This is page numbers 367 - 395 of the Hansard for the 12th Assembly, 3rd Session. The original version can be accessed on the Legislative Assembly's website or by contacting the Legislative Assembly Library. The word of the day was languages.

Topics

Members Present

Hon. Titus Allooloo, Mr. Antoine, Mr. Arngna'naaq, Mr. James Arvaluk, Hon. Michael Ballantyne, Mr. Bernhardt, Hon. Nellie Cournoyea, Mr. Dent, Mr. Gargan, Hon. Stephen Kakfwi, Mr. Koe, Mr. Lewis, Mrs. Marie-Jewell, Hon. Rebecca Mike, Hon. Don Morin, Mr. Nerysoo, Mr. Ningark, Mr. Dennis Patterson, Hon. John Pollard, Mr. Pudlat, Mr. Pudluk, Hon. John Todd, Mr. Tony Whitford, Mr. Zoe

---Prayer

Item 1: Prayer
Item 1: Prayer

Page 367

The Speaker Michael Ballantyne

Good afternoon. Item 2, Ministers' Statements. Item 3, Members' Statements. Mr. Dent.

Department Of Personnel Dictating Rates To Moving Companies
Item 3: Members' Statements

December 8th, 1992

Page 367

Charles Dent

Charles Dent Yellowknife Frame Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Early this fall, I spoke out about my surprise at the manner in which the Department of Personnel was trying to dictate to the moving industry a new set of rates, by which the department would pay for the movement of employees goods. I was told by the Minister when I raised this issue, that the institution of these rates would be delayed and that a process of negotiation with representatives would begin.

Mr. Speaker, according to industry sources there has been very little progress. The government has not changed its position on any significant point. It continues to state that the most it will pay northern moving companies is a rate which is approximately 40 per cent less than what they currently receive. Mr. Speaker, the moving companies are willing to compromise. They understand that times are tough but they are not willing to agree to rates which will force them out of business almost immediately.

Mr. Speaker, I do not understand what the government expects it can accomplish with this. I am all for efficiency and saving government money, but I will think it will cost the government much more if we lose these northern businesses.

Mr. Speaker, the rates the government is still insisting on for line haul are simply not viable. They are less than those paid by B.C., Saskatchewan and the Yukon. I am certain that this government would not try to say that the cost of a moving business in B.C., Saskatchewan or the Yukon is greater than in the territories. Even worse though is the department's approach to this issue. The department has not gone, as far as I am aware, to the airline companies and told them that it will no longer pay the regular air charges. Has it told suppliers of materials for house construction with the Housing Corporation that it will now pay 40 per cent less for construction materials? Has it told fuel distributors that it will no longer pay the same price per litre of gas or motels, and that it will now pay less per room rented to government employees?

Mr. Speaker, the government is proud of its Business Incentive Policy and has said that it is worth incurring greater cost to ensure our dollars stay in the north. It is time that the Department of Personnel put its money where its mouth is.

---Applause.

Department Of Personnel Dictating Rates To Moving Companies
Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 367

The Speaker Michael Ballantyne

Item 3, Members' Statements. Mr. Bernhardt.

Process Of Selecting Cabinet Members
Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 367

Ernie Bernhardt Kitikmeot

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I rise today to speak about the process used to select Members of Cabinet. This process was first established by previous Legislatures and has been adopted by a majority of Members of this House. As all Members are aware, under our current practice, this House selects four Cabinet Ministers from the east and four from the west. This selection process does not serve the best interest of the people of the Northwest Territories collectively.

Mr. Speaker, I believe that, especially during these tough times, we must change the way we select the Cabinet so that the best and the most capable candidates are chosen for the job, no matter what part of the territories they come from. It is my opinion that we have reached a stage in our constitutional development at which all Members of this Legislature will have to work together on the equitable process for dividing the N.W.T. into Nunavut and the western territories. To make these important decisions, I believe all Members should have the best interest of the territories as a whole.

Mr. Speaker, when decisions are made to select Cabinet Ministers, I for one, want to see a process in which I can vote for whom I consider to be the best possible candidate for the job, no matter if they are from the east or the west.

Mr. Speaker, in conclusion, the selection of Cabinet should not be based solely on region or culture, but on credibility, honesty and commitment to the people of the Northwest Territories. After all, all cultures in the whole creation...

Process Of Selecting Cabinet Members
Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 367

The Speaker Michael Ballantyne

Mr. Bernhardt, you allotted time has lapsed.

Process Of Selecting Cabinet Members
Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 367

Ernie Bernhardt Kitikmeot

Mr Speaker, I seek unanimous consent to complete my statement.

Process Of Selecting Cabinet Members
Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 367

The Speaker Michael Ballantyne

The honourable Member is seeking unanimous consent. Are there any nays? There are no nays. Please proceed, Mr. Bernhardt.

Process Of Selecting Cabinet Members
Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 368

Ernie Bernhardt Kitikmeot

Thank you, honourable Members. In conclusion, the selection of Cabinet should not be based solely on region or culture, but on credibility, honesty and commitment to the people of the Northwest Territories. After all, all cultures in this whole creation have borrowed something from other cultures in order to survive and compete. I would have loved to be nominated to sit over there for half a day and come back on this side. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Process Of Selecting Cabinet Members
Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 368

The Speaker Michael Ballantyne

Thank you, Mr. Bernhardt. Item 3, Members' Statements. Mr. Patterson.

Thanking Members For Support Regarding Loss Of School In Apex
Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 368

Dennis Patterson Iqaluit

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I would like to rise briefly to thank Mr. Pudlat and also a number of honourable Members, both Cabinet Ministers and ordinary Members, who have spoken to me about the unfortunate loss of the Nanook School in Apex by fire last week. I would like to thank the honourable Members for the sympathy and the support they have expressed to do their part to help this close-knit community rebuild its beloved school as soon as possible. I am also grateful for the commitment of the government to involve the community and myself fully in the planning process. Qujannamiik.

---Applause

Thanking Members For Support Regarding Loss Of School In Apex
Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 368

The Speaker Michael Ballantyne

Item 3, Members' Statements. Mr. Antoine.

Cabinet Ministers Representing All Of The N.w.t.
Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 368

Jim Antoine Nahendeh

Mahsi, Mr. Speaker. (Translation) Today, we had an election for a new Minister and that is the reason why I am speaking now. I was asked to run for Minister as well. I have five small communities in my region and we need a lot of government help. When I was first elected I wanted to help the people of my region so I put my name in for nomination. At that time I felt that I could do the job of a Minister and still represent my riding, but the people that voted for me are the ones I have to help first. When you are a Minister you have to represent everyone in the territories. There are eight Ministers appointed. Richard Nerysoo, John Todd and Rebecca Mike are new Ministers. The process now is that we select four from the east and four from the west to represent all the people from the territories. They are supposed to think of everybody throughout the territories, not only their specific region. They are Ministers representing everybody from the territories. They have to think that from now on. They are good people elected to be Ministers and I feel they will represent the people of the N.W.T. well. Thank you.

Cabinet Ministers Representing All Of The N.w.t.
Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 368

The Speaker Michael Ballantyne

Mr. Whitford.

Thanking Members And Constituents For Their Support
Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 368

Tony Whitford

Tony Whitford Yellowknife South

My congratulations and support for the three newly elected Ministers. I am confident at this time, Mr. Speaker, that they will do honour and justice to the portfolios that they receive and they will, with an unbiased loyalty to the people of the north, serve all the people of the north while they are there.

I would like to take this opportunity as well, Mr. Speaker, to offer my thank you to the Premier for all the guidance and support that she has given me during the past 13 months. As well, I would be negligent if I did not say the same thing to my colleagues on this side of the floor; they have offered me 13 months of excellent opportunity to gain experience and to, in that short period of time, do the best that I could for all of the people in the territories. I would like to say to my constituents, as well, that they stood by me and I am here to continue to assist this House in dealing with the issues at hand for the territories. Good luck, Madam Premier.

Thanking Members And Constituents For Their Support
Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 368

The Speaker Michael Ballantyne

Item 3, Members' Statements. Mr. Gargan.

Thanking Former Ministers
Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 368

Samuel Gargan Deh Cho

Mr. Speaker, I would like to offer my thanks to some of the former Ministers who just resigned. I would like to first express my thanks to Mr. Ningark, who served for a short while in the area of Renewable Resources. I also want to thank him for offering to travel to my constituency. Unfortunately, he did not get the opportunity to do that. I also want to thank Mr. James Arvaluk for assisting in ensuring that the Dene Cultural Institute is well into operation and that it did have planning money for its initiatives. I would also like to thank Mr. Whitford for his contribution to my constituency in the area of transportation and, in particular, the construction that has gone on for the last several years with regard to road construction. Finally, to Mr. Patterson. Oh, just wait now. Dennis, what did you do for my....

---Laughter

I would also like to thank Mr. Patterson for his assistance. I understand that there were going to be major renovations worth millions of dollars, for my community in Fort Providence but I think now the priority lies with the Apex School and I am sure that the people in my constituency would understand if they hold back in order for the school to be a reality in Apex. Thank you.

---Applause

Thanking Former Ministers
Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 368

The Speaker Michael Ballantyne

Thank you, Mr. Gargan. Item 3, Members' Statements. Mr. Ningark.

Congratulating Ms. Mike, Mr. Todd And Mr. Nerysoo For Winning Seat On Cabinet
Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 368

John Ningark Natilikmiot

(Translation) Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I would like to congratulate Richard Nerysoo, Rebecca Mike and John Todd. We all know that the Ministers go through a hard time. They have children and families. They are people like us. They are human beings. They have feelings too and they have gone through a tough time. If we try to give them support they can give us in return the same support that we give them, not just in the Legislative Assembly; they have work outside the Legislative Assembly throughout the Northwest Territories. In conclusion, Mr. Speaker, I would like to say that people from Kitikmeot, sometimes we call them the middle

east, are going through hard times, so we would like to get support from them. Thank you.

Congratulating Ms. Mike, Mr. Todd And Mr. Nerysoo For Winning Seat On Cabinet
Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 369

The Speaker Michael Ballantyne

Thank you, Mr. Ningark. Item 3, Members' Statements. Mrs. Marie-Jewell.

Anonymous Note Delivered To Chamber
Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 369

Jeannie Marie-Jewell Thebacha

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I did not intend to make a Member's statement today, however, I should have checked my desk before the day had started. Mr. Speaker, I came to clear my desk and I read this note. It was addressed to me with no stamp so I know it was hand delivered to this Assembly. It says, "the public is watching you. It is time to put some credibility back into government and stop your personal vindictiveness. Put somebody in with education and credibility. Vote for Brian Lewis. Remember, we are watching."

Mr. Speaker, I find that quite appalling. This morning, when I think of it, I did get a nomination for the Cabinet seat and I certainly would like to take the time to thank my honourable colleague for Baffin Centre for her confidence and for honouring me with the nomination. However, Mr. Speaker, I want to comment that during the first Territorial Leadership Committee a year ago, this House passed a motion that established a two year review to the Executive Council and I voted for that motion, Mr. Speaker. I regret that it has been necessary to see Cabinet changes before that time. Some days I regret the process we use in this House, however, on consensus I agree and I go with the majority. That is democracy.

I do not believe in saying we will do one thing and then do another. Once I give my word, I want to fulfil the commitments that I have made. I felt it would have been inappropriate for me to allow my name to be put forward. I certainly hope that this is noted by some of the political pundits who, for example, wrote this note and the media, which have tried to attribute to the resignation of Cabinet Ministers to a personal bias or ambition on my part. This is not true at all. Mr. Speaker, the work of a Minister requires the commitment of a Member of this House to serve all the people of the Northwest Territories. I have made commitments to serve on committees and I would like to attempt to finish the commitments that I have made as a Member. I seek unanimous consent to continue.

Anonymous Note Delivered To Chamber
Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 369

The Speaker Michael Ballantyne

The honourable Member is seeking unanimous consent. Are there any nays? There are no nays. Please proceed, Mrs. Marie-Jewell.

Anonymous Note Delivered To Chamber
Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 369

Jeannie Marie-Jewell Thebacha

Thank you, honourable colleagues. Mr. Speaker, I enjoy my life as an M.L.A. Believe it or not, I have a lot of fun. At the same time I believe I work hard too. One of our responsibilities is not only to make government accountable, but to bring the issues and concerns of Members of this House to the public forum. My constituents voted me into office because they know I am not afraid to speak, to work, and to bring forth the issues and make sure they are addressed. I thank them for their support.

No doubt, when you serve as an M.L.A., you have to work hard to be effective. When you work hard to be effective people look at you as though you are trying to get power. I do not look at it as power. I believe when you work hard to be effective you are trying to be responsible. In order to be responsible you also have to be accountable. I sometimes wonder why people find that the amount of power a person gets makes them feel that they are very important. In the eyes of our constituents we are all important because they place faith in us to serve them. I have tried to make the commitment to serve my constituents well. I will continue to serve them well. I will continue to make the government accountable.

Mr. Speaker, on a closing note, I certainly want to give my full congratulations to Mr. Nerysoo. I congratulate the other Members who placed forth their names for the empty seat on Cabinet. I know Mr. Nerysoo will be capable of filling the position. Most of all, I do want to urge the people of Yellowknife not to fear that they do not have a Minister on the Cabinet because the government is right at their doorstep. I have worked with these people for one year. I believe that many of the Cabinet Members are open and approachable. I know they will treat all the people of the N.W.T. with fairness. Thank you.

---Applause

Anonymous Note Delivered To Chamber
Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 369

The Speaker Michael Ballantyne

Thank you, Mrs. Marie-Jewell. I would like to put on the public record that the note came from outside of this Legislative Assembly. I would like to state for the public record that it is very important that the Members of this Assembly can make their decisions free of the fear of intimidation or threats. I would like to state strongly that visitors to our Legislative Assembly please refrain from passing notes that might be construed as threatening to the Members of this Legislative Assembly. Thank you.

---Applause.

Anonymous Note Delivered To Chamber
Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 369

The Speaker Michael Ballantyne

Item 3, Members' Statements. Mr. Pudlat.

Congratulating New Cabinet Ministers
Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 369

Kenoayoak Pudlat Baffin South

(Translation) Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I also would like to congratulate the newly elected Ministers. I am not going to indicate the names, but I would like to thank each newly elected Member for being able to respond to my questions. I would also like to congratulate the new elected Executive Council Members. I would like to congratulate all the Members who participated in the election of the Executive Council. I think we have to work closely together to make this a better government. We have to look at the future. I would like to thank all the Members and the new Executive Council Members.

Congratulating New Cabinet Ministers
Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 369

The Speaker Michael Ballantyne

Thank you, Mr. Pudlat. Item 3, Members' Statements. Mr. Lewis.

Congratulating New Cabinet Ministers
Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 369

Brian Lewis Yellowknife Centre

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I rise today to tell the House that I really took this leadership race very seriously. I

wrote a speech out so that I knew exactly what I was going to say with a little bit of room to manoeuvre. The adrenaline began to flow. It was a very competitive feeling, something which I have lost for a long time. It was very good for me to become involved in a race against all these young and vigourous people who really want to do something. I have every confidence that our Cabinet will be an effective and strong one. I am delighted, although I hate losing, because Mr. Nerysoo has been in the wilderness for many years. He perhaps reached the top too soon. I remember meeting him on the street about seven years ago outside Yellowknife Radio. He looked very down and very unhappy. I remember saying to him, "People like you are going to go around several times yet. You may feel as if you are down now, but if you are very young in this business and achieve success, you can have a very depressing period of time because this is a very uncertain business that we are in. People can get down very easily." Now that he has had the chance to prove himself again with all his wisdom and experience, I am sure that when he gets on the other side and takes his seat he will have a different view of life. He will be richer and more experienced for it. I am sure that he will be a very productive and effective person in dealing with the very complicated issues that we have on the horizon. I appreciate the opportunity to say this so soon after being involved in this gigantic struggle to be a Member of our Cabinet. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Congratulating New Cabinet Ministers
Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 370

The Speaker Michael Ballantyne

Item 3, Members' Statements. Item 4, Returns to Oral Questions. Ms. Cournoyea.

Further Return To Question 94-12(3): Completion Of Power Line Study
Item 4: Returns To Oral Questions
Item 4: Returns To Oral Questions

Page 370

Nellie Cournoyea Nunakput

Mr. Speaker, I have a return to an oral question asked by Mrs. Marie-Jewell on November 25, in terms of the completion of the power line study.

Mr. Speaker, in September, 1992, the Northwest Territories Power Corporation did a review of the power supply options for the North Slave region. This review resulted in a statement by the corporation and the Dogrib Treaty II Council on September 8, 1992, outlining an agreement to negotiate acceptable terms for development of hydro sites in the Dogrib region.

Transmission of the excess power supply from the Taltson Dam site to Yellowknife was part of this review. An overland transmission line to the west of Great Slave Lake and a link under the lake were also considered.

The corporation has had discussions with the town of Fort Smith related to electric heat generation and a hydrogen generating proposal. In addition, Northland Utilities Limited has approached the corporation with a proposal for the supply of power to Fort Fitzgerald.

Subject to the current negotiations, a review of the various options for the utilization of the excess capacity in the Fort Smith area will result in recommendations for the corporation's board of directors by spring, 1993. The review will include input from interested parties in the Fort Smith area and will take into consideration future power supply requirements.

Further Return To Question 140-12(3): Planning And Funding For Inuvik Health Care Facility
Item 4: Returns To Oral Questions
Item 4: Returns To Oral Questions

Page 370

Nellie Cournoyea Nunakput

Mr. Speaker, I also have a return to an oral question asked on December 1 by Mr. Fred Koe, about the planning and funding for the Inuvik Health Care Facility.

In April, 1993, the Inuvik Regional Health Board, with the support of the Department of Health, will be initiating development of a strategic plan for the health board and an operational plan for regional health services. The development

of a regional health service plan will be a collaborative initiative involving residents, aboriginal groups and councils.

The first phase of the planning program will be to complete a regional needs study and profile.

The second phase will translate the findings of the needs study into health programs and service needs.

The third and final phase will be the development of an action plan. It is anticipated that the overall planning program will take between six and nine months.

The needs of individual communities will be addressed as well, with a requirement for capital projects. Until the community and regional health needs are clearly understood, it is premature to speculate about what the regional capital planning program will be.

While there is a commitment to replace the Inuvik Regional Hospital, the programming and design of a replacement facility must wait until the proposed planning is completed. Funding is currently proposed for 1996-97 and 1997-98 to complete the program and design of a replacement facility.

