are living in the highest Arctic communities, who are most impacted by climate change, having to pay climate change tax? On top of all this, now we have to pay more. Already we pay more, two cents a litre on heating fuel, which is about $2.24 a litre for heating fuel in the community already, and it's going to get stretched, impacted, more impact to the people, more impact to private homeowners. Families could barely afford to buy food, Mr. Speaker, in the highest food prices across the food index in the NWT. Over 50 percent Nunakput residents are worried about having enough money to pay for food to put on the table for their families, Mr. Speaker. Why we have to hunt to put food on table. It's not only our culture, it's a way of life. Hunting alleviates the pressure on putting expensive food on the table when we -- subsistence hunters. Price food bills, but it's so expensive the cost of gas. It's dangerous on changing climate. Our power bills in the communities continue to go up as well. We pay some of the highest rates in the power. In Sachs Harbour, it's $2.20 a kilowatt. And the housing the government provides our people through public housing are paper-thin walls, cracks in the doors, walls that bring snow right through our homes, floors that have to have blankets put down to save energy and to keep their feet warm in the unit.

Mr. Speaker, people in my riding have very little employment opportunities. Nunakput families earn an average $50,000 less than the NWT family. It's almost 20 percent of income assistance; 10 percent of families make less than $30,000. There's an offshore moratorium and on shore resource development dragging on. There's no way out to get ahead, Mr. Speaker. There's no way to pay the bills the residents already have now that they're going to be taxed more.

Mr. Speaker, I oppose Bill 60. I want to kill that bill. It's pretty simple. Can't tax people who have nothing to give. Over the next two weeks, I encourage everyone in the communities to rally against, talk to their MLAs, and encourage them to talk to their MLAs in regards to Bill 60 and why are they going to support to it if they're going to support it, and please don't support Bill 60. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

The Speaker

The Speaker Frederick Blake Jr.

Thank you, Member for Nunakput. Members' statements. Member for Tu Nedhe-Wiilideh.

Richard Edjericon

Richard Edjericon Tu Nedhe-Wiilideh

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, today I stand before you to remind this government the dark chapter in Canadian history of the devastating issue of child abuse and genocide that took place in Canada's day school system. This systematic culture devastation committed against Indigenous people in our country for far too long. It is time for us to acknowledge the damages done and make amends to the atrocities committed.

Our government is not innocent in this matter. The federal Indian day school and the Indian federal day school were transferred to the GNWT on April 1st, 1969, and the territorial government continued these programs until April 1st, 1996, for 27 years under the GNWT system, and the abuse continued throughout the NWT, including in the Tu Nedhe-Wiilideh riding of N'dilo, Dettah, Lutselk'e, and Fort Resolution.

The discovery of the remains of hundreds of Indigenous children at a residential school across Canada is a stark reminder of the horrors that these children and their families suffered. The scars of this traumatic experience still run deep. It is time for us to take action to help those affected to heal and move forward. The Government of the Northwest Territories must step up and advocate for the victims of the day school system. It is their responsibility to ensure that the Indigenous children and their families receive compensation from the federal government in resources for the abuse and harm they have endured after April 1st, 1969 to 1996.

We must stand together as a nation and work together in healing and reconciliation for all Indigenous people. We need to ensure that all Indigenous people receive the care and support and resources needed to heal and recover from this. We cannot allow survivors and their families to suffer in silence and must do everything in our power to support them. The Government of the Northwest Territories must take the lead in advocating for the victims of the day school system after April 1st, 1969 to April 1st, 1996 and ensure that they receive the compensation they deserve similar to the federal day school compensation prior to 1969. Together we can work together at a brighter future for all Indigenous people in Canada. Let's stand together and make a difference for the survivors and their families. I would have questions for the Premier, Caroline Cochrane, at the appropriate time. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

The Speaker

The Speaker Frederick Blake Jr.

Thank you, Member for Tu Nedhe-Wiilideh. Members' statements. Member for Great Slave.

Katrina Nokleby

Katrina Nokleby Great Slave

Mr. Speaker, my riding is unique in Yellowknife in that it consists mainly of residential homes and apartment buildings with a few exceptions. There is the Catholic Church and the City of Yellowknife's water treatment plant as well as the NWT Geological Survey, Taiga lab, and Con Mine. And Mr. Speaker, there is one school, Sir John Franklin High School.

Sir John was first constructed in the 1960s with additional phases added and renovations carried out over the years. The building is also home to the Northern Arts and Cultural Centre, or NACC, one of the few theatrical arts spaces in our capital.

While operated by the Yellowknife School Board YK1, Sir John is unique as the board does not own the asset. Rather, Mr. Speaker, YK1 maintains and operates the school under agreements with the GNWT. This is likely due to the school being on the site of the former Akaitcho Hall residential school, further complicating issues.

When insurance costs escalated during the pandemic, an MOU was signed between the school boards and ECE for the GNWT to insure the schools, easing some of their financial burden. In return, the boards agreed to maintain the schools to GNWT standards. However, these standards are more stringent than their previous level of maintenance and it is costing them money. Since 2019 there has been a 30 to 40 percent increase in material costs to maintain the operations of YK1's buildings. Sir John has a chronic leaking pipe that became an emergency around Christmas and YK1 was left scrambling to find funds to pay for the patch job.

Mr. Speaker, $1 million in maintenance is required for this leaking pipe alone. Who is going to pay for that? Will YK1 have to take it out of their programming budget to fix this issue in a building they don't even own? Additionally, $100,000 in upgrades is required for Sir John's internal phone system, a safety issue when inoperable. But there aren't any funds to pay for this either. In total, YK1 needs $1.4 million for the maintenance of their schools. The ECE Minister said he would investigate this pre-COVID but nothing has been done.

Mr. Speaker, we need to support our schools and ensure that all children in the NWT have safe spaces in which to learn and play. It is their right, and I hope that the department will help out our school boards with their ongoing maintenance woes. If left on their own, programs will be cut, and children will suffer. And Mr. Speaker, NWT children deserve better than that. Thank you.

The Speaker

The Speaker Frederick Blake Jr.

Thank you, Member for Great Slave. Members' statements. Member for Kam Lake.

Caitlin Cleveland

Caitlin Cleveland Kam Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, Canadians en masse are working to access health care. They are waiting for elective surgeries, access to specialists, testing and treatment requirements of cancers, chronic disease, and STIs, and a surge in addiction and mental health support needs. In addition, special treatment programs like audiology, speech pathology, physiotherapy, and occupational therapy appointments put off over the pandemic further bottleneck our already fragile system. The catchup, Mr. Speaker, will take years, and some national experts speculate that the Canadian health care system may never catch up under its status quo approach. Today, to help alleviate the pressures of our health care system, many Canadian jurisdictions expanded the scope of practice to pharmacists. And I say many, Mr. Speaker, not all, because it is all except the NWT and Nunavut.

This term brought minor amendments to the Pharmacy Act and a promise of more ambitious legislation, but with five sitting days left in this month I am doubtful that I will see this promise realized.

Mr. Speaker, I want to talk about three examples of what this really means. Pharmacists can't prescribe medications for simple things like smoking cessation, minor ailments or conditions like chronic UTIs, or adapt a prescription to suit the needs and reactions of a patient. From flu shots to routine immunizations and travel vaccines, pharmacies can't offer convenient access to injections. NWT pharmacists have no injection authority. Beyond flu vaccines and COVID vaccines, a pharmacist can't even administer the medications they have handed to a patient. This means taking their medication, booking an appointment with primary care, and then having their medication injected by a nurse or physician, further straining our system. Patients can't work with pharmacists to sort out medication amounts or source alternatives.

An example of this is a Parkinson's patient who worked for two years to stabilize their medication. The current system forced a harmful back and forth between a taxed locum reliant system with zero continuity of care rather than empowering managing prescriptions with the pharmacist.

Mr. Speaker, this also causes a barrier to Indigenous residents covered by NHIB for things that should be easily accessible, like birth control, Tylenol, and diabetes devices like glucose test strips. With the current Act, residents need to request a prescription from a doctor and then go see a pharmacist to source these items. Canada's pharmacists are doing more for their patients than ever before, but they continue to be an underutilized health care resource in the Northwest Territories. When they can't practice to their full scope, Mr. Speaker, it means that patients aren't receiving the best possible care and the system can't work to its full potential. Thank you.

The Speaker

The Speaker Frederick Blake Jr.

Thank you, Member for Kam Lake. Members' statements. Member for Yellowknife North.

Rylund Johnson

Rylund Johnson Yellowknife North

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. This weekend is my least favourite day of the year, Mr. Speaker. And that's the day the clocks go forward. And, Mr. Speaker, it's not just me who hates the time change. Every single year the day after the time change there's a spike in car accidents, Mr. Speaker. People hate the time change so much they are crashing their cars in protest.

Mr. Speaker, the day after time change, the economy loses millions of dollars in economic productivity, and the Monday following time change is the Number 1 sick day consistently in the GNWT, Mr. Speaker. People awake and, in protest of the time change, they phone in sick to their public service job which they love, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Speaker, we recently went out and we surveyed whether to get rid of the time change, and it was the single biggest response the GNWT has ever gotten in a survey. 3,545 people responded. Mr. Speaker, that broke the previous record on the cannabis survey. The people have spoken. They hate the time change more than they love cannabis, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, 87 percent of respondents said they were in favour of getting rid of the time change. 87 percent, Mr. Speaker. What clearer direction do we need from our people?

Mr. Speaker, all too frequently we go out and we produce these "what we heard" reports, and they become "what we did not listen to" reports. Mr. Speaker, the Minister of time is not here today so I will have questions for the Premier whether she will listen to the people of the Northwest Territories, and this can be the last time change once and for all, Mr. Speaker.

The Speaker

The Speaker Frederick Blake Jr.

Thank you, Member for Yellowknife North. Members' statements. Member for Nahendeh.

Shane Thompson

Shane Thompson Nahendeh

Thank you Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Speaker, today I'd like to share with you a success story from the Nahendeh riding. 18 years ago, the business arm of the Acho Dene Koe First Nation, Fort Simpson Metis Nation, Nahanni Butte Dene Band, and Sambaa K'e First Nation came together to form Dehcho Regional Helicopters. The core of a business plan was to secure, with their operating partner Great Slave Helicopters, the contract for the helicopter services that supported the Fort Simpson fire base. It is a source of pride for the Dehcho Regional Helicopters Limited partners that every summer, since its founding, the company has played a part in managing wildfires and protecting the communities and cabins of their members from these fires.

In 2008, the company acquired its first helicopter, an ASTAR 350 B2, which its call sign was DCV. That helicopter has been dedicated to forestry contracts based out of Fort Simpson each summer.

In 2010, the partnership extended to include the economic arms of the Liidlii Kue First Nation and Pehdzeh Ki First Nation. The expansion united all seven First Nation and Metis Nations in the Nahendeh region in the business. Their business model and their commitment to each of the seven limited partners have contributed to this company's success.

This past spring, Dehcho Regional Helicopters acquired a second helicopter, an ASTAR 350 B3, named after the company with the call sign DRH, a helicopter which you might have noticed flying around the city because it's bright orange, has already worked at Diavik during drill moves outside of Yellowknife this past summer supporting fire crews in the mining sector in Saskatchewan.

As the only 100 percent Indigenous-owned helicopter company in the territory, Dehcho Regional Helicopters and its limited partners are committed to increasing Indigenous participation in leadership in the aviation industry. The company offered three different types of scholarships each year. In 2020, and again in 2021, the company was pleased to award $30,000 to fixed-wing or helicopter pilot scholarships to two students from Fort Simpson who were studying aviation management program at Sub-Arctic Leadership Training College in Fort Smith.

Dehcho Regional Helicopters, which is looking forward to celebrating its 20th anniversary in 2024, as an Indigenous business success story. Please join me in congratulating them. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

The Speaker

The Speaker Frederick Blake Jr.

Thank you, Member for Nahendeh. Members' statements. Returns to oral questions. Recognition of visitors in the gallery. Member for Inuvik Boot Lake.

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Diane Archie

Diane Archie Inuvik Boot Lake

Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I wish to wish Lillian Elias Happy Birthday today. She's our language interpreter. It's her 80th birthday. Quyananni for all your hard work that you do here. I'd also like to recognize MP McLeod and Grand Chief Lafferty who's joining me this afternoon to do a big announcement. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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The Speaker

The Speaker Frederick Blake Jr.

Thank you, Member for Inuvik Boot Lake. Recognition of visitors in the gallery. Member for Yellowknife Centre.

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Julie Green

Julie Green Yellowknife Centre

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I'd like to thank Brad Enge for coming to the Legislative Assembly today to observe our proceedings. And I'd like to say hello to a longtime friend Kelly Ryder who is here as well. Thank you.

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The Speaker

The Speaker Frederick Blake Jr.

Thank you, Member for Yellowknife Centre. Recognition of visitors in the gallery. Member for Nunakput.

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Jackie Jacobson

Jackie Jacobson Nunakput

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Today I'd like to welcome Lieutenant Colonel Kris Udesen, commanding officer of First Canadian Ranger Patrol Group out of here, out of Yellowknife. I want to welcome him to the House and thank him for his service. And I want to welcome former colleagues of ours here in the House, Mr. Speaker. I really miss them. Jackson Lafferty, grand chief, thank you for coming to the House. It's always good to see you. And our former colleague Mike McLeod MP and thank him for all what you guys are doing for the people. And keep up the good work.

And also, Mr. Speaker, I'd like to welcome Sholto Douglas in the House as well, from Fort Smith. Sholto is one of the most knowledgeable dog guys I know and the biggest volunteer for NWT dog sledding where he travels around and helps us in the Delta for timing and being race marshals and stuff like that, for the community, for the communities across the North, you know.

Mr. Speaker, also I really want to welcome to the House one of my closest friends for over 20 years, Mr. Curtis Earhart from Alaska. Curtis came, one of our friends got in a car accident, Mr. Speaker, Brent Beck, and he had nobody to care for his dogs. And Curtis drove 28 hours from Fairbanks, Alaska, on his own dime, to come and help Brent run, train, and for keeping upkeep of his dogs. And Curtis went above and beyond, you know, for that, doing not only training now, then they got on the race circuit. So he went to Minnetonka, Minnesota, and they've been travelling around and doing the southern South Slave dog races. And I just really want to, you know, thank Curtis for what he's done for Brent. And he'd do that for anybody; I know that. And I just want to thank him for what he's done and just let it be known that, you know, it's not going unseen and we thank him. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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The Speaker

The Speaker Frederick Blake Jr.

Thank you, Member for Nunakput. Recognition of visitors in the gallery. Member for Tu Nedhe-Wiilideh.

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Richard Edjericon

Richard Edjericon Tu Nedhe-Wiilideh

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I too would like to recognize Michael McLeod, our MP from the Northwest Territories. I'd like to say welcome. Also I'd like to welcome Jackson Lafferty, the grand chief of the Tlicho region. Mahsi for being here. Also I want to recognize Brad Enge; I think he's in the back. And also, I'd like to recognize Sholto Douglas, and thank you for being here. And also, I want to say thank you to, again, all the translators out of here as well, including Mary Rose Sundberg, Jonas Lafferty, Tommy Unka, Marg Casaway, and our friends who have a Happy Birthday to them. Mahsi, Mr. Speaker.

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The Speaker

The Speaker Frederick Blake Jr.

Thank you, Member for Tu Nedhe-Wiilideh. Recognition of visitors in the gallery. Member for Deh Cho.

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Ronald Bonnetrouge

Ronald Bonnetrouge Deh Cho

Mahsi, Mr. Speaker. I too would like to recognize the Member of Parliament, Mr. Michael McLeod, and welcome him to the House. But this House is my House so he's actually a constituent, Mr. Speaker. And I'd also like to welcome back former colleague, Mr. Jackson Lafferty, who is now the grand chief of the Tlicho Nation. I'd like to congratulate him on that venture and hope him success in many fronts. And I'd also like to recognize Sholto Douglas who is the vice-president of the NWT Sled Dog Sports. I wasn't sure he was a vice-president because he always says he's the boss, so I don't know about that then. I'd also like to recognize Curtis Earhart. My colleague recognized him and advised where he was from and that he is racing with Brent Beck Racing Team. And this weekend too, Fort Smith is hosting a sled dog racing weekend to their carnival. They have one of the largest pools around. And we got ten-dog racing teams and an equal number, if not more, for the six-dog racing, so I wish them well, good luck this weekend in Fort Smith. Mahsi.

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The Speaker

The Speaker Frederick Blake Jr.

Thank you, Member for Deh Cho. Recognition of visitors in the gallery. Member for Great Slave.

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Katrina Nokleby

Katrina Nokleby Great Slave

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. While I'm happy to see all our illustrious people in the gallery, I want to recognize my page Chelsea Sieban who has been here for a couple weeks now, and I just say that after our time in COVID, when we didn't have the pages, it's really great to have them. And this group particularly seems to be really on top of the water glass filling. So thank you very much for that. And Happy Birthday to Lillian. Take care.

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The Speaker

The Speaker Frederick Blake Jr.

Thank you, Member for Great Slave. Recognition of visitors in the gallery. Member for Hay River South.

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Rocky Simpson

Rocky Simpson Hay River South

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Seems like we're at a navy meeting here or something. I'd like to recognize Brad Enge; Michael McLeod, our MP; Mr. Sholto Douglas; and Mr. Jackson Lafferty, grand chief. Welcome. Welcome back home. Thank you.

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The Speaker

The Speaker Frederick Blake Jr.

Thank you, Member for Hay River South. Recognition of visitors in the gallery. Member for Thebacha.

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Frieda Martselos

Frieda Martselos Thebacha

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I too would like to recognize our MP for coming to visit us in this House, and welcome back to Fort Smith any time he wants, because that's where he went to school in the early years. I used to serve him on the line. I also want to welcome Jackson. I congratulate him on his grand chief appointment by all his people. That's a big achievement. And I want to recognize Brad who used to -- is a former Fort Smith resident. And of course Sholto, for all his volunteer work, not only with the dog mushers but Sholto is a great caterer and does incredible meals for the community at many community events. And I want to thank him for that. Thank you, Sholto.

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The Speaker

The Speaker Frederick Blake Jr.

Thank you, Member for Thebacha. Recognition of visitors in the gallery. Honourable Premier.

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Caroline Cochrane

Caroline Cochrane Range Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I also want to recognize our MP Michael McLeod and grand chief Lafferty, two powerful leaders who are strong advocates for the people in the Northwest Territories and I appreciate all the efforts that you do for us. I also want to recognize Brad Enge who is a long-time personal family friend. He's probably -- I think you're older than I am.

