I would like to call this meeting of the Territorial Leadership Committee to order. I would like you to rise and I ask Mr. Tommy Enuaraq to lead us in prayer this morning.

---Prayer

I think all Members have a copy of the agenda in front of them. The next item on the agenda is the review and adoption of agenda. Are there any additions or deletions to the agenda? If not, is the agenda adopted? Agreed?

Agreed.

---Agreed

This is the first meeting of the Territorial Leadership Committee of the Members of the 13th Legislative Assembly. By way of some procedural items, you have the agenda in front of you and it is translated. You also have in your blue packages the rules and procedures for the leadership committee. There are eight items that just help Members to address how you will go through this committee today and tomorrow. Also, I would like to advise that, of course, we have interpretation in Inuktitut, North and South Slavey and Dogrib which is available to Members throughout the next two days. I think you can get used to your receivers which are here. Your volume and your channel selection is all in front of you as well.

Members should be aware that they're not required to turn on their microphones; they will be automatically be turned on for you. The Chair, once you have elected your Speaker-elect, will assume the Chair of the Territorial Leadership Committee and will have total control of the committee.

Also in front of Members, when there are speeches to be made, there is a timing mechanism in the Chamber, and the countdown will be on there for those Members who wish to make speeches. So when it comes to speeches today or tomorrow, you'll be able to see the time frame that you have left on your monitor in front of you.

We are being recorded for television and will be rebroadcasting proceedings on TVNC this evening and again tomorrow, and also CBC will be carrying certain portions of the proceedings live on their network.

This is a less formal committee than in the House itself. When Members do wish to speak, they have an option of remaining seated or they can stand. Probably the best thing for the majority of the time would be if you would remain seated if it's not for actual speeches later on today. But the choice of that is yours.

The next item on the agenda is item 5, the election of the Speaker. You have in your blue packages the Speaker selection guidelines. They are available if you don't have a copy. I think you all have them. They're in your blue package and they are fully translated as well.

My first duty is to open the floor for nominations for the position of Speaker. Are there any nominations? Mr. Enuaraq.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I wish to nominate Samuel Gargan, the Member for Deh Cho, for the position of Speaker. Thank you.

Mr. Sam Gargan, Member for Deh Cho, has been nominated for the position of Speaker. Mr. Gargan, do you accept the nomination?

Mr. Chairman, would like to thank Mr. Enuaraq for nominating me. Yes.

The nomination has been accepted by Mr. Gargan. Are there any further nominations for the position of Speaker? Being there no further nominations, I therefore declare that you have elected Mr. Sam Gargan to be your Speaker-designate.

---Applause

I would now like to ask Mr. Gargan if he would take over the Chair of the Territorial Leadership Committee as Speaker- designate.

Thank you, Members. I would like to call this meeting back to order. Prior to proceeding with the next agenda item, I would like to express my appreciation to all the Members for electing me to be your Speaker-designate of this Assembly. I will say more on this on Wednesday when the House is officially opened.

The next item of business is item six, the number of seats on Cabinet. The floor is open for discussion on the item. I think most Members got a copy of the information that was provided regarding that item. General comments on the issue. Mr. Ningark.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Congratulations to you an9 good morning. During the 12th Assembly, Mr. Chairman, the Members of the Legislature of the NWT talked about the possibility of having an extra position on Cabinet. The Members of the 12th Assembly felt that there was a need in the House -- some of the Members at least...Other Members felt that, because of the financial restraint we are in, it would cost extra dollars to have a position within the government and would also increase the bureaucracy in the system. Some Members also felt -- because I know this because I was the chairman of the Ordinary Members' Caucus -- the Premier, at the time, was overworked. Some Members felt that the Premier's job was to direct the Cabinet and the government in this case. Members felt that the Government Leader was taking on too many responsibilities in the system, thereby allowing her to now have enough time to do the directing and overseeing the operation of the government.

We've talked about this on more than one occasion. My feeling, Mr. Chairman and my colleagues, is that given the fiscal restraint that we are in today would it be ideal to have an extra position in the government, thereby having to come up with more money when we all know, it's public knowledge, that we don't have all the money in the world that we used to have some time ago. There are some programs and services are needed that we might be cutting back in the system.

When I travel throughout my region, I find people and see people who are in need of the services and programs of this government. It is my personal feeling, Mr. Chairman, that if we have to come up with an extra position in the government and increase the bureaucracy in the system at the detriment of the people who are in need of the services that I would not be in the position to support that. But if, in fact, the money could be found internally, perhaps I would support it.

