This is page numbers 1217 - 1274 of the Hansard for the 13th Assembly, 3rd Session. The original version can be accessed on the Legislative Assembly's website or by contacting the Legislative Assembly Library. The word of the day was community.

Topics

Members Present

Hon. Goo Arlooktoo, Mr. Barnabas, Hon. Charles Dent, Mr. Enuaraq, Mr. Erasmus, Mr. Evaloarjuk, Hon. Samuel Gargan, Mrs. Groenewegen, Mr. Henry, Hon. Stephen Kakfwi, Mr. Krutko, Mr. Miltenberger, Hon. Don Morin, Hon. Kelvin Ng, Mr. O'Brien, Mr. Ootes, Mr. Picco, Mr. Roland, Mr. Steen, Hon. Manitok Thompson, Hon. John Todd.

Item 1: Prayer
Item 1: Prayer

Page 1217

The Speaker

I wish to thank Elisha and Komo for performing the traditional Inuit spiritual song to open our session today. Elisha and Komo are from Iqaluit. I would also like to thank the Deputy Premier for making the arrangement. Thank you.

Orders of the day, Ministers' statements, Mr. Premier.

Minister's Statement 118-13(3): Minister Absent From The House
Item 2: Ministers' Statements

Page 1217

Don Morin Tu Nedhe

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I wish to advise members that the Honourable Jim Antoine will be absent from the House today to attend a funeral in Fort Simpson. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Minister's Statement 118-13(3): Minister Absent From The House
Item 2: Ministers' Statements

Page 1217

The Speaker

Thank you, Mr. Morin. Ministers' Statements, Mr. Dent.

Minister's Statement 119-13(3): Mining Training Initiatives
Item 2: Ministers' Statements

Page 1217

Charles Dent

Charles Dent Yellowknife Frame Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker, good afternoon. We all want to make sure that northerners benefit from current high levels of mineral activity and particularly from the many mines that will be established in the future. This Government is very active in the area of training for jobs in the mining industry. I want to bring the Assembly up to date on some of the initiatives that are being undertaken.

Training programs must proceed in a coordinated manner and they must meet the needs of industry and northerners. During the summer, I established a Committee on the mining sector, to give me advice on how to improve the development and delivery of mine training. The Committee includes industry, government and Aboriginal representatives. The Committee has met regularly during the past several months and initiatives are proceeding in a number of areas. The Department of Education, Culture and Employment has invested $300,000 this year to support mine training programs delivered by the public colleges. Aurora College has developed a pre-employment mine training program, that has produced a number of successful graduates in several communities.

Mr. Speaker, 22 students successfully completed a six-week job-shadowing course sponsored by the Community Mobilization Group, in which the Department is a partner, along with the private sector and other Government departments. The Department assisted with funding for courses in Kugluktuk and Hay River which gave participants a better understanding of the job opportunities available and helped them build practical skills. The Department is sponsoring similar programs in Rae Lakes, N'dilo and Detah.

Small business management courses are being run in Rae, Rae Lakes, N'dilo and Detah to prepare people to set up their own businesses to provide services to the mining industry.

As well, the Department is co-operating with a number of partners to provide a pre-engineering technology program through Aurora College. Fifteen students are enroled and we anticipate that the graduates will have direct access to engineering programs at Northern Alberta Institute of Technology.

The Department is also working with several partners to deliver a 12-week heavy equipment operator program in Yellowknife for 10 people. The partnership includes the North Slave Metis Alliance, BHP Diamonds, RTL Robinson Enterprises, and Aurora College. The College has also developed a mill operator training course and prospector training.

Mr. Speaker, the NWT Apprenticeship Program continues to be an important means of preparing northern residents for jobs in the mining industry. Education, Culture and Employment is supporting PCL Construction in its work to identify and train apprentices at the BHP mine site.

To ensure northerners know about the variety of jobs and training opportunities in the mining industry, the Department has developed a booklet called "Jobs in Mining." It has been distributed to career centres, schools, adult education centres and college campuses. Aurora College has also developed a handbook that describes the college programs that will help prepare people for these jobs.

Mr. Speaker, growth in the mining industry will continue to translate into jobs for northerners. NWT residents are ready, willing and able to take those jobs. Because of this Government's initiatives, considerably more will be well-prepared in the very near future. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Minister's Statement 119-13(3): Mining Training Initiatives
Item 2: Ministers' Statements

Page 1218

The Speaker

Thank you, Mr. Dent. Ministers' Statements, Mr. Ng.

Minister's Statement 120-13(3): National Foster Family Week
Item 2: Ministers' Statements

Page 1218

Kelvin Ng Kitikmeot

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker National Foster Family Week runs from October 20 to October 26.

In recognition of this week, the Department of Health and Social Services, the Government of the Northwest Territories and the people of the north would like to extend their gratitude to foster families.

Foster families care for children in need and contribute to protecting our children and our future.

Fostering is a challenging and demanding responsibility, and requires great courage and energy from those involved.

Communities and the child welfare system depend on foster families, whose services allow children to remain in their community when they cannot live with their own families.

It is also important that children be placed with foster families from the same cultural background wherever possible.

Although every community needs foster families, some communities do not have enough families willing to perform this important service. This means that some children will have to leave their own community to get the care they need, disrupting their school and support system.

I hope more families will join the fostering program so children in need can have a better chance at success as they will receive quality care in a stable environment until they can return to their family home.

Mr. Speaker, I call on the Members of this House to join with me in recognizing foster families for their efforts, diligence, and tireless caring. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Minister's Statement 120-13(3): National Foster Family Week
Item 2: Ministers' Statements

Page 1218

The Speaker

Thank you, Mr. Ng. Ministers' statements, Mr. Kakfwi.

Minister's Statement 121-13(3): Financial Support For Economic Development
Item 2: Ministers' Statements

Page 1218

Stephen Kakfwi

Stephen Kakfwi Sahtu

Mr. Speaker, on Wednesday we acknowledged the important role small business plays in our lives. Business people and their employees represent just over half of our northern workforce. It is within the mandate of the Department of Resources, Wildlife and Economic Development to provide financial assistance and support to aid in the expansion of this essential part of our economy. Mr. Speaker, I would like to highlight what we are doing

with respect to financial support to stimulate the small business sector.

In the last six months, the department has approved 147 grants to small businesses totalling $300,000. Eligible businesses are small and include arts and crafts producers, commercial renewable resource harvesters and other businesses, most of which would be considered "cottage industry."

The Business Development Fund offers larger sized contributions to businesses for such purposes as business plans, start up costs, market and product development and improving business skills. Since April 1996, 208 contributions, total $2,682,561, have been awarded to some 200 northern businesses. Through this program Wha Ti Development Corporation has purchased surveying equipment and will offer survey training to local residents. An Aklavik resident is establishing a local tourism venture. A Pangnirtung resident is starting a welding business and Pelly Bay businessman is attending a financial business management workshop.

As Minister of Resources, Wildlife and Economic Development, I am also responsible for two corporations that are important players in stimulating economic development. The NWT Business Credit Corporation provides loans to territorial businesses, In 1995 the Corporation provided 85 loans for a total of $8 million, so far this year, 49 loans totalling $3,900,000 have been approved.

The Northwest Territories Development Corporation manages businesses in 19 of the smaller communities. About 400 people are employed through these operations.

Mr. Speaker, our Government knows that growth of our economy depends upon the private sector. The Northwest Territories is rich with natural resources. With their knowledge of the land, northerners have some special abilities that can be applied to mineral exploration. One of our small but successful programs, has been providing grubstakes and training for potential prospectors. This year, training courses were held in Arviat and Kimmirut and $90,000 have been provided to 22 prospectors.

The last area I would like to highlight is the traditional economy. This is the oldest sector in our economy, so I suppose we could say that the men and women operating in this sector are the longest established independent business persons in the Northwest Territories. They harvest the bounty of the land and waters using the results of their labour and experience to feed themselves and their families. They manufacture products for their own use and to sell to others. Some of their effort may generate some seasonal income. The work these people do is not always recorded in the employment and income statistics, but it is an important part of our economy. The estimate value of the wildlife harvest alone, excluding commercial operations, is over $35,000,000 a year. We know that over 90% of Aboriginal households participate in these activities and this work fulfils the same basic needs for food, clothing and shelter as wages and profits do in the wage economy. As well, these activities maintain the traditions and skills of our northern cultures.

To support the traditional economy, approximately $1,000,000 has been provided this year to purchase equipment, access harvesting areas, encourage trappers to produce well-handled, high quality furs, teach harvesting skills and conduct organized hunts for communities. For seven years, the Department has also provided funding for projects that demonstrate new ways to use renewable resources or promote environmental protection. Since the beginning of the fiscal year 30 projects have received a total of $80,000 to test outpost camp incinerators in Southern Baffin, to test a heater that will use waste oil in Inuvik, and to conduct salt water fishery tests for cod in Hudson Bay. Regional land claim organizations and communities are also developing their harvester support initiatives by matching funds with the $5 million they will receive from the Department.

Mr. Speaker, this government is committed to expanding and strengthening the northern economy. These are a few examples of how public funds are working to benefit our residents and economy. Thank you.

Minister's Statement 121-13(3): Financial Support For Economic Development
Item 2: Ministers' Statements

Page 1220

The Speaker

Thank you, Mr. Kakfwi. Ministers' statements, Mr. Ng.

Minister's Statement 122-13(3): Addictions Services Reform
Item 2: Ministers' Statements

Page 1220

Kelvin Ng Kitikmeot

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, today I would like to provide the members with an update on Addiction Services Reform.

The Department of Health and Social Services has undertaken an extensive review of the way in which it administers Addictions Services.

While the Department has traditionally allocated large amounts of funding to address the problems of addiction, there have been varying perceptions as to the effectiveness of this program.

The reforms will address some historical funding equities, such as the over- and under-funding of community programs, and the lack of services for youth, while at the same time encouraging greater community ownership of community problem, and potential solutions.

I would like to provide Members with a brief summary of the steps the Department is taking.

The Department is reviewing the feasibility of formula funding Addictions Services to communities.

We will continue to move towards per diem treatment centre funding. There are alternative ways of doing this, which we will explore.

These are extremely complex issues and Department staff are presently reviewing the implications of moving control for Addictions Services to communities and regions.

In two years time we anticipate that treatment centres will be 100% funded on the basis of a fee-for-service.

This process will result in treatment centres being more responsive to people's needs and offering a broader range of services. As well, it will allow centres to explore other markets.

Mr. Speaker, the Department also recognizes the need for early intervention and is therefore committed to directing more funding to youth services.

Initiatives like youth treatment will be supported; however, to do this existing addictions funding will have to be re-profiled.

We must move to address addictions' issues when they first emerge, rather than waiting for them to escalate into full-blown treatment situations.

We will address the issue of fetal alcohol syndrome and fetal alcohol effect and try to prevent these problems, rather than allocating our resources to deal with them when they have already occurred.

Mr. Speaker, the referral process is also being reviewed and a much less confusing system will be in place by the new year.

Community-based addictions projects standards and treatment centre standards will be in place for the new fiscal year.

These will provide long-needed guidelines for staff and the ability to monitor program effectiveness on an ongoing basis.

System reform should promote greater accountability for funding, improved after-care for clients, and a clear justification for why communities are funded at specific levels.

Mr. Speaker, many of the changes I have discussed have financial implications, however, it is very important to note that these changes will improve Addiction Services to those requiring treatment. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Minister's Statement 122-13(3): Addictions Services Reform
Item 2: Ministers' Statements

Page 1220

The Speaker

Thank you, Mr. Ng. Minister's Statements, Ms. Thompson.

Minister's Statement 123-13(3): Community Name Changes
Item 2: Ministers' Statements

Page 1221

Manitok Thompson Aivilik

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. In my culture when babies are constantly upset or ill we change their names. We change their names to give the babies a new life and a new more positive attitude. I am not suggesting that changing a name is always used when there is a problem. What I am saying is that in my culture we are used to changing names. We will often change a name to suit a new situation.

Mr. Speaker, it is with great pleasure that I stand today to recognize the name change of Coppermine to Kugluktuk, which in my language might mean that there is falls over there - water falls, and Lake Harbour to Kimmirut, and there might be a place there that looks like a hill according to the name change. While the former names have great historical value, they did not recognize the traditional names that have been used by the peoples of these areas.

Mr. Speaker, these name changes also recognize that communities are taking great pride in their traditions and culture. These names are not new. They have been used for generations by the people who live there. These names have more geographic meaning. They express a cultural and social meaning to the people.

Mr. Speaker, I ask you and all the Members of this Assembly to join me in congratulating the people of Kugluktuk and Kimmirut for these historic name changes. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Minister's Statement 123-13(3): Community Name Changes
Item 2: Ministers' Statements

Page 1221

The Speaker

Thank you, Ms. Thompson. Ministers' statements. Members' statements, Mrs. Groenewegen.

Draft Constitution Package For The New Western Territory
Item 2: Ministers' Statements

Page 1221

Jane Groenewegen

Jane Groenewegen Hay River

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. The people of the Western Territory have an opportunity before us. A committee of western MLAs and Aboriginal leaders have met over the summer months and have released a Draft Constitution for public consultation. I trust everyone agrees that it would be good to dwell together in harmony and unity.

The guiding principles are the foundation of partners in a new beginning. If we agree to these principles, we have a good start.

The model being presented is a draft. As much as I doubt that the majority of my constituents will embrace this specific model, I recognize that Aboriginal leaders will face similar challenges in arriving at a deal that their constituents can support.

It will only be a good and workable alliance if all parties can willingly participate because they see the proposal as balanced and fair. Let us stay focused on what we are trying to achieve bringing public and Aboriginal self-government together in partnership.

Representation is a key issue, because the people see it as their vehicle of significant, and clearly defined, participation through elections. A large and costly central government is contrary to the trend of the diminishing role of our central government. Communities through community empowerment and regional Aboriginal self-government through devolution of powers and authorities are assuming more and more control.

Powers of the central government are supposed to flow up from the communities and the regions as opposed to powers being devolved downwards. In that regard, in this draft, I do not necessarily see protection for those governments. I have no problem with guaranteed representation in a partnership agreement, however, I believe that there may be more equitable models of representation presented in the original one-house and two-house models contained in appendices, other models considered.

The demographics of the 14 existing ridings, ranging from populations of 800 to over 4,000, is already fairly generous in terms of regional representation. Ten of the 14 ridings are predominantly Aboriginal in make up and will continue to be for some time to come. To add eight guaranteed Aboriginal seats to this mix raises the question of perception of fairness and balance.

I also have some concerns regarding ratification of the constitution, but it may be premature to address this until a plan has been proposed and defined.

Draft Constitution Package For The New Western Territory
Item 2: Ministers' Statements

Page 1222

The Speaker

Your time is up.

Draft Constitution Package For The New Western Territory
Item 2: Ministers' Statements

Page 1222

Jane Groenewegen

Jane Groenewegen Hay River

I would like to seek unanimous consent to conclude my statement. Thank you.

Draft Constitution Package For The New Western Territory
Item 2: Ministers' Statements

Page 1222

The Speaker

Member for Hay River is seeking unanimous consent to conclude her statement. Do we have any nays? There are no nays, Mrs. Groenewegen, you have unanimous consent.

Draft Constitution Package For The New Western Territory
Item 2: Ministers' Statements

Page 1222

Jane Groenewegen

Jane Groenewegen Hay River

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. A lot of work has gone into this document. It is based on good principles. It would be a shame to see it break down, but concerns on all sides must be respectfully addressed. I remain confident that northerners have the capacity to do that. We need to ask the necessary questions, we need to search for the right answers, and we need to do that together. If we proceed with good faith, with common sense, and with a willingness to hear and observe other points of view, our chances of being collectively successful will increase considerably. I look forward to returning to my constituency and starting this process of consultation. Thank you.

Draft Constitution Package For The New Western Territory
Item 2: Ministers' Statements

Page 1222

The Speaker

Thank you, Mrs. Groenewegen. Members' statements, Mr. Steen.

Draft Constitution Package For The New Western Territory
Item 2: Ministers' Statements

Page 1222

Vince Steen

Vince Steen Nunakput

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I wish to take this opportunity to thank the members of the Constitutional Working Group for all the time and effort they have put towards the presentation of this Draft Constitutional Proposal. It should be noted, however, that this is only a draft proposal for discussion purposes only, and that the document in question still requires endorsement of each individual Aboriginal group.

Mr. Speaker, my statement today has more to do with the ratification process. In a recent western caucus meeting, a member of this Cabinet strongly suggested that the ratification process may not be a plebiscite of one man - one vote, but rather block voting by the concerned groups on the name for the new territory. This option was again voiced in the recent Constitutional Development Steering Committee in regards to the ratification of the constitution in total.

I also have here, Mr. Speaker, a memo from the chair of the Western Caucus suggesting a meeting on options for ratification of the new constitution.

Mr. Speaker, this Government and this country as a whole, has in place an accepted form of ratification called the public plebiscite, and I for one will not even consider any other form of ratification than one man - one vote. This issue of Division of this territory was decided in this manner. It follows that ratification of the constitution of the new territory should follow the same pattern.

Mr. Speaker, I would not support funding of the ratification process, other than the normal and accepted form. I would also not support funding at the Constitutional Working Group, as this group will be touring the communities for the following reasons:

1. The group would be seen and perceived as the group responsible for selling this proposal to the public.

2. That in these times of restraint financing... Mr. Speaker, I would request unanimous consent to finish my statement.

Draft Constitution Package For The New Western Territory
Item 2: Ministers' Statements

Page 1222

The Speaker

The member for Nunakput is seeking unanimous consent to conclude his statement. Do we have any nays? There are no nays. You have unanimous consent, Mr. Steen.

Draft Constitution Package For The New Western Territory
Item 2: Ministers' Statements

Page 1223

Vince Steen

Vince Steen Nunakput

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

2. In these times of restraint financing, we as a government cannot afford the funds set for a large touring group, while at the same time we cut 3 or 400 positions.

Mr. Speaker, I could and would, however, support funding a small panel of three impartial persons with constitutional background experience to undertake the responsibility of touring the communities and seek comments and in the end bring back to this House a final draft for consideration and ratification by the public at large.

Mr. Speaker, I am concerned as to what the position of this Government is in regards to an accepted democratic constitutional process, and I will be asking the Premier for his position on this at the appropriate time today. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Draft Constitution Package For The New Western Territory
Item 2: Ministers' Statements

Page 1223

The Speaker

Thank you, Mr. Steen. Members' statements, Mr. Henry.

Draft Constitution Package For The New Western Territory
Item 2: Ministers' Statements

Page 1223

Seamus Henry Yellowknife South

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Yesterday the process of developing a constitution for the new Western Territory took a big step forward with the release of the Proposed Draft Constitution. We all know that this is not a perfect document. In fact, the final constitution of the Western Territory may very well be quite different, but it will serve as a starting point for public discussion.

The citizens of the Western Territory now have the opportunity to study the proposal, to look at some alternatives, and to make suggestions and criticisms if necessary. There are elements of this proposal that many will appreciate. On the other hand, there are many elements that many will find distasteful. While I hope the debate over the constitution will be civil, I do not expect it to be one-sided. I am quite prepared to listen to feedback from all residents of the western NWT even though I know much of the feedback will disagree with the proposal or will disagree with my thoughts and opinions on our future constitution.

Anyone who thinks this draft constitution is going to sail smoothly through the seas of public opinion is sorely mistaken. So, for any Member of this House to respond to criticism of the draft proposal with demeaning or disrespectful comments is completely unacceptable. I sincerely hope that every Honourable Member in this House can keep an open mind in preparation for the feedback that will come from the public regarding this draft proposal.

One of our Honourable colleagues from the east often tells us, and this House, about the need to have a thick skin. Well, he is right. We are not here to assume that the public will always agree with us or even that we will always agree with each other. We have to be adult enough to accept criticism, to treat it with respect and to use it as a base for debate and discussion that will lead to solutions that will benefit all northerners. To do otherwise is small minded and petty and I expect better from my Honourable colleagues in this House. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Draft Constitution Package For The New Western Territory
Item 2: Ministers' Statements

Page 1223

The Speaker

Thank you, Mr. Henry. Members' statements, Mr. Miltenberger.

The Need To Identify Government Subsidies When Reviewing Business Plans
Item 2: Ministers' Statements

Page 1223

Michael Miltenberger

Michael Miltenberger Thebacha

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, beginning on Saturday, Members of this House will be looking at the Business Plans for 1997/98. Over the past year many of us have stressed the need for an integrated approach to managing the budget.

It is not enough for departments to look at individual programs, we need to look at how these programs interact with other programs across the Government.

One area which is clearly tied to this idea of integration and which has not received any attention is the whole area of subsidies. After making queries in the standing committee meetings, it is apparent that, as a government, we do not have a comprehensive list of the many subsidies that we provide. As a government we do not know where all the subsidies are and more importantly how they are linked. The subsidies seem to be created by the Minister in an uncoordinated fashion. No one is looking at the big picture it would appear. It is quite possible that there is significant duplication, overlap, in these subsidies that we provide the individuals, communities and organizations.

However, unless we know what the subsidies are, we cannot find that out. This is an area we need to look at during our view of the Business Plans. Mr. Speaker, I have some preliminary work on a list of subsidies, at first glance, it would appear that we provide subsidies to the tune of about $200,000,000 a year. I intend to provide this list to all Members of this House and hope it is useful in providing at least, a starting point when looking at subsidies.

The second year of the Deficit Management Plan will be very difficult, if there is potential in subsidies to eliminate duplication or approve coordination of support we need to look at. Let us not leave this stone unturned because there is no official list to guide us. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

The Need To Identify Government Subsidies When Reviewing Business Plans
Item 2: Ministers' Statements

Page 1224

The Speaker

Thank you, Mr. Miltenberger. Members' statements, Mr. Rabesca.

Community Empowerment
Item 2: Ministers' Statements

Page 1224

Rabesca

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I rise today to try to understand some of my colleagues' concerns over Community Empowerment.

Over the past number of years, this Government, in one form or another, has supported the idea of government services, the best job of the people within the communities. It is the community organization and community leaders that have the best knowledge of the residents and how best to service them. This initiative has been called many different things over the past years.

The one window approach is one of the first recently with the previous government, it was called community transfers, and now it is called community empowerment. Each initiative has its own good points and bad points. But as a whole, communities have the benefit, benefit considerably from this type of devolution.

As this Government has evolved and has become more responsible for its finances, so have the communities. They understand what is required to take on more responsibility and if the community can demonstrate their expertise, knowledge and their willingness to take on extra duties, then we should be encouraging them, not chastising, this from some of my colleagues.

