This is page numbers 549 - 580 of the Hansard for the 12th Assembly, 6th Session. The original version can be accessed on the Legislative Assembly's website or by contacting the Legislative Assembly Library. The word of the day was housing.

Topics

Members Present

Mr. Antoine, Hon. Silas Arngna'naaq, Mr. Ballantyne, Hon. Nellie Cournoyea, Mr. Dent, Mr. Gargan, Hon. Stephen Kakfwi, Mr. Koe, Mr. Lewis, Hon. Jeannie Marie-Jewell, Hon. Rebecca Mike, Hon. Don Morin, Hon. Richard Nerysoo, Mr. Ng, Mr. Ningark, Hon. John Pollard, Mr. Pudlat, Mr. Pudluk, Mr. Whitford, Mr. Zoe

---Prayer

Item 1: Prayer
Item 1: Prayer

Page 549

The Speaker Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Good afternoon. Item 2, Ministers' statements. The honourable Member for Sahtu, Mr. Kakfwi.

Minister's Statement 42-12(6): Appointment Of Ms. Mary Simon As Canada's First Circumpolar Ambassador
Item 2: Ministers' Statements

Page 549

Stephen Kakfwi Sahtu

Madam Speaker, I am pleased to rise today to congratulate Ms. Mary Simon on the occasion of her appointment as Canada's first circumpolar ambassador. The announcement was made jointly by the federal Foreign Affairs Minister, Andre Ouellette, and the Minister of Indian Affairs and Northern Development, Ron Irwin, late last week. Dr. Simon, who is the first Inuit to hold an ambassadorial position in Canada, will assume this position on October 31, 1994, on Monday.

Ms. Simon is known for her dedication, her impressive list of accomplishments and for creating awareness about and generating action about northern issues, particularly as they relate to the concerns of northern aboriginal peoples. Ms. Simon was born in northern Quebec and worked for CBC Northern Service until 1973, including responsibilities as a producer and announcer for Inuktitut radio and television.

She has held a number of positions with the Inuit Tapirisat of Canada and has been a member of the board since 1991. In 1979, Dr. Simon served as first vice-president of the Makavik Corporation and was elected president in 1982. From 1980 to 1983 she was an executive council member of the Inuit circumpolar conference and served as its president from 1986 to 1992. Since then, she has been the special envoy to the Inuit circumpolar conference, dealing with many important issues such as fur harvesting.

In 1992, she was awarded an honorary doctorate from McGill University and was appointed a year later as co-director of policy and commission secretary for the Royal Commission on Aboriginal Peoples. In 1994, she was appointed as a member of the Nunavut implementation commission.

Mary Simon has been honoured for her work through appointments to the Order of Canada, the National Order of Quebec and the Gold Order of Greenland. Circumpolar ambassador, Dr. Simon will report to the Minister of Foreign Affairs and the Minister of Indian Affairs and Northern Development. As well as representing Canada at international meetings on circumpolar issues, she will coordinate federal efforts on circumpolar issues, including the implementation of a Canadian proposal to create an Arctic council, a fulfilment of Canada's policy with respect to Antarctica and Canada's participation in the eight-nation Arctic environmental protection strategy. The next ministerial conference on the Arctic environmental protection strategy is scheduled for the spring of 1996, and it is to be hosted by Canada in Iqaluit.

Madam Speaker, I've had the pleasure of working with Mary Simon in the past on a number of issues of importance to the north. Her keen interest in addressing and motivating action in critical areas such as the environment and political development has provided a strong voice for northern people. Her appointment as Canada's first circumpolar ambassador will continue to provide an effective role in international recognition for northerners in areas within her mandate. I'm particularly pleased that the federal government has not only acknowledged the significant contribution of Mary Simon to the advancement of circumpolar and aboriginal issues, but Ottawa has also recognized that a northern aboriginal person can most effectively represent Canada's as its first circumpolar ambassador.

The Premier and I both have written to Ms. Simon on behalf of the Government of the Northwest Territories to congratulate her on her appointment. Dr. Simon has been invited to meet with the Government of the Northwest Territories and Members of this Assembly at her earliest convenience to review northern matters related to her mandate and to determine how we can provide assistance and support for her important work. Thank you.

---Applause

Minister's Statement 42-12(6): Appointment Of Ms. Mary Simon As Canada's First Circumpolar Ambassador
Item 2: Ministers' Statements

Page 549

The Speaker Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Thank you. Item 2, Ministers' statements. Item 3, Members' statements. The honourable Member for Yellowknife Frame Lake, Mr. Dent.

Transfer Of Sir John Franklin High School
Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 549

Charles Dent Yellowknife Frame Lake

Thank you, Madam Speaker. Madam Speaker, on June 30th of this year, the government dissolved the board of secondary education here in Yellowknife. This opened the way for the long-awaited transfer of responsibility for Sir John Franklin High School to the Yellowknife Education District No. 1. Naturally, district No. 1 considers the management of Sir John to be a great responsibility. Not only is the district taking

over responsibility for an important part of our public education system, it is also taking over a large, aging school building.

Madam Speaker, the district is understandably concerned about this responsibility. They are understandably anxious to avoid adding to the property tax burden of Yellowknife ratepayers, who already pay more than their fair share of education taxes.

The district has tried to address these concerns by drafting a memorandum of agreement between the district and the government. The chair of the district board, Wendy Bisaro, sent this memorandum to the Minister of Education on August 17th for his signature. The Minister responded in September by saying he had difficulty with signing the agreement. The Minister's letter went on to describe the issues outstanding and the government's position on those issues, which appeared the same as what was set out in the memorandum of agreement of August 17th.

Madam Speaker, Yellowknife Education District No. 1 is concerned about the Sir John transfer. Taxes collected from Yellowknife ratepayers are already far higher than those collected elsewhere in the Northwest Territories compared to the total funding of local schools. The average Yellowknife home owner pays four to seven times as much education tax as does the average NWT home owner outside of Yellowknife. The percentage of total school funding, paid by education property taxes, is 10 times higher in Yellowknife than the rest of the NWT on average.

Madam Speaker, for instance, an average three-bedroom house in Rankin Inlet -- say the type that an MLA might live in -- will be assessed in 1994 annual school taxes of $118.14. A similar house in Cambridge Bay would be assessed at $116.55. In Iqaluit, the owner of such a house will pay $189.62 this year. Madam Speaker, I am about to run out of time, so I seek unanimous consent to conclude my statement.

Transfer Of Sir John Franklin High School
Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 550

The Speaker Jeannie Marie-Jewell

The honourable Member is seeking unanimous consent. Are there any nays? There are no nays. Please proceed, Mr. Dent.

Transfer Of Sir John Franklin High School
Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 550

Charles Dent Yellowknife Frame Lake

Thank you, Madam Speaker. Thank you, honourable Members. As I was saying, a home owner in Fort Smith or Hay River will pay approximately $225 in school taxes. In Inuvik, a home owner will pay the comparatively high amount of about $250. However, Madam Speaker, in Yellowknife, the owner of a similar home would pay a whopping $878.88.

Madam Speaker, given these comparisons, it is no wonder that Yellowknife Education District No. 1 is concerned that without a firm agreement with the Minister of Education, residents of Yellowknife might have to pay even higher taxes to cover the cost of operating and maintaining Sir John. This is especially important given the extensive and expensive renovations planned for the school over the next few years.

Madam Speaker, I hope that the Minister of Education will consider this issue carefully. Not only must he provide a way of reassuring Yellowknife Education District No. 1 that they will not be left holding the bag for Sir John, but they must also consider the issue of equitable school taxes in Yellowknife and the rest of the Northwest Territories. Thank you, Madam Speaker.

---Applause

Transfer Of Sir John Franklin High School
Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 550

The Speaker Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Thank you. Item 3, Members' statements. The honourable Member for Deh Cho, Mr. Gargan.

Environmental Review Process
Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 550

Samuel Gargan Deh Cho

Thank you, Madam Speaker. Madam Speaker, as Members may be aware, the federal government is presently conducting an environmental review into the impact of low-level flights in the Goose Bay/Labrador area. Apparently, a leading anthropologist from the Arctic Institute of North America, Ms. Carol Brice-Bennett was commissioned to study the potential impact of these flights and present them to the review panel at the public hearings.

It is my understanding that during her presentation, she was attempting to comment on the review process itself, the nature of the panel and the scope of the issues being addressed in order to put her findings into context. Again, as I understand it, the chair of the panel didn't allow Ms. Brice-Bennett to continue in this manner and, in effect, ruled that her presentation would not be heard.

This disturbed me greatly, Madam Speaker. As we all know, the north has been the centre of such environmental reviews in the past and will be again in the near future. In fact, a similar occurrence was experienced not long ago during the scoping hearings in Sanikiluaq for the Great Whale hydro project. Apparently, the chair of the federal panel cut the meeting short because of bad weather approaching and they did not want to get weathered in. At that point, a number of residents had still not had the opportunity to make a presentation to the panel. They were advised to submit their views to the panel in writing. This is unfortunate, Madam Speaker, because as Members know, the way we do business and address our concerns in the north is face to face, in person. This is especially true of our elders who do not have the formal education to express themselves in writing. Needless to say, those written submissions, if they were sent, could not have had the same impact or been given the same consideration as oral presentations.

There is another concern that I have, Madam Speaker. This has to do with the environmental assessment and the review process itself. It concerns me that the process seems to be set up so that it allows the federal environmental assessment review...

Environmental Review Process
Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 550

The Speaker Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Mr. Gargan, your time is up. The honourable Member for Deh Cho, Mr. Gargan.

Environmental Review Process
Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 550

Samuel Gargan Deh Cho

Madam Speaker, I seek unanimous consent to continue my statement.

Environmental Review Process
Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 550

The Speaker Jeannie Marie-Jewell

The honourable Member is seeking unanimous consent. Are there any nays? There are no nays. Please proceed, Mr. Gargan.

Environmental Review Process
Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 550

Samuel Gargan Deh Cho

Thank you, Madam Speaker, and honourable Members. ...the federal environmental assessment review

office, FEARO, to establish a panel and conduct public hearings into the initiative of other federal agencies or departments. I am not saying there is anything wrong going on. But appearances are important. As we believe in this House, justice must not only be done, it must be seen to be done.

This concerns me for another reason, Madam Speaker. In the Northwest Territories, we have not established our own environmental assessment and review process. As it stands, we fall under the federal process. We, in the north, are very aware of and concerned with the environmental impact of development projects. When the time comes, it won't be long now, we will want our voices to be heard when decisions about our future and the future of our land are to be made. We want to be in possession of all the facts, including the opinions of experts. We do not want rules of process or procedures to interfere with our ability to make informed decisions. We do not want what happened to Ms. Brice-Bennett or the unfortunate people of Sanikiluaq to happen here.

Therefore, Madam Speaker, I submit that it is time for all governments, particularly the federal government, to take a long close look at the entire process to ensure it is as effective as possible, as independent as possible and as fair as possible. They are called "public hearings," Madam Speaker, so let the public be heard. Mahsi cho.

---Applause

Environmental Review Process
Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 551

The Speaker Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Item 3, Members' statements. The honourable Member for Yellowknife Centre, Mr. Lewis.

Round-table On Economy And Environment
Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 551

Brian Lewis Yellowknife Centre

Thank you, Madam Speaker. During the 11th Assembly, we established a Special Committee on Northern Economy. This work really was to provide some kind of long-range idea about the way we should go as a jurisdiction. It was adopted by our Assembly.

One of the recommendations was that we establish a round-table on the economy and the environment. That was chopped after a short time because it was seen to be redundant, but a lot of thought had gone into the way we were going as a territory. It was felt by our committee and Members at that time that if we were going to develop in the west -- especially in the west -- then it was very important that we didn't put ourselves in the position that we have to react and take on fights with all the groups of people who are attracted to this part of the world and there is a battle which suddenly they can engage in; raise lots of money to protect this and that.

I would urge the government to really look at some kind of forum, whereby all the stakeholders could meet -- and it doesn't have to be expensive, it doesn't have to meet every week -- maybe once or twice a year to exchange information so that northern people can set the ground rules about the way we're going to develop. That was the point of the round-table. I'm sorry, in their haste to look at things that could be chopped out because they didn't have an immediate impact, the government reconsidered the need for this kind of forum right now. Simply because I believe we are on the verge of major developments in the west and I don't believe we should allow people outside of this jurisdiction, and outside of Canada, in many cases, to dictate to us how we go. Thank you.

Round-table On Economy And Environment
Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 551

The Speaker Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Thank you. Item 3, Members' statements. The honourable Member for Kitikmeot, Mr. Ng.

Contamination Of Coppermine's Fresh Water Supply
Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 551

Kelvin Ng Kitikmeot

Thank you, Madam Speaker. Madam Speaker, similar to a majority of other communities with trucked water service, Coppermine's fresh water is drawn from a fresh water source -- in their case, near the mouth of the Coppermine River -- into a water treatment centre and stored until water trucks receive the water and deliver it to households and businesses throughout the community.

Over the past several years, the contamination of the fresh water supply has taken place as a result of silt and sediment infiltration and salt water intrusion. The reasons for the contamination have been attributed to faulty salt water detection monitoring equipment, low water levels in the Coppermine River, high tides, strong northerly winds, clogged intake line filters and various other reasons. The obvious reason for the annual contamination problem is poor location of the water intake treatment facility.

Madam Speaker, this year has been the worst ever, to the recollection of Coppermine residents, for salt water contamination. The community has endured salt water contamination regularly since early August. The hamlet council and I have addressed this issue to the government, only to be reassured that alternative water resupply avenues were established through a contingency plan to be used during extended periods of salt water intrusion, to ensure that the community has access to potable water at all times.

Madam Speaker, the contingency plan is not working. Over the last two full days the community residents of Coppermine have gone without water deliver as, once again, the high tides and low water levels have shut down the fresh water system in Coppermine. At 9:00 am this morning the water supply system was reactivated and, once again, there was fresh water available at the intake source. However, this may only be a temporary occurrence as tides and wind conditions may once again lead to the closure of the water supply system, if not today, in the immediate future.

In recognizing the water supply problem, MACA in previous years, had scheduled major water supply improvements to the community of Coppermine for 1995-96. However, in this year's capital estimates, the water supply improvements have been pushed back to 1996-97.

Madam Speaker, my time is up. I seek unanimous consent to conclude my statement.

Contamination Of Coppermine's Fresh Water Supply
Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 552

The Speaker Jeannie Marie-Jewell

The honourable Member is seeking unanimous consent to continue. Are there any nays? There are no nays. Please proceed, Mr. Ng.

Contamination Of Coppermine's Fresh Water Supply
Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 552

Kelvin Ng Kitikmeot

Thank you, Madam Speaker, honourable colleagues. Madam Speaker, fresh water is a basic necessity for survival. It is a priority for all people. I find it totally unacceptable that the people of Coppermine had to deal with not having the availability of fresh water on a regular, year-round basis. Our government supplies and maintains the water treatment infrastructure. They have been unsuccessful in addressing the issue of ensuring fresh water is available to the hamlet for delivery to the community. It is obvious to me that the water supply intake source must be relocated.

Madam Speaker, this issue is of critical importance to the people of Coppermine. I will continue to pursue this matter in asking the government to reinstate the funding for next year's construction and to ensure there is a constant, dependable fresh water supply to the residents of Coppermine.

---Applause

Contamination Of Coppermine's Fresh Water Supply
Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 552

The Speaker Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Thank you. Item 3, Members' statements. The honourable Member for High Arctic, Mr. Pudluk.

Future Location Of The Capital Of Nunavut
Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 552

Ludy Pudluk High Arctic

(Translation) Thank you, Madam Speaker. Today I would like to express my concern about the Nunavut government. I know they are discussing the location of the capital of the Nunavut government today. I know there is going to be a great deal of debate and lobbying. It was a difficult battle to divide the north and settle the boundary. We had to work very hard at it for many years. Today, our people in Nunavut believe and know that Nunavut is going to become a reality.

They are happy that future generations will have a place to call their own and a government that is closer to their communities than Yellowknife. Many people have expressed the concern many times about having the headquarters in Yellowknife, which is too far away.

We began discussing the division of the north in the late 1970s and we had a plebiscite in 1982 to settle this question. The majority voted for division. Since then, we started discussing the boundary issue; where the dividing line is going to be. After ten years of discussion, we had a plebiscite to settle the question of the boundary. The majority voted in favour of the proposed boundary. Up to today, northerners have made their own decisions about how Nunavut is going to be.

Madam Speaker, I would like to tell the leaders of Nunavut not to worry so much about where the capital is going to be. We know it is going to somewhere in Nunavut. The exact location or the formation of the government is not really an issue any more. There is no real need for debate any more. We can just settle through negotiations. And 1999 is getting closer. We will have to put our House in order so that Nunavut will have a firm basis to start from. Thank you, Madam Speaker.

Future Location Of The Capital Of Nunavut
Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 552

The Speaker Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Thank you. Item 3, Members' statements. The honourable Member for Natilikmiot, Mr. Ningark.

Allocation Of Social Assistance
Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 552

John Ningark Natilikmiot

(Translation) Thank you, Madam Speaker. I stand today to talk about social assistance recipients. They are in need. I realize they always go through a hard time. They are worried about their children, their families and their households. This summer, I met with the hamlet council in Pelly Bay regarding this issue and I was asked to bring up the issue of social assistance to the Minister.

A lot of times, a large household will receive the same amount as a household that is smaller. As Members of the Legislative Assembly, we have to work for the people in our communities. We have to treat our constituents the same and we have to support them. It is not good to ignore this situation. I will be bringing this up during question period. Thank you.

Allocation Of Social Assistance
Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 552

The Speaker Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Thank you. Item 3, Members' statements. The honourable Member for Yellowknife South, Mr. Whitford.

Dangers Of Thin Ice
Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 552

Tony Whitford Yellowknife South

Thank you, Madam Speaker. Madam Speaker, this past week, we were all saddened to hear of the accidental death of a respected elder and experienced hunter in the Kitikmeot, one of Mr. Ng's constituents, after his snow machine went through the ice on a fishing trip.

Last year in early winter, we here in Yellowknife, too, lost two young people to a similar type of accident on Yellowknife Bay when the snowmobile and toboggan that they were using to cross the lake fell through thin ice. It was only about half a mile or three-quarters of a mile from their homes in Dettah. A couple of winters ago, you will recall, sadly, that two experienced hunters from Lutsel K'e perished on the natural lake when their snow machine went through thin ice as well.

Each year in winter many sport hunters, fishermen and snowmobilers get anxious, as winter moves south, to get out and enjoy the beautiful winters that we have here. And almost each year for the past decade, we've lost someone. These events have ended tragically. In most cases, these accidents happen away from where help can immediately be found. Hypothermia is usually followed by drowning. If they manage to get out of the water, there is no guarantee that they're going to be safe because of the cold, and that can also result in death.

Some of these events can be prevented, they're not all totally accidents. If people just use caution, and certainly if they exercise patience. People must wait until the ice is formed solid enough on the lakes before they can...Certainly, on the bigger lakes where there are currents and the water stays warmer for a longer period of time because of the size, and the ice doesn't form.

I would also like to caution parents here in Yellowknife that they should explain to the children that Frame Lake, out here on our doorstep, will not be safe for quite some time, given the warm weather we've had. If you recall, the ice has formed almost solidly across the lake at least twice in the last two weeks. In a couple of day's time, the ice had gone completely and we had open water. And this is going to continue, according to the weatherman, for some period of time. So I would ask parents to make sure that their kids exercise...

Dangers Of Thin Ice
Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 553

The Speaker Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Sorry, your time was up and I had pressed the button prior to completing your statement.

Dangers Of Thin Ice
Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 553

Tony Whitford Yellowknife South

Thank you, Madam Speaker. May I seek unanimous consent to conclude?

Dangers Of Thin Ice
Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 553

The Speaker Jeannie Marie-Jewell

The honourable Member is seeking unanimous consent to continue. Are there any nays? There are no nays. Proceed, Mr. Whitford.

Dangers Of Thin Ice
Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 553

Tony Whitford Yellowknife South

Thank you, Madam Speaker, and colleagues. You will recall that in the last two weeks, Frame Lake has frozen over completely from shore to shore at least twice. And a couple of days after, it had melted completely and we now have open water.

I would like to ask parents to make sure that they explain to their children that although there's ice on that lake, although they can throw rocks on it and the ice won't break, it's still not safe to walk on. If they ever fall through, it's very unlikely that they'll have a chance to be pulled out of there in time to save their lives. So, with that, I say think safe, wait and live to enjoy the winter. Thanks very much.

---Applause

Dangers Of Thin Ice
Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 553

The Speaker Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Thank you. Item 3, Members' statements. The honourable Member for Baffin South, Mr. Pudlat.

Upgrading Road In Sanikiluaq
Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 553

Kenoayoak Pudlat Baffin South

(Translation) Thank you, Madam Speaker. I rise to express my concern in Sanikiluaq with regard to the road that takes the local people to the fishing spot. This road is not in very good condition; it has to be upgraded. It's the preferred road to be travelled, rather than going through the water they prefer to go through this road by three-wheel Honda or four-wheel Honda. I don't think it would be very much work to upgrade this road, and we would like to get support for upgrading this road. Thank you, Madam Speaker.

---Applause

Upgrading Road In Sanikiluaq
Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 553

The Speaker Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Thank you. Item 3, Members' statements. The honourable Member for Sahtu, Mr. Kakfwi.

