Item 2, Ministers' Statements. Mr. Whitford.

Thank you, Mr. Whitford. Ministers' Statements. Madam Premier.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I realize that the honourable Member, Tony Whitford, had to spend a great deal of time to come to such a decision. Mr. Whitford is a fine man, a good man, a hard working man and an honest man. In our dealings with Mr. Whitford there was never a time when there needed to be extra effort put into the responsibility as a Cabinet Minister, that he was unwilling to take the extra time to do so, no matter how small or how big the task was.

I understand that Mr. Whitford has taken this step because although he has these qualities, technically he could not reach the expectations of the Legislative Assembly. I wish Mr. Whitford well. I hope we can continue with our working relationship and I hope that we continue to have his support. Thank you.

Thank you, Ms. Cournoyea. Ministers' Statements. Mr. Allooloo.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I would like to inform the Legislative Assembly of recent events concerning the environmental assessment of the proposed Great Whale hydroelectric project in northern Quebec.

In September 1992, the federal-provincial environmental assessment committees and panels issued the final guidelines for Hydro Quebec's Environmental Impact Statement. I am happy to report that the guidelines direct Hydro Quebec to examine potential impacts on the community of Sanikiluaq and to the marine ecosystem of the Hudson and James Bays. The guidelines also instruct Hydro Quebec to examine potential cumulative environmental effects. These issues are very important to the territorial residents of the Hudson Bay area. Over the past year the Department of Renewable Resources has been trying to secure intervenor funding from the federal government for northern organizations.

After persistent effort by the Government of the Northwest Territories, local communities and Members of the Legislative Assembly, the federal and Quebec Ministers of Environment awarded intervenor funding to two northern groups: the Sanikiluaq Environmental Committee received $480,000; and the Nunavut Environmental Coalition for Keewatin received $25,000.

The Department of Renewable Resources is coordinating the government's participation in the environmental assessment process through a working group which has representation from the Departments of Justice, Health and Social Services. The main tasks include reviewing the Environmental Impact Statement and intervening in the environmental assessment hearings.

The next major stage in the environmental assessment process will be the release of Hydro Quebec's Environmental Impact Statement. This is expected early in 1993. I will continue to update the Legislative Assembly on events related to the proposed Great Whale Hydroelectric project. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Ministers' Statements. Mr. Allooloo.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, last week, Canada's Parks, Wildlife, Forestry and Environmental Ministers made a formal commitment to complete the country's network of protected natural areas which include parks and wildlife sanctuaries by the year 2000. Conservation of habitat is essential for present and future generations of northern residents to continue harvesting fish, wildlife and forests. Our government will work with the federal government and land claim organizations, who are the other land owners in the north, to fulfil this commitment. We will also work with the land and resource users to assess the economic impact of the creation of any new parks.

At the tri-council meeting all Ministers agreed to support the Biodiversity Convention signed by the Prime Minister in Rio de Janeiro. Biodiversity means that we should try to maintain a wide variety of species, both plants and animals, by protecting the habitats which support them. The major action item will be to develop a strategy to implement the convention in Canada. This will be done by a federal/provincial/territorial working group. The Northwest Territories component will focus on designing and managing a protected area, promoting a wider application of traditional knowledge in biodiversity conservation and integrating conservation and sustainable use into decision making. In this way we hope to ensure that economic development will proceed without harming our natural resources which are essential to traditional lifestyles. In addition, Mr. Speaker, I would like to add that this was the first time that I have seen aboriginal organizations present at a Ministers' meeting. This reflects the greater recognition of aboriginal participation in intergovernmental forums. Thank you.

Item 2, Ministers' Statements. Item 3, Members' Statements. Mr. Pudluk.

Mr. Speaker, a number of times I have been called the dean Member. Sometimes, they call me the oldest Member. This time, I would like to speak about a person in this House. I have been here for 17 years. I do not have any more experience than you have. Since I have been called the dean I would like to say a few words about this Assembly. It is not going to be a precedent speech.

When this Assembly started in 1967, the government moved to the north. At that time there was only one government. That was the Commissioner. Secondly, there was a deputy commissioner. In 1975, there was the first fully elected 15 Member Assembly. I was there. At that time, I thought we had a hard time making policies and guidelines more suitable for the north. After that, we started talking about changing the government. There was no complaining about the Commissioner of duty. Even if we tried to complain, because there were no Ministers, he would say, "none of your business; it cannot be done." When he said no, we could not do anything about it.