The Department of Health will review the current capital plan and determine whether the programming and design for the replacement facility can be advanced to begin in 1994-95. This approach will provide the necessary time for a regional health plan to be completed and the capital needs of the region to be identified. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Further Return To Question 140-12(3): Planning And Funding For Inuvik Health Care Facility
Item 4: Returns To Oral Questions
Item 4: Returns To Oral Questions

Page 370

The Speaker Michael Ballantyne

Thank you, Ms. Cournoyea. Item 4, Returns to Oral Questions. Item 5, Oral Questions. Mr. Antoine.

Question 197-12(3): Implications Of Federal Government's Economic Statement
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 370

Jim Antoine Nahendeh

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. My question is for the Minister of Finance. On December 2, 1992, the federal Minister of Finance, the Hon. Don Mazankowski, introduced an economic statement proposing extensive federal cuts in several areas. Cuts are being made to unemployment insurance and in other areas of particular importance to the north, such as the environment, cultural subsidies and assistance to aboriginal people. This new approach by the federal government could have great significance in the Northwest Territories.

My question is, has this government conducted an analysis of the economic statement delivered by the federal government

to determine its implications for the economic position of the Northwest Territories?

Question 197-12(3): Implications Of Federal Government's Economic Statement
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 371

The Speaker Michael Ballantyne

Mr. Pollard.

Return To Question 197-12(3): Implications Of Federal Government's Economic Statement
Question 197-12(3): Implications Of Federal Government's Economic Statement
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 371

John Pollard Hay River

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, the Department of Finance is looking at the details in the economic statement made by the federal Finance Minister. There are some things though that I can say right now and that is with regard to the infrastructure development, particularly in the area of transportation, we anticipate that the federal Minister of Transport will be making an announcement within the next week.

There will be a Finance Ministers' meeting on the 16 and 17 of this month, which I will be attending, at which we expect to get further details. I would caution the Members in the House that in addition to the things you have already heard, departments were told to cut back by three per cent next year. I think that it is being left at the discretion of federal departments, so there may be other things that affect us when we see the new federal budget in the spring. I will keep the House up to date. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Return To Question 197-12(3): Implications Of Federal Government's Economic Statement
Question 197-12(3): Implications Of Federal Government's Economic Statement
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 371

The Speaker Michael Ballantyne

Oral questions. Supplementary, Mr. Antoine.

Supplementary To Question 197-12(3): Implications Of Federal Government's Economic Statement
Question 197-12(3): Implications Of Federal Government's Economic Statement
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 371

Jim Antoine Nahendeh

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I know the Minister has indicated some of the effects that this may have, but can the Minister indicate to this House what this new federal position is expected to have for the Northwest Territories?

Supplementary To Question 197-12(3): Implications Of Federal Government's Economic Statement
Question 197-12(3): Implications Of Federal Government's Economic Statement
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 371

The Speaker Michael Ballantyne

Mr. Pollard.

Further Return To Question 197-12(3): Implications Of Federal Government's Economic Statement
Question 197-12(3): Implications Of Federal Government's Economic Statement
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 371

John Pollard Hay River

Mr. Speaker, I cannot comment on the proposed cuts for next year because, as I said, I do not know what those departments are going to propose. Certainly, there is an opportunity for us in this new announcement with regard to northern airports. Again, the federal Minister of Transport will tell us about the improvements they intend to make.

As far as participating in that infrastructure pool of money, I would assume that the new Minister of Transport, whoever he or she may be, will be aggressively pursuing that and following up on the groundwork that has been laid by the Premier in First Ministers' conferences.

With regard to the detail, certainly the small businesses will get a break on new employees and not have to pay the U.I.C. premiums. They will be grateful for that but there will be a down side to those people who will be accessing U.I.C. That will be the same across the country. Did we get hit hard by this economic statement? Not to my knowledge, Mr. Speaker, but we are still looking at the details to see if there is something in there that will affect us.

Further Return To Question 197-12(3): Implications Of Federal Government's Economic Statement
Question 197-12(3): Implications Of Federal Government's Economic Statement
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 371

The Speaker Michael Ballantyne

Supplementary, Mr. Antoine.

Supplementary To Question 197-12(3): Implications Of Federal Government's Economic Statement
Question 197-12(3): Implications Of Federal Government's Economic Statement
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 371

Jim Antoine Nahendeh

Thank you, Mr. Speaker, I have a final supplementary. Does the Minister anticipate any specific changes to the economic plan of this government as a result of the federal government's announcement?

Supplementary To Question 197-12(3): Implications Of Federal Government's Economic Statement
Question 197-12(3): Implications Of Federal Government's Economic Statement
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 371

The Speaker Michael Ballantyne

Mr. Pollard.

Further Return To Question 197-12(3): Implications Of Federal Government's Economic Statement
Question 197-12(3): Implications Of Federal Government's Economic Statement
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 371

John Pollard Hay River

No, Mr. Speaker. Apart from the fact that we would like to participate, if there are federal dollars available for infrastructure, we are concerned about the impact on people who may be drawing unemployment insurance. Our situation remains the same; our economy is sluggish, the same as it in southern Canada. We have higher unemployment and we will continue to try to seek other ways of employing those people.

There may be something that we will be announcing in the next session; something that the Premier and I have been working on to put people in communities back to work. That is not very far down the road right now but we do anticipate bringing forward some suggestions in the spring session. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Further Return To Question 197-12(3): Implications Of Federal Government's Economic Statement
Question 197-12(3): Implications Of Federal Government's Economic Statement
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 371

The Speaker Michael Ballantyne

Oral Questions. Mrs. Marie-Jewell.

Question 198-12(3): Maintenance Of Fort Smith And Fort Chipewyan Winter Road
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 371

Jeannie Marie-Jewell Thebacha

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I have a question for the acting Minister of Transportation. Mr. Speaker, the Minister, or whoever is acting Minister, I believe it is Mr. Pollard, is well aware of the concerns caused by Parks Canada's announcement last spring indicating they would no longer fund the maintenance of the winter road between Fort Smith and Fort Chipewyan. At the end of June, I placed a motion in this House requesting that the Cabinet negotiate with Parks Canada to try to keep this road open.

This road is vital to the community of Fort Smith. It is a key link to many of the traditions of the native people with regard to visiting their relatives. It is good for the economy also, Mr. Speaker. Not only do the community people from Fort Chipewyan come to Fort Smith to play bingo, they spend a lot of money doing their Christmas shopping there also.

I would like to ask the Minister, can he advise this House as to what progress, if any, has been made in negotiations with the federal government with regard to maintenance of the winter road between Fort Smith and Fort Chipewyan?

Question 198-12(3): Maintenance Of Fort Smith And Fort Chipewyan Winter Road
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 371

The Speaker Michael Ballantyne

Mr. Pollard.

Return To Question 198-12(3): Maintenance Of Fort Smith And Fort Chipewyan Winter Road
Question 198-12(3): Maintenance Of Fort Smith And Fort Chipewyan Winter Road
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 372

John Pollard Hay River

Mr. Speaker, the former Minister of Transportation, Mr. Whitford, pursued the federal government, Mr. Charest. He also had discussions with the Alberta government, and with Mr. Jack Shields who is the federal Member of Parliament for Fort Chipewyan. I am pleased to say that Mr. Shields called me today and advised me that the federal government will be putting the road from Fort Smith through to Fort Chipewyan, as they have done in previous years, and they will do it again this winter, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I have also been cautioned by Mr. Shields that there should be some discussion between Fort Smith, Alberta, the federal government and ourselves in the new year to discuss some further cost sharing on this road. They are prepared to do it this year, Mr. Speaker. Thank you.

---Applause

Return To Question 198-12(3): Maintenance Of Fort Smith And Fort Chipewyan Winter Road
Question 198-12(3): Maintenance Of Fort Smith And Fort Chipewyan Winter Road
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 372

The Speaker Michael Ballantyne

Supplementary, Mrs. Marie-Jewell.

Supplementary To Question 198-12(3): Maintenance Of Fort Smith And Fort Chipewyan Winter Road
Question 198-12(3): Maintenance Of Fort Smith And Fort Chipewyan Winter Road
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 372

Jeannie Marie-Jewell Thebacha

That is very good news, Mr. Speaker, and I commend the Minister and the government for taking on and fulfilling the initiative. I would like to ask the Minister, however, if he would request and make a commitment on behalf of his department to ensure that these negotiations do take place so that we are not in this type of dilemma next year? Thank you.

Supplementary To Question 198-12(3): Maintenance Of Fort Smith And Fort Chipewyan Winter Road
Question 198-12(3): Maintenance Of Fort Smith And Fort Chipewyan Winter Road
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 372

The Speaker Michael Ballantyne

Mr. Pollard.

Further Return To Question 198-12(3): Maintenance Of Fort Smith And Fort Chipewyan Winter Road
Question 198-12(3): Maintenance Of Fort Smith And Fort Chipewyan Winter Road
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 372

John Pollard Hay River

Mr. Speaker, I committed to Mr. Shields on the phone half an hour ago that we would participate very early in the new year in those discussions so that we are not left in the same situation as we were this year. Thank you.

---Applause

Further Return To Question 198-12(3): Maintenance Of Fort Smith And Fort Chipewyan Winter Road
Question 198-12(3): Maintenance Of Fort Smith And Fort Chipewyan Winter Road
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 372

The Speaker Michael Ballantyne

Item 5, Oral Questions. Mr. Koe.

Question 199-12(3): Status Of Legislative Review Of Workers' Compensation Board Act
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 372

Fred Koe Inuvik

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I have a question to the Minister responsible for the Workers' Compensation Board. What is the status of the legislative review of the Workers' Compensation Board Act?

Question 199-12(3): Status Of Legislative Review Of Workers' Compensation Board Act
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 372

The Speaker Michael Ballantyne

Ms. Cournoyea.

Return To Question 199-12(3): Status Of Legislative Review Of Workers' Compensation Board Act
Question 199-12(3): Status Of Legislative Review Of Workers' Compensation Board Act
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 372

Nellie Cournoyea Nunakput

Mr. Speaker, presently we are in the negotiations with the individual who is going to head up the review. We anticipate that by Friday we should have concluded those negotiations so that a review can proceed. Thank you.

Return To Question 199-12(3): Status Of Legislative Review Of Workers' Compensation Board Act
Question 199-12(3): Status Of Legislative Review Of Workers' Compensation Board Act
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 372

The Speaker Michael Ballantyne

Item 5, Oral Questions. Supplementary, Mr. Koe.

Supplementary To Question 199-12(3): Status Of Legislative Review Of Workers' Compensation Board Act
Question 199-12(3): Status Of Legislative Review Of Workers' Compensation Board Act
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 372

Fred Koe Inuvik

We were promised that the review would be completed by the end of December. Is this still the proposed schedule?

Supplementary To Question 199-12(3): Status Of Legislative Review Of Workers' Compensation Board Act
Question 199-12(3): Status Of Legislative Review Of Workers' Compensation Board Act
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 372

The Speaker Michael Ballantyne

Ms. Cournoyea.

Further Return To Question 199-12(3): Status Of Legislative Review Of Workers' Compensation Board Act
Question 199-12(3): Status Of Legislative Review Of Workers' Compensation Board Act
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 372

Nellie Cournoyea Nunakput

Mr. Speaker, we made that commitment and we are still working to complete it according to the schedule by the end of December.

Further Return To Question 199-12(3): Status Of Legislative Review Of Workers' Compensation Board Act
Question 199-12(3): Status Of Legislative Review Of Workers' Compensation Board Act
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 372

The Speaker Michael Ballantyne

Item 5, Oral Questions. Mr. Whitford.

Question 200-12(3): Response By Royal Oak Mine To Mediators' Report
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 372

Tony Whitford

Tony Whitford Yellowknife South

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I have a question I would like to direct to the Government Leader. Mr. Speaker, the Government Leader will recall that on November 26, 1992 she told the House that the federal mediators' report on the Giant Mine dispute had been released. For the first time in many months, Mr. Speaker, there was a glimmer of hope and promise that this terrible stalemate would be resolved. The following week C.A.S.A.W.'s membership announced that they had accepted the advice of their union executive and had endorsed the mediators' report. Management of Royal Oak, however, to this date has indicated that it would send its response to the federal Minister of Labour. I would like to ask the Government Leader, who has been monitoring this very closely for several months now, if she can advise this House as to whether there has been any movement in Royal Oak's response?

Question 200-12(3): Response By Royal Oak Mine To Mediators' Report
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 372

The Speaker Michael Ballantyne

Ms. Cournoyea.

Return 200-12(3): Response By Royal Oak Mine To Mediators' Report
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 372

Nellie Cournoyea Nunakput

Mr. Speaker, as of yesterday evening there was no response, unless something has happened this morning. Thank you.

Return 200-12(3): Response By Royal Oak Mine To Mediators' Report
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 372

The Speaker Michael Ballantyne

Item 5, Oral Questions. Mr. Antoine.

Question 201-12(3): Announcement Of Federal Cuts
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 372

Jim Antoine Nahendeh

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I would like to direct my question to the Minister responsible for Aboriginal Rights and Constitutional Affairs. It pertains to the question I asked the Minister of Finance. Cuts were announced in the economic statement by the Honourable Don Mazankowski, the federal Minister of Finance. One of the cuts announced was the assistance to aboriginal people. I am concerned about what

type of assistance we are talking about and how much. Can the Minister indicate to this House what effect this announcement will have in the Northwest Territories? Thank you.

Question 201-12(3): Announcement Of Federal Cuts
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 373

The Speaker Michael Ballantyne

Mr. Kakfwi.

Return To Question 201-12(3): Announcement Of Federal
Question 201-12(3): Announcement Of Federal Cuts
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 373

The Speaker Michael Ballantyne

Cuts

Return To Question 201-12(3): Announcement Of Federal
Question 201-12(3): Announcement Of Federal Cuts
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 373

Stephen Kakfwi

Stephen Kakfwi Sahtu

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, the government officials are presently looking at the implications of the recent statement by the federal government. We will be advising Members at the earliest possible time once we have fully analyzed the implications of that statement. The information is not available at this time. Thank you.

Return To Question 201-12(3): Announcement Of Federal
Question 201-12(3): Announcement Of Federal Cuts
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 373

The Speaker Michael Ballantyne

Item 5, Oral Questions. Mr. Koe.

Question 202-12(3): Status Of Community Transfer Initiatives Implementation Plan
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 373

Fred Koe Inuvik

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I have a question for the Minister of Aboriginal and Intergovernmental Affairs. Yesterday I asked some questions on the status of the community transfer initiatives implementation plan and I received some very lengthy answers. In his statement in Hansard the Minister indicated that if communities are interested, the Minister would be prepared to make a commitment to travel to those communities to get discussions going. My question is, in many communities where they have already had discussions with the Minister or his staff, what is the Minister going to do to further enhance or advance the level of these discussions in terms of community transfer initiatives?

Question 202-12(3): Status Of Community Transfer Initiatives Implementation Plan
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 373

The Speaker Michael Ballantyne

Mr. Kakfwi.

Return To Question 202-12(3): Status Of Community Transfer Initiatives Implementation Plan
Question 202-12(3): Status Of Community Transfer Initiatives Implementation Plan
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 373

Stephen Kakfwi

Stephen Kakfwi Sahtu

Mr. Speaker, it is not possible to give a good answer to the question because there are many communities who have been visited already. The responses and the expectations that they expect as a follow-up are all somewhat varied. I do know that in some cases they have asked for information and we are forwarding that information to them. In some cases they have asked for a response to a detailed proposal with a dollar amount. We are responding to these in the next month or two. In other communities they expect us to return to have follow-up discussions either with myself or with senior staff, usually headed by the regional director of the area. That, in some areas, is what the expectations of most of the communities are. In some cases they have indicated when they find the time to continue the discussion and inviting myself and staff once again.

Return To Question 202-12(3): Status Of Community Transfer Initiatives Implementation Plan
Question 202-12(3): Status Of Community Transfer Initiatives Implementation Plan
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 373

The Speaker Michael Ballantyne

Item 5, Oral Questions. Mr. Ningark.

Question 203-12(3): Government's Actions On Rectifying Family Violence
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 373

John Ningark Natilikmiot

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. This is subsequent to the Members' statement that I made yesterday on behalf of the front line workers of family violence. Since women are very concerned about the level of violence against women and children I would like to ask the Premier, what is the government's decision in terms of rectifying the problem? Thank you.

Question 203-12(3): Government's Actions On Rectifying Family Violence
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 373

The Speaker Michael Ballantyne

Again, I would remind Members that if they are posing a question that might require a detailed complex response, the proper place to pose that question is Written

Questions. Ms. Cournoyea.

Return To Question 203-12(3): Government's Actions On Rectifying Family Violence
Question 203-12(3): Government's Actions On Rectifying Family Violence
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 373

Nellie Cournoyea Nunakput

Mr. Speaker, the honourable Member did relay a note on two questions that were asked and I realize that yesterday a number of women were in attendance at this Legislative Assembly before I came in. I also took the opportunity at 10:00 a.m. this morning for an hour to meet with them and to hear their particular concerns. On the discussion on violence to women and the problems in that area, what I did encourage was that they continue to bring forth their concerns and work in dialogue because it has been far too long that this issue has been kept in the closet. People were shy to talk about it, people were ashamed to stress their views that their families where having problems, people were concerned about their own private business in the home. The Government of the Northwest Territories on many occasions funds and encourages women to get together to discuss their common concern.

I understand that there will be meetings in two other regions, primarily funded by the Secretary of State of the federal government. At the same time, I believe that funding has been given to women's groups in the Northwest Territories by this government and has allowed the dialogue to begin, the financing of community front line workers, the implementation of the partial solution of having safe houses in the communities to try to help get over these problems while the dialogue is going on. This is the type of support that we have been given. As we come closer to dealing with the justice system and how justice should be applied in the communities with their involvement, I think we have come closer to more of the whole problem that is going on in the changing society we have today on what standards of behaviour are acceptable and which are not. I did say that this government, and the previous Ministers with this particular responsibility in government, will continue to support further talks on this issue so that it can be more out in the open. I think we are well on our way to identifying the issues and what should be done about it.

As a whole, communities are going to have to be encouraged to try to work that problem out at the community level. I have suggested to them that every effort of this government is to try to grapple the problem at the community level, and that their involvement and suggestions would be very much appreciated on a continued basis. Thank you.

Return To Question 203-12(3): Government's Actions On Rectifying Family Violence
Question 203-12(3): Government's Actions On Rectifying Family Violence
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 373

The Speaker Michael Ballantyne

Item 5, Oral Questions. Mr. Dent.

