This is page numbers 409 - 465 of the Hansard for the 13th Assembly, 3rd Session. The original version can be accessed on the Legislative Assembly's website or by contacting the Legislative Assembly Library. The word of the day was chairman.

Topics

Members Present

Hon. Jim Antoine, Hon. Goo Arlooktoo, Mr. Barnabas, Hon. Charles Dent, Mr. Enuaraq, Mr. Erasmus, Mr. Evaloarjuk, Hon. Samuel Gargan, Mrs. Groenewegen, Mr. Henry, Hon. Stephen Kakfwi, Mr. Krutko, Mr. Miltenberger, Hon. Don Morin, Hon. Kelvin Ng, Mr. Ningark, Mr. O'Brien, Mr. Ootes, Mr. Picco, Mr. Rabesca, Mr. Roland, Mr. Steen, Hon. Manitok Thompson, Hon. John Todd

--- Prayer

Item 1: Prayer
Item 1: Prayer

Page 409

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Thank you, Mrs. Groenewegen. Good afternoon. Orders of the day, item 2, Ministers' statements. Mr. Kakfwi.

Minister's Statement 55-13(3): International Travel Trade Representatives To Tour Yellowknife And Inuvik
Item 2: Ministers' Statements

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Stephen Kakfwi

Stephen Kakfwi Sahtu

I would like to inform the House that 24 travel agents and tour operators from England, Western Europe, Japan, Australia and New Zealand will spend one day and night in each of Yellowknife and Inuvik this week, on a tour facilitated by the Department of Economic Development and Tourism.

These international business representatives will tour and inspect the local sights, services and attractions in both communities and attend receptions to meet local tour operators and suppliers. The regional Economic Development and Tourism offices are organizing the tour and making final arrangements.

International travellers tend to book their vacations through agents and tour operators. It's important to increase awareness abroad of what the North has to offer as a quality travel destination. This is a productive and cost-effective means of marketing the North.

Partnerships which lead to increased business and tourism for NWT operators flow directly from tours like these. While less than 10 per cent of our visitors originate from outside the North American continent, this percentage will grow significantly over the next few years.

In addition to the Japanese, British and German markets showing strong interest in the North, Spain and Australia have been identified as emerging possible new markets.

This tour was offered to tourism business representatives attending Rendezvous Canada '96 in Edmonton as a postshow option. Rendezvous is an international travel trade show held each spring by the Canadian Tourism Commission to promote sales of Canadian tour packages to international buyers. Close to 60 registered delegates and groups expressed interest in the northern tour, although only 24 were selected because of space restrictions.

A number of industry partners are also contributing toward the success of this tour. NWT Air and Canadian North are the corporate sponsors for travel between Edmonton, Yellowknife and Inuvik. Hotels in both communities will be providing accommodation on a complimentary basis. A number of local tour operators and suppliers will also be providing their services free of charge.

On behalf of the Government of the Northwest Territories, I offer our best wishes to these potential international tourism partners and wish them a very good visit.

--- Applause

Minister's Statement 55-13(3): International Travel Trade Representatives To Tour Yellowknife And Inuvik
Item 2: Ministers' Statements

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The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Thank you, Mr. Kakfwi. Item 2, Ministers' statements. Mrs. Thompson.

Minister's Statement 56-13(3): Land Administration Program Graduates
Item 2: Ministers' Statements

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Manitok Thompson Aivilik

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I wish to congratulate the 16 students who have graduated successfully from the first community land administration certificate program.

A graduation ceremony was held for graduates last month in Iqaluit, where the first course was held. In particular, I wish to acknowledge the four students who were named to the honour roll for outstanding achievement: Geoff Kusugak, Rankin Inlet; Levi Killiktee, Grise Fiord; Allen Oniak, Kugluktuk; and, Jerry Panigoniak, Arviat.

Mr. Speaker, article 14 of the Nunavut land claims agreement provides that title to municipal lands will be transferred to the communities of Nunavut by July 9th of this year. With ownership of the land comes community responsibility to administer the land.

To assist communities with this responsibility, the Department of Municipal and Community Affairs, in collaboration with Nunavut Arctic College, developed the community land administration certificate program. The goal of this program is to provide a northern training opportunity for municipal land administration.

Funding for the program was made possible through the support of the Nunavut Implementation Panel, which consists of members representing Canada, the Government of the Northwest Territories and Nunavut Tunngavik Incorporated.

The first program began in 1995, at the Nunatta Campus of the college in Iqaluit, and 17 of the 25 Nunavut municipalities sponsored students in the program,

Mr. Speaker, the 16 graduates of this first program are now working in their communities, helping to manage and administer municipal land.

Mr. Speaker, when I spoke recently to Members about the department's land reform initiatives, I indicated that training of community staff was a key cornerstone of our plans. We can point to their first class of graduates as concrete evidence of our commitment to this training and one of the examples of our efforts to empower communities.

Our efforts to train community land administrators will continue. Earlier this year, a second group of students began the community land administration program. This course is being offered in Rankin Inlet and we have 13 students; eight from Nunavut and, for the first time, five from the Western Arctic. The department is discussing plans for a similar program in the Western Arctic with Aurora College.

In conclusion, Mr. Speaker, the first graduates of the community land administration certificate program are already making an important contribution by helping community councils take over authority for lands within their boundaries. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

--- Applause

Minister's Statement 56-13(3): Land Administration Program Graduates
Item 2: Ministers' Statements

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The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Thank you, Mrs. Thompson. Item 2, Ministers' statements. Item 3, Members' statements. Mr. Ningark.

Difficulties Experienced In Accessing Social Assistance Programs
Item 3: Members' Statements

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John Ningark Natilikmiot

(Translation) Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Many of us in the Northwest Territories make money. Many of us are provided with housing in our communities. We eat good, nutritious food. However, we have many concerns to deal with. If our pay level is going to be reduced, then we will have many problems. We have complained many times. We have expressed our concerns on TV and through the radio. We have also expressed our concerns through the newspapers. Many of us have expressed our concerns through forums such as meetings like this.

Mr. Speaker, the Inuit have their own concerns as well and have desires like us. They have relatives and children they have to take care of in their own communities. The Status of Women stated that women who have returned back to the Northwest Territories, as well as the band members in communities and Metis local members who have travelled outside of the Northwest Territories who apply for social assistance, have to wait for three months before they can get their application approved, even though they have children and need housing.

Mr. Speaker, may I have unanimous consent to conclude my Members' statement?

Difficulties Experienced In Accessing Social Assistance Programs
Item 3: Members' Statements

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The Speaker Samuel Gargan

The Member for Natilikmiot is seeking unanimous consent to conclude his statement. Are there any nays? There are no nays. Conclude your statement, Mr. Ningark.

Difficulties Experienced In Accessing Social Assistance Programs
Item 3: Members' Statements

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John Ningark Natilikmiot

Mr. Speaker, the NWT is a very generous community. Most of us, Mr. Speaker, are fortunate to have jobs, a roof over our heads and able to have three square meals a day. There are those of us who have moved out of the NWT and come back after three months or more to be denied the social assistance and can't find accommodation for their families. Mr. Speaker, I am speaking for people who live here all their lives and move back from the South: Inuit; band members; Metis.

Mr. Speaker, I have received information from the Yellowknife Women's Centre about five cases of aboriginal people who have lived down south for three months or more. Having come back to the NWT, they try to get social assistance from the system and are told they have to live here for at least three months or more in order to be eligible for social assistance. These people come back to their home land only to be denied the rights to feed their families and find a roof over their head for their families. Mr. Speaker, in this day and age where most of us fight over the spoils of this government, surely there should be enough money to go around for those people in need.

At the appropriate time, I will be asking the Minister of Social Services about the policy of this government in the area of social assistance programs. Thank you.

Difficulties Experienced In Accessing Social Assistance Programs
Item 3: Members' Statements

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The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Thank you, Mr. Ningark. Item 3, Members' statements. Mr. Miltenberger.

Unresolved Issues Regarding The Thebacha Election And Fraud Allegations
Item 3: Members' Statements

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Michael Miltenberger

Michael Miltenberger Thebacha

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Speaker, the Thebacha election allegations are the first tests we have had of what turns out to be a very fragile electoral system, given that the RCMP and Elections Canada reached gridlock within hours of receiving the complaints. It took seven months of fumbling before the RCMP provided a report on the allegations to the chief electoral officer and a full month later, the chief electoral officer has finally issued a non-answer. Mr. Speaker, the system has definitely failed its first test.

On May 1st, a letter was received from the chief electoral officer. The letter promised that Elections Canada would try to have an answer to the allegations by the middle of May. Mr. Speaker, yesterday, the chief electoral officer issued a press release. His decision, on investigation, is that he would not prosecute alleged infractions to the NWT Elections Act in the Thebacha election. He said: "I have concluded that any trial regarding the election in Thebacha would neither be in the best interest of justice or be of value in protecting the integrity of the electoral system." Mr. Speaker, after seven months and about $250,000, nothing has been answered.

With the chief electoral officer's release, he doesn't say whether the election was fairly run or not. He doesn't say whether the rules which govern our elections were broken or twisted. He doesn't even say whether there are loopholes which allow the system to be used or abused in ways that it shouldn't be.

Mr. Speaker, I strongly disagree with the chief electoral officer's statement regarding the integrity of the electoral system. How can there be any integrity in a system when the decision is made to leave an election permanently under a cloud? Everyone in Fort Smith, Mr. Speaker, has heard the rumours that the RCMP investigation turned up illegal election activities: proxy fraud; solicitation; forgery. What the press release seems to say is there are problems, but Elections Canada isn't going to bother pursuing them. We are no further ahead than we were six months ago. No one really knows what has happened.

To me, Mr. Speaker, enough is enough. It is time to put these allegations to rest. I will try to get a real answer on what happened in the Thebacha investigation. The standing committee is scheduled to review the chief electoral officer's report on the 1995 election.

Mr. Speaker, I seek unanimous consent to conclude my statement.

Unresolved Issues Regarding The Thebacha Election And Fraud Allegations
Item 3: Members' Statements

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The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Thank you. The Member for Thebacha is seeking unanimous consent to conclude his statement. Do we have any nays? There are no nays. Conclude your statement, Mr. Miltenberger.

Unresolved Issues Regarding The Thebacha Election And Fraud Allegations
Item 3: Members' Statements

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Michael Miltenberger

Michael Miltenberger Thebacha

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. The standing committee is scheduled to review the chief electoral officer's report on the 1995 election. I will be encouraging the committee to recommend we implement the CEO's 1991 suggestion to establish our own chief electoral officer and negotiate with the federal government for the appropriate funds to go with this office. To me it is totally unacceptable to be treated in such a condescending, cavalier manner as an afterthought by the chief electoral officer. To be governed in this area in a colonial fashion from Ottawa is something for days gone by, Mr. Speaker; we are beyond that.

in the meantime, I will be asking the Premier later today to consider a third-party review of this whole operation to ensure that the system never fails this badly again. As I see it, there are significant implications. If the system can be hijacked this easily by one disgruntled candidate who gets defeated, then when we come to Nunavut and we come to division and elections in the two territories, where we are going to be in a state of confusion anyway, our entire electoral system can be hijacked by a few disgruntled candidates who lose. Mr. Speaker, that isn't a risk we should be prepared to take. Thank you.

--- Applause

Unresolved Issues Regarding The Thebacha Election And Fraud Allegations
Item 3: Members' Statements

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The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Thank you, Mr. Miltenberger. Item 3, Members' statements. Mr. Henry.

Benefits To Be Realized By Creating A Single Office Of The Ombudsman
Item 3: Members' Statements

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Seamus Henry Yellowknife South

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. There are presently a number of legislative proposals before this Assembly which seek to make this government more accountable, open and responsible to the public we serve. The amendments proposed to the Legislative Assembly and Executive Council Act would allow for the appointments of a single Conflict of Interest Commissioner rather than the present panel of up to nine.

An important element of this proposed change is that of reducing the cost of investigations under the act, while providing experience and impartial handling of such reviews. The role of an Information and Privacy Commissioner, as proposed in the Access to Information and Protection of Privacy Act would ensure that the decisions not to provide requested information made of public bodies can be impartially reviewed.

Another proposal being examined would create the office of the Northwest Territories ombudsman. An ombudsman would investigate allegations brought against this government of bias, improper influence, abuse of power or merely incompetence, neglect, idleness or other causes amounting to maladministration.

The role of the Conflict of Interest Commissioner, Information and Privacy Commissioner and ombudsman each strive to raise the level of service provided by this government. Each of the three offices function independently of government, thereby ensuring impartial and unbiased review. The powers of investigation and the ability to conduct quasi-judicial functions are also shared by each office. Because of the many similarities of these three offices, the creation of a comprehensive ombudsman's office would fulfil each of these roles while reducing the cost of delivering these programs to a level which will not only justify but also encourage the creation of an ombudsman's office.

Mr. Speaker, the residents of the Northwest Territories are no different than the residents of other jurisdictions in Canada when it comes to their need for governments to address the grievances of its citizens. For the public, the ombudsman is a welcome device for ensuring that justice is done and the bureaucracies treat their clients fairly, promptly and respectfully. For bureaucracies, it is an additional failsafe check on their operations to ensure that any mistakes that have been...

Benefits To Be Realized By Creating A Single Office Of The Ombudsman
Item 3: Members' Statements

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The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Your time is up, Mr. Henry.

Benefits To Be Realized By Creating A Single Office Of The Ombudsman
Item 3: Members' Statements

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Seamus Henry Yellowknife South

Mr. Speaker, I consent unanimous consent to conclude my statement.

Benefits To Be Realized By Creating A Single Office Of The Ombudsman
Item 3: Members' Statements

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The Speaker Samuel Gargan

The Member for Yellowknife South is seeking unanimous consent ... Can we have some order in the House, please? The Member for Yellowknife South is seeking unanimous consent to conclude his statement. Do we have any nays? There are no nays. Conclude your statement, Mr. Henry.

Benefits To Be Realized By Creating A Single Office Of The Ombudsman
Item 3: Members' Statements

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Seamus Henry Yellowknife South

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I am content with that. For the public, the ombudsman is a welcome device for ensuring that justice is done and that bureaucracies treat their clients fairly, promptly and respectfully. I think that is worth repeating twice. For bureaucracies, it is an additional failsafe check on their operations to ensure that any mistakes that have not been spotted are eventually caught and rectified. It also serves to identify unintentional impacts of otherwise well-intentioned procedures.

The cost of bringing these three offices under the umbrella of an ombudsman office would certainly be far less than separate agencies. It has been suggested that the access to information and privacy legislation could cost as much as $3 million. An ombudsman's office fulfilling all three roles could be operational on an annual budget of much less. Clearly, this government must be cautious in any new spending. However, the creation of an ombudsman's office would send the undeniable message that this government is committed to change, away from the ivory tower politics towards the philosophy of accessibility and collaboration. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

--- Applause

Benefits To Be Realized By Creating A Single Office Of The Ombudsman
Item 3: Members' Statements

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The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Thank you, Mr. Henry. Item 3, Members' statements. Mr. Evaloarjuk.

Lack Of Scheduled Airline Services Between Repulse Bay, Igloolik And Pelly Bay
Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 412

Mark Evaloarjuk Amittuq

(Translation) Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, during my election campaign, one of the main concerns I heard many times from my constituents had to do with regularly-scheduled air transport, or lack of it, between the communities of Repulse Bay, Igloolik and Pelly Bay. For instance, if one wishes to travel to Repulse Bay from other communities, they have to stop in Rankin Inlet, Chesterfield and Coral Harbour or even Iqaluit on most schedules. Currently, there are three airlines that serve the Keewatin and Kitikmeot areas: Calm Air; Skyward; and, First Air. None of them make direct flights between Repulse Bay, Pelly Bay and Igloolik. The people I represent have strongly voiced to me their wish to have more direct flights provided between the communities I mentioned. These, traditionally, have been closely-connected communities through intermarriages and family lines.

The present schedule makes it difficult to travel back and forth among their relatives and friends. Mr. Speaker, I believe that if there were direct flights between these communities, they would be well used. This could provide healthy and much-needed competition, it would also save a lot of time, trouble and expense for my constituents.

I would suggest that flights could ideally be set up so that people could conveniently make visits and return home without having to make them travel a long way there and back. I will have more direct questions to the appropriate Minister later on in this regard. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Lack Of Scheduled Airline Services Between Repulse Bay, Igloolik And Pelly Bay
Item 3: Members' Statements

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The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Thank you, Mr. Evaloarjuk. Item 3, Members' statements. Mr. Barnabas.

Conflicting Development Initiatives On Northern Bathurst Island
Item 3: Members' Statements

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Levi Barnabas High Arctic

(Translation) Thank you, Mr. Speaker. (Translation ends) ... complex situation which is arising in my constituency. As I see it, there may be a possible conflict between Parks Canada's plan to consider a new national park at northern Bathurst Island and a strong expression of interest in those same lands for new ore reserves for Polaris Mine.

Parks Canada first expressed interest in the park in 1992. A study to look into whether a park should be feasible began in October 1995. The geological survey of Canada is also doing mineral and energy resource assistance of northern Bathurst Island. Many meetings have been held in Resolute Bay about these proposed developments. Many parties are getting involved: the federal departments; territorial departments; the Baffin Regional Inuit Association; and, Cominco, owner of Polaris Mine.

Lately, the Canadian Nature Federation and the World Wildlife Fund are getting involved. The community of Resolute Bay is in the ... (inaudible). It isn't surprising that there are differences of opinion within the community. There are some people, for example, who support the land withdrawal until the studies are completed. Others are concerned about how a new park might affect Polaris Mine. The president of Cominco has stated that Cominco would like to explore northern Bathurst Island because they want to find a new ore body before Polaris is out of ore.

The company says that a land withdrawal would prevent them from exploring the area. Natural Resources Canada is opposed to the land withdrawal as well. They would like to see this area of high mineral potential left open to exploration.

On the other hand, DIAND and Parks Canada support the land withdrawal. Recently, a position about land withdrawal has been referred to the Minister of DIAND, Natural Resources Canada and Canadian Heritage.

Mr. Speaker, I seek unanimous consent to conclude my statement.

Conflicting Development Initiatives On Northern Bathurst Island
Item 3: Members' Statements

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The Speaker Samuel Gargan

The Member for High Arctic is seeking unanimous consent to conclude his statement. Do we have any nays? There are no nays. Please conclude your statement, Mr. Barnabas.

Conflicting Development Initiatives On Northern Bathurst Island
Item 3: Members' Statements

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Levi Barnabas High Arctic

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. It seems like our government may not be involved in this important decision which will affect my community, Mr. Speaker. I understand that the Government of the Northwest Territories has so far not taken a position on these issues. I wish to say today that I will be relying on the Minister of the Department of Energy, Mines and Petroleum Resources, Renewable Resources and Economic Development and Tourism, Mr. Kakfwi, to help ensure that the right decision is taken on this important issue. I will say that I believe Polaris Mine is an important part of the economy of my region and the Northwest Territories, although I would very much like to see them employ more of my constituents. I would be

concerned if the mine were to close in a few years because they are denied access to new supplies of ore. On the other hand, I know there are concerns regarding calving grounds of Perry caribou at northern Bathurst Island and they must be protected.

Mr. Speaker, I hope, in working with Mr. Kakfwi, we can find a balanced, reasonable way of approaching these possible conflicts. I will have general comments and questions later today when we are dealing with replies to the budget. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Conflicting Development Initiatives On Northern Bathurst Island
Item 3: Members' Statements

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The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Thank you, Mr. Barnabas. Item 3, Members' statements. Mr. Rabesca.

Tribute To John Mackenzie Of Rae-edzo
Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 413

James Rabesca North Slave

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Recently in my home community of Rae-Edzo, we had a passing of a well liked, hard-working family man, Mr. John Mackenzie. This man was struck down in the prime of his life. He had a family to watch grow, a family who enjoyed his company and who had everything to look forward to. Unfortunately, like many others in the North, he had cancer. As many know, this is a terrible ordeal for families and friends and, in many cases, the comfort of others makes life seem better.

Today, I would like to thank the honourable Minister, Stephen Kakfwi, for caring about the needs of the family by attending the funeral and providing his condolences to the family. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Tribute To John Mackenzie Of Rae-edzo
Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 413

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Thank you, Mr. Rabesca. Item 3, Members' statements. Mr. Enuaraq.

Fisheries Opportunities In Central Baffin Region
Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 413

Tommy Enuaraq Baffin Central

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I would like to use two seconds of my time to say you are looking rather nice today, with the fancy decoration around your neck.

--- Applause

Mr. Speaker, I would like to bring Members of this House up to date on the applications made recently to the federal Minister of Fisheries and Oceans for the right to catch groundfish in all waters next to Baffin Island. Applications for licences to catch these fish, which are in our waters, were made by all Baffin communities, through the Qikiqtaaluk Wildlife Federation and, as well, the communities of Pangnirtung, Broughton Island and Qikiqtaaluk Corporation.

The Minister of Fisheries and Oceans gave a total of 1,500 tonnes to Baffin Island applicants and gave the largest amount of the fish quota to the Qikiqtaaluk Wildlife Board to distribute as they felt would be fair to the Baffin communities. I am pleased to report that the Qikiqtaaluk Wildlife Board met recently and they agreed on a fair way of dividing up the quota throughout the region. I understand the board is willing to look at ways of developing opportunities for certain interested communities, where it is appropriate, to become more involved in the fishery now that we have been allocated about 1,500 tonnes throughout the Baffin region.

I believe it will be possible and desirable that plans be developed so that the most possible benefits can flow to our communities. For example, I am very pleased that my own community of Broughton Island is being assisted to consider no less than six possible opportunities which could result in employment and other spin-off benefits from the fisheries in that community. One of the most interesting ideas they have come up with is to use the excellent harbour in Broughton Island to establish a public cold storage facility. Using surplus buildings from a nearby DEW Line site, this storage space would be very handy for vessels fishing in the area.