In closing, Mr. Speaker, I encourage all communities to investigate areas that they feel comfortable in taking control. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Community Empowerment
Item 2: Ministers' Statements

Page 1224

The Speaker

Thank you, Mr. Rabesca. Members' statements, Mr. Krutko.

Concerns Regarding The Purchase Of Land In The Mackenzie Delta Constituency
Item 2: Ministers' Statements

Page 1224

David Krutko

David Krutko Mackenzie Delta

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I have been receiving a lot of concerns over the last couple of weeks in regard to purchasing land in the Mackenzie Delta. The homeowners in my constituency have been leasing property for their homes for many years now. This costs in the area of thousands, if not millions of dollars of rent for property that they have been occupying for their houses. The Gwich'in Inuvialuit have traditionally lived on and been there from time immemorial.

Initially it was the Federal Government's responsibility for paying the property taxes on behalf of Aboriginal people occupying Federal lands. Now that land claim agreements are in place, my constituents are still paying for land through leases only worth a couple of thousand dollars. I have recently been informed by the Minister, Municipal and Community Affairs in regard to this. The Minister openly admits that pricing is not for the land, but capital improvements. How much capital improvements are suppose to continue? As taxpayers, my constituency do not deem it necessary to pay full time engineers, surveyors, project officers, et cetera. to design gravel roads with a 30 km speed limit. The government has been running ineffectively for the past number of years, yet, the constituency continues to pay for leases of property for this inefficiency.

My constituents have been waiting since May for a reply as to why they cannot outright purchase the land their homes have been sitting on for decades. We will have a question for the Minister on this. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Concerns Regarding The Purchase Of Land In The Mackenzie Delta Constituency
Item 2: Ministers' Statements

Page 1225

The Speaker

Thank you, Mr. Krutko. Members' Statements, Mr. Picco.

Information Being Sought By Ordinary Members
Item 2: Ministers' Statements

Page 1225

Edward Picco Iqaluit

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Since the House began sitting on October 2, we have had some, at times, heated debate from the capital expenditures to community empowerment. By questioning the government on these and other matters, members have shown the public that debate, requested by electorate, has occurred.

Appearing in News North, Nunatsiaq, The Hub, or the Inuvik Drum, makes my day. But, seriously, Mr. Speaker, when I review the Hansard each day, the questions put by the ordinary members are concise and, in most cases, suitable for all audiences.

Compare if you would, Mr. Speaker, debates with some of these same members with the 9th, 10th or 11th Assembly and you will see some of the same issues debated again and, surprisingly enough, it depends upon which the side of the House you are sitting on when you made those statements for and against.

I have had calls from some Mayors in the West, asking why I am against community empowerment. Mr. Speaker, I have never said I was against community empowerment but I am against the current speed and process. As some members know, I was a member of the first Community Justice Committee, set up in the eastern arctic more than six years ago. That is community empowerment. I would like to see all contracts, leases and sole-source contracts published like other jurisdictions, like B.C., the amalgamation of DPW, Transportation, the Housing Corp. needs to be debated.

Today the feds do not fund or build social housing units. But with a federal election coming next spring, they might begin to fund and build social housing. But, we will not have a dedicated department, because it has been amalgamated. Mr. Speaker, all these areas have been talked about over the past couple of weeks.

The role of the ordinary Member is to provide the check and balance needed, making sense of this Government. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Information Being Sought By Ordinary Members
Item 2: Ministers' Statements

Page 1225

The Speaker

Thank you, Mr. Picco, Members' statements, Mr. Ootes.

Draft Constitution Package For The New Western Territory
Item 2: Ministers' Statements

Page 1225

Jake Ootes

Jake Ootes Yellowknife Centre

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I am glad to get a chance to talk to you today, Mr. Speaker. You are the only person I know of who is not running around today with an opinion on the Draft Constitution Package, and I appreciate your restraint. I

have opinions myself, do not doubt that. There are things I like about the Draft, and there are things I do not like about the Draft. But, I am not too worried about what I think at this point. My job right now is to get out to my community. I need to hear the opinions and concerns of the people of Yellowknife Centre. I want to help my constituents understand this package, it contains a lot of information and subtleties that may not be immediately apparent to people who do not follow politics closely.

Let me give you an example, I have been hearing a lot of talk in the last day on guaranteed representation for Dene and Metis people. It is an unusual concept and has caused a bit of controversy already. But, this package attempts, and I stress the word "attempts" to balance off guaranteed representation by giving non-Aboriginal MLAs a voice in the self-government process. Does this mean the proposed process is fair? That is a really good question. Northerners will have a chance to answer questions like that for themselves in public consultation sessions and meeting with MLAs. My voice is but one amongst thousands of equal voices. Mr. Speaker, I am looking forward to the end of this session, it will give me a chance to hit the streets and start talking to people I represent.

In fact, my Yellowknife colleagues and I are hosting an Open House tomorrow at our Constituency Office. We will be distributing copies of the Constitutional Draft and meeting informally with the public. I am very interested in the opinions of my constituents and I will bring their voices and opinions forward in our November session. I was very interested in the proposal made today by Mr. Steen for an independent group of three people to consult the public in regard to the consultation on the Constitution and, I think, this deserves consideration like other ideas that will come forward. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Draft Constitution Package For The New Western Territory
Item 2: Ministers' Statements

Page 1226

The Speaker

Thank you, Mr. Ootes. Members' statements, Mr. Ningark.

Kitikmeot Inuit Association Discussions Regarding Young People
Item 2: Ministers' Statements

Page 1226

Ningark

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I had the privilege of attending Kitikmeot Inuit Association in Gjoa Haven on October 15 and 16. Many issues were brought forth to the Assembly. Many very important issues, one issue that struck me in one presentation from the group was the young people attending Kitikmeot Inuit Association, I would like to thank Kitikmeot Inuit Association for inviting the youth from Kitikmeot region, allowing the youth to make a presentation. Mr. Speaker, there is a willingness among the young people of Kitikmeot, and the elders from Kitikmeot, to work together. There is a willingness of the Kitikmeot Inuit Association to listen to the young people of Kitikmeot Region.

Mr. Speaker, many important issues coming from the young people were brought to our attention. I have the opportunity and am privileged to have listened to some of the very important comments from the young people. Some of the issues that were brought up were teen pregnancy, suicide among teens, the young people wanting to have more youth representation on boards, which sometimes we seem to overlook. Young people want to have more insight in the communities across the NWT, and young people were speaking from the Kitikmeot Region.

Young people wanting to have more follow-up when a young person, or young people, attend meetings, or board meetings, they wanted to have more follow up. I think sometimes I tend to forget what we hear from the young people because we are not paying attention to our future.

Mr. Speaker, young people want to have more drop-in centres in their communities. More importantly they want to have resources from the Government, from the community government, from the regional government, from their Aboriginal organizations, which we do not seem to be doing. Since we always talk about young people being our future, Mr. Speaker, this is the time that we do something about our future. Thank you.

Kitikmeot Inuit Association Discussions Regarding Young People
Item 2: Ministers' Statements

Page 1227

The Speaker

Thank you, Mr. Ningark. Members' Statements, Mr. Roland.

The Need To Communicate The Positive Aspects Of The Deficit Recovery Plan
Item 2: Ministers' Statements

Page 1227

Floyd Roland

Floyd Roland Inuvik

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I rise today to discuss an item that needs serious consideration. Although we will be looking at Business Plans during the following week, and looking at more reductions, I think we need, at times, to look at what we are doing, as a Government. Are we focusing on the quality of life for the people of the NWT, or are we focusing on numbers? As ordinary MLA's are we looking at what we will have set up in the communities, or what we would like to say we are going to do?

We need to focus on what is realistic and what is a goal. We have many goals, Mr. Speaker, but only a few are realistic. As I attended a meeting in my constituency over the past weekend, I know a lot of people are concerned with the future. They understand that things have to change and most understand that reduction is going to occur. They are concerned with how those reductions are going to occur. Well, I think at the same time, we need to send a message out to the people that in the future there are opportunities, and we need to point out what we are doing that is good for the people, not only what is bad.

As I said before, change, good or bad, brings stress, and nobody likes to deal with that side of change. Mr. Speaker, I think, as all Members of this Assembly, we need to give a more positive message out there, what we are doing is for the benefit, of not only the generation today, but of the generations to come. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

The Need To Communicate The Positive Aspects Of The Deficit Recovery Plan
Item 2: Ministers' Statements

Page 1227

The Speaker

Thank you, Mr. Roland. Members' Statements. Members' Statements, Mr. Erasmus.

Proposal To Establish A Mining Institute
Item 2: Ministers' Statements

Page 1227

Roy Erasmus Yellowknife North

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. My statement today is on a Mining Institute and I listened with pleasure to the statement that the Minister made earlier concerning the training initiatives in the mining industry; however, I think that we have to do a bit more than has been done so far.

Mr. Speaker, I believe we need a concerted effort to take advantage of all these job positions. We need technicians, we need to be able to put a couple of years towards a degree or college diploma. I still think that Yellowknife is the best place to put this. People from the smaller communities could come here. We know that there are two mines right here in Yellowknife and other outlying mines in the neighbourhood where people could do their practicums, and I think that it could be quite well done.

We know that within these last impact benefit agreements there has been a precedent set. Mr. Speaker, I seek unanimous consent to conclude my Statement.

Proposal To Establish A Mining Institute
Item 2: Ministers' Statements

Page 1227

The Speaker

The Member from Yellowknife North is seeking unanimous consent to conclude his statement. Do we have any nays. There are no nays. You have unanimous consent, Mr. Erasmus.

Proposal To Establish A Mining Institute
Item 2: Ministers' Statements

Page 1228

Roy Erasmus Yellowknife North

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. As I indicated I believe that this government has helped to set a precedent, as impact benefit agreements with the mining industry that wishes to open new mines, and that is so that the people of the outlying communities will be guaranteed jobs in those new mines; however, guaranteeing jobs in the mines is not going to help people if they are not trained in that area. We need meaningful training to take advantage, Mr. Speaker.

That training, without training, even with training, we cannot possibly fill all the jobs from the people in the communities, the smaller communities. There is not enough people that are interested to work in the mines. So, we are going to have to train other people, as well. That includes the larger centres: Yellowknife, Hay River, Rankin Inlet, if they want, whatever.

As I was saying there are a lot of jobs out there and I am not just talking about pre-employment, I am talking about training people in prospecting, millwork, mine safety, mechanics, electrical, miners, trammers, hoistmen, surveyors, engineers, truck drivers, mill operators, mechanical engineering technologists and technicians, welding engineers and technologists, industrial maintenance mechanics and other mechanical and welding skills, millwright mechanics, heavy duty equipment mechanics. All these are areas that require training, Mr. Speaker.

I appreciate what the Minister of Education is attempting to do with his very, very, limited budget, but that is not enough, Mr. Speaker. We have to take the bull by the horns, we have to put some real money into training and it is the rest of us here, that have to agree, that the Minister can have this money so that he can put some real training in place. Possibly to start a mining institute, if not a mining institute, at least, a large branch of the college that could look specifically into this area.

Mr. Speaker, we all know that as soon as the college institutes some types of new training, everybody takes it, simply because they do not want to go south for their training. If we start this, I am sure the place will be full of people learning to take advantage of the jobs in the mining industry. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Proposal To Establish A Mining Institute
Item 2: Ministers' Statements

Page 1228

The Speaker

Thank you, Mr. Erasmus. Members' Statement, Mr. Kakfwi.

Concerns Regarding An Article Written By A Former NWT Politician
Item 2: Ministers' Statements

Page 1228

Stephen Kakfwi

Stephen Kakfwi Sahtu

Mr. Speaker, thank you. I say that there is no joy at watching a has-been politician who knows only one high pitched note, he gets on the stage weekly to screech out that note of cognitive dissonance. Mr. Speaker, I read the Yellowknifer yesterday and it is clear that Mr. Nickerson wants some attention. Mr. Nickerson wants to be heard and it is also clear to me that Mr. Nickerson's knickers are in a knot, (laughter).

As a young man I first heard the voice of an MLA, a very high-pitched voice on CBC Radio in the 70s, having heard it, I wondered at that time whether this man's knickers were in a knot. Mr. Speaker, I later learned that this was Mr. Nickerson. A little later I had the chance to sit in the Gallery of the Territorial Council and I saw Mr. Nickerson stand, slick his hair back, and spew his rhetoric in broad daylight for all the world to hear. I was sure then that his knickers were in a knot, (laughter).

More recently, in fact, yesterday, I read that pain with which Mr. Nickerson pens his newspaper articles. Truly, Mr. Nickerson's knickers are still in a knot, and what a tight knot it must be, (laughter). However, on a compassionate note I hope Mr. Nickerson finds the strength and the courage to loosen his restrictions and open his shutters.

Mr. Speaker, it is evident that aboriginal people have made great progress with BHP and their recent discussions, in fact, agreements, they tell me, have been concluded.

Had Mr. Nickerson been BHP's advisor, I wonder if they would have been so flexible, so understanding, and so open in their approach to dealing with aboriginal people. We do not know, but perhaps Mr. Nickerson will write about that next week. Thank you.

Concerns Regarding An Article Written By A Former NWT Politician
Item 2: Ministers' Statements

Page 1229

The Speaker

Thank you, Mr. Kakfwi. Members' Statements. Members' Statements. Returns to Oral Questions, Mr. Todd.

Return To Question 435-13(3): Claims Rejected By The Wcb In 1995
Item 4: Returns To Oral Questions
Item 4: Returns To Oral Questions

Page 1229

John Todd Keewatin Central

Yes, thank you, Mr. Speaker, I have a return to an oral question asked by Mr. Erasmus on October 8th, with respect to claims rejected by the WCB.

I apologize, this is a fairly lengthy reply, Mr. Speaker. The number of claims denied, or rejected by the WCB in 1995 was 124. With regard to the appeal process there are two levels of appeal. The first level is the Review Committee which carries out documentary reviews of claims and revenue decisions. The Review Committee usually holds it's review within 35 working days of receiving the request for review.

The Appeals Tribunal is the final level of appeal. It consists of a member of the board of directors as chairperson, it has two members represent the workers' and two members representative of employers. The Tribunal sits in hearing panels of three, comprising of the chairperson, or acting chairperson, and one member from each representative worker/employer group. The Appeals Tribunal can only hear appeals of decisions reached by the Review Committee. It holds oral hearings or documentary hearings.

Delays can occur from either the Tribunal or the appellant; for example, the Tribunal may require additional information, or the appellant, may not be ready to proceed. On average the last 30 completed cases have taken 188 calendar days each, from the date the appeal was received, or reactivated, to the date the decision was reached. There are no time limitations in which the appellant must file a review of an appeal.

At the end of 1996 the Appeal Tribunal had 21 appeals to be heard. Whether or not an injured worker would receive some allowance from the Workers' Compensation Board while their appeal is in the process would depend on the issue being appealed if the claim had been denied then no benefits would be paid to the appellant while going through the appeal process.

If it was determined by either the Review Committee or the Appeal Tribunal that the claim should have been accepted then it is possible that benefits would be issued retroactively. In the event that an injured worker was receiving a pension, but was appealing the percentage of their pension award, or another issue on the claim then they would continue to receive the monthly pension while going through the appeal process. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Return To Question 435-13(3): Claims Rejected By The Wcb In 1995
Item 4: Returns To Oral Questions
Item 4: Returns To Oral Questions

Page 1229

The Speaker

Thank you, Mr. Todd. Returns to Oral Questions. Mr. Morin.

Return To Oral Question 484-13(3): Broughton Island Airstrip
Item 4: Returns To Oral Questions

Page 1229

Don Morin Tu Nedhe

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I have a Return to Oral Question for Mr. Antoine, Minister of Transportation, on the Broughton Island Airstrip. On Monday, October 15, 1996 the Member from Baffin Central asked him about the condition of the Broughton Island Airport and the Department of Transportation's expenditures on its repair and maintenance.

The Member was correct in pointing out some of the physical deficiencies in the runway and lighting system at the Broughton Island Airport. I am pleased to report that this year, 1996, was the first of a four year program of extensive reconstruction at the airport. The project has been staged over several years to extend maximum opportunities for local involvement and employment.

This is the first year of the project involving crushing a 20,000 cubic metre supply of gravel for the job and relocating the access road to meet Transport Canada's zoning regulations. The Department has entered into a $380,000, two year, full authority, contribution agreement with the Hamlet for road construction.

Next year, 1997/98, the Department plans to begin runway reconstruction. Again, the purpose is to bring the airport up to meet Transport Canada standards and involves adding pre-threshold landing areas and widening of the runway. The Department has not yet completed the final design work, but an estimate of the project expenditures over two years is approximately $1.5 million.

The Member mentioned in his question that the airport is very close to the ocean and exposed to wind and spray. Indeed, the reconstruction plans call for the placing of armour rock on the apron embankments as protection from the waves in stormy weather.

The existing runway lighting is twenty years old and due for replacement. Once the earthwork at the airport is finished, the Department has scheduled the installation of new runway lighting in 1999/2000 at an estimated cost of $580,000.

From start to finish, the reconstruction of the Broughton Island Airport will cost roughly $2 million and bring the airport fully in line with Transport Canada's airport safety standards.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Return To Oral Question 484-13(3): Broughton Island Airstrip
Item 4: Returns To Oral Questions

Page 1230

The Speaker

Thank you, Mr. Morin. Returns to Oral questions. Mr. Ng.

Return To Oral Question 390-13(3): Negotiations With The Tl'oondih Healing Society
Item 4: Returns To Oral Questions

Page 1230

Kelvin Ng Kitikmeot

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I have three returns to Oral questions asked by Mr. Krutko.

On October 4: with respect to the status of negotiations with the Tl'oondih Healing Society. The total cost of southern referrals to addictions treatment facilities in the 1995/96 fiscal year was $879,046. However, referrals to southern Canadian addictions treatment centres are not a regular practice, and only occur when appropriate northern programs are not available.

Non-medical southern referrals have been dramatically reduced. We are currently making changes to the medical referral system, including a policy change which will restrict southern travel to those cases that cannot be accommodated in northern facilities.

Return To Oral Question 430-13(3): Methods To Achieve Community Wellness
Item 4: Returns To Oral Questions

Page 1230

Kelvin Ng Kitikmeot

Return to Oral question asked by Mr. Krutko on October 8: with respect to methods to achieve community wellness. A commitment to community wellness means that communities will play a greater role in determining their own priorities for their healing and wellness programs.

In the area of addictions, the government is moving away from providing core funding to facilities and phasing in a per diem system. Once this is fully in place, communities will have the resources and will be able to determine where they purchase treatment for their residents.

Therefore, the government cannot ensure that any program, including the Tl'oondih Healing Camp, will receive funding over the long term. This will be determined by the communities they serve.

Return To Oral Question 499-13(3): GNWT Policy On Placement Of Aboriginal Children
Item 4: Returns To Oral Questions

Page 1230

Kelvin Ng Kitikmeot

Mr. Speaker, a final return to oral question asked by Mr. Erasmus on October 16, 1996, in respect to policy - placement of aboriginal children with aboriginal foster parent families. I can advise that, as of September 30 of this year, there were 76 aboriginal children in foster care in Yellowknife. Fifteen of those children were placed in available aboriginal foster homes. As there were only five aboriginal homes available, the remaining 61 were placed in non-aboriginal homes, each of which is committed to supporting the values of the child's natural family.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Return To Oral Question 499-13(3): GNWT Policy On Placement Of Aboriginal Children
Item 4: Returns To Oral Questions

Page 1231

The Speaker

Thank you. Return to Oral questions. Ms Thompson.

Return To Oral Question 491-13(3): Reductions To Emergency Measures Funding
Item 4: Returns To Oral Questions

Page 1231

Manitok Thompson Aivilik

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I have two returns. One was asked by Mr. O'Brien on October 15, 1996, on reductions to Emergency Measures funding.

Mr. Speaker, like any public funds, JEPP is subject to annual review by the House of Commons. Although I cannot guarantee for the Member that further cuts will not occur to JEPP, I can assure him that no such cuts are planned at this time, and there is no move to eliminate the program.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Return To Oral Question 459-13(3): Municipal Financing Review And Community Empowerment
Item 4: Returns To Oral Questions

Page 1231

Manitok Thompson Aivilik

I have another return to oral question, asked by Mr. Henry on October 10, 1996 on community empowerment.

Mr. Speaker, planning for community empowerment and transfer of authority for programs and services is proceeding, as I have outlined in this House.

These transfers will be achieved through Block Funding Agreements between our government and each individual community. These agreements will outline the results expected and the necessary reporting, monitoring and accountability requirements for the transfer programs and services.

Block Funding Agreements will also have a provision to permit changes to reflect any new or improved arrangements that become available as a result of the Municipal Financing Review.

Mr. Speaker, the Municipal Financing Review will deal with a number of broad and complex issues, such as taxation and revenue generation. These issues will require extensive consultation with communities, the NWT Association of Municipalities, the NWT Association of Municipal Administrators, and MLA's, and will take time. Therefore, we have set an outside date of April 1, 1998, for implementation of any new financial arrangements. It is possible we could complete consultations and make changes sooner, but this may be unlikely given the complexity of some of these issues.

The experience we gain with community empowerment transfers over the next year will, Mr. Speaker, assist the review of municipal financing. We will have first-hand knowledge of the kinds of accountability, monitoring, and flexibility communities and the GNWT both need.

Our review to streamline and improve municipal financing will proceed in parallel with Community Empowerment transfers. Community Empowerment Block Funding Agreements will be rolled into improved financing arrangements that are developed after full consultation with communities and MLA's.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Return To Oral Question 459-13(3): Municipal Financing Review And Community Empowerment
Item 4: Returns To Oral Questions

Page 1231

The Speaker

Thank you, Ms Thompson. Return to Oral questions, Mr. Dent.

Return To Oral Question 506-13(3): Equipment Lost In School Fire
Item 4: Returns To Oral Questions

Page 1231

Charles Dent

Charles Dent Yellowknife Frame Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I have a return

to an oral question asked by Mr. Krutko yesterday regarding equipment lost in the school fire.

Mr. Speaker, the recreation equipment that was lost in the fire at Chief Julius School in Fort McPherson will be covered by insurance, as long as the equipment was owned by the Beaufort/Delta Divisional Educational Council, and was included in the list of lost items provided to the Department of Finance. The Beaufort/Delta Council did identify many pieces of recreational equipment as part of the list of lost items, and will be able to inform the Minister about specific items on this list.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Return To Oral Question 506-13(3): Equipment Lost In School Fire
Item 4: Returns To Oral Questions

Page 1232

The Speaker

Thank you. Return to Oral questions. Item 5: Recognition of Visitors in the Gallery. Mr. Ng.

Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery
Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Page 1232

Kelvin Ng Kitikmeot

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I would like to recognize two individuals in the Gallery. The first constituent, Mr. Larry Aknavagak, former Mayor of Cambridge Bay and the current Chairman of the Nunavut Impact Review Board. With him, is Mr. Bill Tillman, legal counsel for that same Board, Mr. Speaker. Thank you.

Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery
Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Page 1232

The Speaker

Welcome to the Assembly. Recognition of Visitors in the Gallery. Mr. Henry.

Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery
Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Page 1232

Seamus Henry Yellowknife South

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I wish to recognize today Basil Boudreau who is a new Catholic priest in St. Patrick's parish here in Yellowknife. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery
Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Page 1232

The Speaker

Welcome to the Assembly. Recognition of Visitors in the Gallery. Mr. O'Brien.

Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery
Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Page 1232

Kevin O'Brien Kivallivik

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I would also like to recognize Father Boudreau, as he comes from the island that I was born on, Cape Breton Island. Father, welcome to Yellowknife.

Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery
Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Page 1232

The Speaker

Recognition of Visitors in the Gallery. Mr. Picco.

Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery
Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Page 1232

Edward Picco Iqaluit

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I would like to take this opportunity to welcome to the Gallery, a well-known journalist and investigative reporter for the Globe and Mail newspaper, Brian Lahgi.

Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery
Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Page 1232

The Speaker

Welcome to the Assembly. Recognition of Visitors in the Gallery. Are there further recognitions? Item 6: Oral questions. Mr. Steen.

Question 514-13(3): Ratification Of The Western Constitutional Package
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1232

Vince Steen

Vince Steen Nunakput

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, my question is in relation to my statement. I would like to ask the Honourable Premier, Mr. Morin, if the Premier could assure the House that ratification of the new Constitution will be carried out in a democratic manner, such as a public plebiscite process, whereby each and every person who wishes to vote would indeed be allowed to do so. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Question 514-13(3): Ratification Of The Western Constitutional Package
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1232

The Speaker

Mr. Premier.

Return To Question 514-13(3): Ratification Of The Western Constitutional Package
Question 514-13(3): Ratification Of The Western Constitutional Package
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1232

Don Morin Tu Nedhe

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. The process that was used for developing the paper that was tabled yesterday in this House was by the Constitutional Working Group that, I believe, reported to the CDSC. I sit on that as a western MLA, I do not sit there to represent this House, so I would not want to pre-empt any decisions that group as a whole would make, along with Mr. Steen and the western Members, so I cannot really answer that question, Mr. Speaker. Thank you.

Return To Question 514-13(3): Ratification Of The Western Constitutional Package
Question 514-13(3): Ratification Of The Western Constitutional Package
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1232

The Speaker

Thank you. Oral question. Supplementary, Mr. Steen.

Supplementary To Question 514-13(3): Ratification Of The Western Constitutional Package
Question 514-13(3): Ratification Of The Western Constitutional Package
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1233

Vince Steen

Vince Steen Nunakput

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I do not believe I am asking for an opinion of the Premier in regards to the position of western Caucus. I am asking the Premier the position of this government. Whether, in fact, this Government supports a democratic process of one-man one-vote for ratification purposes. Thank you.

Supplementary To Question 514-13(3): Ratification Of The Western Constitutional Package
Question 514-13(3): Ratification Of The Western Constitutional Package
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1233

The Speaker

Mr. Morin

Further Return To Question 514-13(3): Ratification Of The Western Constitutional Package
Question 514-13(3): Ratification Of The Western Constitutional Package
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1233

Don Morin Tu Nedhe

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. The Government has not had an opportunity as of yet to review the document that was tabled in the House. I do not think that I can respond to that question yet, thank you.

Further Return To Question 514-13(3): Ratification Of The Western Constitutional Package
Question 514-13(3): Ratification Of The Western Constitutional Package
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1233

The Speaker

Oral questions, Supplementary, Mr. Steen.

Supplementary To Question 514-13(3): Ratification Of The Western Constitutional Package
Question 514-13(3): Ratification Of The Western Constitutional Package
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1233

Vince Steen

Vince Steen Nunakput

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, if the Premier should ... (inaudible) ... this government has no democratic policies in regard to ratification process.

Supplementary To Question 514-13(3): Ratification Of The Western Constitutional Package
Question 514-13(3): Ratification Of The Western Constitutional Package
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1233

The Speaker

Mr. Morin.

Further Return To Question 514-13(3): Ratification Of The Western Constitutional Package
Question 514-13(3): Ratification Of The Western Constitutional Package
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1233

Don Morin Tu Nedhe

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. It is my understanding that there are some suggestions floating around throughout this process. Not one man one vote, but one person one vote, for sure. Because everyone has a vote, man or woman, so I am pretty sure, people are talking about one person, one vote. There are also people talking about whether or not the aboriginal groups, 5 out of 7, have to ratify that agreement, as well as, public plebiscite where it is 50% plus one and, all three, as well as, the majority of western members to support it, and then you need all three to move ahead. That is my understanding, some of the stuff that people are suggesting today. Thank you.

Further Return To Question 514-13(3): Ratification Of The Western Constitutional Package
Question 514-13(3): Ratification Of The Western Constitutional Package
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1233

The Speaker

Thank you. Oral questions, final supplementary, Mr. Steen.

Supplementary To Question 514-13(3): Ratification Of The Western Constitutional Package
Question 514-13(3): Ratification Of The Western Constitutional Package
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1233

Vince Steen

Vince Steen Nunakput

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I do not believe I have heard a response to my first question yet, and that was whether or not this government has a policy in place for ratification processes? If you do not mind, Mr. Speaker, I would like to point out that there is a ratification process in place, approved by this government, for instance for holding liquor plebiscites in communities. There is a ratification process in place for other public processes that require a vote, that is one man, one vote. We have a process in place as to how we got elected. I presume we were elected democratically, people voted, one man, one vote, or one person, one vote. I would just like assurance from the Premier that this government will continue to support this type of process. Thank you.

Supplementary To Question 514-13(3): Ratification Of The Western Constitutional Package
Question 514-13(3): Ratification Of The Western Constitutional Package
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1233

The Speaker

Mr. Morin.

Further Return To Question 514-13(3): Ratification Of The Western Constitutional Package
Question 514-13(3): Ratification Of The Western Constitutional Package
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1233

Don Morin Tu Nedhe

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Yes, there is a ratification for liquor plebiscites throughout the Northwest Territories, there is a process in place. It is my understanding it would be the Assembly's decision to the democratic process to bring in a legislation on the ratification of this issue that you are talking about, the constitution. Thank you.

Further Return To Question 514-13(3): Ratification Of The Western Constitutional Package
Question 514-13(3): Ratification Of The Western Constitutional Package
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1233

The Speaker

Thank you. Oral questions. Mr. Krutko.

Question 515-13(3): Purchase Of Property Leased From The GNWT In The Mackenzie Delta
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1233

David Krutko

David Krutko Mackenzie Delta

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. My question is to the Minister of

Municipal and Community Affairs, it is in regard to my opening statement where I talked about the problem that a lot of people were concerned about, especially the Mackenzie Delta, of purchasing the property that their homes are on and also if they do want to purchase a home, they cannot purchase the property outright, because there was a lease-holding policy in the past, because of land claims.

Because the claims have been settled, why is that policy still in place and what are you going to do to assure my communities that they can purchase the properties, that they do occupy outright, instead of just leasing from this government?

Question 515-13(3): Purchase Of Property Leased From The GNWT In The Mackenzie Delta
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1234

The Speaker

Thank you, the Minister responsible for Municipal and Community Affairs, Ms. Thompson. That was two questions, I believe.

Return To Question 515-13(3): Purchase Of Property Leased From The GNWT In The Mackenzie Delta
Question 515-13(3): Purchase Of Property Leased From The GNWT In The Mackenzie Delta
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1234

Manitok Thompson Aivilik

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I think the Member remembers that in May, I tabled a document, finding the right balance options for changing land development practices to be used in the consultation process for this initiative on land reform. This summer the Cabinet approved the book to go into the communities, it is in the communities, and the headquarters staff have provided workshops with our regional staff on Land Reform Initiatives and regional staff have distributed the options paper to the community governments.

We are waiting to hear from the communities, what they would like us to do and I know in Nunavut that after the land claims, the Nunavut communities chose to only lease lands which was a decision to be in effect for 20 years, so we are in a consultation process right now, and, we are also doing community land administration programs.

As a matter of fact, a student from Aklavik, Sandy Stewart, was selected to be the first student to receive the Practicum Excellence Award last night in Rankin. We are consulting with the communities, I know in Nunavut what the Nunavut Land Claims has done to lease the lands for 20 years, but I do not know what the details are on owning the lands in this area, but we are waiting to hear from the communities what they want us to do in regard to their properties, in their communities. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Return To Question 515-13(3): Purchase Of Property Leased From The GNWT In The Mackenzie Delta
Question 515-13(3): Purchase Of Property Leased From The GNWT In The Mackenzie Delta
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1234

The Speaker

Oral questions, supplementary. Mr. Krutko.

Supplementary To Question 515-13(3): Purchase Of Property Leased From The GNWT In The Mackenzie Delta
Question 515-13(3): Purchase Of Property Leased From The GNWT In The Mackenzie Delta
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1234

David Krutko

David Krutko Mackenzie Delta

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. In regards to the time it is taking, it is causing some problems in the association of the policy to this government of privatizing and selling off government units. In order to maintain a mortgage with any bank you have to outright own the property, own the property that it is under. But because of this policy being in place, we are having problems in regard to receiving title for a lot of these properties that are presently being purchased by employees of the government.

My question is, how soon does he see this being concluded, so that we can try to proceed and resolve this problem, before it creates any more friction within the communities, streamline the process of land development in my constituency?

Supplementary To Question 515-13(3): Purchase Of Property Leased From The GNWT In The Mackenzie Delta
Question 515-13(3): Purchase Of Property Leased From The GNWT In The Mackenzie Delta
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1234

The Speaker

Thank you. Ms. Thompson.

Further Return To Question 515-13(3): Purchase Of Property Leased From The GNWT In The Mackenzie Delta
Question 515-13(3): Purchase Of Property Leased From The GNWT In The Mackenzie Delta
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1234

Manitok Thompson Aivilik

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. As I understand, banks are willing to loan money for the lease of these lots and other information that I have here is that land, only policy for western land claims settlement areas, will be reviewed in the near future. I will get the staff to look into the problem in the area of the member, and we will deal with the problem. Thank you.

Further Return To Question 515-13(3): Purchase Of Property Leased From The GNWT In The Mackenzie Delta
Question 515-13(3): Purchase Of Property Leased From The GNWT In The Mackenzie Delta
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1235

The Speaker

Oral question, supplementary, final supplementary. Mr. Krutko.

Supplementary To Question 515-13(3): Purchase Of Property Leased From The GNWT In The Mackenzie Delta
Question 515-13(3): Purchase Of Property Leased From The GNWT In The Mackenzie Delta
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1235

David Krutko

David Krutko Mackenzie Delta

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Not only have I been speaking to my constituents, I have been speaking to lawyers on behalf of my constituency who are having a problem with your department, Department of Justice and MACA on this issue, so it has not been resolved one way or the other.

My final question is that in regard to that, people have been leasing property for a number of years, will those lease amounts be put into the purchase of those properties because this process is taking so long, so that the price of that property when it is outright sold with the consideration for the amount of money that the individual has put into the leasing of that property be taken into consideration?

Supplementary To Question 515-13(3): Purchase Of Property Leased From The GNWT In The Mackenzie Delta
Question 515-13(3): Purchase Of Property Leased From The GNWT In The Mackenzie Delta
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1235

The Speaker

Ms. Thompson.

Further Return To Question 515-13(3): Purchase Of Property Leased From The GNWT In The Mackenzie Delta
Question 515-13(3): Purchase Of Property Leased From The GNWT In The Mackenzie Delta
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1235

Manitok Thompson Aivilik

What I can offer the member, there will be a new administration program being offered in Inuvik and I believe, that will be in January, if Fort McPherson wishes to take on land responsibilities, I would urge the member to encourage his community to send someone to this program, so that they will be able to inform at the local level on land issues. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Further Return To Question 515-13(3): Purchase Of Property Leased From The GNWT In The Mackenzie Delta
Question 515-13(3): Purchase Of Property Leased From The GNWT In The Mackenzie Delta
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1235

The Speaker

Thank you, oral question. You have a point of order, Mr. Krutko, your point of order.

Further Return To Question 515-13(3): Purchase Of Property Leased From The GNWT In The Mackenzie Delta
Question 515-13(3): Purchase Of Property Leased From The GNWT In The Mackenzie Delta
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1235

David Krutko

David Krutko Mackenzie Delta

I do not believe she answered by question, it had nothing to do with what is going on in Inuvik, the question was when can the whole question of purchasing property be resolved in my riding, it has nothing to do with what is going on at the Regional office.

Further Return To Question 515-13(3): Purchase Of Property Leased From The GNWT In The Mackenzie Delta
Question 515-13(3): Purchase Of Property Leased From The GNWT In The Mackenzie Delta
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1235

The Speaker

Mr. Krutko, you don't have a point of order, and the other thing is that with regard to the rules of Ministers, when a Minister is answering questions, the Minister may answer it, he may take it on notice, or else decline to answer, by saying nothing. Just to remind the Members, this is the Minister's prerogative, the way he answers any questions.

Oral questions, Mr. Roland.

Question 516-13(3): Alternative Energy Initiatives
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1235

Floyd Roland

Floyd Roland Inuvik

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. As I said in my Members' statement, about trying to focus on other initiatives within this government besides budget reductions. As I crossed the limit into increasing pressures not only the government budgets but on personal financing as well, I would like to know if this government is doing anything to lower the cost of living within the Territories, for example, in the Power Corporation, do they have any initiatives for alternative energy programs? Thank you.

Question 516-13(3): Alternative Energy Initiatives
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1235

The Speaker

Thank you. Who is that directed to? The Minister responsible for the NWT Power Corporation. Mr. Dent.

Question 516-13(3): Alternative Energy Initiatives
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1235

Charles Dent

Charles Dent Yellowknife Frame Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Yes, Mr. Speaker, the Power Corporation is looking at alternatives to diesel generation in a couple of ways.

The Corporation has for two years participated with Dutch industries in a program in Cambridge Bay, which sees an 80 KW wind generator in use there. That generator has performed well for the last two years. On the strength of that, there are three other projects which are close to implementation in the next little while, one will be in Kugluktuk, where the Power Corporation has purchased two wind generators. These should be installed and up and running within the next couple of weeks, another is in Sachs Harbour, where a 50 KW wind generator is expected to be in operation about one year from right now. In Iqaluit, we have a joint venture with Atlantic or in Canada, where we expect to see a wind generator in operation in November of this year.

On top of that, Mr. Speaker, the Power Corporation is pursuing hydro ventures wherever they are possible. In particular there is further examination of possible ventures in cooperation with the Dogrib First Nation, to provide perhaps some hydro energy for mining initiatives in the Slave Province and further hydro energy for the North Slave region.

Mr. Speaker, if I could switch hats for a minute, as Minister for Education, Culture and Employment, responsible for the Science Institute. The Science Institute as well, is examining alternate energy programs and has up and running in Inuvik right now, a hybrid operation, which includes photovoltaic wind turbine and diesel generation, and this is a pilot project which will be examined over the next two or three years to determine whether or not that sort of operation is feasible for further development in the north. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Question 516-13(3): Alternative Energy Initiatives
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1236

The Speaker

Thank you. Oral questions, Supplementary, Mr. Roland.

Supplementary To Question 516-13(3): Alternative Energy Initiatives
Question 516-13(3): Alternative Energy Initiatives
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1236

Floyd Roland

Floyd Roland Inuvik

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Has the Minister responsible for the Power Corporation, do they have programs that are available to communities that they could try? You mentioned joint venture earlier in one of the other communities, is this available to all communities across the north? Thank you.

Supplementary To Question 516-13(3): Alternative Energy Initiatives
Question 516-13(3): Alternative Energy Initiatives
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1236

The Speaker

Mr. Dent.

Further Return To Question 516-13(3): Alternative Energy Initiatives
Question 516-13(3): Alternative Energy Initiatives
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1236

Charles Dent

Charles Dent Yellowknife Frame Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, in Sachs Harbour the Sachs Harbour Community Corporation would be one of the joint venture partners and the Power Corporation is definitely interested in hearing from other community corporations across the Northwest Territories, who would be interested in joint venture initiatives. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Further Return To Question 516-13(3): Alternative Energy Initiatives
Question 516-13(3): Alternative Energy Initiatives
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1236

The Speaker

Thank you, Oral questions, Mr. Henry.

Question 517-13(3): Process For Community Name Changes
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1236

Seamus Henry Yellowknife South

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. My question is to the Minister responsible for Municipal and Community Affairs. The Minister congratulated two communities today on a name change, and I would also do the same. My question to the Minister is could she describe the process used by a community to determine how to change a name. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Question 517-13(3): Process For Community Name Changes
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1236

The Speaker

The Minister responsible for Municipal and Community Affairs, Ms. Thompson.

Return To Question 516-13(3): Process For Community Name Changes
Question 517-13(3): Process For Community Name Changes
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1236

Manitok Thompson Aivilik

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I don't have the details on the process, but it is started by the community. As I understand it, the change for Kugluktuk happened in January. I was just announcing it today, because the hamlet building had not been changed. The process takes quite a long time, it is initiated by the community. Thank you.

Return To Question 516-13(3): Process For Community Name Changes
Question 517-13(3): Process For Community Name Changes
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1236

The Speaker

Oral questions. Supplementary. Mr. Henry.

Supplementary To Question 517-13(3): Process For Community Name Changes
Question 517-13(3): Process For Community Name Changes
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1236

Seamus Henry Yellowknife South

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. The Minister mentioned that she did not have the details available. Could I get those details at a later date? Thank you.

Supplementary To Question 517-13(3): Process For Community Name Changes
Question 517-13(3): Process For Community Name Changes
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1236

The Speaker

Ms. Thompson.

Return To Question 517-13(3): Process For Community Name Changes
Question 517-13(3): Process For Community Name Changes
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1236

Manitok Thompson Aivilik

Thank you Mr. Speaker. We will give all the details and all the steps to the Member. Thank you.

Return To Question 517-13(3): Process For Community Name Changes
Question 517-13(3): Process For Community Name Changes
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1237

The Speaker

Thank you. Oral questions. Mr. Erasmus.

Question 518-13(3): Improving The Quality Of Northwestel Service
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1237

Roy Erasmus Yellowknife North

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. My question is for the Premier. You all heard in this House, I think it was last week, Mrs. Groenewegen made a statement, in relation to Northwestel and their atrocious service, in regards to people being put on hold for a long, long period of time. I have had several complaints as well, from people having to wait for about ten, fifteen, sometimes even twenty minutes. My question is, is there anything this government can do to influence Northwestel to improve their service?

Question 518-13(3): Improving The Quality Of Northwestel Service
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1237

The Speaker

Mr. Premier.

Return To Question 518-13(3): Improving The Quality Of Northwestel Service
Question 518-13(3): Improving The Quality Of Northwestel Service
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1237

Don Morin Tu Nedhe

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. As a major customer of Northwestel, I will have the Minister responsible get in touch with Northwestel to let them know about our dissatisfaction with the service to our Northwest Territories residents. Thank you.

Return To Question 518-13(3): Improving The Quality Of Northwestel Service
Question 518-13(3): Improving The Quality Of Northwestel Service
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1237

The Speaker

Thank you. Oral questions. Supplementary. Mr. Erasmus.

Supplementary To Question 518-13(3): Improving The Quality Of Northwestel Service
Question 518-13(3): Improving The Quality Of Northwestel Service
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1237

Roy Erasmus Yellowknife North

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Would the Premier consider opening up the monopoly that they currently have, so that perhaps we can have a bit of competition, and perhaps this could improve their services?

Supplementary To Question 518-13(3): Improving The Quality Of Northwestel Service
Question 518-13(3): Improving The Quality Of Northwestel Service
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1237

The Speaker

Mr. Morin.

Return To Supplementary Question 518-13(3): Improving The Quality Of Northwestel Service
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1237

Don Morin Tu Nedhe

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. That would require some thought and we have not taken a look at that yet. We will consider it. Thank you.

Return To Supplementary Question 518-13(3): Improving The Quality Of Northwestel Service
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1237

The Speaker

Thank you. Oral questions. Mr. Picco.

Question 519-13(3): Mining Training Programs For Nunavut
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1237

Edward Picco Iqaluit

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, Minister Dent announced some excellent programs to benefit and enhance the training of northerners. However, other than a course in Kugluktuk, the vast majority of announcements were focusing on the western diamond play, and mining training for the western area. What programs or training will be offered for the Nunavut settlement area?

Question 519-13(3): Mining Training Programs For Nunavut
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1237

The Speaker

The Minister of Education, Culture and Employment, Mr. Dent.

Return To Question 519-13(3): Mining Training Programs For Nunavut
Question 519-13(3): Mining Training Programs For Nunavut
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1237

Charles Dent

Charles Dent Yellowknife Frame Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, the programs that are being developed are entirely portable. The programs are generally delivered in different communities, and as the need arises, these programs can be offered in any community in the Northwest Territories. What we have done so far, Mr. Speaker, is to target our jobs training to those areas where we see the best opportunities to get the jobs in the future.

At this point in time, in the Nunavut region, much of our emphasis has been on training plans to ensure that we have an adequate workforce to staff the government of Nunavut, on April 1st, 1999. As the members will be aware, earlier this session, I made a statement talking about training plans, and specifically training plans in the Nunavut region. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Return To Question 519-13(3): Mining Training Programs For Nunavut
Question 519-13(3): Mining Training Programs For Nunavut
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1237

The Speaker

Thank you. Oral questions. Supplementary. Mr. Picco.

Supplementary To Question 519-13(3): Mining Training Programs For Nunavut
Question 519-13(3): Mining Training Programs For Nunavut
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1238

Edward Picco Iqaluit

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, Mr. Dent, in his mining training initiatives announcement today, spoke about a committee on the mining sector. Can the Minister update this House on the make-up and composition of this group? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Supplementary To Question 519-13(3): Mining Training Programs For Nunavut
Question 519-13(3): Mining Training Programs For Nunavut
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1238

The Speaker

Mr. Dent.

Further Return To Question 519-13(3): Mining Training Programs For Nunavut
Question 519-13(3): Mining Training Programs For Nunavut
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1238

Charles Dent

Charles Dent Yellowknife Frame Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, the mining committee right now is a smaller group of people than I had started with last June. In another statement this session, Mr. Speaker, I outlined the process whereby this group was put together. Last June, I called representatives of all the mining companies active in the Northwest Territories, and a number of companies which support mining companies, together and asked them for advice on how we should proceed with training the people of the Northwest Territories. They recommended that I put together a smaller group to meet on a more regular basis, to provide me with input.