At this point in time, I will listen to my colleagues to find out where the money is going to be coming from, what the government's financial position is and from there I will be able to make a decision. At this point in time, I am just making a point. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Ningark. General comments. Mr. Kakfwi.

I want to recognize the president of the Metis Nation, Mr. Gary Bohnet. Welcome to the Assembly.

---Applause

We are still on item 6, number of seats on Cabinet. Are there any more general comments? Mr. Arlooktoo.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I would like to make a few comments on this issue. As I understand it, it was put on the agenda with the suggestion that there be a ninth Minister. I would really like to hear from those Members who are willing to fight hard for that idea.

Like the two previous Speakers, I have serious concerns about the cost of the ninth Minister, especially in this day and age when we are faced with impending cutbacks and a serious deficit situation. My view is that the ninth seat was put forward, as I understand it, because there is concern that in the last Assembly the workload was not divided evenly and some Ministers were overworked. I think partly this concern can be addressed by the new Premier, whoever that may be, by ensuring that the portfolios and the workload is divided evenly. Once we get into questions for the Premier candidates, those are some questions we can ask.

I am very concerned also that creating a ninth seat will be like the new Assembly creating a new job for ourselves. As I said, I would like to hear arguments for the ninth seat and hear exactly why it is we need the ninth seat. I have heard the cost of a new Minister may be upwards of $200,000 to $250,000 a year, including the salaries, travel money, staff and all the other costs that go with it. By the end of our term, this new Minister may cost the government an extra $1 million. That, to me, is unconscionable when we may be asking the regions to lower the student/teacher ratios perhaps, or asking the health centres to buy less equipment, or when we are telling our people that we can't afford to build any new houses.

I would like to be as open as possible with new ideas, so if I am convinced that we do need this seat, the costs should be in-house, as Mr. Ningark said. It should be paid for perhaps by cutting MLAs' salaries, cutting salaries of Cabinet Ministers or reducing our travel budgets. I can't see that happening because of the workload over the next few years leading up to division. So if we really do need it, I can't see putting any new money into it. That is all.

Thank you, Mr. Arlooktoo. Just to remind Members, while we are in the Chamber, anyone who is sitting in this seat is "Mr. Chairman." It is only when you are in the big seat that it becomes "Mr. Speaker."

Also, I want to apologize because I didn't know that the Commissioner of the Northwest Territories was here. Helen Maksagak, welcome to the Assembly.

---Applause

Mr. Miltenberger.

I would also like to recognize a former Member of the Legislative Assembly, Mr. Pete Fraser.

---Applause

Mr. Ootes.

Thank you, Mr. Ootes. I would also like to recognize in the gallery, a former Member, Mr. Tony Whitford. Welcome to the Assembly.

---Applause

Looking good, Tony. Mr. Enuaraq. I apologize if I didn't say your name property.

(Translation) Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I, too, have some statements I would like to express. As we are all aware here within this Chamber, we know from the new territorial government and we're all aware of the population and the shortage of jobs for the people within the Northwest Territories. Many people are unemployed and we have to start providing a means of finding employment within the next three and a hallyears, during our tenure here as a new government. We are facing serious financial constraints worth a possible deficit of $100 million.

With these concerns in mind and the lack of financial availability, it's important that we remember that our priorities should include providing jobs for our aboriginal people living within the Northwest Territories. If we are going to lose jobs, then I believe if we are going to cuts jobs we should start with our own government in the higher levels; not from the bottom up, but from the top down. I'm not trying to say that I disagree with increasing the number of Cabinet Members, but the people who are my colleagues here should understand that this $250,000 will have to be set aside to provide salary and benefits for an extra Minister shou ld we decide upon that.

If we are mindful of our constituencies, we first have to look at their jobs and are they losing jobs at the same time. The people who have elected us, i1they are to lose their jobs, then I don't think we should be creating another position for Minister. I see this as a conflict. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Thank you, Mr. Enuaraq. General comments? Mr. Todd.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Let me, first of all, congratulate you on your appointment as Speaker. I wish all my colleagues here today a fond hello.

We are in the final days of this new government. Three and a half a year from now we are going to divide the Territories, East and West. My understanding, historically, is we have always approached the Cabinet from a balanced point of view. I wonder who can answer the question if it is perceived, or otherwise, that it isn't balanced any longer. There is a possibility that the public and some of our constituents could say that. That is an important question we have to ask ourselves.