Later on, we introduced the ministerial positions. We said, "All right, eight is good enough. Let us have eight Ministers." We did not fill those positions in one day. Some of those positions would wait for two years because there was confusion between those Ministers' positions. We were trying to take over the Commissioner's portfolio at the same time. The Commissioner said, "All right, it is time for me to go. You will take over." We filled those four ministerial positions. Later on, it was working smoothly.

Somehow, elections came and went by again and again. Jealousies seemed to be rising. "Why do I not have that power as a Minister? Why do the people in the north not treat me like a Minister?" One starts to feel that he/she should not be a Minister, that "maybe that guy is better than me." The other guy says, "No, I am better than him or her." It goes back and forth now. I think we are all accountable. No matter where you go, you will never find a better government. It does not matter how long you take or where you go, they will never be accountable. You wonder what is satisfactory with the government. Maybe one person out of this entire room is satisfied with this good government. All the other people will never be satisfied. I guarantee that is true. I am asking for the honourable Members' consent to continue.

The honourable Member is seeking unanimous consent. Are there any nays? There are no nays. Please proceed, Mr. Pudluk.

Mr. Speaker, I will conclude my speech. In my history since 1975, this is the worst thing that has happened is Ministers resigning this and last week. I have never seen this before. To be reasonable and agreeable, we seem to be always complaining about the Ministers. As elected Members sitting in this room, are we all accountable? Please judge yourself first if you want an accountable government. Thank you.

---Applause

That was an important statement from the dean of this House. Item 3, Members' Statements. Mr. Ningark.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Like my honourable colleague, Mr. Whitford, I believe in good government. The public believes in good government. We all want a good government.

Mr. Speaker, and all my colleagues, including this side, the public needs direction, not destruction. Mr. Speaker, we want a government that is unselfish, a government that is sensitive to the people that it serves. What is the perception of the public? We all know at this point in time.

Mr. Speaker, I pray to God that Mr. Whitford's resignation will be the last one until the Cabinet review.

Item 3, Members' Statements. Mr. Gargan.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, later on today the Legislative Assembly will consider "The Justice House" Report of the Special Advisor on Gender Equality. The honourable Members may be aware that I have not always been enthusiastic about the initiative, Mr. Speaker. However, I wish to indicate that I consider "The Justice House" Report of the Special Advisor on Gender Equality to be a significant document and one that is worthy of the full attention of this House.

As with any major comprehensive report, some of the findings are easy to agree with and some are not. I am pleased, for instance, to note the special advisor's recommendations regarding the use of clean language in the courthouse and court rooms, and I agree with her recognition of the need to encourage public education programs about legal systems. I fully support her recommendation that we should take a strong stance in demanding that the federal government maintain its commitment to cost shared funding for criminal injuries, compensation and victims' assistance. I am in complete agreement also with the special advisor's recommendation regarding the discipline of judges, including the development of a procedure of lodging anonymous complaints and the establishment of a code of contact and judicial ethics. Yes, Mr. Speaker, much of the contents of "The Justice House" is commendable.

I do wish to comment, however, on what I perceive as two disadvantages of this sort of review. First, I think it should be noted that the majority of the special advisor's findings raised issues that are relevant to both men and women who become involved in the justice system. In identifying certain issues as feminist issues or matters of gender equality, there is a risk that we may create a type of thinking that actually reinforces existing biases and can potentially lead to the development of even worse double standards.

Secondly, if we must identify certain shortcomings within the justice system as having an impact on women, then we should never lose sight of the fact that it is aboriginal...

Mr. Gargan, your allotted time has lapsed. Mr. Gargan.

Mr. Speaker, I would like to get unanimous consent to continue my statement.

The honourable Member is seeking unanimous consent. Are there any nays? There are no nays. Please proceed, Mr. Gargan.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker, and honourable Members. Secondly, if we must identify certain shortcomings within the justice system as having an impact on women, then we should never lose sight of the fact that it is aboriginal women who are being treated most unfairly. This is the truth that is not emphasized strongly enough in Ms. Peterson's report.

Mr. Speaker, I look forward to this afternoon's consideration of this report and I congratulate the Minister of Justice for ensuring that it has been placed on the orders paper in this House. Mahsi Cho, Mr. Speaker.

Item 3, Members' Statements. Mr. Patterson.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I rise today to report on further developments following the unfortunate fire at the Nanook School in Apex early yesterday morning.

Mr. Speaker, the community is working very hard to keep this school program going. At a community meeting held last night in Apex, parents and the Niaqunguut Education Council expressed their determination to carry on the school program in Apex. Busing students to Iqaluit is completely unacceptable to them and it has been decided that classes will continue in the I.O.D.E. hall until the Christmas break. In the new year, four available houses have been identified in Apex, two of them vacant G.N.W.T. staff houses, which could be utilized as classrooms. The community of Apex is grateful for the generous help which has been received locally from the Department of Public Works and Environmental Health in particular, making sure these houses will be suitable for classes in the new year.

