This is page numbers 5827 - 5874 of the Hansard for the 19th Assembly, 2nd Session. The original version can be accessed on the Legislative Assembly's website or by contacting the Legislative Assembly Library. The word of the day was know.

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Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

March 9th

Page 5847

Caitlin Cleveland

Caitlin Cleveland Kam Lake

Yeah, thank you, Madam Chair. And I'm good with that. And I think too what would kind of be helpful is to kind of -- is to better understand what the steps are in getting there and more from a high level. Like, I'm not asking to create a framework before you create a framework. But understanding, you know, are we -- is this, you know, a three, four, five, ten-year transition for the GNWT? Because my concern is from kind of the human side of it where, you know, how do we track and use and analyze data to be more strategic in our decision-making if all the systems that we need to be able to talk one another aren't able to do that. And so I look forward to continuing this conversation with the Minister. Thank you.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. Are there any further comments under the Office of the Chief Information Officer? Seeing none, please turn to page 166.

Finance, Office of the Chief Information Officer, operations expenditure summary, 2023-2024 Main Estimates, $21,834,000. Does committee agree?

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Page 5847

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

March 9th

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you, committee. We will now to the Office of the Comptroller General, beginning on page 169 with information items on page 170 and 171. Are there any questions?

Seeing no questions, please turn to page 169.

Finance, Office of the Comptroller General, operations expenditure summary, 2023-2024 Main Estimates, $93,016,000. Does committee agree?

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

March 9th

Page 5847

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

March 9th

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

There are additional information items on page 172 to 175. Are there any questions? Member for Frame Lake.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Kevin O'Reilly

Kevin O'Reilly Frame Lake

Thanks, Madam Chair. I started to ask some questions about the heritage fund before and then it twigged me to some -- I think I got an explanation for this but I'm still not quite sure about this.

So there's figures shown on the heritage fund, on page 172, then in the -- there's a Roman numeral 14, there's a summary of resource revenue sharing, and the contributions to the heritage fund shown on that page are not the same as what I seem to see on page 172. And they're out by, you know, literally millions of dollars. So what are these two line items actually showing and why are they different? Thanks, Madam Chair.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

March 9th

Page 5847

The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. Minister.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Caroline Wawzonek

Caroline Wawzonek Yellowknife South

Madam Chair, let's hand this to Mr. Courtoreille, please.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. Mr. Courtoreille.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Courtoreille

Thanks, Madam Chair. The schedule on page Roman numeral 14 is the summary of the resource revenue sharing. And that's a schedule that shows the breakdown of how resource revenues would be shared between Indigenous governments and ultimately with the heritage fund. It's really a different schedule than what is presented over in the finance section under the information item for the heritage fund. You can track the actual contribution to the heritage fund for the actual year. So for 2021-2022, it was $5.6 million. And Members will see that over in the corresponding schedule for the heritage fund. But for those future years, the heritage fund schedule just shows the amount of the budget that the Department of Finance has appropriated for. Thank you, Madam Chair.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

March 9th

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. Member for Frame Lake.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Kevin O'Reilly

Kevin O'Reilly Frame Lake

Thanks for that. So then if there's actuals shown on Roman numeral 14, I can see how it lines up with 2021-2022 back on page 172. But 2022-2023, there's just this placeholder amount of $7.6 million on page 172 whereas on Roman numeral 14 it actually shows, you know, $2.026 million, which is significantly less than 7.6. So which figure is right, and why wouldn't we be using the actuals that are shown on 14 put them into 172? Thanks, Madam Chair.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. Minister.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Caroline Wawzonek

Caroline Wawzonek Yellowknife South

Thank you, Madam Chair. So, again, 172 is just the budgeted -- and I shouldn't say "just." It is a budgeted amount. There are other numbers within the budget that are based on a projection, then there are standard bases by which they come up with the projections, while meanwhile over on the -- yeah, we don't put actuals into the budget, you just put budgeted or projected amounts. That's where you will see the way the department's budgets get built up, of having the actuals. Main estimates is the budget, then the revised is things that have changed over time, and then finally ending again with new main estimates.

But I can go back one more time and perhaps to -- yes, the only number that you're going to see common is the 2021-2022 contribution because at this point we know what that actual number was. The actuals for what the actual revenue was and then the grants to start to derive what the revenue is and what the contribution amounts will be that starts to feed into future years. But the 7.6 is still a historical, just average, not based on what an actual presented number would be. I'll stop there and see if that's got me any further, Madam Chair.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. Member for Frame Lake.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Kevin O'Reilly

Kevin O'Reilly Frame Lake

Okay. No, I'm sorry. Okay, look, I get that 2023-2024 is a guesstimate. We're budgeting ahead there. But for 2022-2023, the one on Roman numeral 14 seems to show actuals unless I'm totally out to lunch. So I can see where the -- you know, for 2021-2022, the $5,656,000 lines up with other income for 2021-2022 on page 172. But why is there just like this $7.6 million then for 2022-2023 in the main estimates when, you know, on page 14 it shows $2.026 million there's a contribution to the heritage fund.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

March 9th

Page 5848

The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. Minister.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Caroline Wawzonek

Caroline Wawzonek Yellowknife South

Thank you, Madam Chair. So, again, it's -- yes, I mean, I'm not sure if we're going to get past this, Madam Chair. So 7.6 is just -- it's a budget estimate and in 14, it is where we are at in terms of the revenue forecast. I suggest let me try one more time if I can get Mr. Courtoreille to just walk through the math, both of the 7.6 of how we calculate it, and then compared to the math on how we calculate at page 14, please.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. Mr. Courtoreille.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Courtoreille

Thanks, Madam Chair. So just to clarify, the amounts on Roman numeral page 14 for the year 2022-2023, those are still budgeted numbers; they're not actual numbers. And for the revised main estimates, we're forecasting that number to be $3.8 million. But it will likely be a different number once the actuals come in. We don't know what the exact number will be. Eventually, once those actuals are sorted out, you'll see that actual contribution to the heritage fund reflected on the heritage fund schedule under the Department of Finance. The 7.6 number is the appropriated number that the department has in its budget, and it seems reasonable to put that for those budget years going forward. Thank you, Madam Chair.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Page 5848

The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. Member for Frame Lake.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Kevin O'Reilly

Kevin O'Reilly Frame Lake

I think it's too late in the day for me to try to quibble about whether we're going to use actuals when we actually know the amount versus budgeted amounts that are not reflective of reality. So I think I'll just stop there. Thanks, Madam Chair.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. Member for Great Slave.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

March 9th

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Katrina Nokleby

Katrina Nokleby Great Slave

Thank you, Madam Chair. I would like to ask some questions around the liquor and cannabis revolving fund. And I note that NWTers are increasingly spending more money on cannabis, according to our main estimates here. Seeing an over $1 million rise from last year. So my question is -- and I'm going to caveat this with that I grew up in British Columbia. So the cannabis culture has been around for a very long time in that province. And through that, there's a lot of, you know, opportunities for things such as cafes and other cannabis-related businesses that are currently at the moment not allowed in the Northwest Territories. And I guess my question is there a plan at any point to look at this -- to this sort of operating model of just the government selling and such and maybe really look at cannabis as a bit of our economic diversity type portfolio and see if there's a place there for a bit of a cannabis retail or sector? Thank you.