Question 204-12(3): Availability Of Financial Statements For Expo '92
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 373

Charles Dent

Charles Dent Yellowknife Frame Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Minister of Economic Development and

Tourism. Mr. Speaker, on November 23 the Minister, in response to a question that I asked, advised that we get an interim statement on the total bill in Seville by the end of this sitting. I was wondering if the Minister could advise us if the accounting for the drain in Spain is ready yet?

Question 204-12(3): Availability Of Financial Statements For Expo '92
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 374

The Speaker Michael Ballantyne

Mr. Pollard.

Return To Question 204-12(3): Availability Of Financial Statements For Expo '92
Question 204-12(3): Availability Of Financial Statements For Expo '92
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 374

John Pollard Hay River

Mr. Speaker, the interim statement was presented to the Cabinet this morning. It is being translated as we speak and will be tabled in the House tomorrow. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Return To Question 204-12(3): Availability Of Financial Statements For Expo '92
Question 204-12(3): Availability Of Financial Statements For Expo '92
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 374

The Speaker Michael Ballantyne

Item 5, Oral Questions. Mrs. Marie-Jewell.

Question 205-12(3): Allowing All Government Employees To Buy G.n.w.t. Houses
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 374

Jeannie Marie-Jewell Thebacha

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I have a question for the Minister of Personnel. The Minister of Personnel made a statement in the House last week with regard to the long-term housing strategy. Within this statement he indicated that within 18 months the government will be out of staff housing in Yellowknife, Fort Smith, Hay River and Inuvik. Mr. Speaker, he indicated at the same time that sales of housing would go on first preference to government employees who are living in the unit and then to all other government employees. Can the Minister indicate to me if they would consider allowing these housing units to be granted to all government employees as opposed to the ones who are living in the units? Thank you.

Question 205-12(3): Allowing All Government Employees To Buy G.n.w.t. Houses
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 374

The Speaker Michael Ballantyne

Mr. Kakfwi.

Return To Question 205-12(3): Allowing All Government Employees To Buy G.n.w.t. Houses
Question 205-12(3): Allowing All Government Employees To Buy G.n.w.t. Houses
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 374

Stephen Kakfwi

Stephen Kakfwi Sahtu

Mr. Speaker, I am not clear what purpose that would serve since it may give preferential treatment to government employees who live in private accommodations to have first shot at acquiring government staff housing before other residents of the north would have that access. It would not seem to be a fair approach to trying to provide fair and equal access to housing to all residents of the communities.

Return To Question 205-12(3): Allowing All Government Employees To Buy G.n.w.t. Houses
Question 205-12(3): Allowing All Government Employees To Buy G.n.w.t. Houses
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 374

The Speaker Michael Ballantyne

Supplementary, Mrs. Marie-Jewell.

Supplementary To Question 205-12(3): Allowing All Government Employees To Buy G.n.w.t. Houses
Question 205-12(3): Allowing All Government Employees To Buy G.n.w.t. Houses
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 374

Jeannie Marie-Jewell Thebacha

Mr. Speaker, I believe it is quite the contrary. Currently, government employees are encouraged to build their own homes. If they do not then they get their housing allowance taken and cut back. There are some employees who either just came into the community or who are living in government units who will be given the first chance to purchase these government units. I have had concerns expressed to me by my constituents that the individuals who took the time to get out of government units by trying to adhere to government policies are at a disadvantage now because they are not being considered for any of these units for sale. I would like to ask the Minister if he can look at this issue and review it. He may want to consider other options with regard to disposing of government units.

Supplementary To Question 205-12(3): Allowing All Government Employees To Buy G.n.w.t. Houses
Question 205-12(3): Allowing All Government Employees To Buy G.n.w.t. Houses
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 374

The Speaker Michael Ballantyne

Mr. Kakfwi.

Further Return To Question 205-12(3): Allowing All Government Employees To Buy G.n.w.t. Houses
Question 205-12(3): Allowing All Government Employees To Buy G.n.w.t. Houses
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 374

Stephen Kakfwi

Stephen Kakfwi Sahtu

Mr. Speaker, I will do that. Thank you.

Further Return To Question 205-12(3): Allowing All Government Employees To Buy G.n.w.t. Houses
Question 205-12(3): Allowing All Government Employees To Buy G.n.w.t. Houses
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 374

The Speaker Michael Ballantyne

Item 5, Oral Questions. Mr. Whitford.

Question 206-12(3): Government Leader's Role In Solving Royal Oak Dispute
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 374

Tony Whitford

Tony Whitford Yellowknife South

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Continuing with my questions for the Government Leader concerning the dispute at Giant Mine, the Monroe Reddy Report stated that both sides of the dispute owe it to the community to take serious steps towards resolving this dispute. For the first time, Mr. Speaker, we have had a glimmer of hope that this would be close to resolution. I would like to ask the Government Leader, what role she would be willing to take in helping both sides in this matter to continue towards solving this problem that has torn this city apart for so long?

Question 206-12(3): Government Leader's Role In Solving Royal Oak Dispute
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 374

The Speaker Michael Ballantyne

Ms. Cournoyea.

Return To Question 206-12(3): Government Leader's Role In Solving Royal Oak Dispute
Question 206-12(3): Government Leader's Role In Solving Royal Oak Dispute
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 374

Nellie Cournoyea Nunakput

Mr. Speaker, first of all, the jurisdictional responsibility does not lie with the Government of the Northwest Territories. We have always encouraged and supported the two parties getting together to resolve that particular issue and we have tried over the last difficult months to have ongoing meetings with all interested parties in Yellowknife and the people responsible so that everyone will have the same level of information and updating on how much has been going on. As a government we continue to give all the support for the two parties to resolve their issues as well as continue to address the Minister of Labour that he is the one who has the jurisdictional responsibility. We will continue to do that. Thank you.

Return To Question 206-12(3): Government Leader's Role In Solving Royal Oak Dispute
Question 206-12(3): Government Leader's Role In Solving Royal Oak Dispute
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 374

The Speaker Michael Ballantyne

Item 5, Oral Questions. Supplementary, Mr. Whitford.

Supplementary To Question 206-12(3): Government Leader's Role In Solving Royal Oak Dispute
Question 206-12(3): Government Leader's Role In Solving Royal Oak Dispute
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 374

Tony Whitford

Tony Whitford Yellowknife South

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Jurisdiction is one thing. The Government Leader is probably correct in saying that it is a federal responsibility. Would the Government Leader use her personal influence or her own government office to try to dislodge the stalemate which appears to be there? On behalf of all the people of the territories that she represents, using her own personal rapport, can she try to get both sides to very seriously consider the next step and come to a resolution?

Supplementary To Question 206-12(3): Government Leader's Role In Solving Royal Oak Dispute
Question 206-12(3): Government Leader's Role In Solving Royal Oak Dispute
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 375

The Speaker Michael Ballantyne

Ms. Cournoyea.

Further Return To Question 206-12(3): Government Leader's Role In Solving Royal Oak Dispute
Question 206-12(3): Government Leader's Role In Solving Royal Oak Dispute
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 375

Nellie Cournoyea Nunakput

Mr. Speaker, the honourable Member has certainly brought up a very serious issue. I know that we all would like to be in a more responsible position of jurisdiction to do more than we can. At this point in time I do not know if there is a stalemate. The encouraging sign is that the negotiators are continuing to work. They have not given up. The parties are still encouraged to get together. My information does indicate that the negotiators are still around. They are still willing to continue to work on this problem. Thank you.

Further Return To Question 206-12(3): Government Leader's Role In Solving Royal Oak Dispute
Question 206-12(3): Government Leader's Role In Solving Royal Oak Dispute
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 375

The Speaker Michael Ballantyne

Item 5, Oral Questions. Mr. Koe.

Question 207-12(3): Investigation On House In Repulse Bay
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 375

Fred Koe Inuvik

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I would like to ask Mr. Todd a question, but I am not sure what he is responsible for. I will ask a question to the Minister responsible for the Housing Corporation. Recently, my colleague, Mr. Ningark, and I had the privilege of travelling to Repulse Bay. While visiting the community health committee we were advised of the situation with one of the housing units in the community. The Minister was advised of this right after our visit. In one of the houses, Mr. Speaker, there were mushrooms growing out of the wood. These mushrooms cause the disease called pulmonary inflammation. It affects the residents. Has the Minister or staff investigated this situation? Do you have an update on what is happening with this unit?

Question 207-12(3): Investigation On House In Repulse Bay
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 375

The Speaker Michael Ballantyne

Mr. Morin.

Return To Question 207-12(3): Investigation On House In Repulse Bay
Question 207-12(3): Investigation On House In Repulse Bay
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 375

Don Morin Tu Nedhe

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I have instructed my staff to look into this issue. I would like to thank the Member for raising the issue. As soon as my staff gets back to me by the end of the week, I will get back to the Member. Thank you.

Return To Question 207-12(3): Investigation On House In Repulse Bay
Question 207-12(3): Investigation On House In Repulse Bay
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 375

The Speaker Michael Ballantyne

Item 5, Oral Questions. Supplementary, Mr. Koe.

Supplementary To Question 207-12(3): Investigation On House In Repulse Bay
Question 207-12(3): Investigation On House In Repulse Bay
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 375

Fred Koe Inuvik

It has been almost four weeks now since the issue was raised. People are still living in the unit. The nurses have a report stating that this is a serious matter. Because of the lack of housing in this community, people have to live in houses such as this. I urge the Minister to act quickly to look at this. I have no question on the matter.

Supplementary To Question 207-12(3): Investigation On House In Repulse Bay
Question 207-12(3): Investigation On House In Repulse Bay
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 375

The Speaker Michael Ballantyne

Mr. Morin.

Further Return To Question 207-12(3): Investigation On House In Repulse Bay
Question 207-12(3): Investigation On House In Repulse Bay
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 375

Don Morin Tu Nedhe

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I have instructed my department to rectify the problem. I hope it is done. I will get back to the Member this week. Thank you.

Further Return To Question 207-12(3): Investigation On House In Repulse Bay
Question 207-12(3): Investigation On House In Repulse Bay
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 375

The Speaker Michael Ballantyne

Thank you. I would like to take this opportunity to recognize in the gallery, six visitors from Italy: two members of the Fur Council of Italy, a journalist and a film crew. The tour is being coordinated by the Fur Institute of Canada and the Department of Renewable Resources. They are here to collect material to produce an Italian film in an exhibit promoting trapping in the wild fur industry of northern Canada.

---Applause

Further Return To Question 207-12(3): Investigation On House In Repulse Bay
Question 207-12(3): Investigation On House In Repulse Bay
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 375

The Speaker Michael Ballantyne

Mr. Antoine.

Question 208-12(3): Assignment Of Portfolios To New Ministers
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 375

Jim Antoine Nahendeh

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. My question is for the Government Leader. We have gone through a process on Friday and today to select three new Ministers. Watching across the hall from here, I see Rebecca and John doing very little. I wanted to ask them some questions. I do not know which questions to ask them. When will we know what kind of questions to ask these new Ministers? Thank you.

Question 208-12(3): Assignment Of Portfolios To New Ministers
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 375

The Speaker Michael Ballantyne

Ms. Cournoyea.

Return To Question 208-12(3): Assignment Of Portfolios To New Ministers
Question 208-12(3): Assignment Of Portfolios To New Ministers
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 375

Nellie Cournoyea Nunakput

Mr. Speaker, lately some Members have been pressing me on when the portfolios would be awarded. As I have said, I wanted to have this concluded to see who the additional Member was so that all the strengths could be taken into consideration when awarding portfolios. I intend to do that tonight even if it takes me all night. Thank you.

---Applause.

Return To Question 208-12(3): Assignment Of Portfolios To New Ministers
Question 208-12(3): Assignment Of Portfolios To New Ministers
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 375

The Speaker Michael Ballantyne

Item 5, Oral Questions. Supplementary, Mr. Antoine.

Supplementary To Question 208-12(3): Assignment Of Portfolios To New Ministers
Question 208-12(3): Assignment Of Portfolios To New Ministers
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 375

Jim Antoine Nahendeh

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I have worked with the other Members who have resigned, such as Tony Whitford and Dennis Patterson. We had some initiatives going. I know some of the Members are acting Ministers. I want to make sure that these initiatives do not get left by the wayside. I wanted to ask the Government Leader to make sure that this does not happen. Thank you.

Supplementary To Question 208-12(3): Assignment Of Portfolios To New Ministers
Question 208-12(3): Assignment Of Portfolios To New Ministers
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 375

The Speaker Michael Ballantyne

Ms. Cournoyea.

Return To Question 208-12(3): Assignment Of Portfolios To New Ministers
Question 208-12(3): Assignment Of Portfolios To New Ministers
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 376

Nellie Cournoyea Nunakput

Mr. Speaker, the honourable Members Todd and Mike have requested that they be briefed to make sure that they are fully aware of the initiatives undertaken by the person who had the former responsibility. I intend to do this to make sure that we do not lose the momentum. I know it seems disruptive but to make sure that life goes on, there will be that full briefing. I hope we will not miss any of those initiatives. As you know, each of the former Members had executive assistants and they have been asked to list the issues that have to be taken care of. Thank you.

Return To Question 208-12(3): Assignment Of Portfolios To New Ministers
Question 208-12(3): Assignment Of Portfolios To New Ministers
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 376

The Speaker Michael Ballantyne

Item 5, Oral Questions. Mr. Arngna'naaq.

Question 209-12(3): Overall Economic Plan For The N.w.t.
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 376

Silas Arngna'naaq Kivallivik

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. My question is for the Minister of Economic Development and Tourism. During the Committee of the Whole on Monday, the Minister stated that decentralization is part of an economic plan for the N.W.T. I would like to know if there is an overall economic plan for the Northwest Territories?

Question 209-12(3): Overall Economic Plan For The N.w.t.
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 376

The Speaker Michael Ballantyne

Mr. Pollard.

Return To Question 209-12(3): Overall Economic Plan For The N.w.t.
Question 209-12(3): Overall Economic Plan For The N.w.t.
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 376

John Pollard Hay River

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, if I was to say that I could bring a written economic plan into this House, then I would be stating pie in the sky. The situation changes so rapidly. Is there an economic strategy? Yes, Mr. Speaker, our economic strategy is, by whatever means possible put people back to work. You can see that in this Cabinet it is being done, and by the responsibility of other departments, other than Economic Development and Tourism, to get involved in that.

Mr. Morin's departments are a good example of where he has gone out and negotiated contracts and made sure that northerners are put to work. In the area of housing we are breaking out packages so that people who manufacture goods in the Northwest Territories will have a chance to bid on those products and have them built in the Northwest Territories. We have an underlying strategy for more manufacturing in the Northwest Territories. We are encouraging large companies which may be in the oil and gas business or the mining business, to work with us and work with communities so that we can make sure that communities get a fair deal from these companies, that northerners are employed and northern businesses are engaged to support those companies.

We are working very hard in the arts and crafts industry. To that end we are looking at marketing. Across the Northwest Territories there is a great resurgence in fisheries, not only in Great Slave Lake but also in Rankin Inlet. There is interest in the Kitikmeot and, of course, in Pangnirtung where we are having quite a bit of success.

To say that there is a written strategy would be pie in the sky. We are trying to build on our strengths. We are trying to build on the strengths of the people in the Northwest Territories. It applies to all departments. The Department of Education has recognized that it must educate the young people of the Northwest Territories. If we are going to create jobs we must make sure that those people are educated well enough to do it.

Decentralization fits in, Mr. Speaker, as I have said before, in building strong regional centres. We believe that strong regional centres in the end will build strong regions and create a transportation system across the Northwest Territories that would allow commerce to flow. These are the goals that we have. There are a lot more, Mr. Speaker, but generally economic issues are discussed around the Cabinet table, and all departments are encouraged to make use of the funds or the activities within their departments to promote business and job creation in the Northwest Territories. Thank you.

Return To Question 209-12(3): Overall Economic Plan For The N.w.t.
Question 209-12(3): Overall Economic Plan For The N.w.t.
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 376

The Speaker Michael Ballantyne

Item 5, Oral Questions. Mr. Zoe.

Question 210-12(3): Kitikmeot And North Slave Regions Included In Decentralization
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 376

Henry Zoe

Henry Zoe North Slave

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. My question is for the Minister of Economic Development and Tourism. From the response just given to us, Mr. Speaker, I would like to ask the Minister why two regions were left out in this whole decentralization plan, if the government is intending to make all the regional centres strong, including the Kitikmeot and the North Slave regions?

Question 210-12(3): Kitikmeot And North Slave Regions Included In Decentralization
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 376

The Speaker Michael Ballantyne

Mr. Pollard.

Return To Question 210-12(3): Kitikmeot And North Slave Regions Included In Decentralization
Question 210-12(3): Kitikmeot And North Slave Regions Included In Decentralization
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 376

John Pollard Hay River

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, as I have said before, decentralization of the government is only a part of making strong regional centres. There are some centres in the Northwest Territories that are looking at very bright futures because of natural resources that occur within their jurisdiction. When we are trying to build on the strengths of communities or regions then we take those things into consideration as well. We believe that the mining industry will drive the Kitikmeot eventually. It is not very far down the road, Mr. Speaker. The same applies to the Dogrib area; there is a requirement for power in Yellowknife and there may be a requirement for power for those mining companies that are going to be working in the Dogrib areas. That is part of the economic plan. We can build on community strength. In the Dogrib area they have enough water capacity to generate electricity. That is the area in which we have chosen to work with the Dogrib Nation and they have agreed. It looks like they will have a bright future owning, operating and selling to us the power from those hydro dams. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Return To Question 210-12(3): Kitikmeot And North Slave Regions Included In Decentralization
Question 210-12(3): Kitikmeot And North Slave Regions Included In Decentralization
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 376

The Speaker Michael Ballantyne

Item 5, Oral Questions. Supplementary, Mr. Zoe.

Return To Question 210-12(3): Kitikmeot And North Slave Regions Included In Decentralization
Question 210-12(3): Kitikmeot And North Slave Regions Included In Decentralization
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 376

Henry Zoe

Henry Zoe North Slave

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I will follow-up on the response given to me by the Minister. The decentralization initiative being put forward by this government is a sure thing. As for the response the Minister has given to us with regard to the mining activity and hydro development,

we know the potential is there but it may not occur. We do not know when this is going to occur, particularly in the Kitikmeot and North Slave regions. How can the Minister say that they are looking at these particular things to happen in these two regions? It is not a sure thing, as opposed to what the government is doing in terms of decentralizing to these other four or five regions. I think the government has to take that into consideration and make sure that these two regions are looked after in this decentralization plan.