Secondly, Mr. Speaker, the community is determined to work towards building a new school on the site of the old school and I am pleased that the Department of Education, the Divisional Board of Education, officials in the Department of Finance and the risk management section, headquarters D.P.W. are making every effort to move rapidly to assess the situation and begin the planning to replace this very successful community school. If insurance proceeds are available, this may ease the problem of identifying capital money. In any event, Mr. Speaker, I will be seeking the support of the government and the Members of this Assembly to move to deal with this unfortunate situation in my constituency as rapidly as possible. I hope to begin work in the coming fiscal year. Qujannamiik.

Item 3, Members' Statements. Mr. Koe.

Mahsi, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, about a week ago the Gwich'in Land Claim Settlement Act was tabled in the House of Commons and received first reading. It is hoped that this act will receive royal proclamation before Christmas of this year. This act will give constitutional protection for the first comprehensive land claim agreement since the Inuvialuit claim in 1984. It is also the first time that a comprehensive land claim agreement has provisions within it dealing with the self-government negotiations process and implementation plan. The act also creates a co-management land and water regulatory regime; a first in all of Canada between aboriginal people and the government. This model of co-management will probably become a standard for the Mackenzie Valley and I believe that it is already included in the Inuit agreement.

The Gwich'in seek, from both governments, fair consideration of the implementation of their agreement to allow for their goal of self-determination to be fulfilled. Regional boards will be an important element to the regulatory regime and I hope this government supports the Gwich'in position. I would also like to express my congratulations to the Gwich'in leadership, who have worked long hours and with the determination and unshakeable conviction that this agreement will create a better future for their people.

I hope that the Government of the Northwest Territories and this Legislative Assembly give them strong support and that they show the same support in dealing with all active claimant groups; the Inuit, the Dogrib, the Sahtu, Dene and Metis. Mahsi.

---Applause

Item 3, Members' Statements. Mr. Bernhardt.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I rise today with pride to congratulate three men from Coppermine who are the first recipients of building trades helpers certificates. Sandy Keadjuk, Joe Agliak and Harold Hemiak received their certificates of completion on Tuesday in Coppermine. These three young men earned their certificates by taking part in the Construction Worker Training Program developed by the Northwest Territories Construction Association with the assistance of the Departments of Education, Culture and Employment Programs; Government Services and the N.W.T. Housing Corporation.

This training program is designed to provide residents of the Northwest Territories with entry level certified training in the construction industry. The course includes classroom and workshop training organized by the Northwest Territories Construction Association. On the job training is provided by a contractor. This unique training program has numerous benefits. Those who earn a certificate are more employable and bring a wide range of valuable skills to the construction industry. Our northern communities will also benefit from having resident building trades helpers available across the Northwest Territories.

In closing, Mr. Speaker, I would like to ask my honourable colleagues to join me in congratulating these three young individuals. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

---Applause

Item 3, Members' Statements. Mr. Lewis.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. For the last year there has been something missing in this Assembly. One of the things that is missing is a sense of humour. There has been a tremendous amount of ill will. There has been too much tension. I rise today, Mr. Speaker, to pay tribute to a person whom I have got to know very well over the last four years. I am talking about my friend, Mr. Whitford. He and I have shared many days over on this side.

Today, Mr. Speaker, in paying tribute to him I want to point out that I am doing it with some difficulty because I have lost my voice from exposing it to this night air, to long days and long evenings. My wife tells me I should get sick more often because I sound sexier when I talk like this.

---Laughter

In fact, several people have told me that over the last few days.

---Laughter

Mr. Speaker, if my friend, Mr. Bernhardt, gets up next week and gives everyone a Christmas wish list and says, for Brian Lewis I want a big supply of potency pills, I will tell you, Mr. Speaker, there is nothing wrong with my potency. I also know there is nothing wrong with Mr. Whitford's potency. When he comes to sit on this side he and I will share good times because this man has all the things you would expect in a public figure. He has good humour, a good connection with his people, integrity and he works hard. What more could anybody want? I welcome him and I will be working with him again. Thank you.

Mr. Lewis, I am overwhelmed by your potency.

---Laughter

Item 3, Members' Statements. Item 4, Returns to Oral Questions. Mr. Kakfwi.

Excuse me, Mr. Kakfwi, I think we have a little trouble with the translation. It is all right. Proceed please, Mr. Kakfwi.