Mr. Speaker, I am seeking unanimous consent to continue with my statement.

Fisheries Opportunities In Central Baffin Region
Item 3: Members' Statements

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The Speaker Samuel Gargan

The Member for Baffin Central is seeking unanimous consent to conclude his statement. Are there any nays? There are no nays. Please proceed.

Fisheries Opportunities In Central Baffin Region
Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 413

Tommy Enuaraq Baffin Central

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. They could unload the fish at Broughton Island for shipment to the fish plant in Pangnirtung or shipment south. There might also be the possibility of resupplying the fishing vessels when they come in to unload their product. This opportunity could create desperately-needed local jobs for the constituents of Broughton Island. I also know there are plans to pursue additional Atlantic groundfish quotas from the Canadian competitive quota in area OA north of Cape Dyer. These waters lie alongside my constituency. If we could get a quota from those waters given to us, it would present a splendid opportunity for my home community of Clyde River to become involved.

I am encouraged that the Department of Fisheries and Oceans' officials have apparently been very encouraging about the idea of exploratory fishing being granted for these waters next to my riding.

Mr. Speaker, I wish to conclude by saying that I am very grateful that my constituents have the benefit of the full and active support of Baffin MLAs and the Honourable Stephen Kakfwi, Minister of Renewable Resources and Economic Development and Tourism, for these important initiatives to create jobs and economic opportunities for my constituents. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Fisheries Opportunities In Central Baffin Region
Item 3: Members' Statements

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The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Thank you, Mr. Enuaraq. I would like to thank you for your kind words. I was a little worried about whether I was dressed all right. Item 3, Members' statements. Mr. Krutko.

Need To Enhance Sporting Facilities In Mackenzie-delta Area
Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 413

David Krutko

David Krutko Mackenzie Delta

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. As you all know, in 1995, the Arctic Winter Games Committee made a decision to hold the Arctic Winter Games for 1998 in the city of Yellowknife. There was an application put forth by the town of Inuvik and the surrounding communities of the Mackenzie

Delta, but they were told they did not have adequate facilities to host such an event. The people in the Mackenzie-Delta -- who have been known to stage large events such as environmental conferences, the northern games and the Midway Lake Music Festival -- took great offence to this decision. The people of the Mackenzie-Delta felt their ability to host such an event was misjudged.

One of the reasons the committee gave with regard to not awarding the games to Inuvik was the lack of proper facilities. A large gymnasium in the second-largest community in the region would only enhance Inuvik's ability to host the next Arctic Winter Games after division.

This is one of the questions I'll be raising later on with the appropriate Minister: What is the possibility of establishing a larger gymnasium in the community of Fort McPherson -they are presently constructing a new facility -- so that the ability of the Mackenzie-Delta region to host the next Arctic Winter Games will not be jeopardized because of not having the facilities? Thank you.

Need To Enhance Sporting Facilities In Mackenzie-delta Area
Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 414

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Thank you, Mr. Krutko. Item 3, Members' statements. Mr. Picco.

Unsolicited And Unsigned Messages And Complaints
Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 414

Edward Picco Iqaluit

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Over the past several weeks, I have been given unsolicited advice and supposed inside information on a range of different items. Mr. Speaker, I appreciate the calls I receive from the different areas of the NWT but I want to say, for the record, that, unless the letters are signed and phone messages et cetera have a contact number of the person making said allegation or providing the unsolicited advice, there is little I can do with this information.

---Applause

Mr. Speaker, we live in a democracy. Canada and the NWT are not communists, fascists, totalitarians or dictatorships. It is not a place where we partake in witch hunts or vendettas. I will act on information that is signed, but because we don't have an ombudsman's office or a similar mechanism and because we don't have party politics, it becomes very difficult in handling complaints.

For the record, I take this role as a Member of the Legislative Assembly of the NWT very seriously. Integrity, Mr. Speaker, has to be first and foremost in our dealings within the role that we participate. I will continue to represent my constituents to the best of my ability and I appreciate any signed and, as aforementioned, personally identified messages received. I will act on them. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

--- Applause

Unsolicited And Unsigned Messages And Complaints
Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 414

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Thank you, Mr. Picco. Item 3, Members' statements. Mr. Ootes.

Tribute To Hon. Justice Mark De Weerdt On Retirement
Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 414

Jake Ootes

Jake Ootes Yellowknife Centre

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Today I would like to pay tribute to a most distinguished citizen in the Northwest Territories, the Honourable Mr. Justice Mark de Weerdt. Justice de Weerdt recently retired from the position of Senior Judge of the Supreme Court of the Northwest Territories, a position he held for 15 years. Justice de Weerdt is much respected in court circles. He and his wife, Anne, are admired as fine citizens of the Northwest Territories.

His history in the Northwest Territories stretches back several decades. He is the third judge of the Supreme Court of the NWT and he succeeded two other great northern judges: Judge Jack Sissons, the first judge to serve the NWT and known as "the flying judge of the North;" and, William Morrow. History will remember these three judges as the pioneers of the northern justice system.

In the 1950s and 1960s, Justice de Weerdt served as a lawyer who argued cases in courts all across the North. He experienced many of the challenges that were present in the fledgling days when the NWT court system was finding its feet. This required him to sometimes argue for both the Crown and the defence in the same case. He handled, with much sympathy, the many misunderstandings caused by differences in culture. Consequently, he earned great respect in the communities.

Justice de Weerdt was always wise and ready to give sage advice on all legal matters. As well as performing his judicial duties, he was often asked for advice and opinions on many legal matters because he had a reputation for giving sound and comprehensive points of view. He was very concerned that a proper justice system designed especially for this diverse Territory be developed and he helped contribute to this in many ways. He understood that the Canadian system of justice was alien to the life of many aboriginal groups. He recognized that they were moving inordinately towards a western 20th-century lifestyle which encompasses the federal justice system.

He always made an effort to explain and justify the workings of this justice system to the aboriginal people of the Northwest Territories.

Mr. Speaker, I seek unanimous consent to conclude my statement.

Tribute To Hon. Justice Mark De Weerdt On Retirement
Item 3: Members' Statements

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The Speaker Samuel Gargan

The Member for Yellowknife Centre is seeking unanimous consent to conclude his statement. Do we have any nays? There are no nays. Conclude your statement, Mr. Ootes.

Tribute To Hon. Justice Mark De Weerdt On Retirement
Item 3: Members' Statements

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Jake Ootes

Jake Ootes Yellowknife Centre

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. He advocated for federally-funded legal aid, which was established in 1970. He believed in freedom of the press and coached reporters in how to give unbiased and accurate reports of court hearings. He believed in the flexibility of sentencing, including using sentencing circles.

Even though Justice de Weerdt would be justified in taking a well-deserved retirement, he is leaving us for yet another career; Senior Judge of the Supreme Court of British Columbia. We wish him all the best and say thank you for all the help, support and good counsel he has provided over his long career in the Northwest Territories.

--- Applause

Tribute To Hon. Justice Mark De Weerdt On Retirement
Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 415

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Thank you, Mr. Ootes. Item 3, Members' statements. Mrs. Groenewegen.

Absence From The House
Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 415

Jane Groenewegen

Jane Groenewegen Hay River

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I just wanted to advise the other Members of the Assembly that I won't be in the Assembly tomorrow. I am returning to Hay River to attend the graduation at the Diamond Jenness Secondary School. I feel it is very important to honour grade 12 graduates and I regret to miss the House, but that is the reason for my absence tomorrow. Thank you.

Absence From The House
Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 415

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Thank you. Item 3, Members' statements. Mr. O'Brien.

Absence From The House
Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 415

Kevin O'Brien Kivallivik

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I would also like to advise the House that I will be absent from the House tomorrow. I will be attending the high school graduation of the students of Baker Lake. Thank you.

Absence From The House
Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 415

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Thank you. Item 3, Members' statements. Item 4, returns to oral questions. Mr. Todd.

Further Return To Question 215-13(3): Rates Of Pay For Student Summer Employment
Item 4: Returns To Oral Questions
Item 4: Returns To Oral Questions

Page 415

John Todd Keewatin Central

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I have a return to an oral question asked by Mr. Ootes on May 14th regarding rates of pay for student summer employment.

The GNWT is only able to institute a new student summer wage rate through the collective bargaining process with the union. As I mentioned the other day, we did, in fact, put forth a proposal for new student rates with the union in our most recent round of collective bargaining. However, agreement on this issue was not reached.

The GNWT does not have a specific student hiring program. Students access jobs through the casual employment program. Although there is no centralized database regarding the number of potential student job opportunities, the Personnel Secretariat has informed us that approximately 72 students have been hired in headquarters as of May 14, 1996. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Further Return To Question 215-13(3): Rates Of Pay For Student Summer Employment
Item 4: Returns To Oral Questions
Item 4: Returns To Oral Questions

Page 415

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Thank you. Item 4, returns to oral questions. Mr. Arlooktoo.

Further Return To Question 80-13(3): Transfer Of Staff Housing To The Nwt Housing Corporation
Item 4: Returns To Oral Questions
Item 4: Returns To Oral Questions

Page 415

Goo Arlooktoo Baffin South

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I have a return to an oral question asked by Mr. Picco on March 27th, regarding the transfer of staff housing to the NWT Housing Corporation.

In June 1995, PW&S transferred the administration of the staff housing inventory, including lease administration for leased units and for unit allocations, to the Housing Corporation. On April 1, 1996, the NWT Housing Corporation assumed maintenance responsibilities which will be carried out in most cases by local housing organizations. In some communities, the maintenance function will be contracted out.

The Member is correct in saying that most LHOs will now manage these properties. However, the Financial Management Board Secretariat retains the policy and program approval responsibilities over the GNWT's staff housing program. In effect, the corporation and the LHOs are acting as a contractor to the FMBS, to deliver staff housing based upon FMBS's guidelines and policies. Therefore, the budget for this program will be kept separate from the social housing budget, and the by-laws and guidelines governing social housing program delivery will not apply to staff housing.

Further Return To Question 80-13(3): Transfer Of Staff Housing To The Nwt Housing Corporation
Item 4: Returns To Oral Questions
Item 4: Returns To Oral Questions

Page 415

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Thank you. Item 4, returns to oral questions. Mrs. Thompson.

Return To Question 194-13(3): GNWT Position On Transfers Of Program And Facilities Of Municipalities
Item 4: Returns To Oral Questions
Item 4: Returns To Oral Questions

Page 415

Manitok Thompson Aivilik

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I have a return to an oral question asked by Mrs. Groenewegen on May 8, 1996, on the GNWT position on transfers of program and facilities to municipalities.

The Member is correct in her statement that, under the community transfer process, the government agreed to work with municipal councils, band councils, community corporations and Metis locals in whatever way the community decided it wanted to approach transfers.

Under the community empowerment initiative, we will be talking to communities about how they might decide the kind of governing structure which best suits their particular and unique needs.

The government prefers to deal with a single community governing or administrative organization which is accountable to all residents of the community. In Nunavut communities, this will, in all probability, be the municipal government.

In the West, community governance is a little more complicated. It is the community residents, not the central government, that must decide how the community can best be served. If it is a community's wish that the government enter into transfer arrangements directly with a community council, band council, community corporation or Metis local; the government will consider ways to do so. It will be the challenge of community residents and their governing organizations to develop community consensus on these matters. The government can then respond. Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I have another one.

Return To Question 194-13(3): GNWT Position On Transfers Of Program And Facilities Of Municipalities
Item 4: Returns To Oral Questions
Item 4: Returns To Oral Questions

Page 416

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Continue.

Further Return To Question 209-13(3): Community Funding For 1996-97
Item 4: Returns To Oral Questions
Item 4: Returns To Oral Questions

Page 416

Manitok Thompson Aivilik

I have a return to oral question asked by Mr. Roland on May 13, 1996, on community funding for 1996-97.

'The Member asked what reductions had taken place in taxation areas. I believe he was referring to municipal taxation areas, meaning the city, towns and villages.

There has been no reduction to the equalization grants budgets for tax-based communities. These communities will be affected, as all other communities, by program reductions such as the reform of the water and sewage services subsidy and capital budget reductions. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Further Return To Question 209-13(3): Community Funding For 1996-97
Item 4: Returns To Oral Questions
Item 4: Returns To Oral Questions

Page 416

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Thank you. Item 4, returns to oral questions. Mr. Morin.

Return To Question 149-13(3): Administration Of Staff Appeals
Item 4: Returns To Oral Questions
Item 4: Returns To Oral Questions

Page 416

Don Morin Tu Nedhe

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I have a return to an oral question asked by Mr. Miltenberger on May 3, 1996, regarding administration of staff appeals.

On May 3, 1996, staffing authority was delegated to the following departments: Health and Social Services; Justice; Transportation; Executive; Financial Management Board Secretariat; Education, Culture and Employment; Municipal and Community Affairs; Legislative Assembly, and, Public Works and Services.

The remaining departments will receive staffing authority once their staff have been trained. Thank you.

Return To Question 149-13(3): Administration Of Staff Appeals
Item 4: Returns To Oral Questions
Item 4: Returns To Oral Questions

Page 416

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Thank you. Item 5, recognition of visitors in the gallery. Mr. Todd.

Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery
Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Page 416

John Todd Keewatin Central

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I very rarely do this, but I have a unique opportunity this afternoon to introduce to everyone in this House -- my favourite CBC reporter -- Ian Hanna's parents.

--- Applause

Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery
Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Page 416

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Thank you. Item 5, recognition of visitors in the gallery. Mr. Picco.

Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery
Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Page 416

Edward Picco Iqaluit

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I am very pleased to welcome to the gallery today, John Parker, the superintendent of Economic Development and Tourism for the Baffin; and Dave Monteith, a long-time Baffin resident, supervisor for parks for Economic Development and Tourism.

--- Applause

Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery
Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Page 416

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Item 5, recognition of visitors in the gallery. Item 6, oral questions. Mr. O'Brien.

Question 236-13(3): Trades Representatives Touring Western Arctic
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 416

Kevin O'Brien Kivallivik

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, my question is directed to the Minister of ED&T. It relates to the Minister's statement today regarding the western tour of the 24 international trade representatives. Mr. Speaker, I note that the tour operators are visiting western communities only. Can the Minister advise this House why no communities in Nunavut are involved in this tour? After all, we in Nunavut also have a need to access such high visibility. Thank you.

Question 236-13(3): Trades Representatives Touring Western Arctic
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 416

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Thank you. Minister of Economic Development and Tourism, Mr. Kakfwi.

Return To Question 236-13(3): Trades Representatives Touring Western Arctic
Question 236-13(3): Trades Representatives Touring Western Arctic
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 416

Stephen Kakfwi

Stephen Kakfwi Sahtu

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I believe the reason is that the operators are all gathered in the city of Edmonton and the simplest, most convenient travel route for them in the time we were prepared to devote to this tour was to go north to Yellowknife and Inuvik. That is the reason. The conference and trade show happens every year. They have been going on for the last 20 years and have moved from places like Montreal, Toronto, Winnipeg, Calgary, Edmonton and Vancouver. I believe when they return to eastern locations, then it becomes much easier and more convenient to set up -- depending on the interest of the trade show operators and representatives -- an opportunity to swing into the Keewatin and also into the Baffin. Thank you.

Return To Question 236-13(3): Trades Representatives Touring Western Arctic
Question 236-13(3): Trades Representatives Touring Western Arctic
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 416

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Thank you. Supplementary, Mr. O'Brien.

Supplementary To Question 236-13(3): Trades Representatives Touring Western Arctic
Question 236-13(3): Trades Representatives Touring Western Arctic
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 416

Kevin O'Brien Kivallivik

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, can the Minister confirm where this show will originate next year?

Supplementary To Question 236-13(3): Trades Representatives Touring Western Arctic
Question 236-13(3): Trades Representatives Touring Western Arctic
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 416

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Mr. Kakfwi.

Further Return To Question 236-13(3): Trades Representatives Touring Western Arctic
Question 236-13(3): Trades Representatives Touring Western Arctic
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 417

Stephen Kakfwi

Stephen Kakfwi Sahtu

Mr. Speaker, if someone told me yesterday, I have already forgotten. I would be interested in sharing that with the Members and also give them a briefing. I just got a sign, I believe it is in Vancouver. Having said that, I would be very interested in having more Members of the Legislature attend these conferences and trade shows because that is an opportunity for us, as elected representatives and Ministers of government, to appreciate how we can help our tourism operators and outfitters to meet the demands that are growing internationally and across North America for the products and services we can provide in the NWT. We need to find ways to market the whole of the Canadian Arctic and not just our specific regions. Many of the operators found that they spent a great deal of time answering generic questions about the Arctic and very little time describing the kinds of services and products they were advancing.

So not a lot of work was done, but things look very positive and I was very pleased to be part of that experience. Thank you.

Further Return To Question 236-13(3): Trades Representatives Touring Western Arctic
Question 236-13(3): Trades Representatives Touring Western Arctic
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 417

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Thank you. Supplementary, Mr. O'Brien.

Item 6, oral questions.

Supplementary To Question 236-13(3): Trades Representatives Touring Western Arctic
Question 236-13(3): Trades Representatives Touring Western Arctic
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 417

Kevin O'Brien Kivallivik

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Would the Minister agree to try to encourage that the East would be involved in this show next year? Thank you.

Supplementary To Question 236-13(3): Trades Representatives Touring Western Arctic
Question 236-13(3): Trades Representatives Touring Western Arctic
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 417

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Mr. Kakfwi.

Further Return To Question 236-13(3): Trades Representatives Touring Western Arctic
Question 236-13(3): Trades Representatives Touring Western Arctic
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 417

Stephen Kakfwi

Stephen Kakfwi Sahtu

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, the Arctic has some very unique elements that are of great interest to people around the world. For instance, this is one of the few jurisdictions where you can actually see wildlife in its still pristine state, as is, without having to go to international parks. The land is still very much the way it has been for thousands of years. The Canadian Arctic has always been exemplified by pictures of polar bears, snow, ice and Inuit. There is a lot of tourism interest in the Eastern Arctic and there is also a great deal of interest from the tourism operators and outfitters from Nunavut and we will always be attending these conferences. Thank you.

Further Return To Question 236-13(3): Trades Representatives Touring Western Arctic
Question 236-13(3): Trades Representatives Touring Western Arctic
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 417

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Thank you. Item 6, oral questions. Mr. Ningark.

Question 237-13(3): Eligibility Requirements For Social Assistance In Nwt
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 417

John Ningark Natilikmiot

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. As I indicated in my Member's statement regarding the residents of the NWT travelling to southern jurisdictions and coming back to the NWT after three months and being unable to find any jobs or income and being denied social assistance by the system, I didn't realize that my colleague asked the same question yesterday. I was out of the House at an interview.

On page 857 of the unedited Hansard, the Minister of Education, Culture and Communications has a response: "The department is very careful to ensure that nobody is going hungry or being forced to sleep on the street. The full services of the department are available only to residents.'

Question 237-13(3): Eligibility Requirements For Social Assistance In Nwt
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 417

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Thank you. Minister of Education, Culture and Employment, Mr. Dent.

Return To Question 237-13(3): Eligibility Requirements For Social Assistance In Nwt
Question 237-13(3): Eligibility Requirements For Social Assistance In Nwt
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 417

Charles Dent

Charles Dent Yellowknife Frame Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, the department's resources are made available to all people, no matter where they were born or where they came from. The policy of the department is to provide the full range of services to residents. Until a person has established residence in the Northwest Territories, we have a transient policy which entitles people to receive limited assistance in obtaining food and shelter. Mr. Speaker, we don't deny assistance to new residents, but we do expect that people would establish residence by either securing employment, establishing a residence or by being employed in the NWT for three months. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Return To Question 237-13(3): Eligibility Requirements For Social Assistance In Nwt
Question 237-13(3): Eligibility Requirements For Social Assistance In Nwt
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 417

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Thank you. Supplementary, Mr. Ningark.

Supplementary To Question 237-13(3): Eligibility Requirements For Social Assistance In Nwt
Question 237-13(3): Eligibility Requirements For Social Assistance In Nwt
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 417

John Ningark Natilikmiot

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I have a document here from the Yellowknife Women's Centre regarding five complaints coming from individuals who came from outside of the jurisdiction who have lived here a long time, come back and been denied social assistance until they have lived here for three months. Mr. Speaker, are we denying people help when they need social assistance? Why are we denying these people assistance? Thank you.

Supplementary To Question 237-13(3): Eligibility Requirements For Social Assistance In Nwt
Question 237-13(3): Eligibility Requirements For Social Assistance In Nwt
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 417

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Mr. Dent.

Further Return To Question 237-13(3): Eligibility Requirements For Social Assistance In Nwt
Question 237-13(3): Eligibility Requirements For Social Assistance In Nwt
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 417

Charles Dent

Charles Dent Yellowknife Frame Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, we aren't denying assistance. I am not aware of the individual circumstances outlined in the letter. I would have to have a specific example of what had happened. In any case, where a person goes to apply for social assistance,

if they aren't happy with the response, they are entitled to appeal and have that appeal heard as to whether or not they should have received assistance.

Let me take Yellowknife, for example. A mother of three who arrived in Yellowknife and was staying with relatives would be provided with cash assistance to purchase food and other basic living necessities; or, a single employable client would be referred to the Salvation Army emergency shelter, where food and residence are provided on a contract basis between the Salvation Army and Education, Culture and Employment.

So we do provide assistance, but it is limited until we know that the people have established residence here. That is because they have established residence somewhere else. Until we know for sure that they are residents of the Northwest Territories, the full range of services aren't provided to them. We do make sure that the basics are provided. Thank you, Mr. Speaker,

Further Return To Question 237-13(3): Eligibility Requirements For Social Assistance In Nwt
Question 237-13(3): Eligibility Requirements For Social Assistance In Nwt
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 418

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Thank you. Supplementary, Mr. Ningark.