That smaller group is made up of Mr. Doug Willy, Mr. Mike Vaydik, Mr. Michael Ballantyne, Mr. Wilf Wilcox, Mr. Ted Blondin, Mr. Darryl Beaulieu, Mr. Gary Bohnet, and we have also representatives of the college to attend and provide support at the meetings. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Further Return To Question 519-13(3): Mining Training Programs For Nunavut
Question 519-13(3): Mining Training Programs For Nunavut
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1238

The Speaker

Oral questions. Supplementary. Mr. Picco.

Supplementary To Question 519-13(3): Mining Training Programs For Nunavut
Question 519-13(3): Mining Training Programs For Nunavut
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1238

Edward Picco Iqaluit

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, the Minister mentioned in his announcement on the mining training initiatives, that the committee was proceeding on a number of areas, over the past several months. What initiatives is this committee proceeding on? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Supplementary To Question 519-13(3): Mining Training Programs For Nunavut
Question 519-13(3): Mining Training Programs For Nunavut
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1238

The Speaker

Mr. Dent.

Further Return To Question 519-13(3): Mining Training Programs For Nunavut
Question 519-13(3): Mining Training Programs For Nunavut
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1238

Charles Dent

Charles Dent Yellowknife Frame Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I am glad the Member asked me another supplementary, because it gives me an opportunity to also mention Mr. David Boyd, who I had left off the list in my first answer.

Mr. Speaker, one of the initiatives that the committee has recommended we take a look at, as a matter of fact, has recommended we move on, and we are moving on, is the development of a mining coordinator position. This position would be supported by my department. But the position would be supported by industry, by Resources, Wildlife and Economic Development, and by my department, basically on a one-third, one-third, one-third share.

This position would be to work, in particular, with graduates of our training programs to deal on a one-to-one basis with mining companies and mining supply companies, to ensure that graduates are able to find placements, and to provide us with direct information from the mining groups as to what training is needed to ensure that people are ready to take on jobs. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Further Return To Question 519-13(3): Mining Training Programs For Nunavut
Question 519-13(3): Mining Training Programs For Nunavut
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1238

The Speaker

Oral questions. Final supplementary. Mr. Picco.

Final Supplementary To Question 519-13(3): Mining Training Programs For Nunavut
Question 519-13(3): Mining Training Programs For Nunavut
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1238

Edward Picco Iqaluit

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, am I led to believe, then, that the committee is working pro-actively to help northerners find work in northern mines? I thought that was a duplication of services, because I think that is being done already by the mines, they do have their own human resource base.

Maybe the Minister could inform me, what the terms of reference of this committee is, and provide that to the House, with a breakdown of the cost of said committee? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Final Supplementary To Question 519-13(3): Mining Training Programs For Nunavut
Question 519-13(3): Mining Training Programs For Nunavut
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1238

The Speaker

Mr. Dent.

Return To Question 519-13(3): Mining Training Programs For Nunavut
Question 519-13(3): Mining Training Programs For Nunavut
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1239

Charles Dent

Charles Dent Yellowknife Frame Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I would be happy to provide all the Members of this House with the terms of reference for that committee. The committee basically has been asked to provide me with short term, medium term and long term strategies for ensuring that we have more northerners employed by mines.

One of the major reasons for setting up this committee was that, as Members will remember, last spring, after we had run the pre-employment mine training program, which had been designed in co-operation with BHP, and the college, we were finding that graduates of that program were not able to find jobs with other mining companies in the Northwest Territories. As a result of that, I thought it was necessary to bring representatives from a broader cross-section of mines than just BHP to the table, to find out what we needed to do to ensure that the graduates of our training programs could get jobs with them.

One of the things that the committee told me was that there needed to be a better way of marketing graduates to the companies, and that is one of the reasons we are moving on this.

In addition to that initiative, as I said, they have committed to providing me with short term, medium term and long term strategy advice on how our training programs should be set up. Mr. Speaker, I would be happy to provide all Members with a copy of the terms of reference. The cost of that committee so far, is minimal. I think I have bought them lunch three times. The Member will be happy to know it has been nothing more than sandwiches and the odd pickle. To date, there have been no costs paid for transportation. Members participate by teleconference when necessary. So there will be some long-distance charges in there. But by and large, this is a very efficiently run committee. As I said, industry has committed to providing one-third of the cost to the mining coordinator's position. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

---Applause.

Return To Question 519-13(3): Mining Training Programs For Nunavut
Question 519-13(3): Mining Training Programs For Nunavut
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1239

The Speaker

Thank you. Oral questions. Mr. O'Brien.

Question 520-13(3): Property Management Contract In The Keewatin
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1239

Kevin O'Brien Kivallivik

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, the general focus of discussions in this House recently has been primarily on our fragile financial state. We are all concerned about the reductions to staff, services, and programs such as fuel subsidy to seniors. And therefore, we want to ensure that our limited dollars are well-spent.

My question is to the Minister responsible for the NWT Housing Corporation. Mr. Speaker, recently, the property management function for staff housing for the Keewatin, has been farmed out to a private company. Can the Minister tell me whether this contract was publicly tendered? Thank you.

Question 520-13(3): Property Management Contract In The Keewatin
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1239

The Speaker

The Minister responsible for the NWT Housing Corporation, Mr. Arlooktoo.

Return To Question 520-13(3): Property Management Contract In The Keewatin
Question 520-13(3): Property Management Contract In The Keewatin
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1239

Goo Arlooktoo Baffin South

Mr. Speaker, first I should say that the NWT Housing Corporation acts as a contractor on behalf of the Financial Management Board Secretariat to manage and administer staff housing under FMBS policy. The information I have on hand on the particular contract, does indicate that it was awarded as a result of a public request for proposals.

Return To Question 520-13(3): Property Management Contract In The Keewatin
Question 520-13(3): Property Management Contract In The Keewatin
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1239

The Speaker

Thank you. Oral questions. Supplementary. Mr. O'Brien.

Supplementary To Question 520-13(3): Property Management Contract In The Keewatin
Question 520-13(3): Property Management Contract In The Keewatin
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1239

Kevin O'Brien Kivallivik

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. If I heard the Minister correctly, he indicated that it was not public

tender?

Further Return To Question 520-13(3): Property Management Contract In The Keewatin
Question 520-13(3): Property Management Contract In The Keewatin
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1240

Goo Arlooktoo Baffin South

Mr. Speaker, I said that the information I have indicates that the contract was awarded as a result of a public request for proposals.

Further Return To Question 520-13(3): Property Management Contract In The Keewatin
Question 520-13(3): Property Management Contract In The Keewatin
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1240

The Speaker

Thank you. Oral questions, Mr. O'Brien. Supplementary.

Supplementary To Question 520-13(3): Property Management Contract In The Keewatin
Question 520-13(3): Property Management Contract In The Keewatin
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1240

Kevin O'Brien Kivallivik

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I stand to be corrected on this, but it is my understanding that the contract that was let out is costing approximately $200,000 more than when the government itself was delivering the service. In view of our limited financial funding, our budget situation, how can this be rationalized? Thank you.

Supplementary To Question 520-13(3): Property Management Contract In The Keewatin
Question 520-13(3): Property Management Contract In The Keewatin
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1240

The Speaker

Mr. Arlooktoo.

Further Return To Question 520-13(3): Property Management Contract In The Keewatin
Question 520-13(3): Property Management Contract In The Keewatin
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1240

Goo Arlooktoo Baffin South

Mr. Speaker, as I indicated, I do have a limited amount of information on hand here in the House on the contracts that are issued by the government. This particular one was, I believe, not managed by the Housing Corporation but by FMBS.

The information I have here indicates that of the requests for proposals, two proposals were received. The firm that ended up winning the contract has a head office located in Rankin Inlet and it's president located in Baker Lake. An evaluation of the two proposals was carried out by the Financial Management Board Secretariat with technical advise from the Housing Corporation. And also that the costs of the contract is very similar to the costs incurred by the Housing Corporation previously.

Further Return To Question 520-13(3): Property Management Contract In The Keewatin
Question 520-13(3): Property Management Contract In The Keewatin
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1240

The Speaker

Oral questions. Oral questions final supplementary, Mr. O'Brien.

Final Supplementary To Question 520-13(3): Property Management Contract In The Keewatin
Question 520-13(3): Property Management Contract In The Keewatin
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1240

Kevin O'Brien Kivallivik

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Would the Minister be prepared to bring back in detail the actual costs of this contract?

Final Supplementary To Question 520-13(3): Property Management Contract In The Keewatin
Question 520-13(3): Property Management Contract In The Keewatin
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1240

The Speaker

Mr. Arlooktoo.

Further Return To Question 520-13(3): Property Management Contract In The Keewatin
Question 520-13(3): Property Management Contract In The Keewatin
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1240

Goo Arlooktoo Baffin South

Mr. Speaker, I would be more than pleased to provide as much information as I could to the member on this particular contract, and for that matter, to any MLA on any contract. Thank you.

Further Return To Question 520-13(3): Property Management Contract In The Keewatin
Question 520-13(3): Property Management Contract In The Keewatin
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1240

The Speaker

Oral question, Mr. Ootes.

Question 521-13(3): Breast Cancer Information In NWT Communities
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1240

Jake Ootes

Jake Ootes Yellowknife Centre

Thank you Mr. Speaker. My question is for the Minister of Health. Last week I spoke about the need for attention to be paid to breast cancer in the Northwest Territories, and during that time I would like to make a correction while I can, Mr. Speaker, about a statistic. I reported that 82 northern women were diagnosed with breast cancer between 1990 and 93. That figure should have read 1980, so instead of a three year period, it was a thirteen year period.

Mr. Speaker, my concern with this subject is that we do not have any literature appropriate in the communities to allow people to become familiar with the problems of breast cancer, and last week I did discuss .. I made a statement on this and I asked a question to the Minister. I wonder if the Minister has had an opportunity to speak with his officials and the committee that has been struck about the need for appropriate literature to be designed for northern communities?

Question 521-13(3): Breast Cancer Information In NWT Communities
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1241

The Speaker

The Minister Responsible for Health and Social Services, Mr. Ng.

Return To Question 521-13(3): Breast Cancer Information In Nwt Communities
Question 521-13(3): Breast Cancer Information In NWT Communities
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1241

Kelvin Ng Kitikmeot

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, no, I have not had an opportunity to speak to anybody involved in it, recognizing that the honourable Member is concerned, I made it a note at that time to certainly consider that issue of literature, appropriate literature and look forward to those types of recommendations coming from this working group, Mr. Speaker. Thank you.

Return To Question 521-13(3): Breast Cancer Information In Nwt Communities
Question 521-13(3): Breast Cancer Information In NWT Communities
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1241

The Speaker

Thank you. Oral question supplementary, Mr. Ootes.

Supplementary To Question 521-13(3): Breast Cancer Information In Nwt Communities
Question 521-13(3): Breast Cancer Information In NWT Communities
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1241

Jake Ootes

Jake Ootes Yellowknife Centre

A further concern, Mr. Speaker, is that the health people in the communities will have to be trained as well in terms .. and given courses on diagnosis. I wonder if the Minister could also discuss with the working group the need to address the training aspects.

Supplementary To Question 521-13(3): Breast Cancer Information In Nwt Communities
Question 521-13(3): Breast Cancer Information In NWT Communities
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1241

The Speaker

Thank you. Mr. Ng.

Further Return To Question 521-13(3): Breast Cancer Information In Nwt Communities
Question 521-13(3): Breast Cancer Information In NWT Communities
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1241

Kelvin Ng Kitikmeot

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, the mandate of the working group is fairly broad in that they would make recommendations on any aspect in respect to try to make recommendations on how to enhance breast cancer screening initiatives, so I would take it that it would be all encompassing and make recommendations on what training would be required, what literature would be required, and what easier avenues could be implemented to enhance breast cancer screening, Mr. Speaker. Thank you.

Further Return To Question 521-13(3): Breast Cancer Information In Nwt Communities
Question 521-13(3): Breast Cancer Information In NWT Communities
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1241

The Speaker

Thank you. Oral question supplementary, Mr. Ootes.

Supplementary To Question 521-13(3): Breast Cancer Information In Nwt Communities
Question 521-13(3): Breast Cancer Information In NWT Communities
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1241

Jake Ootes

Jake Ootes Yellowknife Centre

Yes, I wonder if the Minister could tell us if .. what kind of time frame may be involved for the working group to bring in a report on this?

Supplementary To Question 521-13(3): Breast Cancer Information In Nwt Communities
Question 521-13(3): Breast Cancer Information In NWT Communities
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1241

The Speaker

Mr. Ng.

Further Return To Question 521-13(3): Breast Cancer Information In Nwt Communities
Question 521-13(3): Breast Cancer Information In NWT Communities
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1241

Kelvin Ng Kitikmeot

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I think..I believe I indicated that the terms of reference were approved in late August, August 25th, and I was hoping that certainly within the next couple months that some form of preliminary report, if not a final one, would be made available, Mr. Speaker. Thank you.

Further Return To Question 521-13(3): Breast Cancer Information In Nwt Communities
Question 521-13(3): Breast Cancer Information In NWT Communities
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1241

The Speaker

Thank you. Oral question, Mr. Ningark.

Question 522-13(3): Funding For Youth Involvement And Programs
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1241

Ningark

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, as I indicated that I attended Kitikmeot Inuit Association Conference Annual General Meeting in Gjoa Haven. I had the opportunity to listen to the young people making a strong but positive presentation before the Kitikmeot Inuit Association Annual General Meeting. There is a willingness, enthusiasm among the young people to help the other young people within the region. I am sure this is also the same in the other regions.

Mr. Speaker, we have all kind of funding subsidies for groups, communities, regional, and so on, but how much money do we have in our budget to help the young people to attend meetings, to go to functions and be counted as members of the society? Since they are our future, we have to prepare for the future. My question is directed to the Honourable Minister of Finance, Mr. Speaker. How much money do we have in the budget to help the young people?

Question 522-13(3): Funding For Youth Involvement And Programs
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1241

The Speaker

The Minister of Finance,

Mr. Todd.

Return To Question 522-13(3): Funding For Youth Involvement And Programs
Question 522-13(3): Funding For Youth Involvement And Programs
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1242

John Todd Keewatin Central

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I believe the jurisdiction in terms of the government for youth there lies with Mr. Dent. So I do not have those questions at my finger tips and well, Mr. Dent can look in his briefing book, I will say that I would suggest to my honourable colleague that he may wish to address that question to Mr. Dent, who I am sure, once he finds the appropriate notes in his briefing book will be able to answer. Thank you.

Return To Question 522-13(3): Funding For Youth Involvement And Programs
Question 522-13(3): Funding For Youth Involvement And Programs
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1242

The Speaker

Mr. Ningark, would you like to redirect the question?

Re-direct Question 522-13(3): Funding For Youth Involvement And Programs
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1242

Ningark

Yes, thank you, Mr. Speaker. Since my question was in relation to our finances, then I would think that Minister of Finance would have the answer, that is his jurisdiction. My question is to the Minister of Education, Culture and Employment. Mr. Speaker, do we have money in the budget to help the young people to attend meetings and functions and so on? Thank you.

Re-direct Question 522-13(3): Funding For Youth Involvement And Programs
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1242

The Speaker

The Minister Responsible for Education, Culture and Employment, Mr. Dent.

Return To Question 522-13(3): Funding For Youth Involvement And Programs
Re-direct Question 522-13(3): Funding For Youth Involvement And Programs
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1242

Charles Dent

Charles Dent Yellowknife Frame Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, we do have some money in the budget for youth initiatives which could apply in some part to the type of meetings that the member refers to. It is extremely limited and it has in the past been used in ad hoc ways without there being much of a strategy as to how it would be used. Because of that, my department this year undertook an effort to study or to have a study done which would provide us with some guidance on how this funding would best be used, and I am expecting to be able to present the information from that study to the Standing Committee on Social Programs with some recommendations for how those funds should be spent in the future before or with the final budget before Christmas this year. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Return To Question 522-13(3): Funding For Youth Involvement And Programs
Re-direct Question 522-13(3): Funding For Youth Involvement And Programs
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1242

The Speaker

Thank you. Oral question supplementary, Mr. Ningark.

Supplementary To Question 522-13(3): Funding For Youth Involvement And Programs
Re-direct Question 522-13(3): Funding For Youth Involvement And Programs
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1242

Ningark

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Supplementary to the Honourable Minister of Education, Culture and Employment. Mr. Speaker, will the honourable Minister provide this House the information on the available programs and services to help the young people? Thank you.

Supplementary To Question 522-13(3): Funding For Youth Involvement And Programs
Re-direct Question 522-13(3): Funding For Youth Involvement And Programs
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1242

The Speaker

Mr. Dent.

Further Return To Question 522-13(3): Funding For Youth Involvement And Programs
Re-direct Question 522-13(3): Funding For Youth Involvement And Programs
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1242

Charles Dent

Charles Dent Yellowknife Frame Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I believe, Mr. Speaker, that the total funding for youth is $150,000 within the department. I think it is also worth mentioning though that in the past the Department of Education had funds for youth travel, but it was decided a couple of years ago that those funds would be better handled at the regional level, and therefore, all of those funds have been distributed to the divisional educational councils, and those - what we used to call the school boards. Those councils now have all of the funding for youth travel, as I said, the $150,000 that remained in the budget for youth initiatives has typically in the past been targeted for a variety of projects. Not all which would be the sort that the member is referring to, but I would be happy to provide the member with some information on what funds do remain within the department. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Further Return To Question 522-13(3): Funding For Youth Involvement And Programs
Re-direct Question 522-13(3): Funding For Youth Involvement And Programs
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1242

The Speaker

Thank you. Oral question, Mr. Krutko.

Question 523-13(3): Trespassing Provisions Of The Gwich'in Agreement
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1242

David Krutko

David Krutko Mackenzie Delta

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

My question is to the Minister of Justice. The Gwich'in Land Claim Settlement Act was given oral ascent December 22, 1992 and is protected under section 35 of the Canadian Constitution. Pursuant to section 20.1.2 of the Gwich'in Agreement: "Persons who are not participants in the Gwich'in claim may only enter, cross, stay, on Gwich'in land with the permission of the Gwich'in Tribal Council. Persons who disobey that section shall be considered to be trespassers."

According to the Gwich'in Tribal Council, who have discussed this matter with federal officials, Department of Justice, Department of Renewable Resources, right now there is absolutely no way that a Royal Canadian Mounted Police Resource Officer can enforce that division of the Gwich'in agreement, especially under law or statute or acts within the Northwest Territories. There are concerns my constituency and leaders that there may be problems in the future with trespassers, also in regards to .. because there is not legal remedy to resolve this, that there may be court challenges and problems in the legal system later.

I would like to ask the Minister, is it possible to develop and introduce a petty trespassing act similar to the ones in Southern Canada through legislation in the Northwest Territories and when, how soon can the Minister start looking at developing something like that?

Question 523-13(3): Trespassing Provisions Of The Gwich'in Agreement
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1243

The Speaker

The Minister of Justice, Mr. Ng.

Return To Question 523-13(3): Trespassing Provisions Of The Gwich'in Agreement
Question 523-13(3): Trespassing Provisions Of The Gwich'in Agreement
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1243

Kelvin Ng Kitikmeot

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I am not aware of the problem the honourable Member has brought up for the first time to me. I certainly will talk to my officials in the Department of Justice and see what measures can be taken to try to assist in resolving this problem with the potential of trespassing on Gwich'in land. I would like to say that I believe it is protected under the federal jurisdiction as it stands now because it is a federal land claim agreement, and I think that possible there might be some remedy there through looking at what laws are in place federally, and we will try to work with them in trying to look at alternative solutions and measures that can address their issue, Mr. Speaker. Thank you.

Return To Question 523-13(3): Trespassing Provisions Of The Gwich'in Agreement
Question 523-13(3): Trespassing Provisions Of The Gwich'in Agreement
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1243

The Speaker

Thank you. Oral question supplementary, Mr. Krutko.

Supplementary To Question 523-13(3): Trespassing Provisions Of The Gwich'in Agreement
Question 523-13(3): Trespassing Provisions Of The Gwich'in Agreement
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1243

David Krutko

David Krutko Mackenzie Delta

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Just on that, I would like to note that the Minister stated that he is going to look into it, but I would also like the Minister to work along with the aboriginal claimant groups, not only Gwich'in but the other claimant groups who will definitely have the same problem in developing such legislation.

Supplementary To Question 523-13(3): Trespassing Provisions Of The Gwich'in Agreement
Question 523-13(3): Trespassing Provisions Of The Gwich'in Agreement
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1243

The Speaker

Mr. Ng.

Further Return To Question 523-13(3): Trespassing Provisions Of The Gwich'in Agreement
Question 523-13(3): Trespassing Provisions Of The Gwich'in Agreement
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1243

Kelvin Ng Kitikmeot

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, if the problem is with more than one claimant group, obviously we would take that into consideration because we try to look after as many groups and constituents as we could, Mr. Speaker. Thank you.

Further Return To Question 523-13(3): Trespassing Provisions Of The Gwich'in Agreement
Question 523-13(3): Trespassing Provisions Of The Gwich'in Agreement
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1243

The Speaker

Thank you. Oral questions, supplementary, Mr. Krutko.

Supplementary To Question 523-13(3): Trespassing Provisions Of The Gwich'in Agreement
Question 523-13(3): Trespassing Provisions Of The Gwich'in Agreement
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1243

David Krutko

David Krutko Mackenzie Delta

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Could the Minister keep me informed in regards to the results of his discussion with his officials and also the aboriginal groups.

Supplementary To Question 523-13(3): Trespassing Provisions Of The Gwich'in Agreement
Question 523-13(3): Trespassing Provisions Of The Gwich'in Agreement
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1243

The Speaker

Mr. Ng.

Further Return To Question 523-13(3): Trespassing Provisions Of The Gwich'in Agreement
Question 523-13(3): Trespassing Provisions Of The Gwich'in Agreement
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1244

Kelvin Ng Kitikmeot

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, yes.

Further Return To Question 523-13(3): Trespassing Provisions Of The Gwich'in Agreement
Question 523-13(3): Trespassing Provisions Of The Gwich'in Agreement
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1244

The Speaker

Oral questions, oral question, Mr. Picco.

Question 524-13(3): Consultation On Foster Care Rates
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1244

Edward Picco Iqaluit

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, in conjunction with National Foster Family week, on October 4th I had asked the Minister of Health and Social Services the concern that we have with the impact of the foster care rate reductions. The Minister responded to me. Following up on that is some questions that I would like to present to the Minister now. Has the Minister looked at consultation with foster families other that the, in other areas of the NWT, other than with just a single Yellowknife Foster Family Association? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Question 524-13(3): Consultation On Foster Care Rates
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1244

The Speaker

The Minister of Health and Social Services, Mr. Ng.