Metis Voice Report Card
Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 553

Stephen Kakfwi Sahtu

Madam Speaker, following the tabling of the Metis Voice, yesterday, I wanted to rise to comment on the report that is contained within...

---Applause

...the Metis Voice. I got a B- in the report card...

Metis Voice Report Card
Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 553

Some Hon. Members

Nay, nay.

Metis Voice Report Card
Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 553

Stephen Kakfwi Sahtu

...and I want to thank whoever wrote the report card for the mark.

I want to take issue with the report card that says I hate Billy. I don't always agree with the national chief of the Dene Nation, but actually he's not such a bad character. He sent me a calendar the other day, for instance, and this is something new for 1994. "Hate" in any way is a strong word to use in anybody's relationship. My relationship with the national chief of the Dene Nation has been rather rocky at the best of times over the years, and I would be the last one to deny it. But whoever said that political leaders have to love one another?

What I do take exception to even more is this slimy, low-life report card that ridicules good leaders like us who are working hard and trying hard to deliver on our political commitments.

Take my good friend, Mr. Nerysoo, for instance. I don't always agree with him either, but surely he doesn't deserve to be called "Slicky Ricky."

---Laughter

I think he has worked hard in the last few years trying to deliver in the area of education, which is very difficult.

The report card also says and calls me "stone face." Now, I find that a bit amusing, even though I don't smile when talking about it. Some people tell me I was born like that. Some friends who are liberals ask me if it is true that it is a childhood affliction, but my kids and my wife tell me it's slowly going away.

Metis Voice Report Card
Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 553

Some Hon. Members

Agreed, agreed.

Metis Voice Report Card
Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 553

Stephen Kakfwi Sahtu

Could I ask for consent to finish my statement, please?

Metis Voice Report Card
Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 553

The Speaker Jeannie Marie-Jewell

The honourable Member is seeking unanimous consent to continue with his statement. Are there any nays? There are no nays. Proceed, Mr. Kakfwi.

Metis Voice Report Card
Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 553

Stephen Kakfwi Sahtu

Madam Speaker, when I was younger, I always thought that I smiled much too often and too frivolously. I thought, and I was totally convinced, that one should be very careful about how generous one becomes with such public displays of emotion. I'm always suspect as it is anyway, and when I begin smiling, people around me begin to enquire as to why the sudden change.

Madam Speaker, I will make a commitment that I will change, but I will have to try to phase it in. I want to tell you today of my new goal. No more stone face by 1999. Thank you.

---Laughter

---Applause

Metis Voice Report Card
Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 553

The Speaker Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Item 3, Members' statements. The honourable Member for Nahendeh, Mr. Antoine.

Telecommunications In Small Communities
Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 554

Jim Antoine Nahendeh

Mahsi, Madam Speaker. Madam Speaker, I would like to talk about communications today. In this modern era today, we enjoy using telephones and cordless phones, and you can talk to anybody in any place in this world today, Madam Speaker. However, there are some of my constituents who are still in the dark ages in communication. These are the smaller communities that I have talked about before in the House. I would like to say again that these people have been in need of better telecommunications in the small communities of Jean Marie River, Nahanni Butte and Trout Lake. They only have one telephone which is a pay phone and it is on the FM channel, so there is a public poster in the community that says if you use the telephone, don't talk about anything personal or medical because there might be someone in the community who has you tuned in and will listen to everything that goes on in your conversation. So even though they have a telephone, it isn't a very private way of communicating. So they have very limited use of the telephone and it is very inconvenient.

There are people in the communities who have requested to have phones in their own homes. However, that isn't possible with the technology that is available to them in the smaller communities. There are band and community offices, schools and teachers who require better communications. They don't have the convenience of faxes available to them either.

Just the other day, the Minister of Education, Culture and Employment made an announcement about distance education that is available to people who have the technology. But this limits the people in these communities from not acquiring these services from the department. The communities, when they first got their telephone, modified it so they could use a cordless telephone. Madam Speaker, I seek unanimous consent to conclude my statement. Mahsi.

Telecommunications In Small Communities
Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 554

The Speaker Jeannie Marie-Jewell

The honourable Member is seeking unanimous consent. Are there any nays? There are no nays. Please proceed, Mr. Antoine.

Telecommunications In Small Communities
Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 554

Jim Antoine Nahendeh

Thank you, Madam Speaker. The people in the communities, when the telephone first came into their area, were able to modify it on their own, so they could use cordless phones in the band offices. Then they wouldn't have to stand by the pay phone when they made business calls for the band office. NorthwesTel personnel squashed their little bit of communication freedom by remodifying the telephone so that cordless phones could no longer be used. This was very inconvenient for them. So what happens is when their business call comes in to the band manager, they have to go to the pay phone and conduct their business standing by the pay phone. In a lot of cases, it is in the porch of their public building.

In this case, it is very inconvenient and requires some changes and help from the government. I have made statements in the House requesting the Minister responsible for Public Works and Services to do something about this. Two years ago, I was organizing a trip, for the MLAs affected, to go to Whitehorse and meet with the president of NorthwesTel. But I was told to hold off, until the Minister could do something with

it. I am still waiting. I think it is about time that something be done about this. Mahsi, Madam Speaker.

---Applause

Telecommunications In Small Communities
Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 554

The Speaker Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Thank you. Item 3, Members' statements. The honourable Member for Yellowknife North, Mr. Ballantyne.

Sexual Assault And Child Sexual Abuse
Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 554

Michael Ballantyne Yellowknife North

Thank you, Madam Speaker. The incidence of sexual assault and child sexual abuse is increasing at an alarming rate in the Northwest Territories. Present victims' programs and services are woefully inadequate to deal with the alarming rise in sexual assaults and child sexual abuse.

What is needed in the Northwest Territories is a combination of approaches. What we have seen is, slowly but surely, increases and stiffer sentences for perpetrators. That has to continue. People who are convicted of sexual assault or child sexual abuse have to be told, in no uncertain terms, that it is unacceptable in our society.

There have to be stronger statements by political leaders. We hear a lot of very strong, positive statements by women leaders, but what we haven't heard enough of over the years is strong political statements by male leaders. We need immediate and long-term counselling and support for victims. We have a long way to go.

It has been said many times that there has to be ongoing education for everyone involved in the justice system and social services system. It has been documented in numerous reports, but between reports it seems to be forgotten. There can be no misunderstanding that men are the primary perpetrators of sexual assault and child sexual abuse. Men then have the primary responsibility to put an end to it.

Sexual assault and child sexual abuse is totally unacceptable in our society. The statistics are frightening. Unless we do something about it, eventually its impact will be felt personally by everyone in this room. Thank you, Madam Speaker.

---Applause

Sexual Assault And Child Sexual Abuse
Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 554

The Speaker Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Thank you. Item 3, Members' statements. Item 4, returns to oral questions. Madam Premier.

Return To Question 136-12(6): Status Of Birthing Centre Pilot Project In Keewatin
Item 4: Returns To Oral Questions
Item 4: Returns To Oral Questions

Page 554

Nellie Cournoyea Nunakput

Thank you, Madam Speaker. I have a return to a question asked by Mr. Ludy Pudluk on October 14th regarding the status of the birthing centre and the pilot project in the Keewatin.

Madam Speaker, the Rankin Inlet birthing project appears to be functioning very well. There have been 20 babies delivered in the health centre since November 22, 1993. Only one mother and baby had to be medevaced out after delivery, due to prematurity of the infant. Two deliveries had minor complications, but the nurse/midwives were able to handle the situation in the absence of the regional physician. High and extreme risk mothers are still being sent out to Winnipeg for safe delivery of their infants in a hospital setting.

The education component of the project is progressing very well. The partners of the mothers are becoming more involved in the classes and attending clinics with their partners. It has been noted that fathers who have attended the delivery of their baby are now visiting the well-baby clinics with their new infants.

Madam Speaker, there have been problems in staffing the nurse/midwife positions. Both midwives who started with the project have left. The Keewatin Regional Health Board has advertised twice across Canada and has not been able to staff the position yet. The coordinator of the project is working in one of the positions and the second position is staffed by rotating nurses from within the Keewatin region to ensure coverage until the positions can be filled.

Efforts are continuing to locate replacements for the midwives.

Return To Question 152-12(6): Staff Cuts To Yellowknife Health Centre
Item 4: Returns To Oral Questions
Item 4: Returns To Oral Questions

Page 554

Nellie Cournoyea Nunakput

Madam Speaker, I have another reply. It is a reply to a question asked by Mr. Charles Dent on October 17th regarding staff cuts to Yellowknife health centre.

Madam Speaker, the Yellowknife public health unit has not cut one public health nurse from its staff. A two-year term position expired on October 23, 1994. This position was in addition to the approved staffing level for that unit. Mackenzie Regional Health Services will be conducting a review of the current responsibility and workloads of the Yellowknife public health unit in this fiscal year.

The results of this review will determine the long-term staffing for the Yellowknife public health unit. Thank you, Madam Speaker.

Return To Question 152-12(6): Staff Cuts To Yellowknife Health Centre
Item 4: Returns To Oral Questions
Item 4: Returns To Oral Questions

Page 555

The Speaker Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Thank you. Item 4, returns to oral questions.

Return To Question 152-12(6): Staff Cuts To Yellowknife Health Centre
Item 4: Returns To Oral Questions
Item 4: Returns To Oral Questions

Page 555

Ludy Pudluk High Arctic

(Microphone turned off)

Return To Question 152-12(6): Staff Cuts To Yellowknife Health Centre
Item 4: Returns To Oral Questions
Item 4: Returns To Oral Questions

Page 555

The Speaker Jeannie Marie-Jewell

There is no such thing as point of corrections under our rules, Mr. Pudluk, but if you want to call a point of order...Point of order, Mr. Pudluk.

Point Of Order

Return To Question 152-12(6): Staff Cuts To Yellowknife Health Centre
Item 4: Returns To Oral Questions
Item 4: Returns To Oral Questions

Page 555

Ludy Pudluk High Arctic

Thank you, Madam Speaker. With regard to return to Question 136-12(6), I didn't ask that question. Mr. Pudlat asked that question. Thank you.

Return To Question 152-12(6): Staff Cuts To Yellowknife Health Centre
Item 4: Returns To Oral Questions
Item 4: Returns To Oral Questions

Page 555

The Speaker Jeannie Marie-Jewell

That would come under a point of order, Mr. Pudluk. The return to oral question that has been submitted by the government does state that it was asked by Mr. Ludy Pudluk, whereas it was asked by Mr. Kenoayoak Pudlat. So, there was an error in it's stating that it should have been asked by Mr. Pudlat as opposed to Mr. Pudluk. So, therefore, the records will be corrected and you did have a point of order. Thank you. Item 4, returns to oral questions. The honourable Member for Baffin Central, Ms. Mike.

Further Return To Question 258-12(6): Conflict Of Interest Re Awg Site Selection
Item 4: Returns To Oral Questions
Item 4: Returns To Oral Questions

Page 555

Rebecca Mike Baffin Central

Good afternoon, Madam Speaker. I have a return to an oral question asked by Mr. Gargan on October 26, 1994 regarding the 1998 Arctic Winter Games host community selection. The Arctic Winter Games International Committee's bid review process included visits and meetings with officials in both Inuvik and Yellowknife. Both communities submitted bid proposals that were based on their projections of facilities and resources in 1998, the time of the games.

It can be safely assumed that the international committee was aware of, and considered, any new infrastructure that was expected to be in place for 1998. The actual discussions and the review of the bid proposal cannot be commented on, as has been mentioned before. The NWT directors did not actively participate in the decision-making process, nor has this information been shared by the international committee. Thank you.

Further Return To Question 258-12(6): Conflict Of Interest Re Awg Site Selection
Item 4: Returns To Oral Questions
Item 4: Returns To Oral Questions

Page 555

The Speaker Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Thank you. Item 4, returns to oral questions. The honourable Member for Tu Nedhe, Mr. Morin.

Return To Question 127-12(6): Reason For Project Officer Travelling To Baffin
Item 4: Returns To Oral Questions
Item 4: Returns To Oral Questions

Page 555

Don Morin Tu Nedhe

Thank you, Madam Speaker. I have a return to an oral question asked by Mr. Dennis Patterson on October 13th about the reason for a project officer travelling to the Baffin. The project officer did travel to the Baffin region several times. However, he did not travel specifically for the window replacement project. During 1992 and 1993, the project officer from Yellowknife travelled to the region for a number of projects in Cape Dorset, Pond Inlet, and Lake Harbour. During one of these trips, he was involved in this project, specifically to resolve the deficiencies with the major contract. Then the project was handled by the Baffin regional office for tendering and contract administration.

Return To Question 127-12(6): Reason For Project Officer Travelling To Baffin
Item 4: Returns To Oral Questions
Item 4: Returns To Oral Questions

Page 555

The Speaker Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Item 4, returns to oral questions. Item 5, recognition of visitors in the gallery. Item 6, oral questions. The honourable Member for Kitikmeot, Mr. Ng.

Question 260-12(6): Problems With Coppermine's Water Supply
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 555

Kelvin Ng Kitikmeot

Thank you, Madam Speaker. Earlier in my Member's statement, I raised the issue of water supply problems in the community of Coppermine. As the Department of Public Works and Services maintains the water supply, I would like to ask the Minister of Public Works and Services if he's aware of the problem and what the particular problem is in the community of Coppermine. Thank you.

Question 260-12(6): Problems With Coppermine's Water Supply
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 555

The Speaker Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Thank you. Minister of Public Works and Services, Mr. Morin.

Return To Question 260-12(6): Problems With Coppermine's Water Supply
Question 260-12(6): Problems With Coppermine's Water Supply
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 556

Don Morin Tu Nedhe

Thank you, Madam Speaker. The Member's statement is correct, there is a problem with fresh water in Coppermine. Coppermine has been without water, to my understanding, but they do have fresh water again since this morning. The high tide brings salt water in and the pump house is too close to the mouth of the river; that seems to create a problem.

I will commit to the Member that I will work with the Minister of MACA to try to solve this problem as soon as possible. In the interim, the hamlet of Coppermine has been supplied with portable water pumps and hoses in case this problem continues. Thank you.

Return To Question 260-12(6): Problems With Coppermine's Water Supply
Question 260-12(6): Problems With Coppermine's Water Supply
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 556

The Speaker Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Supplementary, Mr. Ng.

Supplementary To Question 260-12(6): Problems With Coppermine's Water Supply
Question 260-12(6): Problems With Coppermine's Water Supply
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 556

Kelvin Ng Kitikmeot

Thank you, Madam Speaker. I understand there is a back-up portable pump system in the community and Public Works has undertaken to use it. But my understanding, from talking to people in the community, is that it is ineffective. I would like to ask the Minister if he's aware of that situation and if he could address it. Thank you.

Supplementary To Question 260-12(6): Problems With Coppermine's Water Supply
Question 260-12(6): Problems With Coppermine's Water Supply
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 556

The Speaker Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Thank you. Minister of Public Works and Services, Mr. Morin.

Further Return To Question 260-12(6): Problems With Coppermine's Water Supply
Question 260-12(6): Problems With Coppermine's Water Supply
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 556

Don Morin Tu Nedhe

Thank you, Madam Speaker. The information I have is that Public Works and Services does have a pump and hoses, the necessary equipment to get fresh water into the community now. If it is ineffective, I will move immediately to try to make it effective, so the community is supplied with fresh water. Thank you.

Further Return To Question 260-12(6): Problems With Coppermine's Water Supply
Question 260-12(6): Problems With Coppermine's Water Supply
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 556

The Speaker Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Thank you. Supplementary, Mr. Ng.

Supplementary To Question 260-12(6): Problems With Coppermine's Water Supply
Question 260-12(6): Problems With Coppermine's Water Supply
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 556

Kelvin Ng Kitikmeot

I understand and appreciate that the back-up system will address the immediate needs. In the long-term though, have the problems with the design and location of the existing facility been assessed by his department? Thank you.

Supplementary To Question 260-12(6): Problems With Coppermine's Water Supply
Question 260-12(6): Problems With Coppermine's Water Supply
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 556

The Speaker Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Minister of Public Works and Services, Mr. Morin.

Further Return To Question 260-12(6): Problems With Coppermine's Water Supply
Question 260-12(6): Problems With Coppermine's Water Supply
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 556

Don Morin Tu Nedhe

Thank you, Madam Speaker. I don't know exactly what Public Works has done with MACA and the community to address the situation. We all know that communities do need a fresh water supply; it is one of the most important things in a community. We will work with the

Minister of MACA and the community of Coppermine to try to address the problem as soon as possible. Thank you.

Further Return To Question 260-12(6): Problems With Coppermine's Water Supply
Question 260-12(6): Problems With Coppermine's Water Supply
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 556

The Speaker Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Thank you. Item 6, oral questions. The honourable Member for Inuvik, Mr. Koe.

Question 261-12(6): Notification Of Awg 1998 Site Selection
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 556

Fred Koe Inuvik

Mahsi, Madam Speaker. Yesterday, the people of the Northwest Territories and the Yukon were notified, through CBC Radio from Whitehorse, about the decision to award the 1998 Arctic Winter Games to Yellowknife. This information was relayed through the radio by Gerry Thicke from Whitehorse. Gerry is seemingly the spokesperson for the international Arctic Winter Games bid committee.

I have a question for the Minister of Municipal and Community Affairs. Since this government is one of the biggest financial contributors to the Arctic Winter Games, was this government, through the Minister's office, given any written notification of the decision made by the Arctic Winter Games International Bid Committee?

Question 261-12(6): Notification Of Awg 1998 Site Selection
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 556

The Speaker Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Thank you. Minister of Municipal and Community Affairs, Ms. Mike.

Return To Question 261-12(6): Notification Of Awg 1998 Site Selection
Question 261-12(6): Notification Of Awg 1998 Site Selection
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 556

Rebecca Mike Baffin Central

Thank you, Madam Speaker. I am not aware if the government was made aware, through written documentation, that our representatives would not participate in this process. Thank you.

Return To Question 261-12(6): Notification Of Awg 1998 Site Selection
Question 261-12(6): Notification Of Awg 1998 Site Selection
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 556

The Speaker Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Supplementary, Mr. Koe.

Supplementary To Question 261-12(6): Notification Of Awg 1998 Site Selection
Question 261-12(6): Notification Of Awg 1998 Site Selection
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 556

Fred Koe Inuvik

I wasn't asking whether or not our representatives, GNWT appointees, participated. I was just wondering if we received any written notification of the decision. My supplementary is, to your understanding, was any written notification of the decision given to the Northwest Territories' representatives on the international committee. Yesterday, you stated that these representatives were appointed by this government. Were they given any written notification of the decision made by the international bid committee?

Supplementary To Question 261-12(6): Notification Of Awg 1998 Site Selection
Question 261-12(6): Notification Of Awg 1998 Site Selection
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 556

The Speaker Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Thank you. Minister of Municipal and Community Affairs, Ms. Mike.

Further Return To Question 261-12(6): Notification Of Awg 1998 Site Selection
Question 261-12(6): Notification Of Awg 1998 Site Selection
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 556

Rebecca Mike Baffin Central

Thank you, Madam Speaker. I am not aware if they were given written notification. But I do know that last year during the Arctic Winter Games in the Slave Lake, they were there when the discussion and the decision took place. I will look into it and provide the Member with the information he is asking about. Thank you.

Further Return To Question 261-12(6): Notification Of Awg 1998 Site Selection
Question 261-12(6): Notification Of Awg 1998 Site Selection
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 556

The Speaker Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Supplementary, Mr. Koe.

Supplementary To Question 261-12(6): Notification Of Awg 1998 Site Selection
Question 261-12(6): Notification Of Awg 1998 Site Selection
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 557

Fred Koe Inuvik

Mahsi. This government has two appointees to the international Arctic Winter Games committee; one of these is Don Cooper. It is my understanding that Mr. Cooper is also the president of the Arctic Winter Games International Committee. I would like to know if Mr. Cooper, in his role as president of the international committee, notified this government of the decision to award the games to Yellowknife before the announcement was made on CBC Radio.

Supplementary To Question 261-12(6): Notification Of Awg 1998 Site Selection
Question 261-12(6): Notification Of Awg 1998 Site Selection
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 557

The Speaker Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Thank you. Minister of Municipal and Community Affairs, Ms. Mike.

Further Return To Question 261-12(6): Notification Of Awg 1998 Site Selection
Question 261-12(6): Notification Of Awg 1998 Site Selection
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 557

Rebecca Mike Baffin Central

Thank you, Madam Speaker. Not to my knowledge.

Further Return To Question 261-12(6): Notification Of Awg 1998 Site Selection
Question 261-12(6): Notification Of Awg 1998 Site Selection
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 557

The Speaker Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Thank you. Final supplementary, Mr. Koe.

Supplementary To Question 261-12(6): Notification Of Awg 1998 Site Selection
Question 261-12(6): Notification Of Awg 1998 Site Selection
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 557

Fred Koe Inuvik

There was a bid evaluation process, so I assume that there would be a written report on how the decision was made. So my supplementary to the Minister is, would the Minister make an effort to get a written report on the decision made by the Arctic Winter Games International Committee and provide that report to this House? Mahsi.

Supplementary To Question 261-12(6): Notification Of Awg 1998 Site Selection
Question 261-12(6): Notification Of Awg 1998 Site Selection
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 557

The Speaker Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Thank you. Minister of Municipal and Community Affairs, Ms. Mike.