Supplementary To Question 237-13(3): Eligibility Requirements For Social Assistance In Nwt
Question 237-13(3): Eligibility Requirements For Social Assistance In Nwt
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 418

John Ningark Natilikmiot

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Perhaps the Minister could direct his staff to look into the allegation of denial of social assistance, to ensure that the rights of these individuals weren't infringed upon. Perhaps he could direct his staff to communicate with the Yellowknife Women's Centre. Thank you.

Supplementary To Question 237-13(3): Eligibility Requirements For Social Assistance In Nwt
Question 237-13(3): Eligibility Requirements For Social Assistance In Nwt
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 418

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Thank you. Mr. Dent.

Further Return To Question 237-13(3): Eligibility Requirements For Social Assistance In Nwt
Question 237-13(3): Eligibility Requirements For Social Assistance In Nwt
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 418

Charles Dent

Charles Dent Yellowknife Frame Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I would be happy to do that. Thank you.

Further Return To Question 237-13(3): Eligibility Requirements For Social Assistance In Nwt
Question 237-13(3): Eligibility Requirements For Social Assistance In Nwt
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 418

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Thank you. Item 6, oral questions. Mr. Evaloarjuk.

Question 238-13(3): Improvements To Airline Flights For Igloolik, Pelly Bay And Repulse Bay
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 418

Mark Evaloarjuk Amittuq

(Translation) Thank you, Mr. Speaker. My question is directed to the Minister of Transportation. The Minister has heard my Member's statement today. I would like to ask him if he could recommend to me how I should go about seeking improvements for airline flights between the traditionally-linked communities of Repulse Bay, Pelly Bay and Igloolik. Thank you.

Question 238-13(3): Improvements To Airline Flights For Igloolik, Pelly Bay And Repulse Bay
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 418

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Minister of Transportation, Mr. Antoine.

Return To Question 238-13(3): Improvements To Airline Flights For Igloolik, Pelly Bay And Repulse Bay
Question 238-13(3): Improvements To Airline Flights For Igloolik, Pelly Bay And Repulse Bay
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 418

Jim Antoine Nahendeh

Mahsi, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I would like to inform the honourable Member that this government is not directly involved, at any level, with the scheduling of routes and flights of air carriers. The air carriers themselves -- in this case, Calm Air, First Air and Skyward -deliver air services on a commercial basis. If the traffic warrants it and passengers and freight on a particular route is enough to pay for services, the carriers are likely to offer that service in this area. In this case, the carriers may not know that a potential for a new market exists in this particular area.

The proposed Repulse Bay, Pelly Bay and Igloolik route is interesting because the three communities are located in three different regions. I would like to recommend that the three municipalities inform the different air carriers and see if their carrier is interested in introducing this service. The important point is that the carriers and passengers should start talking to one another about this service they want. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Return To Question 238-13(3): Improvements To Airline Flights For Igloolik, Pelly Bay And Repulse Bay
Question 238-13(3): Improvements To Airline Flights For Igloolik, Pelly Bay And Repulse Bay
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 418

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Thank you. Supplementary, Mr. Evaloarjuk.

Supplementary To Question 238-13(3): Improvements To Airline Flights For Igloolik, Pelly Bay And Repulse Bay
Question 238-13(3): Improvements To Airline Flights For Igloolik, Pelly Bay And Repulse Bay
Item 6: Oral Questions

May 15th, 1996

Page 418

Mark Evaloarjuk Amittuq

(Translation) Can I count on the support of the honourable Minister and his officials in pursuing my concern?

Supplementary To Question 238-13(3): Improvements To Airline Flights For Igloolik, Pelly Bay And Repulse Bay
Question 238-13(3): Improvements To Airline Flights For Igloolik, Pelly Bay And Repulse Bay
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 418

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Mr. Antoine.

Further Return To Question 238-13(3): Improvements To Airline Flights For Igloolik, Pelly Bay And Repulse Bay
Question 238-13(3): Improvements To Airline Flights For Igloolik, Pelly Bay And Repulse Bay
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 418

Jim Antoine Nahendeh

Yes, the Department of Transportation and its regional staff, Mr. Speaker, could certainly help by letting the municipalities know the regional carriers might offer the service or to let the regional carriers know of the three communities interested in the route of service. Thank you.

Further Return To Question 238-13(3): Improvements To Airline Flights For Igloolik, Pelly Bay And Repulse Bay
Question 238-13(3): Improvements To Airline Flights For Igloolik, Pelly Bay And Repulse Bay
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 418

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Thank you. Item 6, oral questions. Supplementary, Mr. Evaloarjuk.

Supplementary To Question 238-13(3): Improvements To Airline Flights For Igloolik, Pelly Bay And Repulse Bay
Question 238-13(3): Improvements To Airline Flights For Igloolik, Pelly Bay And Repulse Bay
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 418

Mark Evaloarjuk Amittuq

(Translation) Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Would it be possible to assess the feasibility of having the airlines provide direct links between Repulse Bay, Igloolik and Pelly Bay?

Supplementary To Question 238-13(3): Improvements To Airline Flights For Igloolik, Pelly Bay And Repulse Bay
Question 238-13(3): Improvements To Airline Flights For Igloolik, Pelly Bay And Repulse Bay
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 418

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Mr. Antoine.

Further Return To Question 238-13(3): Improvements To Airline Flights For Igloolik, Pelly Bay And Repulse Bay
Question 238-13(3): Improvements To Airline Flights For Igloolik, Pelly Bay And Repulse Bay
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 418

Jim Antoine Nahendeh

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, this government is not involved in scheduling flights, and directing the routes is a commercial venture. The Department of Transportation is willing to work with the three communities in contacting the three airlines to see if we could get some dialogue going. Perhaps, in that way, we could generate some discussion and perhaps develop some sort of a route in that area. Thank you.

Further Return To Question 238-13(3): Improvements To Airline Flights For Igloolik, Pelly Bay And Repulse Bay
Question 238-13(3): Improvements To Airline Flights For Igloolik, Pelly Bay And Repulse Bay
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 419

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Thank you. I would like to recognize a former Member and a former federal MP, Mr. Dave Nickerson.

--- Applause

Welcome to the Assembly. Item 6, oral questions. Mr. Roland.

Question 239-13(3): Status Of Federal Private Member's Bill C-222
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 419

Floyd Roland

Floyd Roland Inuvik

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. A week ago today, I travelled to Ottawa to make a presentation on behalf of the Minister of Safety and Public Services. I would like to ask the Minister if he's heard any results of our presentation, or results from the Standing Committee on Health. Thank you.

Question 239-13(3): Status Of Federal Private Member's Bill C-222
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 419

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

The Minister responsible for Safety and Public Services, Mr. Antoine.

Return To Question 239-13(3): Status Of Federal Private Member's Bill C-222
Question 239-13(3): Status Of Federal Private Member's Bill C-222
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 419

Jim Antoine Nahendeh

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I would like to thank the honourable Member for Inuvik for representing the department in their presentation to the subcommittee on Health in Ottawa, on our behalf.

Mr. Speaker, I've been informed by the department that the private Member's Bill C-222 would require health warning labels be placed on all alcohol beverage containers sold in Canada. This particular bill has been moved back from the subcommittee into the Standing Committee on Health. The subcommittee has withdrawn this bill for consideration by the subcommittee, and has further recommended that instead the standing committee consider both this bill and another bigger bill which they are contemplating.

They would like to consider the bill in the context of its study of Canada's drug policy, with particular attention to the effective means of increasing awareness of fetal alcohol syndrome. As a result of this motion, Bill C-222 is buried deep in another process and there will be no vote at the committee stage. With the number of issues that this committee, on the study of drug policy, will cover, most of the observers consider that this subcommittee motion is a way of not dealing with the bill, without ever having the committee Members or MPs taking a position on it. Thank you.

Return To Question 239-13(3): Status Of Federal Private Member's Bill C-222
Question 239-13(3): Status Of Federal Private Member's Bill C-222
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 419

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Thank you. Item 6, oral questions. Supplementary, Mr. Roland.

Supplementary To Question 239-13(3): Status Of Federal Private Member's Bill C-222
Question 239-13(3): Status Of Federal Private Member's Bill C-222
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 419

Floyd Roland

Floyd Roland Inuvik

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Seeing as this is an important issue for the Territories and we are continuing to do our own labelling program, will the Minister and his department continue to seek ways of influencing or passing the message on to the standing committee that we believe this is an important issue; the whole process regarding the awareness of alcohol?

Supplementary To Question 239-13(3): Status Of Federal Private Member's Bill C-222
Question 239-13(3): Status Of Federal Private Member's Bill C-222
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 419

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Mr. Antoine.

Further Return To Question 239-13(3): Status Of Federal Private Member's Bill C-222
Question 239-13(3): Status Of Federal Private Member's Bill C-222
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 419

Jim Antoine Nahendeh

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Cabinet is supportive of the initiative of putting health warning labels on the liquor containers in the Northwest Territories and will continue to do so. We've also taken the position to support the private Member's Bill C-222. The bill will not be reported back to the House of Commons prior to the summer recess. Instead, it will be considered as part of a much larger study that the standing committee has been planning to undertake regarding Canada's drug policy. They are developing a plan on how to deal with it.

To date, there's no plan, per se, on how the committee is going to carry out its comprehensive review of the national drug policy. It's possible the committee may agree to travel, and it could be invited to hearings in different parts of the country, including the Northwest Territories. This would provide an opportunity for us, the Government of the Northwest Territories, to provide additional input; not only about warning labels, but other aspects of drug and alcohol problems and programs in the Northwest Territories.

Upon learning of these developments, as the Minister of Safety and Public Services, I have written to the Minister of Health to initiate discussion regarding how we can best provide input into this process. Thank you.

Further Return To Question 239-13(3): Status Of Federal Private Member's Bill C-222
Question 239-13(3): Status Of Federal Private Member's Bill C-222
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 419

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Item 6, oral questions. Mr. Roland, supplementary.

Supplementary To Question 239-13(3): Status Of Federal Private Member's Bill C-222
Question 239-13(3): Status Of Federal Private Member's Bill C-222
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 419

Floyd Roland

Floyd Roland Inuvik

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. During the presentation, we were made aware of other groups making different presentations to the subcommittee. Is the Minister aware that the Winery Association wanted to do their own labelling regarding the improvement of health by drinking a limited amount of wine per day?

Supplementary To Question 239-13(3): Status Of Federal Private Member's Bill C-222
Question 239-13(3): Status Of Federal Private Member's Bill C-222
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 419

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Mr. Antoine.

Further Return To Question 239-13(3): Status Of Federal Private Member's Bill C-222
Question 239-13(3): Status Of Federal Private Member's Bill C-222
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 419

Jim Antoine Nahendeh

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. During the whole debate on the private Member's bill, I understand there"s a lot of opposition to placing health warning labels on containers by the liquor industry. It's a massive, powerful lobby and they've done their work well. In Ottawa, they have a lot of misinformation and different types of information, including what the honourable Member has mentioned regarding consuming a small amount of alcohol is good for you. This is one of the studies which has just come out. The results of the study are very questionable. This is an example of the type of lobbying which is being done in opposition to this private Member's bill. Thank you.

Further Return To Question 239-13(3): Status Of Federal Private Member's Bill C-222
Question 239-13(3): Status Of Federal Private Member's Bill C-222
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 419

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Thank you. Item 6, oral questions. Mr. Erasmus. Mr. Miltenberger.

Question 240-13(3): Review Of Thebacha Election Process
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 420

Michael Miltenberger

Michael Miltenberger Thebacha

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. My question is to the Premier. In light of the serious shortcomings brought to light by the Thebacha election, the allegations and the less-than-adroit handling of it by the RCMP and the Chief Electoral Officer's office, would the Premier consider a third party review of this system, once it's finally through the courts and dealt with, to ensure that this kind of situation doesn't occur again, and that we're ready for the next election? Hopefully, this kind of thing will be avoided and expense spared. Thank you.

Question 240-13(3): Review Of Thebacha Election Process
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 420

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

I would like to remind the Member the process is still in the courts. This Assembly cannot deal with an issue which is still before the courts. I must rule your question out of order.

--- Ruled Out of Order

Item 6, oral questions. Mr. Rabesca.

Question 241-13(3): Review Of Business Incentive Policy
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 420

James Rabesca North Slave

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I would like to congratulate Mr. Steen for his attempt yesterday to suspend applications for the business incentive policy. However, since I called earlier this week for a review of this and other policies, I would rather think we could update and fine tune this policy. We may be able to achieve a better result. I believe this policy can still be used but we must get rid of the abuse which has taken place with this policy.

If we were to concentrate our efforts on the smaller communities and the potential growth that can be achieved in these communities, I think the policy could work better. One idea might be to localize the policy. If a community, through its local contractors, is allowed under the BIP a chance to bid on the contract without the worry of outside contractors under cutting prices. This would encourage growth in the community and, at the same time, benefit local business and possibly government by creating more local jobs, which would mean a reduction in social services. If they were to do a review of this policy, we could come up with something better.

My question to the honourable Minister of Public Works and Services: Will the Minister commit today to do a review of this policy? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Question 241-13(3): Review Of Business Incentive Policy
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 420

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

The Minister of Public Works and Services, Mr. Kakfwi.

Return To Question 241-13(3): Review Of Business Incentive Policy
Question 241-13(3): Review Of Business Incentive Policy
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 420

Stephen Kakfwi

Stephen Kakfwi Sahtu

Mr. Speaker, as the Minister of Economic Development and Tourism, I have now been assigned responsibility for the business incentive policy. It is my intention, of course, to become familiar with this policy and to review the original intent of the policy as well as to go through the comments and the suggestions that have been made to this government, as a result of a policy that was initiated by the previous government. So there was, as I understand it, already some element of a review conducted, and it's now my intention to review the situation as a new Minister and then decide whether to continue a review, to conclude it or to come up with additional elements of consultation in order to conclude a satisfactory review. Thank you.

Return To Question 241-13(3): Review Of Business Incentive Policy
Question 241-13(3): Review Of Business Incentive Policy
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 420

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Thank you, Mr. Kakfwi. Item 6, oral questions. Mr. Rabesca.

Supplementary To Question 241-13(3): Review Of Business Incentive Policy
Question 241-13(3): Review Of Business Incentive Policy
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 420

James Rabesca North Slave

I take it that the Minister responsible for Public Works and Services is saying yes; so if that's the case, I was wondering what time frame the Minister would consider to review this policy.

Supplementary To Question 241-13(3): Review Of Business Incentive Policy
Question 241-13(3): Review Of Business Incentive Policy
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 420

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Mr. Kakfwi.

Further Return To Question 241-13(3): Review Of Business Incentive Policy
Question 241-13(3): Review Of Business Incentive Policy
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 420

Stephen Kakfwi

Stephen Kakfwi Sahtu

Mr. Speaker, as I understand it, the policy was generally intended to be put in place in order to benefit northern and local businesses, and the review was to decide whether or not those goals and objectives that were set up for the policy to give effect to it do in fact achieve those and by what degree; and also to decide what changes would be necessary or desirable in order to improve on the present policy. There is no time frame.

As I understand it, the public consultation part of the review has been concluded. But, as I said, because I am a new Minister asked to take responsibility for it, I want to take some time, perhaps a week or two, to assess what has been done, what the original intent was in conducting a review of this policy and then report back to the Cabinet with my suggestions on whether to just leave things as they are, to drop the policy altogether or to make improvements; depending on the options we take to see what mechanisms we might want to use to achieve the options that we set up for ourselves. Thank you.

Further Return To Question 241-13(3): Review Of Business Incentive Policy
Question 241-13(3): Review Of Business Incentive Policy
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 420

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Thank you. Item 6, oral questions. Supplementary, Mr. Rabesca.

Supplementary To Question 241-13(3): Review Of Business Incentive Policy
Question 241-13(3): Review Of Business Incentive Policy
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 420

James Rabesca North Slave

Mr. Speaker, is the Minister responsible for Public Works and Services committing to having something of a response within another two or three weeks?

Supplementary To Question 241-13(3): Review Of Business Incentive Policy
Question 241-13(3): Review Of Business Incentive Policy
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 420

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Mr. Kakfwi.

Further Return To Question 241-13(3): Review Of Business Incentive Policy
Question 241-13(3): Review Of Business Incentive Policy
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 420

Stephen Kakfwi

Stephen Kakfwi Sahtu

Mr. Speaker, what I am trying to say in an inarticulate way is that I am a new Minister. I've been asked to take on responsibility for this policy, which, I understand, has very noble intentions and, according to some, has achieved some noble results. But it appears to be

a policy that is very complex and complicated and has many elements to it. I am not sure that trying to improve it will give us an opportunity to make it any less complicated. But, as I said, I want to look at it, see what has been done to it, see what has come out of the consultation that has been conducted over the last year or two by the government and by officials, to summarize as best I can what I think the present situation is and return to Cabinet with some recommendations. This is what I believe I will do, and I will try to do it and perhaps give the Premier an indication within two weeks of how soon I can move on this issue. Thank you.

Further Return To Question 241-13(3): Review Of Business Incentive Policy
Question 241-13(3): Review Of Business Incentive Policy
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 421

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Thank you. Item 6, oral questions. Mr. Picco.

Question 242-13(3): Implementation Of Salary And Contract Disclosure
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 421

Edward Picco Iqaluit

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. My question is for the Premier. Motion 7-13(3) on disclosure has now passed. Could the Premier inform the House when the Executive Council will be implementing said motion? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Question 242-13(3): Implementation Of Salary And Contract Disclosure
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 421

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

The Premier, Mr. Morin.

Return To Question 242-13(3): Implementation Of Salary And Contract Disclosure
Question 242-13(3): Implementation Of Salary And Contract Disclosure
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 421

Don Morin Tu Nedhe

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I understand that this motion was a recommendation to the Executive Council. As soon as we have time to deal with it, we'll deal with it and let the Member know.

Return To Question 242-13(3): Implementation Of Salary And Contract Disclosure
Question 242-13(3): Implementation Of Salary And Contract Disclosure
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 421

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Item 6, oral questions. Supplementary, Mr. Picco.

Supplementary To Question 242-13(3): Implementation Of Salary And Contract Disclosure
Question 242-13(3): Implementation Of Salary And Contract Disclosure
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 421

Edward Picco Iqaluit

Yes, Mr. Speaker, I know it was a recommendation because I drafted the motion. That's why it was a recommendation. Maybe the Minister could tell me when he thinks the Executive Council will have the opportunity to review the said motion for the act and when the amendments through legislation will come into place. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Supplementary To Question 242-13(3): Implementation Of Salary And Contract Disclosure
Question 242-13(3): Implementation Of Salary And Contract Disclosure
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 421

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Mr. Morin.

Further Return To Question 242-13(3): Implementation Of Salary And Contract Disclosure
Question 242-13(3): Implementation Of Salary And Contract Disclosure
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 421

Don Morin Tu Nedhe

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I will be pleased to give the Member a more definite date in October when we come back to this House. By that time, we should have had the opportunity to review the motion and look into it. Thank you.

Further Return To Question 242-13(3): Implementation Of Salary And Contract Disclosure
Question 242-13(3): Implementation Of Salary And Contract Disclosure
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 421

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Thank you. Item 6, oral questions. Supplementary, Mr. Picco.

Supplementary To Question 242-13(3): Implementation Of Salary And Contract Disclosure
Question 242-13(3): Implementation Of Salary And Contract Disclosure
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 421

Edward Picco Iqaluit

Yes, Mr. Speaker. I don't know if I'll be around in October. I wonder if there is a quicker time frame that the Premier thinks that this most important motion may come into place. Thank you.

Supplementary To Question 242-13(3): Implementation Of Salary And Contract Disclosure
Question 242-13(3): Implementation Of Salary And Contract Disclosure
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 421

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Mr. Morin.

Further Return To Question 242-13(3): Implementation Of Salary And Contract Disclosure
Question 242-13(3): Implementation Of Salary And Contract Disclosure
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 421

Don Morin Tu Nedhe

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. As the Member is aware, there is a long list of legislation to be dealt with and we have to review that in the context of that legislation. The Member is also aware, Mr. Speaker, that the House starts up again in the fall after the summer break; so it may seem like a long time, but that's the next available time to get back to the Member, because I know that I won't be back to him on this issue while this House is sitting this spring. Thank you.

Further Return To Question 242-13(3): Implementation Of Salary And Contract Disclosure
Question 242-13(3): Implementation Of Salary And Contract Disclosure
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 421

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Item 6, oral questions. Mr. Picco, supplementary.

Supplementary To Question 242-13(3): Implementation Of Salary And Contract Disclosure
Question 242-13(3): Implementation Of Salary And Contract Disclosure
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 421

Edward Picco Iqaluit

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I appreciate the amount of legislation and I accept the Premier saying that it will be October. Will the Premier then confirm with me that, in actuality, when October does come, the Executive Council will definitely take a serious look at it as stated in the aforesaid motion? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Supplementary To Question 242-13(3): Implementation Of Salary And Contract Disclosure
Question 242-13(3): Implementation Of Salary And Contract Disclosure
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 421

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Mr. Morin.

Further Return To Question 242-13(3): Implementation Of Salary And Contract Disclosure
Question 242-13(3): Implementation Of Salary And Contract Disclosure
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 421

Don Morin Tu Nedhe

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I would just like to assure the Member that 1, as Premier, and our Cabinet take all motions in the House seriously and we will take a serious look at it. Thank you.

Further Return To Question 242-13(3): Implementation Of Salary And Contract Disclosure
Question 242-13(3): Implementation Of Salary And Contract Disclosure
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 421

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Item 6, oral questions. Mr. Enuaraq.

Question 243-13(3): Update On Meeting With The Prime Minister
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 421

Tommy Enuaraq Baffin Central

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. My question is to the Premier. I understand the Premier has just returned from a meeting with the Prime Minister. I would like to ask the Premier how his meeting with the Prime Minister went.

Question 243-13(3): Update On Meeting With The Prime Minister
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 421

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Mr. Morin.