And of course I want to recognize Range Lake page Morgan Miller. These are not only important to have in the Legislative Assembly, I'm hoping that many of these pages will become future leaders and carry on the work that we're doing today. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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The Speaker

The Speaker Frederick Blake Jr.

Thank you, Madam Premier. Recognition of visitors in the gallery. Member for Nahendeh.

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Shane Thompson

Shane Thompson Nahendeh

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I'd like to recognize one of the interpreters Mary Jane Cazon, a resident from Fort Simpson. She does a great job, and I thank her for that.

I guess I'm going to jump on the bandwagon here and recognize Michael McLeod, former boss. He was my Minister way back when, so I thank him. I consider him a friend, mentor, and a sounding board in the work that we do for residents of the Northwest Territories. As well to Jackson Lafferty, a friend, mentor, colleague, sounding board, and now he's the grand chief. So welcome to our Assembly. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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The Speaker

The Speaker Frederick Blake Jr.

Thank you, Member for Nahendeh. Recognition of visitors in the gallery. Member for Monfwi.

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Jane Weyallon Armstrong

Jane Weyallon Armstrong Monfwi

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I would like to also acknowledge and recognize our Tlicho grand chief, Jackson Lafferty in the audience. I am happy he moved on to be our grand chief, and I am grateful to be part of this 19th Legislative Assembly. So I am grateful he's -- he is our grand chief. And I would also like to recognize Michael McLeod in the audience and Sholto Douglas who is originally from Behchoko. So I would like to acknowledge and welcome Sholto Douglas as well. Thank you.

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The Speaker

The Speaker Frederick Blake Jr.

Thank you, Member for Monfwi. Recognition of visitors in the gallery. Member for Sahtu.

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Paulie Chinna

Paulie Chinna Sahtu

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I also would like to welcome MP McLeod as well and Tlicho grand chief Jackson Lafferty. And I'd also like to recognize the Sahtu interpreters as well, Sarah Cleary and Theresa Etchinelle. And also the pages from the Sahtu as well, Colby Campbell Modeste and Aidan Widow. Thank you for all your work this week as well too. And also Happy Birthday to Lillian Elias and hello to Sholto Douglas. Mahsi.

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The Speaker

The Speaker Frederick Blake Jr.

Thank you, Member for Sahtu. Recognition of visitors in the gallery. Member for Frame Lake.

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Kevin O'Reilly

Kevin O'Reilly Frame Lake

Merci, Monsieur le President. I think we actually have a rule that we're not only supposed to acknowledge folks that are in our riding but, and I'm not going to pile it on just this one time I will follow the rules, but I acknowledge there's lots of friends in the House today.

I do want to recognize a page, Jaida Deutschmann. I haven't met Jaida, but I think I know her mom and dad. They're great vegetable growers; they've got a greenhouse and so on. And I really appreciate the work that all the pages do for us in this House. Mahsi, Mr. Speaker.

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The Speaker

The Speaker Frederick Blake Jr.

Thank you, Member for Frame Lake. Recognition of visitors in the gallery.

Once again, welcome, Mr. Lafferty, grand chief, former Member. And also Michael McLeod. I'd just like to actually -- you know, colleagues, a lot of times we don't get a chance to thank people until it's too late. But a lot of people don't know, but 12 years ago in August, Michael and also R.C. McLeod encouraged me to run before the 17th Assembly there. And, you know, the jury's still out on that one -- no, I'm just kidding. But I'd just like to thank him and also Robert McLeod. But that wouldn't have happened without my constituents. But, you know, it meant a lot to have those encouraging words. And, you know, a lot of we might not have the confidence to, you know, take on a role such as this but, you know, with encouraging words and also the support of our constituents, we could do anything. And I'd just like to take the time to thank both of them. Also Jackson, I had a lot of fun in the 17th and 18th Assemblies with him, and also part of the 19th. But I'd just like to wish you all well in your leadership endeavors and keep up the good work.

Also if we've missed anyone in the gallery today, welcome to the Chamber and I hope you're enjoying the proceedings. It is always nice to see people in the gallery. Mahsi.

Recognition of visitors in the gallery. Acknowledgements. Oral questions. Member for Yellowknife North.

Rylund Johnson

Rylund Johnson Yellowknife North

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Is the Premier going to listen to the people of the Northwest Territories and get rid of the time change?

The Speaker

The Speaker Frederick Blake Jr.

Thank you, Member for Yellowknife North. Honourable Premier.

Caroline Cochrane

Caroline Cochrane Range Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I do know that it's with the Department of Justice. I know that the Minister is looking into this. There was a survey done. There was a lot of comments. I think that the Member is right; it's important we listen to the people. I also heard the MLA -- one MLA say that he doesn't agree with it, so I hear that. I do think that it's an important question, and I do know that the Minister is looking into it right at this point. I have my own personal opinions but I'm here to support the GNWT, and I will support the Minister. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

The Speaker

The Speaker Frederick Blake Jr.

Thank you, Madam Premier. Oral questions. Member for Yellowknife North. (audio)

Kevin O'Reilly

Kevin O'Reilly Frame Lake

Merci, Monsieur le President. I know the Minister of Environment and Natural Resources just got off an interesting phone call with the Alberta environment Minister, and I'm just wondering if he might be able to provide an update to the House on that conversation? Mahsi, Mr. Speaker.

The Speaker

The Speaker Frederick Blake Jr.

Thank you, Member for Frame Lake. Minister responsible for Environment and Natural Resources.

Shane Thompson

Shane Thompson Nahendeh

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I did take some notes from that meeting so I'm just going to read them here.

Mr. Speaker, we spoke about the importance of sharing water -- our shared water to the NWT residents and the communities. We talked about some of the concerns that residents in the communities have downstream of the oil sands. We spoke about the importance of honouring the commitment of the Bilateral Water Management Agreement. We also spoke about the critical importance of being notified about development that might affect the ecological integrity of our water share. And we spoke about the importance of transparency, information sharing, and the continued need for robust monitoring that is essential for building public trust. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Kevin O'Reilly

Kevin O'Reilly Frame Lake

Merci, Monsieur le President. I want to thank the Minister for that, keeping notes and giving us the update. I'm just wondering if he can tell us whether there was any acknowledgement of noncompliance with the transboundary water agreement or an apology? Mahsi, Mr. Speaker.

Shane Thompson

Shane Thompson Nahendeh

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I can advise you that the Alberta Minister recognized that there was a failure to communicate on the issue. There was a lot of finger pointing through this whole process and I can tell you she just found out this February. So she was similar into the same boat as us there. We talked about working together to improve how we implement the transboundary agreement. Again, it's about the wording and that so we've made that commitment to do that. And we've also committed to have a face-to-face meeting sometime in April, whether it's the 13th or 18th. We're just working on that. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Kevin O'Reilly

Kevin O'Reilly Frame Lake

Merci, Monsieur le President. I want to thank the Minister for that. I think it was yesterday -- maybe it was the day before, I raised the issue of, you know, public engagement on the development of any new tailings discharge regulations, how we've hired consultants, they give us reports, all of that is secret. We don't know what's being said behind closed doors. I know that's a trigger word but I'm just wondering, Mr. Speaker, if this issue of public engagement and the development of these discharge regulations was raised with the Minister in Alberta during the call? Mahsi, Mr. Speaker.

Shane Thompson

Shane Thompson Nahendeh

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I took the heat from the Members on the other side during their business plan and that, and I did bring it forth to raise the concerns with her about the House that development regulations for the release of oil sand tailings need to be transparent and public, and we need to be engaged moving forward. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

The Speaker

The Speaker Frederick Blake Jr.

Thank you, Minister. Oral questions. Final supplementary. Member for Frame Lake.

Kevin O'Reilly

Kevin O'Reilly Frame Lake

Merci, Monsieur le President. I want to thank the Minister for that. I'm just wondering if he can tell us if there's any real concrete outcomes? I understand he's going to meet with the Minister face-to-face in April. That's a good thing. But, you know, did he secure a commitment from the Minister in Alberta that there would be public engagement in the development of these tailings discharge regulations? Mahsi, Mr. Speaker.

Shane Thompson

Shane Thompson Nahendeh

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, the first thing is we made the commitment to do the face-to-face meeting. That's the important part of it. She has also committed to sharing information on the seepage and spills moving forward. So we'll make sure we have a robust process in getting that information to us. They also agreed that the dispute resolution provision of our bilateral agreement is the right tool to resolve the matter and set a plan to avoid this kind of incident in the future so we're doing dispute mechanism. She has agreed to that. She's looking forward to enhancing the transboundary agreement. She sees some hiccups there that we have addressed and that we're moving forward on that. So she's made a commitment. I'm looking forward to meeting with her in April. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

The Speaker

The Speaker Frederick Blake Jr.

Thank you, Minister. Oral questions. Member for Deh Cho.

Ronald Bonnetrouge

Ronald Bonnetrouge Deh Cho

Mahsi, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, my questions are related to my Member's statement on the recent findings of a tailings pond breech at the Alberta tar sands projects. This may well be a common occurrence until there is no more freshwater to drink, no protection of our wildlife, and our precious marine ecological systems to survive.

Madam Premier, can you apprise this House as to what actions you will take to rectify this situation of nonconformity of the sharing of information by the Alberta government? Mahsi.

The Speaker

The Speaker Frederick Blake Jr.

Thank you, Member for Deh Cho. Honourable Premier.

Caroline Cochrane

Caroline Cochrane Range Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I do agree with the Member. In fact, I think all of us probably agree with the Member on that. Water is life. It's important that we make sure that the water that comes into the Northwest Territories is clean. We have a transboundary agreement with the Government of Alberta that they are obligated to notify us. I know that the Minister is actively on this. He has stated earlier, in the questions that were just asked he is in the dispute -- meeting with the Minister in April. I believe he's already had phone calls, many phone calls. And I do know that they are beginning the dispute resolution process. If that does not go okay then I am prepared, as the Premier, to bring it to the -- directly to the Premier of Alberta. This is not okay, and this has to be addressed. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Ronald Bonnetrouge

Ronald Bonnetrouge Deh Cho

Mahsi, Mr. Speaker. And mahsi to the Premier for that information. It has never been okay since the beginning of the tailing ponds. The issue has never been okay there, yet we've been sending a Minister to do the big leader's jobs, to address this issue and I kind of don't like that; she's downplaying it and passing it off to the Ministers.

Mr. Speaker, the position of Premier holds the highest power in this Legislative Assembly and to stand strong on behalf of the residents of the Northwest Territories, as this case may well be, can the Premier extend an invitation to the Alberta Premier to come and meet with the Indigenous leadership of the Northwest Territories to hear their concerns with the tailings ponds and the protection of our waters? Mahsi.

Caroline Cochrane

Caroline Cochrane Range Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I'd like to clarify and state that no, I am not downplaying the issue and I am not passing it off to a Minister. Ministers have jobs. The relationship is direct Minister to Minister, Premier to Premier. And if the Minister does not get through within the next while, then I will be bringing this forward. I would like to give benefit of the doubt to the Alberta Premier. I know that she hasn't been elected for very long. I am hoping, although not foolishly, but I am hoping that she just didn't get the proper briefing, that there is no transboundary agreement with Imperial Oil; the transboundary agreements are between the Alberta government and the Government of the Northwest Territories. So as stated, I will bring this forward if the Minister does not get proper resolution and I'd be more than pleased to invite the Alberta Premier to come meet with the Council of Leaders, the Indigenous governments of the Northwest Territories. I can commit to doing that. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Ronald Bonnetrouge

Ronald Bonnetrouge Deh Cho

Mahsi, Mr. Speaker. And mahsi to the Premier for that. It's very imperative that, you know, I want to reiterate that we need -- as you're the Premier of the Northwest Territories, you're our biggest leader in this government, you need to engage the Alberta Premier who's never met the Indigenous people of the Northwest Territories. And we need to extend that invitation. You can do it how well you want to do that but extend that invitation to meet all Indigenous leaders of the Northwest Territories, not just the Intergovernmental Council, not just the NWT Council of Leaders, but everyone because there's three claimant groups that are excluded from those tables.

Mr. Speaker, the Premier of Alberta mentions the 2015 agreement in which the Alberta government does not need to inform the Government of the Northwest Territories of any spills or leaks because the leaks from the tailing ponds do not reach tributaries nor our drinking water. Yeah well, tell that the residents of the Northwest Territories. Tell that to the people of Fort Chipewyan who have been fighting the Alberta government for decades with no success.

Mr. Speaker, will the Premier approach the Alberta Premier to have frank discussions in redrafting the agreement to honour the voices of our First Nations people in the ultimate protection of our waters? Mahsi.

Caroline Cochrane

Caroline Cochrane Range Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I stated before I have no problem, in fact I think it's a good idea, to invite the Alberta Premier to come to the Northwest Territories to meet with our Indigenous government leaders. Another clarification, Mr. Speaker, the Intergovernmental Council does have some Members that didn't sign on to devolution that are excluded. The Council of Leaders includes all Indigenous governments. Some don't attend but they're more than welcome. If there's any groups that are not part of that that the Member feels should be invited, then I'm more than willing to listen to the Member and invite those Members as well to that. So yes, Mr. Speaker, I do think it's important that these conversations happen. It's not only important, it's critical. And both the Minister is working diligently on this, and if there's no satisfaction then I will be addressing it further. This cannot be acceptable to any of us. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

The Speaker

The Speaker Frederick Blake Jr.

Thank you, Madam Premier. Oral questions. Member for Great Slave.

Katrina Nokleby

Katrina Nokleby Great Slave

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. My questions are for the Minister of Infrastructure. It's my understanding that this week alone there have been two incidents on the exorbitantly overpriced Prohibition Creek Access Road, including the rollover of a tractor-trailer vehicle. This is also the same contractor who cut the fibre optic line in January. Can the Minister provide this House with information on what is happening on this project? Thank you.

The Speaker

The Speaker Frederick Blake Jr.

Thank you, Member for Great Slave. Minister responsible for Infrastructure.

Diane Archie

Diane Archie Inuvik Boot Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, the Member is correct, there was an accident. We had -- we have Workers' Compensation looking into the matter. That's where we're at right now. Thank you.

Katrina Nokleby

Katrina Nokleby Great Slave

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. That's great that WSCC is looking into it, however I'm wondering what the Minister and her department is doing. Does the department have an inspector out on this project regularly ensuring that safety protocols are being followed? Thank you.

Diane Archie

Diane Archie Inuvik Boot Lake

Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, as I mentioned, this is under investigation by the workers -- WSCC so it's really hard for me to comment at this time. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Katrina Nokleby

Katrina Nokleby Great Slave

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I don't really understand why the Minister can't answer about whether or not there's an employee from the Department of Infrastructure that has been out inspecting and watching this project for the last two months, given especially the fact that they cut the fibre optic line, and I still have not seen the locator reports from that time that I asked for ages ago. Thank you.

Diane Archie

Diane Archie Inuvik Boot Lake

Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker. So I do want to first talk about the traffic accident that happened at the Prohibition Creek. So I do want to say that no one was seriously injured at either incident. And we take health and safety very seriously, Mr. Speaker. So the department is undertaking an investigation at the contractor's site, including review of the contractor's health and safety plan as well as the traffic control plan. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

The Speaker

The Speaker Frederick Blake Jr.

Thank you, Minister. Final supplementary. Member for Great Slave.

Katrina Nokleby

Katrina Nokleby Great Slave

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. So, Mr. Speaker, is it safe to say then that this project has been shut down, and if so, how much is this going to cost us, what penalties will be -- have been built into this contract to ensure that these costs are not borne by the people of the Northwest Territories? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Diane Archie

Diane Archie Inuvik Boot Lake

Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, the contractor will resume work at the PCAR location this afternoon. The WSCC has reviewed the incident and has cleared us to proceed. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

The Speaker

The Speaker Frederick Blake Jr.

Thank you, Minister. Oral questions. Member for Inuvik Twin Lakes.

Lesa Semmler

Lesa Semmler Inuvik Twin Lakes

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, my questions are for the Minister of Lands. Can the Minister inform this House on what a rights-based cabin is as this term is something that his department has continued to use. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

The Speaker

The Speaker Frederick Blake Jr.

Thank you, Member for Inuvik Twin Lakes. Minister responsible for Lands.

Shane Thompson

Shane Thompson Nahendeh

First of all, I'd like to thank the Member for the question. We've had this conversation numerous times so I can tell the people of the Northwest Territories she's doing her due diligence in trying to get this information out there.

The department is working with the Indigenous governments and Indigenous organizations to distinguish potential rights-based cabins from unauthorized occupancy and to develop an approach to manage the rights-based cabins on public land. The department will continue the discussions with Indigenous governments and Indigenous organizations that want to engage with us on this work. Engagement started in February and will conclude in August of 2023. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Lesa Semmler

Lesa Semmler Inuvik Twin Lakes

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Can the Minister tell why does the GNWT charge fees for leases to Indigenous people to exercise their right to establish camps on public lands as those camps are directly linked to harvesting? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Shane Thompson

Shane Thompson Nahendeh

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, the department regulates validation and pricing for all public lands. Leases are required where exclusive use of public land is required. Lease rents are charged to have exclusive usage. Indigenous people are encouraged to self-identify with the Department of Lands that they are rights-based land users and within their traditional area if they wish to maintain a camp or a cabin on public land without a tenure. Some Indigenous people prefer to maintain tenure for the benefit associated with such things as exclusive use, being able to sell the improvements and interests in the land or leave it to someone else in the estate. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Lesa Semmler

Lesa Semmler Inuvik Twin Lakes

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. And I thank the Minister for the -- you know, I think what he's saying is something that might affect down here but when I speak to my region, you know, is the GNWT -- is it the GNWT's position that charging fees to Indigenous people for establishing camps is consistent with land claim and treaty rights, because in my Member's statement, Mr. Speaker, I did state in the IFA leases for fees, any type of fees that go along with harvesting, are to be -- there should be no fees. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Shane Thompson

Shane Thompson Nahendeh

Thank you. And, again, I appreciate the Member's passion on this, and we've had this conversation numerous times. Any land claims or treaty rights establish the process for use of public land, and the GNWT follows that claim. So that is our process, and we've been following that. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

The Speaker

The Speaker Frederick Blake Jr.

Thank you, Minister. Final supplementary. Member for Inuvik Twin Lakes.