Further Return To Question 261-12(6): Notification Of Awg 1998 Site Selection
Question 261-12(6): Notification Of Awg 1998 Site Selection
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 557

Rebecca Mike Baffin Central

Thank you, Madam Speaker. I will.

Further Return To Question 261-12(6): Notification Of Awg 1998 Site Selection
Question 261-12(6): Notification Of Awg 1998 Site Selection
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 557

The Speaker Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Thank you. Item 6, oral questions. The honourable Member for Yellowknife Frame Lake, Mr. Dent.

Question 262-12(6): Agreement Re Sir John Franklin Transfer
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 557

Charles Dent Yellowknife Frame Lake

Thank you, Madam Speaker. Madam Speaker, as I mentioned earlier in my Member's statement, I understand the Minister of Education is reluctant to sign a memorandum of agreement covering issues related to the transfer of responsibility for Sir John Franklin High School with Yellowknife Education District No. 1. Could the Minister explain why he does not want to sign such an agreement?

Question 262-12(6): Agreement Re Sir John Franklin Transfer
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 557

The Speaker Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Thank you. Minister of Education, Culture and Employment, Mr. Nerysoo.

Return To Question 262-12(6): Agreement Re Sir John Franklin Transfer
Question 262-12(6): Agreement Re Sir John Franklin Transfer
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 557

Richard Nerysoo Mackenzie Delta

Thank you, Madam Speaker. Just so that the honourable Member is knowledgeable, we have signed already a memorandum of agreement that deals with the issues of concern between the Yellowknife Education District No. 1 and this government. What came from the last proposal that was submitted to us was a guarantee of capital expenditures.

Madam Speaker, it has been quite clear, and suggested to me, that we cannot commit other governments to financial expenditures. In fact, the Standing Committee on Finance has made it quite clear on a number of occasions that we should not be doing those kinds of things.

Return To Question 262-12(6): Agreement Re Sir John Franklin Transfer
Question 262-12(6): Agreement Re Sir John Franklin Transfer
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 557

The Speaker Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Thank you. Supplementary, Mr. Dent.

Supplementary To Question 262-12(6): Agreement Re Sir John Franklin Transfer
Question 262-12(6): Agreement Re Sir John Franklin Transfer
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 557

Charles Dent Yellowknife Frame Lake

Supplementary, Madam Speaker. The Minister just mentioned the memorandum of agreement had been signed. It was my understanding that a letter had been sent from the Minister's office, so I'm not sure it was an actual memorandum of understanding. I may have misunderstood that.

Madam Speaker, notwithstanding the Minister saying that future governments cannot be committed, there have been long-term agreements signed. For instance, a block funding agreement with Yellowknife has been signed which goes into years beyond the first year in which it is signed.

District No. 1 is looking for a commitment from the Minister that they will not be left with an expensive bill for operating or maintaining Sir John after the transfer. My question is, will the Minister commit to meet with the public school board to see if they can come to an agreement or an understanding on that issue so that we can have some signed agreement between the two parties on this issue.

Supplementary To Question 262-12(6): Agreement Re Sir John Franklin Transfer
Question 262-12(6): Agreement Re Sir John Franklin Transfer
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 557

The Speaker Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Thank you. Minister of Education, Culture and Employment, Mr. Nerysoo.

Further Return To Question 262-12(6): Agreement Re Sir John Franklin Transfer
Question 262-12(6): Agreement Re Sir John Franklin Transfer
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 557

Richard Nerysoo Mackenzie Delta

Thank you, Madam Speaker. Yes, I will make that commitment.

Further Return To Question 262-12(6): Agreement Re Sir John Franklin Transfer
Question 262-12(6): Agreement Re Sir John Franklin Transfer
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 557

The Speaker Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Thank you. Supplementary, Mr. Dent.

Supplementary To Question 262-12(6): Agreement Re Sir John Franklin Transfer
Question 262-12(6): Agreement Re Sir John Franklin Transfer
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 557

Charles Dent Yellowknife Frame Lake

Supplementary, Madam Speaker. I thank the Minister for that commitment. Madam Speaker, Yellowknifers are concerned not only with the transfer of Sir John but, as I pointed out in my Member's statement, the equitable funding of education in Yellowknife. I would like to ask the Minister what steps he is taking in order to make funding of schools in Yellowknife and in the rest of the Northwest Territories more equitable for people who pay property taxes towards school funding.

Supplementary To Question 262-12(6): Agreement Re Sir John Franklin Transfer
Question 262-12(6): Agreement Re Sir John Franklin Transfer
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 557

The Speaker Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Minister of Education, Culture and Employment, Mr. Nerysoo.

Further Return To Question 262-12(6): Agreement Re Sir John Franklin Transfer
Question 262-12(6): Agreement Re Sir John Franklin Transfer
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 558

Richard Nerysoo Mackenzie Delta

Thank you, Madam Speaker. What I can indicate to the honourable Member is that has been the normal case; we're treating all boards and divisional boards as fairly as we can in terms of the formula. There are a number of issues that are outstanding, of course, Madam Speaker, on the matter of the transfer of Sir John High School: the whole issue of staffing, O and M, and the whole issue of capital expenditures in future. I do hope, Madam Speaker, that prior to coming to a final conclusion on these issues, we can reach a fair, reasonable agreement that recognizes that we're not prepared to -- at least as a government and myself as a Minister -- lay the financial burden that the honourable Member is concerned about, including the remarks that he made in his statement.

Further Return To Question 262-12(6): Agreement Re Sir John Franklin Transfer
Question 262-12(6): Agreement Re Sir John Franklin Transfer
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 558

The Speaker Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Thank you. Item 6, oral questions. The honourable Member for Nahendeh, Mr. Antoine.

Question 263-12(6): Telecommunication Services For Unserviced Communities
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 558

Jim Antoine Nahendeh

Mahsi, Madam Speaker. I would like to direct this question to the Minister responsible for Public Works and Services. It's with regard to the statement I made earlier today about communications, specifically telephone service and fax service into the small communities that I represent and into other areas, there are some other communities besides mine that require these types of services. I would like to ask the Minister if there has been any communication at all with NorthwesTel with regard to the requests that I've made and the communities have made with regard to improving and increasing the communications services into these communities. Mahsi.

Question 263-12(6): Telecommunication Services For Unserviced Communities
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 558

The Speaker Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Thank you. Minister of Public Works and Services, Mr. Morin.

Return To Question 263-12(6): Telecommunications Services For Unserviced Communities
Question 263-12(6): Telecommunication Services For Unserviced Communities
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 558

Don Morin Tu Nedhe

Thank you, Madam Speaker. The Department of Public Works and Services has the responsibility for dealing with NorthwesTel on this issue. The Members had requested a meeting with NorthwesTel. I have arranged that meeting for November 15th, and I've signed off the letters to those Members who represent communities that are unserviced.

Through CRTC hearings that were held in the Northwest Territories, we did take a presentation to those hearings: that we supported the concept of a general surcharge to all NorthwesTel customers to pay for the service going into these unserviced communities. They had come back with CRTC's final decision on this matter, or it's expected soon. But the proposed schedule that NorthwesTel has come up with is Snare Lake to have telephones in 1994-95; Colville Lake, 1995-96; Jean Marie River, 1996-97; Nahanni Butte, 1995-96; Trout Lake, 1996-97; Kakisa, 1996-97. That's what NorthwesTel is proposing and that's basically what we'll discuss with the president of NorthwesTel on November 15th with the Members. Thank you.

Return To Question 263-12(6): Telecommunications Services For Unserviced Communities
Question 263-12(6): Telecommunication Services For Unserviced Communities
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 558

The Speaker Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Thank you. Item 6, oral questions. The honourable Member for Yellowknife North, Mr. Ballantyne.

Question 264-12(6): Innovative Fund Raising For Stanton Hospital
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 558

Michael Ballantyne Yellowknife North

Thank you, Madam Speaker. I have a question for the Minister of Health. Last night, Madam Speaker, I watched, with interest, a news show on television showing the very innovative and imaginative ways that hospitals across the country are raising money. There was an example of a Tim Hortons outlet in one hospital. There are other retail stores in hospitals. My question to the Minister of Health...Here in Yellowknife, it's my understanding that all we have is an American-based catering company, so we probably have some room for imagination. Has the Stanton Yellowknife Hospital looked at any innovative ways of raising money within the hospital?

Question 264-12(6): Innovative Fund Raising For Stanton Hospital
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 558

The Speaker Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Minister of Health, Madam Premier.

Return To Question 264-12(6): Innovative Fund Raising For Stanton Hospital
Question 264-12(6): Innovative Fund Raising For Stanton Hospital
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 558

Nellie Cournoyea Nunakput

Madam Speaker, when we were considering the new chairman of the Stanton territorial hospital, one of the discussions I had with the now chairman was to try to find those innovative approaches to finding extra funds and financing some of the projects in the Stanton territorial hospital. Given the background of the chairman, I believe that with his energy and his innovative ideas that he has demonstrated in his everyday life, hopefully that can be transferred in inspiring the board to look at these innovative ways. Thank you, Madam Speaker.

Return To Question 264-12(6): Innovative Fund Raising For Stanton Hospital
Question 264-12(6): Innovative Fund Raising For Stanton Hospital
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 558

The Speaker Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Thank you. Supplementary, Mr. Dent...Mr. Ballantyne.

---Laughter

Supplementary To Question 264-12(6): Innovative Fund Raising For Stanton Hospital
Question 264-12(6): Innovative Fund Raising For Stanton Hospital
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 558

Michael Ballantyne Yellowknife North

We look a lot alike, Madam Speaker.

---Laughter

I thank the Minister for that response. It was interesting because the one example was the hospital which was running a Tim Hortons. For the first time ever, I saw a situation where the patients were all happy because they could actually go to Tim Hortons. The hospital was making a ton of money, the administration was happy, it was one of those win, win, win situations. I wonder if the Minister could give assurance that she will discuss with the new chairman of the board some of these imaginative approaches to hospital care. Thank you.

Supplementary To Question 264-12(6): Innovative Fund Raising For Stanton Hospital
Question 264-12(6): Innovative Fund Raising For Stanton Hospital
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 558

The Speaker Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Thank you. Minister of Health, Madam Premier.

Further Return To Question 264-12(6): Innovative Fund Raising For Stanton Hospital
Question 264-12(6): Innovative Fund Raising For Stanton Hospital
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 559

Nellie Cournoyea Nunakput

Madam Speaker, I believe that in addition to the Stanton hospital, some of the rationale behind the formation of health boards is to give the independence to take on some of those innovative ideas, so that the total reliance on government dollars doesn't always continue; that there would be opportunities to explore other ways of doing particularly special projects. I believe that certainly with the Stanton territorial hospital, these discussions will be ongoing. I believe that, given there are some very strong Members of this Legislative Assembly, they may themselves, even though they're not on the board, lend some positive ideas to the Stanton board. I don't think that everyone has all the answers, but any feedback that they can get would be very helpful. Thank you, Madam Speaker.

Further Return To Question 264-12(6): Innovative Fund Raising For Stanton Hospital
Question 264-12(6): Innovative Fund Raising For Stanton Hospital
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 559

The Speaker Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Thank you. Item 6, oral questions. The honourable Member for Deh Cho, Mr. Gargan.

Further Return To Question 264-12(6): Innovative Fund Raising For Stanton Hospital
Question 264-12(6): Innovative Fund Raising For Stanton Hospital
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 559

Samuel Gargan Deh Cho

Thank you, Madam Speaker. Madam Speaker, the Minister gave me a reply for the 1998 Arctic Winter Games host community selection, and she did say that she can safely assume that the international committee was aware and considered any new infrastructure that was expected to take place for Inuvik. I would like to ask the Minister...The town of Inuvik is getting a brand spanking new arena; Inuvik is getting money for a community sports field; Inuvik is getting money for outdoor recreation trails; Inuvik is getting money for the renovation of Aurora Campus; Inuvik...Well, that's good enough.

Further Return To Question 264-12(6): Innovative Fund Raising For Stanton Hospital
Question 264-12(6): Innovative Fund Raising For Stanton Hospital
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 559

An Hon. Member

We get the picture.

Further Return To Question 264-12(6): Innovative Fund Raising For Stanton Hospital
Question 264-12(6): Innovative Fund Raising For Stanton Hospital
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 559

Samuel Gargan Deh Cho

You also have two claimant groups: the Inuvialuit Development Corporation and the regional government there. So my question then is, is the committee aware of these new infrastructures that are taking place?

Further Return To Question 264-12(6): Innovative Fund Raising For Stanton Hospital
Question 264-12(6): Innovative Fund Raising For Stanton Hospital
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 559

The Speaker Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Mr. Gargan, you may want to rephrase your question. According to our rules, questions posed to the Ministers should be basically under the knowledge of the Minister responsible for the particular department. It's going to be difficult for me to determine the Minister of MACA having that knowledge of the committee, which I believe the committee should have the knowledge of as opposed to the Minister of MACA, when they made the decision. So I would like to ask if you could rephrase your question, taking that into consideration.

Question 265-12(6): Awg Selection Committee's Knowledge Of Inuvik Infrastructure
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 559

Samuel Gargan Deh Cho

I will just make reference to her own department, then, Municipal and Community Affairs. The Minister is aware that the new infrastructures are happening in Inuvik. Has the international Arctic Winter Games committee been made aware of these, because in your statement you said you can safely assume. I would like to know more precisely whether, in order for the Arctic Winter Games committee to deliberate, you said these things are happening.

Question 265-12(6): Awg Selection Committee's Knowledge Of Inuvik Infrastructure
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 559

The Speaker Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Thank you. Minister of Municipal and Community Affairs, Ms. Mike.

Return To Question 265-12(6): Awg Selection Committee's Knowledge Of Inuvik Infrastructure
Question 265-12(6): Awg Selection Committee's Knowledge Of Inuvik Infrastructure
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 559

Rebecca Mike Baffin Central

Madam Speaker, my department informs me that they worked very closely all summer long with the Inuvik planning committee to host the 1998 games. The Arctic Winter Games selection committee was made aware of what Inuvik has to offer, and that was one of the reasons why this really surprised all of us; that they ended up not getting the award to host the Arctic Winter Games in 1998. Thank you.

Return To Question 265-12(6): Awg Selection Committee's Knowledge Of Inuvik Infrastructure
Question 265-12(6): Awg Selection Committee's Knowledge Of Inuvik Infrastructure
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 559

The Speaker Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Thank you. Supplementary, Mr. Gargan.

Supplementary To Question 265-12(6): Awg Selection Committee's Knowledge Of Inuvik Infrastructure
Question 265-12(6): Awg Selection Committee's Knowledge Of Inuvik Infrastructure
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 559

Samuel Gargan Deh Cho

Madam Speaker, I would like to ask...Winter sports doesn't require a lot of infrastructure. It's winter, most of it is done fairly easily. So I would like to ask exactly how much money is required in order for a community to put in the infrastructure. Inuvik is going to have three gyms. They already have one arena and they're going to get a new one, I believe, this year. So I think all the extra facilities are there. I'm just wondering how much more is required in order for the community to have gotten it.

Supplementary To Question 265-12(6): Awg Selection Committee's Knowledge Of Inuvik Infrastructure
Question 265-12(6): Awg Selection Committee's Knowledge Of Inuvik Infrastructure
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 559

The Speaker Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Minister of Municipal and Community Affairs, Ms. Mike.

Further Return To Question 265-12(6): Awg Selection Committee's Knowledge Of Inuvik Infrastructure
Question 265-12(6): Awg Selection Committee's Knowledge Of Inuvik Infrastructure
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 559

Rebecca Mike Baffin Central

Thank you, Madam Speaker. There are general criteria that the international committee uses for guidelines; I don't know to what extent they use it in evaluating communities. Since I don't have the inside information of the committee's decision in arriving at the decision they made, I could provide the...I'm not even sure if the requirement for facilities was one of the guidelines, but I could provide the Member with a list of the facilities that are available and the facilities that were planned to be built as of this winter. Thank you.

Further Return To Question 265-12(6): Awg Selection Committee's Knowledge Of Inuvik Infrastructure
Question 265-12(6): Awg Selection Committee's Knowledge Of Inuvik Infrastructure
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 559

The Speaker Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Thank you. Item 6, oral questions. The honourable Member for Inuvik, Mr. Koe.

Question 266-12(6): Rental Arrears Owed To Housing Associations
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 559

Fred Koe Inuvik

Mahsi, Madam Speaker. I have a question for the Minister of the Housing Corporation. Most of us are aware that there's a large amount of rental arrears owed by tenants to the various housing associations. Can the Minister give us an indication as to the magnitude of these arrears owed to the Northwest Territories Housing Corporation?

Question 266-12(6): Rental Arrears Owed To Housing Associations
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 559

The Speaker Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Minister of Housing, Mr. Morin.

Return To Question 266-12(6): Rental Arrears Owed To Housing Associations
Question 266-12(6): Rental Arrears Owed To Housing Associations
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 560

Don Morin Tu Nedhe

Thank you, Madam Speaker. I cannot give the Member the exact amount of arrears, but I know it does run into millions of dollars. We are working to try to adjust the arrears issue. In some cases, we have people who have passed away who are still on the books as owing the Housing Corporation rent. We have some arrears that are 15 or 20 years old. So I have instructed the department to put together a paper on how to address the arrears, what arrears should be written off and what shouldn't so I can take that to Cabinet for approval. Thank you.

Return To Question 266-12(6): Rental Arrears Owed To Housing Associations
Question 266-12(6): Rental Arrears Owed To Housing Associations
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 560

The Speaker Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Supplementary, Mr. Koe.

Supplementary To Question 266-12(6): Rental Arrears Owed To Housing Associations
Question 266-12(6): Rental Arrears Owed To Housing Associations
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 560

Fred Koe Inuvik

Mahsi. As was mentioned, some of these arrears have been around for a long time, and I'm sure some were incurred by people when they were younger and less stable. But today, a lot of people tend to grow up, their lifestyles change, they may have responsible jobs, they may have families, but because of outstanding debts incurred quite a few years ago, and then the interest accruing on these debts, some of these people have no chance of ever paying these off. This debt causes these people to never be able to qualify for the existing housing home ownership programs or for conventional mortgages. You mentioned you're investigating ways to write off some of these debts. What's the status of that investigation?

Supplementary To Question 266-12(6): Rental Arrears Owed To Housing Associations
Question 266-12(6): Rental Arrears Owed To Housing Associations
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 560

The Speaker Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Minister responsible for the Housing Corporation, Mr. Morin.

Further Return To Question 266-12(6): Rental Arrears Owed To Housing Associations
Question 266-12(6): Rental Arrears Owed To Housing Associations
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 560

Don Morin Tu Nedhe

Thank you, Madam Speaker. I know that when some of us were younger we were less stable, but we are older and wiser now and able to plan our future. A lot of people, too, have gone through drug and alcohol rehabilitation to straighten out their lives, they have a family to raise and they want to get into their own homes. It has been brought to the attention of my office that they are in need of housing, they are quite willing and able to pay for housing programs, but they are deemed ineligible because they are in arrears with the Housing Corporation.

I agree with the Member that we have to address it and we are trying to move as quickly as possible. Hopefully, we should have that paper taken to Cabinet before the end of the fiscal year. Thank you.

Further Return To Question 266-12(6): Rental Arrears Owed To Housing Associations
Question 266-12(6): Rental Arrears Owed To Housing Associations
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 560

The Speaker Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Supplementary, Mr. Koe.

Supplementary To Question 266-12(6): Rental Arrears Owed To Housing Associations
Question 266-12(6): Rental Arrears Owed To Housing Associations
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 560

Fred Koe Inuvik

Mahsi, Madam Speaker, and I thank the Minister for that response. There is another category of people that, more and more, are doing different things to try to advance themselves. These are students. Because of the advancement of adult education in the communities and the push for home ownership, some people have taken on debt to obtain a home. Now, because they are enrolled as students in certain programs, they are required to move. In some cases, they have to give up their homes. But, if they don't pay off the debt, this follows them around for life.

Is this category of people, students, being looked at in terms of your review?

Supplementary To Question 266-12(6): Rental Arrears Owed To Housing Associations
Question 266-12(6): Rental Arrears Owed To Housing Associations
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 560

The Speaker Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Minister responsible for the Housing Corporation, Mr. Morin.

Further Return To Question 266-12(6): Rental Arrears Owed To Housing Associations
Question 266-12(6): Rental Arrears Owed To Housing Associations
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 560

Don Morin Tu Nedhe

Thank you, Madam Speaker. This issue of students has been raised to me many times and in many different areas of the Northwest Territories. For example, if they were living in public housing today and they wanted to go to Arctic College in Iqaluit or Fort Smith, they would have to give up their public housing and move there. A lot of people don't want to do that because there is a long waiting list for public housing.

But, under the new rent scale, the housing authority would sub-lease their unit while they are going to school, so they don't have the cost of that unit and they get their unit back. And also, through the access home ownership programs, their payments would drop right down to the minimum because they are living on student financial assistance and that assistance would not be assessed as income because it is only enough money for them to go to school and live.

The other program we have a major problem with still is the rural and remote housing program, a CMHC program that we administer. A lot of those houses are in the Delta area. In this program, people were asked to pay 25 per cent of their salary for 25 years, or not longer. That program is very hard for us to administer. At the present time, I am getting a legal question answered from the Department of Justice to see whether or not we can give that program back to CMHC, because CMHC has been very inflexible and has not agreed to the recommendations we have put forward to them. Thank you.