Return To Question 524-13(3): Consultation On Foster Care Rates
Question 524-13(3): Consultation On Foster Care Rates
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1244

Kelvin Ng Kitikmeot

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, no.

Return To Question 524-13(3): Consultation On Foster Care Rates
Question 524-13(3): Consultation On Foster Care Rates
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1244

The Speaker

Oral question supplementary, Mr. Picco.

Supplementary To Question 524-13(3): Consultation On Foster Care Rates
Question 524-13(3): Consultation On Foster Care Rates
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1244

Edward Picco Iqaluit

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, there are foster families, as the Minister is aware, in my riding, who brought this issue forward to me. I am wondering if the Minister will be looking at consulting with other groups, other than just a single Yellowknife group. For example, there are foster parents in Rankin, Cambridge Bay, and other places in the Northwest Territories that are impacted by the impact of the foster care rate reductions. Given the fact that the Minister made a good statement on National Foster Family Week this week, I am wondering is he looking at consulting with other foster families and parents in the Northwest Territories.

Supplementary To Question 524-13(3): Consultation On Foster Care Rates
Question 524-13(3): Consultation On Foster Care Rates
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1244

The Speaker

Mr. Ng.

Further Return To Question 524-13(3): Consultation On Foster Care Rates
Question 524-13(3): Consultation On Foster Care Rates
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1244

Kelvin Ng Kitikmeot

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, not at this time. We know that there are some issues out there, outside of Yellowknife. We recognize there are foster parents throughout the Northwest Territories that do provide a valuable service to us. I am hoping, certainly, that the results of the discussion with the Yellowknife Foster Parent Association, with our officials of the Department, will hopefully provide productive changes that will hopefully address the issues affecting all foster parent families throughout the Northwest Territories, Mr. Speaker. Thank you.

Further Return To Question 524-13(3): Consultation On Foster Care Rates
Question 524-13(3): Consultation On Foster Care Rates
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1244

The Speaker

Thank you. Oral question. Supplementary, Mr. Picco.

Supplementary To Question 524-13(3): Consultation On Foster Care Rates
Question 524-13(3): Consultation On Foster Care Rates
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1244

Edward Picco Iqaluit

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. In the return to the Oral question that I asked on October 4, the Minister said that the Department would be working together and doing the consultation for the foster care rate reductions. What, in the short term, does the Minister and the Department hope to find in consulting with these groups about the rate reductions to the foster care rates? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Supplementary To Question 524-13(3): Consultation On Foster Care Rates
Question 524-13(3): Consultation On Foster Care Rates
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1244

The Speaker

Mr. Ng.

Further Return To Question 524-13(3): Consultation On Foster Care Rates
Question 524-13(3): Consultation On Foster Care Rates
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1244

Kelvin Ng Kitikmeot

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, the discussions that are taking place right now pertain to specifically the special needs rates that were impacted by us trying to obtain a 50 percent reduction in those special needs. What is being looked at is possibly spreading out the foster care payments reductions throughout the foster parents payments schedules, so it would not significantly impact us just that one area of special foster parent care payments, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you.

Further Return To Question 524-13(3): Consultation On Foster Care Rates
Question 524-13(3): Consultation On Foster Care Rates
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1245

The Speaker

Thank you. Oral question. Final supplementary, Mr. Picco.

Final Supplementary To Question 524-13(3): Consultation On Foster Care Rates
Question 524-13(3): Consultation On Foster Care Rates
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1245

Edward Picco Iqaluit

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, in the Return to the Oral question by Mr. Ng, he indicated, some have indicated, and that is some families, have indicated they may not be prepared to carry on, but will continue to do so in the short term. Mr. Speaker, what contingency plan is the Department looking at in the case that these families, and that is just the Yellowknife ones I guess we are talking about here, and in the other parts of the Territories are not able to proceed with taking care of children with special needs because of the rate reduction to special foster care rates. What is the contingency plan that the Department has in place? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Final Supplementary To Question 524-13(3): Consultation On Foster Care Rates
Question 524-13(3): Consultation On Foster Care Rates
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1245

The Speaker

Mr. Ng.

Further Return To Question 524-13(3): Consultation On Foster Care Rates
Question 524-13(3): Consultation On Foster Care Rates
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1245

Kelvin Ng Kitikmeot

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, as is stands now, I am totally optimistic that we will be able to reach a solution which will be acceptable to the Foster Parents Association. The indications that I have from my staff, at this preliminary stage, is that they are making good progress in trying to resolve the situation, and as it stands now, there is no contingency plan in place because I am optimistic that we will be able to reach an agreement on this, Mr. Speaker. Thank you.

Further Return To Question 524-13(3): Consultation On Foster Care Rates
Question 524-13(3): Consultation On Foster Care Rates
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1245

The Speaker

Thank you. Oral question. Mr. O'Brien.

Question 525-13(3): Guidelines For Municipalities To Use Local Businesses
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1245

Kevin O'Brien Kivallivik

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, my question is to the Minister responsible for MACA. It is in reference to block funding. Mr. Speaker, what guidelines or policies are in place to ensure that Hamlet Councils will utilize local businesses?

Question 525-13(3): Guidelines For Municipalities To Use Local Businesses
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1245

The Speaker

The Minister responsible for Municipal and Community Affairs, Ms Thompson.

Return To Question 525-13(3): Guidelines For Municipalities To Use Local Businesses
Question 525-13(3): Guidelines For Municipalities To Use Local Businesses
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1245

Manitok Thompson Aivilik

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. With the block funding, the Department of Municipal and Community Affairs, through its commitment to Community Empowerment initiatives, supports block funding as a way for communities to identify local issues and plan and allocate resources to solve them, and take the responsibility for the design and delivery of local programs and services. Can the Member clarify if the business is the local business or is to an organization in the community? Thank you.

Return To Question 525-13(3): Guidelines For Municipalities To Use Local Businesses
Question 525-13(3): Guidelines For Municipalities To Use Local Businesses
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1245

The Speaker

Mr. O'Brien. First clarification, clarification.

Clarification To Question 525-13(3): Guidelines For Municipalities To Use Local Businesses
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1245

Kevin O'Brien Kivallivik

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I am referring to local business people in the community.

Clarification To Question 525-13(3): Guidelines For Municipalities To Use Local Businesses
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1245

The Speaker

Ms Thompson

Return To Question 525-13(3): Guidelines For Municipalities To Use Local Businesses
Clarification To Question 525-13(3): Guidelines For Municipalities To Use Local Businesses
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1245

Manitok Thompson Aivilik

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. To be block funded, you have to be an organization that is (just a minute, I am just reading my information here). What we have said is that we can block fund to a single administration to a point which much be corporate. It should be able to pass legislation to be block funded. It should be able to sue and be sued. It should own property. It should be able to borrow. This body can take many forms. It can be a band council. It can be a band organization, Metis

locals, Metis organizations, municipal governments, societies and associations. We are open to discuss ways to officially recognize new organization types, so we are just in the process of recognizing other bodies. We have not made any definite decisions yet on recognizing businesses in the communities, but this one of the processes for Community Empowerment. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Return To Question 525-13(3): Guidelines For Municipalities To Use Local Businesses
Clarification To Question 525-13(3): Guidelines For Municipalities To Use Local Businesses
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1246

The Speaker

Thank you, Ms Thompson. Oral questions. Supplementary, Mr. O'Brien.

Supplementary To Question 525-13(3): Guidelines For Municipalities To Use Local Businesses
Clarification To Question 525-13(3): Guidelines For Municipalities To Use Local Businesses
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1246

Kevin O'Brien Kivallivik

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I am not sure that answered my question. My question was in reference to how will local business be protected, I guess, to ensure that they will get some work in the communities? Once block funding takes place, the block funding, for example, has already taken place. And also, how does Article 23 and 24 define the agreement apply to this? Thank you.

Supplementary To Question 525-13(3): Guidelines For Municipalities To Use Local Businesses
Clarification To Question 525-13(3): Guidelines For Municipalities To Use Local Businesses
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1246

The Speaker

Ms Thompson.

Further Return To Question 525-13(3): Guidelines For Municipalities To Use Local Businesses
Clarification To Question 525-13(3): Guidelines For Municipalities To Use Local Businesses
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1246

Manitok Thompson Aivilik

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. That would be through local tenders and there is a business incentive policy that will be in effect. The local organizations that I just listed can be block funded. Does the Member have an idea of what community has that problem and which organization wants to be block funded or which business is worried about not being block funded or has trouble with the community being block funded, because the normal process would still apply where the businesses would not lose through the business incentive policy. We have a policy for those. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Further Return To Question 525-13(3): Guidelines For Municipalities To Use Local Businesses
Clarification To Question 525-13(3): Guidelines For Municipalities To Use Local Businesses
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1246

The Speaker

Oral questions. Supplementary, Mr. O'Brien.

Supplementary To Question 525-13(3): Guidelines For Municipalities To Use Local Businesses
Clarification To Question 525-13(3): Guidelines For Municipalities To Use Local Businesses
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1246

Kevin O'Brien Kivallivik

Mr. Speaker, I thought we were supposed to be asking the questions here. I still do not have an answer. My question is what guidelines are in place, if any, to protect the local business person once the community is block funded, and the ones that are already block funded? Thank you.

Supplementary To Question 525-13(3): Guidelines For Municipalities To Use Local Businesses
Clarification To Question 525-13(3): Guidelines For Municipalities To Use Local Businesses
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1246

The Speaker

Ms Thompson.

Further Return To Question 525-13(3): Guidelines For Municipalities To Use Local Businesses
Clarification To Question 525-13(3): Guidelines For Municipalities To Use Local Businesses
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1246

Manitok Thompson Aivilik

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I will refer the question to the Finance Minister. He is dealing with the finances to the communities. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Further Return To Question 525-13(3): Guidelines For Municipalities To Use Local Businesses
Clarification To Question 525-13(3): Guidelines For Municipalities To Use Local Businesses
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1246

The Speaker

Thank you. The Minister cannot refer a question to another Minister. It has to be a new question, Mr. O'Brien. Oral question, Mr. Henry.

Question 526-13(3): Deadline For Establishment Of The Mortgage Investment Corporation
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1246

Seamus Henry Yellowknife South

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. My question is to the Minister of Financial Management Board. Mr. Speaker, I recognize that it is often difficult for home owners in small communities to receive mortgage financing from banks. So when the Minister of Finance announced, as part of his Budget Address, that a Mortgage Investment Corporation would be established to enable Northerners to purchase government staff housing, I understood the reasoning. I was then pleased to hear recently that the banks and CMHC may very well provide mortgage financing in small communities. This suggests that we may no longer need the Mortgage Investment Corporation. We had authorized the setting aside of $5 million to start up this Mortgage Investment Corporation. Now that we may not need it for that purpose, I am sure there are many suggestions as to what we can do with the money.

My first question to the Minister is, when does he anticipate knowing whether or not he will need the Mortgage Investment Corporation?

Question 526-13(3): Deadline For Establishment Of The Mortgage Investment Corporation
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1247

The Speaker

The Minister of Finance, Mr. Todd.

Return To Question 526-13(3): Deadline For Establishment Of The Mortgage Investment Corporation
Question 526-13(3): Deadline For Establishment Of The Mortgage Investment Corporation
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1247

John Todd Keewatin Central

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Good question by my Honourable colleague. I am optimistic that we will be in a position to make a decision whether to go or not to go with the Mortgage Investment Corporation within sixty to ninety days. Thank you.

Return To Question 526-13(3): Deadline For Establishment Of The Mortgage Investment Corporation
Question 526-13(3): Deadline For Establishment Of The Mortgage Investment Corporation
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1247

The Speaker

Oral question. Supplementary, Mr. Henry.

Supplementary To Question 526-13(3): Deadline For Establishment Of The Mortgage Investment Corporation
Question 526-13(3): Deadline For Establishment Of The Mortgage Investment Corporation
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1247

Seamus Henry Yellowknife South

Thank you, Mr. Todd. My supplementary question is, has the Minister found ways to redeploy that money?

Supplementary To Question 526-13(3): Deadline For Establishment Of The Mortgage Investment Corporation
Question 526-13(3): Deadline For Establishment Of The Mortgage Investment Corporation
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1247

The Speaker

Mr. Todd.

Further Return To Question 526-13(3): Deadline For Establishment Of The Mortgage Investment Corporation
Question 526-13(3): Deadline For Establishment Of The Mortgage Investment Corporation
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1247

John Todd Keewatin Central

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Let me assure my Honourable colleague. If we decide not to proceed with the Mortgage Investment Corporation, that money will go back to face the difficult deficit that we have. Thank you.

Further Return To Question 526-13(3): Deadline For Establishment Of The Mortgage Investment Corporation
Question 526-13(3): Deadline For Establishment Of The Mortgage Investment Corporation
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1247

The Speaker

Oral questions. Mr. Ootes.

Further Return To Question 526-13(3): Deadline For Establishment Of The Mortgage Investment Corporation
Question 526-13(3): Deadline For Establishment Of The Mortgage Investment Corporation
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1247

Jake Ootes

Jake Ootes Yellowknife Centre

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. My time is up (laughter).

Further Return To Question 526-13(3): Deadline For Establishment Of The Mortgage Investment Corporation
Question 526-13(3): Deadline For Establishment Of The Mortgage Investment Corporation
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1247

The Speaker

I do apologize. I do get carried away, too, when I listen to the Members. Oral questions is over.

Item 7: Written Questions
Item 7: Written Questions

Page 1247

The Speaker

Mr. Krutko.

Question 10-13(3): Purchase Of Land By Homeowners
Item 7: Written Questions

Page 1247

David Krutko

David Krutko Mackenzie Delta

Thank you, Mr. Speaker, I have a written question for the Minister of Municipal and Community Affairs. This is in regards to the purchase of and ownership of land. When can I receive the date as to the progress of purchased land by home owners in my constituency? Is the process to purchase land going to be fair, and not an issue of how your Department can receive a full cost recovery of expenditures for delivering the service of your Department? Will the Minister of Municipal and Community Affairs assure me that her Department will be fair in giving reimbursements towards the purchase of land that home owners have already paid into through the high price of leasing?

Question 10-13(3): Purchase Of Land By Homeowners
Item 7: Written Questions

Page 1247

The Speaker

Thank you, Mr. Krutko. Written questions.

Item 8: Returns To Written Questions
Item 8: Returns To Written Questions

Page 1247

The Speaker

Mr. Clerk.

Return To Written Question 8-13(3): Core Funding For Community Based Healing Programs
Item 8: Returns To Written Questions

Page 1247

Clerk Of The House Mr. David Hamilton

Mr. Speaker, Return to written question 8-13(3) asked by Mr. Krutko to the Minister of Health and Social Services, concerning core funding for community based healing programs.

The position of the Department of Health and Social Services on community based healing programs is that people in the communities are in the best position to determine the priorities for their healing and wellness programs. This Government intends to move away from providing core funding to community based programs and move towards a system where each community receives its wellness funding in a block funding arrangement. This will allow communities to determine which programs they wish to support.

The Department is aware that the Tl'oondih Healing Camp will be closed for the next few months.

In 1996/97, the Department of Health and Social Services has committed to provide the program with $300,000 in funding. The Department has also committed to pay the Healing Camp a per diem for referrals made under the Extended Health Benefits program.

Over the past 10 years, the Department has made the following funding available to healing facilities that deal with addictions:

Northern Addictions Services in Yellowknife:$ 12,272,557

Delta House in Inuvik $ 4,695,124

Nats' ejee K'eh on Hay River Reserve (over 4 years)$ 4,080,529

Inuusiqsuirvik in Iqaluit (over past 4 years)$ 3,324,922

Return To Written Question 8-13(3): Core Funding For Community Based Healing Programs
Item 8: Returns To Written Questions

Page 1248

The Speaker

Thank you. Return to Written questions. Replies to Opening Address. Mr. Kakfwi.

Item 9: Replies To Opening Address
Item 9: Replies To Opening Address

Page 1248

Stephen Kakfwi

Stephen Kakfwi Sahtu

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. In 1977 after a week long hunting in the Mackenzie Valley from Fort Providence to Fort Good Hope, my six year old daughter then went on to visit her cousins in southwestern Ontario for a summer reunion. For the first time she met the many cousins she had in that part of the country....

Item 9: Replies To Opening Address
Item 9: Replies To Opening Address

Page 1248

The Speaker

Could I have order please. Mr. Kakfwi, all Members are entitled to one Member's reply and on May 16, 1996 you did make replies to the Opening Address. That was a long time ago, but still in the same Session so we cannot allow you have a second reply. So I must rule you out of order Mr. Kakfwi.

Replies to Opening Address. Replies to Opening Address.

Item 10: Petitions
Item 10: Petitions

Page 1248

The Speaker

Petitions. Petitions.

Item 11: Reports Of Standing And Special Committees
Item 11: Reports Of Standing And Special Committees

Page 1248

The Speaker

Reports of Standing and Special Committees. We do not have any reports?

Item 12: Reports Of Committees On The Review Of Bills
Item 12: Reports Of Committees On The Review Of Bills

Page 1248

The Speaker

Reports of Committees on the Review of Bills.

Item 13: Tabling Of Documents
Item 13: Tabling Of Documents

Page 1248

The Speaker

Tabling of documents. Tabling of documents. Mr. Morin.

Tabled Document 113-13(3): NWT Liquor Commission - 42nd Annual Report
Item 13: Tabling Of Documents

Page 1248

Don Morin Tu Nedhe

Thank you Mr. Speaker. On behalf of Mr. Antoine I wish to table the following document, Annual Report for the Northwest Territories Liquor Commission for the year ending March 31, 1996. Thank you Mr. Speaker.

Tabled Document 113-13(3): NWT Liquor Commission - 42nd Annual Report
Item 13: Tabling Of Documents

Page 1248

The Speaker

Thank you. Tabling of documents. Tabling of documents. Mr. Todd.

Tabled Document 114-13(3): List Of Funds Transferred Exceeding $250,000 For The Period February 13, 1996 To May 16, 1996
Item 13: Tabling Of Documents

Page 1248

John Todd Keewatin Central

Thank you Mr. Speaker. I wish to table the following document, as required by Section 321(2) of the Financial Administration Act. I am tabling a list of all inter-activity transfers exceeding $250,000 within departments from the period February 15, 1996 to May 16, 1996. Thank you Mr. Speaker.

Tabled Document 114-13(3): List Of Funds Transferred Exceeding $250,000 For The Period February 13, 1996 To May 16, 1996
Item 13: Tabling Of Documents

Page 1248

The Speaker

Thank you. Tabling of documents. Mr. Erasmus.

Tabled Document 115-13(3): Dene National Assembly Motion Regarding The Negotiation Of Treaty 8 Benefit Agreements With Bhp
Item 13: Tabling Of Documents

Page 1248

Roy Erasmus Yellowknife North

Thank you Mr. Speaker. I wish to table a letter received from the Dene Nation concerning a Motion that was carried during their National Assembly Meeting this summer. The Motion is entitled "Negotiation of Treaty 8 Benefit Agreements with BHP" and the Motion reads in part "that the Territorial Legislative Assembly and Executive and Federal Government demonstrate their already stated support for negotiation of Benefit Agreements by developing policies

that insist on including a resource revenue sharing agreements". Thank you Mr. Speaker.

Tabled Document 115-13(3): Dene National Assembly Motion Regarding The Negotiation Of Treaty 8 Benefit Agreements With Bhp
Item 13: Tabling Of Documents

Page 1249

The Speaker

Thank you Mr. Erasmus. Tabling of documents. Tabling of documents.

Item 14: Notices Of Motion
Item 14: Notices Of Motion

Page 1249

The Speaker

Notice of Motion. Mr. Ootes.

Notice Of Motion 23-13(3): Support For Community Empowerment
Item 14: Notices Of Motion

Page 1249

Jake Ootes

Jake Ootes Yellowknife Centre

Thank you Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I give Notice that on Monday, October 21, 1996 I will move the following Motion. Now therefore I move, seconded by the Honourable Member for Yellowknife North, that this Legislative Assembly expresses its support for peoples and communities to have control over their own affairs, and further the transfer of responsibility occur to a community only when that community has clearly demonstrated the desire to take over greater responsibilities and further that the Executive Council ensure that the time frames identified for a community to assume greater control are realistic and furthermore that the Department of Municipal and Community Affairs ensure that communities are provided with support and training necessary to enable them to take on additional governance responsibilities.

Notice Of Motion 23-13(3): Support For Community Empowerment
Item 14: Notices Of Motion

Page 1249

The Speaker

Thank you Mr. Ootes. Notices of Motion. Notices of Motion.

Item 15: Notices Of Motions For First Reading Of Bills
Item 15: Notices Of Motions For First Reading Of Bills

Page 1249

The Speaker

Notices of Motion for First Reading of Bills. Notices of Motion for First Reading of Bills.

Item 16: Motions
Item 16: Motions

Page 1249

The Speaker

Motions. Motions.

Item 17: First Reading Of Bills
Item 17: First Reading Of Bills

Page 1249

The Speaker

First Reading of Bills. First Reading of Bills.

Item 18: Second Reading Of Bills
Item 18: Second Reading Of Bills

Page 1249

The Speaker

Second reading of bills. Second reading of bills.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1249

The Speaker

Consideration in committee of the whole of bills and other matters. Tabled Document 1-13(3), Tabled Document 83-13(3), Tabled Document 90-13(3), Tabled Document 91-13(3), Committee Reports 07-13(3), 08-13(3), 09-13(3) and 010-13(3).

Would Mr. Ningark take the chair?

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1249

The Chair John Ningark

Thank you I would like to call the Committee to order. Under the Orders of the Day, Item 19, there are several items here and we have eight all together. What is the wish of the committee? Mr. Ootes.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1249

Jake Ootes

Jake Ootes Yellowknife Centre

Mr. Chairman, I would recommend that we consider Tabled Document 90 and 91 together as one document followed by the reports from the Standing Committees of Social Programs, Resource Management and Infrastructure.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1249

The Chair John Ningark

Thank you Mr. Ootes. On the paper we also have Government Operations Mid-Year Review Report. Do you want to include that?

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1249

Jake Ootes

Jake Ootes Yellowknife Centre

Mr. Chairman, I believe that we may wish to wait until tomorrow on that.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1249

The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. As indicated by Mr. Ootes, we have Tabled Document 90-13(3), Community Empowerment; Tabled Document 91-13(3), Community Empowerment: A New Partnership. Those two go together, as recommended by the Member.