Lesa Semmler

Lesa Semmler Inuvik Twin Lakes

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, this government has done some great work. Education -- for Indigenous people. Education has, you know, eliminated semesters to -- like, they can go to school longer. You know, the affirmative action is going out, being reviewed for Indigenous employment. So can this Minister commit to pausing all lease fees and collection actions against Indigenous people until a full legal review can be done on this issue because I know, Mr. Speaker, in my -- in my region, I spoke to even one of the leaders today, are -- you know, is that -- and this is not happening, we're not listening, and so this need to stop until there's a good legal review. So will this Minister commit to that? Thank you.

Shane Thompson

Shane Thompson Nahendeh

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, as stated earlier, we have several processes underway working with Indigenous governments, including regulations for the Public Land Act. Until those processes are completed, the GNWT will continue to lease land in accordance with our Act and regulations. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

The Speaker

The Speaker Frederick Blake Jr.

Thank you, Minister. Oral questions. Member for Tu Nedhe-Wiilideh.

Richard Edjericon

Richard Edjericon Tu Nedhe-Wiilideh

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. All day schools and residential schools were transferred to the GNWT on April 1st, 1969. During the 1969 school year, there were 10,291 students, 541 teachers, in the Northwest Territories, including Nunavut. This jurisdiction change did not result in change in management, and the Catholic Church and the Anglican Church continued to operate each school year under a contract. And their intentions remained the same: The extinguishment of the culture and traditional way of life of Indigenous people.

The federal government has acknowledged this harm for students prior to 1969 and provided compensation from anywhere from $10,000 to $200,000. This compensation should be identical after 1969.

Mr. Speaker, I want to ask the question to the Premier of the Northwest Territories, and I brought this to her attention a couple times already, and I just wanted to ask what steps has the Premier taken to address the GNWT's role in the day school program to make amends for the harms done and compensate for survivors after 1969? Thank you.

The Speaker

The Speaker Frederick Blake Jr.

Thank you, Member for Tu Nedhe-Wiilideh. Honourable Premier.

Caroline Cochrane

Caroline Cochrane Range Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, the GNWT is not a party to the class action suits that are going on with the federal government; therefore, we don't have a direct role in the litigation that's happening. However, ECE has worked with students who have come forward to get their historical records. We've also provided letters in support for students that might have missing or incorrect personal information. And I do encourage that any residential school survivor to visit the indiandayschools.com to find more information on what's happening with these class actions. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Richard Edjericon

Richard Edjericon Tu Nedhe-Wiilideh

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. The territorial government was born in 1967. Two years later, the Indian Federal Day School of Canada transferred that responsibility to the GNWT. And I understand what the Premier's saying that the GNWT's not part of the federal class action lawsuit prior to 1969. But after 1969, the abuse continued to happen to this day. So, again, is the government aware of the total number of days -- day home survivors in the Northwest Territories after 1969? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Caroline Cochrane

Caroline Cochrane Range Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I don't have on hand the information related to the number of residents who attended -- who were students in the Indian day schools on hand and how many of those were Indigenous versus Caucasian. I mean, there was also Caucasian people that went to the schools after that time. However, as stated, we're working closely with any students that need supports and we're trying to offer as many supports as possible to people that are facing intergenerational trauma. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Richard Edjericon

Richard Edjericon Tu Nedhe-Wiilideh

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, the scars of intergenerational trauma caused by residential day school continues in the present confining many Indigenous people to addiction, poor mental health, poverty. The day school program in particular has not been properly resolved and compensation is needed. Will the Premier ensure the day school survivors are compensated for trauma they suffered through day schools, in all the schools in the Northwest Territories, including my riding and also in the Tlicho region? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Caroline Cochrane

Caroline Cochrane Range Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. We try to support students, as many as possible, as they come forward. I do want to say, Mr. Speaker, that I recognize the trauma, the intergenerational trauma that's happened from colonization from the beginning, residential school as well. And not only those two but just the ongoing societal judgements that are put on Indigenous people. And so I do think that we have a responsibility to try to make sure that the health and wellness of our residents is taken care of. We're trying our best. We have many programs to support people with mental health, trauma. But we can't do it alone, Mr. Speaker. And so from the beginning of this government, I've tried to focus as much efforts as possible with working with Indigenous governments. That's why we formed the Council of Leaders. And I think that it's important that we work with the Council of Leaders as we go forward to address the intergenerational trauma. And it's not going to be something that will be addressed -- fixed in this government. It took decades of abuse that happened to Indigenous people to get where we are today and it will probably take -- hopefully not, but as long to deal with the trauma. So I will do my part, Mr. Speaker. Thank you.

Richard Edjericon

Richard Edjericon Tu Nedhe-Wiilideh

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. And thank you, Premier, for your answers. And I know this is a very sensitive subject, and it hits home to everybody here in the Northwest Territories. And I'm also probably one of those survivors as well. So, you know, we -- I guess going forward, we need to really start looking as to how we're going to start dealing with this issue as a government and start looking at how we're going to address these outstanding issues with survivors after 1969. So I'm -- will the Premier work with her -- also with her counterparts in Nunavut to ensure that all students receive adequate compensation for their time in day schools regardless of jurisdiction? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Caroline Cochrane

Caroline Cochrane Range Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. We work with the northern territories, the Yukon and Nunavut, whenever possible. There's always strength in numbers; we realize that. I can make a commitment to the Member that I will bring this topic to the Premier of Nunavut, and that I can commit to. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

The Speaker

The Speaker Frederick Blake Jr.

Thank you, Madam Premier. Oral questions. Member for Hay River South.

Rocky Simpson

Rocky Simpson Hay River South

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, can the Premier confirm when the business plan for the Hay River Harbour remediation went into the federal government? Thank you.

The Speaker

The Speaker Frederick Blake Jr.

Thank you, Member for Hay River South. Madam Premier.

Caroline Cochrane

Caroline Cochrane Range Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. An application was submitted under the Oceans Protection Plan for the Hay River Harbour restoration on February 17th, 2023, and the Minister of Infrastructure is seeking $35 million over four years under this program. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Rocky Simpson

Rocky Simpson Hay River South

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Can the Premier confirm if it was just the one department, or did it go to any other departments in the federal government? Thank you.

Caroline Cochrane

Caroline Cochrane Range Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. This was submitted to Transport Canada. Discussions have also been ongoing with CIRNAC regarding this project. Infrastructure continues to lobby the federal government and to stress the importance of this marine hub, including the action needed to reduce risk to equipment and the environment, avoid the interruption of the essential resupply activities, and maintain safe and secure commercial marine shipping operations in the Northwest Territories. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Rocky Simpson

Rocky Simpson Hay River South

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I just got to run over and his questions.

Mr. Speaker, can the Premier confirm if any support for the application is requested from communities, Indigenous governments, businesses, or industry who rely on the services of MTS? Thank you.

Caroline Cochrane

Caroline Cochrane Range Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I'd be okay if he ran over and got the questions because I got the answers from the Minister of Infrastructure, so. Yes, we have requested letters of support from several groups to attach to the application. We're still able to accept any letters of support, if any other groups want to extend their support for our funding application. This pertains -- it impacts a lot of people, and so the more letters of support we have the more likely that we'll be successful in our lobbying. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

The Speaker

The Speaker Frederick Blake Jr.

Thank you, Madam Premier. Final supplementary. Member for Hay River South.

Rocky Simpson

Rocky Simpson Hay River South

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I was hoping that when I saw Mr. McLeod up in the audience there that he actually had a cheque for this project. But I see he's ran away.

Mr. Speaker, has application for permits required to remove silt from the channel in the harbour been submitted for approval, and if so, when can we expect to hear a response or approval for that? Thank you.

Caroline Cochrane

Caroline Cochrane Range Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. The Department of Infrastructure is in the engagement process right now and expected to submit the applications at the end of March. They're also in the process of engaging the federal government for funding support while the work proceeds on the regulation and permitting. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

The Speaker

The Speaker Frederick Blake Jr.

Thank you, Madam Premier. Oral questions. Written questions. Returns to written questions. Mr. Clerk.

Clerk Of The House Mr. Tim Mercer

Mr. Speaker, I have a Return to Written Question 59-19(2) asked by the Member for Deh Cho on February 16th, 2023, to the Minister of Health and Social Services regarding Health Care in Small Communities.

Audits conducted in the Northwest Territories Health and Social Services Authority, including the Deh Cho region, assess how a health service is administered. The audit process consists of an assessment of appropriate documentation in an individual's file, confirming that follow-up recommendation for the specific concern is documented and followed, and is compliant with the expected service standard. In addition, separate and specific audits are conducted to ensure information is transferred between health care providers or that medication information is documented and confirmed in accordance with the relevant policy.

For 2023-2024, Northwest Territories Health and Social Services Authority will begin a new cycle to review and implement audits for the core health services delivered to health centres and health cabins.

Patient satisfaction information is collected through a survey conducted across the territory. The most recent survey was concluded in 2022 and the report was released January 2023. Information is collected for health centres in small communities, however due to the small numbers of responses for certain questions, reporting is a detailed breakdown is not available for certain communities. The 2022 NWT Patient Experience Report can be found on the Department of Health and Social Services website. A standardized approach to audits was initiated in 2019 however this work was impacted during the pandemic due to limited capacity. Current audits are focused on reviewing the delivery of the diabetes prevention and management program.

Recent analysis of audited data from October to December 2022, for the Deh Cho region provides a baseline for future comparison. The data set was analyzed by community, as well as for the region, and currently demonstrates consistency with other regions. Trends identified in the audits will inform improvements into the delivery of services related to diabetes prevention and management.

Audits of service or program delivery are not the process to assess misdiagnosis. Investigation of a case of misdiagnosis is done through the quality review process that looks at an individual's experience with a disease diagnosis.

In cases when a diagnosis is provided in a manner that is inconsistent with a practice standard, or the person receives an incorrect, partial, no diagnosis, or did not experience receiving the information about their diagnosis in a safe manner, then a report by the person should be filed. The reported mishandling of an individual's case can be made to a health care provider or a manager within the health and social services system, the regulatory body of the health care provider, or with the Office of Client Experience. Each reported concern or complaint received by the Office of Client Experience is thoroughly reviewed.

Additionally, the reports are collectively reviewed at regular intervals to identify trends for further investigation and action.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

The Speaker

The Speaker Frederick Blake Jr.

Thank you, Mr. Clerk. Returns to written questions. Replies to the Commissioner's address. Petitions. Reports of committees on the review of bills. Reports of standing and special committees. Member for Kam Lake.

Caitlin Cleveland

Caitlin Cleveland Kam Lake

Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker. Your Standing Committee on Social Development is pleased to provide its Report on Bill 68: An Act to Amend the Child Day Care Act and commends it to the House.

Executive Summary

Bill 68: An Act to Amend the Child Day Care Act, sponsored by the Department of Education, Culture and Employment was referred to the Standing Committee on Social Development for review on November 3, 2022.

Committee thanks everyone who came forward in person and in written submissions for their time and candid comments. Committee appreciated the favourable response to a number of the motions and the willingness of ECE to work with us. Committee members believe the motions passed during the committee's clause by clause improved the bill. Committee accepted the new legislation with some proposed changes; one motion moved by committee was not concurred with, therefore, that amendment was not made and committee may address this concern during deliberations in Committee of the Whole or at third reading of Bill 68.

Bill 68 does not address the existing challenges of the NWT's early learning and child care sector or fix the damaged relationship between the sector and government. It does, however, put in place necessary basic rules, such as a certification process for educators, and allows the NWT to catch up with the other jurisdictions in this sector.

The Narrow Scope of Bill 68

Committee was disappointed when seeing Bill 68. This bill presents a missed opportunity to renew the NWT's early learning and child care system and provide guidance toward the system that considers the diverse needs of the NWT environment and includes all parties. Bill 68 offers a narrow scope for amendment, with the areas open for change being limited and dispersed throughout the Act. The bill changes small sections here and there in the Act, and committee was not able to propose any whole-scale amendments. Committee finds this narrow approach another missed opportunity.

A Crisis in Trust and Relationship

Committee sees serious issues with the confidence in ECE rolling out this program. Many people think that making day care more affordable is a good thing. But how ECE has done it has created more problems. Committee did review Bill 68. This bill will not fix the damaged relationships.

It appears that the GNWT left child care operators exasperated and feeling cornered after lacking to show the intent to collaborate with child care operators from the beginning and insufficiently communicating the GNWT's larger vision of child care.

Committee finds that the GNWT showed a lack of comprehension regarding the seriousness and comprehensiveness of the issues created by forcing a fast start to the transition of the territories' child care system.

Members heard from child care providers that they have lost trust in the GNWT to responsibly guide the transition, providers sense a misjudgment in the real issues and perceive a bias in looking at provider-client relationships.

Recommendation 1: The Standing Committee on Social Development recommends that the GNWT:

  1. Form an advisory group including representation from all parties.
  2. Review the 2030 Early Learning and Child Care Strategy on the inclusion of child care operators in goals and vision.
  3. Establish and share an NWT vision and mission of early learning and child care sector, including principles and explaining where the federal child care agreements fit, requiring five-year reviews to check if NWT is fulfilling its vision.
  4. Conduct an independent review of the roll out of the Early Learning and Child Day Care Agreement.
  5. Conduct an independent review of the Child Day Care Act.
  6. Address the crisis of confidence by reconciling with the NWT ELCC sector and starting with:
  • Improving communication by increasing responsiveness to clients and establishing client service standards; and
  • Committing to explaining processes to the public before implementation, providing plain language materials and designating communication channels for operators to access ECE specialists and information.

On Complaints and Appeals

Bill 68 introduces a new section on complaints giving parents the right to file a complaint and enabling the director to investigate the complaint. Committee understands that ECE's policy intent is to allow complaints to protect the rights of families. Committee deliberated on the circumstances where the director may refuse to investigate, and on allowing disclosure of the complainant, termination of a contract, and the right to appeal.

Currently, the director has no guidance on when to refuse to investigate a complaint. Committee thought that it was important to clarify when the director may refuse to investigate.

Committee proposed adding clarity to the complaints process by way of Motion 1, adding a paragraph allowing the director to refuse to investigate a complaint if the complaint is trivial, frivolous, vexatious, or made in bad faith.

Recommendation 2: The Standing Committee on Social Development recommends that ECE improve and provide clarity on how a person may complain about an organization's service to the public by:

  1. Providing guidance material for the complaints process to support parents and staff; and,
  2. Developing a policy on the complaints process.

Recommendation 3: The Standing Committee on Social Development recommends that the GNWT:

  • Provide investigative training to all staff involved in the complaints and appeals processes.
  • Make this training obligatory for all staff involved.
  • Build competence by ensuring that investigations are not vexatious and are appropriately carried out.

Complaints and Retaliation

Committee heard about cases where the relationships between child care operators and parents progressed to disrepair. In such situations of a bad fit, prolonging such an unproductive relationship would be undesirable. To prohibit that in such case contract termination is interpreted as retaliation, committee found it necessary to clarify that to prohibit retaliation does not prevent contract termination.

Committee proposed Motion 3, expressing that nothing can prevent an operator from terminating a contract under the terms of that contract. Should the operator do that, it would not constitute retaliation for the purposes of the Act. The Minister concurred with the Motion.

Recommendation 4: The Standing Committee on Social Development recommends that the GNWT ensures that administrative decisions are reasonable by considering the outcome of decisions and the process to come to that decisions.

Appeals Process

Committee has reservations about the appeals process as it is designated in the Act, as appeals are currently limited to the licensing processes. Members were generally of the view that the complaints process and the appeal process could use a review, given the expanded scope of the GNWT's role in early child education and as a result of the agreement with Canada. Given that this task is partially outside the scope of Bill 68 and would require significant policy work to see how these issues are handled in other jurisdictions, committee makes the following recommendation:

Recommendation 5: The Standing Committee on Social Development recommends that the GNWT review the appeals process in the Child Day Care Act,

a) in the short term with a view to:

  1. Identify and make improvements to make sure that the Act clearly outlines how appeals can be requested and considered;
  2. Clarify how complaints and appeal processes are distinguished in the Act; and,
  3. Recommend how administrative decisions are made fairly, consistently, and in accordance with the legislation.

b) In the long term with the view to:

  1. Fully review the appeals section;
  2. Include comparison with other jurisdictions; and,
  3. Result in a modernized appeal section.

Considering the Costs of Child Care

While the GNWT does not provide child care services, it is even more critical that policy development considers the supply and cost of child care and addresses the provision of child care to make it sustainable. The committee determined that it would be paramount for the Minister to commit to supporting the sustainability of child care and put forward the obligation for the Minister to consider costs in Motion 4. The Minister of ECE concurred.

Recommendation 6: The Standing Committee on Social Development recommends the GNWT include in its vision of a sustainable child care system information on the following:

  • How to support the ELCC sector in its transition.
  • How to embrace NWT realities without disadvantaging any of the existing parts of the child care sector.
  • Considerations for licensing and supporting that proportion of the child care sector constituted by for-profit day homes.

Understanding the Needs of the Child Care Sector

Repeatedly, committee heard that the funding provided by the GNWT for child care is insufficient. In communication with committee, ECE expressed it is committed to working with licensed programs to support sustainability and growth throughout the system. However, committee sees a pressing need for the GNWT and ECE to act to prevent losing child care spaces in the NWT and makes the following recommendation:

Recommendation 7: The Standing Committee on Social Development recommends the GNWT recognize that the actions started under the federal agreement have initiated systems change in the NWT Early Learning and child care sector and require immediate action by the GNWT to reduce the volatility that may unfold;

And further,

Identify shortfalls in funding targets outside of the federal agreement, focused on NWT needs, including but not limited to:

  • Capital and operating funding allocations;
  • Incentive loans for new buildings and retrofits;
  • Campaign action attracting potential child care educators;
  • Bonus for child care certificate completions; and,
  • Strategies to support professional development for ELCC workers to allow training without impacting existing work schedules.

Getting Regulations Right

Bill 68 adds many regulations to the existing legislation. Committee wanted to see a duty on the Minister to engage the child care operators in developing the regulations, specifically on fees and wages. Committee welcomed the department's intent to consult and prepared a motion placing an obligation on ECE to consult on all regulations, not just those that the committee had identified as having a financial impact.

Motion 5 obliges the Minister to provide a copy of the proposed regulations to child care operators to ensure reasonable time for feedback and consider the feedback in the regulations. The Minister concurred with this motion.

Committee sees the review requirement of regulations as a solid opportunity for ECE to be inclusive and show flexibility when considering the feedback received.