Returns to Oral Questions. Mr. Kakfwi.

Item 4, Returns to Oral Questions. Item 5, Oral Questions. Mr. Gargan.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. My question is directed to the Minister of the Workers' Compensation Board, but since we do not have a Minister responsible yet, I will direct my question to the Government Leader.

On September 23, I asked a question on whether earlier commitments to develop a policy for defining who is eligible to receive worker's compensation as a traditional harvester had been met. It was indicated that commitment had not been met and that the new policy is still being developed. In the absence of the new policy, can the Minister advise the House what definition the Workers' Compensation Board is using to decide who is and who is not eligible for compensation if they are injured in the course of traditional hunting, trapping or fishing activities?

Ms. Cournoyea.

Mr. Speaker, because the Department of Renewable Resources pays for the injuries that are caused by accidents out on the land or in pursuit of the traditional economy, the Department of Renewable Resources has developed a policy. I would like to defer that question to the Minister of Renewable Resources.

Mr. Allooloo.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. As our Premier mentioned, the department has developed a policy pertaining to the Workers' Compensation Board for the hunters and trappers. I believe that new policy is being reviewed by the W.C.B. and they are also working with my department for the final analysis of the policy. Thank you.

Supplementary, Mr. Gargan.

Thank you. Since the policy has not been approved, will the Minister tell this House if we are operating under the old policy?

Mr. Allooloo.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. At the present time, yes. I believe the new policy will be implemented as soon as the final analysis is done. I presume that the new policy will soon kick in. Thank you.

Item 5, Oral Questions. Mr. Patterson.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I would like to ask the Minister of Finance, was there fire insurance on the school in Apex which burned down yesterday?

Mr. Pollard.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, the school was insured. I believe the adjusters are there right now. The Department of Finance has sent someone to be there at the same time as the adjusters. I think there is a $25,000 deductible amount on that particular issue. It will depend on the outcome of the investigation. Thank you.

Item 5, Oral Questions. Mr. Gargan.

Thank you. Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Minister of D.P.W., Mr. Morin. In Mr. Morin's response about waiving the five per cent preference, he indicated that one of the reasons the local business was awarded the contract was because the supplier of the material had his own stock of inventory. That gave him the five per cent advantage. Am I correct in assuming that from now on, all bids that are being submitted, if the local supplier is supplying material they will have the five per cent advantage? In other words, the band councils, hamlets or other businesses in the communities will have the five per cent advantage? Am I correct?

Mr. Morin.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, to qualify for it, those companies fill out their application for the Business Incentive Policy. As for the example you are talking about in Fort Providence, the company applied for Business Incentive Policy preference and stated the goods and services that it offers through its business, and stated that it is a material supplier business in Fort Providence. So the five per cent preference applied. Thank you.

Item 5, Oral Questions. Supplementary, Mr. Gargan.

Am I correct in what I said earlier? In the Minister's response, he said that the portion that the band did not get the five per cent local preference on was the material it bought outside the community. The other bidder, under the Business Incentive Policy, is a supplier of the material. It stocks the material in its inventory for the general public to buy. If the bidder supplies the material then he has a five per cent advantage over a person that does not?

Mr. Morin.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. In that case you are correct.

Item 5, Oral Questions. Item 6, Written Questions. Item 7, Returns To Written Questions. Mr. Clerk.

Mr. Speaker, a Return to Written Question asked by Mrs. Marie-Jewell and responded to by the Premier on the activities of the Languages Commissioner.

The Commissioner of Official Languages, under the authority of the Official Languages Act, is appointed by and accountable to the Legislative Assembly. As Government Leader, it would be inappropriate for my office to provide the requested information.

The request for information on the activities of the Commissioner of Official Languages should be made to the Speaker of the Legislative Assembly.

Item 8, Replies to Opening Address. Item 9, Petitions. Item 10, Reports of Standing and Special Committees. Item 11, Reports of Committees on the Review of Bills. Item 12, Tabling of Documents. Ms. Cournoyea.

Mr. Speaker, I wish to tabled the following document, Tabled Document 26-12(3), Annual Report of the Superintendent of Child Welfare 1991 and 1992.

Tabling of Documents. Item 13, Notices of Motion. Item 14, Notices of Motions for First Reading of Bills. Mr. Allooloo.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I give notice that on Monday, December 7, 1992 I shall move that Bill 15, an Act to Amend the Wildlife Act, be read for the first time.