Further Return To Question 266-12(6): Rental Arrears Owed To Housing Associations
Question 266-12(6): Rental Arrears Owed To Housing Associations
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 560

The Speaker Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Supplementary, Mr. Koe.

Supplementary To Question 266-12(6): Rental Arrears Owed To Housing Associations
Question 266-12(6): Rental Arrears Owed To Housing Associations
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 560

Fred Koe Inuvik

Mahsi. On the issue of the rural and remote program, you mentioned that you would like to give this back to CMHC. But there are still some people who have some of these units and debts they have incurred. That debt now prevents them from entering new programs because of the black mark on their credit. I'm wondering if we could advance the review of this to help those people who have these long, outstanding debts from these old housing programs.

Supplementary To Question 266-12(6): Rental Arrears Owed To Housing Associations
Question 266-12(6): Rental Arrears Owed To Housing Associations
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 560

The Speaker Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Minister responsible for the Housing Corporation, Mr. Morin.

Further Return To Question 266-12(6): Rental Arrears Owed To Housing Associations
Question 266-12(6): Rental Arrears Owed To Housing Associations
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 561

Don Morin Tu Nedhe

Thank you, Madam Speaker. We're looking into returning that program as well as the debt to CMHC. If they don't want to be flexible with their program, then they can go through the headache of collecting money themselves, rather than putting us through it. Possibly what we can look at is something like the SHAG program, an old program; the very first home ownership program the Housing Corporation ever came up with. If you were in the SHAG program, then you are still eligible for an access program. People got $10,000 and $15,000 in those days, that was it. They built inadequate housing. So, maybe we could look at addressing the issue the Member brought up by making people eligible, even though they were in the old program. Thank you.

Further Return To Question 266-12(6): Rental Arrears Owed To Housing Associations
Question 266-12(6): Rental Arrears Owed To Housing Associations
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 561

The Speaker Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Item 6, oral questions. The honourable Member for Baffin South, Mr. Pudlat.

Question 267-12(6): Assistance In Preparation Of Income Tax Returns
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 561

Kenoayoak Pudlat Baffin South

(Translation) Thank you, Madam Speaker. I would like to direct my question to the Minister of Finance, regarding income tax returns. Of those people who have to fill out income tax forms, there are a lot of unilingual people. They have problems filling out forms. A lot of people have questions with respect to this. Many often have to deal with income tax accountants. I wonder if there can be a process for unilingual people who need assistance with their income tax forms, so they can deal with people who can help them. Can these problems be corrected for those unilingual people who need assistance? Thank you.

Question 267-12(6): Assistance In Preparation Of Income Tax Returns
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 561

The Speaker Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Minister of Finance, Mr. Pollard.

Return To Question 267-12(6): Assistance In Preparation Of Income Tax Returns
Question 267-12(6): Assistance In Preparation Of Income Tax Returns
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 561

John Pollard Hay River

Thank you, Madam Speaker. Good afternoon. Madam Speaker, I have raised the issue of unilingual people, particularly in Mr. Pudlat's area, with the Minister of National Revenue. I went as far as to provide a copy to the Minister of letters that I have sent to Mr. Pudlat in syllabics, so he would better understand.

What happened last year is that the people of the federal government went into some of the small communities and trained people in the communities to fill in tax forms. I'm not sure that they paid particular attention to the unilingual people in those communities. So, as we are making arrangements with them to go into the smaller communities again for the next fiscal year, I will draw their attention to the fact that they should look at the unilingual aspect of some of the people in the communities. Thank you.

Return To Question 267-12(6): Assistance In Preparation Of Income Tax Returns
Question 267-12(6): Assistance In Preparation Of Income Tax Returns
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 561

The Speaker Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Thank you. Supplementary, Mr. Pudlat.

Supplementary To Question 267-12(6): Assistance In Preparation Of Income Tax Returns
Question 267-12(6): Assistance In Preparation Of Income Tax Returns
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 561

Kenoayoak Pudlat Baffin South

(Translation) Thank you, Madam Speaker. I appreciate his response. A lot of times the returns of unilingual people don't get in on time. When their returns don't get in as they should, they start getting questions from Revenue Canada. So, Madam Speaker, a lot of time the people who are filling in the forms often get calls from Revenue Canada and when the calls come in, they have problems with discussing these things with Revenue Canada. I wonder if there could be a process where someone could help these people who need assistance with interpreting when they discuss things with Revenue Canada.

Supplementary To Question 267-12(6): Assistance In Preparation Of Income Tax Returns
Question 267-12(6): Assistance In Preparation Of Income Tax Returns
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 561

The Speaker Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Thank you. Minister of Finance, Mr. Pollard.

Further Return To Question 267-12(6): Assistance In Preparation Of Income Tax Returns
Question 267-12(6): Assistance In Preparation Of Income Tax Returns
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 561

John Pollard Hay River

Madam Speaker, that's a good point. If someone is calling from southern Canada to a unilingual person, obviously, there isn't going to be much information exchanged. I will raise that issue with the federal Minister and we will see if he can do something, either with some support in the community or with regard to having someone, at that time, who could...

Further Return To Question 267-12(6): Assistance In Preparation Of Income Tax Returns
Question 267-12(6): Assistance In Preparation Of Income Tax Returns
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 561

The Speaker Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Sorry, it appears that Mr. Pudlat is not receiving translation. Are you able to hear? Proceed, Mr. Pollard.

Further Return To Question 267-12(6): Assistance In Preparation Of Income Tax Returns
Question 267-12(6): Assistance In Preparation Of Income Tax Returns
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 561

John Pollard Hay River

Madam Speaker, as I was saying, I think Mr. Pudlat has raised a good point. I will raise that with the federal Minister and maybe they can offer some assistance to people, so they can at least be told of the requirements in their own language. Thank you, Madam Speaker.

Further Return To Question 267-12(6): Assistance In Preparation Of Income Tax Returns
Question 267-12(6): Assistance In Preparation Of Income Tax Returns
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 561

The Speaker Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Thank you. Item 6, oral questions. The honourable Member for Yellowknife Centre, Mr. Lewis.

Question 268-12(6): Maca's Involvement In Capital's Site Plan
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 561

Brian Lewis Yellowknife Centre

Thank you, Madam Speaker. My question is to the Minister of Municipal and Community Affairs. Last February, at the Northern Frontier Visitors' Centre, a plan was revealed for the development of a capital city site. In what way is her department involved in developing that plan?

Question 268-12(6): Maca's Involvement In Capital's Site Plan
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 561

The Speaker Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Thank you. Minister of Municipal and Community Affairs, Ms. Mike.

Return To Question 268-12(6): Maca's Involvement In Capital's Site Plan
Question 268-12(6): Maca's Involvement In Capital's Site Plan
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 561

Rebecca Mike Baffin Central

Thank you, Madam Speaker. As Mr. Lewis knows, there have been some problems in this area, especially with the private business people. My department informs me that their participation in this will be to make improvements that are necessary to create opportunities for public involvement, including any final proposals, and to

assess, with much more certainty, the impact of the plan. They will be involved in discussions in this area. Thank you.

Return To Question 268-12(6): Maca's Involvement In Capital's Site Plan
Question 268-12(6): Maca's Involvement In Capital's Site Plan
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 562

The Speaker Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Supplementary, Mr. Lewis.

Supplementary To Question 268-12(6): Maca's Involvement In Capital's Site Plan
Question 268-12(6): Maca's Involvement In Capital's Site Plan
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 562

Brian Lewis Yellowknife Centre

Thank you, Madam Speaker. I think we all agree that the capital site is something we should all be proud of. There has been a lot of work done and people are very happy to see development taking place. However, since this capital plan was proposed to the public and the city of Yellowknife was asked to make some changes so that this plan could become a reality, what is the status of the plan right now? I am talking about the one that was made public in February.

Supplementary To Question 268-12(6): Maca's Involvement In Capital's Site Plan
Question 268-12(6): Maca's Involvement In Capital's Site Plan
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 562

The Speaker Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Minister of Municipal and Community Affairs, Ms. Mike.

Further Return To Question 268-12(6): Maca's Involvement In Capital's Site Plan
Question 268-12(6): Maca's Involvement In Capital's Site Plan
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 562

Rebecca Mike Baffin Central

Thank you, Madam Speaker. There have been some changes in handling this issue. Discussions will include establishing an equal partnership between the city and the GNWT in the management of the capital area and changing the theme of the plan to one of both looking out from the Legislative Assembly building and looking in at the capital area. Thank you.

Further Return To Question 268-12(6): Maca's Involvement In Capital's Site Plan
Question 268-12(6): Maca's Involvement In Capital's Site Plan
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 562

The Speaker Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Thank you. Supplementary, Mr. Lewis.

Supplementary To Question 268-12(6): Maca's Involvement In Capital's Site Plan
Question 268-12(6): Maca's Involvement In Capital's Site Plan
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 562

Brian Lewis Yellowknife Centre

Thank you, Madam Speaker. What time frame does she have in mind so that this process can be completed and eventually have the detailed plan approved by the city council and the Government of the Northwest Territories?

Supplementary To Question 268-12(6): Maca's Involvement In Capital's Site Plan
Question 268-12(6): Maca's Involvement In Capital's Site Plan
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 562

The Speaker Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Thank you. Minister of Municipal and Community Affairs, Ms. Mike.

Further Return To Question 268-12(6): Maca's Involvement In Capital's Site Plan
Question 268-12(6): Maca's Involvement In Capital's Site Plan
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 562

Rebecca Mike Baffin Central

Thank you, Madam Speaker. I am not aware of the time frame, but because of the recent elections that have occurred, my department officials will be meeting with the new mayor and having discussions from there. I will keep the Members of Yellowknife informed of the progress as to where we are with this one. Thank you.

Further Return To Question 268-12(6): Maca's Involvement In Capital's Site Plan
Question 268-12(6): Maca's Involvement In Capital's Site Plan
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 562

The Speaker Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Thank you. Item 6, oral questions. The honourable Member for Natilikmiot.

Further Return To Question 268-12(6): Maca's Involvement In Capital's Site Plan
Question 268-12(6): Maca's Involvement In Capital's Site Plan
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 562

John Ningark Natilikmiot

Thank you, Madam Speaker. Madam Speaker, this is subsequent to my Member's statement regarding the social assistance payments paid to recipients in my area. I have talked to many people in Pelly Bay and Taloyoak regarding the same issue. Many of those recipients are very frustrated. They are saying this new initiative makes life more difficult, as we know it is very difficult for them already. Has the Minister of Health and Social Services done anything so far to deal with the matter, as requested by the people in Pelly Bay and social assistance recipients of Taloyoak? Thank you.

Further Return To Question 268-12(6): Maca's Involvement In Capital's Site Plan
Question 268-12(6): Maca's Involvement In Capital's Site Plan
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 562

The Speaker Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Thank you. Minister of Health and Social Services, Madam Premier.

Further Return To Question 268-12(6): Maca's Involvement In Capital's Site Plan
Question 268-12(6): Maca's Involvement In Capital's Site Plan
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 562

Nellie Cournoyea Nunakput

Madam Speaker, could the Member clarify what specific issue? There are many issues under Health and Social Services from his constituency that we are dealing with. I am not sure specifically what topic he is referring to.

Further Return To Question 268-12(6): Maca's Involvement In Capital's Site Plan
Question 268-12(6): Maca's Involvement In Capital's Site Plan
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 562

The Speaker Jeannie Marie-Jewell

The honourable Member for Natilikmiot, Mr. Ningark.

Question 269-12(6): Difficulties Cashing Social Assistance Cheques In Natilikmiot
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 562

John Ningark Natilikmiot

Thank you, Madam Speaker. I should have been a bit more specific in my question. A few years ago, because of the request by the Kitikmeot Regional Council, the Minister at the time made a policy that people of my riding, namely people of Gjoa Haven, Taloyoak and Pelly Bay, who were receiving social assistance were not allowed to cash social assistance payments fully. They were only allowed to cash very small portions of the social assistance cheques. The rest were vouchers. Has the Minister received any requests from the community of Pelly Bay regarding the same issue? I know people have communicated with her during the past summer. Thank you.

Question 269-12(6): Difficulties Cashing Social Assistance Cheques In Natilikmiot
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 562

The Speaker Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Minister of Health and Social Services, Ms. Cournoyea.

Question 269-12(6): Difficulties Cashing Social Assistance Cheques In Natilikmiot
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 562

Nellie Cournoyea Nunakput

Thank you, Madam Speaker. Yes, I did have that issue raised to me by correspondence. The issue on the voucher option that was suggested by the regional organization was that it should be instituted. Madam Speaker, I will take that as notice because I am not sure exactly where we are with that. I know we were trying to find out where the regional organization suggested that it should go to a voucher system. I will take that as notice.

Question 269-12(6): Difficulties Cashing Social Assistance Cheques In Natilikmiot
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 562

The Speaker Jeannie Marie-Jewell

The question is taken as notice. Item 6, oral questions. The honourable Member for Inuvik, Mr. Koe.

Question 270-12(6): Status Of Informatics Strategy
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 562

Fred Koe Inuvik

Mahsi, Madam Speaker. Madam Speaker, last year, during the budget review, there was considerable discussion about the development of an informatics strategy. In this day and age, even with all the high-tech equipment we have, there is still a lot of paper, files, and there seems to be a lack of storage space, but still information has to flow. Could the Minister of Finance, who is also the chairperson of the Financial Management Board, please advise this House as to what the status is of the informatics strategy?

Question 270-12(6): Status Of Informatics Strategy
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 562

The Speaker Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Thank you. Minister of Finance, Mr. Pollard.

Return To Question 270-12(6): Status Of Informatics Strategy
Question 270-12(6): Status Of Informatics Strategy
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 563

John Pollard Hay River

Thank you, Madam Speaker. Madam Speaker, on September 13th, FMB gave approval to the FMBS to go ahead with its informatics strategy. So far, the senior management committee has been struck. It is comprised of the secretary of the Financial Management Board, the deputy minister of Public Works, the deputy minister of Education, two other deputy ministers and one regional director. They may be on a rotational basis, Madam Speaker.

We are about five weeks into the project right now. They are working to come back to us with information and suggestions on how we can better coordinate our information-gathering system in the Government of the Northwest Territories. Thank you.

Return To Question 270-12(6): Status Of Informatics Strategy
Question 270-12(6): Status Of Informatics Strategy
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 563

The Speaker Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Thank you. Supplementary, Mr. Koe.

Supplementary To Question 270-12(6): Status Of Informatics Strategy
Question 270-12(6): Status Of Informatics Strategy
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 563

Fred Koe Inuvik

Mahsi. Let's hope the committee doesn't get bogged down with information. What's the final target for completion of the report?

Supplementary To Question 270-12(6): Status Of Informatics Strategy
Question 270-12(6): Status Of Informatics Strategy
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 563

The Speaker Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Minister of Finance, Mr. Pollard.

Further Return To Question 270-12(6): Status Of Informatics Strategy
Question 270-12(6): Status Of Informatics Strategy
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 563

John Pollard Hay River

Madam Speaker, there won't particularly be a report from this group of people. These people will be dealing on a daily and weekly basis with departments who want to go ahead with changes in systems or methods and so on. They'll be dealing with the ongoing sorting of what the project should be, how it should be handled and whether it conforms to and fits with the rest of the languages that are being used in the other information systems. Thank you, Madam Speaker.

Further Return To Question 270-12(6): Status Of Informatics Strategy
Question 270-12(6): Status Of Informatics Strategy
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 563

The Speaker Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Thank you. Supplementary, Mr. Koe.

Supplementary To Question 270-12(6): Status Of Informatics Strategy
Question 270-12(6): Status Of Informatics Strategy
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 563

Fred Koe Inuvik

I find that strange. When you are dealing with a complicated system like we have in this government, one has to evaluate and assess what we have and where we want to go. You would think there would be a plan to achieve that target. I'm wondering why there wouldn't be a report or some kind of plan developed to make the changes that are required.

Supplementary To Question 270-12(6): Status Of Informatics Strategy
Question 270-12(6): Status Of Informatics Strategy
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 563

The Speaker Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Thank you. Minister of Finance, Mr. Pollard.

Further Return To Question 270-12(6): Status Of Informatics Strategy
Question 270-12(6): Status Of Informatics Strategy
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 563

John Pollard Hay River

Madam Speaker, so that I don't confuse the House, there was a report done last year that identified the issues that we should address and made recommendations. The first recommendation was that there should be an informatics policy committee and that's the committee I've told the House about. Obviously, they have some targets in mind about what they would like to get accomplished during the different years as we go down the road.

If Members are interested, Madam Speaker, I'll circulate that workplan to Members so they can see the time lines these people are working with. Thank you.

Further Return To Question 270-12(6): Status Of Informatics Strategy
Question 270-12(6): Status Of Informatics Strategy
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 563

The Speaker Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Thank you. Final supplementary, Mr. Koe.

Supplementary To Question 270-12(6): Status Of Informatics Strategy
Question 270-12(6): Status Of Informatics Strategy
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 563

Fred Koe Inuvik

Mahsi. I am looking forward to reviewing that report. Can the Minister give us an estimate of what this whole strategy will cost to implement?

Supplementary To Question 270-12(6): Status Of Informatics Strategy
Question 270-12(6): Status Of Informatics Strategy
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 563

The Speaker Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Thank you. Minister of Finance, Mr. Pollard.

Further Return To Question 270-12(6): Status Of Informatics Strategy
Question 270-12(6): Status Of Informatics Strategy
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 563

John Pollard Hay River

Madam Speaker, when we first started this, we looked at pretty rough numbers of what it would cost to link all the communities of the Northwest Territories and get them all on line. At that time, the rough number was $9 or $10 million, and that was money we didn't have. What we are doing now is, as you heard yesterday, Public Works are doing some things to upgrade in the regions next year with their system. Within their particular areas of responsibility, departments are buying programs, using manuals and buying equipment and so on.

What we have decided to do is this committee will work towards standardizing the dollars already in department's budgets. So, as they are getting new equipment, it is of a certain standard and, as they are developing new programs, those programs will mesh with other departments and other users. That includes the divisional boards, the health boards, and so on and so forth.

If there is a major change to be made, that will be done by supplementary appropriation. But, at the present time, this committee is merely asking departments to spend the money they already have in their budgets in a coordinated and unified fashion. Thank you, Madam Speaker.

Further Return To Question 270-12(6): Status Of Informatics Strategy
Question 270-12(6): Status Of Informatics Strategy
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 563

The Speaker Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Thank you. Item 6, oral questions. The honourable Member for Baffin South, Mr. Pudlat.

Question 271-12(6): Cost Of Living Survey
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 563

Kenoayoak Pudlat Baffin South

(Translation) Thank you, Madam Speaker. I have a question for the Minister of Health and Social Services. I understand that we have a shortage of funds, but people who receive social assistance go through a very difficult time. Has there been a study done to try to find out the difference between the cost of living in the south and the cost of living in the north? Has there been a study of this done by the GNWT? Thank you, Madam Speaker.

Question 271-12(6): Cost Of Living Survey
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 564

The Speaker Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Thank you. Minister of Health and Social Services, Madam Premier.

Return To Question 271-12(6): Cost Of Living Survey
Question 271-12(6): Cost Of Living Survey
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 564

Nellie Cournoyea Nunakput

Madam Speaker, it is my understanding that the formula for social assistance does take into account the cost of living. Thank you.

Return To Question 271-12(6): Cost Of Living Survey
Question 271-12(6): Cost Of Living Survey
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 564

The Speaker Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Thank you. Item 6, oral questions. The honourable Member for Deh Cho, Mr. Gargan.

Question 272-12(6): Policy For Walk-in Freezers
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 564

Samuel Gargan Deh Cho

Thank you, Madam Speaker. Madam Speaker, a few years ago I asked the Minister of Renewable Resources about walk-in freezers for Kakisa. At that time, the then Minister indicated that the Department of Renewable Resources was working with Public Works in order to develop a policy about walk-in freezers. I have waited at least a year and a half now for that to come to a satisfactory conclusion, so we can start having walk-in freezers. I would like to ask the Minister for the status of that. Have you developed any kind of a policy with the Public Works department or did you not deal with it at all?

Question 272-12(6): Policy For Walk-in Freezers
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 564

The Speaker Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Minister of Renewable Resources, Mr. Arngna'naaq.

Return To Question 272-12(6): Policy For Walk-in Freezers
Question 272-12(6): Policy For Walk-in Freezers
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 564

Silas Arngna'naaq Kivallivik

Thank you, Madam Speaker. I would like to thank the honourable Member for asking me a question. It gives me the chance to stretch.

---Laughter

With regard to the community freezers, at the present time we have a position in the Department of Renewable Resources, put in place by the Department of Public Works, to assess walk-in community freezers; where community freezers are in the Northwest Territories. From this information, Madam Speaker, I'm hoping in the new year we will be able to assess the needs and the process in which these freezers would be made available to communities.

At the present time, this person is going into the various communities. Because of the varied needs of the communities, with regard to size and the amount of space required per community, we have to be careful about how we spend our funds on freezers. I'm hoping we will be able to come to a decision paper for Cabinet sometime in April, 1995. Thank you, Madam Speaker.