Recommendation 8: The Standing Committee on Social Development recommends the GNWT view the obligation to consult on regulations as an opportunity for innovation, inclusiveness, flexibility and reconciliation and be open to considering detailed feedback.

Privacy

Committee took the position that it is necessary to create an environment of certainty and clarity and ensure privacy protection for parents and children. The determination was made that ECE should have a privacy impact assessment conducted after drafting the regulations and before the regulations go into the public review phase.

Committee proposed Motion 6, requiring the Minister to ensure compliance with section 42.1 of the Access to Information and Privacy Act before recommending regulations. The Minister concurred with this motion.

Measures Increasing the Number of Child Care Places

All submissions pointed to insufficient child care spaces in the NWT. Presenters spoke about 300 and 400 children being on waitlists in licensed child care centres in Yellowknife. The need for spaces outnumbers licensed space in the regional centres. In the NWT overall, thirteen communities are without licensed child care facilities. Committee finds the situation alarming and urges the GNWT to respond to the need and investigate innovative options for creating child care spots without additional costs.

Recommendation 9: The Standing Committee on Social Development urges the GNWT to be innovative and identify options for increasing child day care spots at no or little costs, including, but not limited to:

  • Changing the ratio of educators to children under two years of age by reducing the age of the infant category to children under 18 months of age. This would create additional spaces for children 18 months and older.
  • Completing negotiations with NWT Housing to allow licensed child care to operate in public housing.
  • Creating subgroups or sublicenses to allow child care centres, school-based child care, and child care offered in homes to offer licensed spaces.
  • Create substitute lists or licensing to backfill so that if one educator gets sick, not all six kids must stay home.
  • Create additional lists or licensing to enable before- and after- school day care, including evening care, so that educators who have time can take additional hours.

Conclusion

Recommendation 10: The Standing Committee on Social Development recommends that the GNWT provide a response to the recommendations contained in this report within 120 days. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

The Speaker

The Speaker Frederick Blake Jr.

Thank you, Member for Kam Lake. The motion is in order. To the motion?

Some Hon. Members

Question.

The Speaker

The Speaker Frederick Blake Jr.

Question has been called. All those in favour? All those opposed? Any abstentions? The motion is carried. The committee report has been received and adopted by the Assembly.

---Carried

Reports of standing and special -- oh, Member for Kam Lake.

Caitlin Cleveland

Caitlin Cleveland Kam Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I move, seconded by the honourable Member for Great Slave, that Committee Report 48-19(2), Standing Committee on Social Development Report on Bill 68: An Act to Amend the Child Day Care Act, be deemed read and printed in Hansard in its entirety. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

The Speaker

The Speaker Frederick Blake Jr.

Thank you, Member for Kam Lake. The motion is in order. To the motion?

Some Hon. Members

Question.

The Speaker

The Speaker Frederick Blake Jr.

Question has been called. All those in favour? All those opposed? Any abstentions? The motion is carried. The report is deemed read ---

---Carried

Link to Committee Report 48-19(2)

Member for Kam Lake.

Caitlin Cleveland

Caitlin Cleveland Kam Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I move, seconded by the Member for Great Slave, that Committee Report 48-19(2), Standing Committee on Social Development Report on Bill 68: An Act to Amend the Child Day Care Act, be received by the Assembly and referred to the Committee of the Whole. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

The Speaker

The Speaker Frederick Blake Jr.

Thank you, Member for Kam Lake. The motion is in order. To the motion?

Some Hon. Members

Question.

The Speaker

The Speaker Frederick Blake Jr.

Question has been called. All those in favour? All those opposed? Any abstentions? The motion is carried. The committee report has been received and will be moved into the Committee of the Whole for further consideration later today. Thank you.

---Carried

Reports of standing and special committees. Tabling of documents. Minister responsible for Environment and Natural Resources.

Shane Thompson

Shane Thompson Nahendeh

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I wish to table the following three documents: Plain Language Summary for Bill 74, Forest Act; Letter to Alberta Minister of Environment and Protected Areas Information dated March 7, 2023, regarding Information Sharing and Notification: Spills at Kearl Mine Site; and,
Letter to Federal Minister of Environment and Climate Change dated March 7, 2023, regarding Information Sharing and Notification: Spills at Kearl Mine Site. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

The Speaker

The Speaker Frederick Blake Jr.

Thank you, Minister. Tabling of documents. Minister responsible for Finance.

Caroline Wawzonek

Caroline Wawzonek Yellowknife South

Mr. Speaker, I wish to table the following two documents: Plain Language Summary for Bill 75, Council for Women and Gender Diversity
Act; and, Government of the Northwest Territories Response to Committee Report 45-19(2), Report on the Review of Bill 60: An Act to Amend the Petroleum Products and Carbon Tax Act. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

The Speaker

The Speaker Frederick Blake Jr.

Thank you, Minister. Tabling of documents. Member for Kam Lake.

Caitlin Cleveland

Caitlin Cleveland Kam Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I wish to table a document the Pharmacists' Scope of Practice in Canada from the Canadian Pharmacists Association. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

The Speaker

The Speaker Frederick Blake Jr.

Thank you, Member for Kam Lake. Tabling of documents. Notices of motion. Member for Inuvik Twin Lakes.

Lesa Semmler

Lesa Semmler Inuvik Twin Lakes

Mr. Speaker, I give notice that on Tuesday, March 28th, 2023, I will move the following motion:

Now therefore I move, seconded by the honourable Member for Yellowknife North, that this Legislative Assembly calls upon the Government of the Northwest Territories to forgive and pause the collection of current and new lease payments and fees of all Indigenous cabin leaseholders immediately;

And further, that the Government of the Northwest Territories complete a review of cabin and recreational leases to ensure that there is no infringement of Indigenous rights through the collection of taxes and fees;

And furthermore, the Government of the Northwest Territories develop a more consistent land use policy that are representative of completed land resource and self-government agreements and ongoing land resource and self-agreement negotiations;

And furthermore, the Government of the Northwest Territories provide a response to this motion within 120 days. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

The Speaker

The Speaker Frederick Blake Jr.

Thank you, Member for Inuvik Twin Lakes. Notices of motion. Colleagues, we will return after a short recess.

---SHORT RECESS

The Speaker

The Speaker Frederick Blake Jr.

Okay, let us continue, Members. Motions. Member for Great Slave.

Katrina Nokleby

Katrina Nokleby Great Slave

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker,

WHEREAS adequate and affordable housing is the most important concern of many Northerners;

AND WHEREAS without adequate, affordable, and accessible housing, individuals and families lack the basis for healthy living, successful educational participation, security of employment, and participation as full members in the economies, health, and development of our communities;

AND WHEREAS excessive and unexpected rental increases in private rental units can result in debilitating rents, especially upon low-income earners;

AND WHEREAS renters require protection and support against high costs of living for inadequate lodging circumstances;

AND WHEREAS the low vacancy rate indicates strong rental market demand and puts upward pressure on rental prices;

AND WHEREAS the Northwest Territories Residential Tenancies Act does not include a mechanism which dictates how much a landlord can increase their rent, only how often that rent increase can occur.

NOW THEREFORE I MOVE, seconded by the honourable Member for Frame Lake, that this Legislative Assembly recommends that the Government of the Northwest Territories update the Northwest Territories Residential Tenancies Act to include maximum allowable rent adjustments which are no more than the five-year average of the Canada Consumer Price Index;

AND FURTHER, the Government include in the Northwest Territories Residential Tenancies Act that increases to rent above the five-year average of the Canada Consumer Price Index can be applied for by private landlords to the Northwest Territories' rental officer;

AND FURTHER, the Government of the Northwest Territories provide a response to this motion within 120 days. And I will request a recorded vote, Mr. Speaker. Thank you.

The Speaker

The Speaker Frederick Blake Jr.

Thank you, Member for Great Slave. The motion is in order. To the motion. Member for Great Slave.

Katrina Nokleby

Katrina Nokleby Great Slave

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I think that my motion is pretty self-explanatory. Over the last while we have seen an increase in rents in our market here in Yellowknife, and in some cases as much as 46 percent people's rent has increased in one month. We do not currently, as I stated, have any parameters or measures in place in the Residential Tenancies Act to protect renters against high increases to their rent. Only we limit the amount of times or when the landlords can actually bring those increases forward.

As part of this motion, I did look at a jurisdictional scan, Mr. Speaker, of different territories, different provinces, and what they're doing. Currently there are six jurisdictions that have maximum allowable rent increases, which is British Columbia, Manitoba, Ontario, PEI, Nova Scotia, and the Yukon. There are two that have jurisdictions with recommended maximum of allowable rent increases, but this is not in force, and that's in Quebec and New Brunswick. And then there are five left that don't have any limitations to the amount of the rent increase, which includes the Northwest Territories, Nunavut, Alberta, Saskatchewan, and Newfoundland and Labrador.

Mr. Speaker, why I think that this is so important to do is that given the very, very low vacancy rate right now in our territory for the rental market, private rental units, it leaves our residents vulnerable. As we can see, it's very apparent to large landlords that they can just come in and increase the rent in the apartment without doing any upgrades and sometimes not even providing any heat to the people living in the apartments. I think it sets a dangerous precedent if we don't do anything now to stop this because there's nothing that's going to stop large REITs, like Northview, from deciding that they don't want to rent to low income families and instead would rather rent to the professionals and the students that may be moving north in the next while. We need these people as well but, in this case, it's going to be on the backs of our vulnerable people. So therefore, Mr. Speaker, I think it's very important that we set this precedent now, and I welcome the debate from my colleagues. Thank you.

The Speaker

The Speaker Frederick Blake Jr.

Thank you, Member for Great Slave. The motion is in order. To the motion. Member for Frame Lake.

Kevin O'Reilly

Kevin O'Reilly Frame Lake

Merci, Monsieur le President. I want to thank the mover for the work on this motion. I think we need to have this discussion and debate, Mr. Speaker. This is one of the tools that we can have in our arsenal to try to prevent homelessness, and I think we need -- as I said, we need to have this discussion and debate.

You know, if you look at the motion, this is a request for this issue to be examined. We're going to hear from the government side about this. And of course if the government is not prepared to take action, it might be the subject of a potential private Member's bill at some point. But I do think we need to have this discussion and debate. And I look forward to the response from the government on this. I will be supporting the motion. Mahsi, Mr. Speaker.

The Speaker

The Speaker Frederick Blake Jr.

Thank you, Member for Frame Lake. The motion is in order. To the motion. Member for Tu Nedhe-Wiilideh.

Richard Edjericon

Richard Edjericon Tu Nedhe-Wiilideh

Yeah, thank you, Mr. Speaker. And I too support this motion. You know, we've been -- housing's a big issue here in the Northwest Territories. And, you know, in my riding in particular, you know, it's to the point where I even have to put documents and everything else on the floor here just to finally get any action. And we already know that there's big problem -- we actually have a housing crisis here in the Northwest Territories. We have no plan. When I take a look at what Nunavut's doing, when we take a look at what, you know, our -- the way we handle housing here in the Northwest Territories and we're still -- we're still a shortage of public housing in our communities. You know, and we -- again, we got no new construction in our communities for a very long time. And so what's going on now I'm dealing with -- I also tabled documents in this House about my -- some of my constituents having cockroaches and all that stuff running around their units. It's -- you know, and yet the landlords don't do anything. You know, and I'm really concerned about that. So,

Yes, you know, this -- some of the leases we also have, they're month-to-month leases. You know, and when you do that, and it gives an opportunity for the landlord to increase their rent any time they want. And so we can't manage this so we need to have a mechanism, a tool in our tool chest, to say that this is something that we could use to manage that. So, Mr. Speaker, I do support the motion. Thank you.

The Speaker

The Speaker Frederick Blake Jr.

Thank you, Member for Tu Nedhe-Wiilideh. The motion is in order. To the motion. Member for Kam Lake.

Caitlin Cleveland

Caitlin Cleveland Kam Lake

Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I appreciate the motion brought forward by my colleague from Great Slave, and I also appreciate the work that was put into the jurisdictional scan so that we know what the rest of Canada looks like. Canadian jurisdictions are quite obviously split as far as rent increase caps are concerned, but our sister territory to the west, Yukon, does allow a buffer against the impacts of high inflation as measured by CPI but this is to a maximum of 5 percent.

Mr. Speaker, I understand a need for certainty, but this also needs to be balanced with the sustainability of the housing sector and availability of more developers to get involved. Landlords cannot be left footing the bill when inflation exceeds the rent cap and developers and landlords also need to be able, Mr. Speaker, to keep rents affordable but need a mechanism to address unexpected expenses like a broken furnace, boiler, if flooding occurs. Things happen, and those things need to be able to be addressed, Mr. Speaker.

I also want to ensure that the housing co-ops, which are provided at cost, can continue to be responsive to what the cost actually is and continue to operate. Kam Lake is lucky to have two housing co-ops, and I think the North would benefit from having more housing opportunities like that.

There's other ways the GNWT can also play a role in ensuring that rents don't go through the roof and that affordable housing exists outside of the department of housing. And those roles are things like addressing the funding gap, increasing availability of land, dealing with the affordability of energy, addressing supply chain challenges and the cost of goods, especially in our small communities, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Speaker, I will be supporting this motion today because it simply asks the government to explore the balance between affordable housing and, importantly, sustaining the industry for developers. But there is a need, in my opinion, for exceptions to these rules and for escape clauses that acknowledge the cost of maintaining infrastructure in the Northwest Territories. And I really want to highlight that, that we don't want to end up with no one willing to enter the housing game because there's no certainty in them actually being able to recoup the cost of being part of that community and that industry that we very much need. Thank you.

The Speaker

The Speaker Frederick Blake Jr.

Thank you, Member for Kam Lake. The motion is in order. To the motion. Acting Government House Leader.

Shane Thompson

Shane Thompson Nahendeh

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, as this motion contains the recommendations to the government, Cabinet will be abstaining. We look forward to reviewing the recommendation and providing a full response within 120 days. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

The Speaker

The Speaker Frederick Blake Jr.

Thank you, Minister. The motion is in order. To the motion.

Some Hon. Members

Question.

The Speaker

The Speaker Frederick Blake Jr.

Question has been called. Member for Great Slave. To closing debate.

Katrina Nokleby

Katrina Nokleby Great Slave

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. My first motion, so still learning how it call works. I want to thank my colleagues for being a lot more eloquent than I was in explaining some of the rationale around why this is needed. And, really, the intent is not to kneecap the landlords, or particularly not the small landlords. I really want them to feel that, you know, that they're supported and they're really needed in our territory and that is why, at my colleague's suggestion, that we did include the piece around the potential to apply to the rental office for an increase.

Mostly, Mr. Speaker, I just wanted to get the dialogue started. I wanted the territory's residents to understand and know that their leadership is listening to them and that we hear them and that we do understand that the cost of living is becoming quite unbearable. Mr. Speaker, I was at the store yesterday and the cat food's gone up $4 a bag. So everywhere you look and turn, things are getting more expensive. So I appreciate my colleague's support on this. Thank you.

The Speaker

The Speaker Frederick Blake Jr.

Thank you, Member for Great Slave. The motion is in order. To the motion. The Member's requested a recorded vote. All those in favour, please rise.

Recorded Vote
Motions

Page 5839

Clerk Of The House Mr. Tim Mercer

Member for Great Slave. The Member for Inuvik Twin Lakes. The Member for Deh Cho. The Member for Kam Lake. The Member for Frame Lake. The Member for Nunakput. The Member for Yellowknife North. The Member for Tu Nedhe-Wiilideh. The Member for Monfwi.

Recorded Vote
Motions

Page 5839

The Speaker

The Speaker Frederick Blake Jr.

All those opposed, please rise. All those abstaining, please rise.

Recorded Vote
Motions

Page 5839

Clerk Of The House Mr. Tim Mercer

The Member for Nahendeh. The Member for Yellowknife South. The Member for Sahtu. The Member for Range Lake. The Member for Inuvik Boot Lake. The Member for Yellowknife Centre.

Recorded Vote
Motions

Page 5839

The Speaker

The Speaker Frederick Blake Jr.

The results of the recorded vote: Nine in favour, zero opposed, six abstentions. The motion is carried.

---Carried

Motions. Member for Frame Lake.

Kevin O'Reilly

Kevin O'Reilly Frame Lake

Merci, Monsieur le President.

I MOVE, second by the honourable Member for Nahendeh, that when this House adjourns on Thursday, March 9th, 2023, it shall be adjourned until Monday, March 27th, 2023;

AND FURTHMORE, at any time prior to March 27th, 2023, if the Speaker is satisfied, after consultation with the Executive Council and Members of the Legislative Assembly, the public interest requires that the House should meet at an earlier date, earlier time during the adjournment, or at a time later than the scheduled resumption of the House, the Speaker may give notice and thereupon the House shall meet at the time stated in such notice and shall transact its business as if it had been duly adjourned to that time. Mahsi, Mr. Speaker.

The Speaker

The Speaker Frederick Blake Jr.

Thank you, Member for Frame Lake. The motion is in order. To the motion.

Some Hon. Members

Question.

The Speaker

The Speaker Frederick Blake Jr.

Question has been called. All those in favour? All those opposed? Any abstentions? The motion is carried.

---Carried

Motions. Notices of motion for the first reading of bills. Minister responsible for Health and Social Services.

Bill 77: Nursing Profession Act
Notices Of Motion For The First Reading Of Bills

Page 5840

Julie Green

Julie Green Yellowknife Centre

Mr. Speaker, I give notice that on Tuesday, March 28th, 2023, I will present Bill 77, Nursing Profession Act, to be read for the first time. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Bill 77: Nursing Profession Act
Notices Of Motion For The First Reading Of Bills

Page 5840

The Speaker

The Speaker Frederick Blake Jr.

Thank you, Minister. Notices of motion for the first reading of bills. Minister responsible for Environment and Natural Resources.

Bill 78: Waste Reduction and Resource Recovery Act
Notices Of Motion For The First Reading Of Bills

Page 5840

Shane Thompson

Shane Thompson Nahendeh

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I give notice that on Tuesday, March 28th, 2023, I will present Bill 78, Waste Reduction and Resource Recovery Act, to be read for the first time. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Bill 78: Waste Reduction and Resource Recovery Act
Notices Of Motion For The First Reading Of Bills

Page 5840

The Speaker

The Speaker Frederick Blake Jr.

Thank you, Minister. Notices of motion for the first reading of bills. Madam Premier.