I, like some of my colleagues, believe that the cost of this is way in excess of $250,000. I would suspect we could be looking at as much as $500,000 over a three-and-a-half-year period. That is a lot.of money. It is fine to say we will get the money internally, but you explain to me how we are going to gel it internally if it is $500,000. Perhaps the Clerk could clarify that later today, Mr. Chairman. It is important to understand the cost of this new Cabinet post that has been suggested.

I ran for office knowing the workload that that was expected of me by my constituency and by the larger constituency in the Northwest Territories. I ran for office knowing that I had to work ten hours a day, seven days a week to make things happen for the people I represent and the people that you represent. As a Cabinet Minister, I have worked hard to try to represent the territorial interests and, at the same time, balance off my interests in looking after my constituency, on an individual and community basis. I was one of those Ministers who was fortunate enough -- I saw it that way, anyway -- to have three portfolios plus two corporations. I found no difficulty handling my responsibilities. Granted, there is some stress but let's not overplay the fact that we ran for office knowing what we were getting into. We ran for office knowing that there were some difficulties ahead. I ran for office knowing that I was prepared to meet the challenge. I know many of you did also.

As my colleague, Mr. Ootes, said earlier, perhaps it is a little premature to appoint the ninth Member, given that the public may view this as a shameful waste of money. I think perhaps we should be listening to what Mr. Ootes says and we should be giving the new Premier, whoever he or she may be, the opportunity to assign the portfolios to the Members; whoever is elected as Minister. I have every confidence -- and I know almost everyone here -- that with the changes in the process that we discussed over the last two or three days, we are going to provide a mechanism for greater participation by ordinary Members, a process that is going to be more open and that will lessen the workload in terms of trying to reach a consensus on important issues.

I want to be very clear that I am not supportive, at this time, of the ninth Member. I think the costs are way in excess of $250,000. I am confident my constituency, and yours, would say that would be an inappropriate expenditure, given the difficulties that we are all facing. How do you tell someone who doesn't have a house that you can't have that house, we have appointed a new Minister. Ask yourselves that question. Whether it is perceived or real, we have to give the new Cabinet and the new Premier the time to grapple with these difficult issues and ensure that there is a fair and equal distribution of the workload. I am confident with some of the new people and the energy I have seen over the last week, we can accomplish that.

So, at this time, Mr. Chairman, I wouldn't be in a position to support the ninth Member of Cabinet.

Thank you, Mr. Todd. I would also like to recognize a former Member of the last Assembly , Mr. Brian Lewis. Welcome to the Assembly.

---Applause

Mr. Picco.

Thank you, Mr. Gargan. I would also like to congratulate you also on your election as Speaker. I would support the position of another Cabinet Minister, if that position was solely responsible for the division of the Northwest Territories. Right now, the haphazard and ad hoc basis doesn't seem to be strong. Appointing a Minister solely for the responsibility of the division of the Territories in 1999 would show a clear signal to Ottawa that the GNWT is moving ahead on division and that they had better start catching up.

I also believe that if the dollar values are there out of the existing budget, we could appropriate those. I also agree with the honourable Member for Yellowknife Centre, Mr. Ootes, that maybe we should revisit this in the next four to six months with the new Premier and Cabinet based on what has happened with the federal government and division.

The existing dollars and the cost of the ministerial position, because we aren't sure of that, would make it very difficult at this time to go ahead and appoint the ninth Cabinet seat. I am in support of it if that Cabinet seat was for division and if the dollars were available. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Picco. I am just jotting down the names as I see your hands raised. Mr. Evaloarjuk.

(Translation) Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I agree with the idea that we should not support an extra Minister's position at this time. My reasons being that we will have to go back to our constituencies and the people who we represent to consult them, as to how they view this concern. We are told about the deficit possibly ranging in the $100 million mark. We should find out from our people directly as to which programs and services they think we should cut if we have to do some cutting, keeping in mind that some people are also on welfare. Let us go back to our communities and find out what they think we should cut. Once we get this information from our communities, we would be in a better position to make adecision.

We should stay with the status quo. Once we leave for our communities, we can talk about these concerns with our people. Then we can discuss them again either in January or February, when we meet again. Thank you.

Kevin O'Brien and then Mr. Dent.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Congratulations on your acclamation to Speaker. Regarding this issue, I would have great difficulty supporting this at the present time. However, I could support it if someone were to say that there were no costs involved and Nunavut would be guaranteed the seat. The chances of that are slim to none.