Return To Question 243-13(3): Update On Meeting With The Prime Minister
Question 243-13(3): Update On Meeting With The Prime Minister
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 421

Don Morin Tu Nedhe

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. The Member is correct, I just returned this morning from my meeting with the Prime Minister of Canada. I came out of the meeting

fairly excited and feeling very comfortable that he understood the issues of the Northwest Territories. I would be willing to make a full report to this House tomorrow in a Minister's statement. We arrived back at 10:00 this morning. As we speak, my staff is working on a Minister's statement for tomorrow. Thank you.

Return To Question 243-13(3): Update On Meeting With The Prime Minister
Question 243-13(3): Update On Meeting With The Prime Minister
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 422

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Item 6, oral questions. Supplementary, Mr. Enuaraq.

Supplementary To Question 243-13(3): Update On Meeting With The Prime Minister
Question 243-13(3): Update On Meeting With The Prime Minister
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 422

Tommy Enuaraq Baffin Central

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. How long was the Premier's meeting with the Prime Minister?

Supplementary To Question 243-13(3): Update On Meeting With The Prime Minister
Question 243-13(3): Update On Meeting With The Prime Minister
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 422

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Mr. Morin.

Further Return To Question 243-13(3): Update On Meeting With The Prime Minister
Question 243-13(3): Update On Meeting With The Prime Minister
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 422

Don Morin Tu Nedhe

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I had the pleasure of meeting with the Prime Minister for approximately 50 minutes. Thank you.

Further Return To Question 243-13(3): Update On Meeting With The Prime Minister
Question 243-13(3): Update On Meeting With The Prime Minister
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 422

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Item 6, oral questions. Mr. Barnabas.

Question 244-13(3): Cost Recovery For Search And Rescue In The Arctic
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 422

Levi Barnabas High Arctic

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. My question is to the Minister of MACA, the Honourable Manitok Thompson. I know there are many attempts from all over the world to go to the North Pole and Magnetic Pole. These people are not used to our climate and are not usually prepared for our northern climate. I understand this government spent over $500,000 last year to rescue most of these people who attempted to travel to the North Pole and Magnetic Pole. This spending is not covered through their insurance for the people who are attempting to travel to the North Pole. How is this money being covered by this government; how is it retrieved by this government? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Question 244-13(3): Cost Recovery For Search And Rescue In The Arctic
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 422

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

The Minister responsible for Municipal and Community Affairs, Mrs. Thompson.

Question 244-13(3): Cost Recovery For Search And Rescue In The Arctic
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 422

Manitok Thompson Aivilik

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I will take this question as notice. Thank you.

Question 244-13(3): Cost Recovery For Search And Rescue In The Arctic
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 422

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

The question is being taken as notice. Item 6, oral questions. Mr. Krutko.

Question 245-13(3): Chief Julius School Gymnasium Funding
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 422

David Krutko

David Krutko Mackenzie Delta

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. My question is to the Minister of Education with regard to the Chief Julius School in Fort McPherson and his department's refusal to enable them to build a full-size gymnasium, based on the size of the community. As I said in my opening statement, a larger gymnasium at this time would give the region the ability to host the next Arctic Winter Games, since Fort McPherson is the second-largest community in the region.

Basically, it will assist Inuvik to qualify to host the next Arctic Winter Games, having the proper facilities within the region.

A larger gymnasium will encourage students and others to use the facility; giving our children the opportunity to do more things with their time. It will also allow the region to host large regional and territorial events in the region. Would the Minister and his government colleagues actively seek and pursue additional funds to ensure that the Chief Julius School has a full-size gymnasium? Thank you.

Question 245-13(3): Chief Julius School Gymnasium Funding
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 422

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

The Minister of Education, Culture and Employment, Mr. Dent.

Return To Question 245-13(3): Chief Julius School Gymnasium Funding
Question 245-13(3): Chief Julius School Gymnasium Funding
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 422

Charles Dent

Charles Dent Yellowknife Frame Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Department officials will be happy to work with the community and the Beaufort/Delta board to see if there are ways we are able to work together to achieve this. I must say, at this point in time, we don't have any extra funds within the department. If there is some way, through a creative partnership, we could achieve the goal the community seeks, we would certainly be happy to take a look at it. I'm afraid we must stay within our contribution level set within our standards. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Return To Question 245-13(3): Chief Julius School Gymnasium Funding
Question 245-13(3): Chief Julius School Gymnasium Funding
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 422

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Item 6, oral questions. Supplementary, Mr. Krutko.

Supplementary To Question 245-13(3): Chief Julius School Gymnasium Funding
Question 245-13(3): Chief Julius School Gymnasium Funding
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 422

David Krutko

David Krutko Mackenzie Delta

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. in light of the financial restraints and the responsibility of your department ... The other area I mentioned -- Arctic Winter Games -- falls within the jurisdiction of your colleague from Municipal and Community Affairs. Within Cabinet, is there a possibility of working out other arrangements with other departments? I've received a letter from the mayor of Fort McPherson to the Minister of MACA, to look at the possibility of opening up the five-year capital plan for that community and look at the possibility of moving additional resources around. I would like to know from the Minister and his colleagues if this has been discussed in Cabinet.

Supplementary To Question 245-13(3): Chief Julius School Gymnasium Funding
Question 245-13(3): Chief Julius School Gymnasium Funding
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 422

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Mr. Dent. That was two questions.

Further Return To Question 245-13(3): Chief Julius School Gymnasium Funding
Question 245-13(3): Chief Julius School Gymnasium Funding
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 422

Charles Dent

Charles Dent Yellowknife Frame Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. . I've worked with the Minister of MACA and other communities when it's been possible. I would be happy to investigate that possibility in this situation also. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Further Return To Question 245-13(3): Chief Julius School Gymnasium Funding
Question 245-13(3): Chief Julius School Gymnasium Funding
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 422

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Item 6, oral questions. Mr. Ningark.

Question 246-13(3): Home Improvement Programs
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 423

John Ningark Natilikmiot

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. My question is directed to the honourable Minister responsible for the NWT Housing Corporation. Mr. Speaker, while we appreciate the government providing different programs to house the residents of the NWT, for the past 20 years now, we've had different programs under the NWT Housing Corporation; mainly the HAP housing program and ACCESS program. Mr. Speaker, there are a number of clients and people who have accessed those two programs in the past and have had their family grow to a large size, and are now trying to keep up with the energy/efficiency requirements. We appreciate the programs we have today.

There is wear and tear in the homes which are provided to the residents of the NWT, especially in the Eastern Arctic area. I have had a number of people approach me from Pelly Bay, Gjoa Haven, Taloyoak and other communities in the Kitikmeot region enquiring whether or not this government, the NWT Housing Corporation, has any type of program to allow for home improvements. My question to the honourable Minister: Are there any programs within the system that would allow the home owners to make improvements on their homes? Thank you.

Question 246-13(3): Home Improvement Programs
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 423

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

The Minister responsible for the NWT Housing Corporation, Mr. Arlooktoo.

Return To Question 246-13(3): Home Improvement Programs
Question 246-13(3): Home Improvement Programs
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 423

Goo Arlooktoo Baffin South

Mr. Speaker, the Housing Corporation runs a variety of programs to improve the condition of housing; this includes the home improvement program, the senior citizens' home repair program, the emergency repair program and sale of housing materials. I would be pleased to put together a package for the Member and pass this on to him for his information.

Return To Question 246-13(3): Home Improvement Programs
Question 246-13(3): Home Improvement Programs
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 423

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Item 6, oral questions. Supplementary, Mr. Ningark.

Supplementary To Question 246-13(3): Home Improvement Programs
Question 246-13(3): Home Improvement Programs
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 423

John Ningark Natilikmiot

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Supplementary to the same honourable Minister responsible for the NWT Housing Corporation. How soon will the honourable Minister provide me with the said information? Thank you.

Supplementary To Question 246-13(3): Home Improvement Programs
Question 246-13(3): Home Improvement Programs
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 423

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Mr. Arlooktoo.

Further Return To Question 246-13(3): Home Improvement Programs
Question 246-13(3): Home Improvement Programs
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 423

Goo Arlooktoo Baffin South

Mr. Speaker, my capable staff monitor what I say in this House. I would think that as I am speaking they are starting to put this package together.

Further Return To Question 246-13(3): Home Improvement Programs
Question 246-13(3): Home Improvement Programs
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 423

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Thank you, Mr. Arlooktoo. Item 6, oral questions. Mr. Ootes.

Question 247-13(3): Report On Affirmative Action Review
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 423

Jake Ootes

Jake Ootes Yellowknife Centre

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. My question is for the Minister of the Financial Management Board. Yesterday, Mr. Miltenberger asked about the final report on the review of the GNWT affirmative action policy and the Minister replied that he would look into this. I am very anxious to receive this report and to have it tabled in this House, and I am wondering if the Minister could tell us if we will definitely have an opportunity to review it during this session.

Question 247-13(3): Report On Affirmative Action Review
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 423

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

The Minister responsible for the Financial Management Board, Mr. Todd.

Return To Question 247-13(3): Report On Affirmative Action Review
Question 247-13(3): Report On Affirmative Action Review
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 423

John Todd Keewatin Central

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. It certainly was my intention yesterday, as it is now, to try and bring this document forward and table it in the House for some healthy debate. So, hopefully, I can table this document soon, and tomorrow I will report to my colleagues exactly when we will do such tabling of the document in the House. Thank you.

Return To Question 247-13(3): Report On Affirmative Action Review
Question 247-13(3): Report On Affirmative Action Review
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 423

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Thank you. Item 6, oral questions. Mr. Erasmus.

Return To Question 247-13(3): Report On Affirmative Action Review
Question 247-13(3): Report On Affirmative Action Review
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 423

Roy Erasmus Yellowknife North

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. My question is for the Minister of Justice. I would like to know if the Minister's computer and his secretaries' computers are working properly.

Return To Question 247-13(3): Report On Affirmative Action Review
Question 247-13(3): Report On Affirmative Action Review
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 423

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

The question is frivolous, and I am not going to refer it to the Minister. Mr. Erasmus.

Question 248-13(3): Reply To Requests For Intervenor Funding
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 423

Roy Erasmus Yellowknife North

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. My question is for the Minister of Justice. The reason I was wondering if his computer is working is because constituents of mine sent him a letter on April 19, 1995, and on September 21, 1995, concerning intervenor funding for the Yellowknives Dene First Nation and for Treaty 8 Tribal Council, and there is another follow-up letter dated May 8, 1996. As far as I know, there still has not been any reply. According to this letter, there has not been even a written acknowledgement of these requests. Can the Minister indicate what seems to be the problem?

Question 248-13(3): Reply To Requests For Intervenor Funding
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 423

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

The Minister of Justice, Mr. Ng.

Return To Question 248-13(3): Reply To Requests For Intervenor Funding
Question 248-13(3): Reply To Requests For Intervenor Funding
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 423

Kelvin Ng Kitikmeot

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. With respect to the letters of April 1, 1995, and September of 1995, prior to my being Minister of Justice, I can't respond to that at this time. With respect to the letter of May 8th, of last week, I cannot recall that crossing my desk yet; however, as it's an issue of importance to the Member, I will have that letter identified, located and dealt with as soon as possible. Thank you.

Return To Question 248-13(3): Reply To Requests For Intervenor Funding
Question 248-13(3): Reply To Requests For Intervenor Funding
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 424

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Thank you. Item 6, oral questions. Supplementary, Mr. Erasmus.

Supplementary To Question 248-13(3): Reply To Requests For Intervenor Funding
Question 248-13(3): Reply To Requests For Intervenor Funding
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 424

Roy Erasmus Yellowknife North

Mr. Speaker, I made sure that this information was on the Minister's desk yesterday, so can I have an indication of how soon the response will be?

Supplementary To Question 248-13(3): Reply To Requests For Intervenor Funding
Question 248-13(3): Reply To Requests For Intervenor Funding
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 424

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Mr. Ng.

Further Return To Question 248-13(3): Reply To Requests For Intervenor Funding
Question 248-13(3): Reply To Requests For Intervenor Funding
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 424

Kelvin Ng Kitikmeot

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I can anticipate responding to the honourable Member within 48 hours. Thank you.

Further Return To Question 248-13(3): Reply To Requests For Intervenor Funding
Question 248-13(3): Reply To Requests For Intervenor Funding
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 424

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Thank you. Item 6, oral questions. Mr. Picco.

Question 249-13(3): NWT Airport Marketing Strategy
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 424

Edward Picco Iqaluit

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. During the Iqaluit focus group, the usage of the airport and the $500,000 or more of money generated in a four-week period by BOAC in cold-weather testing their plane came up. My question for the Minister of Transportation is has a strategy for marketing our airports in the North to generate this type of revenue been contemplated. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Question 249-13(3): NWT Airport Marketing Strategy
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 424

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

The Minister of Transportation, Mr. Antoine.

Return To Question 249-13(3): Nwt Airport Marketing Strategy
Question 249-13(3): NWT Airport Marketing Strategy
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 424

Jim Antoine Nahendeh

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. The strategy for marketing airports to generate revenue is something that the department should look at. We have to look at all areas, as a government, for how we can generate revenue. As well as doing fiscal restraint, we have to be looking at ways where we can generate revenue. I will certainly take the Member's question under advisement and direct the department to look into that area. Thank you.

Return To Question 249-13(3): Nwt Airport Marketing Strategy
Question 249-13(3): NWT Airport Marketing Strategy
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 424

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Thank you. Item 6, oral questions. Mr. Roland.

Question 250-13(3): Northern Fuel Prices
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 424

Floyd Roland

Floyd Roland Inuvik

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I have some constituents concerned about an issue that would affect many northerners, and that's the price of gasoline. I have a question for the Minister responsible for petroleum products. Does the Minister know if there is any potential increase in gasoline prices this summer?

Question 250-13(3): Northern Fuel Prices
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 424

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

The Minister of Public Works and Services, Mr. Arlooktoo.

Return To Question 250-13(3): Northern Fuel Prices
Question 250-13(3): Northern Fuel Prices
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 424

Goo Arlooktoo Baffin South

Mr. Speaker, the Department of Public Works and Services is responsible for the petroleum products revolving fund. I will find out from the department what their projections are on fuel prices and get back to the Member.

Return To Question 250-13(3): Northern Fuel Prices
Question 250-13(3): Northern Fuel Prices
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 424

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Thank you. Item 6, oral questions. Supplementary, Mr. Roland.

Supplementary To Question 250-13(3): Northern Fuel Prices
Question 250-13(3): Northern Fuel Prices
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 424

Floyd Roland

Floyd Roland Inuvik

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Judging from that, can I then take it that there is nothing planned as of yet? Thank you.

Supplementary To Question 250-13(3): Northern Fuel Prices
Question 250-13(3): Northern Fuel Prices
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 424

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Mr. Arlooktoo.

Further Return To Question 250-13(3): Northern Fuel Prices
Question 250-13(3): Northern Fuel Prices
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 424

Goo Arlooktoo Baffin South

Mr. Speaker, one thing that is clear is if the government had not been able to achieve some real savings through the two major fuel contracts that we let in the last couple of months, the government would have had to raise fuel prices to deal with the petroleum products revolving fund deficit. I am not aware what the projections are in relation to the world fuel prices and how much we will have to pay to purchase the fuel for the summer.

Further Return To Question 250-13(3): Northern Fuel Prices
Question 250-13(3): Northern Fuel Prices
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 424

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Thank you. Item 6, oral questions. Mr. Picco.

Question 251-13(3): Application Of Seniors' Housing Rates
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 424

Edward Picco Iqaluit

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I just received the return to an oral question that I asked on March 27, 1996. My question will then be for the chairman of FMBS, Mr. Todd. The Housing Corporation has a policy in place where seniors do not pay any rent. Does this include the houses now being transferred through the staff housing program by the NWTHC to the FMBS?

Question 251-13(3): Application Of Seniors' Housing Rates
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 424

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

The Minister of Finance, Mr. Todd.

Return To Question 251-13(3): Application Of Seniors' Housing Rates
Question 251-13(3): Application Of Seniors' Housing Rates
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 424

John Todd Keewatin Central

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I am not sure I fully understood the Member's question. I think he was asking if the policies that are currently in place for elders under the NWT Housing Corporation will remain in place for the new houses that are going to be transferred from the FMBS to the NWT Housing Corporation. If that was the question, the answer is that's correct. Thank you.

Return To Question 251-13(3): Application Of Seniors' Housing Rates
Question 251-13(3): Application Of Seniors' Housing Rates
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 424

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Thank you. Item 6, oral questions. Supplementary, Mr. Picco.

Supplementary To Question 251-13(3): Application Of Seniors' Housing Rates
Question 251-13(3): Application Of Seniors' Housing Rates
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 424

Edward Picco Iqaluit

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. The reason for my question is that we have an employee, who is a senior now,

in one of these houses and he's still paying rent. Does this mean this person will now have to pay rent? As the Minister said, the policies are in place. Although this senior is working for the government, does he have to pay rent? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Supplementary To Question 251-13(3): Application Of Seniors' Housing Rates
Question 251-13(3): Application Of Seniors' Housing Rates
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 425

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Mr. Todd.

Further Return To Question 251-13(3): Application Of Seniors' Housing Rates
Question 251-13(3): Application Of Seniors' Housing Rates
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 425

John Todd Keewatin Central

Mr. Speaker, I'm not aware of the details of the circumstances of this particular employee. If the honourable Member would be prepared to provide me with that, I'd be only too happy to respond to him in the next day or so. Thank you.

Further Return To Question 251-13(3): Application Of Seniors' Housing Rates
Question 251-13(3): Application Of Seniors' Housing Rates
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 425

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Thank you. Item 6, oral questions. Supplementary, Mr. Picco.

Supplementary To Question 251-13(3): Application Of Seniors' Housing Rates
Question 251-13(3): Application Of Seniors' Housing Rates
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 425

Edward Picco Iqaluit

Mr. Speaker, for the benefit of the other seniors who are still working for this government -- because the seniors' policy is 60 and over -- who are also in staff housing, perhaps it's not just one case. I believe it's blanket coverage. Maybe we can look at that. Right now, for example, we have seniors living in housing association houses and they don't have to pay rent. Now those houses have been transferred from FMBS because they're taking over the staff housing to these other houses. Even though I'm working for the GNWT and I'm considered a senior, does this mean I'm paying rent in a house which has now been transferred? The Minister has not said yes, that policy is in place. There are quite a few of our employees who are in this situation.

Supplementary To Question 251-13(3): Application Of Seniors' Housing Rates
Question 251-13(3): Application Of Seniors' Housing Rates
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 425

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Mr. Todd.

Supplementary To Question 251-13(3): Application Of Seniors' Housing Rates
Question 251-13(3): Application Of Seniors' Housing Rates
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 425

John Todd Keewatin Central

I don't have a clue what the honourable Member is talking about. I will take the question as notice and try to decipher it from Hansard tomorrow and respond to him later this week.

Supplementary To Question 251-13(3): Application Of Seniors' Housing Rates
Question 251-13(3): Application Of Seniors' Housing Rates
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 425

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Thank you. The question has been taken as notice. Item 6, oral questions. Item 7, written questions. Mr. Barnabas.

Written Question 5-13(3): Education Issues In The Baffin Region
Item 7: Written Questions

Page 425

Levi Barnabas High Arctic

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I'm informed by the Baffin Divisional Board of Education that, due to changes in the way school community counsellors are funded, the divisional board anticipates that they may receive funding for only 12 of the 15 positions which are now in place.

1. There are five communities in the Baffin which will have more than one school next year. Will the Department of Education provide the Baffin Divisional

Board with funds to allow every community school to have a school counsellor?

2. Will school counsellor positions be built into the funding provided to divisional boards of education for the community grade extensions?

Forced Growth

There is a concern that if the school population grows by more than eight per cent, the divisional boards should be able to come back to the department and request supplementary funding for the portion that is above eight per cent.

3. Is there a supplementary reserve built into the 1996-97

budget which will be available to provide formula

funding increases to respond to the growth in the

student enrolments?

4. If the department now only considers supplementary funding after increases of more than eight per cent, does that mean we must wait two years before the Baffin can receive supplementary funding for the number of students we have?

McGill University Tuition Fees For TEP Students

Apparently, there's a dispute between the Department of Education, Arctic College and the Baffin Divisional Board about who pays for the fees which are required to be paid every year for the students in the community-based teacher program from Cape Dorset, Cambridge Bay and Coral Harbour. These fees will amount to $150,000 this year.

5. Is it true that the Department of Education is refusing

to pay for these fees for 1995-96?

Will the Department of Education be paying the McGill tuition fees for TEP students at the Nunavut Arctic College for the year 1996-97?

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Written Question 5-13(3): Education Issues In The Baffin Region
Item 7: Written Questions

Page 425

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Thank you. Item 7, written questions. Item 8, returns to written questions. Item 9, replies to Opening Address. Mr. Kakfwi.

Item 9: Replies To Opening Address
Item 9: Replies To Opening Address

Page 425

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Hon. Stephen Kakfwi's Reply

Item 9: Replies To Opening Address
Item 9: Replies To Opening Address

Page 425

Stephen Kakfwi

Stephen Kakfwi Sahtu

Mr. Speaker, I wish to speak to the issue of the name for a Western Territory; not a name but, rather, a geopolitical description. Our leaders all have a responsibility to help set the proper context for discussion on a wide range of issues -abortion, death penalty, homosexuality, euthanasia -- and some of those issues are current today. These issues affect each of us so profoundly that we are taxed mentally, psychologically, socially and morally to our very human limits and struggling to come to terms with them; individually, as families, as communities and even as a country.

The issue of what to name ourselves, our home, our lands and jurisdiction after division in 1999 is perhaps not so profound, but it compels us to try to think and accept certain realities. It compels us to reach to our inner courage, to accept the changes we have created and to move on to a new phase in our history. We owe it to ourselves to move on and to accept that change has come. We can no longer regard ourselves as a child, a colony of Ottawa, a territory. We have come to a point in our history when we have no choice but to seize the opportunity to become something more. It is our duty, I believe, to ourselves for everything we have fought for, for all that has changed in the last 25 years. It is our duty to move on for the future of our youth, for the future of our children. We must not ever make it necessary for our children to have to go through the hardship and the pain that so many of us have gone through in our struggle to assert our rights, our identity and our self-determination. Why would we work so hard for change, only to tell Ottawa in the end that we now want to maintain the current status quo?