Bill 79: An Act to Amend the Judicature Act
Notices Of Motion For The First Reading Of Bills

Page 5840

Caroline Cochrane

Caroline Cochrane Range Lake

Mr. Speaker, I give notice that on Tuesday, March 28th, 2023, we will present Bill 79, An Act to Amend the Judicature Act, to be read for the first time. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Bill 79: An Act to Amend the Judicature Act
Notices Of Motion For The First Reading Of Bills

Page 5840

The Speaker

The Speaker Frederick Blake Jr.

Thank you, Madam Premier. First reading of bills. Member for Frame Lake.

Bill 76: An Act to Amend the Electoral Boundaries Commission Act
First Reading Of Bills

March 9th, 2023

Page 5840

Kevin O'Reilly

Kevin O'Reilly Frame Lake

Merci, Monsieur le President. I present Bill 76, An Act to Amend the Electoral Boundaries Commission Act, to be read for the first time. Mahsi, Mr. Speaker.

The Speaker

The Speaker Frederick Blake Jr.

Thank you, Member for Frame Lake. Bill 76 has had first reading. First reading of bills. Second reading of bills. Minister responsible for Environment and Natural Resources.

Bill 74: Forest Act, Carried
Second Reading Of Bills

Page 5840

Shane Thompson

Shane Thompson Nahendeh

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I move, seconded by the honourable Member from YK South, that Bill 74, Forest Act, be read for the second time.

I wish to advise the House that Bill 74, Forest Act, has been drafted under the Intergovernmental Council Legislative Development Protocol which sets out a collaborative process of development of legislation with respect to lands and resources between Intergovernmental Council, Indigenous governments, and the lands and resource department of the Government of the Northwest Territories.

This bill repeals the Forest Management Act and the Forest Protection Act and replaces them with one comprehensive statute that

  • Allocates responsibility for the stewardship and management of the forests in the Northwest Territories among renewable resource boards, renewable resource councils, forest management committees, and the Government of the Northwest Territories;
  • Provides for the establishment of a dispute resolution process to be utilized where there is disagreement among the previously mentioned entities respecting the design or development of plans for management of forests and forest resources;
  • Establishes forest management and protection standards including wildfire prevention and control measures;
  • Establishes a licensing and permitting scheme with respect to the harvesting and use of forest resources;
  • Establishes appeals processes for persons affected by decisions made under this Act;
  • Establishes prohibitions, offences and penalties and sets out an investigation and enforcement regime; and
  • Authorizes the Minister to make regulations.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Bill 74: Forest Act, Carried
Second Reading Of Bills

Page 5840

The Speaker

The Speaker Frederick Blake Jr.

Thank you, Minister. The motion is in order. To the principle of the bill. Member for Frame Lake.

Bill 74: Forest Act, Carried
Second Reading Of Bills

Page 5840

Kevin O'Reilly

Kevin O'Reilly Frame Lake

Merci, Monsieur le President. I will speak to what this bill is all about and the process that resulted in the bill. I will also provide some comments on the bill and concerns with what is there and what is missing. There will be some praise but also harsh words that reflect my continuing concerns around the failure of Cabinet to implement its Open Government policy.

To be honest, I simply edited the remarks I made almost four years ago to almost the same day on Bill 44 from the 19th Assembly. Some of those concerns are addressed in the new bill, I'm happy to say, but others have been completely ignored.

What is Bill 74 all about?

This is a much-needed bill to modernize our forestry practices and management, including fire control. The GNWT has a Forest Management Act and four sets of regulations under it. This legislation allows for the establishment of a supervisor and officers. The powers of the Minister are also set out. Agreements can be entered into and permits and licenses issued for forestry activities. An appeal process is set up. An enforcement regime is established, including offences. Penalties are set out along with regulation-making authority. There are regulations that set out more detail for permits and licenses for harvesting, commercial operations, and research. Charges and fees are laid out, including those related to reforestation. Recordkeeping is also required.

The other three regulations create a forest management unit near Cameron Hills for the cutting of timber, zones for management purposes, and other areas for management.

There is also a Forest Protection Act with no regulations under it. It deals largely with fire suppression, duties to report, and duties to assist. Offences and penalties are also established with ministerial power to create regulations.

The old Bill 44, Forest Act, was introduced in the last Assembly but was eventually withdrawn due to complaints and concerns expressed by Indigenous governments, the public, and standing committee. There was no opportunity for Indigenous governments to review the final draft of the bill. It was very poorly constructed, Mr. Speaker. It would have taken a lot of work to properly reorganize it and to incorporate co-management and public participation. Thankfully, the then Minister withdrew it.

Virtually all of Bill 44 has been carried over into Bill 74, with substantial reorganization and improvements I will discuss a little later.

So Bill 74, Forest Act, will repeal and replace the two current pieces of forest legislation and their regulations. Modern forestry legislation should establish a planning and management regime and the bill does that while ensuring a collaborative approach with Indigenous governments and integration of co-management processes and bodies.

Bill 44 sets out overall administrative roles and responsibilities. Sustainable forest management is outlined, followed by a detailed section on forest fires and suppression. Agreements, permits, and licenses are provided for in the bill and there is a detailed appeal process. Officers are created to provide enforcement through inspections, investigations, and seizures with fines and penalties as well. Alternative measures may be agreed upon. Regulation-making authority is spelled out. Lastly, there are some transitional provisions.

Development of the bill

The bill was co-drafted under the Intergovernmental Council Legislative Development Protocol of 2020. A technical working group comprised of Indigenous government staff and GNWT staff developed the bill. From every report I have heard, there was satisfaction with this process from those Indigenous governments that participated. The evidence of collaboration is clearly evident in the bill from new sections on collaboration and the integration of co-management bodies and processes. I look forward to hearing from these and other Indigenous governments during the review of the bill by standing committee.

The Department of Environment and Natural Resources was the lead GNWT agency during this process. I cannot find any evidence of any public engagement by the department during this Assembly until a discussion paper was released on November 21, 2022. A so-called "have your say" webpage was set up on that date with instructions to submit comments by email or you could also apparently post questions. No questions or comments appear to have been posted on that page, Mr. Speaker. The deadline for comments was December 21st, 2022. That was also extended by a week. The phone number shown on the webpage did not work and was subsequently corrected. A public presentation on the discussion paper and process was requested by Alternatives North who broadcast the meeting on December 21st, 2022, and I observed the event. That group made a written submission that I tabled in the House earlier this week.

After three years of co-development of the bill, the public was only included at the very end, with five weeks to comment, including some time over the busy holiday season.

A so-called "what we heard" report was released on March 6, 2023 with four substantive pages of text. The preparation of the report took almost twice as long as the time given to the public to submit comments. Apparently, there was only one written submission, Mr. Speaker. I have seen a lot of "what we heard" reports during the Assembly but this is one of the worst one I have seen. Only one submission was received, as I've said, so we can easily compare the report against what was actually said and it appears to me, Mr. Speaker, that the department is deaf.

The report dismisses all of the issues and concerns that were raised. The department claims it will prepare regulations at some future date that will allow for public participation. These same concerns were raised on Bill 44, were dismissed then, and not addressed in Bill 74, so I have little confidence the department will actually follow through in any serious way. I am very curious to know whether this public engagement actually resulted in any changes to the bill.

The department did not share much information with standing committee on the development of the bill. There was request for information on a timeline in November 2022, but no briefing was offered.

I do want to commend Cabinet for a recent decision -- I am commending Cabinet, Mr. Speaker, for a recent decision to provide a confidential advance copy of bills to Members after Cabinet has approved them and before they are introduced. This provides Members with additional time to review each bill before it receives first reading and becomes public and before remarks can be made on the principle of the bill at second reading. This will prove very helpful for Members who do wish to speak at second reading, and I sincerely thank Cabinet for this innovation. This would have helped me enormously in the last Assembly as I struggled to read a bill and then pull together comments overnight. That being said, it took me about four hours of reading and studying Bills 44 and 74 to understand what changes had been made and I will cover that in the next section, Mr. Speaker.

Principle and Merit of the bill

Here's what I said about Bill 44 in the last Assembly: "There are a number of very serious issues with this bill as I see it. It is almost as if the bill was half done before it was introduced. There is no logical order or flow to it. One might expect to see research and inventory work lead into the development of management plans, which would then form the basis for forest use through agreements, followed by licenses and permits that would authorize specific forestry activities that would be monitored and reported on. Although the bill contains most of these functions, they are scattered about in an almost incomprehensible fashion." That's what I said on the last bill, Mr. Speaker.

I am very pleased to report that these drafting and organizational problems have been fixed in Bill 74. Thanks to the drafters and technical working group for sorting this out very well.

I commend the technical working group and department for their hard work in integrating co-management into the bill and the various tools it creates. These include forest ecosystem management plans, forest management agreements, and development of terms and conditions for classes of various forest activities such as cutting, clearing, transport, research, mill operation, and more. The bill requires collaboration. This means sharing of information, opportunities for comment on these tools by Indigenous governments and organizations, renewable resource boards, and committees.

Mr. Speaker, one of the most interesting parts of the bill provides for forest management committees to be established, recognized, and incorporated into decision-making for Indigenous peoples in areas outside of lands, resources, and self-government agreements. Particularly for the governments that are not part of the Intergovernmental Council, this is a really good thing, Mr. Speaker.

A forest superintendent position is created with extensive powers but very few actual duties. For example, the forest superintendent "may" develop forest ecosystem management plans. These will be the very foundation of the whole system of agreements, permits, and licenses to make sure all forest activities are sustainable. It's not clear whether agreements and harvesting can or will take place without a plan, but I don't believe that's a very good idea. Another example, the forest superintendent "may" monitor the state of our forests and is required to report on that to Indigenous governments and co-management bodies but not the public.

My greatest concern with the bill is that there is virtually no role for the public in any of the decision-making and sharing of information. That's not for the Intergovernmental Council to sort out but the GNWT's responsibility, and it has failed dismally. The only mention of the public is as a recipient of notices for fire bans and the restricted areas due to fires. There is no role for the public in developing forest ecosystem management plans, reviewing forest management agreements, permits or licenses, receiving notices of forest threats and actions. Mr. Speaker, community governments do not have to be notified of forest threats and actions either.

There is also a lot of authority and power invested in the forest superintendent and officers to issue notices, directions, prepare plans and so on, but nowhere does it state that any of these documents are public or where they may be found. I raised the same issues earlier in this sitting under the current forest management legislation and got vague and incomplete answers. The logical place for all of this information to be located would be an online public registry accessible to all. This is how the co-management bodies work and how the public has come to expect where information can be found.

Provisions for a public registry were added into the Protected Areas Act, the Public Land Act, and the Mineral Resources Act in the last Assembly, and that is desperately needed in this Bill. How is anyone supposed to know what is going on without a public registry? I simply don't understand the resistance of the department to create a public registry. Yes, there is a cost to doing this, but this government continues to receive funding from the federal government to responsibly manage resources. If we want responsible resource development, accountability, transparency, and public participation, a public registry is part of doing business right.

There are problems with the appeal process laid out in the bill in that the only parties that seem to be able to initiate a dispute are an applicant that is denied or issued something they disagree with. Indigenous governments and co-management bodies can also file appeals. Although the issue of surface rights holders and their interests were raised, the bill does not address this issue. I am going to try to explain this a little bit more clearly, Mr. Speaker.

If there was a lodge or a recreational leaseholder, or even a rights-based cabin in an area, a timber cutting license could be issued covering those locations. Those individuals would not have any right of appeal. If a mining claim were staked over those properties and there was a dispute over exploration activities, there is a process for resolving those issues. For forest activities, there is no provision to resolve any such dispute.

The bill deals with fire suppression, and there is a mandatory requirement for prevention and preparedness plans for industrial activities. This is a good feature but there is no provision for any kind of review or public participation, even by a community government that may be nearby or called upon for assistance. The supervisor can provide reimbursement for those called upon to assist but there does not appear to be any dispute resolution process if the amount offered is not accepted.

Fees or charges in respect of reforestation or land clearing are to be tracked as a special purpose fund and are to be used only for forest renewal activities. This is good, in principle. However, there is no requirement for any monitoring or evaluation of the effectiveness of such efforts and no public reporting either. This does not create any accountability or transparency.

Again, as we have seen with many of the resource management bills from Cabinet, there is a troubling pattern of extensive and sweeping ministerial power and discretion without many checks or balances. However, in this bill a better balance is achieved with some checks and balances through required collaboration with Indigenous governments and co-management bodies. That being said, there are 58 listed areas for potential regulations that take up three pages in this 67-page bill.

Lastly, there are few links or coordination specified with other resource management functions such as land use planning. Presumably, if there is an approved land use plan in place, any forest management agreement, permit, or license should conform to that plan and non-conforming applications should be automatically rejected. The bill is silent on this but needs to spell that out more clearly. And they should conform, Mr. Speaker.

I look forward to working with my colleagues on the Standing Committee on Economic Development and Environment to hear what Indigenous governments, non-governmental organizations, industry, and the public have to say about improving this very important piece of legislation. Mahsi, Mr. Speaker.

Bill 74: Forest Act, Carried
Second Reading Of Bills

Page 5841

The Speaker

The Speaker Frederick Blake Jr.

Thank you, Member for Frame Lake. The motion is in order. To the principle of the bill.

Bill 74: Forest Act, Carried
Second Reading Of Bills

Page 5841

Some Hon. Members

Question.

Bill 74: Forest Act, Carried
Second Reading Of Bills

Page 5841

The Speaker

The Speaker Frederick Blake Jr.

Question has been called. All those in favour? All those opposed? Any abstentions? The motion is carried. Bill 74 has had second reading.

---Carried

Member for Nunakput.

Bill 74: Forest Act, Carried
Second Reading Of Bills

Page 5842

Jackie Jacobson

Jackie Jacobson Nunakput

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. As set out in Tabled Document 885-19(2), the process convention on the introduction, consideration, and enactment of bills drafted pursuant to the Intergovernmental Council Legislative Development Protocol, I seek unanimous consent to waive Rule 8.3(1) to increase the standing committee's review period from 120 to 180 days with the intention that the committee will report back Bill 74 during the final sitting of the 19th Legislative Assembly. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Bill 74: Forest Act, Carried
Second Reading Of Bills

Page 5842

The Speaker

The Speaker Frederick Blake Jr.

Thank you, Member for Nunakput. The Member for Nunakput is seeking unanimous consent to waive Rule 8.3(1) and increase the standing committee's review period from 120 to 180 days. Are there any nays? Hearing none, the time for the committee's review of Bill 74 has been increased from 120 to 180 days.

Second reading of bills. Minister responsible for the Status of Women.

Caroline Wawzonek

Caroline Wawzonek Yellowknife South

Mr. Speaker, I move, seconded by the honourable Member for Nahendeh, that Bill 75, Council of Women and Gender Diversity Act, be read for the second time.

This Bill repeals the Status of Women Council Act and establishes the Council for Women and Gender Diversity. The bill also clarifies roles and responsibilities under the Act, clarifies the composition of the council, and redefines its objects and powers. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

The Speaker

The Speaker Frederick Blake Jr.

Thank you, Minister. The motion is in order. To the principle of the bill.

Some Hon. Members

Question.

The Speaker

The Speaker Frederick Blake Jr.

Question has been called. All those in favour? All those opposed? Any abstentions? The motion is carried. Bill 75 has had second reading.

---Carried

Second reading of bills. Consideration in Committee of the Whole of bills and other matters, Bill 23, 29, 60, 61, 63, 66, 67, 68, and 73, Committee Report 40, 43, 44, 47-19(2), Minister's Statement 264-19(2), Tabled Documents 681-19(2), Tabled Document 694-19(2), Tabled Document 813-19(2), Tabled Document 881, 882, and 883-19(2).

By the authority given to me as Speaker under Rule 2.2(4), I hereby authorize the House to sit beyond the daily hours of adjournment to consider the business before the House, with Member for Inuvik Twin Lakes in the chair.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 5842

The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

I now call Committee of the Whole to order. What is the wish of committee? Member for Frame Lake.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 5842

Kevin O'Reilly

Kevin O'Reilly Frame Lake

Merci, Madam la Presidente. Committee wishes to deal with Tabled Document 813-19(2), 2023-2024 Main Estimates, with Department of Finance. Mahsi, Madam Chair

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 5842

The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. Does committee agree?

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 5842

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 5842

The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you, committee. We'll take a five-minute break and get started with Finance. Five minutes.

---SHORT RECESS

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

I now call Committee of the Whole back to order. Committee, we've agreed to consider Tabled Document 813-19(2), Main Estimates 2023-2024. We will now consider the Department of Finance. Does the Minister of Finance have any opening remarks?

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Caroline Wawzonek

Caroline Wawzonek Yellowknife South

Thank you, Madam Chair. I am pleased to present the 2023-2024 Main Estimates for the Department of Finance. These estimates support the mandate objectives for the Department of Finance, while continuing to meet the Government of the Northwest Territories' fiscal objectives to prioritize responsible and strategic spending.

Overall, the department's main estimates propose an increase of $16.29 million, which is 5.1 percent over the 2022-2023 Main Estimates.

Highlights of the proposed main estimates include:

  • A $927,000 reduction to contract budgets in order to better align funding with actual expenditure levels the department has experienced in prior years;
  • $4.42 million in forced growth, mainly driven by a $2 million increase to interest expenses to accommodate the yearly interest on the long-term bond issued by the GNWT. This is in addition to a $2.3 million increase to medical travel funding associated with an increase in public service as well as growing travel costs;
  • $1.104 million to fund a health recruitment unit initiative as the GNWT works to alleviate staffing pressures in the health care system through increased focus on health professional recruitment and retention; and
  • $10.27 million in other adjustments, which include an $8.28 million increase to the carbon tax offsets provided by the government, coinciding with the increase in the carbon tax rate along with the new proposed methodology under which rebates will apply.
  • Additionally, there will be a $3.99 million increase to the contribution amounts provided to Housing NWT to support their efforts in addressing housing needs across the territory.

These estimates continue to support the priorities of the 19th Legislative Assembly and vision of Budget 2023, by:

  • Supporting strategic investments to expand the economy and reduce the cost of living in communities across the Northwest Territories through the development and improvement of reliable broadband services;
  • Continuing to deliver and improve procurement services and contracting opportunities; and,
  • Ensuring that GNWT departments have the support they require to manage both human and financial resources appropriately.

That concludes my opening remarks, Madam Chair.

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you, Minister. Do you wish to bring witnesses into the House?