Bravol

I really don't see that happening. In all seriousness, I couldn't support it at this time. I don't mean to be funny, but I don't think supporting this seat that it would sit very well with northerners, especially people in the Kivallivik region. We still have people in our region whose houses still have honey buckets. So I think that says it all. Thank you:

Thank you, Mr. O'Brien. Mr. Charles Dent. General comments.

Thank you, Mr. Dent. Mrs. Manitok Thompson and then Vince Steen. Mrs. Thompson.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I would also like to congratulate you, Sam, for being our Speaker again. I would just like to say that I'm not going for the ninth seat unless the ninth seat is going for Nunavut. With our consensus style of government, we're talking about a balance. I would find it very hard to see the Cabinet five for the West and four for the East. I don't think that we need to add more numbers to the Cabinet to be an efficient government if everybody is committed to their jobs. I realize there is going to be a lot of stress and that there is a lot of stress being a Minister if you have a lot of responsibilities, I realize that. But at this time, I cannot support it with too many people who are on social welfare, with too many people out there who don't have jobs. We have to be efficient with the numbers that we've had in the past.

I don't think it's going to work out unless there is a better argument. I think we should have time to debate this and decide for the ninth seat, but at this time I'm not agreeing with a ninth seat with a consensus style of government. We see the Cabinet as four in the East and four in the West. By adding one more seat, the ninth seat would have to come from either the West or from the East. For myself, with division coming and with Nunavut coming for us, I would have to be guaranteed that the ninth seat is going to Nunavut for me to support this. It boils down to that.

I realize that as consensus government, everybody has to work together as a team, but at this time I can't support an extra seat. Also with the deficit, I cannot see myself at this level adding another position when we are in the situation we are in as a government.

The issue was raised that this Minister could probably have the responsibility of the division situation. I believe that each Cabinet Minister has the full responsibility in their portfolios to deal with division. I don't think it should be separated. Each Minister will have to be committed fully to the agenda of dividing the Territories. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Thank you, Mrs. Thompson. We have Mr. Vince Steen and then Floyd Roland. Mr. Steen.

Thank you, Mr. Steen. Mr. Roland.

Thank you, Mr. Roland . Mr. Jim Antoine and then Mrs. Groenewegen. Mr. Antoine.

Thank you, Mr. Antoine. Mrs. Jane Groenewegen and then Mr. Erasmus.

Thank you, Mrs. Groenewegen. Mr. Roy Erasmus and then Mr. David Krutko.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I would also like to congratulate you on your acclamation as Speaker.

I also cannot support this suggestion at this time. But having said that, I have to admit that there is a lot of stress on the Ministers because I have seen the Ministers drop like flies in the past. I know the workload is tremendous. I have often tried to reach Ministers at home at 7:30 in the morning before they went to work and they were already gone to breakfast meetings.

I also know the stress and the hardship caused by travel. In my past job, I did a lot of travelling and it was very hard on my wife and children. I can only imagine how difficult it is for the people who have had to move to Yellowknife to work here and leaving their families at home. It must be tremendous stress.

I think we have to look at the fact of whether it is only a cost or whether it is an investment. If we invest in another Minister, are we going to be able to operate more efficiently? Will this mean that departments will be better run? It is quite possible that they will be. It has been said that everyone knew the workload when they ran for the position. That is true, but it doesn't mean that everyone accepted that that workload had to remain the same. It could also mean that people came in here knowing that they wanted more Ministers.

We also have to remember that the deficit has to be reduced. There have been some good arguments raised for not having a Minister. We still haven't had a chance to look at the numbers related to the cost of adding a new Minister. I would like to see these costs.

We also know that we have a new committee structure. Perhaps the new committee structure will relieve the workload on the Ministers. Perhaps the Ministers will be able to handle the job. I am also in agreement that we should revisit this, but we should set a timetable so that we know when it will be revisited. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Erasmus. A number of Members have requested what it might cost for the extra position and we do have that information if Members are interested. Mr. Hamilton, would you please circulate that information to Members? I have Mr. David Krutko and then Mr. Jake Ootes. I would ask Mr. Ootes's cooperation to allow other Members who haven't spoken first to speak first and then we can get back to Mr. Ootes. Is that okay with you?

---Interjection

Thank you, Mr. Ootes. We have on the list then Mr. David Krutko and Mr. Kelvin Ng. Mr. Krutko.