Return To Question 210-12(3): Kitikmeot And North Slave Regions Included In Decentralization
Question 210-12(3): Kitikmeot And North Slave Regions Included In Decentralization
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 377

The Speaker Michael Ballantyne

Do you have a question, Mr. Zoe? Mr. Zoe.

Supplementary To Question 210-12(3): Kitikmeot And North Slave Regions Included In Decentralization
Question 210-12(3): Kitikmeot And North Slave Regions Included In Decentralization
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 377

Henry Zoe

Henry Zoe North Slave

My question is, will the Minister reconsider this whole decentralization plan including the two worst-off regions in the plan?

Supplementary To Question 210-12(3): Kitikmeot And North Slave Regions Included In Decentralization
Question 210-12(3): Kitikmeot And North Slave Regions Included In Decentralization
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 377

The Speaker Michael Ballantyne

Mr. Pollard.

Further Return To Question 210-12(3): Kitikmeot And North Slave Regions Included In Decentralization
Question 210-12(3): Kitikmeot And North Slave Regions Included In Decentralization
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 377

John Pollard Hay River

Mr. Speaker, I will not reconsider the decentralization plan that is before the House and that Cabinet is implementing at this particular time. Mr. Speaker, we believe we made the best decisions we could under the circumstances. I have said to the Member before, the hydro does not depend on whether or not a mining company decides to go and dig a hole in the ground. We know that Yellowknife is short of power. If that power can be produced by a Dogrib company that owns and operates those hydro dams, then the market is there. It just means working hard and making sure that those projects go ahead because the market is there. It is virtually a sure thing, Mr. Speaker, thank you.

Further Return To Question 210-12(3): Kitikmeot And North Slave Regions Included In Decentralization
Question 210-12(3): Kitikmeot And North Slave Regions Included In Decentralization
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 377

The Speaker Michael Ballantyne

Item 5, Oral Questions. Mr. Dent.

Question 211-12(3): Minister's Personal Involvement In Negotiations With Moving Industry
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 377

Charles Dent

Charles Dent Yellowknife Frame Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. My question is for the Minister of Personnel. Mr. Speaker, earlier today I again raised my concern about the Department of Personnel's approach of dictating rates to the northern moving industry rather than negotiating them. My question is, can the Minister advise since this issue was raised in the House on September, 1992, if he has taken a personal involvement in the department's approach to negotiations with the moving industry?

Question 211-12(3): Minister's Personal Involvement In Negotiations With Moving Industry
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 377

The Speaker Michael Ballantyne

Mr. Kakfwi.

Return To Question 211-12(3): Minister's Personal Involvement In Negotiations With Moving Industry
Question 211-12(3): Minister's Personal Involvement In Negotiations With Moving Industry
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 377

Stephen Kakfwi

Stephen Kakfwi Sahtu

I do not know if you would call it negotiations, but I have been asked to be keet briefed on the discussions as they progress. I feel satisfied with the amount of movement that has been shown both by the government and the group of movers who have had discussions with our officials. Thank you.

Return To Question 211-12(3): Minister's Personal Involvement In Negotiations With Moving Industry
Question 211-12(3): Minister's Personal Involvement In Negotiations With Moving Industry
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 377

The Speaker Michael Ballantyne

Item 5, Oral Questions. Supplementary, Mr. Dent.

Supplementary To Question 211-12(3): Minister's Personal Involvement In Negotiations With Moving Industry
Question 211-12(3): Minister's Personal Involvement In Negotiations With Moving Industry
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 377

Charles Dent

Charles Dent Yellowknife Frame Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. This is a supplementary to the same Minister. Can the Minister advise if it is correct that Department of Personnel officials have been directed to implement only the originally proposed line haul rates?

Supplementary To Question 211-12(3): Minister's Personal Involvement In Negotiations With Moving Industry
Question 211-12(3): Minister's Personal Involvement In Negotiations With Moving Industry
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 377

The Speaker Michael Ballantyne

Mr. Kakfwi.

Further Return To Question 211-12(3): Minister's Personal Involvement In Negotiations With Moving Industry
Question 211-12(3): Minister's Personal Involvement In Negotiations With Moving Industry
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 377

Stephen Kakfwi

Stephen Kakfwi Sahtu

Mr. Speaker, originally the tariff that we had proposed to implement was designed along the federal government's removal tariff. This has been unacceptable to the movers, except for two moving companies which had no difficulty with the original proposed removal tariff. As a result of the call by the Member, we agreed to sit down and negotiate some changes. We have not made a final decision on a final tariff. We have not settled on the date when the new tariff would come into effect.

Further Return To Question 211-12(3): Minister's Personal Involvement In Negotiations With Moving Industry
Question 211-12(3): Minister's Personal Involvement In Negotiations With Moving Industry
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 377

The Speaker Michael Ballantyne

Item 5, Oral Questions. Supplementary, Mr. Dent.

Supplementary To Question 211-12(3): Minister's Personal Involvement In Negotiations With Moving Industry
Question 211-12(3): Minister's Personal Involvement In Negotiations With Moving Industry
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 377

Charles Dent

Charles Dent Yellowknife Frame Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. This is a further supplementary to the same Minister. These serious concerns continue with the process of negotiations here and the department officials seem to be unwilling to bend on the line haul rates. I recognize that there has been some compromise on other issues at the table. According to the industry sources those issues tend to be the minor ones in the business. The big issue is the line haul rates. Is the Minister willing to provide specific direction to his officials to adjust their position on the line haul rates and to enter into negotiations?

Supplementary To Question 211-12(3): Minister's Personal Involvement In Negotiations With Moving Industry
Question 211-12(3): Minister's Personal Involvement In Negotiations With Moving Industry
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 377

The Speaker Michael Ballantyne

Mr. Kakfwi.

Further Return To Question 211-12(3): Minister's Personal Involvement In Negotiations With Moving Industry
Question 211-12(3): Minister's Personal Involvement In Negotiations With Moving Industry
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 377

Stephen Kakfwi

Stephen Kakfwi Sahtu

Mr. Speaker, when we entered the year we indicated and were directed to find some way to provide cost savings in the area of removals by developing a new removal tariff. We had come up with a new tariff. We had projected our budget based on the idea that the new removal tariff would be implemented some time this year and we budgeted accordingly. The objective of the government is still to provide some savings by implementing a new tariff aside from the fact that it is necessary for both the industry and ourselves to have clear guidelines and procedures on how we are going to do business together. The department officials have been directed to come up with a tariff that would provide significant savings to the government. Because of the delay and the proposed changes the initial projected savings that we had hoped to get have diminished significantly. It remains more a political decision as to what is acceptable to the

Members of the Legislature and the Executive on what would be a reasonable compromise. I fail to see where the officials can do any more than they have already.

Further Return To Question 211-12(3): Minister's Personal Involvement In Negotiations With Moving Industry
Question 211-12(3): Minister's Personal Involvement In Negotiations With Moving Industry
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 378

The Speaker Michael Ballantyne

Item 5, Oral Questions. Supplementary, Mr. Dent.

Supplementary To Question 211-12(3): Minister's Personal Involvement In Negotiations With Moving Industry
Question 211-12(3): Minister's Personal Involvement In Negotiations With Moving Industry
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 378

Charles Dent

Charles Dent Yellowknife Frame Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. This is a supplementary to the same Minister. The Minister's answer to my last question leads me right back to the beginning. Since he says that his departmental officials have reached their limits, will he take a personal involvement in this issue to deal with it? If it has to be a political decision, will he take the steps to get involved and make that political decision?

Supplementary To Question 211-12(3): Minister's Personal Involvement In Negotiations With Moving Industry
Question 211-12(3): Minister's Personal Involvement In Negotiations With Moving Industry
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 378

The Speaker Michael Ballantyne

Mr. Kakfwi.

Further Return To Question 211-12(3): Minister's Personal Involvement In Negotiations With Moving Industry
Question 211-12(3): Minister's Personal Involvement In Negotiations With Moving Industry
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 378

Stephen Kakfwi

Stephen Kakfwi Sahtu

Mr. Speaker, what I am prepared to do is go back to the Executive with modifications to the original tariff that we had proposed. The modifications would be a result of the discussions we have had with the moving companies. I would be prepared to sit down with the Member before I do that to make sure that whatever I go forward with, in his view, is a reasonable approach to the situation. Thank you.

Further Return To Question 211-12(3): Minister's Personal Involvement In Negotiations With Moving Industry
Question 211-12(3): Minister's Personal Involvement In Negotiations With Moving Industry
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 378

The Speaker Michael Ballantyne

Item 5, Oral Questions. Mr. Koe.

Question 212-12(3): Status Of Health Billings Dispute
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 378

Fred Koe Inuvik

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I have a question for the Minister of Health. Earlier in this session, we were advised and given documentation about the statement of claim between the Government of the Northwest Territories and the federal government regarding health care billings. Can the Minister advise this House as to the status of this health care billings dispute?

Question 212-12(3): Status Of Health Billings Dispute
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 378

The Speaker Michael Ballantyne

Mr. Pollard.

Return To Question 212-12(3): Status Of Health Billings Dispute
Question 212-12(3): Status Of Health Billings Dispute
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 378

John Pollard Hay River

Mr. Speaker, we filed more than thirty days ago. The federal government was supposed to respond to us in federal court by last Friday. By last Friday they had not filed. These are the instructions we gave to our lawyers today: "In view of the fact that the Department of Justice has not filed a statement of defence, given a suitable explanation and undertaken filing within the time reasonable, under the circumstances, please take this communication as your instruction to note judgement against the defendant either final or interlocutory as the facts of the law may permit during the afternoon of Friday, December 11, 1992." In other words, Mr. Speaker, if they have not responded to us by that time, our lawyers will be going before the judge and asking for him to instruct them to pay us the $79 million. Thank you.

Return To Question 212-12(3): Status Of Health Billings Dispute
Question 212-12(3): Status Of Health Billings Dispute
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 378

The Speaker Michael Ballantyne

Item 5, Oral Questions. Supplementary, Mr. Koe.

Supplementary To Question 212-12(3): Status Of Health Billings Dispute
Question 212-12(3): Status Of Health Billings Dispute
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 378

Fred Koe Inuvik

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Is the amount we are dealing with still $79 million? Is that the projected deficit for health care billings?

Supplementary To Question 212-12(3): Status Of Health Billings Dispute
Question 212-12(3): Status Of Health Billings Dispute
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 378

The Speaker Michael Ballantyne

Mr. Pollard.

Further Return To Question 212-12(3): Status Of Health Billings Dispute
Question 212-12(3): Status Of Health Billings Dispute
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 378

John Pollard Hay River

Mr. Speaker, that is the amount that we have got in court at the present time. It covers us up to March 31 of this year. It does not include the portion between April 1 of this year and now.

Further Return To Question 212-12(3): Status Of Health Billings Dispute
Question 212-12(3): Status Of Health Billings Dispute
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 378

The Speaker Michael Ballantyne

Item 5, Oral Questions. Supplementary, Mr. Koe.

Supplementary To Question 212-12(3): Status Of Health Billings Dispute
Question 212-12(3): Status Of Health Billings Dispute
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 378

Fred Koe Inuvik

Does the Minister have any idea how much that amount is from April until now?

Supplementary To Question 212-12(3): Status Of Health Billings Dispute
Question 212-12(3): Status Of Health Billings Dispute
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 378

The Speaker Michael Ballantyne

Mr. Pollard.

Further Return To Question 212-12(3): Status Of Health Billings Dispute
Question 212-12(3): Status Of Health Billings Dispute
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 378

John Pollard Hay River

Mr. Speaker, I do not have the exact amount, but I will get that amount and provide the Member with it tomorrow. Thank you.

Further Return To Question 212-12(3): Status Of Health Billings Dispute
Question 212-12(3): Status Of Health Billings Dispute
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 378

The Speaker Michael Ballantyne

Item 5, Oral Questions. Mr. Arngna'naaq.

Question 213-12(3): Potential For Mine Opening In Rankin Inlet
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 378

Silas Arngna'naaq Kivallivik

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I would like to ask the Minister of Economic Development another question on decentralization. The Minister just indicated that the mining prospects are very good in the regions where positions are not being moved. What basis was used for Rankin Inlet as the prospects of a mine opening there are good as well?

Question 213-12(3): Potential For Mine Opening In Rankin Inlet
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 378

The Speaker Michael Ballantyne

Mr. Pollard.

Return To Question 213-12(3): Potential For Mine Opening In Rankin Inlet
Question 213-12(3): Potential For Mine Opening In Rankin Inlet
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 378

John Pollard Hay River

Mr. Speaker, the Member has the better of me with regard to Rankin Inlet. I do not have any knowledge of a potential mine opening there.

The rationale for decentralization to Rankin Inlet is very simple, Mr. Speaker. The Keewatin is a region. It is tightly knit. It seems to have its act together. The centre of activity is Rankin Inlet. It has got a fairly large runway. It has good transportation links across the country and it is the hub for that particular area for transportation. As I have described these regional centres before, they are two small to be big and too big to be small and it was felt that making Rankin Inlet a little larger, making it a better place to transport into and transport out of, would strengthen the whole region. In the end, Mr. Speaker, the benefits that accrue to Rankin Inlet will accrue to all of the Keewatin Region. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Return To Question 213-12(3): Potential For Mine Opening In Rankin Inlet
Question 213-12(3): Potential For Mine Opening In Rankin Inlet
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 379

The Speaker Michael Ballantyne

Item 5, Oral Questions. Mr. Whitford.

Question 214-12(3): Justice Of The Peace Program
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 379

Tony Whitford

Tony Whitford Yellowknife South

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I would like to conclude my questioning from yesterday to the Minister of Justice regarding the Justices of the Peace Program. First of all, I thank him for the information that he gave me yesterday in dealing with the subject of the recommendations of the Task Force on Justices of the Peace four years ago. Mr. Speaker, as in all recommendations to implement programs such as that, there are bound to be some bugs in the system and I would like to know if, before the recommendations go too far, an evaluation is going to be made and done on some of the recommendations that are already in place. I would like to ask the Minister whether his department is proposing to carry out an evaluation as to how effective these recommendations are so that we do not go too far with some of them if they are not quite what would be effective.

Question 214-12(3): Justice Of The Peace Program
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 379

The Speaker Michael Ballantyne

Mr. Kakfwi.

Return To Question 214-12(3): Justice Of The Peace Program
Question 214-12(3): Justice Of The Peace Program
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 379

Stephen Kakfwi

Stephen Kakfwi Sahtu

Mr. Speaker, the Member is asking for an evaluation to be done on the effectiveness of the response we have given to each of the recommendations and the work that has been done to implement the recommendations and to assess the current results of our response to those recommendations. I asked the Department of Justice yesterday, right after question period, if it would do a summary assessing the effectiveness of our follow-up to those recommendations. Thank you.

Return To Question 214-12(3): Justice Of The Peace Program
Question 214-12(3): Justice Of The Peace Program
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 379

The Speaker Michael Ballantyne

Item 5, Oral Questions. Mrs. Marie-Jewell.

Return To Question 214-12(3): Justice Of The Peace Program
Question 214-12(3): Justice Of The Peace Program
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 379

Jeannie Marie-Jewell Thebacha

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I seek unanimous consent to extend question period.

Return To Question 214-12(3): Justice Of The Peace Program
Question 214-12(3): Justice Of The Peace Program
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 379

The Speaker Michael Ballantyne

The honourable Member is seeking unanimous consent. Are there any nays? There are no nays. Please proceed, Mrs. Marie-Jewell.

Question 215-12(3): Negotiations With Parks Canada Regarding Winter Road
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 379

Jeannie Marie-Jewell Thebacha

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I would like to direct my questions to the acting Minister of Transportation. Mr. Speaker, the Minister is aware that I have been working on trying to get a road south through Wood Buffalo National Park. I would like to ask the Minister if he would take the initiative of the town of Fort Smith, myself and that many people have been working on as part of his negotiations when he sits down with Parks Canada and the Alberta government. Thank you.

Question 215-12(3): Negotiations With Parks Canada Regarding Winter Road
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 379

The Speaker Michael Ballantyne

Mr. Pollard.

Return To Question 215-12(3): Negotiations With Parks Canada Regarding Winter Road
Question 215-12(3): Negotiations With Parks Canada Regarding Winter Road
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 379

John Pollard Hay River

Mr. Speaker, in my discussions with Mr. Shield, he was aware of the need for a road out of Fort Smith going through the park. He said that he is willing, as part of the discussions on the winter road, to work with the people of Fort Smith, the people of northern Alberta, the Alberta government and the federal government to try to resolve this matter. So it will be part of the discussions. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Return To Question 215-12(3): Negotiations With Parks Canada Regarding Winter Road
Question 215-12(3): Negotiations With Parks Canada Regarding Winter Road
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 379

The Speaker Michael Ballantyne

Item 5, Oral Questions. Item 6, Written Questions. Item 7, Returns to Written Questions. Item 8, Replies to Opening Address. Item 9, Petitions. Item 10, Reports of Standing and Special Committees. Item 11, Reports of Committees on the Review of Bills. Mr. Arngna'naaq.

Item 11: Reports Of Committees On The Review Of Bills
Item 11: Reports Of Committees On The Review Of Bills

Page 379

Silas Arngna'naaq Kivallivik

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I wish to report to the Assembly that the Standing Committee on Legislation has reviewed Bill 15, an Act to Amend the Wildlife Act, and wishes to report that Bill 15 is now ready for Committee of the Whole. Mr. Speaker, I seek unanimous consent to waive Rule 66(5) and have Bill 15 moved into Committee of the Whole today.

Item 11: Reports Of Committees On The Review Of Bills
Item 11: Reports Of Committees On The Review Of Bills

Page 379

The Speaker Michael Ballantyne

The honourable Member is seeking unanimous consent. Are there any nays? There are no nays. Pursuant to Rule 66(3) and on the order of the Assembly, Bill 15 is ordered into Committee of the Whole for today. Item 11, Reports of Committees on the Review of Bills. Item 12, Tabling of Documents. Item 13, Notices of Motion. Mr. Lewis.

Motion 10-12(3): Appointment To Fill Vacancy On Executive Council, Cabinet
Item 13: Notices Of Motion

Page 379

Brian Lewis Yellowknife Centre

Mr. Speaker, I give notice that on Friday, December 11, 1992, I will move the following motion. Therefore I move, seconded by the honourable Member for Iqaluit, that this Legislative Assembly recommend to the Commissioner of the Northwest Territories that Richard Nerysoo, the Member for Mackenzie Delta, be appointed to the Executive Council Cabinet. Mr. Speaker, at the appropriate time, I will be seeking unanimous consent to proceed with this motion today.