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Caroline Wawzonek

Caroline Wawzonek Yellowknife South

Yes, please.

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. Sergeant-at-arms, please escort the witnesses in.

Minister, please introduce your witnesses.

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Caroline Wawzonek

Caroline Wawzonek Yellowknife South

Thank you, Madam Chair. Madam Chair, on my left is deputy minister Bill MacKay. And on my right is deputy secretary to the financial management board Terence Courtoreille.

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. Welcome. Does committee agree to proceed to the detail contained in the tabled document?

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Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Committee, we will defer departmental summary and review the estimates by activity summary beginning with directorate, starting on page 154 with information items on page 155 and 156. Are there any questions under the directorate? Member for Frame Lake.

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Kevin O'Reilly

Kevin O'Reilly Frame Lake

Thanks, Madam Chair. On page 155, there's a line item that says social justice fund. That sounds pretty cool. Can the Minister tell us what that money's used for? Thanks, Madam Chair.

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. Minister.

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Caroline Wawzonek

Caroline Wawzonek Yellowknife South

Thank you, Madam Chair. This was negotiated as part of the collective agreement some years ago, and it goes to the Public Service Alliance's of Canada social justice fund, and 50 percent of that goes to United Way Northwest Territories.

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Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. Member for Frame Lake.

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Kevin O'Reilly

Kevin O'Reilly Frame Lake

Thanks, Madam Chair. So the remaining 50 percent stays with the PSAC social justice fund, and they disburse that; is that correct? Thank you, Madam Chair.

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. Minister.

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Caroline Wawzonek

Caroline Wawzonek Yellowknife South

Madam Chair, I'm going to have the deputy minister describe the fund, please.

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. Deputy minister.

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Mackay

Thank you, Madam Chair. So as the Minister said, there's matching contributions made by the Government of the Northwest Territories to the social justice fund with 50 percent of the contributions allocated to the United Way Northwest Territories and 50 percent are allocated to different causes that the union chooses but I don't have those exact areas that they go in at hand. Thank you.

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Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. Member for Frame Lake.

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Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Kevin O'Reilly

Kevin O'Reilly Frame Lake

No, thanks. Okay, that's good. The housing corporation line just above that, I probably asked this before but how is that kind of actually calculated? Does the housing corporation present a budget to the Department of Finance or FMB, then it's approved or reviewed somehow? Yeah, let's start with that. Thanks, Madam Chair.

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. Minister.

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Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Caroline Wawzonek

Caroline Wawzonek Yellowknife South

Thank you, Madam Chair. Madam Chair, essentially the main estimates that would have been seen by the House earlier in the Committee of the Whole process is what comes through financial management board and gets approval. So it's a similar process, although because the corporation not housing another department, that's why it -- the money shows up here going through the Department of Finance. Thank you.

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Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. Member for Frame Lake.

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Kevin O'Reilly

Kevin O'Reilly Frame Lake

Okay. So I'm just trying to understand, does the housing corp just say this is our budget, or is there any review of that by FMB and/or Department of Finance? Thanks, Madam Chair.

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. Minister.

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Caroline Wawzonek

Caroline Wawzonek Yellowknife South

Thank you. Thank you, Madam Chair. So it goes through the same process as every other department would in terms of going to FMB and being analyzed by management board secretariat. Thank you.

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. Member for Frame Lake.

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Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Kevin O'Reilly

Kevin O'Reilly Frame Lake

Okay, thanks, Madam Chair. Just over on the previous page 154, there was a rather large, back in 2021-2022, line item for financial management board and then it came down pretty dramatically. So could I get an explanation as to what that spike is all about? Thank you.

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Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. Minister.

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Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Caroline Wawzonek

Caroline Wawzonek Yellowknife South

Thank you, Madam Chair. I certainly can -- sorry, yes, so that's -- the difference there. That, Madam Chair, was positionally -- well, a couple of things, Madam Chair. There were some changes in terms of compensation and benefits back at the time. There was unfunded positions and underfunded positions that have been -- that have adjusted over time. And then also, Madam Chair, there was an unfunded donation -- this is where there's a donation that was made, $150,000 to United Way, to deal -- or to support flood relief came out of there as well. Thank you, Madam Chair.

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Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. Member for Frame Lake.

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Kevin O'Reilly

Kevin O'Reilly Frame Lake

Okay, thanks. I don't think I have any other questions. I'm just...

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. All right. Are there any further questions from Members under the directorate? Seeing none, please turn to page 336 -- or sorry, wrong. To 154.

Finance and directorate, operations expenditure summary, 2023-2024 Main Estimates, $89,303,000. Does committee agree?

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Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

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Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. We will now turn to page 158. Human resource with information items on page 159. Questions. Member for Yellowknife North.

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Rylund Johnson

Rylund Johnson Yellowknife North

Thank you, Madam Chair. I'm looking at page 159, and I see that human resources unit within Finance is adding eight new positions. Can someone just tell me what those positions are? Thank you.

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Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. Minister.

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Caroline Wawzonek

Caroline Wawzonek Yellowknife South

Thank you, Madam Chair. Madam Chair, these positions are for the human resources health recruitment unit. There are -- really is a -- I can certainly actually provide the detail breakdown of where they are but let me just -- mine -- I'll turn it to the deputy minister, please.

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. Deputy minister

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Mackay

Thank you, Madam Chair. So the -- that's a new initiative funding to provide to the management recruitment services for the establishment of a health recruitment unit. So the function of the establishment is to -- the unit already exists. It was to enhance that unit. So there's eight positions that are being added to that:

  • One manager based in Yellowknife;
  • Two human resource officers in Yellowknife;
  • One HRO in Inuvik;
  • One HRO in Fort Smith;
  • And then two junior HROs in Yellowknife; and,
  • One human resource assistant in Yellowknife.

Thank you, Madam Chair.

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Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. Member for Yellowknife North.

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Rylund Johnson

Rylund Johnson Yellowknife North

Thank you, Madam Chair. Can someone just try to explain to me whether there -- how this unit has changed over time with health hiring? My understanding is prior to the amalgamation, the health authorities were doing all of their hiring themselves and they had their own HR officers. That's no longer the case. And I think now we have -- we still have a bit of a hybrid model where there are some hiring being done in health with the assistance of this unit? Can someone just try to explain it to me. Thank you.

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Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. Minister.

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Caroline Wawzonek

Caroline Wawzonek Yellowknife South

Thank you, Madam Chair. Madam Chair, so there is a joint initiative between the Department of Health and Social Services and the Department of Finance. And I will speak specifically to the health area though, really, Madam Chair, at this point the department of health mirrors more closely what happens in other departments in that there are still management roles for the department's staff that then work with a human resources officer or client services officer who can support the work that goes on to hire someone into an individual department or division.

The health recruitment unit, though, is a little bit different. So understanding that this may be the focus here, this is really meant to address, firstly, the mandate item that we have to increase specifically health professionals in the Northwest Territories but also arising and focusing on the challenges of recruitment of health professionals right now specifically given labour market shortages across Canada. So this began under -- again under the mandate item and has really been refocused and given even more attention in light of what's going on.

So there are some -- with the specialized efforts to support the Department of Health and Social Services, the health recruitment unit can undertake extra and added work to focus on what's going on in the health services labour market to initialize specific campaign drives to try to recruit nurses to spend extra efforts to, you know -- for instance, attending focused conferences. And perhaps I'll stop there, Madam Chair, and make sure I've answered the question adequately. Thank you.

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. Member for Yellowknife North.

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Rylund Johnson

Rylund Johnson Yellowknife North

Yeah, thank you, Madam Chair. Yeah, I guess I don't fully quite understand it. One of the complaints I know we have heard is that a manager over at the health authority will identify a candidate and want to hire them and then they have to quick it over to, I assume someone in HR -- I don't know if it's actually specifically the recruitment unit -- and then there's this turnaround time. And I believe, you know, we've actually been improving it so perhaps that is the question. Can someone just tell me how quickly HR is now processing, especially for health -- and I know there's multiple different timelines, you know, from advertising to -- maybe even to actual contract. But whatever data we have available of us, has this been sped up and we're making some progress on this area? I think it's usually post-interview to contracting and -- thank you, Madam Chair

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. Minister.

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Caroline Wawzonek

Caroline Wawzonek Yellowknife South

Thank you, Madam Chair. We certainly do track the timeliness of hiring processes across departments. I don't have that data in front of me, and it hasn't appeared in my eyes as I'm sitting here. So I will commit to get back to the Member with that.

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. Are there any further questions under the Finance human resources? Member for Monfwi.

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Jane Weyallon Armstrong

Jane Weyallon Armstrong Monfwi

Thank you, Madam Chair. I know, this is further to what my colleague just said. In the past, in our region, TCSA and other GNWT departments, had power to work through human resources process to support our residents in the communities and now these functions have been centralized to Yellowknife office and our region do not have the flexibility to recruit and attract, you know, outside -- especially with the health department, to recruit more health nurses, you know. We have a lot of vacancy just like Minister Green said, that there's 40 percent vacancy. We have problems recruiting nurses, speech pathologists, CYCC and all that. But in the past when the department were doing it, the agency and other GNWT were -- when they had their own human resources office, I don't think there was as much problems or there was any -- a huge vacancy rate at that time. So I'm just wondering, will the Minister decentralize some of the human -- or the human resources power back to the regions to small communities to do their own hiring as we have done in the past?

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. Minister.

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Caroline Wawzonek

Caroline Wawzonek Yellowknife South

Thank you, Madam Chair. Madam Chair, certainly I would note for -- at this moment, there is a junior officer, I think a human resources officer and an assistant in the Tlicho -- based in the Tlicho region. I certainly can appreciate, you know, feedback from the Member. It is difficult to necessarily draw a conclusion about the state of hiring or vacancy rates in a context right now given the labour market shortages across sectors and across Canada and whether or not that is related to a shift in how human resources was structured many years ago as compared to the circumstances we're facing today. There is no immediate plan to reorganize fundamentally how human resources is operating. Thank you.

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. Member for Monfwi.

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Jane Weyallon Armstrong

Jane Weyallon Armstrong Monfwi

Well, that is a disadvantage for us because our vacancy rate is growing in small communities, and we are at risk of losing staff, particularly in the health care field. So I just wanted to ask the Minister can the Minister tell the House how the health care recruitment plan will support our small communities in attracting and retaining health care professionals?

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. Minister.

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Caroline Wawzonek

Caroline Wawzonek Yellowknife South

Thank you, Madam Chair. Madam Chair, that's a large and complex answer. I'll try to be brief. I'm mindful of the ten-minute time, but I'm happy to take more questions either in the House or in writing.

There's two parts to it. And firstly there is -- the work that's happening under the health recruitment unit, and in conjunction with the Department of Health and Social Services, to really look at everything from the labour market supplement, for example, to other initiatives that were announced earlier last year, you know, such as travel with -- with travel incentives to bring family up. But on the other side of it, Madam Chair, I'm live to the fact that the population demographic outside of Yellowknife and outside regional centres tends to be a very dominant Indigenous population, and there are a number of recruitment efforts in that space to try to support a more representative public service. Everything from the Indigenous -- the Indigenous Recruitment and Retention Framework speaks to them. And, again, mindful of time, I don't list them. But I would say that that is probably somewhere to start looking as well in terms of recruiting specifically from within communities. Thank you, Madam Chair.

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. Member for Monfwi.

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Jane Weyallon Armstrong

Jane Weyallon Armstrong Monfwi

Yes, thank you. Okay, I know that work is being done to support the recruitment. But I need to know how or if our community -- how our community are being thought of in this whole process. Can the Minister explain how the headquarters empowers our region to attract and retain health care professionals?

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. Minister.

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Caroline Wawzonek

Caroline Wawzonek Yellowknife South

Thank you, Madam Chair. So the health recruitment unit does work both with -- or in three parts. There's health and social services, NTHSSA, as well as the Tlicho services -- or social -- TCSA, Madam Chair, to form working groups that are meant to have the human resources expertise on the one side but also then the TCSA expertise on the other side so that they can then develop together and identify together what the gaps are and how to respond to them. So I would certainly commit, Madam Chair, to perhaps getting some notes or some background as to where that working group is at from the -- with the TCSA. I do get regular reports in a general sense as to what's coming back from HRU. But I -- and I would certainly suggest that some specifics from the working group might be the best answer and more helpful. Thank you.

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. Member for Monfwi.

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Jane Weyallon Armstrong

Jane Weyallon Armstrong Monfwi

Well, this is just in general too as well. You know, like, so I just wanted to know how GNWT is working with agency and other GNWT departments and Indigenous governments to support recruitment efforts of health care professionals in many of the small communities? Thank you.

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. Minister.

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Caroline Wawzonek

Caroline Wawzonek Yellowknife South

Well, Madam Chair, perhaps more broadly then, I'll take a look at the regular reports that I do receive from the health recruitment unit and see if we can provide that so that Members have a better sense of what the work is that they are accomplishing.

I would say, Madam Chair, that they actually have seen some successes in terms of their hiring and some reduction in overall vacancies. However, of course, the market remains challenging so that's not to say that the situation is solved but it would be worth an update from them, and we'll provide that. Thank you.

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. Member for Frame Lake.

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Kevin O'Reilly

Kevin O'Reilly Frame Lake

Thanks, Madam Chair. The health care recruitment team, I'm just wondering where are they actually physically located? Are they in with everybody else from HR or do they actually -- are they over with health and social services staff; how does that work? Thanks, Madam Chair.

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. Minister.

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Caroline Wawzonek

Caroline Wawzonek Yellowknife South

Thank you, Madam Chair. So it is an initiative that comes out from the department of human resources, so Finance, and obviously is a headquarters functions but then beyond that, this is, again, the eight positions that we were just describing here in the main estimates have locations beyond Yellowknife. There's human resource officer positions now being added to -- well, I'm going to get it wrong now. To Inuvik and Smith, with a view to being much more closely to where those positions would be required. Thank you, Madam Chair.

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. Member for Frame Lake.

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Kevin O'Reilly

Kevin O'Reilly Frame Lake

Okay, thanks. Well, let's just focus then on the positions in Yellowknife. And, you know, I presume that there's not warm bodies there right now but where are they actually going to be located? I guess where I'm going with this is it might be better if they're actually located closer to the health and social services staff and the workers there as opposed to just being kind of lumped in with all of the rest of the HR people. And, look, I don't even know where they are in Yellowknife, what building they're in. But I guess if I could get some clarification from the Minister. Thanks, Madam Chair.

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. Minister.

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Caroline Wawzonek

Caroline Wawzonek Yellowknife South

Thank you, Madam Chair. Madam Chair, the Yellowknife-based staff, I understand, are based in Yellowknife -- or in the YK Centre. Madam Chair, it's part of recruitment services. So, I mean, they can be embedded with other professionals who do recruitment as a day to day, or, I mean, embedded with health care professionals. To be honest, Madam Chair, I would expect that professionals in this sphere, and given the nature of their work, are expected to engage directly and regularly with their counterparts, whether it's the professionals on the recruitment side or whether it's those who are within health and social services, so yes. Thanks, Madam Chair.

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. Member for Frame Lake.

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Kevin O'Reilly

Kevin O'Reilly Frame Lake

Yeah, okay, well I tried. So I'm just wondering whether the folks on the HR side ever talk to UNW, not about wages, anything like that, but about recruitment and retention. What work, if any, could be done or should be done with UNW to try to make sure that we can keep those positions staffed? Thanks, Madam Chair.

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. Minister.

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Caroline Wawzonek

Caroline Wawzonek Yellowknife South

Thank you, Madam Chair. Madam Chair, there is a health working group jointly populated by the UNW and human resources, or Department of Finance. And there are regular meetings -- a variety of regular meetings between the Department of Finance and UNW and I am told that it's at an officials' level but that that is a standing item specific to the idea of recruitment services, health recruitment. It's a standing item at those meetings. Thank you.

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. Member for Frame Lake.

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Kevin O'Reilly

Kevin O'Reilly Frame Lake

No, okay, that's -- I just wanted to raise that and it sound like there's a collaborative thing going so that's all good by me. Thanks, Madam Chair.

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. Are there any further questions under human resources? Member for Great Slave.

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Katrina Nokleby

Katrina Nokleby Great Slave

Thank you, Madam Chair. I just want to echo a little bit of the concerns from my colleagues around the decentralization of the human resources function.

As I've moved through some of my own health stuff at the hospital and talking with technicians and things there, there is a perceived notion, and I don't know how accurate it is, that the holdup on some of the recruitment is the department of HR and not the department of health and that, you know, as it was put to me, the job description, etcetera, had already been put in long ago to the Department of Finance, and nothing had moved. And so I just wanted to echo that that is a concern that I hear. I do recognize that, you know, everybody is struggling for employees at this time, but it sounds like we are a bit bogged down at times in our process. So I don't know that I really have a question in that but just more that, I do hear the same things as my colleagues, and particularly in the more specialized hiring areas, that perhaps some of that control needs to go back to the departments.

But my question is a bit around Indigenous representation, particularly Indigenous men. I think it's still stagnant at the 8 percent representation. And as a government we do very well with hiring of women, generally. So I think that there is a real lack here, or something is obviously very flawed if Indigenous men are only 8 percent. So I also hear stories of tokenism and such, or where people are hired but only then to be sort of that face but not really advancing or having the opportunities for training. So I guess I just want to hear the Minister speak a little bit more about how things are changing to increase the representation of Indigenous people within the GNWT and particularly Indigenous men? Thank you.

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. Minister.

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Caroline Wawzonek

Caroline Wawzonek Yellowknife South

Thank you, Madam Chair. Madam Chair, the Department of Finance doesn't believe in tokenism. There is, of course, a number of efforts, as I know the House is familiar with respect to Indigenous recruitment and retention generally. So, again, Indigenous Recruitment and Retention Framework, which was introduced now a couple of years ago but which is starting to roll out and I believe will be bearing fruit. So one of the things is that individual departments now have specific targets. I think that's a big deal, and it's worth focusing on a little because if you don't even have a target you could just say you're working on something without actually having something to work towards or to be measured against. So with those targets now in place -- and they're individualized because different departments have different types of work available to them and therefore can focus on different types of recruitment strategies or different kind of training to ensure that people are moving up through the ranks depending upon the nature of the jobs.