Thank you, Mr. Krutko. Mr. Ng and then Mr. Morin.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I, too, would like to congratulate you on your election as Speaker. I don't want to be too long because I know a lot of Members have spoken and have articulated their positions already.

I would like to say that I am not in support of establishing a ninth position for primarily two main reasons. At this stage of our Assembly, as we lead towards division and in our consensus style of government, we have always tried to balance the East/West interest, whether it is on Cabinet, committees, in Caucus or in any position that is affiliated with the Assembly. The status quo should remain in place.

Secondly, there have been suggestions made that we could possibly finance this new Cabinet position internally. Regardless of that fact, even if we were able to do that, if we could that easily fund a Cabinet position, we should that easily be able to address our needs for job creation, housing, social programs and the other things that most of our constituents want us to address. It has been said that we expect there will be a major downsizing of government in the years to come. As my colleague, Mr. Floyd Roland, has said, we have to lead by example in this initiative.

Having said that, I know that Members have agreed that there may be a need to review this at a later date. I think that is very appropriate because we don't know what the new Premier and the new Cabinet composition is going to be at this time. We don't know what the distribution of the workload is going to be amongst the Cabinet by the new Premier and we don't know the capabilities of those Cabinet and Premier positions and how they are going to be able to handle it until we get them elected and on stream.

Having said that, Mr. Chairman, I know that the majority of Members have spoken already. I would like to propose...Sorry, that is it, Mr. Chairman.

Thank you, Mr. Ng. Mr. Don Morin and then Mr. James Rabesca.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I, too, would like to congratulate you on your acclamation as Speaker. Congratulations.

Four years ago, I supported a ninth Cabinet seat. Since that time, times have changed. I have learned a bit. We can't afford that ninth seat. It is as simple as that. If the price is $500,000, I think we can use that money better in the communities such as Lutsel K'e, Gjoa Haven, et cetera. We need the money to better fund our programs at the community levels. We are talking about cuts. If you want to talk about stress, it is at the community level as well. Look at our teachers. We have overcrowded classrooms. They work 12 hours a day. Some of them are very committed to their jobs. They have to work with handicapped children. They have to work with children who have behavioural problems. They are under a lot of stress. Some of them even put up with having rocks thrown at their house at night. That is stress.

Look at our social workers. They are overwhelmed with the social problems we have today. They are constantly being requested to offer their assistance to our constituents. They work many hours a day.

Also the small business person out there pulling their hair out at night because they can't make ends meet, wondering how they are going to make their bank payment the next day. That is stress.

Everyone knows what you are getting into when you put your name forward for a Cabinet position. Everyone knows you are going to be expected to work 10 or 12 hours a day. I remember when I first was elected to Cabinet four years ago,

I told my wife I will work one weekend. The next month I said, I am only going to work two weekends. I will spend the other two weekends at home. About a month later, I have no choice I have to work three weekends of the month. No problem. That is what you have to do to get the job done. That is what you are paid to do. You are paid a good wage as Minister. You are going to work and earn it. That is what you have to do.

So this time around, I am not supporting a ninth seat. We have competent people here. They are capable and willing to work. The biggest problem we had in the last Assembly was a lot of our time was spent in fighting on the floor of this House. That is where a lot of our energy went. If we use that energy positively, then the workload shouldn't be too bad and the stress shouldn't be too bad. So I am not going to support the ninth seat. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Morin. Mr. James Rabesca and then Mr. Seamus Henry.

Mr. Chairman, would also like to congratulate you on your new position as Speaker. When I say "new position," I am thinking that it has been a long time since I was an MLA back in 1970. It is kind of new being here again. I would like to congratulate you again for being acclaimed to your old post as Speaker.

For awhile, I was convinced to go for the ninth position. But, after listening to all of you, I think the money that is to be paid to the Minister's new position should be looked at to see if it could be better used on programs in communities rather than creating new posts.

This ninth position doesn't sound like a new item. There is talk about the probability of getting a Deputy Premier on-line. It seems to me that we are creating more positions again. I thought maybe we should consider it during the mid-term review. Maybe we should put this item back on the agenda. I don't feel that it is the proper time to support it. I feel that most Members feel the same way. Where I come from, people have thought that programs should be put in place and supported. Apparently, there will be a lot of cutbacks in the future. I don't think there is any room for new positions to be created. At this time, I don't think I will support it. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Thank you, Mr. Rabesca. Mr. Henry and then Mr. Ootes.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I would also like to congratulate you on your acclamation to position of Speaker for this next Assembly. I, initially, had some support for the addition of a ninth seat for the next Assembly. I have had the opportunity to do some research on the topic over this past weekend, and I found out that this item has come up for discussion at least a couple of times in the previous assemblies.