Notices of Motions for First Reading of Bills. Item 15, Motions. Item 16, First Reading of Bills. Mr. Morin.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I move seconded by the honourable Member for Sahtu that Bill 3, an Act to Amend the Northwest Territories Housing Corporation Act, be read for the first time.

Motion is in order.

Question.

Question has been called. All those in favour? All those opposed? Motion is carried.

---Carried

Bill 3 has had first reading. Item 17, Second Reading of Bills. Mr. Allooloo.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I would like to seek unanimous consent to go back to Item 16, First Reading of Bills.

The honourable Member is seeking unanimous consent to return to Item 16, First Reading of Bills. Are there any nays? There are no nays. Please proceed, Mr. Allooloo.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I move seconded by the honourable Member for Hay River, that Bill 15, an Act to Amend the Wildlife Act be read for the ...

You are out of order, Mr. Allooloo.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker and honourable Members. I seek unanimous consent to do a first reading on Bill 15.

The honourable Member is seeking unanimous consent. Are there any nays? There are no nays. Please proceed, Mr. Allooloo.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I move seconded by the honourable Member for Hay River, that Bill 15, an Act to Amend the Wildlife Act, be read for the first time.

The motion is in order.

Question.

Question has been called. All those in favour? All those opposed? The motion is carried.

---Carried

Bill 15 had has first reading. Item 16, First Reading of Bills.

I am sorry, Mr. Allooloo, I have been informed that the House is not in possession of the Bill. First reading has been withdrawn. Item 17, Second Reading of Bills. Item 18, Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters: Tabled Document 2-12(3), "The Justice House" Report of the Special Advisor on Gender Equality; Committee Report 1-12(3), Standing Committee on Finance Report on the Review of the 1993-94 Capital Estimates; Committee Report 3-12(3), Final Report of the Special Committee on Constitutional Reform; Committee Report 4-12(3), Report on the Review of the 1993-94 Capital Estimates for the Northwest Territories Housing Corporation; Bill 1 Appropriation Act, No. 1, 1993-94; Bill 9, an Act to Amend the Liquor Act; Bill 10, an Act to Amend the Income Tax Act; Bill 13, Supplementary Appropriation Act, No. 4, 1991-92; Bill 14, Supplementary Appropriation Act, No. 3, 1992-93; Appearance of the Languages Commissioner, with Mr. Nerysoo in the Chair.

The committee will now come to order. Thank you for your attention. Mr. Nerysoo.

Mr. Chairman, I believe that it was our intention to deal with Tabled Document 2-12(3), "The Justice House" Report of the Special Advisor on Gender Equality, today as the first item of business.

Does the committee agree that we deal with Tabled Document 2-12(3), "The Justice House" Report of the Special Advisor on Gender Equality. Agreed?

Agreed.

---Agreed

Mr. Nerysoo.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, before the Minister makes his opening remarks I wanted to bring some points to the attention of this House. Firstly, it is our intention to have a discussion on the report and not necessarily to conclude the discussion, nor the debate on the recommendations which have been made. As a result of this, we would hope that a major debate would take place after explanations have been given with regard to the recommendations from the Minister and from the Chairperson of the committee. It was also our view that we wish to have a major debate on the report, including the suggestions which were made previously and that was to consider inviting other persons and other organizations, such as the Council on the Status of Women, into the committee to make their views known to this House and to the government. I wanted to make these initial comments before the Minister got into debate on this particular item, so that he is aware of the issues, the concerns and the direction that we wish to take on this matter. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Nerysoo. Does the Minister have opening remarks? Mr. Kakfwi.

Introductory Remarks

Thank you, Mr. Minister. Does the committee agree to the Minister bringing in the witness? No? Do you want a time-out? All right, we will take a 15 minute break.

---SHORT BREAK

Thank you. Prior to the break, Mr. Minister wanted to bring in the witness. Does the committee agree that Mr. Minister will bring in the witness?

Agreed.

---Agreed

Mr. Minister. Thank you. Mr. Minister, would you introduce the witness for the record?

The floor is now open for general comments. Mr. Koe. General comments from the table.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. It was my understanding that the witness will be making a presentation on the report that was tabled.

Thank you, Mr. Koe. Ms. Peterson, do you have opening comments, a presentation for the committee?

Author's Presentation

Yes, I do. Thank you for the opportunity to allow me to make a few comments to you about the report that you now have before you. This report, as was indicated by the Minister, was written as a result of consultations with individuals throughout all regions of the Northwest Territories. There are a couple of fundamental principles in the report, and they form what I would suggest to you is the foundation of that report.