Now, so that should apply regardless of someone's gender. I would agree that we do right now in some -- in some positions it's actually men who need to be supported perhaps more to achieve parity than women. Madam Chair, I'm going to give a bit of a plug to the review we're doing right now, the affirmative action policy, which really doesn't have necessarily that kind of look at what's happening in the labour market. It is simply a policy that applies based on one's identity feature rather than an equity policy that looks at the gap between what's happening in the labour market and who we actually have working for us. So that's just one more reason that we're looking to look at how we're actually hiring and who we're promoting. Thanks, Madam Chair.

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. Member.

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Katrina Nokleby

Katrina Nokleby Great Slave

Yeah, I'm pretty sure nobody likes tokenism but maybe lip service is another phrase that we can throw out when it comes to this conversation. I mean, I get that there appears to be an intent and a want and -- to hire and increase representation, but I just don't see it translating to people on the ground. And I recognize that there has been some key hires in senior management even that I think are really good and are, you know, leading the way and a good example. But when you look at just, you know, movement within departments, I can think of within the housing department, a long-term Indigenous employee that was, you know, recently passed over for a settler, for lack of a better word; somebody who had moved up from the south. I hear this constantly. We all -- I think everybody on this side probably knows at least one or two people that we could think of right off the top that, you know, should have been advancing within their departments and they're not. So I guess just more of a comment.

I recognize it's a very difficult thing, especially right now where we are wanting to -- we're so desperate for employees in general that, you know, we can't always be looking at imposing all of these sets of criteria however it does need to be addressed. And I guess obviously through training and ensuring we have a good supply. I'll just leave it at that. Thank you, Madam Chair.

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you for your comments. Are there any further questions, comments under human resources? Seeing none, Members, please turn to page 158.

Finance, human resources, operations expenditure summary, 2023-2024 Main Estimates, $22,689,000. Does committee agree?

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Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. Please turn to management board secretariat beginning on page 161, with information items on 162 to 164. Are there any questions or comments under this section? Member for Frame Lake.

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Kevin O'Reilly

Kevin O'Reilly Frame Lake

Thanks, Madam Chair. So on page 161, the Whati Fibre Project is listed. Can someone explain to me was that just, like, put out to tender, or how was that project undertaken? Thanks, Madam Chair.

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Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. Minister.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
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Caroline Wawzonek

Caroline Wawzonek Yellowknife South

Thank you, Madam Chair. That project is led by the Tlicho government. So the funding that you see there back in 2021-2022 was to help them in terms of supporting their design and planning services. But then beyond that, it is a project led by the Tlicho government. Thank you.

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Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. Member for Frame Lake.

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Kevin O'Reilly

Kevin O'Reilly Frame Lake

Okay, thanks. Who actually owns the infrastructure then at the end of the day? Thanks, Madam Chair.

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. Minister.

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Caroline Wawzonek

Caroline Wawzonek Yellowknife South

Thank you, Madam Chair. I understand it is the Tlicho government that would ultimately own that. Thank you.

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. Member for Frame Lake.

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Kevin O'Reilly

Kevin O'Reilly Frame Lake

Okay, thanks. And then we don't have any residual obligations for O and M or -- and so on, is that correct? Thanks, Madam Chair.

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Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. Minister.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Caroline Wawzonek

Caroline Wawzonek Yellowknife South

That's correct, Madam Chair.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Member for Frame Lake.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Kevin O'Reilly

Kevin O'Reilly Frame Lake

Okay, thanks. I know I keep asking this question, and it probably is kind of annoying - as I can be. The Northwest Territories Heritage Fund, why is there just this placeholder figure of $7,600,000 for, it looks like, you know, last year the revised estimates. Surely to goodness we must know what that figure is by now? Thanks, Madam Chair.

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Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. Minister.

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Caroline Wawzonek

Caroline Wawzonek Yellowknife South

Thank you, Madam Chair. Madam Chair, that is -- it's -- the number that's put in here is based on historical averages and so that's why you see $7.6 million there, and it does obviously vary year by year. But based on historical averages, that's the number that is used. Thank you, Madam Chair.

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Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. Member for Frame Lake.

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Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Kevin O'Reilly

Kevin O'Reilly Frame Lake

Okay, thanks. So when do we actually know how much is in the heritage fund? Thanks, Madam Chair.

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Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. Minister.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
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Caroline Wawzonek

Caroline Wawzonek Yellowknife South

Thank you, Madam Chair. So when royalty payments come in, you know, end of the fiscal year and are reported upon and, again, keeping in mind the fiscal year for the mines themselves, then that is when the total contribution is known. So you would see it -- you know, probably this is an occasion where looking at the actuals and not just the budget is the way to go to understand what is actually in there. This is just the budgeted amount, again based on an average. It's not obviously what actually comes in. Thank you, Madam Chair.

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Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. Member for Frame Lake.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
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Kevin O'Reilly

Kevin O'Reilly Frame Lake

Okay, thanks, Madam Chair. So yearend, March 31st, when do we actually have some sense of what is going to go in for the previous year? Is it like June, July, September, December, when do we kind of know how much is going to go in there? Thanks, Madam Chair.

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Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. Minister.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
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Caroline Wawzonek

Caroline Wawzonek Yellowknife South

Thank you, Madam Chair. The contributions or payments are made over the summer months, so either between July to before the end of August.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. Member for Frame Lake.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Kevin O'Reilly

Kevin O'Reilly Frame Lake

Okay, thanks. And is that when the funds go out to Indigenous governments under the net fiscal benefit arrangement? Thanks, Madam Chair.

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Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. Minister.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Caroline Wawzonek

Caroline Wawzonek Yellowknife South

Thank you, Madam Chair. Yes, that's correct. Approximately -- so, again, sometime in and around by August and let's say early fall at the outset. Thank you.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. Member for Frame Lake.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Kevin O'Reilly

Kevin O'Reilly Frame Lake

Yeah, okay, thanks. I don't think I have anything else. Thank you.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

All right, thank you. Member for Great Slave.

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Katrina Nokleby

Katrina Nokleby Great Slave

Thank you, Madam Chair. My question is about the aviation sector support. I do know obviously that was the money that was put in during COVID to help keep our airplanes afloat, for lack of a better word. And so I note that there was an additional amount of $2 million put in in the revised estimates that we hadn't planned on. Can the Minister speak to -- I probably should know what that is, but if she could explain why we ended up putting in another $2 million last year that we didn't plan? And then I guess I'll ask my other question after. Thanks.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. Minister.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Caroline Wawzonek

Caroline Wawzonek Yellowknife South

Thank you, Madam Chair. That was the last round of funding received from the federal government under this initiative. Thank you, Madam Chair.

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Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. Member for Great Slave.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Katrina Nokleby

Katrina Nokleby Great Slave

Thank you, Madam Chair. So then I'm just guessing it wasn't in our predicted mains because we didn't know we were getting it, and I see the Minister nodding yes so thank you for that.

Given that there was a recent article about Canadian North and issues perhaps around financing, without getting too much into their financial details, does the Minister anticipate there's going to be another need for any aviation sector supports coming? Like, I recognize that the pandemic has played its course as far as being like an emergency, but, you know, our travel industry, our airlines are still quite fragile, and I'm just wondering, you know, given supply chain issues and all of that, cost of fuel, are we going to be bailing out our airlines again coming up? Thanks.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. Minister.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Caroline Wawzonek

Caroline Wawzonek Yellowknife South

Thank you, Madam Chair. I hope not. And, you know, Madam Chair, I do have the opportunity to meet, and have been taking the opportunity myself and Minister Archie to meet with all the major airlines that are servicing the Northwest Territories, arising actually more from the lack of access to routing as oppose to worrying about their finances. And in doing so, it gives us an opportunity to have a better handle on what is happening in that industry. We've certainly not had any asks; I can say that. And if anything, Minister Archie and I are more concerned with seeing what they can do to expand services in the North. So there are routes being added and I'll take that as a good sign for now. Thank you, Madam Chair.

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Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. Member for Great Slave.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
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Katrina Nokleby

Katrina Nokleby Great Slave

Thank you, Madam Chair. And I mean, yeah, I take that as a good sign too of an expansion but then we all know in the past too, sometimes if someone expands too much too quickly, they can't financially keep up with that. So I'm a little concerned we're in a little bit of a teetery position here when it comes to our airlines. And I guess it's worth noting as well that, you know, the issues that Canadian North faces, or Air Canada for that matter, are obviously a lot different than what our small regional carriers face and such and I know that's a bigger conversation. So I will leave that one there.

My next question is around the Mackenzie Valley Fibre Link. I guess I'm not super up to date on where things are at currently with that and the redundancy and tieing all of the -- some of these communities onto the fibre optic loop. So can the Minister speak a little bit about what the plans are next for the $12.25 million that's slated here? Thank you.

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Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. Minister.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
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Caroline Wawzonek

Caroline Wawzonek Yellowknife South

Thank you, Madam Chair. Sorry, Madam Chair, I was looking for something different there. Because this -- so the money that's showing up here in -- under the management board secretariat is the -- is related to the service payments that we have to maintain the line or -- for over the cost of having built the line but not necessarily connected to what is happening in terms of connecting communities.

So the Mackenzie Valley Fibre Line does create the point of presence of the fibre in the communities and we do pay for that and receive revenues for its use. But there is, meanwhile, work happening, led by Northwestel, with respect to delivering on a 50/10 level of service to every community in the Northwest Territories. I had the opportunity to speak with representatives from Northwestel within the last month or two. I gather there's been some delays as a result of the Anik F2 failure, but they are still expecting to be on track for a 2026 delivery date and are being monitored by CRTC in that regard. Thank you.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. Member for Great Slave.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
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Katrina Nokleby

Katrina Nokleby Great Slave

Thank you, Madam Chair. I am now thinking that would be more in the capital area, so I do appreciate the Minister answering my question regardless.

So I guess I -- I'm going to touch the really big elephant in the room is the carbon tax offset. Again, I still -- I'm not on the committee. I do struggle at times to understand everything that is going on around the carbon tax. And given that there is $47.8 million here, and yet it's my understanding that we can't use these for rebates, where does this money end up going given the changes come April 1st? Thank you.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. Minister.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
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Caroline Wawzonek

Caroline Wawzonek Yellowknife South

Thank you, Madam Chair. So the increase on expenditures here is the increase to the grants that are for various rebates benefits associated with offsetting. So there is the grant -- I mean, and this is, of course, all projected and premised on the notion that the -- what we anticipated in Bill 60 would pass which, you know, obviously is not -- is not guaranteed by any stretch. The largest amount would be for the large emitter program that we have, which is not a complete or a total remission of taxes paid by large emitters but only the amount that is planned for under the 72 percent. They right now pay roughly 50 percent of the tax as compared to other residents or businesses that are paying carbon taxes. There's also the rebate for the generation of electricity. There's the rebate for cost of living to individual residents. And so that -- yes, so that's the different pieces here. And, I mean, maybe I'll leave it to see what the next question might be, Madam Chair. Thank you.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. Member for Great Slave.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
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Katrina Nokleby

Katrina Nokleby Great Slave

Thank you. If I can come up with one that makes sense. I guess -- yeah, so my understanding is that we can't give back then the direct money to people at the -- or going forward, based on what the government is changing, but we can still give rebates and things under other programs; is that what the Minister's saying? Thank you.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. Minister.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
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Caroline Wawzonek

Caroline Wawzonek Yellowknife South

Thank you, Madam Chair. So, again, it's federal government rules that we're working within and, you know, I'd like to suggest it's -- we're basically putting up a shield to try to ensure that the full force of what the federal government is doing doesn't impact residents and businesses in the Northwest Territories. The total grants and rebates that are proposed here are $47.18 million. There's also almost $700,000 that is required to administer the program largely through the Canada Revenue Agency. We don't have necessarily the manpower to do it but it does still come with a cost. And then the breakdown is we cannot rebate heating fuel anymore. So that's certainly a big one that we and other jurisdictions have been very vocal about but to no avail. And, yes, you cannot -- right now, people when they pay, when they're getting their heating fuel or whatever other sorts of fuel, it's right at the point of purchase. So at the pump so to speak. That is also not allowed anymore. You cannot negate the carbon signal meaning you can't make it seem to someone that they're not paying it when they're paying it. It is now needs to be apparent to a person that they're paying the tax even if we, as the GNWT, are going to try and step in and actually completely mitigate that tax later through the payment. At the front end, the federal government is saying they want people to know what they're paying. At the back end, we're saying we're going to prevent them from actually being impacted by it financially.

Now, look, one of the benefits of that is that it hopefully will motivate people to, in fact, take steps, whether it's through Arctic Energy Alliance or otherwise, to reduce GHG emissions. Then they get more money in their pocket when they get their cost of living offset. But it just means that you can't upfront know what -- you have to upfront know what you're paying. There, thank you, Madam Chair.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. Member for Great Slave.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Katrina Nokleby

Katrina Nokleby Great Slave

Thank you, Madam Chair. I do appreciate that the Minister's a bit verbose but I did understand from the first sentence what the answer to my question was, so. I just want to -- one thing there that twigged me in that comment was the $700,000 to administer the program. So I have to say that feels like a bit of a kick in the teeth from the federal government. Not only are we imposing this all on you, we're now going to charge you another $700,000 to administer it for you. So is there any opportunity perhaps for us to go back to the feds and just say, please, at the very least remove the $700,000 admin fee and give that back to us? Thank you.

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. Minister.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
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Caroline Wawzonek

Caroline Wawzonek Yellowknife South

Thank you, Madam Chair. Madam Chair, there are costs associated with having the Canada Revenue Agency administering our tax collection in general. So I don't know that this is necessarily unique or distinct. The reality is it would cost a significant amount of money for the GNWT to do that and human resources capacity. And if they didn't do it, we'd have to do it. So it's sort of a one way or the other. It might actually be more expensive for us to have to start up our own entire tax collection and administration system. CRA is actually a fairly large -- I think surprisingly large part of the federal government that might just sort of swing under the radar. But I don't have their budgets in front of me nor do I intend to defend them, but just to say that that part of ours is -- yes, it's something that has to happen one way or the other. Thank you.

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Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. Are there any further questions to the management board secretariat from Members? Seeing none, please turn to page 161.

Finance, management board secretariat, operations expenditure summary, 2023-2024 Main Estimates, $110,692,000. Does committee agree?

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. We will now turn to page 166, Office of the Chief Information Officer, with information items on page 167. Are there any questions? Member for Kam Lake.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Caitlin Cleveland

Caitlin Cleveland Kam Lake

Thank you, Madam Chair. Just a couple of questions and, I mean, the Minister and I have had conversations about this before. One of the things that I am finding increasingly frustrating lately is when I go and talk to another Minister about integrated service delivery and the barriers to being able to provide integrated service delivery to Northerners because of our systems that we use within the government. And so I'm wondering if -- you know, we've got $21.8 million here in expenditures for this office, and I know that they do far more than just purchase software or, rather, manage the purchase of software. And so is there funding within here to work on an interoperability framework? Thank you.

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Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. Minister.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Caroline Wawzonek

Caroline Wawzonek Yellowknife South

Thank you, Madam Chair. There's not necessarily a line item that associates to interoperability but, Madam Chair, as the Member knows that's one of my new favourite words. It certainly is, I think, the goal in speaking -- in speaking with our new chief information officer, to get to a place of having more interconnectedness. There are, for example, SAM and DIIMS and programs such as that, that are now being rolled out across the whole of government which will hopefully support but also simply making it more of a priority in general because it takes people, and it does take resources to pay for these rather complex and expensive systems. So, again, not a line item per se but really is -- you know, doesn't need to be because it's a big focus of what the chief information officer is expected to deliver. Thank you.

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Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. Member for Kam Lake.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Caitlin Cleveland

Caitlin Cleveland Kam Lake

Thank you very much, Madam Chair. Madam Chair, you know, something like interoperability framework is not likely something that we're going to see show up in the priorities of the 20th Assembly as a line item so to say, and so I'm wondering what suggestions the Department of Finance would have to the next Assembly coming in to be able to push this item to be able to actually deliver results across the government? Thank you.

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Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. Minister.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Caroline Wawzonek

Caroline Wawzonek Yellowknife South

Thank you, Madam Chair. I'm conscious of time so, look, I can say there is again -- yet, again, there's another framework being developed, Madam Chair. But, again, you need a framework to know within what -- how to -- what the parameters are of what you're trying to achieve. Interoperability, again I completely share this as being a priority. I have drank this Kool-Aid. We can't -- the systems around going to work together if they're not designed to work together and you can't train people to have them working within the same systems if they don't know what they're working within, so it does take a framework to achieve those things. It's -- enterprise architecture is probably is another one I'm going to introduce you to as being the thing that is used to actually create that interoperability. So it's being worked on, and I'd be happy to perhaps provide a bit of a written update to Members rather than trying to do it in limited space of time here. Thank you, Madam Chair.

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Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. Member for Kam Lake.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Caitlin Cleveland

Caitlin Cleveland Kam Lake

Yeah, thank you, Madam Chair. And I'm good with that. And I think too what would kind of be helpful is to kind of -- is to better understand what the steps are in getting there and more from a high level. Like, I'm not asking to create a framework before you create a framework. But understanding, you know, are we -- is this, you know, a three, four, five, ten-year transition for the GNWT? Because my concern is from kind of the human side of it where, you know, how do we track and use and analyze data to be more strategic in our decision-making if all the systems that we need to be able to talk one another aren't able to do that. And so I look forward to continuing this conversation with the Minister. Thank you.

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Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. Are there any further comments under the Office of the Chief Information Officer? Seeing none, please turn to page 166.

Finance, Office of the Chief Information Officer, operations expenditure summary, 2023-2024 Main Estimates, $21,834,000. Does committee agree?

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Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you, committee. We will now to the Office of the Comptroller General, beginning on page 169 with information items on page 170 and 171. Are there any questions?

Seeing no questions, please turn to page 169.

Finance, Office of the Comptroller General, operations expenditure summary, 2023-2024 Main Estimates, $93,016,000. Does committee agree?

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Page 5847

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

There are additional information items on page 172 to 175. Are there any questions? Member for Frame Lake.

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Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Kevin O'Reilly

Kevin O'Reilly Frame Lake

Thanks, Madam Chair. I started to ask some questions about the heritage fund before and then it twigged me to some -- I think I got an explanation for this but I'm still not quite sure about this.

So there's figures shown on the heritage fund, on page 172, then in the -- there's a Roman numeral 14, there's a summary of resource revenue sharing, and the contributions to the heritage fund shown on that page are not the same as what I seem to see on page 172. And they're out by, you know, literally millions of dollars. So what are these two line items actually showing and why are they different? Thanks, Madam Chair.