I believe that previous governments have had more resources to contribute than the government we have presently. I believe that it's fair to say that this government will not have the same financial resources to commit to government and providing services as we've had in the past we will have to be a lot more creative.

I've listened to previous Ministers, with experience, talk about the responsibilities and the workload of a position on Cabinet. I'm impressed by their comments that it is a doable task when you take on that position. I believe that this House will have to lead by example and demonstrate a willingness to even cut the resources we have in this House to operate in a fiscally responsible manner. We will just have to do more with less. I would, at this time, not support any motion that may be put before this group to increase the number of Cabinet positions. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Henry. For the Members who haven't spoken, do you wish to say anything? There are only two Members: Levi Barnabas and Mr. Michael Miltenberger. Mr. Jake Ootes.

Thank you, Mr. Ootes. They're just circulating the motion and the translated version.

The motion is in order. To the motion.

Thank you. To the motion. Mr. Kakfwi.

Thank you, Mr. Kakfwi. To the motion . Mr. Ningark.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. The extra position on Cabinet that we're talking about, I've heard my colleagues from my part of the region talk about whether or not an extra Minister's position should be for Nunavut.

Mr. Chairman, if there was an extra position on Cabinet, the ninth position that we've talked about, to help the people who that we label as living in the streets; if the position was to help the people, the mothers who are in need of help, when a member of the household is abusing the children and the mother; if the extra position was to help the student who at times goes to school without having breakfast; if the position was to help the elders who are being abused in their own when their cheque is cashed at a local outlet and subsequently the elders receive only part of their cheque, then I would be in a position to support this move, Mr. Chairman. I would, in fact, support it even with the limited dollars that we have in the system, but I know this is not going to be the case. We talked about zero tolerance during the last term. Some people indicated it doesn't have any teeth. If the position was going to help to make sure that zero tolerance now has real teeth, then I would be in a position to support that at this point in time. But we know that this is not going to be the case.

The motion indicated that this issue that we talked about will be looked at in six months' time. I think it is a good motion. When you're in a public arena such as we're sitting in today, that we do not kill the motion especially if it has merit in the system to make life easier for the people within the jurisdiction.

I think the motion has merit. If this were an idealistic world, I would be supporting it. Perhaps in six months' time, we will find out that, in fact, there is a need to have an extra position in the Cabinet.

Mr. Chairman, I will support the motion. I think it is a good motion. There will be time to talk about it within six months. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Ningark. To the motion. Mr. Antoine.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I will be supporting this motion. It's a good motion. It says that we will not be adding another Member to the Cabinet; however, we will be reviewing the possibility of a ninth Member to the Cabinet after six months. In my comments to the discussion earlier I indicated that I would like to see the numbers, and we've received some preliminary numbers that state that the total estimated cost per Minister is $539,000 and the estimated incremental costs of an additional Minister is $284,000, so this figure is quite substantial. Based on that, this motion is saying we will not be adding another Member to the Cabinet but we will be looking at it after six months, therefore I will be supporting this motion. Mahsi.

To the motion. Mr. Steen.

To the motion. Mr. Arlooktoo.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. When I first spoke, I had meant to congratulate you on your position but I didn't since it was the very first time I had spoken, but congratulations to you.

As I understand this motion, it basically says we'll keep the status quo and look at the issue six months down the road. I will be supporting this motion from the view of what the Member for Iqaluit had said that there are a lot of unknowns right now, partly with the budget and partly with division. If the Nunavut MLA's especially do not see satisfactory movement towards division and we have to be moving very quickly and very soon if we are to meet the deadline of April 1999, then perhaps it may be helpful to look at this issue again and to see if we can put in a Minister to deal with division issues. From that viewpoint -- and I've already spoken about my concern with the cost -- I will be supporting the motion.

To the motion.

Question.

Question is being called. All those in favour put up their hands. All those opposed? The motion is carried unanimously.

---Carried

---Applause

Before we go to the next item, can we take a break? We'll take a 15-minute recess.

---SHORT RECESS

The chair recognizes a quorum. We are on item 7, the position of Deputy Premier. Are there any general comments? Mr. Levi Barnabas.