The first premise is, not only are men and women different, which I think we can all understand, but men and women experience the world differently because of their gender. Men and women are also treated differently by the world around them because of their gender. The report is not about treating men and women the same. The report is about understanding the differences and the experiences of men and women and learning to respect those differences for both men and women.

The reason the report emphasizes that a greater degree of respect is required for the experiences of women, how the world deals with them and how they deal with the world, is because to date, that respect has not been accorded to them.

The other thing that you should be aware of, and I am sure you know, is that the court system and the administration of justice does not have all of the answers about how to treat women with respect and how to correct some of the unfairness and the inequality that women experience.

Those are the fundamental social problems which arise in the courts from time to time but cannot be solved by the courts. They must be solved in a broader societal context and they must be given the attention of bodies like this Legislative Assembly. That is why the recommendations contained in the report are not directed exclusively to the Department of Justice. They are directed to other areas of responsibility that affect our day to day living in the Northwest Territories, including the Department of Education, the Department of Health, the Department of Social Services and other federal agencies. It is only with the coordinated effort of all of these individuals that these problems will even begin to be addressed in a way that is meaningful to women who live in the Northwest Territories and particularly in a way that is meaningful to women who live in communities in this jurisdiction. Until we start recognizing that women in communities require substantial resources to assist them with the day to day burden that they deal with in terms of violence, abuse, and poverty we will make no progress in bringing forward the question of equality of men and women in the Northwest Territories.

Those issues and priorities are for the Members of the Legislative Assembly to establish. I suggest to you that the burden lies with Members of this body to determine whether this is a question that deserves your serious consideration. If it does indeed deserve your serious consideration, you must allocate resources appropriately in order to address them.

The recommendations are long and they deal with many different areas of the administration of justice and related agencies. There are 90 recommendations in total. I would be pleased to answer any questions that you might have on any one of the recommendations, or with respect to how the report was prepared or with respect to any of the philosophical principles that may be contained in it.

Thank you, Ms. Peterson, for the presentation. General comments, Mr. Gargan.

General Comments

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I am not sure Ms. Peterson was here when I made my Member's statement this morning. If she was, she will be aware that I have expressed my appreciation for this. In many ways I think that this is a very good report and I agree with a great many of the advisor's findings and recommendations. I want to make that clear now, because I want the honourable Members to know that I am supportive of the work that has been done.

However, I do want to start off my general comments with a couple of concerns that I have about this sort of review process. I would like to begin by commenting that there is always a danger with a review process that attempts to identify issues that are specific to one gender.

I think that all of us are aware that, through the years, people have tended to look at such issues as day care, nuclear arms and spousal assault as women's issues. They are not women's issues Mr. Chairman, they are everyone's issues. I feel that in many ways there is a danger that we face when we tend to look at certain types of unfairness in the courts as affecting women.

In my review of "The Justice House" I noticed that at least half of the special advisor's findings are just as applicable to men as they are to women. Mr. Chairman, it is clear that there are many instances in which the Canadian justice system which has been imposed on our northern community is unfair to both men and women.

There are recommendations about the need for plain language in the court rooms. There are recommendations about the needs for more control of judges conduct and recommendations about the need for more public education. These are all recommendations that apply equally to men and women. They should be looked at that way rather than as women's issues. As you see, Mr. Chairman, it is unfortunate that as soon as you label something as a women's issue, people tend to regard it as a feminist issue. There are certain attitudes and reactions that almost always come forward. In the 1990s, there are sectors of the population that tend to trivialize important matters as soon as they hear them labelled as feminist concerns or women's issues. That is unfortunate and should not happen. I believe it does and that the R.C.M.P., lawyers and judges referred to in this report are just as likely as other members of society to react to this labelling in a negative way. Let us not forget that the kind of insanity that makes a man attack and kill female engineering students in the tragic Montreal massacre arose as a result of a tendency to group women scientists as feminists. This action was both crazy and sinful. It reflects some of the attitudes which do exist and will always exist in our modern society. I wonder if we might have done a disservice to women in the Northwest Territories by trying to label shortcomings in the justice system as gender equality issues. They are shortcomings that we should all be aware of because, if the justice system is unfair to one of us, it is unfair to all of us. I will stop here, Mr. Speaker, and give the special advisor a chance to comment.

Ms. Peterson.