Motion 10-12(3): Appointment To Fill Vacancy On Executive Council, Cabinet
Item 13: Notices Of Motion

Page 379

The Speaker Michael Ballantyne

Notices of Motion. Item 14, Notices of Motions for First Reading of Bills. Item 15, Motions. Mr. Lewis.

Item 15: Motions
Item 15: Motions

Page 379

Brian Lewis Yellowknife Centre

Mr. Speaker, I seek unanimous consent to proceed with my motion on the appointment to fill a vacancy on Executive Council Cabinet.

Item 15: Motions
Item 15: Motions

Page 380

The Speaker Michael Ballantyne

The honourable Member is seeking unanimous consent. Are there any nays? There are no nays. Please proceed, Mr. Lewis.

Motion 10-12(3): Appointment To Fill Vacancy On Executive Council, Cabinet
Item 15: Motions

Page 380

Brian Lewis Yellowknife Centre

WHEREAS section 55(1) of the Legislative Assembly and Executive Council Act requires that there shall be an Executive Council of the Northwest Territories;

AND WHEREAS a vacancy exists on the Executive Council due to the resignation of Mr. Whitford, the Member for Yellowknife South;

AND WHEREAS it is desirable to fill this vacancy;

AND WHEREAS Members of the Executive Council are appointed by the Commissioner on the recommendations of this Assembly;

NOW THEREFORE I MOVE, seconded by the honourable Member for Iqaluit, that this Legislative Assembly recommend to the Commissioner of the Northwest Territories that Richard Nerysoo, the Member for Mackenzie Delta, be appointed to the Executive Council Cabinet.

Motion 10-12(3): Appointment To Fill Vacancy On Executive Council, Cabinet
Item 15: Motions

Page 380

The Speaker Michael Ballantyne

The motion is in order. To the motion. Mr. Lewis.

Motion 10-12(3): Appointment To Fill Vacancy On Executive Council, Cabinet
Item 15: Motions

Page 380

An Hon. Member

Question.

Motion 10-12(3): Appointment To Fill Vacancy On Executive Council, Cabinet
Item 15: Motions

Page 380

The Speaker Michael Ballantyne

Question has been called. Seconder to the motion, Mr. Patterson.

Motion 10-12(3): Appointment To Fill Vacancy On Executive Council, Cabinet
Item 15: Motions

Page 380

Dennis Patterson Iqaluit

Very briefly, Mr. Speaker, I am pleased to second this nomination. I have had the pleasure of serving with Mr. Nerysoo since we were both elected to the 9th Legislative Assembly in 1979 and I concur with Mr. Lewis's earlier comments today that Mr. Nerysoo has been awaiting an opportunity like this for some years. He served this House well as Speaker but I think it is an appropriate time for him to apply his considerable experience to the Executive Council. I believe that he has the energy and the desire to do a good job and I have no hesitation in seconding this motion and wishing him and his other new colleagues on the Executive Council every success. I am confident they will do the best job they can in these difficult times and I will say again that I hope they will do so in a renewed climate of improved communication and cooperation. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Motion 10-12(3): Appointment To Fill Vacancy On Executive Council, Cabinet
Item 15: Motions

Page 380

The Speaker Michael Ballantyne

To the motion. Question is being called. Mr. Lewis, you have the opportunity to conclude debate.

Motion 10-12(3): Appointment To Fill Vacancy On Executive Council, Cabinet
Item 15: Motions

Page 380

An Hon. Member

Question.

Motion 10-12(3): Appointment To Fill Vacancy On Executive Council, Cabinet
Item 15: Motions

Page 380

The Speaker Michael Ballantyne

Question has been called. All those in favour? All those opposed? Motion is carried.

---Carried

---Applause

Motion 10-12(3): Appointment To Fill Vacancy On Executive Council, Cabinet
Item 15: Motions

Page 380

The Speaker Michael Ballantyne

Mr. Morin.

Motion 10-12(3): Appointment To Fill Vacancy On Executive Council, Cabinet
Item 15: Motions

Page 380

Don Morin Tu Nedhe

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I seek unanimous consent to go back to Tabling of Documents.

Motion 10-12(3): Appointment To Fill Vacancy On Executive Council, Cabinet
Item 15: Motions

Page 380

The Speaker Michael Ballantyne

The honourable Member is seeking consent. Are there any nays? There are no nays. Please proceed, Mr. Morin.

Revert Back To Item 12: Tabling Of Documents
Revert Back To Item 12: Tabling Of Documents

Page 380

Don Morin Tu Nedhe

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I would like to table Tabled Document 33-12(3), Establishing a "Shell Corporation" by the N.W.T. Housing Corporation. Thank You.

Revert Back To Item 12: Tabling Of Documents
Revert Back To Item 12: Tabling Of Documents

Page 380

The Speaker Michael Ballantyne

Item 12, Tabling of Documents. Item 16, First Reading of Bills. Item 17, Second Reading of Bills. Item 18, Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters: Tabled Document 2-12(3), "The Justice House", Report of the Special Advisor on Gender Equality; Appearance of the Languages Commissioner; Bill 4, An Act to Amend the Public Trustee Act; Bill 5, An Act to Amend the Social Assistance Act; Bill 6, An Act to Amend the Commercial Tenancies Act; Bill 11, An Act to Amend the Legislative Assembly and Executive Council Act; and, Bill 15, An Act to Amend the Wildlife Act, with Mr. Pudluk in the Chair.

Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 380

The Chair Ludy Pudluk

I will call this committee to order. Before we begin, I would like to recognize Mr. Nick Sibbeston. He was a Member of this House for a very long time. He is very well known, a T.V. star.

---Laughter

---Applause

Thank you. We have a number of items. Tabled Document 2-12(3), Bill 4, Bill 5, Bill 6, Bill 11, Bill 15 and the appearance of the Languages Commissioner. What does this committee wish to do? Mr. Nerysoo.

Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 380

Richard Nerysoo Mackenzie Delta

I believe that it is suggested that we deal with the Languages Commissioner.

Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 380

The Chair Ludy Pudluk

Does this committee agree?

Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 380

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

---Agreed

Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 380

The Chair Ludy Pudluk

We will recess for 15 minutes.

---SHORT BREAK

Appearance Of The Languages Commissioner

Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 380

The Chair Ludy Pudluk

You have a copy of the report on your table. I would like to welcome the Languages Commissioner, Betty Harnum. Do you have an opening remarks at this time?

Languages Commissioner's Introductory Remarks

Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 381

Harnum

(Translation) I would like to thank all the M.L.A.'s for inviting me here to talk about the issues. I will try to clarify some of the things that we do. This is a new program and I do not think that it is very clear to some people. I will try to clarify the job that we do and the kind of things that we have done since February. I will talk in English. (Translation ends)

I would just like to say that I am glad to have this opportunity to speak to the Members because I think that since this whole process of having a Languages Commissioner has started I certainly have learned a lot. I think there is a lot that I can try to explain to the Members. I think there is still some misunderstanding about the role of the Languages Commissioner, exactly who I report to and how I report. Under the Official Languages Act there is an obligation for me to present an annual report once a year, after the termination of each year.

I started working in this job in February of this year, so that year will come to an end in February and that is when I intend to table my first annual report. I knew there were a lot of questions, although they were not always coming to me. I heard that there were lots of questions about what the Languages Commissioner was doing. What is this job? What is her role?

I decided it was probably a good idea to provide the Members with an interim report. You all have copies of that now. It was provided a few days ago so you would have time to look at it if you wanted to before this discussion. I had intended to give it to all the Members in the last session, but the report I did, I had reviewed by legal counsel and I was told to leave certain sections out, because I had listed some of the subject material of every complaint or inquiry that I had received. I was advised that I should not release that information. Section 24 of the Official Languages Act that says that anything that comes to my knowledge or comes to the knowledge of any of the staff working in my office should not be released. It is of a confidential nature, so I decided to leave the section off that dealt with all the complaints or inquiries that we have dealt with in the office.

I am prepared to discuss that type of thing, but only to a certain extent because I do not want to jeopardize any of the negotiations that I am going through with right now, to solve some of those complaints or to provide information for inquiries. If there are questions directed to me about specific complaints or inquiries I may ask to not respond if I feel that it is going to jeopardize any of the negotiations on a specific complaint. Other than that I am more than willing to provide any information about the operation of the office. The report you have in front of you outlines the objectives that we set at the beginning of the year, the steps we have taken so far and are in the process of taking to accomplish those objectives.

It has been ten months since I started this job in February. When I walked into the office it was several empty rooms. I was on my own at that time. I did spend some time just doing things like getting furniture, pencils, papers, faxes, phones, etc. That took some of my time before I was actually able to deal with some complaints or inquiries, although I was trying to do that at the same time. Within this year, although it has only been 10 months, we have dealt with probably 250 complaints and inquiries. Many of those are still in the process of being investigated or I am still working on providing answers to people, because I have to gather information from a lot of different sources and sometimes that takes a while to get.

One of the big things that I think we have managed to accomplish is sit down with the official languages section in Nellie's office and talked about how I should deal with the government because that was a big issue. When we first started, I was simply sending letters to deputy ministers or copies to the Ministers, or sometimes we would be calling government departments directly. Some employees in government departments felt uncomfortable about providing the information. When I met with the Government Leader's office, unfortunately that was the day Nellie was sick, which is a rare occasion, but we decided that all my requests for information would go through the deputy ministers and I would keep the official languages section in the Government Leader's office informed of all inquiries and all requests for information that I was making.

It took some time to work out those things. Even for me to appear here in the House, before I jumped at the chance, because I am more than willing to provide you with the information, I wanted to check myself to make sure that I was not doing anything contrary to the legislation by appearing in the House.

There were a number of issues that were raised. For example, Mr. Antoine asked a question and addressed it to the Minister responsible for the Languages Commissioner, but there is no Minister responsible for the Languages Commissioner. The arrangement is that I report to the Speaker of the House and I work for all the M.L.A.s. There is no Minister responsible for the Languages Commissioner. That raised an interesting question, and again when Mrs. Marie-Jewell asked her question she prefaced it with remarks saying she was not quite sure how to formulate the question, because she did not know to whom to address the question. I think that whole issue has now been dealt with. I looked into it myself and asked a legal counsel, what are the appropriate ways of addressing questions to the Languages Commissioner? Can questions be addressed in the House to the Languages Commissioner as there is nobody here directly responsible for the Languages Commissioner? I report through the Speaker of the House and the Speaker cannot take questions.

I wanted to make sure that by appearing here today I was not doing anything contrary to the legislation. I have been assured that it is right for me to be here and, in fact, that I should be here and that the Legislative Assembly does have the power to ask me to attend. I am glad I am able to do that.

I wanted to fill you in on some of the issues that we had to deal with. For everything we have done this year, it has been the first time that any of these things have happened. Every time I have wanted to go one step forward, I had to go five steps backwards to make sure I was doing things the way they should be done and that I was not doing anything contrary to the legislation.

Another major project that we did this year was get legal advice on the Official Languages Act to find out exactly what it means because there were no opinions other than those that had been done by the Department of Justice, and I was not allowed access to those because they were done for government departments. I was told to set up my own legal counsel and have independent legal advice. We advertised and have a contract now with a legal counsel. Some of this year has been spent going through the act and saying, "what exactly does this mean?" We spent quite a bit of time on that sort of thing.

I think that is all I want to say in the way of opening remarks. I just wanted to give you an idea of the kind of things we have been dealing with. I am happy to be here and I am happy to provide the information to any of your questions. Thank you. Mahsi.

Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 382

The Chair Ludy Pudluk

Thank you. Are there any general comments or questions? Mr. Ningark.

General Comments

Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 382

John Ningark Natilikmiot

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I would like to welcome, first of all, Betty Harnum to this committee and thank her for coming.

Mr. Chairman, I would like to ask the Languages Commissioner how many staff she has at the present time and if this staff is adequate to deal with the demand that is created by the public. I ask this, Mr. Chairman, because according to the interim activity report there seems to be a lot of work that has already been done and there are more things to be done, according to my understanding, given the limited human resources within the Languages Commissioner's office.

Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 382

The Chair Ludy Pudluk

Thank you. Languages Commissioner.

Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 382

Harnum

Yes, thank you. First, what I can do is introduce some of the staff who are working or have worked in the office. I have asked them to come here today just so I can introduce them to you. Perhaps they can stand or wave as I introduce them and then I will explain a little bit about the staff situation during the year and the current situation.

Gwen Ohokak is the executive secretary. Gwen is originally from Cambridge Bay and speaks Innuinaqtun and I stole her from the Department of Health.

Dora Duncan worked as one of the summer students on a research project for us when we were calling many of the organizations in the communities to find out what services were available and what issues they had.

Benoit Boutin is currently working on a contract for me doing a public information package. We are working on everything from a logo to a letterhead, business cards, Christmas cards, posters, brochures, all of that sort of thing.

John Blondin has been working since the summer and will be finished in a couple of weeks. He has been helping us gather the results of the surveys we sent. We have done a number of surveys in the communities and of all the government employees and we have a lot of information. We have 2,000 surveys lying in the office right now and a lot of information to analyze. I think that is all. Is anyone else here? No.

We also had Janice Mathewsie who you might know. She worked for the Legislative Assembly during the summer session and then she came over to my office and worked from July until October. She was working on the telephone survey we were doing of all the organizations in the communities.

Debbi Telgen was a casual secretary to begin with for about a month and a half. Faye Lawrence also helped with a survey in the summer for about a month.

So those are all the people who have been helping me and I would like to say something about the staff situation. In the main estimates, our office is allocated two full-time positions. My position and the executive secretary/administrative assistant position and that is Gwen Ohokak. She started in August. Up to that point I had casual secretaries. I am sorry, I forgot to mention Margaret Petten. She has gone to Ottawa now but she worked for a few months as a casual secretary.

Gwen and I are the only two full-time positions in the office. Aside from that, I was given a quarter of a person year for casual wages. I can report that I have already exceeded that and I think that perhaps you can see why, because we had some initial work to do. We had to gather quite a bit of information because I was not able to just get the information from government departments.

Because my office is at arm's length from the government, I do not have access to all of the information in government departments, so we had to gather some of our own information. I also wanted to gather information that was different in some ways from what the government offices had. So I have exceeded the casual budget but I have not exceeded the total budget for the year yet.

I have asked for another position because I think I need another full-time position; somebody who will assist with the research and with resolving complaints, because I am supposed to cover all of the territories and I have done a fair amount of travelling. There are a couple of regions that I have not been to or I have only been to one community in that region and so I feel that, with all the travelling I am supposed to do and meeting with community groups, to leave Gwen on her own in the office is a bit much and it would mean a lot of complaints and inquiries that come in would have to sit for a long time before they are dealt with.

As it is, I feel that I am slow in dealing with some of those and I would prefer to have more time to pay attention to them and deal with them more quickly, but I have so many things going on. Does that answer your question?

Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 382

The Chair Ludy Pudluk

Thank you, Mr. Ningark.

Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 382

John Ningark Natilikmiot

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Ms. Harnum, you have answered the question. Given that there is a fair amount of work done under the commission, I think it is very important that you outline the requirement for more staff within the Languages Commission's office.

Since you have been appointed to the commission, you and I, on two occasions I think, talked about things that are in the report. If I recall correctly, you mentioned that some time you would like to travel to Kitikmeot; Pelly Bay, Gjoa Haven, Spence Bay and other communities within the region.

I see the Languages Commission is a very important division within this government and the parents are encouraging their kids to learn the Inuktitut language which, unfortunately, is being lost in some of the communities. You know that, and we know that. Given that aspect, Mr. Chairman, I wonder if you have already consulted with the education council. Perhaps talking to the parents is important as well, and working with the regional education council. Have you had anyone approach you from these different groups of educators requesting or requiring some educational materials that can be used in the classroom? Has anyone approached you on working together with the community education council to come up with the materials that can be used by Inuktitut teachers in the classroom? Has that ever come up when you talk to people who are interested in preserving and promoting the language? Thank you.

Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 383

The Chair Ludy Pudluk

Thank you. Languages Commissioner.

Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 383

Harnum

Without stating specifically any individuals or any schools that have approached me, I can say that, yes, that has been brought up many times. There is a general feeling that there are not enough materials, particularly for certain dialects. There is a feeling that there are some materials being developed for certain dialects for certain languages but that other dialects do not have nearly as much material. I have had some requests about why certain languages have so much more than others.

I have visited a couple of the teaching and learning centres that are responsible for the development of materials for the schools, not for all of the development of materials, but they do quite a bit and I know that the staff in those centres are feeling very pressed. They feel they do not have enough people to do the job that needs to be done. So, yes, that has been brought up a number of times to me as a concern.

Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 383

The Chair Ludy Pudluk

Thank you. Are there any further questions? Mr. Ningark.

Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 383

John Ningark Natilikmiot

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. My final question. There is a diversity of dialects within our jurisdiction and there have been talks in the past, but not in this Legislature, about perhaps coming up with a uniform language within this system. Now, different dialects are unique in their own way and there are many people who have said they would like to retain their own dialect within their community.

Has anyone approached you on whether the education system should be working with the uniform language, especially in the eastern Arctic? The eastern Arctic language is the only form because you can understand and communicate and maybe debate within the same room from different regions. There are words that are different and the dialects are unique given the region. What is your position on this? Do you think that having a uniform language for the eastern Arctic is a priority for your commission, or do you think that retaining different dialects is more important? Thank you.

Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 383

The Chair Ludy Pudluk

Thank you. Languages Commissioner.

Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 383

Harnum

I understand your question well because it has been brought to my attention many times in all the years that I have worked with native languages in the north. I know that people are very concerned about being able to maintain their own dialect. At the same time there is a concern that, for example in the production of materials for schools, to produce one book in every dialect is going to be a lot more costly than having only one book in one dialect and circulating it to all the schools. What I have suggested to a lot of the people working in the materials development area is, if they could share materials so that one group does one story, another group does another story and then they trade. Then all they would have to do is adjust the text to the dialect.

What they did in the Katavik School Board was print books without any words in them. They had sticky labels in the back that you could pull out and put the proper words in for your dialect. There is a sheet with the text for each dialect and you put them in. The cost of printing in every single dialect is expensive. I have talked to people quite a bit about that sort of thing and how they can have enough materials available in every single dialect but still try to manage to save some costs. I think this is the big factor. You have to try to accomplish what you can with the dollars that are available. I have talked to them about the possibility of exchanging materials, or having a book printed without the text in and using labels. Whatever they can possibly do to exchange materials to help each other out in the developmental costs would be a benefit.