Return To Question 272-12(6): Policy For Walk-in Freezers
Question 272-12(6): Policy For Walk-in Freezers
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 564

The Speaker Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Thank you. Supplementary, Mr. Gargan.

Supplementary To Question 272-12(6): Policy For Walk-in Freezers
Question 272-12(6): Policy For Walk-in Freezers
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 564

Samuel Gargan Deh Cho

Thank you. I would like to ask the Minister, what is the name of the person who is going to be travelling around doing the assessments, and when can he be expected in Kakisa?

Supplementary To Question 272-12(6): Policy For Walk-in Freezers
Question 272-12(6): Policy For Walk-in Freezers
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 564

The Speaker Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Minister of Renewable Resources, Mr. Arngna'naaq.

Supplementary To Question 272-12(6): Policy For Walk-in Freezers
Question 272-12(6): Policy For Walk-in Freezers
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 564

Silas Arngna'naaq Kivallivik

Madam Speaker, I do not know the name of the person, nor the schedule of the person's travels. I will take the question as notice. Thank you, Madam Speaker.

Supplementary To Question 272-12(6): Policy For Walk-in Freezers
Question 272-12(6): Policy For Walk-in Freezers
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 564

The Speaker Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Thank you. Item 6, oral questions. Item 7, written questions. The honourable Member for Inuvik, Mr. Koe.

Written Question 22-12(6): Arrears Owed To The NWT Housing Corporation
Item 7: Written Questions

Page 564

Fred Koe Inuvik

Mahsi, Madam Speaker. I have a written question for the Minister of the Northwest Territories Housing Corporation.

Would the Minister responsible for the NWT Housing Corporation please advise the House of the following:

What is the amount of arrears owed to the NWT Housing Corporation as of March 31, 1994?

Please provide this information on a community-by-community basis.

Mahsi.

Written Question 22-12(6): Arrears Owed To The NWT Housing Corporation
Item 7: Written Questions

Page 564

The Speaker Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Thank you. Item 7, written questions. The honourable Member for Yellowknife Frame Lake, Mr. Dent.

Written Question 23-12(6): Community Public Health Nurses
Item 7: Written Questions

Page 564

Charles Dent Yellowknife Frame Lake

Thank you, Madam Speaker. Madam Speaker, I have a written question for the Minister of Health and Social Services.

Would the Minister of Health and Social Services please advise this House of the following:

1. Please provide the numbers of public health nurse positions in each community and the population they serve in those communities; and,

2. Have there been any changes in the numbers of public health nurse positions in communities since the transfer of health from the federal government?

Written Question 23-12(6): Community Public Health Nurses
Item 7: Written Questions

Page 564

The Speaker Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Thank you. Item 7, written questions. The honourable Member for High Arctic, Mr. Pudluk.

Written Question 24-12(6): Provision Of Uhf Radios And Gps To Communities
Item 7: Written Questions

Page 564

Ludy Pudluk High Arctic

(Translation) Thank you, Madam Speaker. I have a written question for the Minister of Renewable Resources.

The Department of Renewable Resources provide UHF radios to be used by hunters in the communities. These radios are very useful.

Has the Department of Renewable Resources considered to provide in the future an equipment called GPS? It would be very useful for use by search and rescue services in communities.

Written Question 24-12(6): Provision Of Uhf Radios And Gps To Communities
Item 7: Written Questions

Page 565

The Speaker Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Thank you. Item 7, written questions. The honourable Member for Yellowknife North, Mr. Ballantyne.

Written Question 25-12(6): Sexual Assault And Child Sexual Abuse
Item 7: Written Questions

Page 565

Michael Ballantyne Yellowknife North

Thank you, Madam Speaker. My question is to the Minister of Justice, Mr. Kakfwi.

Could the Minister of Justice please provide this House with the following:

1. The statistics for sexual assaults and child sexual abuse for both charges and convictions during the years 1984 to 1994; and,

2. The programs and services available to the victims of child sexual abuse and sexual assault by the GNWT and by the federal government.

Written Question 25-12(6): Sexual Assault And Child Sexual Abuse
Item 7: Written Questions

Page 565

The Speaker Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Thank you. Item 7, written questions. Item 8, returns to written questions. Item 9, replies to opening address.

Written Question 25-12(6): Sexual Assault And Child Sexual Abuse
Item 7: Written Questions

Page 565

Kelvin Ng Kitikmeot

Point of order.

Written Question 25-12(6): Sexual Assault And Child Sexual Abuse
Item 7: Written Questions

Page 565

The Speaker Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Point of order, Mr. Ng.

Point Of Order

Written Question 25-12(6): Sexual Assault And Child Sexual Abuse
Item 7: Written Questions

Page 565

Kelvin Ng Kitikmeot

Madam Speaker, I rise on a point of order under rule 40, which deals with returns to written questions. Madam Speaker, I tabled Written Question 2-12(6) on October 6th to the Minister of Health and Social Services and the NWT Housing Corporation concerning elders' residences operated by the GNWT. I note that, according to rule 40(4), the government has 21 days to file a return to my question.

I also note, Madam Speaker, that the same rule provides for the government to provide a provisional return if they're not in a position to answer my written question within the 21 days. Madam Speaker, we have now passed the item return to written questions and my reply was not filed, as required by the rules, within 21 days. Therefore, I raise this point of order, as the rules have not been observed and I ask that you make a ruling accordingly, Madam Speaker. Thank you.

Written Question 25-12(6): Sexual Assault And Child Sexual Abuse
Item 7: Written Questions

Page 565

The Speaker Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Thank you. In accordance with our rules, the government does have 21 days and, if the 21 days have lapsed, the government should give an interim reply if the reply is not granted. Therefore, Mr. Ng, you do have a point of order. I will have to ask the Minister of Health and Social Services and the Minister of Housing to reply, in accordance with our rules and make the return to the written question as soon as possible. Thank you.

Item 9, replies to opening address. Item 10, petitions. Item 11, reports of standing and special committees. The honourable Member for Inuvik, Mr. Koe.

Written Question 25-12(6): Sexual Assault And Child Sexual Abuse
Item 7: Written Questions

Page 565

Fred Koe Inuvik

(Microphone turned off)

Written Question 25-12(6): Sexual Assault And Child Sexual Abuse
Item 7: Written Questions

Page 565

The Speaker Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Yes, we will take a 15 minute recess.

---SHORT RECESS

Written Question 25-12(6): Sexual Assault And Child Sexual Abuse
Item 7: Written Questions

Page 565

The Speaker Jeannie Marie-Jewell

I will call the House back to order. Item 11, reports of standing and special committees. The honourable Member for Inuvik, Mr. Koe.

Committee Report 13-12(6): Report On The Elimination Of The Alcohol And Drug Board Of Management
Item 11: Reports Of Standing And Special Committees

Page 565

Fred Koe Inuvik

Mahsi, Madam Speaker. Madam Speaker, today I am very pleased to present the report on the elimination of the Alcohol and Drug Board of Management, prepared by the Standing Committee on Agencies, Boards and Commissions.

Introduction

Alcohol and drug abuse is one of the most serious social problems facing northerners today. As a result, the funding of alcohol and drug programs has always been a sensitive and important issue in the debates of the Legislative Assembly.

Early in the term of the 12th Assembly, the Standing Committee on Agencies, Boards and Commissions selected the Alcohol and Drug Board of Management as one of the government agencies to be reviewed by the committee.

The standing committee considered this matter in meetings in Yellowknife from April 25 to 29, 1994. The Minister of Social Services, the Honourable Rebecca Mike, was unable to appear before the committee. She was represented by her deputy minister, Mr. Ken Lovely, who appeared before the committee on April 26th. The standing committee wishes to acknowledge the input of the deputy minister and thank him for his appearance at the public hearings.

General Observations

Over the past few years, concerns related to Alcohol and Drug Board of Management were raised regularly by Members in the House. Members were concerned that the board was not carrying out its duties and that the government as not giving the board the support necessary to do so.

The government finally eliminated the board at the end of the 1992-93 fiscal year. As a result, there is no formal mechanism available for the Department of Social Services to receive input and recommendations concerning alcohol and drug policies.

The standing committee is disappointed the government eliminated this board without having consulted the Assembly, either as a whole or through this committee. Recent government initiatives to eliminate boards -- most recently, the Denendeh Conservation Board and the Highway Transport Board -- included consultation with this committee. The elimination of the Alcohol and Drug Board of Management should not have taken place without similar consultation.

Committee Members acknowledge that the board's primary purpose, to make recommendations on the distribution of grants and contributions to alcohol and drug programs, has been taken over by the department. While that responsibility may now be elsewhere, the responsibility to provide input to the Minister and the department is one that must still be met.

Further, there was some concern that the department was too interested in numbers and statistics from the alcohol and drug workers and not in the other issues and concerns often raised by the workers. Alcohol and drug counsellors in the communities are the front-line workers in this battle and their input is critical in the development of effective policies to reduce the damage of alcohol and drug use by northerners.

As for the grants and contributions, the standing committee feels that there must be some means of monitoring the effectiveness of those grants. How effective are they in different communities? Are there some programs or communities that are more effective or efficient than others? What can be learned from those effective programs? Committee Members appreciate the department's assurances that program will be better monitored.

The department told the committee that an alcohol and drug strategy would be developed this year by the combined departments of Health and Social Services. The standing committee sees the establishment of mechanisms for input by front-line workers and for monitoring of the effectiveness of grants as an essential part of any alcohol and drug strategy.

Recommendation

The Standing Committee on Agencies, Boards and Commissions recommends that the Department of Health and Social Services complete a comprehensive alcohol and drug strategy and provide it to the committee by December 31, 1994. Further, that the strategy include mechanisms for monitoring the effectiveness of grants and contributions to alcohol and drug societies, and for gathering input from alcohol and drug workers to the department.

Finally, the standing committee agrees with the department that alcohol and drug problems are not so much a cause as they are an effect. The government has limited resources and these resources must be directed so as to have the greatest possible impact on all health and social services issues facing northerners. Directing attention at the causes of alcohol and drug abuse is an admirable goal, and we encourage the government to continue their efforts to fight the roots of the problems facing northerners through a greater emphasis on community mental health. Mahsi cho.

Committee Report 13-12(6): Report On The Elimination Of The Alcohol And Drug Board Of Management
Item 11: Reports Of Standing And Special Committees

Page 566

Some Hon. Members

Hear, hear.

---Applause

Motion To Receive Committee Report 13-12(6) And Move To Committee Of The Whole, Carried

Committee Report 13-12(6): Report On The Elimination Of The Alcohol And Drug Board Of Management
Item 11: Reports Of Standing And Special Committees

Page 566

Fred Koe Inuvik

Madam Speaker, that concludes the report of the Standing Committee on Agencies, Boards and Commissions. Therefore I move, seconded by the honourable Member for Yellowknife Centre, Mr. Lewis, that the report of the Standing Committee on Agencies, Boards and Commissions on the elimination of the Alcohol and Drug Board of Management be received by the Assembly and moved into committee of the whole. Mahsi.

Committee Report 13-12(6): Report On The Elimination Of The Alcohol And Drug Board Of Management
Item 11: Reports Of Standing And Special Committees

Page 566

The Speaker Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Thank you. The motion is in order. To the motion.

Committee Report 13-12(6): Report On The Elimination Of The Alcohol And Drug Board Of Management
Item 11: Reports Of Standing And Special Committees

Page 566

An Hon. Member

Question.

Committee Report 13-12(6): Report On The Elimination Of The Alcohol And Drug Board Of Management
Item 11: Reports Of Standing And Special Committees

Page 566

The Speaker Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Question has been called. All those in favour? All those opposed? Motion is carried.

---Carried

Item 11, reports of standing and special committees. The honourable Member for Deh Cho, in a new dress, Mr. Gargan.

Committee Report 14-12(6): Advisory Committee On Social Housing Report On Taloyoak Meetings, September 23 - 25, 1994
Item 11: Reports Of Standing And Special Committees

Page 566

Samuel Gargan Deh Cho

Thank you, Madam Speaker.

---Laughter

From September 23 to 25, 1994, the Advisory Committee on Social Housing met in Taloyoak. The purpose of this three-day meeting was to review the results of the regional and community consultations regarding the rent scale undertaken over the past few months by the Northwest Territories Housing Corporation. Most of the committee's time was spent on the rent scale and the public feedback on the proposed changes. As well, the committee reviewed public housing, home ownership initiatives, design of public housing, contracting policies and practices, and methods for continuing strong communication and consultation with the public.

Finally, the issues of community transfer and the housing program were discussed. At times, there was significant overlap between these topics and the rent scale discussion, highlighting for committee Members the delicate balance between all aspects of the social housing program.

To assist the committee in reviewing the results of the regional and community consultations, members were provided with extensive briefing material. This material described the proposed rent scale, summarized the information and concerns people shared at community meetings, and provided an analysis of those suggestions in a neutral, non-judgmental way.

This detailed information allowed the committee to fully understand the concerns northerners have, how these concerns can be addressed, and at what cost. Detailed information was also provided for the other topics covered.

The Rent Scale

Many issues were raised during the community and regional consultations regarding the proposed rent scale. The committee looked carefully at the results of the consultations, discussing the public input and potential options for addressing the concerns in an effective way.

As a result of the detailed review of the rent scale and the community consultations, the committee made a number of recommendations to the Minister of Housing for changes to the proposed rent scale. The recommendations were as follows:

1. Rent scale should be based on gross household income;

2. Elders'/Seniors' rents should be eliminated;

3. Incomes of family members living with elders/seniors should be assessed for rent;

4. Income from the following groups should be exempted from the social housing rental scale:

- Elders/seniors

- Disabled

- Students' training and employment allowances

- Social assistance recipients

- Workers Compensation Board (WCB) benefits

- Widows' and survivors' pensions

- Income earned traditionally by an independent

operator principally engaged in hunting, fishing or trapping for a livelihood

5. Rent scale should be phased in over four years;

6. Unit condition rent deduction should be based on a graduated scale;

7. Cost-of-living adjustment should be based on MACA's northern cost index;

8. The cost-of-living adjustment should apply to all individuals and families in all communities;

9. The income support review presently under way should be a high priority for completion and adoption;

10. The new rent scale should be implemented fairly and equitably across the NWT;

11. There should be incentives to local housing associations/authorities for energy conservation;

12. There should be additional resources to support implementation of home ownership; and,

13. The rent scale should be implemented April 1, 1995.

The Minister of Housing made a commitment to make every effort to incorporate the suggestions from the committee and community consultations into the rent scale prior to bringing it forward to the House.

Madam Speaker, I would like, at this point, to ask the honourable Member for Natilikmiot, to continue with the terms of reference.

Committee Report 14-12(6): Advisory Committee On Social Housing Report On Taloyoak Meetings, September 23 - 25, 1994
Item 11: Reports Of Standing And Special Committees

Page 567

The Speaker Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Thank you. The honourable Member for Natilikmiot, Mr. Ningark.

Amending The Terms Of Reference

Committee Report 14-12(6): Advisory Committee On Social Housing Report On Taloyoak Meetings, September 23 - 25, 1994
Item 11: Reports Of Standing And Special Committees

Page 567

John Ningark Natilikmiot

Thank you, Madam Speaker. The work of the committee in Taloyoak raised the ongoing concerns of committee Members regarding weaknesses in the Advisory Committee on Social Housing's terms of reference. During the final day of meetings, the Members discussed these concerns and, as a result, developed amendments to the terms of reference to address the concerns. The amendments focus on three key areas.

Name Of The Committee Making Recommendations To The House

The committee was originally set up strictly as an advisory group. This allowed the Minister of Housing to share ideas on housing issues with ordinary Members and receive feedback which would allow the development of more effective policies and programs.

However, since the creation of the committee, the issues surrounding social housing have become more controversial. The drastic federal funding cuts and the resulting program reductions by the Housing Corporation mean that there will be times when the committee not only wishes to recommend changes to the Minister, but also wants to bring those recommendations to the Legislative Assembly. Committee Members feel they will be taking a stronger role in the future as the tough housing decisions must be made; as a result, the committee needs the authority to make recommendations to the government on housing issues, rather than just providing the Minister with advice.

To accommodate the changing role of the committee, two changes to the terms of reference are proposed: first, that the name of the committee be changed to Special Joint Committee on Housing; and second, that the committee have the authority to make reports, motions and recommendations on housing policies programs and other issues to the government through the Legislative Assembly.

Selection Of Chairman

For most committees of the Legislative Assembly, the chairman is selected by the committee from among its Members. However, under the current terms of reference for the housing committee, the Minister of Housing is automatically the chairman of the committee. While Members are satisfied with the performance of the current Minister as chairman, they would like to see a different method for selecting and removing the chairman in the future. Members recognize that, as chairman, the Minister can control the agenda and direct issues; however, he cannot talk to the issues, which is a distinct disadvantage.

Madam Speaker, to provide consistency with other Legislative Assembly committees and to give the committee flexibility in its choice, a change to the terms of reference allowing the committee to select its own chairman from its Members is proposed.

The committee will be bringing forward to the Assembly amended terms of reference for consultation and approval.

Madam Speaker, I will not be comfortable in reading the next line, so I will ask Mr. Gargan to proceed. Thank you.

Committee Report 14-12(6): Advisory Committee On Social Housing Report On Taloyoak Meetings, September 23 - 25, 1994
Item 11: Reports Of Standing And Special Committees

Page 568

The Speaker Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Thank you. The honourable Member for Deh Cho, Mr. Gargan.

Committee Report 14-12(6): Advisory Committee On Social Housing Report On Taloyoak Meetings, September 23 - 25, 1994
Item 11: Reports Of Standing And Special Committees

Page 568

Samuel Gargan Deh Cho

Thank you, Madam Speaker. The committee would like to thank the Member of the Legislative Assembly for Natilikmiot and the people of Taloyoak for their warm hospitality.

---Applause

As well, the committee would like to thank the Minister and staff of the NWT Housing Corporation for the presentations...

---Applause

...and material provided on the review of the regional and community consultations. The completeness of the information and the open approach taken by the Minister greatly assisted the committee in its detailed consideration of the issues. Madam Speaker, that concludes the report of the Advisory Committee on Social Housing.

Motion To Receive And Adopt Committee Report 14-12(6), Carried

Therefore I move, seconded by the honourable Member for Natilikmiot, that the report of the Advisory Committee on Social Housing on its meeting in Taloyoak be received by the Assembly and adopted.

Committee Report 14-12(6): Advisory Committee On Social Housing Report On Taloyoak Meetings, September 23 - 25, 1994
Item 11: Reports Of Standing And Special Committees

Page 568

The Speaker Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Thank you. Your motion is in order. To the motion.

Committee Report 14-12(6): Advisory Committee On Social Housing Report On Taloyoak Meetings, September 23 - 25, 1994
Item 11: Reports Of Standing And Special Committees

Page 568

An Hon. Member

Question.

Committee Report 14-12(6): Advisory Committee On Social Housing Report On Taloyoak Meetings, September 23 - 25, 1994
Item 11: Reports Of Standing And Special Committees

Page 568

The Speaker Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Question is being called. All those in favour? All those opposed? The motion is carried.

---Carried

Item 11, reports of standing and special committees. Item 12, reports of committees on the review of bills. Item 13, tabling of documents. The honourable Member for Yellowknife Frame Lake, Mr. Dent.

Item 13: Tabling Of Documents
Item 13: Tabling Of Documents

Page 568

Charles Dent Yellowknife Frame Lake

Thank you, Madam Speaker. Madam Speaker, I would like to table Tabled Document 46-12(6), which is a letter from Mr. Robert Faith, who is the principal of Mildred Hall School. This letter expresses deep concern over the loss of the half-day a week public health nurse visits to the school, which has resulted from the decision not to renew the term position for the public health nurse, which the Minister of Health referred to in her return today to my earlier oral question.

Item 13: Tabling Of Documents
Item 13: Tabling Of Documents

Page 568

Some Hon. Members

Shame, shame.

Item 13: Tabling Of Documents
Item 13: Tabling Of Documents

Page 568

The Speaker Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Thank you. Item 13, tabling of documents. Item 14, notices of motion. Item 15, notices of motions for first reading of bills. The honourable Member for Hay River, Mr. Pollard.

Item 15: Notices Of Motions
Item 15: Notices Of Motions

Page 568

The Speaker Jeannie Marie-Jewell

FOR FIRST READING OF BILLS

Bill 16: An Act To Amend The Legislative Assembly And Executive Council Act, No. 2
Item 15: Notices Of Motions

Page 568

John Pollard Hay River

Thank you, Madam Speaker. Madam Speaker, I give notice that on Monday, October 31, 1994, I shall move that Bill 16, An Act to Amend the Legislative Assembly and Executive Council Act, No. 2, be read for the first time. Thank you, Madam Speaker.

Bill 16: An Act To Amend The Legislative Assembly And Executive Council Act, No. 2
Item 15: Notices Of Motions

Page 568

The Speaker Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Thank you. Item 15, notices of motions for first reading of bills. The honourable Member for Sahtu, Mr. Kakfwi.

Bill 21: An Act To Amend The Fair Practices Act
Item 15: Notices Of Motions

Page 568

Stephen Kakfwi Sahtu

Madam Speaker, I give notice that on Monday, October 31, 1994, I shall move that Bill 21, An Act to Amend the Fair Practices Act, be read for the first time.