Tabled Document 7-13(3), Report of the Standing Committee on Social Program and we have Tabled Document 8-13(3), Resource Management Mid-Year Report and Tabled Document 9-13(3), Infrastructure Mid-Year Review Report in that order. Do we have to the concurrence of the committee that we will follow that order? Agreed? There is a correction here. According to my information, this paper reads Tabled Document but in fact I am advised that these are the reports. Okay so can we proceed now? We will take a ten minute break. Thank you.

--- SHORT RECESS

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1250

The Chair John Ningark

I would like to call the committee back to order. It is nice to be back here. But I would rather be home at this time. Anyway, we are considering Tabled Document 90-13(3), Community Empowerment and Tabled Document 91-13(3), Community Empowerment in New Partnerships. Mr. Ootes has suggested that we would be dealing with those documents together and we have the concurrence of the committee. Are there any general comments on Tabled Documents 90 and 91? Mrs. Groenewegen.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1250

Jane Groenewegen

Jane Groenewegen Hay River

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I was the Chair the other day when the issue of community empowerment was discussed, and I had made a few notes, and I would just like to share a few thoughts on community empowerment.

I think it was a good exercise. I am glad it was moved into committee of the whole. I think it is good to talk about it, and to talk it over.

One of the issues of concern to me is one that has not been talked about a lot. But it has to do with liability of this government. When we turn programs, funding, responsibilities over to communities and if there is a failure to deliver that program to the level that is required to meet the needs of the residents, I am wondering about the ultimate responsibility of this government, and how that might be addressed.

Several people mentioned that communities can take on responsibilities at whatever pace, and as quickly as they feel they can manage them. But the valid point has been made that a lot of the personnel involved in departments which serve as support and back-up for those communities has been, or is going to be taken out of the picture. If we do have this kind of incremental approach to community empowerment, and different communities are at different levels of assuming responsibilities, in fact, a parallel system is required by this government. I am wondering how cost-effective that is, and if in fact we should not have something a little bit more organized, and set targets whereby a certain department would try turning over certain phase of responsibilities to different communities that were ready at the same time. So that we do not end up with a real patchwork.

There has been talk about saving money, by putting the dollars into programs as opposed to the administration of programs, and I think everybody agrees that there has been seemingly an uncontrolled growth in the area of bureaucracy in our government. We say that, but I just would like to point out that we sure like those government jobs in our communities, in those larger communities. So we talk about breaking down bureaucracy and we talk about community empowerment, but people have to realize that those jobs are not going to be there. I hope that is not a contradiction.

When we talk about the diminished role of the central government, and running communities at the community level. A lot of those people that work at that level, are volunteers. If we are going to diminish the role of the central government, I am wondering if we are looking at some form of compensation to those people. Are we going to share out pay cheques with them? Are we going to sit less, pay MLAs less, and pay people at the community level more money?

---Applause.

Even in a town the size of Hay River, we have a mayor that basically performs almost a full-time job for $16,000 a year.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1250

An Hon. Member

Bravo.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1250

Jane Groenewegen

Jane Groenewegen Hay River

When we talk about community empowerment, I think we should be thinking about sharing our pay cheques with those people. I do not think we can expect to run any

corporation, or any organization well on a strictly voluntary basis.

Just a last comment on something we have heard over and over again. We have heard it said, I would say I have probably heard it said about a hundred times, that, with respect to community empowerment, mistakes are going to be made. I am wondering why we do not talk more about the opportunities of community empowerment. Maybe we should talk about the positive side, and ask questions, and set goals, and say, is community empowerment going to result in things such as less income support, more economic development, addressing our social issues of drug and alcohol abuse. Are we going to be able to attain goals such as that through community empowerment? I think if we focused on those sorts of issues instead of the fact that mistakes are going to be made, I think that community empowerment might be more palatable. Maybe people would be even more willing at the community level to buy into it, if we could hold up those opportunities a little bit more, and not scare people.

Mr. Henry, I believe, mentioned the other day that the communities that have the most empowerment at this point in time, are the ones who have an economy, and the ones that are the least dependent. I think that while we are looking at cut-backs, and so on, we also have to consider that maybe one of the most empowering things that we can do for communities is in the area of training and job creation and creating an economic base, and I am not really sure how we will do that. There is talk of job strategies, and training programs. There are benefit impact agreements. I think it is part and parcel of community empowerment. People have to have an economic base. They have to have a job. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1251

The Chair John Ningark

Thank you, Mrs. Groenewegen. I believe there was no direct question, more or less general comments. Do we have further general comments? We are considering Tabled Document 90 and 91 together. Mr. Krutko.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1251

David Krutko

David Krutko Mackenzie Delta

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. My question is more in line in regards to how do you involve the different organizations, especially in relation to band councils, Metis locals and also the groups that are presently negotiating self-government agreements are trying to negotiate for similar arrangements as communities are, through community empowerment. Is there a mechanism that you are looking at using to involve those people, either prior to the transfers or even during the transfer, so that maybe they can take over those initiatives?

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1251

The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. The Minister for Municipal and Community Affairs, Madame Thompson.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1251

Manitok Thompson Aivilik

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. With community empowerment implementation, we have done quite a lot of work on this implementation plan. There are ten steps to that. I can say that we have also done a lot of presentations to, for instance, Sahtu Leadership Metis Local, in Fort Simpson, tri-council meetings in Fort Simpson, and NWTAM area management committees, and colleges, and continuing education staff, and Keewatin mayors, and Kitikmeot regional management team, and Keewatin regional management committee, Dogrib Treaty 11, Nunavut Implementation Committee, Baffin Regional Management Committee, Baffin Leadership Summit, Inuit Regional Hospital senior staff, Inuit MACA staff.

We have been in a lot of these meetings, and we have always offered ourselves when we know that there are large meetings coming on, to do a presentation on community empowerment. We are doing the best we can to make our presentations open to different groups across the Territory. If the community was interested in being introduced to community empowerment, we are open to doing a presentation to the band councils and other organizations in the community. Thank you.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1251

The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. General comments. Mr. Krutko.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1251

David Krutko

David Krutko Mackenzie Delta

The reason I asked the

question is because there are several initiatives happening in my riding, especially in regards to the self-government negotiations between the Inuvialuit and the Gwich'in, also the Aklavik community aboriginal council. There are initiatives out there, but they might not fall within the same circumstances. There are different circumstances for different areas. Because of that, I am wondering if there is a way that you can allow those groups to take on those programs as they proceed, either as a pilot project or what not, within those communities. So they can take them on now by piecemeal, instead of taking over everything, just take over sections of it, instead of just formulated through the municipal council or the hamlets. If there could be some mechanism there for aboriginal institutions that are being developed, looking at public government, to be able to allow to take over these initiatives now?

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1252

The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Mr. Krutko, are you referring to regional type of government?

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1252

David Krutko

David Krutko Mackenzie Delta

Well, they are basically doing the same thing we are looking at through community empowerment. The aboriginal council in Aklavik for instance, consists of the Inuvialuit, the Gwich'in, the Metis, and also through the hamlet council. So there are already these structures being developed in communities to take over these things, but they are doing it sort of at their own pace, they want to make sure that they take it over with the adequate resources that are there. And also sort of formulated into what they are doing through self-government negotiations. So these initiatives are already there, these institutions are already being developed because of land claim agreements, or because of self-government negotiations. So in light of what we are doing here, we have to also keep in mind that those procedures are both going to eventually clash, because they are going after the same thing. So you have to keep that in mind when you are doing this initiative.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1252

The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Madam Minister.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1252

Manitok Thompson Aivilik

Thank you Mr. Chair. The staff is available to do a presentation on community empowerment to any group that is interested, so what we need, is an invitation from those groups, and we can talk with them, on how we can work together to make this process better. That is an offer I can make and we have hired, the department has hired a person in Inuvik on Community Empowerment that can do the presentation and that person is available on request. Thank you Mr. Chairman.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1252

The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. General comments. Mr. Krutko.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1252

David Krutko

David Krutko Mackenzie Delta

Well I might as well just be blunt. Basically the problem I have with it is that right now it seems like the only institutions that are really recognized are the incorporated societies under City Council or basically Hamlet Councils but there is no real recognition of aboriginal institutions that are out there. On one hand you say they are there but you are not looking at it in the context of taking over municipal reports. So what I am saying basically is that the position of this government - are they going to work and allow aboriginal organizers to take over municipal responsibilities and also maybe even looking at infrastructure or is this strictly that they will control the programs but the infrastructure of the community has to remain within the municipal structures as described in the Municipal Act?

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1252

The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Madam Minister. Are you dealing only with a prime public body within the community? Madam Minister.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1252

Manitok Thompson Aivilik

As I said earlier when somebody was asking about block funding, that we are willing to talk with Band Councils, Band organizations, Metis Locals, Metis organizations, municipal governments, societies and associations and we are open to discuss ways to officially recognize new organization types and unincorporated communities will need to incorporate in some way in order to take over services. You have to be

able to service the public. It is a public government that you will be - it is a public - it is for the public in the community, whether aboriginal or non-aboriginal. As long as you are willing to service all the people in your community, we are willing to talk. But you have to be able to pass legislation, sue or be sued, as I said before and own property and borrow, etc. We are do single - there can be up to three single administrative points into one community and that could be. Social programs can be one block, social programs and services, which could be, if the Band is interested in that, we can talk. Infrastructure programs and services, for example, the municipal body might be interested in that instead of social programs.

Another point that can be block funded would be economic and resource programs and services. There can be separate block funding agreements for each of these bodies if this makes sense locally.

So the packages can be tailored to each community. For example, a community might want a housing and recreation package under social. So we are willing to talk with any community but they would have to service a public body. Thank you Mr. Chairman.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1253

The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. General comments. Mr. Krutko.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1253

David Krutko

David Krutko Mackenzie Delta

The Minister stated earlier in the week that she was working out arrangements with the Status of Women to deliver programs and services in communities. But basically they are a society, they are not recognized in my riding - basically we are fighting over the same dollars, especially if you talk about community wellness dollars, you talk about funding for healing centres or basically even programs within communities. The Bands on one hand are fighting over, the Hamlet is fighting over the same money yet now you are throwing a third party into this picture. Somehow you have to coordinate all these efforts that are going on. I think that the point I am making is that you know, are aboriginal institutions recognized as institutions similar to municipal institutions? If they are not, come right out and say it.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1253

The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Madam Minister.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1253

Manitok Thompson Aivilik

In regards to the Status of Women, I do not recall saying that. I said I would not block funding. And I do not recall saying that. We are asking the communities to come up with a model that best suits that community and it is - the community has some responsibility in this and it is a large part of community empowerment. That the community tells us what kind of governing body do you want in your community. The options are open and as I said, we are willing to talk to any community that is interested in community empowerment. The community has responsibilities to start this initiative. Thank you Mr. Chairman.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1253

The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. General comments. We have Mr. Erasmus.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1253

Roy Erasmus Yellowknife North

Thank you Mr. Chairman. I would actually like to ask a question of the Minister of Justice in this area please. Sometime ago the Yellowknife Dene First Nation had sent a letter to the Minister of Justice indicating that they wanted to begin negotiations to take over an area concerning the helping people going to Court - generally known as Court Workers and they wanted to transfer a Court Worker to the First Nation so that they could - the aboriginal people in Yellowknife would be better served. The indication to the First Nation from the Chairman of the Mackenzie Court Workers was that they would wait until their Annual General Assembly, which has not occurred yet and it would be discussed at that time.

In the meantime, part of their request was that the Mackenzie Court Workers not hire someone to fill an advertised position and that position be transferred. But since the indication that this proposal would be discussed at the Annual General Assembly, since then, Mackenzie Court Workers has gone ahead and hired a Court Worker to fill that position that the Band wanted transferred to themselves. I am not exactly sure what the situation is here and I was just wondering if the Minister could indicate if there is anything - has there been a change in the situation - is the Mackenzie Court Workers no longer willing to discuss transferring a position to the Yellowknives First Nation?

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1254

The Chair John Ningark

Thank you Mr. Erasmus. Mr. Minister. Mr. Ng.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1254

Kelvin Ng Kitikmeot

Thank you Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman I am aware of the situation in that the Honourable Member did mention it to me as it was developing. The request from the Yellowknife Band to assume some type of legal support for some of their Band Members and for others. I know - I would like to state that the Legal Services Board is funding by us but they are an independent board in respect to providing legal aid throughout the Northwest Territories, whether it is through clinics or through - of staff - with staff - lawyers or whether it is through payments of contract lawyers. I will - I am not exactly sure of the circumstances that the Member has brought up right now. I will commit to finding out from the Legal Services Board on the status of the request and why, if there was a commitment made to him to take a look at that and to the Yellowknife Band, Dene Band.

If there were commitments made why they were not responded to. So I will check into that matter. I understand that the Legal Services Board is having their - or sorry, the Mackenzie Court Workers Services - will be having their Annual Meeting, from my notes here, October 19th. So that is this weekend Mr. Chairman. So I will check into that for the Member and advise him on it. Thank you.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1254

The Chair John Ningark

Thank you Mr. Minister. General comments. Mr. Erasmus.

Thank you. On the list of Members wanting to speak we have Mr. O'Brien and Mr. Steen. Mr. O'Brien.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1254

Kevin O'Brien Kivallivik

Thank you Mr. Chairman. Can we ask questions now or are we still on discussion of comments? My question to the Minister is how does Article 23 and 24 of the Final Agreement apply to Hamlets in reference to their distribution of contracts, dealing with contracts in the local community?

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1254

The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. General comments is also a time when you can ask an appropriate Minister who is the Minister of the item that we are reviewing. Madam Minister.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1254

Manitok Thompson Aivilik

Thank you Mr. Chairman. The department is with Goo Arlooktoo.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1254

The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Mr. Arlooktoo. Sorry.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1254

Goo Arlooktoo Baffin South

Mr. Chairman I would be pleased to answer questions and anything related to Article 24 but I would ask the Member to repeat the question - I did not hear all of it.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1254

The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Mr. O'Brien could you please repeat the question for the Honourable Minister.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1254

Kevin O'Brien Kivallivik

I certainly will Mr. Chairman. The question was how does Article 23 and 24 of the Final Agreement apply to Hamlets in reference to their handling of contracts?

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1254

The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Mr. Minister.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1254

Goo Arlooktoo Baffin South

Mr. Chairman I cannot speak so much to Article 23, which has to do with training and GNWT applications to training. I would leave that for the Education Minister. But Article 24 spells out the obligations of the GNWT and supporting Inuit businesses and the increasing participation rates of Inuit individuals and businesses in government contracting.

As you know the GNWT shared its interim measures last spring. We have been involved in ongoing consultations with NTI on fine-tuning those measures and implementing those measures in preparation for a final policy.

How this Article will affect or be affecting by community empowerment is an issue that I guess requires more thought but it is clearly my position and as far as I am concerned, the government's position that communities should have policies in the Nunavut region that would follow - that would force them to live up to Article 24, which as I said many times in this House, is a constitutionally protected agreement.

The - if I may add - the debate up to now has been if we are going to empower communities, how far are we willing to go? The issue for some people is - if we want true empowerment that we give the money over to the communities without strings attached. But, as far as I am concerned, the government always had and still has policies that while we spend these monies delivering programs that we have to deliver legally and under our policies, at the same time we will use that money to make sure that employment is enhanced in the communities.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1255

The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Mr. O'Brien.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1255

Kevin O'Brien Kivallivik

Thank you Mr. Chairman. Just a few more questions. This question I believe would be to the Minister of MACA. How many communities presently are block funded?

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1255

The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Madam Minister.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1255

Manitok Thompson Aivilik

Thank you Mr. Chairman. The department - let me just see - just a minute. The City of Yellowknife has been block funded. The Towns of Hay River and Fort Smith have also been block funded. The Town of Inuvik recently negotiated a three-year block funding. Those are the communities that have been block funded; the bigger centres. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1255

The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Mr. O'Brien?

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1255

Kevin O'Brien Kivallivik

I can appreciate that the Minister may not have the answer to the next question, but she may, or somebody may. How many communities are, at this point in time, are close to being block funded? How many are pending that will see block funding, for example, in the next three to six months?

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1255

The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Madam Minister.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1255

Manitok Thompson Aivilik

Mr. Chair, I do not have that information, but I do know that there are Hamlets that are showing interest in being block funded. Thank you, Mr. Chair. But I can get the information from my Department. I know there are communities that are coming forward in regards to Territorial-wide community status. I do have the information on what has been transferred over to the communities across the Territories, but that would take a long time. I do not have that information. Sorry about that. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1255

The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. I believe the Honourable Minister is going to be providing the information to the Honourable Member. Mr. O'Brien?

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1255

Kevin O'Brien Kivallivik

Mr. Chairman. I guess my real concern here, and I will pose it as a question, it may be taken as a comment, is that we have block funding already in place, we have pending block funding coming up in the next short while for various communities, but still we do not seem to have any guidelines in place to give some sort of protection to the small contractors, the small local contractors in the communities. That is a bit scary, and I will say that I have had a number of calls from small business people who are concerned. For example, is the almighty dollar going to be the bottom line here when it comes to awarding contracts, and so on and so forth. Because some of these small contractors cannot compete against some of the major contractors, some of the southern contractors. I just express it as a concern, that we should get all our ducks lined up before we start putting some of these initiatives in place, or we are going to find

ourselves in very, very serious trouble. Thank you.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1256

The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. I believe we are getting into the area of a fair business practice. Madam Minister?

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1256

Manitok Thompson Aivilik

Thank you, Mr. Chair. When we do community empowerment initiatives and it starts to happen in the community, it is the community that starts initiating projects and so on. I believe the communities would be looking at the businesses that are closest to home, and they would be protected. Block funding agreements are under the same guidelines as government, and they would look after the local businesses first. Local hamlets would be more supportive of local contractors, as we know they are, and develop local preference policies, as many have already done. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1256

The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Mr. O'Brien.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1256

Kevin O'Brien Kivallivik

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. What mechanism, if any, do we have in place that if, this does not occur, where local contractors are not given the preference, what mechanism is in place to deal with that, to correct it?

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1256

The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Madam Minister.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1256

Manitok Thompson Aivilik

Mr. Chair, I am going to refer the question to the Finance Minister. It is regarding financing.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1256

The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Mr. Todd.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1256

John Todd Keewatin Central

Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and thank you Ms Thompson. Policies and procedures are going to be in place with respect to the way in which municipalities expend their funds, and in keeping with anything else that we do, if those policies and procedures are not adhered to, we would take an appropriate course of action. It could mean taking back that authority, I suppose, etc. It is still very early in the process, this evolutionary process. But the intent here is, as I know where the line of questioning is going, and I think it is a valid one. The intent here is, and the belief is, that if we transfer the money to the communities that the communities will take a closer look at ensuring that their local community investors and small businesses are, not protected, but are given equal opportunity. I think that is important, to say that.

We will be developing some guidelines that will ensure that happens and I want to ensure my colleague that his concern about the larger corporations coming in and grabbing the projects, I just do not think that it will happen. I think an example of how well it is done right now is in his own riding of Arviat, if you take a look at that project that we saw when we were in there that the last trip we made with that garage facility that has been done by your municipality and your local contractor and the twenty or thirty local guys, I would hope that would be an example and I am sure Ms. Thompson feels the same way, a very clear example of the success of community empowerment, we in fact, have built the facility which has been run by your municipality at a lower cost than what the government funded by a local contractor who is employing all kinds of local people.

That is a classic example and you are to be congratulated for that, of exactly what community empowerment is all about.

So, our intent is to take that approach, to ensure that some guidelines and procedures are in place, to ensure that kind of excellent performance that we say there can be adopted in other parts of the country. Thank you.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1256

The Chair John Ningark

Thank you, I believe the communities are still a public body unless they have the authority to make a by-law in dealing with the business incentive program. Mr. O'Brien.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1256

Kevin O'Brien Kivallivik

A final comment, Mr. Chairman. Thank you, Mr. Todd, for your kind words regarding my home community of Arviat, and you are right they have done a great job on

the projects that they have taken on so far. I was not referring to Arviat but more of a general sense, the projects that have taken place so far have been on a very limited basis and I think the more we get into empowerment and the more responsibility and finances that we turn over to the communities, it is going to lend itself to a situation where we would have to be very careful to make sure that what is happening now on a small scale will continue on a larger scale, otherwise we will have a lot of small companies that are going to bite the dust. Thank you.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1257

The Chair John Ningark

Thank you, general comment, Mr. Steen.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1257

Vince Steen

Vince Steen Nunakput

Mr. Chairman, earlier this week I refereed to the communities that have taken on the responsibility of community empowerment but are still in need of expert advice and assistance and I stated that I was concerned about the possibility that this type of assistance would no longer be there if we continue with the process of laying off staff in the regions.

I do not think I received a response from the government on this. would like to ask the Minister, for instance, if a community took on social services, would it be her department that would assure the community that the office space is there that the expertise to appoint expert staff is available. Is that the responsibility of her department? Or would that be the responsibility of the Social Services Minister?

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1257

The Chair John Ningark

Thank you, Madam Minister.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1257

Manitok Thompson Aivilik

Thank you, Mr. Chair. What has been happening at the regional level in the regional offices is that we ave set up a committee of different department representatives so that the departments are working together and MACA is acting as a coordinator for those meetings and facilitating the meetings.

We would be monitoring the communities, we would be talking with them and the department would be involved in the monitoring process. We have at the territorial level departments working together on this initiative so that everybody is communicating with each other and at the regional level we also have a team that is working on this. Thank you, Mr. Chair. Maybe I will ask the Social Services and Justice Minister, would you be monitoring these programs? Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1257

The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Mr Steen.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1257

Vince Steen

Vince Steen Nunakput

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I think that basically answers my question, however, I would like to ask the Minister, does the government at this point in time feel that they still have sufficient staff at the regional levels to respond to communities that need assistance?

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1257

The Chair John Ningark

Thank you, madam Minister.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1257

Manitok Thompson Aivilik

Yes, we do. One of the comments that was brought forward from the Status of Women's meeting was that they have a mental health specialist at the regional level that would probably be tailored better if it was at the local level, if the money was transferred to the communities instead of being at a regional level, so that his salary can be split between those people. I am just trying to make a point that some of the regional staff are nor tailored enough to their local communities.

But, yes we do have sufficient staff at the regional departments. Thank you.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1257

The Chair John Ningark

Thank you, the honourable member for Nunakput, Mr. Steen.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1257

Vince Steen

Vince Steen Nunakput

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman I would like now to follow up a little on the questions that Mr. Krutko was asking in regards to which group or body this government would recognize whereby we have a situation where both bodies would request to take on, let us say, social services? Which group, if we have a situation where we have a band

council, a hamlet council, a community corporation, which group would the government recognize as the one that would have the first option to take over this service?