I agree with your comments, Mr. Gargan, that the issues raised in this report are not to be labelled women's issues. They are issues for all of our society to deal with. Our society will have dignity only if all the members of that society are accorded respect. To the extent that we do not do so, our society is in ill health. With those remarks, I do agree. However, I disagree with what I detect to be, and what I would respectfully refer to as denial in some of your comments. There are issues within society that affect women that do not affect men. The question of domestic violence is one that I will refer to. When a man walks down the street he does not walk down the street with the same amount of fear that a woman does. When a man gets into his car at night, he does not check the back seat to see if anyone is there waiting to attack him. That is a different reality for men than it is for women. Our lives are fundamentally different in how violence affects us. To say that we should not point out that these issues especially affect women is to deny the existence of them. With those comments, I most strongly disagree.

I do agree that labelling things as women's issues detracts from the credibility of those issues. That is not a problem of women; that is a problem of how society treats women's credibility. Rather than asking women not to address these issues as women's issues, we should start teaching society that women do have credibility. Something that is a women's issue is an important issue to society as a whole. After all, for the last thousand years, we have treated issues that are important to men as issues of credibility within our society.

Thank you. Mr. Gargan.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Ms. Peterson, I have looked at the list of visits. You have gone into the communities from Hay River all the way to Fort Smith, Inuvik, Fort McPherson, Arviat, Rankin Inlet, Iqaluit, Broughton Island, Coppermine, Cambridge Bay, Fort Good Hope, Fort Franklin, Rae-Edzo and Yellowknife. Those are the large communities that you would see having those problems.

As aboriginal people, we have never addressed the issue of gender. We have always addressed it as a nation of people. Now, we are seeing even aboriginal women caught up in this gender war. It is not happening in the communities smaller than 1,000 people, for example. We do not see women walking the streets in fear at night. Nor do I see it for men. Perhaps, in Yellowknife, both women and men should be concerned about walking the streets in the evenings. I wanted to bring that out because you have about six people on your staff who helped you do the report. It is a very good report. The women who did this report also must have had a good education.

In your recommendations, one of the issues is plain language in the judicial system. I find a lot of the stuff in here very hard to read. I do not know what you mean by the definition "sexless." The report was done by a very bright group of people. If you put this into the communities it would be very difficult for the people in the communities to understand. Is it because of time that you have not gone to many of the traditional communities? When I refer to traditional communities, I mean those such as Fort Wrigley, Fort Liard and Fort Providence. They are not too caught up in your Canadian mentality, perhaps. This is not reflected in this report.

Thank you, Mr. Gargan. Ms. Peterson, would you like to respond?

Thank you. To answer your question, Mr. Gargan, it was a balancing act in terms of trying to visit communities in each of the regions and trying to visit communities of different sizes. I would disagree with you that all of the communities visited were large communities. Broughton Island and Fort McPherson are not large communities. We attempted to strike a balance in undertaking this report. The financial responsibility and the time available to complete the report necessitated that we make a choice about the communities which we visited. While, in some of the small communities, women may not have a fear of walking down the street in terms of the violence that they may have in a larger urban centre, I will strongly point out to you that women have fear in their homes. That prevails whether they live in Wrigley, Lac La Martre, Broughton Island, Pond Inlet or any other community in this territory.

While violence does not always occur on the streets within smaller communities it definitely occurs within the home. That violence is even more troublesome because it occurs in positions of trust and in situations where women have very little power and little option of leaving an abusive situation and making a better life for themselves and their families. In small communities people who are suffering from abusive behaviour have very few options available to them to correct or rehabilitate that behaviour. All of those needs, particularly in small communities where people are isolated and have little in the way of other support mechanisms, must be seriously addressed. It costs money.

Thank you. Mr. Nerysoo.

Mr. Chairman, first let me indicate to Ms. Peterson our appreciation for the trouble you took trying to come up and deal with this particular report. The time that many people took to be involved with the development of the report and recommendations, including those who were a part of the group who developed the report and made their presentations and made their issues known, is important. I do not deny that these issues are important. It is important for all of us to try to understand and appreciate the issues before us in terms of gender equality or those issues that do affect women very differently. It is not to diminish the importance of the recommendations or the issues in terms of recognizing how we view, both as men and women, the issues or how they are dealt with differently, it is more that there is a responsibility on the part of everyone to deal with these issues. We have to be prepared to try to appreciate the differences. You have noted that. We cannot always disassociate our responsibility as men from addressing these issues, the same way that women cannot dissociate their responsibility of dealing with those issues and concerns that apply to how we deal with men.

The point which Mr. Gargan made, perhaps not as gently as he could have, is that when you stereotype the issues and do not place the responsibility on all people, both men and women, to deal with these issues and to address gender equality between men and women, and their understanding, then the general public loses, the women lose, society loses, and the men lose. In many respects we are concerned that you do not want to place these issues in the context of being simply women's issues. It is far more important than that. It is the responsibility of society to respond to these issues.