It was only in 1986 that the Commissioner of the Northwest Territories, John Parker, turned to Nick Sibbeston in an Executive Council meeting and handed him the gavel to chair meetings of the Council. This Council has since evolved into a Cabinet of a government which has responsibilities very similar to those held by provincial jurisdictions. Since that time, the pace of change has been unrelenting. I believe that the intensity of change will become even more demanding in the months ahead, now that the process for division of the Territories has begun to accelerate.

For those of us in the western part of this place, known by most as the "Northwest Territories," I think the reality that change may be passing us is beginning to sink in. I'm not entirely sure just what caused this but it may be the day that Iqaluit was designated as the future capital of Nunavut. That event made the emergence of Nunavut seem to be just that much closer, that much more real for some people here in the West to sit up and take notice. The way I see it, our colleagues in the East have, for quite some years now, had a pretty clear sense of where they're going and how they propose to get there. There are a few details to work out yet but, for the most part, there is an incredible rising sense of pride in this entity called 'Nunavut," which I am told means "our land."

Much of this extraordinary collective commitment to carving Nunavut out of what is the eastern NWT can be attributed to the fact that the name itself conveys so much. "Nunavut,' our land, our sense of ourselves, our collective commitment to a sense of purpose and direction that is distinctly ours and that no one shall divert us from. We could use a bit of that here in the West. In fact, I think we could use a lot of it. Without a clear sense of who we are, what we want and where we are going, we run the risk of being a little more than a rudderless ship.

There is a joke going around these days that maybe those lands west of Nunavut and east of Yukon should become known as "Rest-Of-It." I am sure that not too far below the surface of that unhappy designation rests a good measure of truth. Without a pure sense of purpose, we are in danger of becoming geopolitical leftovers. Surely we can, should and must do better than that. I believe we will and I believe we can begin with the creation of a new name for our area of this great country.

I know there are some out there who have an almost pathological commitment to the designation of this place as the Northwest Territories. I am sure there are many others who share that. I have little doubt that as little political development pushed westward from Upper and Lower Canada to the wilds of what is now Manitoba, there were people who having made the transition from being residents of Rupert's Land, then became proud citizens of the Northwest Territories. I am sure many people at that time felt they wanted to leave things just the way they were.

Fortunately, for those who advocated the value of establishing new and distinct society and making new additions to confederation, there wasn't the excuse of the large stacks of unused stationery around to provide the argument that we should maintain the status quo. It is significant that the trend continued as the Northwest Territories was whittled away to create new provinces and the Yukon. Saskatchewan and Alberta saw the value of communicating the message that there was something new, different in nature from what had gone before. Although each might have laid claim to the designation "Northwest Territories," none of them did.

I suggest that in each case, this resulted from an appreciation of the fact that there was much to be gained from entering the confederation club as a full partner. There wasn't much at all to be said for being a territory which, by definition, contemplates status as an administrative zone of a distant central government. It is also significant that as it became apparent that the map of Canada was about to change; this time, with the division of the Northwest Territories in April 1999, there was no hint of any argument over which side would be entitled to lay claim over the name Northwest Territories. Inuit and other people living in the region understood and embraced the examples of Manitoba, Saskatchewan, Alberta and Yukon. They knew the value of establishing a distinct identify for themselves as they moved towards the realization of their aspirations for something new and something bold; a new beginning that would cause Canadians to sit up and take notice.

Here on the western side, we have had a difficult time getting people to realize that division is about more than just the creation of Nunavut. It is and it must be about the creation of two new, viable, political jurisdictions north of 60. In a way, we are our own worst enemies in advancing our interests. Mired as we are in our commitment to the status quo, we have been unable to capture the imagination and attention of Canadians. Selecting a new name which conveys a sense of who we are and our vision of where we may be going surely won't resolve every issue confronting us, but it will be the best start and the only start we can give ourselves. It is also a piece of business which is long overdue.

I believe it is useful to reflect a bit further on just how we came to have the name "Northwest Territories" in the first place. As the name has been handed down from our provincial siblings like an old, threadbare sweater, we have perhaps lost sight of the fact that it originated with civil servants in Ottawa who, believing themselves to be the centre of the Canadian universe, felt the need to name everything they considered within their dominion. When faced with the task of giving an appropriate designation to that large blob of land to the west and north of Ottawa, the best they could come up with was the Northwestern Territory which, over time, was simplified to Northwest Territories. It was the easiest, most convenient name to give it and, for bureaucrats preoccupied with far more pressing matters of state, it was certainly easier to remember than anything that might have been actually more appropriate, both to the land and to the nature of those people who occupied and owned those lands. The name was also useful because it conveyed a very clear sense about who was in charge. The lands might have been a long way from Ottawa, but Ottawa was careful to express the point that they were the masters of any undeveloped territories, which they might choose to have greater use of at some time in the future.

If I could borrow a phrase from my friend Zebede Nungak, who has a renowned talent for illustrating the absurdity of some of our more recent history, he says our ancestors "woke up one morning to find themselves newly-minted citizens" of the Northwestern Territory. No one had asked any of the original occupants of those lands what they thought about the idea of such a name. Those lands had names already. It was likely that many people simply went on believing that nothing had changed, but it had. It took a little while for the full weight of those changes to become apparent. Many of us feel that weight today. Some, unable to see any glimpse of the vision of the future in this thing called the Northwest Territories, have simply elected to go back to ignoring that the place exists at all. Leaders such as Garry Antoine, Jerry Paulette and others have done that. I don't believe they are alone.

Those with a passion for preserving the name Northwest Territories will do well to reflect on just what that might mean. From my perspective, it isn't particularly complicated. We have members of the family who no longer or never did see themselves in the picture. We are fools if we persist in ignoring the reality and the legitimacy of that viewpoint.

Why do we name things anyway? What does it say to those who come into contact with us? What does it say about how we view ourselves? We name ourselves, or our parents do, to convey a sense of who we are. When my wife and I had our children, we worked, researched and did a lot of soul-searching. We named our first daughter, Kyle. In Dene, it's Kyla. It means willow tip. The name was meant to signify that it was a new season for us in our life, a new beginning. We gave her the name Marissa, which is "Deneized" to mean *little Marie.'

Our second daughter is Daylyn. It is a Dene word that refers to rapids or where the water flows. It is in reference to the power and the beauty of water; rough, gentle, powerful.

Our son's name, Keenan, comes from the Dene name Kee'hay'nee which means one without arrows, a man who needs no weapons. He came to us in a time of global peace and a move towards disarmament. His name is meant to reflect that.

I give you examples to say that I believe once we give some thought to the dimensions of this exercise we are engaged in, perhaps we have to do a lot more work, look within ourselves, look to our elders and our history and look forward to the vision we have together. That will give us the name. For now, I focus on the arguments as to why I think Northwest Territories is not a name and not a choice we can afford to entertain.

Ottawa has named us in the past, in many ways. It has exercised control over other matters which should have been left to us. Now is the time we can take greater control and we must continue to do so. We have moved well beyond being an administrative zone of a distant government, to the point where we want and need a new relationship, a partnership, with the federal government and a partnership with the provinces, the Yukon and Nunavut. There was a time in the past when Manitoba also reached that conclusion. Saskatchewan and Alberta followed. Yukon carved out its own identity. Nunavut has now done the same and we would be wise to do likewise. We should be realistic in giving the changes that have taken place as new provinces that joined confederation. The descriptive term, 'Northwest Territories," is no longer even an accurate description of where we are, let alone who we are. That alone ought to give us the incentive to make the change.

Yukon is in the northwest corner of this country, but we are unlikely to hear a plea from them that they have the most logical claim to the name that we are all too determined to cling to. There is a reason for that. We should take the time to consider what that reason might be. For me, the answer is simple: It would be a step backwards. Let there be no mistake, I believe we must choose our own name. We must take the time first to debate the relevant issues and implications and then take an informed decision on where to go from here.

It is important to remember as well that we are still largely an aboriginal population here in the western part of what is still the Northwest Territories. We should appreciate the fact that provinces with considerably smaller aboriginal populations had, in selecting new names to express themselves, selected aboriginal names. Manitoba, Saskatchewan, Canada. This country itself takes its name from its aboriginal foundation. Over the course of the last few weeks, I have been talking to people about my view that we should be moving towards selecting a new name and giving ourselves a new beginning. It should come as no surprise to all of you that there are many, perhaps too many, who disagree with my perspective and have made it clear that they would prefer to leave things as they are now.

I believe that some of the arguments that have been advanced have been largely because there is some political apathy that has set in to this part of the Western Territory. We have been buffeted by a lot of reactionary views in recent years and are lacking in a single visionary approach to the many issues that are confounding us at this time. You should be interested to know that Yukon is a Gwich'in word which, roughly translated, means "big river." No one goes over there and calls them a territory. They despise that word. They don't want it used. They prefer to be called "Yukon" or, at least, "the Yukon." They are trying to drop that word. They are trying to stop using the word "the" in describing themselves and they are trying to drop 'Territory." They would simply be Yukon, like Alberta. We are now the only jurisdiction in Canada that still uses the word "the" in describing ourselves.

These are important points of debate that I wanted to raise today. I also want to bring out the point that there are some leaders in the West who are content with things as they are because they appreciate that as long as we are a territory or territories, we are, by nature and by definition, divisible. For those who see value in Balkanizing the western part of the Northwest Territories, maintaining the status quo is in their best interest. As long as we view ourselves as nothing more than a territory, we will be nothing more than a territory. If we act in a manner that makes it clear that we think of ourselves and for ourselves in good terms and clear terms, then we can expect to be treated differently. It is unacceptable to me that we should try to do anything less. If we are prepared, as we say we are, to accept responsibility for our own destiny, we should be prepared to take a place at the table of confederation in a manner which makes it clear to everyone that we have long since overcome our territorial inferiority complex. I would like to mention that if we fail to see the agenda and get this important business behind us, we will be vulnerable; not only internally, but also from an external perspective.

Territories are fair game. It has always been that way and it remains that way still. We saw the point illustrated rather recently when the federal government moved through Bill C-110 to establish a legal process for lending of the federal veto power on constitutional reform to the various regions of the country. The North, once again, wasn't in the equation at all. Territories are the only regions into which provinces can expand and extend their territorial boundaries. We need to act to lessen that risk. Some will say it could never happen and I hope they are right, but I believe we must do what we can to lessen that exposure. That is the duty and the essence of government.

The fact that faceless bureaucrats from Ottawa named everything that they became aware of up here shouldn't come as surprise to any of us who live here. We have been compelled for generations to live with places named after people who have never set foot here or lived here. Our communities have been successfully and systematically unravelling that chain for several years now. Fort Franklin and Fort Norman have changed their names to Deline and Tulita. Arctic Red River is now Tsiigehtchic. Lac La Martre is now Wha Ti.

What I am saying today is the time has come to follow the lead of our communities in making sure that we adopt a new name which, rooted in our true past, would speak to our strength of vision for our collective future. I am personally very impressed by the will and spirit of the people in our communities who have had the courage to challenge the status quo and to make the change. They have dedicated extraordinary time, wisdom and energy to making these changes happen, and I see no reason why Members of this Assembly or the people in our communities ought to work to a lower standard.

The Northwest Territories is not a name. It is, rather, a description, a geographic/political label in relation to Ottawa. A proper name would not be prefixed with the word "the." Try dropping the words "the" and "Territories." Does Northwest stand alone as a name for our people? Does it make you feel proud? Listen to it: "Northwest." What does it say? To complete the name, it really needs the word "territories" after it. Then think about it again. We would be the only jurisdiction in this great country known by its political and geographic location and as a territory in relation to Eastern Canada, not by something inspirational, meaningful or relevant.

The name Northwest Territories has served us all well, but like everyone else, we must face up to the fact that it is now time to retire it with the dignity and respect it deserves. It was an honourable name and, out of it, great new provinces were carved; provinces which have never forgotten they were part of the Northwest Territories but have now had the courage and the maturity to move on to establishing their own unique identity, ever mindful of their own history.

In the Globe and Mail on May 14th, the writer, Michael Valpy, said: "History is a battleground. Whichever side wins gets to tell the story of a place with the prism of its own culture. The losers get erased.' I say to the Dene, the Metis, the Inuvialuit and the non-aboriginal people of the Northwest Territories, we were erased once when we were named the Northwest Territories. Let us, along with the people of Nunavut, now put our new name on the map of Canada. Let us finally complete the map of Canada, once and for all, properly.

I am confident that, with time -- and we don't seem to have a lot of it -- we will come to the conclusion that we should manage change; that, with time, we will elect to exercise leadership and move towards division in a manner which recognizes the distinct nature of the western part of the Northwest Territories. I believe we will collectively recognize the value of giving that vision a name. Our citizens must guide that decision.

So what should the name be? Well, we all know and love this place of extraordinary beauty and have grown to appreciate the tremendous potential that all of us collectively bring to it. There is incredible cultural and geographical diversity, and it's a vast land. I believe what we have to do is collectively look back into our history, look into the future and define what it is that we wish for our children and what kind of a vision we have for them in the future. Speaking to the elders, bringing them together to help us look back in order to see ahead will give us the name that we seem unable and unwilling to entertain at this time. Thank you.

--- Applause

Item 9: Replies To Opening Address
Item 9: Replies To Opening Address

Page 428

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Thank you, Mr. Kakfwi. At this time, I would like to recognize in the gallery Glenn Williams. Glenn used to be the renewable resources officer in Arctic Bay, now living in Iqaluit. Welcome to the Assembly.

--- Applause I would also like to recognize my daughter, Olga Dawn, and her friend, Kevin.

---Applause

Olga Dawn means morning light.

Item 9, replies to opening address. Item 10, petitions. Mr. Ningark.

Item 10: Petitions
Item 10: Petitions

Page 429

John Ningark Natilikmiot

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I would like to present Petition No. 41-13(3), dealing with the matter of MLA compensation, from the people of Taloyoak. Mr. Speaker, the petition contains 21 signatures and, Mr. Speaker, the petitioners request that the MLA compensation package be publicly debated and resolved.

I have another couple of petitions here.

--- (Microphone turned off)

Item 10: Petitions
Item 10: Petitions

Page 429

John Ningark Natilikmiot

Thank you. Mr. Speaker, I have a petition from the Hamlet of Gjoa Haven. Petition No. 42-13(3) contains 34 signatures and requests that the MLA compensation package be publicly debated and resolved.

I have one more petition, Mr. Speaker. I have a petition from the people of the Hamlet of Pelly Bay. Mr. Speaker, Petition No. 43-13(3) contains 17 signatures, and one of the signature happens to belong to my son.

--- Interjection

Item 10: Petitions
Item 10: Petitions

Page 429

John Ningark Natilikmiot

He has chosen to be a teacher rather than my son, but I chose to be his father rather than his MLA.

--- Laughter

The petition requests that the MLA compensation package be publicly debated and resolved. Thank you.

Item 10: Petitions
Item 10: Petitions

Page 429

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Thank you. Item 10, petitions. Mr. Rabesca.

Item 10: Petitions
Item 10: Petitions

Page 429

James Rabesca North Slave

Mr. Speaker, I would like to present Petition No. 44-13(3), on your behalf, dealing with the matter of the MLA compensation report. Mr. Speaker, the petition contains 11 signatures from residents of Fort Providence and, Mr. Speaker, the petitioners request that the MLA compensation package be publicly debated and resolved. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Item 10: Petitions
Item 10: Petitions

Page 429

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Thank you. Item 10, petitions. Mr. Arlooktoo.

Item 10: Petitions
Item 10: Petitions

Page 429

Goo Arlooktoo Baffin South

Mr. Speaker, I would like to present Petition No. 45-13(3), signed by seven residents of Sanikiluaq that states: "We, the undersigned, demand that you, as our MLA, present the following changes to the Public Service Act: 1) Amend the act so that members of the union have a choice between the right to strike or third-party binding arbitration; and 2) Amend the act so that an independent labour staff relations board is responsible to ensure that no employee is unfairly excluded from the union.

Item 10: Petitions
Item 10: Petitions

Page 429

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Item 10, petitions. Are there any further petitions? Item 11, reports of standing and special committees. Item 12, reports of committees on the review of bills. Item 13, tabling of documents. Mr. Arlooktoo.

Item 13: Tabling Of Documents
Item 13: Tabling Of Documents

Page 429

Goo Arlooktoo Baffin South

Mr. Speaker, I wish to table Tabled Document 46-13(3), Northwest Territories Housing Corporation 1996-97 Corporate Plan.

Item 13: Tabling Of Documents
Item 13: Tabling Of Documents

Page 429

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Thank you. Item 13, tabling of documents. Mr. Antoine.

Item 13: Tabling Of Documents
Item 13: Tabling Of Documents

Page 429

Jim Antoine Nahendeh

Mahsi, Mr. Speaker. I would like to table Tabled Document 47-13(3), the text of an address made at a public hearing of the subcommittee on Bill C-222 on behalf of the Government of the Northwest Territories. The presentation was made on Thursday, May 9, 1996, in Ottawa. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Item 13: Tabling Of Documents
Item 13: Tabling Of Documents

Page 429

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Thank you. Item 13, tabling of documents. Mr. Clerk.

Item 13: Tabling Of Documents
Item 13: Tabling Of Documents

Page 429

Clerk Of The House Mr. David Hamilton

Mr. Speaker, according to Rule 42(10), I wish to table Tabled Document 48-13(3), response to Petition 1-13(3), presented by Mr. Barnabas and responded to by the chairman of the Financial Management Board; also, Mr. Speaker, a response to Petition 4-13(3), presented by Mr. Arlooktoo and responded to by the chairman of the Financial Management Board; also Petition 5-13(3), presented by Mr. Henry and responded to by the chairman of the Financial Management Board; response to Petition 7-13(3), presented by Mr. Picco and responded to by the chairman of the Financial Management Board; response to Petition 8-13(3), presented by Mr. Barnabas and responded to by the chairman of the Financial Management Board; response to Petition 12-13(1), presented by Mrs. Groenewegen and responded to by the Minister of Public Works and Services.

Item 13: Tabling Of Documents
Item 13: Tabling Of Documents

Page 429

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Thank you. Item 13, tabling of documents. Do we have further tabling of documents? Item 14, notices of motion. Item 15, notices of motions for first reading of bills. Item 16, motions. Mrs. Groenewegen, your motion. I can't read the numbers on this. Go ahead.

Motion 8-13(3): Rescission Of March 28, 1996 Committee Of The Whole Decision, Carried
Item 16: Motions

Page 429

Jane Groenewegen

Jane Groenewegen Hay River

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

WHEREAS an independent commission was appointed by the Legislative Assembly to review the compensation provided to Members of the Legislative Assembly;

AND WHEREAS the Report of the Commission on MLA Compensation was tabled by the Speaker as Tabled Document 1-13(3) on March 20, 1996; AND WHEREAS the Report of the Commission on MLA Compensation was only discussed in Committee of the Whole on March 21, 1996, and March 28, 1996;

AND WHEREAS the Report of the Commission on MLA Compensation did not receive detailed consideration in Committee of the Whole before it was reported as being concluded;

AND WHEREAS there is a need to give due consideration to the Report of the Commission on MLA Compensation;

NOW THEREFORE I MOVE, seconded by the honourable Member for Yellowknife Centre, that the motion adopting the report by the chairman of Committee of the Whole on Thursday, March 28, 1996, in respect to the position taken by this House, that the discussion on the Report of the Commission on MLA Compensation had been concluded, be rescinded;

AND FURTHER that Tabled Document 1-13(3) be referred back to Committee of the Whole for further consideration.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Thank you. Your motion is in order. To your motion, Mrs. Groenewegen. Do you wish to speak to the motion? Does the seconder wish to speak to the motion?

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An Hon. Member

Question.

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The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Question has been called. All those in favour? All those opposed? The motion is carried.

--- Carried

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The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Item 16, motions. Mrs. Groenewegen.

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Jane Groenewegen

Jane Groenewegen Hay River

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I would like to seek unanimous consent to proceed with Motion 9-13(3) today.

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The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Thank you. The Member for Hay River is seeking unanimous consent to deal with Motion 9-13(3). Do we have any nays? You have unanimous consent, Mrs. Groenewegen. There was a nay? I am sorry; you don't have unanimous consent. Item 16, motions. Item 17, first reading of bills. Item 18, second reading of bills. Item 19, consideration in Committee of the Whole of bills and other matters: Bill 8, An Act to Amend the Income Tax Act; Bill 11, Appropriation Act, 1996-97; Committee Report 1- 13(3), Standing Committee on Government Operations Report on the Review of the 1996-97 Main Estimates; Committee Report 2-13(3), Standing Committee on Infrastructure Report on the Review of the 1996-97 Main Estimates; Committee Report 3-13(3), Standing Committee on Resource Management and Development Report on the Review of the 1996-97 Main Estimates; and, Committee Report 4-13(3), Standing Committee on Social Programs Report on the Review of the 1996-97 Main Estimates, with Mrs. Groenewegen in the Chair.

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The Chair

The Chair Jane Groenewegen

I call Committee of the Whole to order. There are a number of things on the order paper for today for consideration in Committee of the Whole. I would like to seek the wishes of the committee. Mr. Erasmus.

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Roy Erasmus Yellowknife North

Thank you, Madam Chair. We would like to continue reviewing Bill 11, Appropriation Act, 1996-97, and to continue today with the Department of Renewable Resources, followed by Transportation and, if there's time, Health and Social Services.

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The Chair

The Chair Jane Groenewegen

Thank you, Mr. Erasmus. Does the committee agree.

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Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

--- Agreed

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The Chair

The Chair Jane Groenewegen

We will take a 10-minute break.