I am aware people want to preserve their own dialect. I think it is good for people from one dialect to read things in another dialect so that they become a bit more familiar with it. More and more people are coming together in meetings where they have to understand each other from different dialects. At the same time you can maintain your dialect but still become familiar with other dialects. It is not always possible to find one translation that suits every dialect. Having worked with the interpreters and translators, they try to find, if possible, one word that everybody can use but it is not always possible. Then you need separate versions for each dialect.

The other thing I did for groups such as the teaching and learning centres, was put together a list. I did a lot of research on sources of funding outside the G.N.W.T. because there are limited funds available from G.N.W.T. or through the Secretary of State agreement for materials, development or teaching courses. I did a fair amount of research this year on finding sources of funding from foundations, the federal government, Canada Council and other sources of funding that might help them to be able to publish some of the materials. In one teaching and learning centre they told me that they have a lot of materials ready, but they do not have the money to print them. They have a lot of material ready to go but the problem is that they do not have the funding to print or publish it and make a lot of copies. I was trying to help them find extra sources of funding to make that possible.

Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 383

The Chair Ludy Pudluk

Thank you. General comments. Mr. Arvaluk.

Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 384

James Arvaluk Aivilik

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. It is my understanding that the Languages Commissioner is responsible for languages, whether they be written or oral, to make sure that the official languages are used where applicable. For example, that the Inuktitut language is used in the government offices. From the beginning I did not see that the Languages Commissioner was to be responsible for producing materials for people to read, but rather to promote it in a way that the government departments and non-governmental agencies comply with the Languages Act. Can I get clarification on this before I go on and ask a second question?

Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 384

The Chair Ludy Pudluk

Languages Commissioner.

Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 384

Harnum

To respond to that, there are two sections of the Official Languages Act that I would point out. One is in the preamble that says that this government being committed to the preservation, development and enhancement of aboriginal languages does pass this act with all of its provisions. I am looking at any service which is provided by this government through any of its departments and looking at whether it meets those criteria. Does it assist to preserve, develop and enhance aboriginal languages?

The other section that I would draw attention to is 22.1 which says, "the Languages Commissioner shall investigate any reasonable complaint made to the Languages Commissioner arising from any act or omission to the effect that in any particular instance or case in the administration of the affairs of any government institution:

a)the status of an official language was, or is not being recognized; and

b)any provision of any act or regulation relating to the status or use of the official languages was not, or is not being complied with."

I would say that even as far as the Education Act is concerned, or any other act, if there are services that are not being provided, if they are not being used in such a way as to preserve, develop and enhance native languages then it is my jurisdiction to be involved in attempting to resolve complaints in that area.

Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 384

The Chair Ludy Pudluk

Thank you. Mr. Arvaluk.

Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 384

James Arvaluk Aivilik

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Thank you, Ms. Harnum, for that good answer. On page two of the report, section three, it says "began conducting an investigation to the language programs in one region." Do you relay the complaint to the government or non-governmental agency that the complaint is being made about, or do you investigate it yourself? What method do you use to enforce that?

Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 384

The Chair Ludy Pudluk

Languages Commissioner.

Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 384

Harnum

In response to that question, when I say investigation, what I have been doing in my own mind and in the practice in the office is distinguishing between large and small investigations. When I say I am doing an investigation into the language programs in one region, that particular one is a major investigation that I was asked to do by a number of organizations in that particular region. It is taking a long time to gather the information that is required.

I do a lot of other very short investigations. I prefer to call them inquiries, they are small investigations. It does not take as much time. I might get a specific complaint or inquiry and then I can get the information very quickly and resolve it or provide the person with the answer.

This particular one that I am referring to is a full blown investigation, looking at every aspect I possibly can, related to the language programs in that region. Yes, I do inform the departments that are involved. This is one of the first things I do. As soon as I get a complaint or an inquiry I send a letter to the government department and ask them about it. I give them a chance to respond to me and I inform them of the fact that I am looking into this. In this particular one it deals with the Department of Education, Culture and Employment Programs, and I contacted the previous Minister and deputy minister and met with them. I received their permission to go ahead and investigate with regard to things from within their department.

One of the interesting questions that arose from that particular investigation was the reporting relationship of boards to the Languages Commissioner. This act applies to all institutions of government. There were questions raised about if I wanted information from an education board, or health board and what is the proper procedure for them to provide the information to me. Should it be going through the deputy minister or Minister, or should it be coming directly to me? Those are the kinds of questions that are tying things up sometimes. It takes a while to get the information. I do all of those investigations and inquiries myself. Gwen provides the administrative support and we have had other staff in the office who have been doing the surveys and gathering of information from the communities on what services and programs are available, and what some of the issues are. With regard to any of these inquiries or complaints I do all of that work myself. Again, this is another reason why it takes a while to get the answers or to finally wrap some of these things up. There are sections in the act that grant the Languages Commissioner the powers to conduct investigations.

In section 21, it says that I will take all actions and measures within the authority of the Languages Commissioner. I have asked for a legal opinion on what the authority is of the Languages Commissioner with a view to ensuring recognition of the status and privilege of each official language, etc. In section 22, in carrying out the duties set out in subsection 1, the Languages Commissioner may conduct and carry out investigations either on his/her own initiative or pursuant to a complaint. If I perceive a problem, I can investigate it. The procedure is that I have been informing the department through a letter to the deputy minister.

Most recently, we have set up a situation whereby I inform the official languages unit as well as the Government Leader's office of any inquiries and whether I receive responses by a certain time and whether it is a sufficient reply. I do have the powers of investigation. Section 21, goes a little bit farther into that. There are a number of sections in there about doing investigations. Some major questions have arisen about what authority the Languages Commissioner has to get information.

Can I demand any document from a government office? That is something that we are still working on. I think, under the powers of this act, I do have fairly broad powers to obtain documents. When I have asked for them, sometimes the G.N.W.T. needed time to find out whether or not I should be given that information. This first year a lot of these major questions are being addressed. I hope that answers your question.

Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 385

The Chair Ludy Pudluk

Thank you. Mr. Arvaluk.

Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 385

James Arvaluk Aivilik

This is my last question, Mr. Chairman. It is related more to the enforcement of these. After the investigation, if it is found that there is a violation of the Official Languages Act, what is the method for enforcing it? The hotel in Iqaluit has a sign at the door about fire safety, in case of fire, how to get out, sound the alarm, etc., which is not translated. There is also a notice saying that no visitors are allowed in after 11:00 p.m. These are both only in English. There are also menus in public restaurants that are printed in English only. They should have Inuktitut as the official language in that area. What is the method of enforcing that?

Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 385

The Chair Ludy Pudluk

Thank you. Languages Commissioner.

Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 385

Harnum

First, I should clarify that this Official Languages Act in the N.W.T. only applies to the G.N.W.T., the Legislative Assembly and institutions of government such as boards, agencies or commissions that are set up by them. It does not apply to private businesses. I do not know if this Assembly wants to amend this legislation to have it apply to private businesses. At this point, I have no jurisdiction to go to a hotel or any other public place and say that their signs are not in the official languages. They have no obligations under this act. What I have done is contact a lot of private, non-government organizations and told them about the Official Languages Act and told them that, although they have no obligations, we would encourage them to provide whatever services are possible. If they needed any help in identifying people who could help them with that or talk about how they could go about providing that service, they were told that they were free to contact my office. I have had a number of private business that have come to me and said, "How do I go about providing safety announcements in aboriginal languages on airlines," or, "How do we provide tourist information in the seat pockets of airplanes? Is there any way we can have that translated so that people can read it?" A number of people from restaurants and stores have said to me, "Is there any way we can get some money to pay somebody to translate the menus or the signs on the shelves for the food?" What I have done is try to find these non-G.N.W.T. sources of funding so that people have some access to other sources of funding that they might be able to get to provide that sort of service. It does not apply to private businesses.

Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 385

The Chair Ludy Pudluk

Thank you. The next time you go to a restaurant, bring your own interpreter. Is that it for general comments and questions? Mr. Gargan.

Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 385

Samuel Gargan Deh Cho

Mr. Chairman, under section 23 of the Languages Commissioner's duties, it says that you have to do a report at the termination of each year. What is your

interpretation of "termination of each year?" Is that in fiscal or calendar years?

Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 385

The Chair Ludy Pudluk

Thank you. Languages Commissioner.

Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 385

Harnum

Because the act is not specific, it has given me some discretion. I have had legal counsel on this particular issue. It has given me some discretion in determining what that year is. Because my actual one year term falls in February, and it is also very close to the end of the fiscal year, I have decided to submit my report in the February/March session. It says, "in a reasonable time after the termination of each year." That would be the end of my working year, but it will also be close to the end of a fiscal year. I plan to table the report in the February/March session. That is my interpretation of it. I thought that was a reasonable method of reporting.

Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 385

The Chair Ludy Pudluk

Thank you. Mr. Gargan.

Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 385

Samuel Gargan Deh Cho

Section 20 says that for the purpose of soliciting the advice of representatives of each official language, the Languages Commissioner shall, not may, but shall meet not less than once per year with the representatives of such organizations as prescribed. I think we spotted it in section 7. You have not met with them. You have not created an advisory body for each official language. Have you created an advisory body yet? Have you met already, whether it is for this calendar year or for the coming fiscal year?

Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 385

The Chair Ludy Pudluk

Thank you. Languages Commissioner.

Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 385

Harnum

First, I should point out that under that section it says to meet with organizations as prescribed. This prescription means, usually, by regulation and the Languages Commissioner is not really responsible for making regulations to the act. I can certainly suggest to the government what I think should be in those regulations and they can heed or ignore my advice, whichever they choose to do. There are no regulations naming those organizations so what I have done is try to meet with as many organizations as possible. In my interim report, I did provide a list, on page three and four, of some of the organizations I have met with or had discussions with.

Aside from those organizations I have talked with personally, there are all of the organizations we have consulted through the telephone survey and the mail-in survey. We have a very long list of organizations with which we have consulted. I have not even had a chance to tally all of that information yet.

The other thing that I will point out in my interim report is that I have to research the formation of an advisory council for the Languages Commissioner. What I have been doing is discussing with as many individuals and organizations as possible how that advisory council should be shaped. Should there be, for example, one representative for each official language? If there is one for each official language, I understand that to be 11 representatives because, even though the act says eight official languages, we have within Inuktitut: Inuvialuktun, Inuvialuit and Innuinaqtun. They are included in the interpretation section and Slavey means North and South Slavey, so I would expect a separate representative for each of those languages.

If that is the way that this advisory council were to be formed, who would appoint those members to the advisory council? Should there be certain organizations that are asked to have a member sit on that advisory council? Should I hand pick them? Should I ask the Legislature to appoint them? There are a lot of questions that I wanted to address in this first year about how to go about establishing that advisory council.

When the Special Committee on Aboriginal Languages tabled its report in April, 1990, when this act was amended, there was some discussion in it about having an advisory council. It was recommended that the Languages Commissioner have an advisory council and I would very much welcome that. At this point, I am still in the process of trying to figure out exactly how I will go about setting that advisory council up with all of the questions that I just mentioned. I would be happy to have any advice, from anyone, on that. I have sought the advice of a lot of organizations that I am taking into consideration, whether or not there are certain organizations that would insist on having a representative on that advisory council.

The other big question is, will that advisory council take the place of my meeting with all of these other organizations as prescribed? Will that advisory council be the prescribed organization that I will meet with? Those are the kind of questions I have been discussing with a lot of people as I have been meeting with them to find out how people feel about the formulation of an advisory council. I did not want to rush into it because, as soon as I determine that, I assume that advisory council will stand for a certain period of time and I want to make sure that it is representative and that people have had some input into the formulation of it.

Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 386

The Chair Ludy Pudluk

Thank you. Member for Deh Cho.

Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 386

Samuel Gargan Deh Cho

You indicated that it is not your responsibility to draft regulations. Who is doing those regulations then?

Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 386

The Chair Ludy Pudluk

The Languages Commissioner.

Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 386

Harnum

I have had a number of meetings on that particular issue and it is something that I discussed at length with the legal counsel. My original understanding, when I started this job, was that it was the Minister of Culture and Communications who was responsible for the Official Languages Act. I was wrong on that, apparently. There is a section in here referring to the Minister, it does not say which Minister, having the power of signing agreements such as the Secretary of State Agreement for the purposes of carrying out this act. What I have been advised is that it is the government's responsibility to come up with regulations.

Now that the official languages section is within the Government Leader's office, my understanding is it has some responsibility for drafting those regulations and that would have to be done in consultation with the departments and with the Department of Justice. However, I also have some advise that it would be appropriate for me to draft some regulations to give to the government. I have been consulting with a lot of people about what should be in those regulations. I have not put anything on paper yet. I am still waiting to find out whether anything is actually going on within the official languages section. That was just recently reorganized and I know that they are working on a lot of things.

I am not sure that I can answer the question on where that unit is with the preparation of regulations, but it is an issue that I have brought to their attention a number of times this year because I think it is very important. Section 14(2) comes into effect in a couple of weeks, at the end of December. I do not know if you have the act in front of you but I will just read section 14(2). It says, "any member of the public in the territories has the right to communicate with and to receive available services from any regional, area or community office of an institution of the Legislative Assembly or the Government of the Northwest Territories in an official language other than English or French, spoken in that region or community where there is a significant demand for communications with and services from that office in any such language; or, due to the nature of the office it is reasonable that communications with and services from that office be available in such language."

There are a number of phrases in there that require clarification. What is a significant demand? Does that mean that you have a certain percentage of the population in that community that never asks, but might ask for a service? Does it mean that the people in that office have been keeping track of how many times they have been asked for that service and they can say, we have documented ten instances this month where we have been asked for that service, therefore, we have to provide it.

There are no guidelines and I, myself, have actually been asked by a number of government departments for guidelines on that. The people in the community offices are wondering, do we have to provide this service or not? When we say we have to provide that service, what does that mean? What exactly do we have to provide to people, all of the material in our office, only an interpreter or what? So there are a number of clauses in there.

The other one is, due to the nature of the office, it is reasonable that communications with and services from that office be available. What is the nature of an office? Does it mean that they have so many documented contacts with the public in a certain period of time? Those are the kinds of things that I think could be clarified by regulation. Under the federal Official Languages Act, they just went through a very lengthy process in developing regulations on exactly these things. What is significant demand and what is the nature of the office? I gathered those regulations and made them available to the official languages section so they could have a look at it to see what sort of issues have to be addressed and what kind of considerations they might make in trying to draft those regulations. As far as I know, by December 31, there will not be any regulations in place for defining the terms in that section. I have had a number of meetings and urged the government to do that. It is going to be something that will have to be done very shortly.

Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 386

The Chair Ludy Pudluk

Thank you. Mr. Gargan.

Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 386

Samuel Gargan Deh Cho

Mr. Chairman, I have a problem with the relationship between the Languages Commissioner and this House. The act states that you she is accountable to this

House. The Speaker is representative of this House. We cannot ask the Speaker questions. Naturally, the Government Leader feels that it is inappropriate for her to provide that information. Every time we have a question we must ask her to appear in this House to address whatever the questions are. Everyone has someone to report to. To whom does the Languages Commissioner report?

Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 387

The Chair Ludy Pudluk

Thank you, Mr. Gargan. Ms. Harnum.

Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 387

Harnum

I report to all the Members of this Legislature at any time. Any one of the Members can contact me directly and ask questions. They do not have to wait until the House is sitting to raise questions. I was asked for an interim report earlier than this by one of the Members, and I provided it to him. Other Members have contacted me and brought some of their constituents to me and said, "Here, deal with this problem." I welcome that sort of relationship. I want to develop that relationship. I report to each Member. I report collectively to the Members through the Speaker just as a simple reporting relationship. I did offer to do a quarterly report, just like this interim report, to give it to the Members so they had some idea of the activities of the office. I was told that, under the act, I report once a year in an annual report. I do not mind reporting more than that. Within the act it says to report once a year. I volunteered to do this interim report because I feel there are a lot of questions, and there is a lot that people want to know about. Any one of the Members can contact me at any time.

As far as vacation or other leave, I have to get approval through the Speaker's office. That is the only reporting relationship that we have. Other than that, I am accountable to the Assembly when it sits and to the individual Members if they want to ask me questions.

I did ask this of the federal Commissioner of Official Languages in Ottawa. When I was asked to appear here, I asked him whether or not it was appropriate for me to appear before the House. I wanted to make sure that I was not doing anything contrary to the existing legislation. He advised that it is very unusual. Normally, they have a Standing Committee on Official Languages. The Commissioner is called to report to that committee. I would like to make that as a recommendation to the House. It will be in my annual report that there be a committee that I report to on a regular basis and that I receive advice from.

I have felt isolated. I do what I think is the right thing to do, but I need as much advice as possible from the Members. This is your piece of legislation, and I am there to assist you in making sure that the government carries it out. I am more than open to having any kind of dialogue with Members during the year at any time. That is my reporting relationship. It is meant to be at arm's length from the government so I do not report to a government Minister. I have to investigate those departments. I even have to investigate things going on in the Legislative Assembly. You have had letters from me asking about things. I have to have that arm's length relationship that is set up in the legislation. I do report to each Member at the same time.

Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 387

The Chair Ludy Pudluk

Thank you. General comments, Mr. Gargan.

Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 387

Samuel Gargan Deh Cho

In your opening statement, you said that you have already over expended your money with regard to support staff. Can you outline the channels that have been established to ensure that you carry out your duties in the most efficient, effective and economical way? Who evaluates you to see if the Legislative Assembly is getting value for its dollars?

Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 387

The Chair Ludy Pudluk

Thank you. Ms. Harnum.

Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 387

Harnum

I would say that both my annual report to the Legislature and any other interim reports or interim inquiries that are made of me is the evaluation process that is set up.

I receive financial administration assistance from the Legislative Assembly. It does the paperwork for our budget. I make the decisions and they go through the Assembly. They will tell me if I can do that. If there happens to be something that I want to accomplish and it is not possible, they will say that I cannot do it that way and suggest another way. I do have that kind of fiscal management applied.

Other than that, I do have the responsibility of deciding whether or not the money is being spent the way it should be. It is a big responsibility. There are a lot of choices I have to make all the time. I have overspent on the casual budget. I was given a quarter of a person year. For a start up year, it was unreasonable to try to accomplish things like gathering base line information. We had nothing to work with. It was an empty office with no information. I could not just write to a department and say, "Send me that." I needed to gather information. That is why we overspent on the casual budget.