Bill 21: An Act To Amend The Fair Practices Act
Item 15: Notices Of Motions

Page 568

The Speaker Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Thank you. Item 15, notices of motions for first reading of bills. Item 16, motions. Item 17, first reading of bills. The honourable Member for Hay River, Mr. Pollard.

Bill 19: Supplementary Appropriation Act, No. 1, 1994-95, Withdrawn
Item 17: First Reading Of Bills

Page 568

John Pollard Hay River

Thank you, Madam Speaker. Madam Speaker, I move, seconded by the honourable Member for Nunakput, that Bill 19, Supplementary Appropriation Act, No. 1, 1994-95, be read for the first time. Thank you, Madam Speaker.

Bill 19: Supplementary Appropriation Act, No. 1, 1994-95, Withdrawn
Item 17: First Reading Of Bills

Page 568

The Speaker Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Thank you. Mr. Pollard, I believe you indicated Bill 19. For the record, Supplementary Appropriation Act, No. 4, is Bill 18 and is under first reading of bills.

Bill 19: Supplementary Appropriation Act, No. 1, 1994-95, Withdrawn
Item 17: First Reading Of Bills

Page 568

Some Hon. Members

Shame, shame.

Bill 19: Supplementary Appropriation Act, No. 1, 1994-95, Withdrawn
Item 17: First Reading Of Bills

Page 568

John Pollard Hay River

Madam Speaker, the documents I have before me do not conform to the information you have just given me, so I will stand the item down and deal with it later. Thank you, Madam Speaker. I will withdraw the motion.

---Withdrawn

Bill 19: Supplementary Appropriation Act, No. 1, 1994-95, Withdrawn
Item 17: First Reading Of Bills

Page 569

The Speaker Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Item 17, first reading of bills. The honourable Member for Mackenzie Delta, Mr. Nerysoo.

Bill 20: An Act To Amend The Student Financial Assistance Act, Carried
Item 17: First Reading Of Bills

Page 569

Richard Nerysoo Mackenzie Delta

Thank you, Madam Speaker. Madam Speaker, I move, seconded by the honourable Member for Tu Nedhe, that Bill 20, An Act to Amend the Student Financial Assistance Act, be read for the first time. Thank you, Madam Speaker.

Bill 20: An Act To Amend The Student Financial Assistance Act, Carried
Item 17: First Reading Of Bills

Page 569

The Speaker Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Your motion is in order.

Bill 20: An Act To Amend The Student Financial Assistance Act, Carried
Item 17: First Reading Of Bills

Page 569

An Hon. Member

Question.

Bill 20: An Act To Amend The Student Financial Assistance Act, Carried
Item 17: First Reading Of Bills

Page 569

The Speaker Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Question is being called. All those in favour? All those opposed? The motion is carried.

---Carried

Item 17, first reading of bills. Item 18, second reading of bills. Item 19, consideration in committee of the whole of bills and other matters: Tabled Document 14-12(6), "Open for Business" - Privatizing the Northwest Territories Power Corporation; Tabled Document 23-12(6), Report of the 1993-94 Electoral District Boundaries Commission Northwest Territories; Tabled Document 36-12(6), "Action Plan - Consolidation - Health and Social Services"; Minister's Statement 11-12(6), Return to Session; Committee Report 10-12(6), Report on the Review of the 1995-96 Capital Estimates; Committee Report 11-12(6), Report on the First Annual Report (1992-93) of the Languages Commissioner of the NWT; Bill 1, Appropriation Act, No. 1, 1995-96; Bill 2, Aboriginal Custom Adoption Recognition Act;Bill 3, Guardianship and Trusteeship Act; Bill 7, An Act to Amend the Arctic College Act; Bill 8, An Act to Amend the Public Utilities Act; Bill 15, An Act to Amend the Legislative Assembly and Executive Council Act, with Mr. Lewis in the chair.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 569

The Chair Brian Lewis

Good afternoon. I would like to call the committee of the whole to order. What would the committee like to do this afternoon? Mr. Dent.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
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Page 569

Charles Dent Yellowknife Frame Lake

Mr. Chairman, I would like to recommend that the committee continue consideration of Committee Report 10-12(6) and Bill 1, specifically dealing with the NWT Housing Corporation's budget today. Should we conclude that item, I would like to recommend that we consider Bill 3.

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The Chair Brian Lewis

Is the committee happy with the proposal from Mr. Dent? Well, no one is saying anything, so I presume it is all right.

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Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

---Agreed

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The Chair Brian Lewis

Mr. Morin, this is your department. Do you have any opening remarks, Mr. Morin?

Northwest Territories Housing Corporation

Minister's Introductory Remarks

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Don Morin Tu Nedhe

Thank you, Mr. Chairman, I am pleased to present the NWT Housing Corporation's 1995-96 capital main estimates. For 1995-96 we are asking the Legislative Assembly to approve total capital of $49 million. We will also receive $4.661 million from CMHC for retrofitting and modernization and improvement projects for existing social housing.

The first of these will improve on our use of current resources. One of the largest resources we have is our existing social housing units. As Members know, I will be proposing changes to the rent scale during this session. These proposed changes will encourage higher income people, who are currently in social housing, to get into home ownership. Badly needed social housing units will be vacated for those lower income households who are waiting to get a house. We must keep our social housing units for those lower income clients who most need this type of help.

For the 1995-96 year, all new units will be delivered through the corporation's home ownership programs. There will be no new rent supplement or social housing built this year. This will save approximately $80 million in leasing and operating costs over the next 20 years. Focusing on home ownership will provide the home ownership options necessary for tenants who can afford it to move out of social housing.

Another initiative is the introduction of the new downpayment assistance program. This new program provides a maximum of 25 per cent of the cost to build or purchase a new home. Up to five per cent of the home's value is provided as a grant, with the balance of 20 per cent being provided as a forgivable loan. The forgivable loan portion will be written off over a 15-year period.

We recognize that some families, whose incomes are just below the core need income threshold, could get into home ownership with downpayment assistance. The objective of this program is to help clients qualify for bank financing and make their mortgage payments affordable. Of the 313 units, 50 units will be provided for the downpayment assistance program.

For the last two years, I have talked about our loss of federal funding and the lobbying efforts to regain this funding for housing. Members of the Advisory Committee on Social Housing, my Cabinet colleagues, aboriginal leaders, both national and in the NWT, and myself, have lobbied hard to get the federal government to recognize their responsibility for aboriginal housing in the NWT.

I am hopeful that these efforts may be about to pay off, at least in a small way. The federal government is working on the development of an aboriginal housing policy. This signals that the federal government has recognized its responsibility for housing aboriginal people across the country. It is expected that this new policy will lead to longer-term funding commitments being made available to assist in housing aboriginal people, on and off reserves. However, I do not expect funding levels to return to the $47 million that was cut. We will continue to press our position with the federal government.

Many recommendations were received from the communities. These recommendations have been reviewed by myself and members of the Advisory Committee on Social Housing at a meeting held in Taloyoak in late September. Through the consultation process, many good ideas were offered to make housing delivery more efficient, more cost-effective and more focused on the housing needs of families and the communities. I will be tabling the results of the consultation process in the House during this session.

At the district consultation meetings, community leaders expressed support for a number of initiatives the corporation has undertaken. These include the northern manufacturing initiative and the building and learning strategy. I am committed to continuing our support for both of these. The building and learning strategy, which is a joint effort between the corporation, Public Works and Services and the Department of Education, Culture and Employment, has been expanded to 12 communities. In the past year, 33 trainees received Construction Worker I and II certificates. With the expansion of the program, we can only improve on that number. Better trained workers mean better job opportunities and more local employment.

This year marks the 20th anniversary of the Housing Corporation and this will be the most challenging period in the corporation's history. The consultation meetings began a process of working with communities. I am committed to continuing this work with the communities to come up with innovative ways to meet those challenges.

The information in the published capital estimate document at the regional level for the NWT Housing Corporation is incorrect. As a result of the position of numbers, the budget for the Baffin region is incorrectly reflected in the Kitikmeot region, and the budget for the Kitikmeot region is incorrectly reflected in the Baffin region. Revised pages 03-11, 03-12 and 03-18 have been provided to the committee and, I understand, have been inserted in your capital estimate documents. So, Kelvin, you are not getting more money, it was a mistake.

That concludes my remarks, Mr. Chairman. Thank you, very much. I would be pleased to answer questions.

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Page 570

The Chair Brian Lewis

I would like Members to note, then, that there are inserts in the capital documents now. Thank you, Mr. Morin. Report from the Standing Committee on Finance. Mr. Dent.

Standing Committee On Finance Comments

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Page 570

Charles Dent Yellowknife Frame Lake

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. On behalf of the Standing Committee on Finance, I would like to present our report on the NWT Housing Corporation.

The cuts in federal funding for housing programs in the NWT have forced a serious change of outlook on the corporation. While negotiations continue with the federal government and, as the Minister has just outlined, he doesn't expect funding levels to return to the $47 million that were cut, committee Members urge the corporation to prepare for a possible new reality of reduced federal funding, and to restructure in such a way as to better meet this challenge.

Recommendation 9

Therefore, the Standing Committee on Finance recommends that the NWT Housing Corporation develop a restructuring plan to be presented to the committee by January 9, 1995, which will allow the corporation to better meet the challenge of reduced funding.

Mr. Chairman, this restructuring should include consideration of more cost-effective ways of delivering housing programs, of constructing housing and of assisting northerners to purchase existing housing.

In considering how to best address the social housing needs of the NWT, the committee also encourages the corporation to consult with northern aboriginal organizations. It may be possible to access new federal funding for aboriginal housing and to provide that funding directly to aboriginal organizations. Those organizations can then provide more housing for those NWT aboriginal residents who need it the most.

Finally, Mr. Chairman, committee Members are anxious to see the completed transfer of responsibility for staff housing to the corporation.

Recommendation 10

The Standing Committee on Finance recommends that the NWT Housing Corporation finalize a plan for transferring responsibility for staff housing from the Department of Personnel and the Department of Public Works and Services to the corporation by April 1, 1995 and that the plan be presented to the House during the winter session before March 31, 1995.

Mr. Chairman, that completes the report of the Standing Committee on Finance. I would now like to present the two recommendations in the form of motions.

Committee Motion 39-12(6): To Adopt Recommendation 9, Carried
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Page 570

Charles Dent Yellowknife Frame Lake

I move that this committee recommends that the NWT Housing Corporation develop a restructuring plan to be presented to the committee by January 9, 1995, which will allow the corporation to better meet the challenge of reduced funding.

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Page 571

The Chair Brian Lewis

Thank you, Mr. Dent. Your motion is in order. To the motion.

Committee Motion 39-12(6): To Adopt Recommendation 9, Carried
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Page 571

An Hon. Member

Question.

Committee Motion 39-12(6): To Adopt Recommendation 9, Carried
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Page 571

The Chair Brian Lewis

Question has been called. All those in favour? All those opposed? The motion is carried.

---Carried

Mr. Dent.

Committee Motion 40-12(6): To Adopt Recommendation 10, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 571

Charles Dent Yellowknife Frame Lake

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I move that the committee recommends that the NWT Housing Corporation finalize a plan for transferring responsibility for staff housing from the Department of Personnel and the Department of Public Works and Services to the corporation by April 1, 1995, and that the plan be presented to the House during the winter session before March 31, 1995.

Committee Motion 40-12(6): To Adopt Recommendation 10, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 571

The Chair Brian Lewis

Thank you, Mr. Dent. Your motion is in order. To the motion.

Committee Motion 40-12(6): To Adopt Recommendation 10, Carried
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Page 571

An Hon. Member

Question.

Committee Motion 40-12(6): To Adopt Recommendation 10, Carried
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Page 571

The Chair Brian Lewis

Question is being called. All those in favour? All those opposed? The motion is carried.

---Carried

That concludes the remarks from the Minister and the Standing Committee on Finance. Any general comments? Mr. Minister, would you like to bring your witnesses into the House? Mr. Morin.

Committee Motion 40-12(6): To Adopt Recommendation 10, Carried
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Page 571

Don Morin Tu Nedhe

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Yes.

Committee Motion 40-12(6): To Adopt Recommendation 10, Carried
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Page 571

The Chair Brian Lewis

Okay. Do Members have any objections? There are none, so please bring in your witnesses.

For the record, please introduce your witnesses.

Committee Motion 40-12(6): To Adopt Recommendation 10, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 571

Don Morin Tu Nedhe

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. To my right is Al Menard, president of the Housing Corporation. To my left is Dave Murray, vice-president of programs.

Committee Motion 40-12(6): To Adopt Recommendation 10, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 571

The Chair Brian Lewis

Thank you, Mr. Morin. Now you will be able to listen to any general comments, statements or

questions Members may want to ask. General comments. Do you want to go into the detail? Mr. Gargan.

General Comments

Committee Motion 40-12(6): To Adopt Recommendation 10, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 571

Samuel Gargan Deh Cho

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, I just wanted to touch a bit on the needs survey that was done in 1992 regarding the housing needs and requirements. The needs of the housing survey are based on households. Do you also put the population of the communities into the needs surveys? In Fort Liard, for example, there are 140 households. It doesn't talk about the population itself. How do you come up with the numbers?

Committee Motion 40-12(6): To Adopt Recommendation 10, Carried
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Page 571

The Chair Brian Lewis

Thank you, Mr. Gargan. Mr. Morin.

Committee Motion 40-12(6): To Adopt Recommendation 10, Carried
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Page 571

Don Morin Tu Nedhe

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. The needs survey that was done was done in conjunction with the communities. For example, in Mr. Gargan's area, it would have been done with a Slavey speaking person picked by the community, as well as a person from the NWT Housing Corporation and they would have gone from house to house and surveyed every person in the community and the number reflect the actual number of people in need. Thank you.

Committee Motion 40-12(6): To Adopt Recommendation 10, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 571

The Chair Brian Lewis

Thank you. Mr. Gargan.

Committee Motion 40-12(6): To Adopt Recommendation 10, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 571

Samuel Gargan Deh Cho

So if you look at the scale for Fort Providence, you would have 200 households with housing problems. In Providence, the average population is 700.

Committee Motion 40-12(6): To Adopt Recommendation 10, Carried
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Page 571

The Chair Brian Lewis

Mr. Morin.

Committee Motion 40-12(6): To Adopt Recommendation 10, Carried
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Page 571

Don Morin Tu Nedhe

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. According to the social housing need study that was done in 1992, in Fort Providence, we had 44 people in need of housing.

Committee Motion 40-12(6): To Adopt Recommendation 10, Carried
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Page 571

The Chair Brian Lewis

Thank you, Mr. Morin. Mr. Gargan.

Committee Motion 40-12(6): To Adopt Recommendation 10, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 571

Samuel Gargan Deh Cho

So, the numbers really don't have anything to do with population.

Committee Motion 40-12(6): To Adopt Recommendation 10, Carried
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Page 571

The Chair Brian Lewis

Mr. Morin.

Committee Motion 40-12(6): To Adopt Recommendation 10, Carried
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Page 571

Don Morin Tu Nedhe

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. The numbers reflect the people who are in need.

Committee Motion 40-12(6): To Adopt Recommendation 10, Carried
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Page 571

The Chair Brian Lewis

General comments. Mr. Gargan.

Committee Motion 40-12(6): To Adopt Recommendation 10, Carried
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Page 571

Samuel Gargan Deh Cho

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. You indicated 44 people in need, 44 would be part of what number that was surveyed?

Committee Motion 40-12(6): To Adopt Recommendation 10, Carried
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Page 571

The Chair Brian Lewis

Mr. Morin.

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Page 571

Don Morin Tu Nedhe

That is how many people are in need. For example, 44 people in need in Fort Providence; at the Hay River Reserve, it was 3 people; in Kakisa, it was two people. That was reflected on the needs survey. The only change that was ever done to the needs survey was on the Hay River Reserve where there was concern about how it was carried out. So the Housing Corporation went and redid it with the people there and it did kick their need up a bit.

Committee Motion 40-12(6): To Adopt Recommendation 10, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 572

The Chair Brian Lewis

Thank you, Mr. Morin. Does that answer your question, Mr. Gargan?

Committee Motion 40-12(6): To Adopt Recommendation 10, Carried
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Page 572

Samuel Gargan Deh Cho

Mr. Chairman, I don't know how you can assess the needs based on what you have...You have 200 houses according to this survey. There are 200 people living in houses, of which 77 have housing problems and you have 44 in core need. I think the 44 would be the ones who would determine the allocation, right?

Committee Motion 40-12(6): To Adopt Recommendation 10, Carried
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Page 572

The Chair Brian Lewis

Mr. Morin.

Committee Motion 40-12(6): To Adopt Recommendation 10, Carried
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Page 572

Don Morin Tu Nedhe

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. The number 44 is the number we've been working with. That's how the allocation would be given out; by the number 44. If there are 77 people with housing problems, maybe some of those people are capable of taking care of some of the minor problems they have themselves. I don't know.

Committee Motion 40-12(6): To Adopt Recommendation 10, Carried
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Page 572

The Chair Brian Lewis

Thank you very much, Mr. Morin. Mr. Gargan.

Committee Motion 40-12(6): To Adopt Recommendation 10, Carried
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Page 572

Samuel Gargan Deh Cho

I don't have the survey that was done of the reserve. I would like to ask the Minister if he has the most up-to-date survey that was conducted, other than this one.

Committee Motion 40-12(6): To Adopt Recommendation 10, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 572

The Chair Brian Lewis

Mr. Morin.

Committee Motion 40-12(6): To Adopt Recommendation 10, Carried
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Page 572

Don Morin Tu Nedhe

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I don't have the information available to me right now.

Committee Motion 40-12(6): To Adopt Recommendation 10, Carried
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Page 572

The Chair Brian Lewis

Mr. Morin.

Committee Motion 40-12(6): To Adopt Recommendation 10, Carried
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Page 572

Don Morin Tu Nedhe

I can get that information for the Member.

Committee Motion 40-12(6): To Adopt Recommendation 10, Carried
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Page 572

The Chair Brian Lewis

Are you finished, Mr. Gargan?

Committee Motion 40-12(6): To Adopt Recommendation 10, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 572

Samuel Gargan Deh Cho

Mr. Chairman, in the South Slave areas where there are about 15 communities involved with housing, I would like to ask whether or not the allocations made to all the communities is based on per capita, or is it still based on assessment.

Committee Motion 40-12(6): To Adopt Recommendation 10, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 572

The Chair Brian Lewis

Mr. Morin.

Committee Motion 40-12(6): To Adopt Recommendation 10, Carried
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Page 572

Don Morin Tu Nedhe

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. The allocations throughout the Northwest Territories, including the South Slave region, are based on the 1992 needs survey.

Committee Motion 40-12(6): To Adopt Recommendation 10, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 572

The Chair Brian Lewis

Thank you, Mr. Morin. Mr. Gargan.

Committee Motion 40-12(6): To Adopt Recommendation 10, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 572

Samuel Gargan Deh Cho

In the summer of this year, Mr. Chairman, there was an allocation supposed to go to Kakisa. I would like to ask the Minister, the allocation for Kakisa has been carried over to this year, right? Last year there was an allocation for Kakisa. The allocation didn't go to Kakisa this year. I think it went to a family at the West Point Dene Band. I am wondering if it is going to be replaced this year.

Committee Motion 40-12(6): To Adopt Recommendation 10, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 572

The Chair Brian Lewis

Mr. Morin.

Committee Motion 40-12(6): To Adopt Recommendation 10, Carried
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Page 572

Don Morin Tu Nedhe

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. The allocation that was to go to Kakisa was an alternate unit. It was moved

to West Point. Kakisa won't lose that unit; it was borrowed. They will get it back next year.

Committee Motion 40-12(6): To Adopt Recommendation 10, Carried
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Page 572

The Chair Brian Lewis

Mr. Gargan.

Committee Motion 40-12(6): To Adopt Recommendation 10, Carried
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Page 572

Samuel Gargan Deh Cho

I have another question, Mr. Chairman. I would like to ask the Minister how the allocation for Providence, which was four in May, was reduced to three in the final allocation.

Committee Motion 40-12(6): To Adopt Recommendation 10, Carried
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Page 572

The Chair Brian Lewis

Mr. Morin.

Committee Motion 40-12(6): To Adopt Recommendation 10, Carried
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Page 572

Don Morin Tu Nedhe

I will have to get that information to the Member. All I have on my books here is an allocation of three.

Committee Motion 40-12(6): To Adopt Recommendation 10, Carried
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Page 572

The Chair Brian Lewis

Thank you, Mr. Morin. Is that satisfactory, Mr. Gargan?

Committee Motion 40-12(6): To Adopt Recommendation 10, Carried
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Page 572

Samuel Gargan Deh Cho

Well, that includes a reduction in Fort Liard too. In May it had three, and it went down to two. I thought the allocation was based on need for the Deh Cho. For the South Slave area, there is a total of 61 units, but I guess there have been changes made. I am wondering how that was done.

Committee Motion 40-12(6): To Adopt Recommendation 10, Carried
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Page 572

The Chair Brian Lewis

Mr. Morin.

Committee Motion 40-12(6): To Adopt Recommendation 10, Carried
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Page 572

Don Morin Tu Nedhe

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. The allocation last year for Fort Providence was three; they did get three. For Fort Resolution, it was two; they got two. The Hay River Reserve was to get one and Kakisa was to get one, but we moved that one to West Point. We are going to move it back.