--- SHORT RECESS

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The Chair

The Chair Jane Groenewegen

Department Of Renewable Resources

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The Chair

The Chair Jane Groenewegen

I'd like to call Committee of the Whole back to order. I'd like to ask the Minister if he is ready to proceed with his opening comments for Renewable Resources.

Minister's Introductory Remarks

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Stephen Kakfwi

Stephen Kakfwi Sahtu

Thank you, Madam Chair. Madam Chair, the people of the North want a healthy environment and healthy economy. The Department of Renewable Resources has a mandate to manage resources in the environment and this mandate will not change with consolidation. We are all aware that the air, the land and water are no longer as clean as they used to be. The department, along with other agencies, monitors the level of contaminants in our environment, the wildlife and is working to reduce local sources of pollutants. For example, we recently released, for public consultation, the draft guidelines to help reduce sulphur dioxide emissions through gold roaster operations. We are also encouraging the federal government to take action on arsenic emissions.

Waste management is another problem we'll all have to deal with. To help communities in managing wastes, the department is providing information on recycling solid waste and disposal of household hazardous waste. To assist industry, guidelines are being developed and identification of disposal options, storing, transportation and registering hazardous waste.

Madam Chair, we all work hard at keeping our homes clean and we must learn to do the same for our environment. If we are able to keep the air, land and water clean, our wildlife, forests and fish will remain healthy. This is necessary because renewable resources have an important part to play in the territorial economy. Harvesting, processing and managing renewable resources provides over 4,000 seasonal jobs every year. The activities include fishing, guiding, forest fire management, trapping, cutting timber, processing meat and resource management. These activities are concentrated in the smaller communities which have few employment opportunities.

The 1994 resource development strategy identified actions the department would take to increase fiscal and subsistence benefits from using and managing resources. These actions are producing results. For example, the fur industry is reviving. The two-year-old fur pricing program has increased the number of active trappers by 50 per cent and we have been able to meet the increased demand for humane traps. In the Eastern Arctic, the seal harvest has doubled. Efforts to develop and market new seal products are meeting with success, both in local and southern markets. Production methods include options for people to work in their homes which reduced the need for infrastructure. Timber harvesting has also increased. For the first time ever, fire-damaged timber was harvested in the Simpson region. The harvest of 14,000 cubic metres is a fraction of the one million cubic metres that remain. We estimate that the forest industry has the potential to support 800 jobs. To ensure the timber harvest is sustainable, we must also conduct inventories and plant trees. These activities generate further employment and much of this work is done under contract by community corporations.

The department runs training courses to ensure a trained workforce is available. Successful harvests of caribou and muskox are providing seasonal employment in Cambridge Bay and Coral Harbour. In Baffin, where the marine fisheries have provided substantial benefits over the last four years, I will continue my efforts to secure our share of the quotas for shrimp and groundfish and to promote sustainable harvesting of these resources. For thousands of years, hunting, fishing and trapping have been honourable occupations. I believe this can and should continue. These activities provide a healthy lifestyle, help us maintain our traditions, they require a high degree of skill and knowledge, and they provide substantial subsistence benefits.

Our people want to retain their link with the land and they also want to benefit from the resources around them. Our government has provided aboriginal organizations with the opportunity to develop their own harvesters' support funds, if certain conditions, such as matching funds, are met. The Nunavut harvesters' support program began last year and, as well, in the West, I would like to congratulate the Gwich'in Tribal Council, the Inuvialuit Regional Corporation, the Fort Good Hope Hunters' and Trappers' Association, the Deline Hunters' and Trappers' Association, the Ernie MacDonald Land Corporation, the Wrigley K-ue First Nation and Deninu K'ue First Nation for taking on this challenge. In 1996-97, these organizations and our government are each contributing a total of $5.5 million.

The department is also working with communities and other departments on ways to get people out on the land and to teach the skills needed. For example, in Wha Ti, young people from correctional facilities will be able to go out and learn traditional skills. In Fort Good Hope, families will receive assistance to get oil and gas to go out to spring camps. These initiatives do not require a lot of money but will provide a lot of benefits.

Madam Chair, in developing the 1996-97 budget, our goal was to prevent any reduction in contributions or services to communities. I'm pleased to say that I believe we have achieved that. We are also working on ways to meet our government's objective to increase the authority of communities. With a prediction of another summer of low water levels and dry forest conditions, I'm making some further changes to increase community authority for taking action in fighting forest fires close to communities.

I have advised all community leaders in the Western Arctic that communities may assume authority for initial attack on any forest fires in the predefined high-value areas that are close to communities. Communities will be able to use any resources on hand within a predetermined spending limit. If the fires are not contained within 24 hours, departmental staff will assist the community in deciding what further action to take. In all other forested areas, the department will continue to provide forest fire management policies in accordance with the forest fire management policy.

With the increased interest in timber harvesting, the department is assisting communities to develop management plans for the resources around their communities. In this way, communities will be able to say exactly what and how their resources can best be used and conserved. Communities must be involved in making decisions on using and managing the resources around them if they are to contribute to the economic development and to maintaining a healthy environment.

Madam Chair, the proposed consolidation of the departments of Renewable Resources, Economic Development and Tourism, and Energy, Mines and Petroleum Resources have raised some questions. I know how important a healthy environment is to all territorial residents. I am also aware of how significant renewable resources are to the smaller communities, to our aboriginal people and of the strong relationship they each have with one another. Over the next few months, I will make every effort to meet with community leaders to obtain their views on consolidation and I will listen carefully to what they have to say. My objective is to develop programs and services that allow communities to benefit from the resources around them, as well as maintain a healthy and productive use of these resources. Thank you.

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The Chair Jane Groenewegen

Thank you, Mr. Kakfwi. Would a Member of the Resource Management committee wish to comment on the departmental overview? Mr. Ootes.

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The Chair

The Chair Jane Groenewegen

Standing Committee On Resource Management Comments

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Jake Ootes

Jake Ootes Yellowknife Centre

Thank you, Madam Chair. It is my pleasure to present the comments of the Standing Committee on Resource Management and Development regarding this department. On Monday, we presented some general comments on the three departments of Economic Development and Tourism, Energy, Mines and Petroleum Resources and Renewable Resources. However, we also had some specific comments regarding the Department of Renewable Resources.

Forest Fire Management

During the initial review of this department's business plan, it was obvious that the forest fire management program suffered a historical deficiency in base funding. As an example, the department had budgeted $23.691 million for the 1994-95 fire season, but total costs came in at over $43.004 million. Based on this historical deficiency, the committee approved a $7.3 million increase to this program's base funding.

In making this recommendation, the committee noted that the Department of Renewable Resources must now consider this amount "capped." The committee explained that, only in the case of a genuine emergency, could this newly established ceiling be exceeded. Furthermore, the Members would expect the department to provide a full report on any such overexpenditure.

This new ceiling will force the department to make some hard decisions or cuts regarding which fires to fight and what response method is most appropriate. The committee expects the department to work closely with communities in determining these important factors.

On a related issue, the committee was interested in the department's proposal to enter into a lease arrangement with Buffalo Airways Limited for the use of three CANSO aircraft. Committee Members are disappointed, however, that information on this issue was not provided earlier and that the committee was not involved until after a final decision was made. Members are looking forward to the fall when the committee will have an opportunity to assess this aircraft's usefulness with the Minister.

Western NWT Harvesters' Assistance Program

The committee is supportive of this program but is concerned with the way in which it is funded. In the past, the department has funded the program through special warrants and supplementary appropriations.

Members warned the government that extra funds through supplementary appropriations do not exist, given the current financial situation, and recommended the department identify an annual amount for the program in the main estimates.

Committee Members are pleased to see a budgeted amount of $2.454 million for this program in the 1996-97 main estimates. Members feel that this proactive approach will allow both the department and the recipient to better plan for the expenditure while avoiding the use of special warrants. Thank you, Madam Chair.

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The Chair

The Chair Jane Groenewegen

Thank you, Mr. Ootes. Would the committee like to proceed with general comments?

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Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

--- Agreed

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The Chair

The Chair Jane Groenewegen

I am sorry, the Minister may want to bring in his witnesses before we go ahead with general comments.

Mr. Kakfwi, for the record, would you please introduce your witness?

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Stephen Kakfwi

Stephen Kakfwi Sahtu

Thank you, Madam Chair. I have on my left the acting deputy minister of Renewable Resources, Bob McLeod.

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The Chair

The Chair Jane Groenewegen

Thank you. General comments. Mr. Enuaraq.

General Comments

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Tommy Enuaraq Baffin Central

(Translation) Thank you, Madam Chair. I have a question while we are under general comments. There were studies done on polar bears in some of the Baffin communities. Will that still be funded by Renewable Resources?

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The Chair

The Chair Jane Groenewegen

Mr. Minister.

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Stephen Kakfwi

Stephen Kakfwi Sahtu

Madam Chair, as far as I know, the intent and the interest is to continue with the research and studies that we do on polar bears and how we can sustain and manage that wildlife. We have gained some international recognition for our work in this area. We have done some work to jointly fund some of this work with the Nunavut Wildlife Board. Thank you.

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The Chair

The Chair Jane Groenewegen

Thank you, Mr. Kakfwi. Mr. Enuaraq.

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Tommy Enuaraq Baffin Central

(Translation) Thank you, Madam Chair. I think we are all aware that within Nunavut, hunting is very important to the Inuit and the subject of polar bears always comes up. For the past few years, some of the quotas for polar bears have been reduced and the territorial government was able to provide funding for the communities. If their quotas had been reduced, they were assisted by the GNWT. I wonder if the Minister of Renewable Resources can respond to that. Thank you.

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The Chair

The Chair Jane Groenewegen

Thank you, Mr. Enuaraq. Mr. Minister.

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Stephen Kakfwi

Stephen Kakfwi Sahtu

It is true the department has always recognized the importance of polar bears and the importance of polar bears to Inuit communities. We have worked very hard over the last few years to try to get an adequate research database in order to ensure that quotas and the way we manage that particular wildlife species is done in a way that ensures the healthy growth and presence of those animals. In the areas of Clyde River and Baffin Island, some years ago there was a serious question about the ability of the polar bear population to sustain itself should further hunts be allowed. So the quotas were removed and we provided compensation to those communities to diminish the hardship to the hunters and the people who depended on the harvesting of polar bears. This is still in place up until June of this year. Following that, there will be a review of the present status of polar bear populations in those areas, with a view that we can now go back to allowing a quota of polar bears to be hunted this year.

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The Chair

The Chair Jane Groenewegen

Mr. Enuaraq.

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Tommy Enuaraq Baffin Central

(Translation) Thank you, Madam Chair. I would like to ask another question. Some of the communities in Nunavut do sport hunting. We have to be very careful how the polar bears are managed by the government. We are close to Greenland and we hear that they are allowed to hunt polar bears. I wonder if this has been studied or if there has been research done; that there won't be problems arising from Nunavut or Greenland. Thank you.

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The Chair

The Chair Jane Groenewegen

Thank you. Mr. Kakfwi.

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Stephen Kakfwi

Stephen Kakfwi Sahtu

Madam Chair, the Government of Greenland and ourselves are moving towards working closer together on the study, research and the management of the polar bear population in the Arctic. We hope to have some agreements in place some time soon with the Government of Greenland, for instance, that will govern each of us on how we allow for sport hunting and community harvests.

There is work being done to find ways to make agreements with Greenland on those two areas; the research and the management, and the sustainable use of them. Thank you.

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The Chair

The Chair Jane Groenewegen

Thank you, Mr. Kakfwi. Mr. Barnabas.

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Levi Barnabas High Arctic

Thank you, Madam Chair. As I said in my statement today, a very complicated situation is arising in my constituency. There may be a possible conflict between Parks Canada's plans to consider a new national park on north Bathurst Island and Cominco's strong expression of interest in that same island. The issue involves Renewable Resources, in particular, the Perry Caribou; Energy, Mines and Petroleum Resources because the future of major territorial mines is involved; and Economic Development and Tourism because of the economic importance of the mines to the region and even the territorial economy as a whole.

I find it most interesting, Madam Chair, that the new Minister of the future Department of Sustainable Development is being asked by me to comment on an issue which involves exactly what I understand sustainable development is proposed to be. I believe that our land is like a bank which contains the rich deposit of the renewable resources on which we depend. If we looked at our finances this way, then whatever decisions are taken, development must ensure that the rich, never-ending resource on which the aboriginal culture depends for its expression, survival and enhancement is not tampered with.

This goes almost without saying; however, Madam Chair, we almost must realize that in the current financial climate in the NWT and Canada, mines which operate on our lands also make an important contribution to the quality of life in our communities. They provide employment opportunities, transportation, communication and other facilities. They pay taxes to the territorial treasury. Frankly, I would be concerned if I learned the mines in Nanisivik or Little Cornwallis Island -- both of which exist in my constituency - were to be shut down, especially if it was due to lack of ore. I know that we are blessed with rich mineral resources in the Northwest Territories and on Baffin Island. I believe there are probably a lot of unexplored mineral deposits in our region. We should make sure that if we are to make decisions on these important development issues, we are given all the facts.

I also believe that it is particularly important that the views of the residents of those communities should be the advice which is listened to first by the governments. My constituents have the biggest interest in making sure that the land remains unspoiled. These are the lands and waters on which they depend for their traditional livelihood and way of life. They can be trusted to make the right decisions. Is the Minister aware of these issues?

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The Chair

The Chair Jane Groenewegen

Thank you, Mr. Barnabas. Mr. Kakfwi.

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Stephen Kakfwi

Stephen Kakfwi Sahtu

Madam Chair, I am aware of the issues. There is a sense that the mines operating within the constituency of Mr. Barnabas need new sources of ore in order to continue operating. The areas identified by the mining companies that are potential new sources of these minerals are apparently in the calving grounds of the caribou herd. So I think what needs to be said is that we can assure the Member that 1, as Minister, along with the government, will make the commitment and take the time to make sure we make well-informed, balanced decisions.

We will do it keeping in mind that it is the people in his constituency who have the greatest interest, both in maintaining and protecting the wildlife and the environment, but also in the mining activity as well. Thank you.

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The Chair

The Chair Jane Groenewegen

Thank you, Mr. Kakfwi. Mr. Barnabas.

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Levi Barnabas High Arctic

Thank you, Madam Chair. I also have some information on the sequence of events which have occurred between 1992 and the present. As I understand it, the whole question of land withdrawal came to a head on January 5, 1996. This is an important issue, as I see it. It will affect whether or not Cominco will be allowed to explore anywhere on north Bathurst Island, an area which appears to

have promising mineral potential. Apparently, the representatives from three departments of the Government of Canada and the representatives of the Government of the Northwest Territories met to discuss this issue along with representatives of BRIA in the community of Resolute Bay. My question is: What is the approximate contribution of the Polaris Mine on Little Cornwallis Island to the economy of the NWT, including tax revenue and the value of their annual production; and do you have the same figures for the Nanisivik Mine on Strathcona Sound?

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The Chair

The Chair Jane Groenewegen

Thank you. Mr. Barnabas. Mr. Kakfwi.

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Stephen Kakfwi

Stephen Kakfwi Sahtu

Thank you, Madam Chair. We can get that information for the Member, perhaps from the Department of Economic Development and Tourism and the Minister of Finance.

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The Chair

The Chair Jane Groenewegen

Thank you. Mr. Barnabas.

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Levi Barnabas High Arctic

Madam Chair, my next question is: Is it true that the GNWT did not take a position on the question of land withdrawal and, if so, why would our government not have made recommendations of any kind?

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The Chair

The Chair Jane Groenewegen

Mr. Kakfwi.

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Stephen Kakfwi

Stephen Kakfwi Sahtu

Madam Chair, Mr. McLeod will answer that question.

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The Chair

The Chair Jane Groenewegen

Thank you. Mr. McLeod.

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McLeod

The situation that the Member describes is one that the government has faced in a number of situations. We also had the situation in Anwar. We also had the situation with regard to Darnley Bay near Paulatuk. It's a policy decision that we're in the process of dealing with. We've convened workshops involving wildlife management boards and received input from the different management boards. We have developed the draft policy with regard to dealing with calving grounds, and we expect to have a policy for our government in the near future.

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The Chair

The Chair Jane Groenewegen

Thank you, Mr. McLeod. Mr. Barnabas.

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Levi Barnabas High Arctic

Thank you, Madam Chair. Would the Minister agree that perhaps a review should be undertaken to determine the most appropriate role the GNWT should take on these development issues?

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The Chair

The Chair Jane Groenewegen

Mr. Kakfwi.

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Stephen Kakfwi

Stephen Kakfwi Sahtu

Thank you, Madam Chair. On issues like this, normally, the Cabinet would be involved in bringing together the different elements, interests and concerns that arise as a result of proposed development and are advised by the respective departments as to the impact, implications and consequences of proposed developments and processes that can be accessed to address the different issues and concerns that arise. So, that would be what I expect will come as a result of this issue.

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The Chair

The Chair Jane Groenewegen

Thank you, Mr. Kakfwi. Mr. Barnabas.

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Levi Barnabas High Arctic

I would like to know when the Cabinet will meet to discuss this issue. Thank you.

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The Chair

The Chair Jane Groenewegen

Mr. Kakfwi.

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Stephen Kakfwi

Stephen Kakfwi Sahtu

Madam Chair, I am not able to advise the Member at this time as to when we would be preparing to go to Cabinet on this. I would expect to be able to get a firm idea of the relative amount of time I need in order to first put the issue to Cabinet and get direction on how to answer and address the questions that will arise from the Cabinet discussion. Thank you.

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The Chair

The Chair Jane Groenewegen

Thank you. Mr. Barnabas.

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Levi Barnabas High Arctic

Thank you, Madam Chair. Could the Minister explain to me the implications of the Nunavut land claims agreement and what role boards like the Nunavut Impact Review Board and the Nunavut Environmental Review Board will have on the current way of dealing with these issues?

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The Chair Jane Groenewegen

Mr. Kakfwi.

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Stephen Kakfwi

Stephen Kakfwi Sahtu

Madam Chair, the impact review panel will be involved in reviewing this project once it is actually proposed. As a result of the obligations arising from the Nunavut claim, these agencies will be involved in the project review. Thank you.

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The Chair Jane Groenewegen

Thank you, Mr. Kakfwi. Mr. Barnabas.

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Levi Barnabas High Arctic

Thank you, Madam Chair. When will the Nunavut land claims provisions involving impact review, environment and wildlife management come to full effect?

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The Chair

The Chair Jane Groenewegen

Mr. Kakfwi.

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Stephen Kakfwi

Stephen Kakfwi Sahtu

Madam Chair, I believe that once an actual document proposing to go ahead with a specific project is received by the federal government and by this government, those processes will begin. Thank you.

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The Chair

The Chair Jane Groenewegen

Mr. Barnabas.

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Levi Barnabas High Arctic

My next question, Madam Chair, is whether the GNWT...

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The Chair Jane Groenewegen

Sorry. Can I just interrupt you for one second? Mr. Barnabas, I just wanted to ask you, is this question on the same subject as the previous questions, because I am thinking that perhaps we should give some of the other Members a chance to ask questions and still come back to yours if it's on a new topic.

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Levi Barnabas High Arctic

Okay.

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The Chair Jane Groenewegen

Would that be all right?

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Levi Barnabas High Arctic

Yes.

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The Chair Jane Groenewegen

Thank you. Mr. Miltenberger.

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Michael Miltenberger

Michael Miltenberger Thebacha

Thank you, Madam Chair. I hope the deputy minister doesn't have a tee time booked tonight because he is probably going to miss it.

I would just like to make a number of general comments with regard to this department and areas of concern that I will be watching with interest.

I am very interested in the new steps being taken in forest fire management and attempts to bring control closer to the communities, and in relation to that, of course, to see how the CANSO story will unfold and if they will be as efficient as is hoped, and hopefully, we will have some clear data by the end of the fire season to give us an indication one way or the other which way we are going to go with those.

I am also very concerned about the whole area that was touched on somewhat in the budget: timber management and forest inventory. I consider that to be a very fundamental management tool. If we are going to make the right decisions for the right reasons, we have to know what we have, what kinds of resources, where they are, their age, species and all those other integral components of an inventory. I look forward to seeing that built into some sort of -which may exist -- an overall timber management plan.

I am also -- as I learn more and more about the area of renewable resources -- very concerned about the state of rivers and water. I have had numerous discussions with the mayor of Fort Smith, who is on the Northern Basin River Study, and I made a statement earlier this week in the House about the state of stress that the river systems are under: with pollution and development; the temperature and climate change, which has affected the rates of evaporation and cut our water supplies. This is going to have a direct impact on things such as forest fire management, as water levels drop and the dryness increases in the bush. The Northern Basin River Study and the Mackenzie basin agreement are two critical pieces of information that are going to have a great bearing in the coming year.

My final two comments relate to the western harvesters' fund. Based on my somewhat superficial information, it appears very easy to access that funding. I am thinking particularly of a proposal received from my riding -- which was acknowledged as being very thin -- which we were going to fund to the tune of over $500,000. Although I fully support the intent and the use of those funds, I'm very concerned we spend the money wisely and that we fund proposals which can stand the scrutiny, both in terms of being economical and efficient, but also tie into the overall plans for renewable resources; in this case, timber management or any other area.

I'm very interested in working through the committees and the Minister's department, with the deputy minister, on the whole area of consolidation. I think there's an opportunity not just to integrate existing departments, but create a new structure that will allow a whole array of creative blending of structures and development of a new approach and integration of a whole array of services which will hopefully allow us to move forward in a lot of areas we haven't been able to address because of the lack of coordination. Thank you.

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The Chair Jane Groenewegen

Thank you, Mr. Miltenberger. Those weren't really questions. Did you want the Minister to respond to the comments?

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Michael Miltenberger

Michael Miltenberger Thebacha

Those were general comments, Madam Chair.

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The Chair

The Chair Jane Groenewegen

Thank you. Mr. Ningark.