I sat down with Myles Moreside many times and went through the budget to see what was left in each area. We decided what money could be transferred from one task to another. Whenever I have made those decisions, I did them with financial guidance to make sure I had not done anything contrary to the Financial Management Administration Act. I followed the guidelines. As far as the actual expenditures and whether this government feels that it is getting the best bang for their buck, it is for the government to decide when it gets my annual report or any interim reports. I would welcome advice on that any time.

Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 387

The Chair Ludy Pudluk

Thank you. Are there any general comments? Mr. Gargan.

Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 387

Samuel Gargan Deh Cho

Mr. Chairman, the Languages Commissioner has already said that where it is reasonable, that language should be used. In her opening statement she introduced her staff. I do not see any staff there that speak the Dogrib language, nor the South Slavey, nor the Chipewyan language. Those are the people who are being affected by the Languages Commissioner's office. Why did she choose to do the opposite of her mandate with regard to reasonable use of language in this case?

Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 387

The Chair Ludy Pudluk

Thank you, Mr. Gargan. Languages Commissioner.

Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 387

Harnum

I would not say that I have gone contrary to what I should be doing. I have made a point of trying to get staff in the office who do speak an official language. We have a fair representation of aboriginal languages in the office. I do

not have enough positions to have one person who speaks each language. We have had a number of short-term casual employees which means that I can constantly change the languages that are available in the office. It has been a concern for me that I am Commissioner of Languages and there is no way that I can have staff in that office that speak every language. I have problems with the message on my answering machine because it is in English and it has a few other languages thrown in as hello and thank you. I have to deal with those sorts of things to. I have limited resources to hire staff. It is not that I have avoided any language group, I am trying to have as many different speakers of different languages in the office as possible. We have had North Slavey, French, Innuinaqtun and Inuktitut. We have had some aboriginal people in the office who were of Chipewyan and Cree background but did not speak their language because they were young people who lost their language. I have made an effort to have staff in the office that speak various languages. If it appears that I have been trying to avoid an particular language, I think that is a misunderstanding because I have not tried to do that at all. The other thing is that I do have a lot of people working in the communities doing these surveys in all different languages. I have made use of the people in the communities to do the surveys for me, and we are using people who speak all those different languages.

Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 388

The Chair Ludy Pudluk

Thank you. General comments. Mr. Gargan.

Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 388

Samuel Gargan Deh Cho

One other clarification, with regard to travel. The Member for Thebacha asked a question on that, but I do not know if you were able to respond to it. With regard to the signing of the Nunavut accord in Iqaluit, did you travel to that and for what reason? Did you have a language complaint about the accord itself?

Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 388

The Chair Ludy Pudluk

Thank you, Mr. Gargan. Ms. Harnum.

Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 388

Harnum

I am sorry, can I ask you to repeat the last part of your question, I did not hear it.

Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 388

The Chair Ludy Pudluk

Mr. Gargan, rephrase your question, or repeat it.

Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 388

Samuel Gargan Deh Cho

Did you have a language complaint about the Nunavut Accord? Was that the reason why you travelled there?

Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 388

The Chair Ludy Pudluk

Thank you. Languages Commissioner.

Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 388

Harnum

No, I did not have a complaint about that accord. I have met a number of times with T.F.N. and a number of people in that area about the use of official languages in Nunavut. I have talked to them a number of times and that was one of the particular issues that I was dealing with at that particular time. I am also doing community consultations and I have been to a number of communities to gather information. I was there not only because of that signing, I had other meetings that I did during that time.

I was also on my way to Rankin Inlet because I met with the Keewatin Regional Council, which was meeting immediately after that. I went there to make them aware of the fact that there is a Languages Commissioner and an Official Languages Act.

At this moment, I am supposed to be in Hay River meeting with the D.C.I. Board but I have had to cancel that. I am trying to go where there are meetings going on, where there are representatives from a number of different communities and where they can carry the information back to the communities that there is a Languages Commissioner and that there is an Official Languages Act and what it is all about. That is the purpose of those community visits.

Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 388

The Chair Ludy Pudluk

Mr. Gargan.

Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 388

Samuel Gargan Deh Cho

So it is on the basis of requests of those organizations that you are travelling.

Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 388

The Chair Ludy Pudluk

Thank you. Ms. Harnum.

Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 388

Harnum

Sometimes it is. There is also a provision in the act for me to conduct my own investigations if there are issues that I feel are of importance and need to be looked into.

I have a number of things that I have been looking into in that area and I have met with people there from different organizations and different groups a couple of times, in the process of dealing with those. I would call those small investigations, not full-fledged investigations. At this point I am considering myself to be doing one of those, but I have a number of issues that I am dealing with in the eastern Arctic communities. If I can go to a place where there are representatives from a number of communities like a regional council or if the T.F.N. Board happens to be there and I need to talk to those people then I will go there. I was trying to go to the D.C.I. Board meeting today. I try to get to those meetings whenever I can.

Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 388

The Chair Ludy Pudluk

Thank you. Member for Deh Cho.

Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 388

Samuel Gargan Deh Cho

Mr. Chairman, the Languages Commissioner also said that she has had 250 complaints. There are 261 working days in a year. At that rate, by the time the year end comes up you would have had to deal with at least on and a half complaints per day. You did say that you went to Iqaluit to investigate some small complaints. I do not know whether or not the justification is there for you to look at that type of travel for a small complaint. I would like to know, how are you addressing the rest of the complaints? It is a lot; you would have to travel every day for 250 days of the year if that is the case and still maintain this interim report that you have done which is very long. I am interested in finding out how you justify your travel.

Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 388

The Chair Ludy Pudluk

Thank you. Ms. Harnum.

Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 388

Harnum

I said 250 complaints and or inquiries. A lot of them are inquiries for information, such as, "What does this section of the Official Languages Act mean," or, "Has this Official Languages Act been translated into my language? I want a copy of it, can I get one?" When I am saying complaints and inquiries, they are not all complaints and they do not all require investigations.

When somebody does complain and I have to do some searching around or meeting with people I try, if possible, to meet with them in person. I also try to gather a few of those, so if I am going to one place I can deal with a few of them all at once. There are some days when I get three, four or five people calling complaining about things. The other thing that happens is that I do try to make myself accessible instead of staying in the office. When I am out I notice things myself that need to be dealt with, but people often approach me in the airport, on the planes or in the restaurants. A lot of people are starting to know that there is a Languages Commissioner and they come to me on a regular basis and talk to me about things and say, why this, or, why that, or, what does the act say? I have been trying to make myself accessible.

Sometimes, the complaints that I am talking about are not from somebody phoning me, but from my going out to the communities and, when I am there, they will talk about something which otherwise might not have been brought to my attention.

Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 389

The Chair Ludy Pudluk

Thank you. Mr. Gargan.

Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 389

Samuel Gargan Deh Cho

There are a lot of flaws with regard to this Official Languages Act. Do we expect any provisions to this act soon?

Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 389

The Chair Ludy Pudluk

Thank you. Languages Commissioner.

Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 389

Harnum

One of the things that I have spent considerable time on this year, as I mentioned, was with legal counsel, trying to analyze some of the sections of the act as to what they mean and whether there are any legal precedents in the courts to help us analyze how some of these sections might be interpreted if a person went to court to get an opinion. I have questions about the French translation as opposed to the English version there are some discrepancies there which I have some questions about.

Those things I intend to bring to the attention of the House in my annual report. There will be a section on the areas where I think the act is weak. These are the areas where I think that, perhaps, Members want to accomplish more than this act will allow them to and the limitations of what this legislation says. I spent, as I have said, a fair amount of time this year with legal counsel going through what the act means and what it is going to mean if somebody wants to go to court to say the act was violated, I was denied a right. I intend to provide that information in my annual report. It is something that is going to take some time to write up because I have dealt with a lot of issues on the act.

Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 389

The Chair Ludy Pudluk

Thank you. Are there any other questions? Mr. Antoine.

Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 389

Jim Antoine Nahendeh

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I raised a question in the House a little while back about some things I have been hearing in my constituency. You stated that you work for all the M.L.A.s. As M.L.A.s, what we are doing here is working for people in the communities, and the Languages Commissioner's job is to be the official person there responsible for all the official languages in the north; the east, as well as the west.

In the west, we have numerous languages and dialects. We have different nations right down the Mackenzie Valley and we have different dialects which are distinct from each other in a lot of cases. I feel that, once again, we have been ignored in the valley. What you are saying to Sam here is, you decide on your own sometimes to do investigations and you go on your own. However, when I first talked to you, after I questioned you, you said that you travel in communities when you are invited and that, once you get into the communities, you find out that there are a lot of concerns about languages.

My concern is that you have not chosen to travel into any of the Dene communities. You have travelled quite extensively in the east. I would like you to turn your attention to the west also and not ignore us any more. My main concern was a particular case that was brought to my attention but, in reading your report and seeing what you have done up to date and talking to you in the hall about being invited and so forth, I feel rather annoyed that you are saying different things to different people.

However, right now, I want to turn to my main concern, which has to do with the standardization of writing for Dene languages. I understand that there was a joint effort between the Department of Culture and Communications and the Department of Education some time back, when the report was presented to the Minister of Culture and Communications of the day. I understand, also, that the report was presented to him on April, 1990 and the Minister of the day stated that he accepted the report.

The concern here is from people who were involved in this standardization project; these were people from the five Dene regions along with a linguist, I understand, who made a number of recommendations and one of the main recommendations is where the problem is. That recommendation is that the writing of the Dene language should be standardized. I have been hearing that this recommendation is not being followed.

The concern is that it is causing problems with people who are trying to use the written form of Dene languages. I have been told that the Department of Education has its own language specialist. Even though Culture and Communications is now included in Education, Culture and Communications had its own linguist as well. Arctic College has teachers in the translation and interpretation course who are teaching their own variations of writing. I do not really know about the legal interpretation course. They may have used some of their own.

Also, there are individuals who are researching some Dene languages in my area, writing Bibles and dictionaries and so forth, who are using their own forms of writing. There is a mixed bag of people who are trying to achieve the same thing in a different way. There is a lot of confusion. The people in the communities and regions who are trying to use these languages are finding some problems because there are different ways of writing the same words and same sentences. I am just relaying to the House and to you the concerns which have been expressed to me. I am also concerned because, once again, the Dene are being ignored. This should not happen. A recommendation was made in 1990, it is clear and the Minister of the day accepted it. Why has it taken this long to be achieved? There are people in the field who want to see these changes. I want to see these changes too. I do not know if it is in your mandate to deal with these kinds of issues. If it is, how can we correct this problem? Thank you.

Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 390

The Chair Ludy Pudluk

Languages Commissioner.

Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 390

Harnum

To the first part of your question, I have no intention of ignoring the Dene communities. I have done quite a bit of work in those communities. Even though I have not visited all of them, I have visited some of them. There are 65 communities in the territories. I have travelled to lots of different communities and some of them have been Dene communities. I have not ignored them. The other thing that we have been doing is all of the telephone surveys. Surveyors are actually doing surveys in the communities for my office. If I have not been there, we have gathered information from every single community by doing those surveys. We are not ignoring them in any way. Those surveys are still going on right now.

I have dealt with a lot of issues on my own, identifying things that needed to be dealt with and writing letters to try to resolve some issues, dealing with Dene languages as well as Inuktitut and French. If there is any appearance that I am ignoring the Dene communities, I certainly I do not feel as if I have been, and I do not have any intention of doing that. I still have a few months left in this particular year and I intend to do more travelling and concentrate more in the western Arctic because it has certainly been pointed out to me that I still have lots of communities in this region to visit.

As for the last part of the question about the standardization of the writing systems, first I should say that when you addressed the question to me the other day, or last week, I drafted a reply immediately but there was some confusion about who should give the reply. It was one of those formalities that still had not been resolved. It was the first time that a question had been addressed to the Languages Commissioner so we were dealing with the question of whether to give this reply in the ordinary manner through the Government Leader or not.

The next day when the motion was made by Mr. Gargan to come to this House, it was suggested that I might as well wait and answer the question while I am here rather than doing a written reply. That would then give us time to resolve the issue about how questions should be directed to me and how they should be responded to. It is the same with the question that Mrs. Marie-Jewell addressed to me; I have all the details here and I am in the process of drafting a written reply. I informed her that if I was not to appear in this session, I would provide her with the written response before the end of this session. If I was going to appear then, perhaps, she could address those questions while I am here. The one reason why I did not respond immediately to those things was simply because of that idea of the formality, in other words, what is the proper procedure for putting questions to me and my replying?

The whole area of the standardization of writing systems is a very difficult one and people have been dealing with it for a long time. With the Inuit language, for example, they did a standardized writing system in 1976 and it is still not entirely accepted. There are still people who use some of the older symbols or they do not use the new finals, and that sort of thing. Even though it was endorsed by the Inuit Cultural Institute for people to use, there are still some discrepancies. For example, Northern Quebec chose to make some differences and in the Delta they chose to make some changes to the Roman writing system as well.

With the Dene languages I am very much aware of the process that went on for the standardization. I know a lot of those people and I have worked with them quite a bit. I have taught Dene literacy myself and I am aware of some of the changes that were proposed. I have not even learned all the new symbols that were proposed. I did write to the government to ask whether or not it was ever formally adopted by the Assembly; whether there was a motion to say that this House formally adopts and sanctions the use of the new standardized writing system from the Dene Standardization Committee. To my knowledge, that has not been done. Although the Minister says that he accepted it at that point, I do not know if this House has ever said, "we want that new standardized writing system to be used." Even if that were to happen, we would have to look at what measures would have to be in place to make people use it. It requires teaching and I know that there is some teaching going on in the communities to get people to know about that new writing system.

There is some reticence, too, because a lot of people just became literate in Dene languages and Roman orthography within the last five or ten years, and already they are being asked to change their spelling. That would be like us being asked to change the way that we spell a lot of words in English. Should we be told to switch the American spelling of night, n-i-t-e, and so on. It is very difficult to get a whole group of people who use a language to agree to adopt a change and having it implemented right away by everybody. I realize that there are problems in that area and I am certainly willing to try to assist with whatever can be done to help groups to come to an agreement, not only on the writing system but also on the use of terminology. That is another big area in which people are having a very difficult time coming up with standard translations for a lot of words and there is no mechanism for standardizing that either. I do not know if this Assembly is the right place for a motion or whether there is some other way but it would be a great benefit to the users of native languages, I think, to have one organization designated as the standardizing body for terminology or for writing.

The Dene Standardization Committee dealt with the writing system but a lot of people in the communities do not recognize that, asking questions like, "who gave them the right to change the way I write?" There is some opposition to change. I certainly support the work that was done and I will do what I can in your communities to try to help people accept the new writing system and the standard writing system. I would be glad to visit the communities and talk to them about it.

Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 390

The Chair Ludy Pudluk

Thank you. Mr. Antoine.

Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 390

Jim Antoine Nahendeh

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. The specific area that I am interested in is the standardization of written Dene languages. That is the concern. I am not particularly interested in the standardization of terminology or anything like that but the main starting point would be the writing form of the Dene languages. I think recommendations were made by people from five different regions and the person representing my region is looked upon as the expert in our language from our area. The recommendation there is good, we support it.

This body is the one that has the funding for the official languages, nobody else has. I think this is the place to do it. I think most of the people with whom I have been working on the languages have been in government departments, Education, Culture and Communications and Arctic College. It is not people in the communities who are developing some of the language and writing and getting proficient at it. The way of writing the Dene languages has been taught by these different government departments, so I suppose the suggestion there is that this is a good place to start to standardize the Dene writing system. That is what I was getting at. I understand your answer but I was wondering, how do you go about it? Do we go through the government or do we go through you? Thank you.

Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 391

The Chair Ludy Pudluk

Thank you. Languages Commissioner.

Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 391

Harnum

Under this legislation I have no rights or powers to force the government to do anything. The powers that are given to me in this legislation are to make recommendations. What I do is take the information that comes to me from the communities and make sure that the government is aware of it. If there are concerns in the communities then I would like to know about them. I would like to be able to draw that from a number of different sources so that I can say it is not just this one person or just this one community that wants it. I am able to make the government aware of the fact that this is an issue that is important to a lot of people so that they do pay attention to it. As far as the teaching is concerned, I did write a letter to the department asking what efforts were being made at teaching those new writing systems. You did mention Arctic College, Justice, Education and Culture and Communications. I know most of the staff that work in those offices and I have talked to them over the last few years and try to keep in touch with most of them. I know that they are all trying to use the same system but outside of the government, how do you tell somebody who works with a particular church, or who comes as a contractor for the government, you have to use this particular writing system. I know that is one of the areas in which there is some difference between what the churches are doing when they are reading and writing in the Dene languages and what the government is doing. I do not know what the answer is. Is there some way of forcing people to use a particular writing system?

Perhaps, as I said, this Assembly could make a motion to say that all contractors who work for the government shall be using the standard orthographies and all government departments must use it and must check. For example, I have had a number of complaints that signs are spelled incorrectly when they go out to the communities. When they finally do get them in a native language, there is a complaint that they are not spelled properly. Maybe there should be a procedure in the government for having all of those signs or publications checked to make sure that they are done in the standard that is accepted by the government.

Whether it is writing systems, terminology or whatever, the whole problem lies with who has the authority to force people to follow that particular writing system. That has kind of been a vacuum. There is no body, other than this Legislature I suppose, saying, "this is our directive to the government. Make sure that all our departments and institutions follow that." Outside of that, I do not know if there is another mechanism that you can use to make every individual conform.

Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 391

The Chair Ludy Pudluk

Thank you. Mr. Antoine.

Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 391

Jim Antoine Nahendeh

What I was concerned about was this one particular issue but we seem to be getting into your jurisdiction, your process and your terms of reference. You do not seem to have a good grasp of how things work yet. That is what my impression is right now with my specific questions and your answers. Perhaps my question was directed to the right place in the first time. It seems to me when I asked the Government Leader about this language issue, I was directed to deal with you but you say you do not have the authority or the power to deal with it, you are just there to make recommendations. I just do not feel comfortable.

The Dene language is very important and this Legislative Assembly made it an official language, but I cannot seem to get a good grasp at it. I would like to see this particular thing happen but you are telling me you do not have the power. The government is telling me that we have to deal with you. It is very vague and I cannot really grasp it and I do not know where to go. Perhaps it is lost in the process. I would like this particular concern of mine dealt with right away and the people who have expressed this to me have said that time and money have been expended by the Legislative Assembly in the past to come up with recommendations, the Minister has accepted the report, including the recommendations that are included in the report, and one of them specifically deals with this particular standardization of writing the Dene language.

