I am not that familiar with the procedural aspects of things. If we want to debate it, it does not matter to me, we can debate it anytime. If there is a requirement for further clarification by the Government Leader, I would be prepared to meet with her at her convenience.

On the third motion, hire north, and the feeling amongst the Standing Committee on Finance, is we have to find new and creative ways to ensure that more northerners are placed within the civil service.

Motion to Adopt Recommendation 3, Carried

Motion number three, I move that the committee recommends that the Assembly establish a goal of increasing the number of aboriginal people in the civil service to 50 percent, or more, by 1997.

Further, the committee recommends that the government review options and develop an action plan with the 1993-94 main estimates to accomplish this goal, including job reclassification, to use talents available in the north, a development of career paths and advertising recruitment in the south, on an exception basis only.

Thank you, you motion is in order. To the motion. Madam Premier.

Mr. Chairman, I would like to have the thoughts on what would be the exception of basis only in the south. For example, on certain job functions that we know we do not have, people such as teachers, engineers, doctors or nurses, how would that work in the exceptional basis only? Is there a category of people that you would expect a better retention of, or better involvement in? A little more clarification. Thank you.

Thank you. Mr. Todd.

I think that we said it clearly enough earlier on in the week, when we talked about the need for political direction as it relates to southern hires, not a bureaucratic one. Everybody understands that there are fields of expertise that we do not have in this country, however, there are a number of jobs out there, in our opinion, the committee's opinion, the bureaucracy, for expediency sake, looks to the south rather than the north.

What we are suggesting here is that while we recognize that there are some skill levels that we do not have in this part of the country, whether it is doctors, or engineers, or whatever, we also recognize that there are a number of people out there, if we can redefine some of the requirements for these jobs, put them in the jobs, that they will able to accomplish the jobs.

If the Government Leader wants me to give her a list, she will have to give me some more time. I think she knows full well what we are trying to accomplish here in this resolution.

Thank you. Madam Premier.

Mr. Chairman, I hope that any questions that I might have not be taken as argumentative, but rather as clarification. Because I believe that if we go along, and we have all dealt with these issues for a long time, if we can narrow them down in scope, it is certainly very helpful. Thank you.

Thank you. Mr. Todd.

That is what we are attempting to do in this resolution, Mr. Chairman. We are attempting to say that we have to redefine some of the jobs that are currently being advertised, so that northern people can get them. We need to develop a career path for some of our people so that they can move up the ladder. We talked about the need for, if we are going to hire in the south, term positions, and there be some kind of training component attached to it to see if northerners can eventually fill these positions.

There is clearly a recognition, particularly, in the professional field, that we do not have some of that skill level at this present time. However, in my opinion, as Chairman of the Standing of Committee on Finance, it is unacceptable to continue to be hiring people from the south in jobs, like secretarial jobs, or apprenticeship jobs, etc., and it happens all across the territories. All of us have examples, myself included, that is what we are trying to say here. That is all.

Thank you. To the motion, Mr. Nerysoo.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Just to first indicate that I support the recommendation, as I indicated before, in asking the government to consider developing a northern hire policy.

I would like to make a couple of comments, though, that should be considered in dealing with the recommendation. One, this government should make a greater effort ensuring that we recruit people we educate, who we pay to be educated. In other words, whenever you are recruiting for teachers, that there are northern students who are going to southern institutions that are going to receive their degrees immediately after a recruitment effort, that you should make great efforts to try to recruit those students because they have an understanding of the north itself. They have an appreciation of some of the differences of cultures, and they have probably a greater appreciation for those differences of cultures.

I hope that in reviewing this particular recommendation, we will some how make efforts to ensure that we recruit students and professionals, who have had a great deal of their education paid by this government, and by the people of the Northwest Territories. I just wanted to make that particular comment. I do support the recommendation that is being made.

Thank you. To the motion. Question has been called. All those in favour? All those opposed? The motion is carried. Mr. Todd.

---Carried

Motion to Adopt Recommendation 4, Carried

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I will try to be less defensive in my comments with respect to the motions. The next motion, number four, is measuring output and effect. The government has been asked to provide specific and measurable performance indicators with their budget request for almost ten years, at least in the information I read.

The committee is pleased that the government agrees with this motion, and is reviewing its implementation. However, and I want to stress, that the committee is adamant that resources should no longer be provided for programs that cannot demonstrate their worth. We have to find a way to quantify how we are spending our money.

Throughout the support and the standards, the committee has requested specific minimum performance reporting standards from each government department and agency. These are measures that the committee believes are important indicators of departmental success.

It is also time for this Assembly to get tough on the need for accountability. We have all talked about it, on both sides of the Assembly, therefore, I would like to move that the committee recommend that the Assembly not approve any additional resources in the 1993 main estimates for programs that do not identify planned accomplishments, provide measurements of output and effect on a historic current and projected basis.

Thank you. Your motion is in order. To the motion. Mr. Todd.

If I may, just for a moment, and I do not want to sound too glib. We spend $183 million on running our schools, we spend $30 million on running Arctic College, we spent $43 million on the capital estimates last year, and we are told that only 25 percent of our kids come out of the school with grade 12. All we are saying is that there has to be some way to measure, and to ensure, that we are getting value for our money. That is what this resolution is about. This is just one example of what we are talking about. Thank you.

Thank you. To the motion. Mr. Nerysoo.

Thank you. Could I ask, Mr. Chairman, the committee Chair, did this particular matter also deal with the matter of assessing policies?

Thank you. Mr. Todd.

Yes, it also dealt with policies as it relates to spending money. In other words, the policy of parks, we spent $1.3 million on a park in Lake Harbour. We asked the government to quantify it, there was no argument with the park, and we supported it. Was the policy correct, is the expenditure correct, and what is the net return to northerners with respect to that expenditure?

Thank you. To the motion. Question has been called. All of those in favour? All those opposed? Motion is carried. Mr. Todd.

---Carried

Motion to Adopt Recommendation 5, Carried

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Motions five and six, the value for money in the audit program. The value for money audit of the N.W.T. Housing Corporation, demonstrated last year a severe shortcoming in its management operations. It has taken almost five years to obtain the benefit, and other value for money audits, and that is in the Department of Health, which by the way, has not even been tabled in this House.

The value for money audit of the Department of Economic Development, which was approved by an Assembly motion in March of 1991, still has not commenced yet. The Assembly requires, in our opinion, a more routine basis for obtaining a second, independent opinion of departments and agencies managed funds. This committee, and the Public Accounts Committee, will be working together to identify specific concerns that guide the audit plan. The audit plan should be continued into the life of succeeding Assemblies, and should also cover Crown corporations.

I have two motions on this, Mr. Chairman. Motion five, I move that the Committee recommends that a broad scope value for money audit plan, on an ongoing basis, be established by the Legislative Assembly, based on recommendations of the Standing Committee on Finance and Public Accounts covering all government departments and agencies.

Thank you. Your motion is in order. To the motion. Question has been called. All of those in favour? All those opposed? Motion is carried. Mr. Todd.

---Carried

Motion to Adopt Recommendation 6, Carried

On this same issue, motion six, I move that the committee recommend that the government make revisions to the Financial Administration Act to require a strong accountability regime, by government Crown corporations, similar to part of the federal Financial Administration Act, including the requirement for value for money audits, in other words, Crown corporations should be audited.

Thank you. Your motion is in order. To the motion. Question has been called. All of those in favour? All those opposed? Motion is carried. Mr. Todd.

---Carried

Motion to Adopt Recommendation 7, Carried