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John Ningark Natilikmiot

Thank you, Madam Chair. I would like to cover three areas of concern in Natilikmiot. We don't have a renewable resource officer or an economic development officer in Pelly Bay. Having a person in the area of renewable resource management is essential for the community of Pelly Bay. We have a number of programs under this department which pertain to training, policy and planning. Fur management is very important for Pelly Bay. We have a number of people who are interested in getting involved with the commercial fishery.

Conservation education is equally important. That is not to say, Madam Chair, that people don't conserve when they are harvesting. People in my area are law-abiding people. By the same token, I think it is important to have someone in the community who knows the system, the programs; knows what is available to help the people when they are hunting and harvesting for subsistence use or to supplement their income.

When I talk about supplementing the income of community people in Pelly Bay, Gjoa Haven and Taloyoak, I'm talking about those people whose only income is from social assistance. The only means of income may be supplemented from hunting, may be derived from carving. The only income that may be supplemented by hunting may be from those people who have a part-time job. Harvesting in this area is very important.

Madam Chair, the Minister may recall during the 13th Assembly, a request came from the community of Pelly Bay for the government to put a person year in their community; a renewable resource officer. We had a meeting with representation from Pelly Bay and the honourable Minister. I believe we met with the Honourable Stephen Kakfwi to talk about the possibility of putting a renewable resource officer in Pelly Bay. Often, we have a person coming in from the community of Taloyoak but this is not often enough. We don't get regular visits from the renewable resource officer.

In order to enforce the regulations, under the laws of this government, in order to ensure people do not break the law under the jurisdiction, the domain of the Minister, people should be educated. There should be a person available within the community to talk to the people in the event that this person may not know what is happening in their community. At the appropriate time, I will be asking the Minister whether or not a person year will be included for Pelly Bay to conduct the enforcement, education, at cetera.

Madam Chair, I wanted to cover another area: Almost every year for the past five years, we have had polar bears coming into the community of Pelly Bay, in town, out of hunting season. There is more than one case in Pelly Bay when a nuisance bear has been disposed of, killed and the hide has been confiscated. People are able to live with that. I have talked with a few hunters who have had their fur taken from them. They know the regulations. They know when a nuisance bear is killed within the community in order to protect the lives of the people, if it is out of season, the fur will be confiscated. One thing they are not able to understand or live with is when the meat is confiscated. As I mentioned earlier, most people hunt to supplement their income. The income which is being supplemented might be social assistance or money made from carving. Meat is very important to the people of my area, especially for the elders. It is not often that enough people get to enjoy polar bear meat, only during the hunting season. If a bear is killed during the off-season, the meat may be confiscated. If a female bear is killed which goes beyond the expected quota, the meat is confiscated. We understand the laws, we understand the polar bear hide must be confiscated. We have no problem with this. However, when the meat is confiscated there is a problem in the community.

I believe it was the former Minister who I spoke to regarding this concern. I don't recall exactly what his response was. I believe he told me it was part of the policy regulations. Can the honourable Minister indicate to this committee and the people of Pelly Bay that when a polar bear is killed out of season, or if a female is killed which exceeds the number expected to be killed, could the meat be given to a hunter in order for the community to share the meat? This is very essential, especially in the fall. Thank you, Madam Chair.

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The Chair Jane Groenewegen

Thank you, Mr. Ningark. Mr. Kakfwi.

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Stephen Kakfwi

Stephen Kakfwi Sahtu

Madam Chair, if there is agreement from the local hunters' and trappers' association or the equivalent local community body, then we will do as the Member requests. Thank you.

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The Chair

The Chair Jane Groenewegen

Thank you. Mr. Steen.

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Vince Steen

Vince Steen Nunakput

Thank you, Madam Chair. I wish to commend your department on their efforts to amend the Marine Mammals Act. I think this is very beneficial to all the harvesters and, also, I hope this government is just as successful in their efforts to amend the Migratory Birds Convention Act. Perhaps the Minister may wish to give this committee an update as to where negotiations are at this point with the other concerned parties with regard to the Migratory Birds Convention Act.

Madam Chair, I wish to thank the Minister on behalf of the Inuvialuit Regional Corporation for the department's favourable response to the corporation's request under the western harvesters' assistance program. I would like to encourage the department to work closely with the people of

Sachs Harbour to help resolve the overpopulation of muskox. I know the department has been working with the communities. Perhaps the Minister would like to update the committee as to what the department's opinion is as to what can be done in this situation. Maybe I will ask for an update. Is there any potential to benefit from this overpopulation of muskox? Thank you, Madam Chair.

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The Chair Jane Groenewegen

Thank you, Mr. Steen. Mr. Kakfwi.

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Stephen Kakfwi

Stephen Kakfwi Sahtu

Madam Chair, with regard to the muskox harvesting, as the Member knows, there is an overabundance of muskox in relation to the caribou that traditionally wintered in the same areas. What I see as a few difficulties -- maybe more than a couple -- one is we don't have a marketing strategy for muskox meat. We don't have the subsequent sales that would follow an effective marketing strategy.

The other difficulty we have, supposedly, is the distance and remoteness of Sachs Harbour; bringing that meat down to Edmonton, Montreal, et cetera, where we expect to develop a market for the meat. The suggestion is it is a long distance and expensive. It may be economical. We also know we have legs of lamb here from Australia. So I am not sure if the distance is insurmountable.

Having said that, the other problem I see is the one to do with the regulations where federal laws govern how you could take live animals and then reduce them into packages of meat for commercial resale, and the steps and laws that we have to follow in dealing with those.

We also don't have a clear idea of how, in partnership with the Inuvialuit, we could deal with the overpopulation of the muskox and how to address the problem of a wipe-out of the caribou population that used to be there. Thank you.

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The Chair Jane Groenewegen

Thank you. Mr. Steen.

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Vince Steen

Vince Steen Nunakput

Thank you, Madam Chair. Could the Minister give us an update on negotiations, or if he is involved at all in negotiations, with the Migratory Birds Convention Act?

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The Chair

The Chair Jane Groenewegen

Thank you. Mr. Minister.

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Stephen Kakfwi

Stephen Kakfwi Sahtu

As far as the Migratory Birds Convention Act, I understand we are now at a stage where, within Canada, there is agreement on the amendments. What we don't have yet is the agreement with the United States on those proposed amendments. Mexico is the other party involved with that.

These discussions hopefully should resolve this fairly soon. In the meantime, we are carrying on as if these amendments had been agreed to. So there is no enforcement of the present amendments that govern whether or not aboriginal people can harvest migratory birds in the spring. Thank you.

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The Chair

The Chair Jane Groenewegen

Thank you. Mr. Steen.

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Vince Steen

Vince Steen Nunakput

Thank you, Madam Chair. I find that very encouraging and I am encouraged by the department's efforts to allow for spring harvesting. Perhaps this Assembly could do just as well by possibly closing the House in the middle of May in the future. Thank you.

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The Chair

The Chair Jane Groenewegen

Thank you. That was a comment and not a question. Mr. Evaloarjuk.

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Mark Evaloarjuk Amittuq

(Translation) Madam Chair, non-game birds such as seagulls and ravens are growing in our region very quickly. We heard that we can't hunt seagulls or any other non-game birds. There are quite a few geese in our region. There are many geese coming in. When they are fat, they are good to eat. When seagulls are so abundant at the floe edge, they don't allow any other birds in. The overpopulation is so great that other birds are not able to survive. The geese used to rest around the floe edge. Since the seagulls are so many, they have wiped out this game bird from our region. The other birds have been taken out. Maybe during Canada Day, we could probably hunt and have a day when we could go and hunt seagulls. Whoever gets the most seagulls, they could win a lottery. We can't eat them. They are scavengers. For that reason, they aren't palatable. They usually feed on other birds' food and their numbers have become so great. How could we deal with birds that are not wanted in the regions? Have you ever considered this aspect?

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The Chair Jane Groenewegen

Thank you. Mr. Kakfwi.

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Stephen Kakfwi

Stephen Kakfwi Sahtu

Thank you, Madam Chair. We aren't of the view that the seagull population is a problem or a concern. There is concern, not only in our jurisdiction but in other jurisdictions across Canada; the geese population is a growing concern. Their habitat and their supply of food is starting to be unable to sustain the growing population. So there is now a move to set up some sort of a national body to look at the problem that all provinces and territories are facing with regard to what to do with the large number of geese that come north, in our case. Perhaps they will run out of food and be unable to sustain themselves in the spring, summer and fall when they return to the North. Thank you.

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The Chair

The Chair Jane Groenewegen

Thank you. Mr. Barnabas.

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Levi Barnabas High Arctic

Thank you, Madam Chair. Is the GNWT a major player in this exercise -- as I think it should be -- or is the federal government making all the key decisions for us?

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The Chair

The Chair Jane Groenewegen

Thank you. Mr. Kakfwi.

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Stephen Kakfwi

Stephen Kakfwi Sahtu

Madam Chair, when the federal government sets up parks, I understand they carry on some consultation with users of the area with respect to governments under which jurisdiction the park is going to be set up. There is some discussion about the impact of establishing parks on the different sectors; the mining sector, for instance. There are environmental and ecological concerns.

When proposed developments happen, because it is on Crown land, it is a federal review process. The process is set up by the claims that will come into effect. The Government of the Northwest Territories, as such, has no jurisdiction on federal lands or on inland waters. So most of the processes and regulatory regimes that will come into effect as a result of proposed developments like this are federal. The critical players in this very often are Members of Parliament; in the Member's case, Mr. Jack Anawak. It would be good for us to make contact with Mr. Jack Anawak to discuss with him his views on these two proposed developments; the suggestion of a national park and the suggestion of another mining project being proposed and see how he sees addressing the different issues as a result of these initiatives and how, as a government, we can help Members like Mr. Levi Barnabas deal with the concerns that he has as an elected Member of this Legislature and how we can help his community deal with the concerns. Thank you.

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The Chair

The Chair Jane Groenewegen

Thank you. Are there any further general comments? Mr. Roland.

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Floyd Roland

Floyd Roland Inuvik

Thank you, Madam Chair. I have some general comments on the speaking notes from the Minister on stimulating the economy. I am very interested in this area, as we have spoken about creating opportunities and employment in the North a number of times. I believe we have a wealth of resources that we can use, but we are having some problems in the area of marketing or developing those. I would be interested to see if the department has any plans under way or is looking at areas of developing their renewable resources end, not in the area of mining.

Also, as Mr. Steen stated earlier, the work going on with the hunters and trappers is a valuable program and I am glad to see it has continued. That is an area there as well that we can continue to improve on and I hope that we do.

I think we can go a long way in alleviating a lot of the burden in the Territories by helping in the renewable resource area of developing, and relieve some of the burden that is placed on social assistance and so on that people have started to rely on heavily over the years. It would be good to see this department develop some initiatives to bring forward ideas of developing areas of renewable resources. Thank you.

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The Chair

The Chair Jane Groenewegen

Thank you. Did you have any comments to that, Mr. Minister?

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Stephen Kakfwi

Stephen Kakfwi Sahtu

Yes, thank you. The department will be, through the consolidation exercise, working with the Department of Economic Development and Tourism to see how the strategies that renewable resources has are working, for instance, in promoting more efficient and better use of the different resources we have in the North; seals, fur, wild meat, fish, fisheries, sport hunting, timber harvesting, et cetera. For each of these things, we have strategies on how we can make better use of them. We will be working with Economic Development and Tourism even more closely on how to create markets and increase sales of

these products that we are working on, and also looking at the job creation aspect of the strategy. So we think that consolidation will help us, sharpening our focus and perhaps accelerating the work to ensure that we get some results that we need in these different sectors. Thank you.

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The Chair

The Chair Jane Groenewegen

Thank you, Mr. Kakfwi. Any further general comments?

--- Interjection

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The Chair

The Chair Jane Groenewegen

Does the committee agree that we will proceed with the detail?

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Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

--- Agreed

Line By Line

Directorate

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The Chair

The Chair Jane Groenewegen

Could I direct your attention, please, to page 9-10, directorate, renewable resources, operations and maintenance, total operations and maintenance, $1.86 million.

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Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

--- Agreed

Wildlife Management

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The Chair

The Chair Jane Groenewegen

Wildlife management, operations and maintenance, total operations and maintenance, $3.477 million.

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Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

--- Agreed

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The Chair

The Chair Jane Groenewegen

Detail of capital, wildlife management, equipment acquisition, headquarters, total region, $60,000.

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Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

--- Agreed

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The Chair

The Chair Jane Groenewegen

Total equipment acquisition, $60,000.

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Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

--- Agreed

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The Chair

The Chair Jane Groenewegen

Total activity,

$60,000.

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Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 438

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

--- Agreed

Conservation Education And Resource Development

Committee Report 3-13(3): Standing Committee On Resource Management And Development Report On The Review Of The 1996-97 Main Estimates
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 438

The Chair

The Chair Jane Groenewegen

Conservation education and resource development, operations and maintenance, total operations and maintenance, $10.344 million.

Committee Report 3-13(3): Standing Committee On Resource Management And Development Report On The Review Of The 1996-97 Main Estimates
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 438

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

--- Agreed

Policy And Planning

Committee Report 3-13(3): Standing Committee On Resource Management And Development Report On The Review Of The 1996-97 Main Estimates
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 438

The Chair

The Chair Jane Groenewegen

Policy and planning, operations and maintenance, total operations and maintenance, $806,000. Mr. Erasmus.

Committee Report 3-13(3): Standing Committee On Resource Management And Development Report On The Review Of The 1996-97 Main Estimates
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 438

Roy Erasmus Yellowknife North

Thank you, Madam Chair. Could you slow down a little bit, please?

Committee Report 3-13(3): Standing Committee On Resource Management And Development Report On The Review Of The 1996-97 Main Estimates
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Page 438

The Chair

The Chair Jane Groenewegen

Oh, I'm sorry. I was going rather quickly.

Committee Report 3-13(3): Standing Committee On Resource Management And Development Report On The Review Of The 1996-97 Main Estimates
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Page 438

Roy Erasmus Yellowknife North

I'm not sure which page we are on anymore.

Committee Report 3-13(3): Standing Committee On Resource Management And Development Report On The Review Of The 1996-97 Main Estimates
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Page 438

The Chair

The Chair Jane Groenewegen

I was going fairly quickly. I asked Mr. Hamilton to sort of keep an eye on Members for hands, but we can slow down. We are on page 9-14, policy and planning, operations and maintenance, total operations and maintenance, $806,000. Mr. Roland.

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Page 438

Floyd Roland

Floyd Roland Inuvik

Just a small question on casual positions: How much is .15? Is that a quarter of a casual?

Committee Report 3-13(3): Standing Committee On Resource Management And Development Report On The Review Of The 1996-97 Main Estimates
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 438

The Chair

The Chair Jane Groenewegen

Mr. Kakfwi.

Committee Report 3-13(3): Standing Committee On Resource Management And Development Report On The Review Of The 1996-97 Main Estimates
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Stephen Kakfwi

Stephen Kakfwi Sahtu

Mr. McLeod will take that question.

Committee Report 3-13(3): Standing Committee On Resource Management And Development Report On The Review Of The 1996-97 Main Estimates
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Page 438

The Chair

The Chair Jane Groenewegen

Mr. McLeod.

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McLeod

Thank you. Generally, they operate on person years. For a seasonal job, it's usually .3 of a person year, so .15 would be half the summer.

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The Chair

The Chair Jane Groenewegen

Okay, thank you, Mr. McLeod. Are we ready to proceed then? Policy and planning, operations and maintenance, total operations and maintenance, $806,000.

Committee Report 3-13(3): Standing Committee On Resource Management And Development Report On The Review Of The 1996-97 Main Estimates
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 438

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

--- Agreed

Environmental Protection

Committee Report 3-13(3): Standing Committee On Resource Management And Development Report On The Review Of The 1996-97 Main Estimates
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 438

The Chair

The Chair Jane Groenewegen

Environmental protection, operations and maintenance, total operations and maintenance, $688,000.

Committee Report 3-13(3): Standing Committee On Resource Management And Development Report On The Review Of The 1996-97 Main Estimates
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 438

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

--- Agreed

Committee Report 3-13(3): Standing Committee On Resource Management And Development Report On The Review Of The 1996-97 Main Estimates
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 439

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

--- Agreed

Committee Report 3-13(3): Standing Committee On Resource Management And Development Report On The Review Of The 1996-97 Main Estimates
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 439

The Chair

The Chair Jane Groenewegen

Total equipment acquisition, $25,000.

Committee Report 3-13(3): Standing Committee On Resource Management And Development Report On The Review Of The 1996-97 Main Estimates
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 439

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

--- Agreed

Committee Report 3-13(3): Standing Committee On Resource Management And Development Report On The Review Of The 1996-97 Main Estimates
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 439

The Chair

The Chair Jane Groenewegen

Total activity,

$25,000.

Committee Report 3-13(3): Standing Committee On Resource Management And Development Report On The Review Of The 1996-97 Main Estimates
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 439

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

--- Agreed

Field Operations

Committee Report 3-13(3): Standing Committee On Resource Management And Development Report On The Review Of The 1996-97 Main Estimates
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 439

The Chair

The Chair Jane Groenewegen

Field operations, operations and maintenance, total operations and maintenance, $9.031 million.

Committee Report 3-13(3): Standing Committee On Resource Management And Development Report On The Review Of The 1996-97 Main Estimates
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 439

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

--- Agreed

Committee Report 3-13(3): Standing Committee On Resource Management And Development Report On The Review Of The 1996-97 Main Estimates
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 439

The Chair

The Chair Jane Groenewegen

Detail of capital, field operations, buildings and works, Fort Smith, total region, $40,000.

Committee Report 3-13(3): Standing Committee On Resource Management And Development Report On The Review Of The 1996-97 Main Estimates
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 439

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

--- Agreed

Committee Report 3-13(3): Standing Committee On Resource Management And Development Report On The Review Of The 1996-97 Main Estimates
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 439

The Chair

The Chair Jane Groenewegen

Buildings and works, Inuvik, total region, $105,000.

Committee Report 3-13(3): Standing Committee On Resource Management And Development Report On The Review Of The 1996-97 Main Estimates
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 439

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

--- Agreed

Committee Report 3-13(3): Standing Committee On Resource Management And Development Report On The Review Of The 1996-97 Main Estimates
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 439

The Chair

The Chair Jane Groenewegen

Buildings and works, Baffin, total region, $704,000. Mr. Ningark.

Committee Report 3-13(3): Standing Committee On Resource Management And Development Report On The Review Of The 1996-97 Main Estimates
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Page 439

John Ningark Natilikmiot

Thank you, Madam Chair. On this page, Madam Chair, I don't see any mention or any heading where Kitikmeot is written. Don't we count anymore?

--- Interjection

Committee Report 3-13(3): Standing Committee On Resource Management And Development Report On The Review Of The 1996-97 Main Estimates
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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John Ningark Natilikmiot

Thank you.

Committee Report 3-13(3): Standing Committee On Resource Management And Development Report On The Review Of The 1996-97 Main Estimates
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Page 439

The Chair

The Chair Jane Groenewegen

Thank you, Mr. Ningark. I'll ask the Minister that question. I'll direct that question to the Minister.

Committee Report 3-13(3): Standing Committee On Resource Management And Development Report On The Review Of The 1996-97 Main Estimates
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John Ningark Natilikmiot

It's on the next page. That's okay, Madam Chair, I see it on the next page. Thank you.

Committee Report 3-13(3): Standing Committee On Resource Management And Development Report On The Review Of The 1996-97 Main Estimates
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The Chair

The Chair Jane Groenewegen

All right. Mr. Steen.

Committee Report 3-13(3): Standing Committee On Resource Management And Development Report On The Review Of The 1996-97 Main Estimates
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Vince Steen

Vince Steen Nunakput

Thank you, Madam Chair. My question is on the Baffin, total Baffin, $704,000. I am wondering about that regional office. Is that a new office?

Committee Report 3-13(3): Standing Committee On Resource Management And Development Report On The Review Of The 1996-97 Main Estimates
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The Chair

The Chair Jane Groenewegen

Thank you. Mr. Minister.

Committee Report 3-13(3): Standing Committee On Resource Management And Development Report On The Review Of The 1996-97 Main Estimates
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Stephen Kakfwi

Stephen Kakfwi Sahtu

Thank you, Madam Chair. I understand that we are presently reviewing this item. We are reviewing the possibility of leasing. We are looking at the possibility of improving the present facilities we have or building something new. So it's not yet clear to us exactly what option we will choose. Thank you.

Committee Report 3-13(3): Standing Committee On Resource Management And Development Report On The Review Of The 1996-97 Main Estimates
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Page 439

The Chair

The Chair Jane Groenewegen

Thank you, Mr. Minister. Mr. Steen.

Committee Report 3-13(3): Standing Committee On Resource Management And Development Report On The Review Of The 1996-97 Main Estimates
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Vince Steen

Vince Steen Nunakput

Thank you, Madam Chair. This wouldn't be in preparation for division or Nunavut, would it?

Committee Report 3-13(3): Standing Committee On Resource Management And Development Report On The Review Of The 1996-97 Main Estimates
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 439

The Chair

The Chair Jane Groenewegen

Mr. Kakfwi.

Committee Report 3-13(3): Standing Committee On Resource Management And Development Report On The Review Of The 1996-97 Main Estimates
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 439

Stephen Kakfwi

Stephen Kakfwi Sahtu

Madam Chair, this is just responding to the needs of the staff and field operations. Thank you.

Committee Report 3-13(3): Standing Committee On Resource Management And Development Report On The Review Of The 1996-97 Main Estimates
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 439

The Chair

The Chair Jane Groenewegen

Thank you, Mr. Kakfwi. Mr. Steen.

Committee Report 3-13(3): Standing Committee On Resource Management And Development Report On The Review Of The 1996-97 Main Estimates
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Vince Steen

Vince Steen Nunakput

Madam Chair, is the department needing larger office space or improved office space because they are moving more personnel into the Baffin? What is, all of a sudden, the demand for this office space?