Committee Motion 40-12(6): To Adopt Recommendation 10, Carried
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Page 572

The Chair Brian Lewis

Thank you very much, Mr. Morin, for that detail. Mr. Gargan.

Committee Motion 40-12(6): To Adopt Recommendation 10, Carried
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Page 572

Samuel Gargan Deh Cho

Mr. Chairman, we still have social housing problems on the reserve. I don't have the needs survey in front of me, but I have done my own survey of the number of houses that require repairs. There are 42 units that either have to be replaced or repaired. The district office has advised me that there is no use spending the amount of money required to repair those old units, because we would be throwing money away if we continue to do that. So, we have to replace those units.

I haven't mentioned that single people are now living with their parents because there are no units. A lot of the parents are trying to make do with what they have in order to accommodate their children who are married and still living with them. But this year, the reserve gets nothing; absolutely nothing. No repairs, nothing.

Since I have become a Member, I have tried to resolve the issue of social housing on the reserve because of their status. Because it is a reserve, they cannot get public housing. For this reason, we have a situation where, even though people are on social assistance and old age security, we really don't have any programs for them. They cannot afford their own units and the upkeep on those units. There is a need on the reserve.

Unfortunately, I can't make an argument because there is no scale. They said the scale was done, but wasn't right. I don't know how to convince the Minister that there is an urgent need to address the situation on the Hay River Reserve. At one point, the federal Minister was willing to give what they call a ministerial guarantee to build social housing units, on the condition that this government gives the federal government what they call an indemnification. It is sort of a guarantee from this government for social housing.

The Minister hasn't addressed it, nor did Mr. Butters address it when he was a Minister. So, we still have a group of people on the reserve who are not being addressed. The only way to address them is through the public housing needs survey, Mr. Chairman.

Committee Motion 40-12(6): To Adopt Recommendation 10, Carried
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Page 573

The Chair Brian Lewis

Have you finished, Mr. Gargan? Okay, thanks, Mr. Gargan. Do you have any response, Mr. Morin?

Committee Motion 40-12(6): To Adopt Recommendation 10, Carried
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Page 573

Don Morin Tu Nedhe

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. This year in our budget we don't have any public housing or rental program at all. It's far too costly for us to be able to afford to build those units. I've just received a letter from the regional director, a briefing note, that he met with Pat and the council on the reserve about pursuing this thing with the federal government. They are recommending that we move with it. I've always supported it and I will support it once I see the documentation. The hope that they have is through this aboriginal housing program, for on-reserve/off-reserve.

Committee Motion 40-12(6): To Adopt Recommendation 10, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 573

The Chair Brian Lewis

Thank you, Mr. Morin. Mr. Gargan.

Committee Motion 40-12(6): To Adopt Recommendation 10, Carried
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Page 573

Samuel Gargan Deh Cho

I also realize the length of time it takes for the federal government at any given time to make a decision and then move on the decision. One year could lapse before any kind of decision is made. Mr. Chairman, five years ago was when we started the process of trying to address the social housing needs on the reserve. The government chose not to act on it and that problem has just been multiplying and we still haven't addressed it. I appreciate the Minister supporting the reserve but the problem still exists.

Committee Motion 40-12(6): To Adopt Recommendation 10, Carried
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Page 573

The Chair Brian Lewis

Thank you, Mr. Gargan. General comments? Next is Mr. Pudlat.

Committee Motion 40-12(6): To Adopt Recommendation 10, Carried
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Page 573

Kenoayoak Pudlat Baffin South

(Translation) Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I am also very thankful to the special committee on housing. I am very thankful for the hard work that the special committee has done but I have a question. We all know that there have been large cutbacks for public housing. There was a large cutback in the money allocated for public housing. With regards to the houses that were built in the early sixties, I think trying to keep them warm and upgraded becomes very expensive because the units are too old. These units I am referring to were built in the early 1960's and as they deteriorate, they get more expensive to upgrade and upkeep. There was a program where the older units were being replaced by newer units but my understanding is this program will probably not be carried through any more because of the lack of funding. I am also aware of two units in one of the communities that I represent that are in such a bad state that they should not even be up any more or in use. Two units in particular are not in fit condition for living. The local housing association was saying that they these two units were going to be used for firefighting practice but due to the large cuts in public housing, this was

not the case. Even after the units -- especially the older ones -- are renovated, it does not seem to help the heating problems.

My question is, are we going to start the replacement program again on the older units; the units that were built in the 1960s? Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Committee Motion 40-12(6): To Adopt Recommendation 10, Carried
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Page 573

The Chair Brian Lewis

Thank you, Mr. Pudlat. Mr. Morin.

Committee Motion 40-12(6): To Adopt Recommendation 10, Carried
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Page 573

Don Morin Tu Nedhe

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. We do have money to retrofit some Weber units in our budget. We do not have money to replace older units. All replacement stock, or all stock, was built through the home ownership program and that's the budget that's in front of you. We don't have any other money. Where the older units could be retrofitted, the corporation is moving more in the direction of retrofitting older units because we just cannot afford to replace those units. Thank you.

Committee Motion 40-12(6): To Adopt Recommendation 10, Carried
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Page 573

The Chair Brian Lewis

Thank you, Mr. Morin. Mr. Pudlat.

Committee Motion 40-12(6): To Adopt Recommendation 10, Carried
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Page 573

Kenoayoak Pudlat Baffin South

(Translation) Supplementary to my question, Mr. Chairman. We are also aware of units that are being sold to the general public, especially the older units. These are being sold to anyone who might be interested in purchasing an older unit. The people who are purchasing these units are able to put in their own funding and do their own upgrading on these units that they have purchased. My question is, when they sell these units are the prices as low as possible. Can the cost get any lower then it already is? Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Committee Motion 40-12(6): To Adopt Recommendation 10, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 573

The Chair Brian Lewis

Thank you, Mr. Pudlat. Mr. Morin.

Committee Motion 40-12(6): To Adopt Recommendation 10, Carried
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Page 573

Don Morin Tu Nedhe

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. All our northern rental stock is up for sale; that's those old northern rental units. For those people who are interested in purchasing them, all they have to do is get in touch with the housing authority and they, in turn, will be in touch with the regional office. We are very, very interested in selling them and we realize that some upgrading has to be done to some of them. We are willing to work out a deal with those local people that want to use them for housing. We will try our best to assist them in any way possible.

Committee Motion 40-12(6): To Adopt Recommendation 10, Carried
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Page 573

The Chair Brian Lewis

Mr. Morin, carry on.

Committee Motion 40-12(6): To Adopt Recommendation 10, Carried
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Page 573

Don Morin Tu Nedhe

If there are problems in the Member's riding, could he be more specific? If you have names or anything like that, I would be pleased to deal with those issues individually as well, if you want to write to me or tell me about it.

Committee Motion 40-12(6): To Adopt Recommendation 10, Carried
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Page 573

The Chair Brian Lewis

Thank you, Mr. Morin. That's a good offer. Mr. Pudlat.

Committee Motion 40-12(6): To Adopt Recommendation 10, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 573

Kenoayoak Pudlat Baffin South

(Translation) Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I haven't really seen any of these units being sold in the communities, such as Sanikiluaq or Cape Dorset. The units being sold are usually more common in the places in Lake Harbour. When these units are sold, are they sold at a low price? Can we get any lower than they are being sold at?

Committee Motion 40-12(6): To Adopt Recommendation 10, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 573

The Chair Brian Lewis

Mr. Morin.

Committee Motion 40-12(6): To Adopt Recommendation 10, Carried
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Page 574

Don Morin Tu Nedhe

We can go as low as one dollar.

Committee Motion 40-12(6): To Adopt Recommendation 10, Carried
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Page 574

The Chair Brian Lewis

Thank you. General comments. Mr. Ng.

Committee Motion 40-12(6): To Adopt Recommendation 10, Carried
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Page 574

Kelvin Ng Kitikmeot

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. My question is with regard to the Minister's comments about the sale of northern rental housing units, recognizing that they are some of the older units. The Minister did recognize it by saying they might have to upgrade some of these units. Would that be done prior to the sales or would there be some form of grant or loan program for clients subsequent to the sale for fixing up these northern rental units? Thank you.

Committee Motion 40-12(6): To Adopt Recommendation 10, Carried
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Page 574

The Chair Brian Lewis

Thank you, Mr. Ng. Mr. Morin.

Committee Motion 40-12(6): To Adopt Recommendation 10, Carried
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Page 574

Don Morin Tu Nedhe

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. That can be addressed either way, Mr. Ng. It all depends on how much money we have available in that region; what program clients fit into. If they are high-income, then it may be direct lending. If they are low income, it could be the HIP program, emergency repair or seniors' repair. There are many different programs. It would depend on each individual client. We would also counsel them. For example, we would sit down with client A and counsel them on how they could purchase the unit and what programs could be made available to them to upgrade the unit. That would be done on one-to-one client counselling.

Committee Motion 40-12(6): To Adopt Recommendation 10, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 574

The Chair Brian Lewis

Thank you, Mr. Morin. Mr. Ng.

Committee Motion 40-12(6): To Adopt Recommendation 10, Carried
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Page 574

Kelvin Ng Kitikmeot

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. With regard, again, to the northern rental sales, will individuals be required to come up with their own downpayments or financing? Or, would that be financed internally with the Housing Corporation? Would they be eligible for some of your proposed programs, such as the downpayment assistance program? Thank you.

Committee Motion 40-12(6): To Adopt Recommendation 10, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 574

The Chair Brian Lewis

Mr. Morin.

Committee Motion 40-12(6): To Adopt Recommendation 10, Carried
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Page 574

Don Morin Tu Nedhe

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. That is what I just finished saying. They are available for all those things. For high-income people, if they need to repair the unit, we can help them go to the bank for that or direct lend. The actual sale could be done through payments. We are very flexible. Any way that we can make it work with the client, we will do it. It is driven by what the client is capable of paying. That is how we approach it. Let me say that this program of selling the northern rentals has been in place for years. People have not taken advantage of it. It is just because it wasn't widely known. We are going to make sure people know that program exists and understand it, so we can help them get into it.

Committee Motion 40-12(6): To Adopt Recommendation 10, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 574

The Chair Brian Lewis

Thank you. Mr. Ng.

Committee Motion 40-12(6): To Adopt Recommendation 10, Carried
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Page 574

Kelvin Ng Kitikmeot

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I concur with the Minister that it isn't a widely-known program. If you do advertise it properly and explain the benefits to people, they would consider it.

The Minister replied about the Weber retrofit program that is funded by CMHC and I also noticed that there is the modernization and improvement program, where CMHC provides some cost-sharing for those programs for the upcoming capital year. Is that funding going to expire after the end of 1995-96 or is that an ongoing capital program that will still be accessible through CMHC? Thank you.

Committee Motion 40-12(6): To Adopt Recommendation 10, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 574

The Chair Brian Lewis

Mr. Morin.

Committee Motion 40-12(6): To Adopt Recommendation 10, Carried
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Page 574

Don Morin Tu Nedhe

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. As far as I know, it is still ongoing, but you are dealing with CMHC; you never know. They could slice it tomorrow.

Committee Motion 40-12(6): To Adopt Recommendation 10, Carried
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Page 574

The Chair Brian Lewis

Thank you. Mr. Ng.

Committee Motion 40-12(6): To Adopt Recommendation 10, Carried
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Page 574

Kelvin Ng Kitikmeot

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Yes, recognizing that CMHC has hit our government hard on cutbacks, I am curious as to why we wouldn't have maximized this program in this upcoming year to get the dollars out of it while we could. Has it been maximized in the amounts in the budget for the CMHC share or are they at the maximum limits right now? Thank you.

Committee Motion 40-12(6): To Adopt Recommendation 10, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 574

The Chair Brian Lewis

Mr. Morin.

Committee Motion 40-12(6): To Adopt Recommendation 10, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 574

Don Morin Tu Nedhe

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Ever since I have been the Minister of the Housing Corporation, we have maximized all federal funds. We have never turned back any dollars to the federal government because we couldn't match dollar for dollar. This program is matched and maxed out.

Committee Motion 40-12(6): To Adopt Recommendation 10, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 574

The Chair Brian Lewis

Thank you, Mr. Morin. Mr. Ng.

Committee Motion 40-12(6): To Adopt Recommendation 10, Carried
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Page 574

Kelvin Ng Kitikmeot

That is it for now, Mr. Chairman. Thank you.

Committee Motion 40-12(6): To Adopt Recommendation 10, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 574

The Chair Brian Lewis

Mr. Ningark.

Committee Motion 40-12(6): To Adopt Recommendation 10, Carried
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Page 574

John Ningark Natilikmiot

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, in the departmental overview under corporate mission, we talked about item 3, provide training. Item number 4 talks about promoting individual independence with increased responsibility and accountability. Under 5, it talks about promoting the establishing and growth of private housing markets in a northern economy. On the next page, under the corporate goals, item 5 is to support local economy.

I also know the Minister works very hard to make sure the outside contractor respects community laws and I would like to commend the Minister for that. The Minister tries to ensure that local contractors are used, subsequent to that they hire local people which helps the local economy very much.

We have not been able to fully utilize the local contractors or the local labour. In that respect, we have seen many problems, perhaps not only in Repulse Bay, Taloyoak or Pelly Bay, but in other communities across the territories, Mr. Chairman.

Mr. Chairman, I am not going to get specific or name contractors, but there are certain contractors who do not respect community law, especially in communities that have restricted alcohol consumption or are strictly dry. Above and beyond that, there are other social issues that came out as the result of hiring outside contractors. This is not always the case, though.

If the department is to hire local contractors, this would ensure that we help the local economy. Most of the small communities in this particular jurisdiction have a high rate of unemployment in the system. Most small communities in the territories have a high rate of social assistance, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, I hope in the future years, we are able to make some corrections to the policy of hiring and using local contractors; or, one day soon, we will be fully utilizing local contractors. Subsequently, in the interim, they should hire local people, Mr. Chairman.

When you hire local people, you are not only ensuring that money stays in the community, but the economic well-being of a community is enhanced and subsequently, and when people are earning money, at least they are able to pay for rent. When they are able to pay for their rent, perhaps people who are working for a long time, even seasonal workers, are one day going to be able to own their own home through the access program of this government.

Again, Mr. Chairman, I commend the Minister. I know the Minister is working extremely hard in order to meet the needs in the communities. He knows the problems; he has been approached on them. I know he knows the problems because he talked to us in the advisory committee meetings. I know the Minister is trying very, very hard, but I hope one day we will be able to solve this problem.

I don't know, Mr. Chairman, if we are going to be able to get rid of the problem we have in this system because every time we try to use local contractors as opposed to outside contractors, there are people out there saying, what about fair business practice. I know this is the case. Until we have a fully legislated policy in the system, it is going to be very hard. But, I want the Minister to be aware of the social problems that are derived from some, not all, outside contractors who were awarded work in the communities.

I don't want to be all negative. There are wonderful things that come out of the work of outside contractors. The workmanship is good and they are able to meet deadlines on time. But, when you use local contractors, you ensure that money stays in the community, and you can be sure that people have pride in building their own homes. Mr. Chairman, you can also ensure that a person who is living in social housing also may know from the inside out of that house and, one day, if that person becomes the owner of a house, he or she will be able to maintain their home. It is very crucial and very important that these things are noted. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Committee Motion 40-12(6): To Adopt Recommendation 10, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 575

The Chair Brian Lewis

Thank you, Mr. Ningark. I don't know if any questions were there, but maybe you would like to make a response, Mr. Morin.

Committee Motion 40-12(6): To Adopt Recommendation 10, Carried
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Page 575

Don Morin Tu Nedhe

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. We are going to work with the local communities to ensure that the problem that Mr. Arvaluk and Mr. Ningark brought up about drugs and alcohol going into the communities doesn't occur. The RCMP should arrest and charge the people who are bringing in the drugs. And, as far as alcohol, if the community has made a decision to be dry, then contractors should respect that.

I've asked the Housing Corporation as well as DPW to look into building into our tender documents that the contractors should have dry camps. I know that in the majority of the camps in the Northwest Territories, if you are going to work for someone, you sign a paper and you can't bring alcohol into that camp. So, maybe we can address that problem through that means.

We would like to see as many local people benefit from contracts as possible. We have used many different approaches and have put in place many different training programs as well to try to benefit local people. In Mr. Ningark's riding, it has worked fairly well. In other ridings -- in some where we have bent over backwards to accommodate local contractors or people trying to get contracts -- all they've done is get the contract and turn around and hire people from Newfoundland. These are northern local people who have done this.

So, we still police those people as well. We know where they are, we know where they are working, and they are going to pay the price for doing those kinds of things. Next year, they will not get us bending over backwards to do the same thing for them again. It is as simple as that. They do it to us once, and that is it.

We want to hire local people; we want to ensure local people are working on the job, and we will do everything possible. Already we have amended the tender documents to tell contractors that if they say there are northern people in their employment in a community and there are 27 people all coming from Gitzel Street from a one-bedroom apartment, we are going to catch that and they are going to pay, accordingly. We are tired of getting defrauded by a few, bad contractors who live in southern Canada, work their way through the system, and who have lawyers and accountants working for them to show them how to beat the system. That's what we have to police.

A total of 95 per cent of our contractors are excellent contractors. There are just a few that give others a bad name. That's why there is a new business incentive policy. I know we would like to see a simple policy, but a very simple policy which would be developed for honest people. We have a fraction of people out there who are dishonest and that is why we have to state all the rules to try to corner those people and keep them out of our workforce.

We are doing as much as possible at this time, we are going to try to do more, and we are going to ensure that those people who call themselves local and call themselves northerners truly are. Thank you.

Committee Motion 40-12(6): To Adopt Recommendation 10, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 575

The Chair Brian Lewis

Thank you, Mr. Morin. I'm sure a lot of people will hear your warning. Mr. Ningark.

Committee Motion 40-12(6): To Adopt Recommendation 10, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 575

John Ningark Natilikmiot

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I wasn't going to speak on this further during general comments, but I just want to respond to the Minister by saying thank you. I know I stated

earlier when I made my initial comments on this issue that the Minister is trying very hard to address some of the concerns we have from the communities. I know he is trying and I just wanted to say thank you.

Committee Motion 40-12(6): To Adopt Recommendation 10, Carried
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Page 576

The Chair Brian Lewis

Thank you, Mr. Ningark. Anyone else? Are there any general comments or statements? Mr. Antoine.

Committee Motion 40-12(6): To Adopt Recommendation 10, Carried
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Page 576

Jim Antoine Nahendeh

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I would just like to say that I have been very frustrated over the years with regard to the numerous small problems that exist in the communities with housing. Some houses are not completed electrically and mechanically in a lot of cases. There are problems with some of the designs of new alternate units. The Minister knows what I am talking about. I hope those types of inefficiencies can be corrected, and I'm sure they will be. That is one of the concerns of the smaller communities.

There are quite a number of outstanding problems that exist in the communities. Whenever I travel to the communities, I am always confronted with the same problems that never get resolved by the Housing Corporation in my region. I just want to say that the regional office manager has made it a point to identify all the outstanding problems that exist in the small communities. They are keeping track of them and if anything comes up in any of the communities, they make note of it. This only started this summer after meeting with the regional office.

Prior to that, there were a lot of promises made by the Housing Corporation staff to the people in these communities, and these promises were never carried through. I've been running into that for the last three years. Finally, this summer, I was able to sit down with the manager and state my case. As a result of that, there is ongoing tracking of all these different problems, and hopefully these problems will get resolved in time.

I just want to let the Minister and his staff know that these outstanding issues that are out there in my constituency and need to be taken care of. The staff of the Housing Corporation made promises to the people in the communities, in this case there were a lot Dene people in the communities, and among Dene people your word is very important. If you give you word, you have to back up that word with some action. In a lot of cases, perhaps there are too many problems to deal with and the person who had been working in that area may have forgotten that some promises were made.

What I'm trying to do is try to identify all these different areas and all these different promises that were made, and make sure that the Housing Corporation lives up to its commitments and the promises that were made to the people in the community. Hopefully, all these outstanding issues will get resolved as soon as possible.

In many cases, I am told, there is funding to take care of some of these problems; yet, there is no work being done on it. But now I am told that they will get on with it and hopefully resolve these problems.

So that's the only problem I have with housing. I still have some problem with the way the access and the needs...There are still a lot of needs out there. The Minister knows that I've taken pictures of people who are still living in tents in my area. Even in the cold of winter they are still living in tents. Gradually we're taking care of these people who are still living in tents all year-round, including winter. This year I have been told that there are a couple of people who are still living in tents who will be getting adequate houses like everybody else. So, hopefully, all these different problems will get resolved.

In the other communities they may have a lot of houses, they may have a lot of people there who they look at and have needs. But when you go to Liard, there are still people who are living in tents. I don't know if you have to work with numbers to determine how many houses each community gets, but there are some real needs out there that need to be taken care of. I'm sure that the department and the Minister knows what I'm talking about, and that these people who really do need the houses eventually will be allocated some units. That's all I have for general comments, Mr. Chairman. Mahsi.

Committee Motion 40-12(6): To Adopt Recommendation 10, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 576

The Chair Brian Lewis

Any response, Mr. Morin?