Every day, as we sit, people have been taught in different ways and the specialists in our area are sending alarm systems out and asking me, can you raise this? I raised it in the House and I suppose that is one of the reasons why you are here. What I would like to see is this particular concern of mine from my particular constituents dealt with. I do not know how you do that, but I want it to be dealt with. Thank you.

Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 391

The Chair Ludy Pudluk

Thank you. Languages Commissioner.

Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 391

Harnum

The way that I can see to deal with it, myself, is to meet with the people who are concerned about it and find out what their concerns are. I have to read the Dene standardization reports. I have them from a couple of years ago when they were done, but I have not looked at them since then. I am aware of them and all the work that was done. I worked along with a few of the people there working out some of the problems. What I can do is say, yes, I would be happy to meet with those people and find out what the problem is and make a recommendation to the government that certain things be done. You have to realize that the government departments have the responsibility of delivering services and programs. I do not have that responsibility.

Mine is to monitor those services and programs and make sure that the government is aware if there are any failings or any problems. I am like a channel for that information. The way this act exists and the way it was passed in this House does not give me authority to force the government to do anything. That is what I have to live with, too. There are lots of things that I would like to say but I cannot. It gives me investigative powers and that sort of thing, but it does not give me any authority to force the government to do anything.

My role is to gather that information, make those recommendations and make them strongly by tabling a report in this House and saying this is a major issue, and making it a public document so that people say, yes, that is an issue and we support it. That is the political process. If I put something in a report and table it in the House then it is up to the Members of the House to decide how much effort they want to put into it, or up to the public how much effort they want to put in to try to force the government to do what is recommended.

I just have to explain that I am limited by this legislation. It gives me some powers, but some limitations as well. I will do everything I can to try to deal with people's concerns and make the recommendations that they feel need to be made.

Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 392

The Chair Ludy Pudluk

Thank you. Mr. Antoine.

Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 392

Jim Antoine Nahendeh

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I think this is my last comment. You are telling me that you will gather information on these concerns, you will make recommendations to the government and you would like to talk to the people who were involved in that. In that case, I would suggest that you meet with the group called the Dene Standardization Committee, members of the five regions, plus the linguists, if possible, and pick up from where they have left off, rather than going all the way back to the beginning to have something to work with. They did put a lot of time and energy into making a number of recommendations and the government Minister of the day had accepted that report. Their main concern is that there is a definite need to have standardization in the writing of the Dene language. Rather than going right back to the investigation, I would like to suggest that this is the place to start. Thank you.

Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 392

The Chair Ludy Pudluk

Thank you. Languages Commissioner.

Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 392

Harnum

I am aware that under the Canada/N.W.T. Agreement on Aboriginal Languages there is funding for the Dene Standardization Committee under the orthography section in there, so I will get in touch with them and see whether they have any meetings planned. To my knowledge, they have not had any meetings recently. Yes, they are all over the place. They always were, though. They were always in many different areas but they were coming together on a regular basis during the process of developing the standard orthography. I do not think that they have met recently but I will request a meeting with them.

That is going to require funding for them all to come together as well. That is the kind of thing I do not have in my budget. I do not have the money to pay for bringing large groups in to meet with them. I would have to do that on a regular basis. I will look to see if there is funding under the agreement for me to meet with them.

I would like to ask the Member a question. Are you suggesting that I do this instead of coming to your constituency to talk about that issue with the individuals? I am willing to do both if that is still the request of the Member.

Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 392

The Chair Ludy Pudluk

Thank you. Mr. Antoine.

Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 392

Jim Antoine Nahendeh

I would like you to do both. Thank you.

Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 392

The Chair Ludy Pudluk

Thank you. Are there any general comments or questions? Member for Thebacha.

Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 392

Jeannie Marie-Jewell Thebacha

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I did ask a number of questions under written questions in the House. I would like to propose them to the Languages Commissioner since I did receive the response from the Government Leader that it would be inappropriate for her office to provide the requested information. I will list all the questions. She may have a copy of them.

She commented on the status of the annual report and I would like to know its status.

I would like a summary of the destination, purpose, duration and cost of all duty travel undertaken by the Languages Commissioner since her appointment; a summary of the destination, purpose, duration and cost of all duty travel undertaken by staff or other officials in the office of the Languages Commissioner since the appointment of the Languages Commissioner.

I also ask for a listing of prescribed organizations referred to in subsection 23 of the Official Languages Act; the dates, duration and location of meetings held between the representatives of the prescribed organization and the Languages Commissioner as required by subsection 23 of the Official Languages Act.

I ask for a listing of the type of service, contractor, duration and amount of all services contracted by the office of the Languages Commissioner and a statement indicating the number of reports provided to the Government Leader, deputy ministers or other administrative heads of institutions by the Languages Commissioner pursuant to subsection 22.1 of the Official Languages Act.

Mr. Chairman, if I may continue to comment on this, I did want to be very candid and upfront on what has been some of the comments. The Languages Commissioner may have surmised from the questions asked about the travel and accountability that some Members have concerns with respect to the Languages Commissioner consistently travelling with a Member of the House. This raises issues about her accountability given the potential for conflict of interest. Would the Languages Commissioner care to comment on the perception held by some Members, particularly since the Languages Commissioner indicated earlier that she reports to each Member of this House? Thank you.

Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 392

The Chair Ludy Pudluk

Thank you. Languages Commissioner.

Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 392

Harnum

I thought that the issue of conflict of interest that is underlying that whole question, had been addressed earlier just after I was appointed. As far as I was informed there was no conflict. The idea that I travel consistently with a

Member of the House is not correct. We have made a couple of trips together, but I have also made a lot of trips on my own and so has he. There are times when we both happen to be going to the same place to meet at the same meeting about totally different business. We do not discuss the kind of business that we are doing when we go on those trips. I do my own business and he does his own. There are times when we have travelled together where it has not been work, it has been on a holiday. People have perceived that we are travelling together for business, but it has not been. I can understand that people have questions about that.

As far as I understood, the issue of conflict had been addressed. I was informed that there was no conflict. Whether it is appropriate for us to ever travel together is another issue that needs to be addressed. Perhaps I need advice on that. I would be open to advice from the Members. If it is perceived to be a problem, then we will have to do something about it. There are times when we are going to travel together when it is not business, and people will see us. I thought that was one of the issues that had been dealt with. Perhaps there are still outstanding questions on it.

I have all the information that the Member has asked for. It just has not been compiled into a written response. If you want, I can give you most of that information orally right now. It will probably take ten or 15 minutes to go through all of it, if you want all of those expenditures, trips, times and dates, who I met with, the casual expenditures, contract expenditures, etc. I do have all of that information here.

Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 393

The Chair Ludy Pudluk

Thank you. Member for Thebacha.

Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 393

Jeannie Marie-Jewell Thebacha

Mr. Chairman, I would appreciate that information to be granted to us. It would also be for the record. Thank you.

Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 393

The Chair Ludy Pudluk

Thank you. Languages Commissioner.

Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 393

Harnum

I have already reported that I will be tabling the annual report in the February/March session. It has to be translated. I have to decide whether I am going to do it in 11 different versions. It will be ready in the February/March session. I am not sure exactly when, but it will be done. That will be the termination of a year.

The next question is the duty travel destination, purpose, duration and cost of all duty travel. I have a summary. Before I started in the office, I was on leave without pay for a week or two in between my last job and this one. I asked if I could travel to the Iqaluit Nunavut Leaders' Summit to meet with some of the leaders there and to become more aware of the issues that they were dealing with. I had not been in touch with a lot of those organizations for a long time. I went to the Nunavut Leaders' Summit and met with a lot of individuals there about the Languages Commissioner and official languages in Nunavut. Those were the ongoing issues that I mentioned earlier. The total cost of that was $1,852.

From February 25 to 27, I travelled to Inuvik and Fort McPherson for $1,307. That was to meet with the Gwich'in and Inuvialuktun language instructors and a number of political leaders in that area to deal with the language programs in the schools and any other language services in that area.

From March 16 to 20, I took leave without pay because I was very tired after leaving my other job and starting this one right away. I took just one week off in between, and I realized then that I needed a break. I took four or five days off when the Arctic Winter Games were on. I went to Whitehorse. There were no charges for that at all. It was a holiday, although some people did see me there. However, although I was on leave without pay and not at government expense, I did have a number of meetings with the Yukon Language Services and spent quite a bit of time gathering information and talking about the situation there.

On April 15 I travelled to Hay River to meet with D.C.I. and the advisory board for the treatment centre. They were trying to develop a language and culture component to be included in the new treatment centre and they asked me to attend to discuss some ideas. The cost of that trip was $314.80.

The trips to the east are so much more expensive just because of the airfare.

On April 21 I went to Edmonton to visit the office of the Commissioner of Official Languages for the N.W.T. They have an office there that covers Alberta, B.C., the N.W.T. and the Yukon and I wanted to meet with them to gather information from them about the federal Official Languages Act, how the regulations had been developed for their act and other issues like that. That cost was $760.

From May 20 to 24, I returned to Whitehorse. There was a circumpolar language development conference that I was invited to and it was attended by people from all across Canada, the United States, Greenland and Alaska with some people representing the Navajo language and the Saami language and other groups. I wanted to gather information from them on language development initiatives in their areas. The total cost was $1,608.

From June 10 to the 15, I went to Pond Inlet and Iqaluit. The purpose was community consultations and part of that time was also holidays so that was mixed. The total cost was $863. I paid most of the expenses myself. I just charged a one way ticket and that is all, the rest I paid for myself.

On June 22 I went again to Hay River to go to the government office there and look at services that were available and the needs. Also, I met with legal counsel over there. We discussed a number of issues under the act. That was $348.

From July 20 to the 24, I went to Inuvik and Tuktoyaktuk. Again, it was part of the investigation that I was doing in that area. I did a lot of interviews with people about the language programs and met with a lot people. It was during the I.C.C. Conference, so I met with a lot of people who were also at that conference from different jurisdictions. The total cost was $1,236.

From July 29 and 30, I went to Rankin Inlet to meet with the Inuit Cultural Institute Board. That was $1,150.

From August 7 to 12, I went to Ottawa to meet with the Commissioner of Official Languages for Canada, Victor Goldblume, and all of his staff. He made his whole department available to me so that I could meet with them about the issues that I was dealing with such as policy development, how to handle complaints and inquiries, how to keep records and that sort of thing. I also wanted to know how the federal Official Languages Act applies in the Northwest Territories. I spent a very productive week with them. They gave me a lot of information and they have been very supportive, too, of our initiative. The total cost was $2,226.

From August 17 to 21, I went to Iqaluit and Pangnirtung. Again, this was for community consultations. It was the time when we were just starting to do some of the community surveys and I was identifying people to do the surveys and meeting with other organizations. I was gathering information about a lot of organizations. I do not know whether I can talk about all the organizations that I have met with because some of them are the result of complaints. I have met with a lot of organizations in these different communities so I am not sure, in some cases, whether I can say exactly with whom I met or the purpose. The cost there was $2,322.

From October 13 to 17, I went to Cambridge Bay, again, for community consultations. We were doing surveys, meeting with elders' groups. I met with the K.I.A. Board and again, did a survey of the government offices to see what offices and what services were available.

From November 11 to 13, I was in Rankin Inlet and Iqaluit doing community consultations and following up on some complaints and issues. I met with the K.R.C. in Rankin Inlet.

There have only been two trips made by staff. One was by Gwen Ohokak when we went to Cambridge Bay. She served as my interpreter there and did some surveys in the community herself because she speaks Inuvialuktun. That was $1,382. Janice Mathewsie went to Cape Dorset to do some surveys there and to show the other people there how to do some of the surveys. That was $773.

That is the total of the travel and the trips that I have made. I still have a couple of months left in this year and, I realize that I have made more trips probably to the east and the three regions, Kitikmeot, Keewatin and Baffin, than I have to other regions, and I have not been to Sahtu. There is another trip that I made in which we just drove. That was to Rae. I did not include that one but that was for the opening of the cultural centre. I will be concentrating more on the western Arctic and some of the communities around here in the next couple of months. Today, as I said, I was supposed to be meeting with the D.C.I. Board in Hay River and also with the treatment centre advisory council again, but I had to cancel.

The next question is a list of the prescribed organizations referred to in subsection 23. As I mentioned earlier, there is no prescribed list so what I have done is provide in my interim report a list of the organizations within which I have already met. I do not know if there is any purpose in reading that list right now. It is in the interim report that the Members have. Again, if there are to be prescribed organizations it probably means prescribed by regulation and it is a matter of deciding who is responsible...

Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 394

The Chair Ludy Pudluk

Excuse me, Madame Languages Commissioner, the hour is 6:00 p.m.. I have to rise and report progress. I would like to thank Betty Harnum, Languages Commissioner, who appeared before the committee. We will probably continue it tomorrow. Thank you.

Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 394

The Speaker Michael Ballantyne

Item 19, Report of Committee of the Whole, Mr. Chairman.

Item 19: Report Of Committee Of The Whole
Item 19: Report Of Committee Of The Whole

Page 394

The Chair Ludy Pudluk

Mr. Speaker, your committee has been considering the appearance by the Languages Commissioner and wishes to report progress. Mr. Speaker, I move that the report of the Chairman of the Committee of the Whole be concurred with. Thank you.

Item 19: Report Of Committee Of The Whole
Item 19: Report Of Committee Of The Whole

Page 394

The Speaker Michael Ballantyne

Is there a seconder to the motion? Mr. Dent. The motion is in order. All those in favour? All those opposed? Motion is carried.

---Carried

Item 20, Third Reading of Bills. Mr. Pollard.

Bill 7: An Act To Amend The Locksmiths, Security Guards And Other Security Occupations Act
Item 20: Third Reading Of Bills

Page 394

John Pollard Hay River

Mr. Speaker, I move seconded by the honourable Member for Baffin Central that Bill 7, An Act to Amend the Locksmiths, Security Guards and Other Security Occupations Act, be read for the third time.

Bill 7: An Act To Amend The Locksmiths, Security Guards And Other Security Occupations Act
Item 20: Third Reading Of Bills

Page 394

The Speaker Michael Ballantyne

The motion is in order, Mr. Pollard.

Bill 7: An Act To Amend The Locksmiths, Security Guards And Other Security Occupations Act
Item 20: Third Reading Of Bills

Page 394

An Hon. Member

Question.

Bill 7: An Act To Amend The Locksmiths, Security Guards And Other Security Occupations Act
Item 20: Third Reading Of Bills

Page 394

The Speaker Michael Ballantyne

Question has been called. All those in favour? All those opposed? Motion is carried.

---Carried

Bill 7 has had third reading. Item 20, Third Reading of Bills. Mr. Kakfwi.

Bill 2: An Act To Amend The Condominium Act
Item 20: Third Reading Of Bills

Page 395

Stephen Kakfwi

Stephen Kakfwi Sahtu

Mr. Speaker, I move seconded by the honourable Member for Nunakput that Bill 2, An Act to Amend the Condominium Act be read for the third time.

Bill 2: An Act To Amend The Condominium Act
Item 20: Third Reading Of Bills

Page 395

The Speaker Michael Ballantyne

The motion is in order.

Bill 2: An Act To Amend The Condominium Act
Item 20: Third Reading Of Bills

Page 395

An Hon. Member

Question.

Bill 2: An Act To Amend The Condominium Act
Item 20: Third Reading Of Bills

Page 395

The Speaker Michael Ballantyne

Question has been called. All those in favour? All those opposed? Motion is carried.

---Carried

Bill 2 has had third reading. Item 20, Third Reading of Bills. Mr. Pollard.

Bill 14: Supplementary Appropriation Act, No. 4, 1991-92
Item 20: Third Reading Of Bills

Page 395

John Pollard Hay River

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I move second by the honourable Member for Nunakput that Bill 14, Supplementary Appropriation Act, No. 3, 1992-93, be read for the third time.

Bill 14: Supplementary Appropriation Act, No. 4, 1991-92
Item 20: Third Reading Of Bills

Page 395

The Speaker Michael Ballantyne

The motion is in order.

Bill 14: Supplementary Appropriation Act, No. 4, 1991-92
Item 20: Third Reading Of Bills

Page 395

An Hon. Member

Question.

Bill 14: Supplementary Appropriation Act, No. 4, 1991-92
Item 20: Third Reading Of Bills

Page 395

The Speaker Michael Ballantyne

Question has been called. All those in favour? All those opposed? Motion is carried.

---Carried

Bill 14 has had third reading. Item 20, Third Reading of Bills. Item 21, Mr. Clerk, Orders of the Day.

Item 21: Orders Of The Day
Item 21: Orders Of The Day

Page 395

Clerk Of The House Mr. David Hamilton

Mr. Speaker, there is a meeting of the Standing Committee on Legislation and a meeting of the Striking Committee immediately after adjournment. Meetings for tomorrow morning at 9:00 a.m. of the Standing Committee on Finance, and at 10:30 a.m. of the Ordinary Members' Caucus. Orders of the day for Thursday, December 10, 1992.

1. Prayer

2. Ministers' Statements

3. Members' Statements

4. Returns to Oral Questions

5. Oral Questions

6. Written Questions

7. Returns to Written Questions

8. Replies to Opening Address

9. Petitions

10. Reports of Standing and Special Committees

11. Reports of Committees on the Review of Bills

12. Tabling of Documents

13. Notices of Motion

14. Notices of Motions for First Reading of Bills

15. Motions

- Motion 8-12(3), Extended Adjournment Of The House

- Motion 9-12(3), Campaign Of The International Fund For Animal Welfare

16. First Reading of Bills

- Bill 16, Norman Wells Natural Gas Distribution System Act

17. Second Reading of Bills

- Bill 8, Payroll Tax Act

18. Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

- Tabled Document 2-12(3), the Appearance of the Languages Commissioner

- Bill 4, An Act to Amend the Public Trustee Act

- Bill 5, An Act to Amend the Social Assistance Act

- Bill 6, An Act to Amend the Commercial Tenancies Act

- Bill 11, An Act to Amend the Legislative Assembly and Executive Council Act

- Bill 15, An Act to Amend the Wildlife Act

19. Report of Committee of the Whole

20. Third Reading of Bills

21. Orders of the Day

Item 21: Orders Of The Day
Item 21: Orders Of The Day

Page 395

The Speaker Michael Ballantyne

Thank you, Mr. Clerk. The swearing in of Mr. Nerysoo will immediately follow adjournment. This House stands adjourned until 1:30 p.m. Thursday, December 10, 1992.

---ADJOURNMENT