I have read most of the recommendations, and I have no problem with them, in many respects. I do not necessarily say that all of the recommendations cost money. I think there is a suggestion sometimes that reports are going to cause the public purse a great deal of dollars. I know there are costs but I am not certain that the costs are so substantive that people cannot deal with them, either now or in the long run.

Mr. Chairman, our discussions here today may be not be as long as you want them to be, but as I pointed out to the Minister earlier, I think the recommendations in the report which has been brought before us requires some clarification and some comment from you with regard to the intent of the report, the intent of the recommendations. Even more than that, I think a fairly clear interpretation is needed on the part of those organizations that are also involved in trying to resolve the matters of violence against women and equal treatment. No matter how it is done, it is not acceptable and should not be put up with by anybody. The fact is that in our society this is occurring every day. It is important and incumbent upon all of us to somehow become responsible for getting rid of those kinds of action and reaction. I wanted to make this particular point because I do not want you or the public to get the impression that our short discussion today ends the whole issue because it does not. We want the aboriginal native organizations, the Inuit Women's Association, the Native Women's Association and the Council on the Status of Women to deal with these issues with us.

In many respects the report only highlights those issues and those recommendations which you and your review committee felt were important enough to highlight. The question now is, who is involved in the implementation of these? The government and other organizations who are watching us every day to make sure that we respond to the needs of women and to the issues they raise. It is responsible of us to make sure they have their input into helping us respond to this along with our government, to lay out a plan as to how we are going to address these particular matters.

Thank you, Mr. Nerysoo. Would you care to respond, Ms. Peterson?

Briefly, Mr. Chairman, I agree with Mr. Nerysoo's remarks that the solutions to these problems require a dialogue between men and women, and throughout society as a whole. It is not one gender's problem or the other's. In that dialogue, men and women must hear one another and understand one another. If we can accomplish that we will have accomplished a great deal. I draw no conclusions from the length of your discussion today. These problems are not solved overnight. They are solved with long-term commitment to the issues. I also agree that a consultative approach is appropriate in that it will be a learning approach for both Members of this Assembly and for those groups that may participate in it. The only word of caution that I would add to this, is that women's organizations have borne the principle responsibility for addressing these issues over the last many years. Those organizations, and the women who work in them, grow tired, and they need your help.

Thank you. Mr. Dent.

Thank you, Mr. Dent. Ms. Peterson.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. From speaking with people in the communities, not only people who, as individuals, have dealings with the court, but those who are charged with responsibilities within the court system, it is clear that there are some difficulties with the Victim Impact Statement. There were some difficulties with the distribution of this statement to the pilot project communities, how the statement was to be used, the role of police officers in obtaining the statement and explaining to a victim that she could in fact be cross-examined on the statement if the statement was not accepted. These are not simple issues to resolve, particularly the issue surrounding cross-examination on the Victim Impact Statement. In that situation you may find someone who has been a victim of a violent or traumatic assault who is breathing a sigh of relief because they do not have to give evidence in a trail on that matter. The guilty plea has been entered and the matter is just going to sentencing. That victim fills out a statement saying this is how this crime has affected me and how I will think it will continue to affect me in the future. If that statement is not accepted by defence

counsel, the witness is then asked to attend court and can be cross-examined. The trauma of the whole incident may be revisited upon her as a result of this.

There are issues to be worked out in the use of Victim Impact Statements and the resources that are allocated to support obtaining Victim Impact Statements in ways that are meaningful and useful to the court system. I would be hard pressed to disagree with the Minister in terms of his comments about assessing the usefulness of Victim Impact Statements. I think that with all kinds of issues associated with the administration of justice we have to be in a period of constant assessment to see whether these things are working for us. Mr. Dent has indicated that it may be appropriate to try those statements in communities where there may be more in the way of resources to support their use within the court system. I think that is a valuable comment.

Thank you, Ms. Peterson. Mrs. Marie-Jewell.

Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman. First of all I want to echo the comments of my colleague indicating to Ms. Peterson that appreciation is being expressed for the way the report has been developed. I also want to thank the women of the N.W.T. for participating in the process and bringing forth their concerns. That in itself has to be commended because it is difficult for an individual to bring forth these concerns and experiences. The courage is certainly to be recognized and commended.

Mr. Chairman, my comments are not with respect to the details of the report. I know the report has been submitted to the Minister's office and I recognize the recommendations with respect to training and awareness. I know that many of the recommendations are to request the people in positions who can enforce many of the laws that are currently in place to work with more vigour. Has there been any movement on his part for a plan to be developed to address this report?