Committee Motion 40-12(6): To Adopt Recommendation 10, Carried
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Page 576

Don Morin Tu Nedhe

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I too have concerns about project officers going into communities and going into homes and promising things. This even happens in my riding and probably all ridings. Sometimes you may go into an elder's unit and take down information, on paper and elders think that once they've given that information, they're going to get something. That may not be the case. The communication has got to be very clear. In that district, the South Slave district, in general -- out of all our districts -- it is in the worst shape for delivery. That district has fallen behind. They're still delivering programs this year from last year. We have put new management in place; we've taken the old management out and put new management in place. We have reinforced the support into the subdistrict office in your communities, Mr. Antoine. Also, we've put in a monitoring system.

A lot of those problems are irritants. Irritants to the client don't cost very much money to fix. They are usually warranty problems, problems with the way the HAP packages were delivered, or whatever. They are small-ticket items that don't cost a lot of money to fix and should be fixed. We will move to fix those.

I agree that we have to try to get all people that are living in tents out of tents. We have to make sure that projects get delivered in time and get followed up on as well. We are working to do those things. Thank you.

Committee Motion 40-12(6): To Adopt Recommendation 10, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 576

The Chair Brian Lewis

Thank you, Mr. Morin. Mr. Antoine.

Committee Motion 40-12(6): To Adopt Recommendation 10, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 576

Jim Antoine Nahendeh

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. While the Minister was talking, a couple of other concerns were raised as a result of what we've been talking about here. One of the concerns I've raised earlier in this session is with regard to insurance for homes that are being built in the communities. Especially in the communities where it is difficult to get fire insurance for the individuals because of lack of or very limited fire protection; mainly in the smaller communities where all they have, basically, is a large fire extinguisher on the back of the trucks. It's a chemical extinguisher; once you use it, it's gone. If the fire is big enough, such as was the case this past June in Jean Marie River, where a house that was being renovated caught on fire in the middle of the day...Everybody knew it was

burning but after the fire retardant ran out, everybody more or less just stood around and watched it burn to the ground because there is no other type of equipment there to put the fire out.

I think the department, if it hasn't done this yet, should look at how they can assist the communities and perhaps work with an insurance company to see if they could help some of the communities acquire fire insurance for their houses because you're looking at a big investment. This government is investing over $100,000 a unit now with the access program. Especially now that there's an access program where individuals in these small communities have to buy the unit after it is built by the housing corporation. It's maybe a 20-year mortgage that they have on these houses. If the Minister could respond to that.

Perhaps the Housing Corporation already has fire insurance on these houses because once you mortgage a unit, it belongs to the Housing Corporation until it is purchased; 20 years or 15 years or whatever time it takes it purchase these units. A lot of people in the small communities acquire furniture and appliances, and so forth. All these things cost a great deal of money. The families invest a large amount of money into having a good home just like everybody else. If there is no fire protection, once a fire starts and everything goes, then you have to start all over again with no help from insurance coverage. If the Minister could respond to this problem that we are having in the smaller communities with regard to fire insurance, I would appreciate it. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Committee Motion 40-12(6): To Adopt Recommendation 10, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 577

The Chair Brian Lewis

Thank you, Mr. Antoine. Mr. Morin.

Committee Motion 40-12(6): To Adopt Recommendation 10, Carried
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Page 577

Don Morin Tu Nedhe

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. A letter is waiting for my signature in my office to you on this issue, since you raised it. We worked with Mr. Pollard and Jim Nelson, our vice-president of construction. Mr. Nelson had to go to Calgary to find the right brokers for insurance. It's not only a problem to find somebody but the way the brokers are writing, they weren't covering off the cost of a unit. It was lower. Let's say if a unit was worth $100,000 or $150,000, they would only write the insurance policy for about $100,000 if it was worth $150,000. We had a problem with that. I believe they did find some people that would write insurance up in the communities. I just have to sign the letter off. I haven't even seen it yet. The corporation tells me that.

Committee Motion 40-12(6): To Adopt Recommendation 10, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 577

The Chair Brian Lewis

Thank you, Mr. Morin. I would appreciate it if you responded to the statements through the chair. Mr. Antoine.

Committee Motion 40-12(6): To Adopt Recommendation 10, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 577

Jim Antoine Nahendeh

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I would like to thank the Minister on behalf of everybody that has no fire insurance, for the work that they're doing. It will certainly help them out in the long run if this gets into place. It raises a number of questions and perhaps I could pursue whatever information the Minister has. It would be good if we could acquire it here in the House so that individual Members would know what is going on. There are concerns out there of people who are very aware of this situation and would like to get more information. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Committee Motion 40-12(6): To Adopt Recommendation 10, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 577

The Chair Brian Lewis

Thank you, Mr. Antoine. Mr. Minister, do you have a response to that last statement made by Mr. Antoine? No? Does any other Member have any other general comments, statements, or questions that they want to raise at this stage? Mr. Gargan.

Committee Motion 40-12(6): To Adopt Recommendation 10, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 577

Samuel Gargan Deh Cho

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I still can't figure out how the allocations are done. I've been trying to mix some numbers up here just to determine whether or not the allocation is actually based on need. You've also got a situation, Mr. Chairman, where they do have what they call market communities. Those are larger communities that have housing markets that are available. Mr. Chairman, this year's allocation... the Minister refers to the core need. Look at Fort Liard and Lutsel K'e. Their core needs are both 33 but Fort Liard gets three and Lutsel K'e gets one. I don't know how they base that core need.

The other thing is that last year the Baffin region got 53 and the South Slave got 61. Baffin region has 937 in core need. In the South Slave, there's 559, for just about the same amount of people surveyed: between 2,600 and 2,700. It's pretty close in numbers but for some reason, last year, based on that need, the South Slave still got more, even though the need was more in the Baffin. At least this year, it has changed around a bit. I just can't figure out how you come up with these needs. The same year the survey was done in 1992, Fort Wrigley got 26 units, Hay River got 20 and Providence was next with 15. But, those were all mixed at that time.

I'm saying, Mr. Chairman, that now that we're really in a time where money is scarce, we should try to find the best possible way to address the needs of people, and I don't see that. I can't figure out how they came up with the numbers they did. I find it quite disturbing that Lutsel K'e and Fort Liard, for example, have the same needs but one community gets more than the other.

If you look at the territorial-wide survey between the Baffin and the South Slave, which have the same number of communities, the Baffin requires more than the South Slave, but for some reason, last year after the survey was done, their allocation went down, which meant that the South Slave went up. I appreciate that the South Slave got more, but that still doesn't answer the whole question of need. The Minister keeps referring to basing it on need, but I don't see how the numbers match. It doesn't jibe for some reason.

Committee Motion 40-12(6): To Adopt Recommendation 10, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 577

The Chair Brian Lewis

Okay, Mr. Gargan, there is lots of detail in that comment. Maybe you could try, once again, to explain needs assessment, Mr. Morin.

Committee Motion 40-12(6): To Adopt Recommendation 10, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 577

Don Morin Tu Nedhe

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. The allocation is done according to need. In 1995-96, Fort Liard is going to get two units and Lutsel K'e is going to get two units. It is the same, so the need must be the same. The needs survey says Lutsel K'e needs 33 and Fort Liard is the same. They are the same, that is why they are getting the same amount of units.

What I would like to offer to the Member is a complete briefing on the needs survey and the allocation broken down by percentages, the Housing Corporation has all of that documentation. We can make arrangements with Mr. Gargan to go over all of that with him.

Committee Motion 40-12(6): To Adopt Recommendation 10, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 578

The Chair Brian Lewis

Thank you, Mr. Minister. Mr. Gargan.

Committee Motion 40-12(6): To Adopt Recommendation 10, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 578

Samuel Gargan Deh Cho

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I also asked a written question regarding the allocations for the last five years. I haven't received anything up to now and I would still like to play around with these numbers before we continue with Housing. I don't know how it is done, but I feel something is not right. I can't put my finger on it.

Committee Motion 40-12(6): To Adopt Recommendation 10, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 578

The Chair Brian Lewis

Thank you very much, Mr. Gargan. Mr. Morin.

Committee Motion 40-12(6): To Adopt Recommendation 10, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 578

Don Morin Tu Nedhe

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I will send a letter around to all Members who are interested in knowing about this. We have done this previously, where we have briefed all Members of the Legislative Assembly on the needs survey and the allocation. I would be pleased to do it again.

Committee Motion 40-12(6): To Adopt Recommendation 10, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 578

The Chair Brian Lewis

Thanks for the offer, Mr. Morin. Any further general comments, statements or questions? Are you ready to go into detail? I note that your question, Mr. Gargan, was Written Question 11-12(6). Mr. Gargan.

Committee Motion 40-12(6): To Adopt Recommendation 10, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 578

Samuel Gargan Deh Cho

How do you determine the survey in market communities? I just received a fax from Hay River and Mackenzie Place has some vacancies. Cedar Residence apartments also has a 20 to 30 per cent vacancy rate. The only one that has 100 per cent occupancy rate is the housing authority. There are units available. How do you determine how many Hay River is going to be getting? If you look at your allocations for this year, Hay River is getting the most.

Committee Motion 40-12(6): To Adopt Recommendation 10, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 578

The Chair Brian Lewis

Thank you, Mr. Gargan. Mr. Morin.

Committee Motion 40-12(6): To Adopt Recommendation 10, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 578

Don Morin Tu Nedhe

Hay River's need in the 1992 needs survey was 169. Their allocation this year is 13 units. Thank you.

Committee Motion 40-12(6): To Adopt Recommendation 10, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 578

The Chair Brian Lewis

Thank you, Mr. Morin. Mr. Gargan.

Committee Motion 40-12(6): To Adopt Recommendation 10, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 578

Samuel Gargan Deh Cho

He still didn't answer my question. How do you allocate in communities that have housing markets?

Committee Motion 40-12(6): To Adopt Recommendation 10, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 578

The Chair Brian Lewis

Thank you, Mr. Gargan. I would like to ask you to make all your statements through the chair. Mr. Morin.

Committee Motion 40-12(6): To Adopt Recommendation 10, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 578

Don Morin Tu Nedhe

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Exactly the same way as every other community except for Yellowknife. Thank you.

Committee Motion 40-12(6): To Adopt Recommendation 10, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 578

The Chair Brian Lewis

Thank you, Mr. Morin. Mr. Gargan.

Committee Motion 40-12(6): To Adopt Recommendation 10, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 578

Samuel Gargan Deh Cho

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Then, are you suggesting that every community in the Northwest Territories has a housing market? Mr. Morin.

Committee Motion 40-12(6): To Adopt Recommendation 10, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 578

Don Morin Tu Nedhe

No, I would never say that. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Committee Motion 40-12(6): To Adopt Recommendation 10, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 578

The Chair Brian Lewis

Thank you, Mr. Minister. Mr. Gargan, do you have any further comments, statements or questions? Mr. Gargan.

Committee Motion 40-12(6): To Adopt Recommendation 10, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 578

Samuel Gargan Deh Cho

I didn't hear the response, Mr. Chairman.

Committee Motion 40-12(6): To Adopt Recommendation 10, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 578

The Chair Brian Lewis

Would you like to repeat it, Mr. Morin?

Committee Motion 40-12(6): To Adopt Recommendation 10, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 578

Don Morin Tu Nedhe

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. No.

Committee Motion 40-12(6): To Adopt Recommendation 10, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 578

The Chair Brian Lewis

Thank you, Mr. Morin. Mr. Gargan.

Committee Motion 40-12(6): To Adopt Recommendation 10, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 578

Samuel Gargan Deh Cho

(Microphone turned off)...for a community that has a housing market?

Committee Motion 40-12(6): To Adopt Recommendation 10, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 578

The Chair Brian Lewis

Mr. Morin.

Committee Motion 40-12(6): To Adopt Recommendation 10, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 578

Don Morin Tu Nedhe

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. The only one that CMHC considered a market community was Yellowknife. I think that Fort Smith is borderline for next year. Hay River, Inuvik and Iqaluit are all just about there, according to CMHC's way of doing business and checking things out.

Committee Motion 40-12(6): To Adopt Recommendation 10, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 578

The Chair Brian Lewis

Thank you, Mr. Morin. Mr. Gargan.

Committee Motion 40-12(6): To Adopt Recommendation 10, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 578

Samuel Gargan Deh Cho

So, wouldn't that reduce their numbers, then, if they are just about there?

Committee Motion 40-12(6): To Adopt Recommendation 10, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 578

The Chair Brian Lewis

Mr. Morin.

Committee Motion 40-12(6): To Adopt Recommendation 10, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 578

Don Morin Tu Nedhe

No.

Committee Motion 40-12(6): To Adopt Recommendation 10, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 578

The Chair Brian Lewis

Thank you, Mr. Morin. Mr. Gargan.

Committee Motion 40-12(6): To Adopt Recommendation 10, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 578

Samuel Gargan Deh Cho

(Microphone turned off)

Committee Motion 40-12(6): To Adopt Recommendation 10, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 578

The Chair Brian Lewis

Mr. Morin.

Committee Motion 40-12(6): To Adopt Recommendation 10, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 578

Don Morin Tu Nedhe

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. All communities are treated equally. It is how the Members of this Legislative Assembly directed me to allocate units. Prior to my becoming the Minister of the Housing Corporation, units were allocated with a lot of politics involved. There were different ways of allocating that didn't make a lot of common sense. When we came in during this term of office, we realized that the dollars were very scarce and they were getting scarcer so we carried out an extensive needs survey that documented the need in every community.

I brought that needs survey to the Legislative Assembly. I discussed it in SCOF, I believe and I discussed it with ABCs. All the Members of this Assembly agreed that that is how we are going to allocate units. It isn't up to me. I wouldn't change what the majority of the Members of this Assembly gave me direction to do. That is what I am doing. I am allocating the units according to the 1992 needs survey and I haven't changed that.

Committee Motion 40-12(6): To Adopt Recommendation 10, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 578

The Chair Brian Lewis

Thank you, Mr. Minister. Mr. Gargan.

Committee Motion 40-12(6): To Adopt Recommendation 10, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 578

Samuel Gargan Deh Cho

I appreciate that response, but that isn't consistent with the statement you are making. If you look at the allocation that was done last year and this year, Enterprise gets nothing but Fort Liard goes down one; from three to two. Fort Providence goes down from five to three. Fort Resolution goes down from four to two. Fort Simpson goes down from 11

to six. Fort Smith goes down from 14 to seven. The bulk of the communities are going down by one-half, but for Hay River; it goes down from 14 to 13. Hay River goes from two to nothing. Jean Marie goes from one to nothing again. Kakisa goes from one to nothing. Lutsel K'e goes down half again, from four to two. Nahanni goes up one from two to three. So there are some consistencies. If all the communities are being cut by half, I don't know why Hay River isn't.

Committee Motion 40-12(6): To Adopt Recommendation 10, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 579

The Chair Brian Lewis

Are you finished, Mr. Gargan? I don't know if there was a question there, Mr. Gargan. Mr. Morin, do you want to respond?

Committee Motion 40-12(6): To Adopt Recommendation 10, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 579

Don Morin Tu Nedhe

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. In most cases, the units went down. You must realize that last year, the majority of the units allocated were allocated under the rent supp program. There were 133 of them. We do not have those units in this year's budget. We only have home ownership units and we only have 313 in this budget. Accordingly, that reflects on allocation. I don't have the money for the rent supp units. It is as simple as that.

Committee Motion 40-12(6): To Adopt Recommendation 10, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 579

The Chair Brian Lewis

Thank you, Mr. Morin. Mr. Gargan.

Committee Motion 40-12(6): To Adopt Recommendation 10, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 579

Samuel Gargan Deh Cho

But that excludes the Hay River Reserve, who don't get rent supps. If all the rest of the communities were excluded with regard to that, then the reductions should be equal.

Committee Motion 40-12(6): To Adopt Recommendation 10, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 579

The Chair Brian Lewis

I believe that was a question. Mr. Morin.

Committee Motion 40-12(6): To Adopt Recommendation 10, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 579

Don Morin Tu Nedhe

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I can't answer his question, Mr. Chairman. I don't have the figures in front of me and I don't have the information with me on exactly why one community gets one less or two less. My understanding is these are allocated according to need. The Housing Corporation allocated the units according to need.

I previously offered a full briefing to the Member on the needs survey and allocations.

Committee Motion 40-12(6): To Adopt Recommendation 10, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 579

The Chair Brian Lewis

Thank you. Mr. Gargan.

Committee Motion 40-12(6): To Adopt Recommendation 10, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 579

Samuel Gargan Deh Cho

Mr. Chairman, could you recognize the clock?

Committee Motion 40-12(6): To Adopt Recommendation 10, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 579

The Chair Brian Lewis

I will recognize the clock. I will rise and report progress. Thank you, Mr. Morin, for your help and your witnesses.

Committee Motion 40-12(6): To Adopt Recommendation 10, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 579

The Speaker Jeannie Marie-Jewell

I will call the House back to order. Item 20, report of committee of the whole. The honourable Member for Yellowknife Centre, Mr. Lewis.

Item 20: Report Of Committee Of The Whole
Item 20: Report Of Committee Of The Whole

Page 579

The Chair Brian Lewis

Thank you, Madam Speaker. Your committee has been considering Bill 1 and Committee Report 10-12(6), and would like to report progress with two motions being adopted and, Madam Speaker, I move the report of the committee of the whole be concurred with.

Item 20: Report Of Committee Of The Whole
Item 20: Report Of Committee Of The Whole

Page 579

The Speaker Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Thank you. The seconder for the motion, the honourable Member for Nahendeh, Mr. Antoine.

---Applause

Item 20: Report Of Committee Of The Whole
Item 20: Report Of Committee Of The Whole

Page 579

The Speaker Jeannie Marie-Jewell

To the motion.

Item 20: Report Of Committee Of The Whole
Item 20: Report Of Committee Of The Whole

Page 579

An Hon. Member

Question.

Item 20: Report Of Committee Of The Whole
Item 20: Report Of Committee Of The Whole

Page 579

The Speaker Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Question is being called. All those in favour? All those opposed? The motion is carried.

---Carried

Item 21, third reading of bills. Madam Premier.

Item 20: Report Of Committee Of The Whole
Item 20: Report Of Committee Of The Whole

Page 579

Nellie Cournoyea Nunakput

Madam Speaker, I request permission to return to item 8, written questions.

Item 20: Report Of Committee Of The Whole
Item 20: Report Of Committee Of The Whole

Page 579

The Speaker Jeannie Marie-Jewell

The honourable Member is seeking unanimous consent to return to written questions. Are there any nays? There are no nays. Please proceed.

Return To Written Question 2-12(6): Elders' Residences Operated By The GNWT
Revert To Item 8: Returns To Written Questions

Page 579

Nellie Cournoyea Nunakput

Madam Speaker, I have a provisional return to a question asked by Mr. Ng...

---Applause

Madam Speaker, the information requested by Mr. Ng has taken some time to compile and cannot be ready for the due date of the return on October 27, 1994. A return will be filed on or before Monday, October 31, 1994. Thank you, Madam Speaker.

---Applause

Return To Written Question 2-12(6): Elders' Residences Operated By The GNWT
Revert To Item 8: Returns To Written Questions

Page 579

The Speaker Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Thank you. Item 21, third reading of bills. Mr. Clerk, orders of the day.

Item 22: Orders Of The Day
Item 22: Orders Of The Day

Page 579

Clerk Of The House Mr. David Hamilton

Madam Speaker, a meeting of the Ordinary Members' Caucus at 9:00 am tomorrow morning.

Orders of the day for Friday, October 28th.

1. Prayer

2. Ministers' Statements

3. Members' Statements

4. Returns to Oral Questions

5. Recognition of Visitors in the Gallery

6. Oral Questions 7. Written Questions

8. Returns to Written Questions

9. Replies to Opening Address

10. Petitions

11. Reports of Standing and Special Committees

12. Reports of Committees on the Review of Bills

13. Tabling of Documents

14. Notices of Motion

15. Notices of Motions for First Reading of Bills

16. Motions

17. First Reading of Bills

- Bill 18, Supplementary Appropriation Act, No. 4, 1993-94

18. Second Reading of Bills

- Bill 20, Student Financial Assistance Act

19. Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

- Tabled Document 14-12(6), "Open for Business" - Privatizing the Northwest Territories Power

Corporation

- Tabled Document 23-12(6), Report of the 1993-94

Electoral District Boundaries Commission

Northwest Territories

- Tabled Document 36-12(6), "Action Plan -

Consolidation - Health and Social Services"

- Minister's Statement 11-12(6), Return to Session

- Committee Report 10-12(6), Report on the Review

of the 1995-96 Capital Estimates

- Committee Report 11-12(6), Report on the First

Annual Report (1992-93) of the Languages

Commissioner of the NWT

- Bill 1, Appropriation Act, No. 1, 1995-96

- Bill 2, Aboriginal Custom Adoption Recognition Act

- Bill 3, Guardianship and Trusteeship Act

- Bill 7, An Act to Amend the Arctic College Act

- Bill 8, An Act to Amend the Public Utilities Act

- Bill 15, An Act to Amend the Legislative Assembly and Executive Council Act

20. Report of Committee of the Whole

21. Third Reading of Bills

22. Orders of the Day

Item 22: Orders Of The Day
Item 22: Orders Of The Day

Page 580

The Speaker Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Thank you. This House stands adjourned until Friday, October 28th at 10:00 am.

---ADJOURNMENT