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1258

The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Madam Minister.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1258

Manitok Thompson Aivilik

Thank you, Mr. Chair. I understand where the MLA is coming from. There are all different types of assessments that would be done before anything happens and I could just list that there are three types of assessments to be considered including self-assessment, GNWT assessment and joint assessment. During these assessments there would be a lot of consultation with the groups that are interested so, there would be..it does not happen overnight, this would take a lot of time, assessing who would be able to take on the program.

We are looking at a single administrative point that can be block funded or it can be, as I said up to three single administrative points, and they can have a choice of social programs and services, and infrastructure programs and services, economic resource programs and services. If there was a duplication of people wanting the same responsibility, it would have to go through the assessment team, and everything would be assessed first. We have quite an intensive assessment program that we would do. Thank you Mr. Chair.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1258

The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Mr. Steen.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1258

Vince Steen

Vince Steen Nunakput

Mr. Chairman, I guess what I am trying to get at here is, is there a body in the community that the government recognizes as the prime public body? We would have situations where the hamlet council, and say, the community corporation both want to take on a certain responsibility. I think this government has to come forward with a statement at some point in time, that for instance, is it the hamlet that would have the first option to take this responsibility. In the past, Mr. Chairman, groups that wanted to take on certain services or responsibilities, like for instance, the crisis centres or the alcohol centres, before they could receive funding they had to have a letter of support from the local hamlet council. Is this process still followed? That is my question. If for instance the community corporation wanted to take something on, would it require a letter from the hamlet council, for instance, in order to do so.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1258

The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Madam Minister.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1258

Manitok Thompson Aivilik

Thank you Mr. Chair. The first challenge we have as a department, is to try to get the community together, and that is a big challenge. I think if we can talk about the basic needs of the community, we should be able to accomplish that goal, but right now we are recognizing the municipal body as the first point of contact, but we have to talk to the other groups in the community, and get the whole community working together, and different organizations, in order to start up on this community empowerment initiative. The Hamlet would be taking the lead in the presentation, if they wanted to do that, but we are making ourselves available to the other groups in the community. The challenge we have in the department is that we have to get all the groups working together first, and get it co-ordinated after they start working together. Thank you Mr. Chair.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1258

The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. General comments. Are there any further general comments? If not, do we agree that the matter under consideration, Tabled Document 90-13(3), and Tabled Document 91-13(3), are concluded.

---Agreed.

Following the recommendation from the Chairman from the ordinary Members caucus, we will go to Tabled Document 7-13(3), Social Programs Mid-Year Review Report. Agreed?

---Agreed.

Thank you. I would like to recognize the Chairman of the Standing Committee on Social Programs, Mr. Enuaraq.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1259

Tommy Enuaraq Baffin Central

Thank you Mr. Chairman. I would like to report on the review of the NWT Housing Corporation Mid-Year Status Report by the Standing Committee on Social Programs.

As part of the mid-year review, the Housing Corporation provided information on its restructuring. The committee reviewed the new organizational structure, and will look at it further during the 1997/98 business plan review.

In reviewing the structure, the committee wanted to see that the services are delivered as close to communities as possible. The committee is aware that the amalgamation of the Corporation with Public Works and Services and Transportation is being considered.

While some of the work of the corporation is related to infrastructure development and maintenance, there is another side to the work the corporation is doing. In many ways, the Corporation's mandate to provide social housing is a key component in our social safety net. Co-ordination with the programs like income reform is crucial. With these considerations as well as the transfer of Housing as part of community empowerment, the committee will be looking closely at any proposal to ensure the social program component of the Corporation is recognized and maintained.

Therefore I move that the committee recommends that no implementation of this amalgamation should proceed until all ordinary Members have a chance to review the proposal and debate its merits, regardless of whether the Corporation is being restructured or amalgamated with other departments.

Members believe that the organization's structure could provide more support directly at the community level. There are still many staff at the district level who are supposed to provide community support and development. The committee suggests it is difficult to do community development in Fort Resolution if you work in Hay River, just as it is difficult to do community development in Cape Dorset if you are based in Iqaluit. The committee would like to see a plan to have more district staff working directly in the communities. This plan should address the differences between the program and technical sides of the Corporation, training needs and the issue of duplication of services, LHOs versus district staff.

Housing is one of the areas being considered by many communities as part of empowerment. The committee believes that there is need for appropriate support as communities assume responsibility for the local housing authorities. At the community and territorial level, integration of housing services with other initiatives in the social envelope is crucial. This must be reflected in any program transfers to communities. There has been a change in the way local housing authorities are funded. The new arrangements provide incentives to authorities which find more effective ways of doing business, and able to save money. The committee supports this approach which rewards those who are effective and efficient in how they do their business.

The Housing Corporation is currently running four pilot projects for panel-built homes. These projects are consistent for new and innovative approaches to address our housing shortage. If the results of these pilot projects are positive, the committee encourages the Corporation to promote this panel construction with the view to having the panels made in the north.

Over the past year, committee members have had concerns with utility costs and public housing. The committee asked the Corporation to prepare analysis of utility costs, with the view to identifying problem areas and solutions. This analysis was provided to the committee during the review and was very enlightening for both the Corporation and the Members. While there are certainly individuals living in public housing who are not careful in their utility use, the average public housing consumption is either consistent with, or lower than the average usage in private housing. The difference in costs seems to come from the higher government rate the Corporation has to pay for utilities.

The analysis provided was very well done, and should help the Corporation identify the true areas of concern and develop appropriate solutions.

I now would like to ask Mr. Roland to continue our report.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1260

The Chair John Ningark

Mr. Enuaraq, during your presentation here, did you intend to make a motion here. I believe that the recommendation that you read, was already made in the form of a motion. You stated "therefore I move that the committee recommends that no implementation of this amalgamation should proceed until all ordinary Members have a chance to review the proposal and debate its merits." Did you intend to make that a motion? Thank you.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1260

Tommy Enuaraq Baffin Central

No, Mr. Chairman.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1260

The Chair John Ningark

Thank you, Mr. Enuaraq. Mr. Roland.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1260

Floyd Roland

Floyd Roland Inuvik

Thank you Mr. Chairman. I will report on the Department of Education, Culture and Employment.

The Department of Education, Culture and Employment proposed a number of initiatives in its Business Plan. Based on the information provided during the mid-year report, the department is moving forward on these projects consistent with the directions approved by the Standing Committee.

The Committee was disappointed that the early intervention initiative is slightly behind schedule. One of the best ways to relieve the stresses on our social programs is through prevention and early intervention. Early intervention is productive, not just for the children and families involved, but also for the network of people who deal with children with difficulties, such as teachers, nurses, and court workers. Members encourage the department to continue with the planning phase and get early intervention programs up and running in our communities.

The issue of an NWT job strategy was raised with the Minister. He suggested the Labour Force Plan could be considered a summary of the various job strategies that the government is involved with. If this is the case, and there is a job strategy within the department, Members would like to see this pulled together in a way that people can see it. They want to know if the Minister is just referring to training and pre-employment, or a true job strategy, which would address affirmative action among other things.

Members had a particular interest in the mining training project. The government is working with Aurora College to establish programs to train northerners for jobs in the mining industry.

There was also a job shadow program over the summer which trained twenty-two students. The committee will be monitoring this initiative in the hopes that it will provide northerners with the skills to participate in mining development.

While the Committee was pleased to see the initiatives in the mining areas, Members were concerned with what seems to be a piecemeal approach to date. As the Minister indicated, their is significant opportunity for employment within the mining sector, not just in the future, but now. Currently, there are 150 vacancies in mining operations every year. The longer we wait for the government to develop training programs, the more jobs are lost. There are many people in our communities who could take some of these 150 jobs a year, if they had the training.

As part of the work through Aurora College, the committee suggests the department consider establishing a mining institute, which could train northerners for the opportunities already here, and those yet to come.

My colleague, Mr. Miltenberger, will now continue our report.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1261

The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. The Member for Thebacha, Mr. Miltenberger.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1261

Michael Miltenberger

Michael Miltenberger Thebacha

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I would like to provide our report on the Mid-Year Status Review of the Department of Health and Social Services.

The committee appreciated the candour of the Minister and the department in providing a clear picture of the reductions proposed and the lack of success of the department in meeting many of the reduction targets. This openness allowed a free discussion of issues and concerns.

The Department has indicated they are short of their target by almost $9 million. When the Business Plan was provided to the committee in January, Members expressed a concern about the ability of the Department to achieve what seemed to be a very ambitious slate of reductions and changes. Significant slippage to what the department proposed in medical travel reductions the previous year, added to the concerns of the committee. At the time, the Minister and his staff reassured the Members that the department had greatly improved the quality of their analysis and information they used to make their decisions. They indicated that while there may have been superficial analysis in the past, that was no longer the case. Despite reservations the Committee approved the reduction options and gave direction regarding the need for a coordinated approach between some of the options. The Mid Year Report demonstrates that there is a still a problem with the quality of analysis carried out by the department when reviewing options and program changes. This is an area which the Committee considers very serious and hopes that the Minister and his staff will make efforts to correct. As you make more difficult decisions over the next year, the Committee must be able to have confidence in the information provided. The Mid Year Report talked a lot about planning and studying. In most cases there are no time lines attached to projects to indicate when planning will finish and action will begin.

In reviewing past reports of the Assembly, the department has always done many studies and plans. The Committee is concerned that it is time to move out of the planning mode and into the implementation mode. The Committee is under the assumption that the department's business plan was sustainable. Members are concerned that this is apparently not the case. The department indicated that additional work would be required before sustainable plans could be developed. The department also indicated they are not receiving quarterly reports from the Health Boards. If the business plans are not sustainable and there is no regular accountability from the Boards who receive a large portion of the department's budget, the Committee questions the validity of the department's next business plan which we expect to review in a few weeks.

The department is supposed to be a leader in community wellness. However, there is a lack of clarity about what the department means by community wellness. Members question how communities can be expected to use community action fund dollars to develop community wellness plans when the Minister has defined community wellness as a state of being we aim to achieve. When we are talking about community wellness, communities want and need something concrete and practical. As the Committee has stated before, this does not mean the government should tell communities what to do. What government must provide is a clear framework so communities understand the scope of what they can consider.

During the business plan review, the Committee had recommended that the department look at a new approach to alcohol and drug treatment since the current approach does not seem to be particularly successful. Part of this was looking at the roles of the alcohol and drug treatment facilities in the N.W.T. Members recognize that these facilities have not always been used to full capacity in the past. The Committee felt the new funding arrangement was intended in part to encourage facilities to increase occupancy. The new formula provides for some core funding. Facilities can then receive per diem rates up to 100% of the old core funding. With the upper limit capped, members questioned how this encourages facilities to have full occupancy and the additional cost for staff and supplies that go along with more use.

When discussing capital, members questioned the Minister about changes to two proposed health centre replacements. They were concerned about why fund were moved from one project to another. There were also questions about the capital planning process and how priorities could change in the short period from passing the capital budget to when the changes were made in the summer. Members listened carefully to the Minister's explanation for the changes including the involvement of mayors and councils from the affected communities.

Without clear guidelines regarding changes to the capital plan, the Minister was forced to make a decision based, in part, on subjective factors. The Committee hopes that the new policy on capital changes will assist Ministers in making objective choices in consultation with the Corporate Member in Standing Committee.

Mr. Erasmus will now complete the Report of the Standing Committee on Social Programs.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1262

The Chair John Ningark

Thank you Mr. Miltenberger. Mr. Erasmus.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1262

Roy Erasmus Yellowknife North

Thank you Mr. Chairman. I will give the report of the Standing Committee on the Department of Justice.

The key initiative in reviewing the Mid Year Activity Report of this department was community justice. It is clear from overcrowding in our correctional facilities that the current approach to dealing with those who break the law is not working. Members see electronic monitoring as a possible solution -- sorry Mr. Chairman -- I do not know how that word slipped in there -- it should read -- Members see community justice as a possible solution. Unfortunately, the department has not been able to provide a clear framework for community justice to the Committee.

As with community wellness,

-- Laughter.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1262

The Chair John Ningark

We will take a momentary pause here. I believe there is something stuck in the Member's throat, so we will take a few minutes. Tell me when you are ready - signal when you are ready. Okay, Mr. Erasmus.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1262

Roy Erasmus Yellowknife North

Thank you Mr. Chairman. As I was saying. As with community wellness, Members believe that while the government should not tell communities how to do community justice, there must be a concrete and practical framework for communities to use as a starting point.

The Committee was pleased to hear about the success of two programs which increased the participation of Northerners in local policing. There was a very successful community constable project with the RCMP where more than 20 by-law officers from across the North received training at RCMP Training Headquarters in Regina. These officers will now provide back-up to the RCMP in their communities. In Yellowknife, civilians were sworn in as auxiliary police to assist the police in specific areas. This again seems to be very successful and hopefully can be implemented in some of the other large communities.

One of the reduction options presented by the department during the business plan was eliminating inmate pay. After it was approved by a Standing Committee, the Minister decided to place this reduction on hold. During the Mid Year Review, the Minister indicated first, that there was 50% reduction to inmate pay, then later that there was no change to inmate pay. The Committee would like clarification of what is happening with inmate pay.

Mr. Chairman, this concludes the Report of the Standing Committee on Social Programs.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1263

The Chair John Ningark

I would like to thank members of the Social Program Committee for making the presentation. Do we have any general comments with regards to the Tabled Document 7-13(3)? - Committee Report - correction. Mr. Todd.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1263

John Todd Keewatin Central

Thank you Mr. Chairman. On behalf of the Cabinet and FMB we appreciate the cooperative language in this report and the recommendations. It demonstrates that this Committee is committed to working with the Cabinet and the Minister to reach consensus on important issues.

Mr. Chairman, we want to conclude tomorrow do we? On issues that affect all our people. The recommendations have been noted and a coordinated response will be developed as in the past by FMB and forwarded to the appropriate Committees. Thank you.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1263

The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Are there any other concerns? If not, do we agree that Committee Report 7-13(3) is concluded? Mr. Steen.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1263

Vince Steen

Vince Steen Nunakput

Mr. Chairman, I note that the Report from Justice ends with a question.

I would like clarification on that as well. I believe the question is, the Minister indicated first there was a 50 percent reduction to inmate pay and then later there was no change to inmate pay. The Committee would like clarification as to what is happening with inmate pay.

Could the Minister indicate to the Committee what is happening with inmate pay.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1263

The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. The Chair will recognize the Minister of Finance and Chairperson of the Financial Management Board, Mr. Todd.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1263

John Todd Keewatin Central

Yes thank you Mr. Chairman. WE are not trying to avoid answering the questions on the floor today but the process is that we will respond in a coordinated approach through the FMB and we will report back to Committee and answer each of the recommendations and questions that have been asked in report. We will be clear and unequivocal which ones we support, which ones we do not and which ones require further discussions. Again, it is not to avoid answering Mr. Steen's question today but we want to take a coordinated approach to answering the total Committee's report and recommendations and direction that is provided. Thank you.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1263

The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Any further general comments? Mr. Steen.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1263

Vince Steen

Vince Steen Nunakput

I take it, Mr. Chairman, that the Minister is not prepared to tell us tonight.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1263

The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Mr. Minister.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1263

John Todd Keewatin Central

Yes, we are not trying to avoid it, Mr. Chairman. Do not misunderstand me. We are just going to take the normal approach where we coordinate our response and it will be in writing, and will lay out where we support and what we do not and what our questions are as we have in the past and it is not any intent to avoid answering the question at this time.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1263

The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Mr. Steen.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1263

Vince Steen

Vince Steen Nunakput

Mr. Chairman, I would appreciate a copy of the response, when it is supplied to the Committee, if that is possible.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1263

The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Mr. Todd.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1263

John Todd Keewatin Central

I want to be clear, because I think it is a legitimate concern that Mr. Steen raises. We will provide a response to the committee, and all committee Members, and yes, we will provide Mr. Steen

with a copy.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1264

The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Do we have further general comments, or concerns on the report, number seven? If not, do we agree that Report 7-13(3) is concluded?

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1264

Members

Agreed.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1264

The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Shall we move on to Report 8-13(3) Resource Management Mid-Year Review Report. Mr. Krutko.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1264

David Krutko

David Krutko Mackenzie Delta

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. During the mid-year activity review, Mr. Chairman, Members were disappointed that the government decision to seek input from all ordinary Members before consulting the Standing Committee on Resource Management Development.

Therefore, I move that the Committee recommend that the Government consult with the Standing Committee on strategies and initiatives before seeking for input from all ordinary Members. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I will Mr. Mark Evaloarjuk to continue with the Committee report.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1264

The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Before I recognize Mr. Evaloarjuk, I would like to ask Mr. Krutko, are you making a motion here, or is it a recommendation?

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1264

David Krutko

David Krutko Mackenzie Delta

It is a recommendation.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1264

The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. It is not a motion. Mr. Evaloarjuk.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

October 17th, 1996

Page 1264

Mark Evaloarjuk Amittuq

(Translation) Thank you, Mr. Chairman. The Department of Resources, Wildlife and Economic Development Members were disappointed to see that these 3 Departments although not consolidated provided information to the Committee using the old departmental structure. Members were also concerned about the Minister's apparent inability to answer specific questions regarding strategies and initiatives outlined in the Business Plan when committee meetings were first commenced.

Nevertheless the Committee was pleased that the Minister was able to provide more detailed information the following day. Mr. Chairman, I would like to ask Mr. Krutko to continue with the Committee report.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1264

The Chair John Ningark

Mr. Krutko.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1264

David Krutko

David Krutko Mackenzie Delta

Thank you Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, the Committee is glad to report that the initiative strategies outlined in the Business Plan are for the most part on schedule. The Minister's report, virtually all the cost savings initiatives outlined earlier have either been completed or are currently in progress. The Minister also reported new initiatives not previously outlined in the Business Plan. Those projects include the harvesting of snow geese in the Keewatin. Pollution prevention programs. Distrailed benefits strategies. The Committee was supportive of those initiatives and noted that the new projects were just funded.

Capital changes. The old capital changes. The only capital changes that the Department made was to the NWT Development Corporation. The Development Corporation original budget was increased by $252,000.00. The Committee was told that this amount represents an insurance claim for the loss resulting from a fire that destroyed the Pangnirtung print shop. The Committee was further informed that this amount would be reimbursed once an insurance settlement was finalized. Members were satisfied with this explanation and noted that it would not adversely affect the GNWT financial position.

However, members were concerned with the apparent lack of planning on behalf of the NWT Development Corporation in this situation. The fire occurred over a year a go. The members felt that the Development Corporation should have been able to budget for this item. In short, members felt that the NWT Development Corporation should have used its own funds as a float rather that the Consolidated Revenues account.

After revisiting this item, members still felt that this fate of unanswered question, plus with the transfer of the $252,000.00 to the Development Corporation budget. Those include who observed the $100,000.00, sorry, who absorbs the $100,000.00 insurance deductible? The Government of the Northwest Territories or the NWT Development Corporation?

The other question was when is this return of the $200,000.00 or $252,000.00 expected? What was the final cost to replace the Pangnirtung Print Shop? And last question, why was the print shop replaced before the insurance claim was finalized?

I would ask, Mr. Chairman that Mr. Ootes continue with the report. Mr. Ootes.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1265

The Chair John Ningark

Thank you Mr. Krutko. Mr. Ootes.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1265

Jake Ootes

Jake Ootes Yellowknife Centre

Thank you Mr. Chairman. The Department of Transportation mid-year activity report. The Committee was informed by the Minister and his staff the projects and initiatives outlined in the Business Plan were for the most part on schedule. Members noted that virtually all O & M reductions were complete. And that only one person had been laid off although 29 P.Y.'s were cut.

Capital changes. Resolute Bay air terminal. Members questioned why the Resolute Bay air terminal replacement project had been cut back by $633,000.00. The Minister stated that originally this project included a full flight service station. But Transport Canada was now favouring a more automated C.A.R.S. system - Community Aerodrome Radio Station. This change facilitated a saving of $633,000.00. Members noted that the Minister seemed ill prepared to address this issue and were left with numerous questions. Has Transport Canada made a final decision regarding this facility? If such a decision has been made by the federal government members would like to know when it was made.

The department provided the following explanation. $288,000.00 was transferred to the Gjoa Haven airport overlay taxi runway apron project. This additional amount was required to cover increased raw material costs. Crushed gravel for example and lighting systems. $300,000.00 was transferred to Hay River to rehabilitate the existing runway. Frost heaving is a problem in this area and has increased a...pardon me, has created an unsafe landing surface. $45,000.00 was transferred to Cambridge Bay application. This is a pilot project to test the effectiveness of a chemical agent that helps bind gravel together on airport runways. If this project is successful, the department of transportation plans to test its dust control capabilities on local roadways.

The Committee wishes to note that this tembind application project has a total budget of $135,000.00. The balance of $90,000.00 came from the airport upgrading project in Kugluktuk.

I would ask, Mr. Chairman, that Mr. Rabesca continue with the committee report.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1265

The Chair John Ningark

Thank you Mr. Ootes. Mr. Rabesca.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1265

Rabesca

Thank you Mr. Chairman. Highways 3A and 3B Kilometre 0 to 243. Committee was told that tenders came in lower than anticipated on this project and resulted in savings of $606,000.00. This amount was

subsequently transferred to Highway 3B Kilometres 154 to 243. Where significant work is still required. The Committee understood the rationale for this transfer but was disappointed at the poor level of budgeting planning in this case.

Fort Simpson access paving. The Minister told the Committee that second stage paving originally planned for Highway #1B was not required as the road did not deteriorate as rapidly as expected. Resulting saving totalled $800,000.00. The Committee was surprised to find out that the Minister took the bulk of these funds, $650,000.00 and paved an access road to a new subdivision area just outside of Fort Simpson.

The Committee was alarmed to learn that this project did not even appear on the Department's 5 year capital plan. The Minister did not give any explanation for this except to say that the Mayor of Fort Simpson played a major role in this decision. Members were extremely annoyed by this event. The Committee has noted that a municipal mayor had more input into the Minister's decision than the public, Legislative Assembly and Standing Committees combined.

The Committee had recommended that no future changes to the capital budget plans be carried out without involvement of the agreements of the affected MLA's. This has however already been addressed through a motion in the House. Thank you Mr. Chairman. I will ask Mr. O'Brien, deputy chair of the Standing Committee of Resource Management and Development conclude the report.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1266

The Chair John Ningark

Thank you Mr. Rabesca. The Honourable member for Kivallivik, Mr. O'Brien.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1266

Kevin O'Brien Kivallivik

Thank you Mr. Chairman for reference me as honourable. My comments are reference to Safety and Public Services mid-year activity report. During the review of the 3 year Business Plan submitted by this Department in the Spring of 1996, the Standing Committee of Resource Management and Development noted that the Department planned to prepare for departmentally structuring necessary for Division 1999. And to plan and carry the orderly transfer of Occupational Health and Safety to the Workman's Compensation Board.