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Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. Minister.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Caroline Wawzonek

Caroline Wawzonek Yellowknife South

Madam Chair, let's hand this to Mr. Courtoreille, please.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. Mr. Courtoreille.

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Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Courtoreille

Thanks, Madam Chair. The schedule on page Roman numeral 14 is the summary of the resource revenue sharing. And that's a schedule that shows the breakdown of how resource revenues would be shared between Indigenous governments and ultimately with the heritage fund. It's really a different schedule than what is presented over in the finance section under the information item for the heritage fund. You can track the actual contribution to the heritage fund for the actual year. So for 2021-2022, it was $5.6 million. And Members will see that over in the corresponding schedule for the heritage fund. But for those future years, the heritage fund schedule just shows the amount of the budget that the Department of Finance has appropriated for. Thank you, Madam Chair.

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Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. Member for Frame Lake.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Kevin O'Reilly

Kevin O'Reilly Frame Lake

Thanks for that. So then if there's actuals shown on Roman numeral 14, I can see how it lines up with 2021-2022 back on page 172. But 2022-2023, there's just this placeholder amount of $7.6 million on page 172 whereas on Roman numeral 14 it actually shows, you know, $2.026 million, which is significantly less than 7.6. So which figure is right, and why wouldn't we be using the actuals that are shown on 14 put them into 172? Thanks, Madam Chair.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. Minister.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Caroline Wawzonek

Caroline Wawzonek Yellowknife South

Thank you, Madam Chair. So, again, 172 is just the budgeted -- and I shouldn't say "just." It is a budgeted amount. There are other numbers within the budget that are based on a projection, then there are standard bases by which they come up with the projections, while meanwhile over on the -- yeah, we don't put actuals into the budget, you just put budgeted or projected amounts. That's where you will see the way the department's budgets get built up, of having the actuals. Main estimates is the budget, then the revised is things that have changed over time, and then finally ending again with new main estimates.

But I can go back one more time and perhaps to -- yes, the only number that you're going to see common is the 2021-2022 contribution because at this point we know what that actual number was. The actuals for what the actual revenue was and then the grants to start to derive what the revenue is and what the contribution amounts will be that starts to feed into future years. But the 7.6 is still a historical, just average, not based on what an actual presented number would be. I'll stop there and see if that's got me any further, Madam Chair.

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Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. Member for Frame Lake.

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Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Kevin O'Reilly

Kevin O'Reilly Frame Lake

Okay. No, I'm sorry. Okay, look, I get that 2023-2024 is a guesstimate. We're budgeting ahead there. But for 2022-2023, the one on Roman numeral 14 seems to show actuals unless I'm totally out to lunch. So I can see where the -- you know, for 2021-2022, the $5,656,000 lines up with other income for 2021-2022 on page 172. But why is there just like this $7.6 million then for 2022-2023 in the main estimates when, you know, on page 14 it shows $2.026 million there's a contribution to the heritage fund.

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Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. Minister.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Caroline Wawzonek

Caroline Wawzonek Yellowknife South

Thank you, Madam Chair. So, again, it's -- yes, I mean, I'm not sure if we're going to get past this, Madam Chair. So 7.6 is just -- it's a budget estimate and in 14, it is where we are at in terms of the revenue forecast. I suggest let me try one more time if I can get Mr. Courtoreille to just walk through the math, both of the 7.6 of how we calculate it, and then compared to the math on how we calculate at page 14, please.

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Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. Mr. Courtoreille.

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Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Courtoreille

Thanks, Madam Chair. So just to clarify, the amounts on Roman numeral page 14 for the year 2022-2023, those are still budgeted numbers; they're not actual numbers. And for the revised main estimates, we're forecasting that number to be $3.8 million. But it will likely be a different number once the actuals come in. We don't know what the exact number will be. Eventually, once those actuals are sorted out, you'll see that actual contribution to the heritage fund reflected on the heritage fund schedule under the Department of Finance. The 7.6 number is the appropriated number that the department has in its budget, and it seems reasonable to put that for those budget years going forward. Thank you, Madam Chair.

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Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. Member for Frame Lake.

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Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Kevin O'Reilly

Kevin O'Reilly Frame Lake

I think it's too late in the day for me to try to quibble about whether we're going to use actuals when we actually know the amount versus budgeted amounts that are not reflective of reality. So I think I'll just stop there. Thanks, Madam Chair.

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Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. Member for Great Slave.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Katrina Nokleby

Katrina Nokleby Great Slave

Thank you, Madam Chair. I would like to ask some questions around the liquor and cannabis revolving fund. And I note that NWTers are increasingly spending more money on cannabis, according to our main estimates here. Seeing an over $1 million rise from last year. So my question is -- and I'm going to caveat this with that I grew up in British Columbia. So the cannabis culture has been around for a very long time in that province. And through that, there's a lot of, you know, opportunities for things such as cafes and other cannabis-related businesses that are currently at the moment not allowed in the Northwest Territories. And I guess my question is there a plan at any point to look at this -- to this sort of operating model of just the government selling and such and maybe really look at cannabis as a bit of our economic diversity type portfolio and see if there's a place there for a bit of a cannabis retail or sector? Thank you.

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Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. Minister.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Caroline Wawzonek

Caroline Wawzonek Yellowknife South

Thank you, Madam Chair. Madam Chair, so the process right now is a proponent would have to be designated as a vendor. There are currently three private stores which certainly has, as I think the Member's pointed out, gone up and that it may be one of the explanations simply by fact of having more access that there are now more licensed and legal sales. So there are ongoing processes I understand, and that's some of the other -- and sorry, just to also the privately-run store that is existing as well, which took that off the hands of the government to run. There are RFPs out typically that would go out to see if somebody wants to run a cannabis store in a community, and someone can bid on it. There's been at times difficultly getting people to bid on those RFPs, certainly at least outside of Yellowknife. Yes, and certainly there's -- you know, to the extent that there's interest in that, I -- you know, if we hear there's interest in that then that can drive whether or not more RFPs may want to issue or not. Thank you, Madam Chair.

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Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. Member for Great Slave.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Katrina Nokleby

Katrina Nokleby Great Slave

Thank you, Madam Chair. And I guess I'm also sort of thinking -- trying to think a little bit more outside of the box of just the sale of cannabis itself. And the reason I bring this up is I have a constituent who is a cannabis influencer, and they are looking to see ways in which they could, potentially, you know, do growing workshops, things like that, and such as any other business in the Northwest Territories maybe be looking to have some startup cost funding, SEED funding, things like that. And I know that's not this hat today that you're wearing -- or the Minister's wearing. But, you know, I'm curious to know if there's any sort of innovative conversation around this type of business. It is a huge market. There is a lot there. There's tourism things with it. So I guess I'm just curious to hear the Minister speak a bit about that. Thank you.

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Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. Minister.

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Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Caroline Wawzonek

Caroline Wawzonek Yellowknife South

Thank you, Madam Chair. Yes, Madam Chair, I mean, that's -- I mean, my first reaction is that's interesting. And not to make it too simple of an answer but I don't have a good answer right now on the fly, and I think it actually is one that does deserve a bit more of an answer and one that might, you know -- just more of us going and looking back. I mean, there are certainly restrictions and rules around, you know, even sales of liquor as well as sales of cannabis. I'm certainly hearing, you know, different aspects of that issue in the Northwest Territories, whether or not to regulate a different type of venue. Again, bigger conversation. So if I might suggest, this may be one that if I can just have a bit of time with the department to see what barriers there are within the legislation or regulations, put that to the Member, and then obviously if Members want to push for changes then they would be then well placed to do that knowing exactly what it is that they would need to see changed to achieve the goals described. Thank you.

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Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. Member for Great Slave.

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Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Katrina Nokleby

Katrina Nokleby Great Slave

Thank you, Madam Chair. Yeah, and I would definitely follow up with the Minister for a further conversation with her other hat on as well, with ITI.

And, again, I really do want to be respectful of the conversation around liquor and the damage it has done in the Northwest Territories. However, in Yellowknife, and what I hear from some residents, is the frustration at the liquor store not being opened on Sundays. And it strikes me as quite odd in how we decide to treat cannabis versus liquor where cannabis can be sold on a Sunday and liquor cannot. And I know this is a very complex conversation in the territory but when I do look at Yellowknife, I don't see necessarily why we're not selling alcohol on Sundays. And so is that something that the government or the department is looking to perhaps change in the future, even if it is community-specific and community-driven, which ones do it. Thank you.

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Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. Minister.

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Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Caroline Wawzonek

Caroline Wawzonek Yellowknife South

Thank you, Madam Chair. So there is -- of course, there has been a review of the Liquor Act in the length of this Assembly, and I would say credit to the standing committee for encouraging that to move forward. There -- and that would be one of the items that can be considered through that process, and it's obviously then a process that includes public consultation. I think the Member sort of stated it much the way I've been receiving information, which is that there's -- what might be workable and appropriate for a large centre such as Yellowknife may not necessarily be reflective of what's wanted by a small community. And part of what would be nice to see in amended liquor legislation is actually to be able to empower individual communities to better reflect what they want without too many hoops, including the desires of the community in Yellowknife which may be different. So not to go too far on the what's coming or what may not be coming in the legislation -- in amended legislation, only to say that that is exactly the kind of balance that needs to be struck therein. Thank you.

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Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. Member for Great Slave.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Katrina Nokleby

Katrina Nokleby Great Slave

Thank you, Madam Chair. And, yeah, I appreciate that's in the little bit that I've seen of that, again not the committee I see on. But I appreciate that is what is being considered. And, again, I think it shows the understanding of the department that it's not going to be a one answer or a one size fits all across the territory.

And then I guess I'll just ask lastly, because I think that usually MLA Johnson asks and he's not going to today, is there a way -- or some others have asked, to actually funnel this money directly into our rehab addiction services, etcetera. And I'm pretty sure I already know what the answer's going to be, but I'll ask again. Thank you, Madam Chair.

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Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. Minister.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Caroline Wawzonek

Caroline Wawzonek Yellowknife South

Thank you, Madam Chair. Madam Chair, I've been asked a lot of questions lately about revolving funds, and I haven't received a lot of positive response to them from the department, from their experts, and there's a number of reasons for that. One of them is if you start to put money into the revolving fund, well for one, if it sits in a revolving fund, it doesn't actually get appropriated and approved in the House. So in terms of being able to maintain control over what the spending actually is by the government, the minute it goes off into a revolving fund it doesn't get approved here. And I would be, you know, remiss as the department -- Minister of Finance for the government to say we shouldn't be appropriating our money here at this Chamber in this process.

Another challenge is that if you put the money in the revolving fund and it's a certain amount but it's not enough, again it's more difficult to necessarily draw from other sources as opposed to the consolidated revenue fund, which is the ultimate bank account of the Government of the Northwest Territories, which is where all the money comes from. So if there's a program or service that starts to be in greater need or become a greater priority as we have seen priorities evolve over the life of the Assembly, it's easy to adjust, again, in the course of where we spend and how we spend if it's part of that overall budgeting process.

And the last comment on this, more specific to the question, Madam Chair, is the addictions side of this issue really is a health and social services area of expertise. The departments did work together because we had, of course, the Liquor Act work going on and the development of the alcohol and addictions strategy happening. So the two leads on that were meeting regularly and I understand were trying to make their work at least not be contradictory one to the other. Thank you.

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Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. Member for Great Slave.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Katrina Nokleby

Katrina Nokleby Great Slave

Thank you. Then my question is why is it revolving fund to begin with? I really struggle sometimes with understanding the accounting mechanisms that have been set up, the third arm, health's -- you know, the third arm's length health authorities, the housing corp, or NWT Housing not being a department. Like, why did we decide to do it this way; what makes this worthwhile if we can't then control it? Thank you.

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Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. Minister.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Caroline Wawzonek

Caroline Wawzonek Yellowknife South

Thank you, Madam Chair. That -- I guess I set myself up for that one. Madam Chair, so, I mean, we have the liquor and cannabis commission, which is the entity responsible for actually doing the sales of the liquor and now cannabis. So the revolving fund really does fund those operations and as soon as they have an excess, they don't make a profit; that money goes back to the consolidated revenue of the Government of the Northwest Territories. But by keeping it separate, they do -- they can run their own operation, and -- yes, separate unto themselves which I would say is not necessarily an area that I'm keen to see myself have to get too involved into the actual buying and selling of the liquor. Thank you.

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. Anything final, Member for Great Slave?

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Katrina Nokleby

Katrina Nokleby Great Slave

Seeing as the Minister left me, like, 15 seconds, I really do want to ask a question; however just -- I won't. That could be her reward. So thank you, Madam Chair. Thanks.

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Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

All right. Are there any further questions under the information items? Seeing none, thank you, Members, please return now to the departmental summary found on page 149. Revenue summary, information items on page 150. Are there any questions? No further questions, I will now call the department summary.

Finance, operations expenditures, total department, 2023-2024 Main Estimates, $337,534,000. Member for Frame Lake.

Kevin O'Reilly

Kevin O'Reilly Frame Lake

Merci, Madam la Presidente. I move that this committee defer further consideration of the estimates for the Department of Finance at this point. Mahsi, Madam Chair.

The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

The motion is in order. To the motion.

Some Hon. Members

Question.

The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Question has been called. All those in favour? All those opposed? The motion is carried. Consideration of Department of Finance, 2023-2024 Main Estimates, operating expenditures, total department, is deferred.

Thank you, Minister. Thank you to the witnesses for appearing before us. Sergeant-at-arms, please escort the witnesses from the Chamber.

Member for Frame Lake, what is the wish of committee?

Kevin O'Reilly

Kevin O'Reilly Frame Lake

Merci, Madam la Presidente. I move that the chair rise and report progress. Mahsi.

The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

There's a motion on the floor to report progress. The motion is in order and non-debatable. All those in favour? All those opposed? The motion is carried.

---Carried

I will now rise and report progress.

---SHORT RECESS

Report Of Committee Of The Whole
Report Of Committee Of The Whole

March 9th

Page 5849

The Speaker

The Speaker Frederick Blake Jr.

May I please have the report of Committee of the Whole. Member for Inuvik Twin Lakes.

Report Of Committee Of The Whole
Report Of Committee Of The Whole

March 9th

Page 5849

Lesa Semmler

Lesa Semmler Inuvik Twin Lakes

Mr. Speaker, your committee has been considering Tabled Document 813-19(2), 2023-2024 Main Estimates, and I would like to report progress with one motion passed. And, Mr. Speaker, I move that the report of the Committee of the Whole be concurred with.

Report Of Committee Of The Whole
Report Of Committee Of The Whole

March 9th

Page 5849

The Speaker

The Speaker Frederick Blake Jr.

Thank you, Member for Inuvik Twin Lakes. Do we have a seconder? Member for Yellowknife South. All those in favour? All those opposed? Any abstentions? The motion is carried.

---Carried

Third reading of bills. Mr. Clerk, orders of the day.

Orders Of The Day
Orders Of The Day

March 9th

Page 5849

Clerk Of The House Mr. Tim Mercer

Orders of the day for Monday, March 27th, 2023, 1:30 p.m.

  1. Prayer
  2. Ministers' Statements
  3. Members' Statements
  4. Returns to Oral Questions
  • Oral Question 1343-19(2), Impacts of COVID-19 on Education
  • Oral Question 1404-19(2), Child Care Funding Supports for Teen Parents
  • Oral Question 1411-19(2), Renewable Energy
  1. Recognition of Visitors in the Gallery
  2. Acknowledgements
  3. Oral Questions
  4. Written Questions
  5. Returns to Written Questions
  6. Replies to Commissioner Address
  7. Petitions
  8. Reports of Committees on the Review of Bills
  9. Reports of Standing and Special Committees
  10. Tabling of Documents
  11. Notices of Motion
  12. Motions
  13. Notices of Motion for First Reading of Bills
  14. First Reading of Bills
  15. Second Reading of Bills
  • Bill 64, An Act to Amend the Legislative Assembly and Executive Council Act, No. 3
  • Bill 76, An Act to Amend the Electoral Boundaries Act
  1. Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
  • Bill 23, An Act to Amend the Public Utilities Act
  • Bill 29, Resource Royalty Information Disclosure Statute Amendment Act
  • Bill 60, An Act to Amend the Petroleum products and Carbon Tax Act
  • Bill 61, An Act to Amend the Ombud Act
  • Bill 63, An Act to Amend the Official Languages Act
  • Bill 66, An Act to Amend the Property Assessment and Taxation Act
  • Bill 67, An Act to Amend the Fire Prevention Act
  • Bill 68, An Act to Amend the Child Day Care Act
  • Bill 73, An Act to Amend the Legislative Assembly and Executive Council Act, No. 4
  • Committee Report 40-19(2), Standing Committee on Government Operations Report on Bill 61: An Act to Amend the Ombud Act
  • Committee Report 42-19(2), Standing Committee on Government Operations Report on Bill 61: An Act to Amend the Ombud Act
  • Committee Report 43-19(2), Standing Committee on Government Operations Report on Bill 63: An Act to Amend the Official Languages Act
  • Committee Report 44-19(2), Special Committee on Reconciliation and Indigenous Affairs Final Report: A Northwest Territories Approach to the United Nations Declaration on the Rights of Indigenous Peoples and Negotiating Agreements
  • Committee Report 47-19(2), Report on Homelessness Prevention: Supporting Pathways to Housing NWT Residents
  • Minster's Statement 264-19(2), Response to the NWT Chief Coroner's Report on Suicide
  • Tabled Document 681-19(2), Government of the Northwest Territories Response to Committee Report 26-19(2): Report on the Child and Family Services Act - Lifting Children, Youth and Families: An All of Territory Approach to Keeping Families Together
  • Tabled Document 694-19(2), Northwest Territories Coroner Service 2021-2022 Early Release of Data
  • Tabled Document 813-19(2), 2023-2024 Main Estimates
  • Tabled Document 881-19(2), Supplementary Estimates (Infrastructure Expenditures), No. 3, 2022-2023
  • Tabled Document 882-19(2), Supplementary Estimates (Operations Expenditures), No. 3, 2022-2023
  • Tabled Document 883-19(2), Supplementary Estimates (Infrastructure Expenditures), No. 1, 2023-2024
  1. Report of Committee of the Whole
  2. Third Reading of Bills
  3. Orders of the Day

Orders Of The Day
Orders Of The Day

March 9th

Page 5850

The Speaker

The Speaker Frederick Blake Jr.

Thank you, Mr. Clerk. This House stands adjourned until Monday, March 27th, 2023 at 1:30 p.m.

---ADJOURNMENT

The House adjourned at 5:48 p.m.