(Translation) Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I would like to welcome you to your position as Speaker. I believe that when we elect the Premier, we have to believe in her and have confidence in her in this House. I believe she will be able to choose her own Deputy Premier. I would support that if they will come from the Nunavut area. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Barnabas. Mr. Enuaraq.

(Translation) Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I also believe that there are some problems that are faced by the Premier. The Premier has to travel great distances in the Northwest Territories. She has to keep on delegating her authority to one of the Ministers. If we assign a particular Deputy Premier, I think the Deputy Premier should come from the East. I would like to see the Deputy Premier come from the Nunavut area.

The Premier should not be the only one responsible to vote in his or her deputy. We should all be accountable. The Deputy Premier should come from the Nunavut area. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Enuaraq. General comments on the Deputy Premier? Mr. Vince Steen.

Thank you, Mr. Steen. Mr. Ningark.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, during the last Assembly, when the Premier was absent from the House travelling to another jurisdiction -- in most cases, a good cause -- ordinary Members would question the Cabinet to see who was the acting Premier. Most Members from the old Assembly will remember there were times when no one would know who was the leader of the pack. Mr. Chairman, I think there is a need for the Premier, in this particular Assembly. I don't like to prejudge the possible outcome. There is a very strong possibility that the Premier may be chosen from the Western Caucus. I would like to make it very clear that it hasn't come to a vote yet and I don't like to sound like I am picking someone. I am not.

However, I think we should look at the possibility of having the Deputy Premier coming from the East, if the Premier is chosen from the West and vice versa. There are many times in this House when no one seemed to know who the leader of the government when the Premier was travelling. I know that the travelling demands on the Premier are very great and I know it will remain practically the same, in order to ensure the interests of the people of the NWT are heard from other jurisdictions.

If the Premier is chosen from the West, the Deputy Premier should be appointed from the East. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Ningark. Mr. Enuaraq.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. First of all, I would like to congratulate you on your new position as Speaker of the House. As you know, I nominated you, so my nomination must have been pretty powerful.

---Laughter

I just want to make a little correction, in case I was misunderstood when I was talking Inuktitut. All of us in the House don't know yet, who the Premier is going to be. I was just trying to say if the Premier was going to be from the West, I would prefer to see a Deputy Premier from Nunavut. I just heard that some of my colleagues have misunderstood what I said. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Thank you for that clarification. Mr. Ng.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. First of all, I would like to say that I support the establishment of the position of Deputy Premier. There are many times that the Premier -- whoever he or she may be -- will be unavailable, travelling on behalf of the government and the residents of the Territories. I think we also have to give that individual, the Premier, the flexibility to decide his or her own Deputy Premier because, again, not knowing what the make-up of the Cabinet representation is going to be and not knowing how each of the Cabinet representatives are going to be able to handle the duties they are given, the Premier has to have that flexibility to decide who he or she thinks can best handle that position.

Having said that, I also recognize that the Premier, whether from the East or West, has to also, when making that decision, take into consideration, as we always have in this House, the East/West balance of power and responsibilities. So I would like to say that I support the position and I think it is up to the Premier to decide, ultimately, who his or her Deputy Premier should be. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Ng. General comments on the Deputy Premier? Mr. Erasmus.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I, too, support the creation of a Deputy Premier. I also support the position that the Premier chooses the Deputy Premier. This should not be an elected position.

At the same time, I also recognize the fact that we need to maintain a balance between the East and the West. The Premier should look at that. If the Premier is from the West, the Deputy Premier should come from the East and vice versa. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Erasmus. Mrs. Thompson.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I also support the position of the Deputy Premier and I support the Premier to select that person. We have to ensure that the Deputy Premier and the Premier would be able to communicate well with each other and work well with each other. I feel that the Premier should be able to select their Deputy Premier for that reason.

We have to make sure that the division process goes as smoothly as possible. I would like to trust the Premier to choose the individual he is working with. I support the idea that one would be from the West and one from the East. The Premier should consider that if he is from the East or the West. I feel that the Premier should be able to work well with the Deputy Premier and that he should have the responsibility of choosing his own Deputy Premier. Thank you.

Thank you, Mrs. Thompson. Mr. Arlooktoo.

Thank you. Mr. Chairman, I will be making a motion at this time if that's okay and then I'll speak to it.

Mr. Chairman, I move that the Tentorial Leadership Committee agrees that the Premier should choose his/her Deputy Premier;

And further, that the Premier should strongly consider the issue of East/West balance when making his/her selection for the position of Deputy Premier.