It was only during the mid-year activity report review that the Committee found out about the Government's plan to completely dismantle this Department. The Committee had not been consulted about this initiative nor was the Committee provided an update in the Department's mid-year activity report. It must be pointed out that the Committee members had significant involvement in the consolidation of Resources, Wildlife and Economic Development.

Given the Committee's non involvement in the dismantling of the Department of Safety and Public Works, members are extremely sceptical of the Government's proposal regarding this initiative. During the mid-year activity review, the Department did not provide an update on the dismantling of this Department. Members noted that the Department made no attempt to provide this information in advance of the meeting.

The Minister stated that a strategy paper on the dismantling of Safety and Public Services would be completed shortly and distributed to all members of the Assembly. Members are also very disappointed by these actions, and I remind the Minister of the Committee's responsibility to review policy proposals of the Department in this envelope.

Therefore, Mr. Chairman, I move that the Committee recommend all future items dealing with the dismantling of Safety and Public Services, including the strategy papers, be delivered to the Standing Committee on Resource Management and Development for review and input before items are distributed to all ordinary members.

Under capital changes. There were no capital changes to this Department. Thank you Mr. Chairman.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1266

The Chair John Ningark

Thank you Mr. O'Brien. You indicated, you

expressed the phrase that you moved a motion here. As other members have indicated therefore, I move Mr. Chairman, I move. Technically speaking they were just a recommendation. Are you making this as a motion or just a recommendation?

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1267

Kevin O'Brien Kivallivik

Just a recommendation Mr. Chairman.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1267

The Chair John Ningark

Thank you Mr. O'Brien. We are reviewing tabled document report coming to report 8. Are there any general comments on the committee report 8 from the floor? If not, do we have...Mr. Todd.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1267

John Todd Keewatin Central

Mr. Chairman if I may in keeping with my previous comments, we appreciate some of the concerns raised in the report by the Committee members. However I think it would be fair to say we are somewhat concerned with some of the language in the report which is in our opinion somewhat combative and in some cases can be inflammatory. However we will respond to the report as I indicated earlier in the previous report through the FMB and coordinate a response to the appropriate committee chairs. Thank you.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1267

The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Do we agree that this matter is concluded? Agreed. The table Committee report 8-1(13) pardon me 8-13(3) is concluded. Shall move on to the next item? The committee report 9-13(3) Infrastructure mid year review report. Mr. Barnabas.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1267

Levi Barnabas High Arctic

Thank you Mr. Chairman. Under Executive. Dissolution of the Department of Personnel. When the functions of the old Department of Personnel, later the Personnel Secretariat were distributed to the departments, the Executive retained a budget of 2.2 million along with 9 PYs. The Committee had some interest in the use of the 2.2 million that was retained by the department. Sorry. The Minister assured the Committee that the money is being used as planned in the areas of policy development, auditing and training and community empowerment.

The Committee was interested in the mandate for the Working Group on Territorial Interests. The Minister stated that this Committee is comprised of Deputy Ministers who are developing a mandate for community empowerment. The Minister expects a framework to be developed and brought to Cabinet in October.

Committee members are concerned that the Government is barging ahead with community empowerment without having first completed this mandate. Developing a mandate for community empowerment should have been completed before any implementation is carried out.

On the physical and political autonomy, the Committee was informed the strategic plan for intergovernmental relations was being developed and should be ready in September. The Minister noted that the strategic plan was being developed by Cabinet has yet to review it. Committee members are concerned that this plan should be reviewed by all members before being implemented.

Devolution and community empowerment. The Committee has concerns that the Government does not have policy in place which lists those programs and services that are absent for devolution to regions and communities. Members are particularly concerned about transportation infrastructure. The Committee wants to ensure that highways and airports are not on the table of items that can be devolved. I will now ask the member from Nunakput to read the next section of the Standing Committee's report. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1267

The Chair John Ningark

Thank you, Mr. Barnabas, the honourable member for Nunakput, Mr. Steen.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1267

Vince Steen

Vince Steen Nunakput

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Finance, expenditures and savings. Noting that the Standing Committee on Government Operations has been informed of the deficit for 1994/95 will be less than forecast, committee members requested information on the subsequent savings on interest costs to the Government. The Minister stated that the Government is only half way through the year and there has not been a need to borrow yet.

However, it is projected that interest payments will be substantially lower and there will be a savings of approximately one million.

Tax options. Committee members discussed the implications of the BHP diamond project with the Minister. Members were told that discussion were under way with BHP regarding the establishment of a sound employment strategy, provisions ensuring the priority of using competitive northern businesses and a tax regime that would benefit the north as well as the company.

The Minister informed the committee that a tax options paper was being developed by an inter-departmental committee and should be available to members for review in October.

Consolidation of tax administration and revenue. Apparently there is no actual dollar savings from amalgamating the divisions of tax administration and revenue and assets management. The Minister did state, however, that the amalgamation has improved efficiency by reducing the paper flow. This makes up for areas which are extra work for the Department such as the payroll tax.

The Government is presently reviewing the desirability of maintaining the payroll tax. At this time the Minister stated that the payroll tax is regressive and he is considering eliminating it. The costs to administer the tax do not justify the net revenue realized. The gross amount collected is approximately twelve million but eleven million is paid out in the cost of living tax credit and administration costs total three to four hundred thousand dollars, leaving a net benefit of only six to seven hundred thousand dollars. Committee members agreed that this tax is not cost effective. The Committee recommend that the government repeal the payroll tax.

Mr. Chairman, I will now ask the honourable Member from Hay River to read the next section of the Standing Committee's report.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1268

The Chair John Ningark

Thank you, Mr. Erasmus.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1268

Roy Erasmus Yellowknife North

Mr. Chairman, I move that we extend the sitting hours until we finish this particular report.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1268

The Chair John Ningark

Mr. Chairman I am informed Mr. Erasmus, that was not a point of order and by suggesting that you were about to make a point of order, using that to gain the floor, thereby your motion is out of order.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1268

Vince Steen

Vince Steen Nunakput

Mr. Chairman, since I have the floor, I move to extend sitting hours until the report is finalized.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1268

The Chair John Ningark

Thank you, there is a motion on the floor to extend the hour until we conclude the matter at hand. Do we agree?

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1268

Members

Agreed.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1268

The Chair John Ningark

Okay. All those in favour please signify. Opposed? The motion is carried. The sitting hours are extended until we conclude the matter at hand. Mrs. Groenewegen.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1268

Jane Groenewegen

Jane Groenewegen Hay River

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Possible amalgamation of FMBS and Finance. While consolidating the Financial Management Board Secretariat and the Department of Finance was one of the twenty-four options considered by the new Assembly earlier this year, committee members now feel strongly that this proposal should be abandoned. The Committee does not believe that the agency primarily responsible for collecting and managing revenue, Finance, should be under the same roof as the agency primarily responsible for budgeting and expenditure management, FMBS.

Committee members were glad to hear that the proposal is on hold due to other priorities, but this is not enough. The Committee does not want to see any more government resources assigned to this issue. Therefore, I move that the Committee recommend that the government abandon any plans to amalgamate the Department of Finance and the Financial Management Board Secretariat.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1269

The Chair John Ningark

Madam, are you making a motion here?

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1269

Jane Groenewegen

Jane Groenewegen Hay River

No, it is not a motion, Mr. Chairman.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1269

The Chair John Ningark

Thank you, continue please.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1269

Jane Groenewegen

Jane Groenewegen Hay River

Committee members expressed concern regarding sale of remaining GNWT staff housing. While the Committee understands the principal behind the sale, there exists concerns about the effect of this policy on staff such as teachers and nurses, many of whom are not willing to purchase staff housing.

Committee members noted community concerns that without adequate staff housing being available communities might find it difficult to attract staff to fill positions. The net benefit of the revenue from the sale of these houses was also noted as a concern when contrasted with the current revenue stream generated from staff housing. The Committee urges the Government to ensure that these concerns are fully addressed before the sale of these staff housing units are finalized.

Results of investment search initiative. Committee members were pleased to see the government moving ahead on the initiatives resulting from the investment search such as an immigrant investor program. The Committee looks forward to receiving more information about other initiatives as they become available.

Preparations for division. The Committee raised some questions about financial issues which must be addressed in preparation for division in 1999. One prime example is the necessity to identify the Government's assets and liabilities and to develop the process for dividing them between the two new territories, therefore, the Committee recommended that the Minister complete the development of a timeline on the process for identifying and dividing assets and liabilities and on other division related financial processes.

If community empowerment is to continue to proceed it must be implemented in an orderly fashion. The Committee is adamant that actual transfers of responsibility must not take place before appropriate preparations are in place.

I will now ask the honourable Member for Yellowknife South to read the next section of the Standing Committee's report.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1269

The Chair John Ningark

Thank you, Mrs. Groenewegen. Mr. Henry.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1269

Seamus Henry Yellowknife South

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Public Works and Services, user say - user pay. This initiative has seen responsibility for management and payment of telephone services delegated to the departments with responsibility for vehicle fuel and external mail have just been converted on October 1st, 1996. All direct printing and publications is now done through the local contract authorities. Now, with over a $5,000 expenditure limit.

The Government expects that overall costs will go down and each Department is responsible for the payment of these services. The Standing Committee is watching for impacts to the departments with the de-regulating of these responsibilities. The Standing Committee will continue to monitor the effectiveness of this initiative and the positive or negative impacts to individual departments.

Privatization initiatives. Switchboard services were privatized in June 1996. The Government is now proceeding with the privatization of petroleum products and systems and communications. Requests for expressions of interest and requests for proposals have been advertised and the government is reviewing the submissions. The Standing Committee had many questions regarding the reduction in upgrading of tank farms. Members were concerned that if the tank farms are not kept up to standard it could have a negative impact on the privatization initiative.

Committee members feel that the tank farms should be brought up to standard before privatization of petroleum products distribution proceeds. During our review of this initiative, the Minister was unable to confirm that capital dollars were being reduced and therefore, less money would be available to ensure the tank farms were in good order. Therefore, I move that the Committee recommend that the Government ensure that all tank farms are brought up to standard before awarding a contract under this privatization initiative.

The Standing Committee was concerned about how the government has accounted for the issue of environmental liability if there should be any accidents by petroleum products contractors under this initiative. The Minister assured the Committee that the Department has begun a study in this area. The Committee also suggested that the Government must account for liabilities for fuel spillages and clean ups that may have occurred in the past and expects the Government to inform the Committee as to how they will account for such things.

Committee Members also have some concerns about the effect privatization will have in its creation of local monopolies for fuel delivery and storage. The Government must ensure that communities are protected from any possibility of unfair pricing or other practices.

The Standing Committee is very concerned that the Government has not identified a clear list of priorities, objectives, and goals for privatization. Committee Members feel that this is an important step that should not be overlooked.

The Standing Committee had some concerns about the future of regional computer operations in the Nunavut area. The Minister explained that, while operation of computer facilities and headquarters will be privatized, operation of regional computers will be retained until decisions are made regarding the future of these facilities after division.

Community Empowerment. The community empowerment initiative will see the transfer of buildings and lands to some communities. This transfer would include the maintenance and operation of these buildings and lands. With the deferral of capital projects happening at this time of fiscal restraint, the Standing Committee is concerned that communities that accept the responsibility for these buildings, under the community empowerment initiative, will be facing certain financial hardship, trying to operate and maintain structures whose maintenance may not be up-to-date upon transfer.

The Standing Committee is also concerned that this Government does not have adequate checks in place to ensure that each community will succeed if we devolve these responsibilities.

Mr. Chairman, I will now ask the honourable Member for the High Arctic, my good friend, Mr. Barnabas, to read the next section of the Standing Committee's report.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1271

The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Mr. Henry, on page fifteen, and seventeen, you make a motion. I believe that the intention was not to make a motion, but a recommendation.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1271

Seamus Henry Yellowknife South

You have it correct, a recommendation.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1271

The Chair John Ningark

Thank you, Mr. Henry. Mr. Barnabas.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1271

Levi Barnabas High Arctic

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Thank you my good friend, Mr. Henry.

Under Intergovernmental and Aboriginal Affairs, Makivik Offshore Claim, the Committee was concerned about the status of Makivik Offshore Claim, and the possible repercussions of the claim on the Northwest Territories and Nunavut, in particular. Committee Members expressed serious concern about this issue. The Minister has noted that there were significant issues regarding this claim, particularly on the national level. The jurisdictional rights of the Northwest Territories are at stake, and the Government must be pro-active in protecting the NWT's territory. The Committee would like more details on this claim, and requests a written report detailing the negotiations to date.

Land Claims and Self-Government

The Committee still has difficulty with the small ministry requiring three Ministers, and the ongoing recommendation of this Committee has been that only one Minister should be in charge of this ministry. The Committee recommended that this issue be addressed by the Government Operations Committee.

I will now ask the Chairman of the Standing Committee on Infrastructure, the honourable Member for Iqaluit, to read the final section of the standing committee's report. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1271

The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. The honourable Member for Iqaluit, Mr. Picco.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1271

Edward Picco Iqaluit

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Changes to the Capital Plan. The Committee noted that there was significant changes to the department's 96/97 Capital Plan. In fact, out of a $31,000,000 capital budget, over $15,000,000 in projects saw changes of some sort. While there were no increases, the Committee was still very concerned, that adequate explanations of these changes, some of which were great importance, did not reach Committee staff, until two days after the Minister's scheduled appearance. The Minister should have been aware that the Committee would be expecting appropriate explanations of these changes as part of its mid-year review.

On Community Empowerment. The Committee is unanimous in applauding the principle of community empowerment. Committee Members feel that when communities make decisions for themselves, the decisions are more likely to be effective ones.

However, as noted elsewhere in this report, Committee members have some serious, serious concerns with the progress to date of implementing community empowerment. The Committee noted that plans to transfer many responsibilities, including provisions to allow non tax-based municipalities to borrow for land development, and capital projects, are proceeding before such basic steps as reviewing the municipal financial system is in place, to ensure that they are capable of monitoring their increased responsibility.

The Standing Committee agrees with the principle of community empowerment. However, the Committee does not believe that community empowerment should be merely downloading responsibilities to communities without providing adequate resources. Community empowerment should be an attitude of encouraging community's growth.

The issue of providing loans to non tax-based municipalities is especially worrisome to Committee Members. There have already been problems with tax-based municipalities having difficulty in handling loans. The Committee is extremely concerned that non tax-based municipalities, lacking the revenue potential from property taxation, and also often lacking the resources available to larger tax-based municipalities, will undoubtedly run into problems with borrowing money. The Minister explained that a change from approving individual capital projects for communities to a scheme of formula-based, block funding will ensure consistent revenue streams for non tax-based municipalities. However, Committee Members still worry about the integrity of that stream of funds, noting the arbitrary five percent reduction in block funding to Yellowknife, that occurred this year, as part of the government's restraint program.

Therefore, I recommend that the Committee recommend that any legislation or policies allowing loans to non tax-based municipalities, be based on criteria similar to those that would be demanded by a private financial institution, before making such loans.

While the Minister assured the Committee, that the Department is not forcing the transfer the responsibilities to communities, Committee Members see it differently. Concern exists that communities may be seeing community empowerment as a choice between taking over provision of a service, or losing the service completely.

Education and Training Programs

Committee Members recognize that training to municipalities provided by the Department, training for elected officials, municipal administrators, by-law enforcement officer, fire fighters, and so on, is extremely valuable and critical to the success of community empowerment. However, Members wondered if such training and education might be more effectively provided by the Department of Education, Culture and Employment, or perhaps by Aurora and Nunavut Arctic Colleges. While MACA would certainly have the primary responsibility to determine training needs, and to develop the policies and principles behind the education and training provided to municipalities, Committee Members feel that ECE, and the colleges, are better equipped to actually deliver the training.

Therefore, the Committee recommends that the Department transfer the responsibility to provide training and education at the municipal level, to the Department of Education, Culture and Employment, and/or Aurora and Nunavut Arctic Colleges.

Sports and Recreation. Committee Members were pleased to hear of the progress of the review of the NWT's participation in multi-sports games, such as the Arctic Winter Games, and of the overall review of Sport North that is under way.

With regard to multi-sport games, the committee suggests that the Department focus on games which allow all northerners to participate and be involved, such as regional games, and the Arctic Winter Games. As well, the Committee suggests that the Department establish clear priorities for grants and other funding provided to sporting organizations.

Costs of Land Development and Leases

In the review of Business Plan, Committee Members had expressed some concern regarding the fact that leases for Commissioner's land, are $250 a year, no matter what the size the lease is, or its planned use. The department had mentioned that they intend to develop a strategy for recovering the actual costs of leasing the land, especially the administration costs. The Committee was pleased to hear that, as an interim measure, costs for lot rental are being increased to $600 a year, with a view to eventually raising the lease costs to a point that would cover the actual cost of development the land.

However, Committee Members are against any type of subsidy for land development, such as the subsidy program planned for low-income homeowner's lease costs. Committee Members, Mr. Chairman, still have significant concerns about the ability of non tax-based municipalities to take responsibility for land development. While the financial performance of hamlets is improving, far too many still have deficits and are qualified financial statements. Community empowerment should not proceed without an adequate framework being in place to ensure that communities are indeed ready to take on such important responsibilities.

The Committee has already told the Minister that larger hamlets should be encouraged to seek tax-based status, not discouraged. Forthcoming proposals which would allow non-tax based communities to borrow for land development should not proceed without removing barriers to the tax-based status.

So ended the lesson. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

---Applause.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1273

The Chair John Ningark

Thank you, Mr. Picco. Are there general comments or concerns on the report? Mr. Morin.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1273

Don Morin Tu Nedhe

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I would like to thank the Committee for its comments. We will make a coordinated response through FMBS. Thank you.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1273

The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Do we have further general comments or concerns on the report 9-13(3), Infrastructure Mid-Year Review Report? If not, do we agree that Committee Report 9-13(3) is concluded?

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1273

Members

Agreed.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1273

The Chair John Ningark

I will now rise and report progress to the Speaker.

---Applause.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1273

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Thank you. The House will come back to order. We are on Item 20, Report of the Committee of the Whole. Mr. Ningark.

Item 20: Report Of Committee Of The Whole
Item 20: Report Of Committee Of The Whole

Page 1273

Ningark

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, your committee has been considering Tabled Documents 90 and 91 and Committee Reports 7, 8, and 9, and would like to report progress, and that Tabled Document 90 and 91 and Committee Reports 7, 8, and 9 are concluded. Mr. Speaker, I move that the Report of the Committee of the Whole be concurred with. Thank you.

Item 20: Report Of Committee Of The Whole
Item 20: Report Of Committee Of The Whole

Page 1273

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Thank you. I will have a seconder. Mr. Morin. The motion is in order. To the motion. Question is being called. All those in favour. All those opposed. Motion is carried.

Item 21: Third Reading Of Bills
Item 21: Third Reading Of Bills

Page 1273

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Third reading of bills. Mr. Morin.

Third Reading of Bill 20: Supplementary Appropriation Act #1

Item 21: Third Reading Of Bills
Item 21: Third Reading Of Bills

Page 1273

Don Morin Tu Nedhe

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I move, seconded by the honourable Member for Baffin South, that Bill 20, Supplementary Appropriation Act #1 1996/97 be read for the third time.

Item 21: Third Reading Of Bills
Item 21: Third Reading Of Bills

Page 1273

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Thank you, for the record, could you repeat your...

Item 21: Third Reading Of Bills
Item 21: Third Reading Of Bills

Page 1273

Don Morin Tu Nedhe

Thank you, Mr. Speaker, that Bill 20, Supplementary Appropriation Act #1 1996/97 be read for the third time.

Item 21: Third Reading Of Bills
Item 21: Third Reading Of Bills

Page 1274

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Thank you, Mr. Morin, your motion is in order. To the motion? Questions being called, all those in favour? All those opposed? The motion is carried, Bill 20 has had third reading.

Third reading of bills, Mr. Ng.

Third Reading of Bill 18: Act to Amend the Public Trustee Act

Item 21: Third Reading Of Bills
Item 21: Third Reading Of Bills

Page 1274

Kelvin Ng Kitikmeot

Mr. Speaker, I move, seconded by the honourable Member for Tu Nedhe, that Bill 18, an Act to Amend the Public Trustee Act be read for the third time.

Item 21: Third Reading Of Bills
Item 21: Third Reading Of Bills

Page 1274

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Thank you, Mr. Ng, your motion is in order. To the motion? Questions being called, all those in favour? All those opposed? Your motion is carried. Bill 18 has had third reading. Third reading of bills, Mr. Ng.

Third Reading of Bill 21, Act to Amend the Access to Information and Protection of Privacy Act.

Item 21: Third Reading Of Bills
Item 21: Third Reading Of Bills

Page 1274

Kelvin Ng Kitikmeot

Mr. Speaker, I move, seconded by the honourable Member for Aivilik, that Bill 21, An Act to Amend the Access to Information and Protection of Privacy Act be read for the third time.

Item 21: Third Reading Of Bills
Item 21: Third Reading Of Bills

Page 1274

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Thank you. Mr. Ng your motion is in order. To the motion, questions being called, all those in favour? All those opposed. Motion is carried. Bill 21 has had third reading. Third reading of bills. Mr. Clerk, orders of the day.

Item 22: Orders Of The Day
Item 22: Orders Of The Day

Page 1274

Clerk Of The House Mr. David Hamilton

Mr. Speaker, meeting of the Nunavut Caucus immediately after adjournment. Meetings for tomorrow, at nine a.m. of the Ordinary Members Caucus. Orders of the day for Friday, October 18th:

1. Prayer

2. Ministers' Statements

3. Members' Statements

4. Returns to Oral Questions

5. Recognition of Visitors in the Gallery

6. Oral Questions

7. Written Questions

8. Returns to Written Questions

9. Replies to Opening Address

10. Petitions

11. Reports of Sanding and Special Committees

12. Reports of Committees on the Review of Bills

13. Tabling of Documents

14. Notices of Motion

15. Notices of Motion for First Reading of Bills

16. Motions

17. First Reading of Bills

- Bill 16

18. Second Reading of Bills

19. Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

- Table documents 1 and 83

- Committee report 10

20. Report of Committee of the Whole

21. Third Reading of Bills

22. Orders of the Day

Item 22: Orders Of The Day
Item 22: Orders Of The Day

Page 1274

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Thank you, Mr. Clerk, this House stands adjourned to Friday, October 18th at 10.00 a.m.

--ADJOURNMENT