Thank you, Mr. Arlooktoo. The copies of the motion are being circulated. Mr. Arlooktoo, your motion is in order. To the motion.

Thank you. Very briefly, I very much believe that the Premier should be given the power to select the Deputy Premier. I don't think it does much good to tie the hands of the new Premier from the very beginning by perhaps selecting a deputy who perhaps a Premier may not be that comfortable working with. As a couple of the other speakers have said before, when we pick the Premier, we're giving that person the trust that they will be keeping the East/West balance on Cabinet as we will in this House. To further emphasize that, that is also said in the motion, that the East/West balance should be maintained. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Arlooktoo. Mr. O'Brien, to the motion.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I, too, agree with my colleagues here that there should be a Deputy Premier, and also that this is the first step in increasing the authority that the new Premier will have. What I'm saying is that the Premier should have the full authority to select his or her new Deputy Premier. If the Premier should be elected from the East, the deputy should come from the West and vice versa. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Thank you, Mr. O'Brien. Mr. Antoine, to the motion.

Mahsi, Mr. Chairman. To this motion that the Premier should choose his or her Deputy Premier, I will be supporting this motion because of the last Legislative Assembly where the Premier did not have a Deputy Premier and whenever the Premier travelled, sometimes there was nobody on Cabinet who was given the task to function in the Premier's position. Sometimes there were different Ministers filling that role, and I think that this is more of an internal Cabinet matter, and this motion is saying that it's up to the Premier to choose the Deputy Premier. I'm sure that once the people who are going to be Premier and on the Cabinet are selected, there will be an internal discussion on this matter as well. Further, the Premier should be considering the East/West balance. I think it's appropriate to do that basically because if the Premier is from the East, then the deputy should be from the other part of the Territories. This is to ensure that there is a split in the Cabinet to make sure that there's balance. I agree with that concept.

Further, I don't think this Deputy Premier position would be an additional cost because the Cabinet Members will be having their financial resources allocated. This added duty of a Deputy Premier should not be an additional cost; therefore, I will be supporting this motion. Thank you.

Thank you. Just to mention to the Members that I've written down all the names according to when their hands go up, so if I haven't gotten to you right away it's not because I'm ignoring you but it's according to the order I have. Mr. Ootes is next and then Mr. Henry.

Thank you, Mr. Ootes. Mr. Henry.

Mr. Chairman, I will speak against the motion as it's presented. I could support the initial part of the motion. I believe that the words "strongly consider the issue of East/West balance" is a way that this House can, for all intents and purposes, tie the hands of the person that we will, over the next period of time, elect to be the leader of the Government of the Northwest Territories. When we do elect an individual, from my perspective, I will be supporting the individual who I believe has good judgement and the integrity to know if there is a requirement for a Deputy Premier position.

Secondly, I would be opposed to tying the hands of that individual from being able to make that decision. I feel that the words "strongly consider" does not give enough consideration and does not leave enough consideration for the person we elect as Premier. Thank you.

Thank you. Mr. Evaloarjuk and then Mr. Todd.

(Translation) Thank you, Mr. Chairman. To the motion that is on the floor now. I am supportive of this motion as long as...We've just finished talking about not having nine Cabinet Ministers. If there is going to be a lot of money involved, then I may not support this. Is there any funding available for a Deputy Premier? Is this to the motion? Is there funding?

Okay. With regard to the guidelines right now, the mover cannot amend his own motion. Mr. Steen.

Just for a suggestion, if you look at your motion right up to Deputy Premier, we add "from those Members appointed to the Executive Council." Would that be your amendment?

I'll ask the Clerk of the Assembly to respond to that.

Mr. Chairman, the Legislative Assembly and Executive Council Act prescribes the salary for the Government Leader or Premier and the Ministers. There is no salary identified in legislation for the position of Deputy Premier, so there is nothing in legislation at this time that would allow that to happen.

Thank you. Mr. Todd.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Like my other colleagues, I support the motion. In the last Assembly, if I can just share with you, Mr. Antoine and I co-chaired the Special Joint Committee on Division. I think it was a difficult task, but due to the fact that we had a balance in terms of sentiment from East and West, it seemed to function reasonably well.

I support the motion and whoever he or she may be, I would hope that at the end of the day they would see the requirement for one, putting the right person in the job, as Mr. Henry said; and, two, that hopefully the balance would be there when that appointment is made. Thank you.

Thank you. Mr. Steen and then Mr. Miltenberger. To the motion.