Committee Report 3-13(3): Standing Committee On Resource Management And Development Report On The Review Of The 1996-97 Main Estimates
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The Chair

The Chair Jane Groenewegen

Thank you, Mr. Steen. Mr. Minister.

Committee Report 3-13(3): Standing Committee On Resource Management And Development Report On The Review Of The 1996-97 Main Estimates
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Page 439

Stephen Kakfwi

Stephen Kakfwi Sahtu

Madam Chair, we are just getting around to meeting the needs of Iqaluit. The old office space has outlived its usefulness, and there's a need to upgrade and come up with new facilities for the staff in Iqaluit.

Committee Report 3-13(3): Standing Committee On Resource Management And Development Report On The Review Of The 1996-97 Main Estimates
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 439

The Chair

The Chair Jane Groenewegen

Thank you, Mr. Kakfwi. Mr. Picco.

Committee Report 3-13(3): Standing Committee On Resource Management And Development Report On The Review Of The 1996-97 Main Estimates
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Page 439

Edward Picco Iqaluit

Thank you, Madam Chair. Just to give a little overview for Mr. Steen, the Amarok Hunters and Trappers and Renewable Resources are in an old building. It's an old 521 building and it's really dilapidated.

---Interjection

Committee Report 3-13(3): Standing Committee On Resource Management And Development Report On The Review Of The 1996-97 Main Estimates
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 439

The Chair

The Chair Jane Groenewegen

Order, please.

Committee Report 3-13(3): Standing Committee On Resource Management And Development Report On The Review Of The 1996-97 Main Estimates
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 439

Edward Picco Iqaluit

It's an old building; nothing funny going on.

Committee Report 3-13(3): Standing Committee On Resource Management And Development Report On The Review Of The 1996-97 Main Estimates
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 439

The Chair

The Chair Jane Groenewegen

Thank you for that clarification, Mr. Picco. Mr. Erasmus.

Committee Report 3-13(3): Standing Committee On Resource Management And Development Report On The Review Of The 1996-97 Main Estimates
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 440

Roy Erasmus Yellowknife North

Thank you, Madam Chair. I was just checking my notes and I noticed that Mr. Picco wanted to have more capital projects cut so that we could reduce the deficit. I was wondering if he might want to delete this item from the budget.

Committee Report 3-13(3): Standing Committee On Resource Management And Development Report On The Review Of The 1996-97 Main Estimates
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 440

The Chair

The Chair Jane Groenewegen

That reminds me, Members are free to make motions. We will take a vote. Mr. Kakfwi.

Committee Report 3-13(3): Standing Committee On Resource Management And Development Report On The Review Of The 1996-97 Main Estimates
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 440

Stephen Kakfwi

Stephen Kakfwi Sahtu

Madam Chair, just to draw attention to Members, it isn't to provide office space to Mr. Picco that this project is here. It is to replace the present antiquated office space that the Renewable Resource staff in Iqaluit are using. It is to address their needs that this capital project is on the books at this time.

Committee Report 3-13(3): Standing Committee On Resource Management And Development Report On The Review Of The 1996-97 Main Estimates
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 440

The Chair

The Chair Jane Groenewegen

Thank you, Mr. Kakfwi. Mr. Roland.

Committee Report 3-13(3): Standing Committee On Resource Management And Development Report On The Review Of The 1996-97 Main Estimates
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Page 440

Floyd Roland

Floyd Roland Inuvik

Thank you, Madam Chair. Is this money for a new office building or is it to renovate an existing facility?

Committee Report 3-13(3): Standing Committee On Resource Management And Development Report On The Review Of The 1996-97 Main Estimates
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 440

The Chair

The Chair Jane Groenewegen

Thank you, Mr. Roland. I believe Mr. Steen already asked that question and the Minister did respond. We could ask you to answer that again. Mr. Kakfwi.

Committee Report 3-13(3): Standing Committee On Resource Management And Development Report On The Review Of The 1996-97 Main Estimates
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 440

Stephen Kakfwi

Stephen Kakfwi Sahtu

Madam Chair, just to clarify a misunderstood area, I think I suggested that we might look at renovating the existing office space. I don't think that is an option. We are looking at all our options at this time. Thank you.

Committee Report 3-13(3): Standing Committee On Resource Management And Development Report On The Review Of The 1996-97 Main Estimates
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 440

The Chair

The Chair Jane Groenewegen

Thank you, Mr. Kakfwi. Mr. Henry.

Committee Report 3-13(3): Standing Committee On Resource Management And Development Report On The Review Of The 1996-97 Main Estimates
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Seamus Henry Yellowknife South

Thank you, Madam Chair. Is there something specialized about this type of structure? Did the private market not provide this office space? Thank you.

Committee Report 3-13(3): Standing Committee On Resource Management And Development Report On The Review Of The 1996-97 Main Estimates
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 440

The Chair

The Chair Jane Groenewegen

Thank you, Mr. Henry. Mr. Kakfwi.

Committee Report 3-13(3): Standing Committee On Resource Management And Development Report On The Review Of The 1996-97 Main Estimates
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 440

Stephen Kakfwi

Stephen Kakfwi Sahtu

Madam Chair, I believe we have checked out the option and invited the private sector to look at providing office space for us. I am not certain that anything concrete has come as a result of it.

Committee Report 3-13(3): Standing Committee On Resource Management And Development Report On The Review Of The 1996-97 Main Estimates
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 440

The Chair

The Chair Jane Groenewegen

Thank you. Mr. Ningark.

Committee Report 3-13(3): Standing Committee On Resource Management And Development Report On The Review Of The 1996-97 Main Estimates
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 440

John Ningark Natilikmiot

Thank you, Madam Chair. How does the government determine the buildings and works for the region? Is it based on a needs study or is it based on request? I don't see the Kitikmeot in this area. Thank you.

Committee Report 3-13(3): Standing Committee On Resource Management And Development Report On The Review Of The 1996-97 Main Estimates
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 440

The Chair

The Chair Jane Groenewegen

Thank you, Mr. Ningark. Mr. Kakfwi.

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Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Stephen Kakfwi

Stephen Kakfwi Sahtu

Madam Chair, the capital planning process is based on need, but we are aware that, for other reasons, it is necessary to make sure that long-term capital planning takes a balanced approach between constituencies between East and West, in allocation of capital money. There are some years when it will become obvious that some regions will enjoy millions of dollars worth of capital projects while with others -- as was the case a few years ago with the Mackenzie Delta and the Tu Nedhe riding -- the capital projects amounted to $200,000 or $300,000. So we are aware of it. We are just one department. We respond to needs as they arise. We are trying to deal with some of the issues from the Member's constituency at this time, as he pointed out earlier. I think we are close to resolving that.

Committee Report 3-13(3): Standing Committee On Resource Management And Development Report On The Review Of The 1996-97 Main Estimates
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 440

The Chair

The Chair Jane Groenewegen

Thank you, Mr. Kakfwi. Mr. Ningark.

Committee Report 3-13(3): Standing Committee On Resource Management And Development Report On The Review Of The 1996-97 Main Estimates
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Page 440

John Ningark Natilikmiot

Thank you, Madam Chair. Madam Chair, nothing in the budget of the 1996-97 Main Estimates is slated for the transition of the Nunavut government. This budget only covers the formula financing agreement of this government and the federal government. Thank you.

Committee Report 3-13(3): Standing Committee On Resource Management And Development Report On The Review Of The 1996-97 Main Estimates
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 440

The Chair

The Chair Jane Groenewegen

Thank you, Mr. Ningark. Mr. Kakfwi.

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Stephen Kakfwi

Stephen Kakfwi Sahtu

Madam Chair, it is my understanding that this government will continue building and going into its capital planning processes to meet the normal growing needs of the different communities under the present arrangement of government. Any additional capital requirements required as a result of the implementation and establishment of the Nunavut government will be the direct responsibility of the federal government.

Committee Report 3-13(3): Standing Committee On Resource Management And Development Report On The Review Of The 1996-97 Main Estimates
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Page 440

The Chair

The Chair Jane Groenewegen

Thank you. Mr. Ningark.

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Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 440

John Ningark Natilikmiot

Thank you, Madam Chair. There seems to be an impression of some Members that perhaps the government is covering the needs of Nunavut. I thank the honourable Minister for making that clarification. This is under the present financing arrangement.

Committee Report 3-13(3): Standing Committee On Resource Management And Development Report On The Review Of The 1996-97 Main Estimates
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 440

The Chair

The Chair Jane Groenewegen

Would the Members agree that it is time to recess for much-needed nourishment which has been prepared? We will recess until 6:30.

Committee Report 3-13(3): Standing Committee On Resource Management And Development Report On The Review Of The 1996-97 Main Estimates
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 440

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

--- Agreed

Committee Report 3-13(3): Standing Committee On Resource Management And Development Report On The Review Of The 1996-97 Main Estimates
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 440

The Chair

The Chair Jane Groenewegen

The committee stands adjourned. Thank you.

--- DINNER RECESS

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Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 440

The Chair

The Chair Jane Groenewegen

I will call the committee to order. We are still on detail, buildings and works, Baffin. I have Mr. Henry to speak next.

Committee Report 3-13(3): Standing Committee On Resource Management And Development Report On The Review Of The 1996-97 Main Estimates
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Seamus Henry Yellowknife South

I am just getting advice. My question was answered on the way through. Thank you.

Committee Report 3-13(3): Standing Committee On Resource Management And Development Report On The Review Of The 1996-97 Main Estimates
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 440

The Chair

The Chair Jane Groenewegen

Thank you. Mr. Picco. Do you have a question, Mr. Picco?

Committee Report 3-13(3): Standing Committee On Resource Management And Development Report On The Review Of The 1996-97 Main Estimates
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Edward Picco Iqaluit

Not right now.

Committee Report 3-13(3): Standing Committee On Resource Management And Development Report On The Review Of The 1996-97 Main Estimates
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 441

The Chair

The Chair Jane Groenewegen

Okay. Total region, $704,000.

Committee Report 3-13(3): Standing Committee On Resource Management And Development Report On The Review Of The 1996-97 Main Estimates
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 441

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

--- Agreed

Committee Report 3-13(3): Standing Committee On Resource Management And Development Report On The Review Of The 1996-97 Main Estimates
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 441

The Chair

The Chair Jane Groenewegen

Buildings and works, Keewatin, total region, $334,000.

Committee Report 3-13(3): Standing Committee On Resource Management And Development Report On The Review Of The 1996-97 Main Estimates
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 441

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

--- Agreed

Committee Report 3-13(3): Standing Committee On Resource Management And Development Report On The Review Of The 1996-97 Main Estimates
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 441

The Chair

The Chair Jane Groenewegen

We are on page 9-18. Equipment acquisition, total buildings and works, $1.183 million.

Committee Report 3-13(3): Standing Committee On Resource Management And Development Report On The Review Of The 1996-97 Main Estimates
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 441

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

--- Agreed

Committee Report 3-13(3): Standing Committee On Resource Management And Development Report On The Review Of The 1996-97 Main Estimates
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 441

The Chair

The Chair Jane Groenewegen

Equipment acquisition, headquarters, total region, $28,000.

Committee Report 3-13(3): Standing Committee On Resource Management And Development Report On The Review Of The 1996-97 Main Estimates
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 441

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

--- Agreed

Committee Report 3-13(3): Standing Committee On Resource Management And Development Report On The Review Of The 1996-97 Main Estimates
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 441

The Chair

The Chair Jane Groenewegen

Equipment acquisition, Fort Smith, total region, $64,000.

Committee Report 3-13(3): Standing Committee On Resource Management And Development Report On The Review Of The 1996-97 Main Estimates
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 441

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

--- Agreed

Committee Report 3-13(3): Standing Committee On Resource Management And Development Report On The Review Of The 1996-97 Main Estimates
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 441

The Chair

The Chair Jane Groenewegen

Equipment acquisition, Inuvik, total region, $68,000.

Committee Report 3-13(3): Standing Committee On Resource Management And Development Report On The Review Of The 1996-97 Main Estimates
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 441

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

--- Agreed

Committee Report 3-13(3): Standing Committee On Resource Management And Development Report On The Review Of The 1996-97 Main Estimates
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 441

The Chair

The Chair Jane Groenewegen

Equipment acquisition, Baffin, total region, $94,000.

Committee Report 3-13(3): Standing Committee On Resource Management And Development Report On The Review Of The 1996-97 Main Estimates
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 441

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

--- Agreed

Committee Report 3-13(3): Standing Committee On Resource Management And Development Report On The Review Of The 1996-97 Main Estimates
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The Chair

The Chair Jane Groenewegen

Equipment acquisition, Keewatin, total region, $55,000.

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Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

--- Agreed

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The Chair

The Chair Jane Groenewegen

Equipment acquisition, Kitikmeot, total region, $68,000.

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Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

---Agreed

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The Chair

The Chair Jane Groenewegen

Mr. Ningark.

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John Ningark Natilikmiot

Thank you, Madam Chair. Under the equipment acquisition, Kitikmeot region, mobile equipment; $56,000 is not a lot of money when you talk about various things. What are we getting for this amount? Thank you.

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The Chair

The Chair Jane Groenewegen

Thank you, Mr. Ningark. Mr. Kakfwi.

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Stephen Kakfwi

Stephen Kakfwi Sahtu

Madam Chair, I think when it says "various," it usually means a variety of small capital items. They use chain saws up there, so they are probably restricted to outboard motors and snowmobiles and small capital items like that which are used by the field staff.

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The Chair

The Chair Jane Groenewegen

Thank you, Mr. Kakfwi. Mr. Ningark.

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John Ningark Natilikmiot

I thank the honourable Minister for his response, but I will need a specific itemized paper, if not available today, some time in the next few days. Thank you.

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The Chair

The Chair Jane Groenewegen

Thank you, Mr. Ningark. Mr. Kakfwi.

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Stephen Kakfwi

Stephen Kakfwi Sahtu

Often, as well, it is budgeted just as an item based on the probability of perhaps someone's guess that we will need so many small capital items. Whatever the basis for the allocation is, we would be pleased to share it with the Member.

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The Chair

The Chair Jane Groenewegen

Thank you, Mr. Kakfwi. Equipment acquisition, Kitikmeot, $68,000. Total region, $68,000.

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Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

--- Agreed

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The Chair

The Chair Jane Groenewegen

Total equipment acquisition, $377,000.

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Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

--- Agreed

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The Chair

The Chair Jane Groenewegen

Total activity, $1.56 million.

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Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

--- Agreed

Forest Fire Management

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The Chair

The Chair Jane Groenewegen

Forest fire management, operations and maintenance, total operations and maintenance, $28.13 million. Mr. Erasmus.

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Roy Erasmus Yellowknife North

Thank you, Madam Chair. I was talking with Mr. Picco during the break and he was wondering if he could get a firebreak around Iqaluit this year.

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The Chair

The Chair Jane Groenewegen

Thank you, Mr. Erasmus. Mr. Kakfwi.

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Roy Erasmus Yellowknife North

I am just kidding. What I really wanted to know is, the Minister had indicated in his opening comments that communities may assume authority for initial attack on forest fires and predefined high-valued areas close to communities. I just wondered if he could expand on that a little more, so we could understand better what that means.

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The Chair

The Chair Jane Groenewegen

Mr. Kakfwi.

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Stephen Kakfwi

Stephen Kakfwi Sahtu

Madam Chair, based on last year's budget expenditures for the initial attack phase of firefighting, we estimate that most fires in the initial stage require roughly about $20,000 to fight and put out within a 24-hour period. That is a rough estimate. So what we are offering to communities is, if they wish, they would have authority to spend up to $20,000 for any fire they attack in an agreed-to prescribed area. They have $20,000 to put it out within a 24-hour period. If the 24-hour period lapses and they are still fighting it, we then move in, as a department, and decide with the community what course of action to take after that. If they spend over $20,000, again we come in to decide with them what course of action to take.

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The Chair

The Chair Jane Groenewegen

Thank you. Mr. Erasmus.

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Roy Erasmus Yellowknife North

Regarding the predefined high-valued areas, who will be defining those areas and how will they be defined?

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The Chair

The Chair Jane Groenewegen

Mr. Kakfwi.

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Stephen Kakfwi

Stephen Kakfwi Sahtu

Madam Chair, the department and the communities get together to define the areas. We try to define the areas primarily where the people live and where properties are located, as they move into other areas that are of high value to the community as a whole. It might be certain hunting areas, historic areas, at cetera. Then we agree that there is a fixed limit to the amount of money we are willing to spend in it. It is by agreement and we agree from the beginning that we can't fight all the fires and not all the areas are of equal priority. So once we get to those two things, it becomes manageable to be able to come to a mutually agreed to prescribed area. Even in a prescribed area, we think there are some good habits for us to discuss how and when to fight these fires. Thank you.

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The Chair

The Chair Jane Groenewegen

Thank you. Mr. Picco.

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Edward Picco Iqaluit

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Madam Chair, I think the Minister should be commended for his action with his stand on community response to fighting forest fires. In our Infrastructure committee, we discussed the coordination with EMO and MACA about the construction of firebreaks. There seemed to have been some type of overlap with Renewable Resources and MACA building firebreaks. I wonder if the Minister could inform us what is happening with this overlap and seeming duplication of effort.

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The Chair

The Chair Jane Groenewegen

Thank you, Mr. Picco. Mr. Kakfwi.

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Stephen Kakfwi

Stephen Kakfwi Sahtu

Thank you. I understand that we have come to an agreement with MACA to cost share the firebreak and fire protection program that is offered to communities. We went through the exercise last year of priorizing different communities. For instance, communities like Fort Good Hope were rated as high priority because they are heavily wooded and there are still a lot of trees right through the community. Other communities such as Deline had a lower rating because the trees aren't as thick and as tall as other communities such as Snare Lake. They don't have the types of trees and vegetation that would cause as much fire problems as other communities, That is how they are rated; they are rated on a one-to-four basis. Last year, all of the communities were given money to construct fireguards. Thank you.

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The Chair

The Chair Jane Groenewegen

Thank you, Mr. Kakfwi. Mr. Picco.

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Edward Picco Iqaluit

Thank you, Madam Chair. It seems as though MACA is going to continue to build firebreaks and so is Renewable Resources. Two departments are still going to be at the same thing. This was our concern, our committee felt there would be a duplication of services and a seemingly redundancy, an overplaying of the firebreaks. Has nothing changed? Is this going to continue?

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The Chair

The Chair Jane Groenewegen

Thank you, Mr. Picco. Mr. Kakfwi.

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Stephen Kakfwi

Stephen Kakfwi Sahtu

It is our intent this year to work out an agreement with MACA on how to cost share the same program and complete the program throughout the Mackenzie Valley. Thank you.

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The Chair

The Chair Jane Groenewegen

Thank you, Mr. Kakfwi. Mr. Picco.

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Edward Picco Iqaluit

Does this mean that Renewable Resources will continue to build firebreaks? Through the communities, they will continue to build firebreaks but these will be paid for by MACA funds and the Renewable Resources funds will be cost shared. I still think that's a duplication. This is the problem we heard about from people in our communities who are familiar with firebreaks, they were saving graveyards for example.

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The Chair

The Chair Jane Groenewegen

Thank you, Mr. Picco. Mr. Kakfwi.

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Stephen Kakfwi

Stephen Kakfwi Sahtu

Madam Chair, the way in which the program works is we cost share. Last year, we set aside approximately $700,000 within Renewable Resources with MACA for the fire protection program for the communities. This budget is made available to communities. Communities are advised of it and those communities who put together proposals and initiatives to access this money send it to us and then we approve it and then they bill us and we pay thebill. For instance, if a community says they want to spend $100,000 to build a fireguard, they will use 20 men for X number of days and however else they are going to utilize the money, we agree to it and it's paid. There is, in fact, no duplication of services. It protects the communities. Municipal and Community Affairs' mandate is protected. We also build beyond and outside of municipal boundaries. There is no need to build two lines when you can build one. That is the reason for the joint effort. Thank you.

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The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Forest fire management. Mr. Steen.

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Vince Steen

Vince Steen Nunakput

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Can the Minister indicate which communities in the Inuvik region are eligible for $20,000?

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The Chair John Ningark

Thank you, Mr. Steen. Mr. Kakfwi.

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Stephen Kakfwi

Stephen Kakfwi Sahtu

Mr. Chairman, I'd like to think we can say that all communities which have historically had forest fires in the local vicinity are eligible. It would probably mean that almost all of the communities within the treeline would be eligible.

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The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Mr. Steen.

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Vince Steen

Vince Steen Nunakput

Mr. Chairman, I don't know the specifics of what would qualify as a high priority area. A fair amount of the trapping done in the Tuktoyaktuk area is done in the bush country. The Tuktoyaktuk hunters and trappers have high priority areas with cabins and traplines, which would be of concern and they would be receptive to some form of protection for their investments. I'm sure they would like to be considered for these contributions. Furthermore, in the past years on more than one occasion, we've had tundra and driftwood fires very close to the community of Tuktoyaktuk. This doesn't put any people or property in danger but it does have the ability to shut the airport down due to smoke. This is a concern to the community. I'm sure they'd like to have the ability to attack the tundra fires at an early stage. They burn for quite a distance. I believe the last one burned for a range of four miles. These fires cause problems. In a hot, dry summer, they are very easily started. I'm sure the community would like to be considered for this type of contribution if possible.

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The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Mr. Minister.

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Stephen Kakfwi

Stephen Kakfwi Sahtu

Mr. Chairman, I believe what we should do is perhaps have our staff from the Inuvik region meet with people from within the Member's constituency to discuss this to see if there's any way to come up with suggestions on how to remedy this. Would this be something the Member is interested in at this time?

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The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Mr. Steen.

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Vince Steen

Vince Steen Nunakput

Mr. Chairman, I'm sure my community would be happy to meet with the Minister's staff. I would like him to be aware that, in the past, the community was involved in identifying property, traplines and cabins in the bush country that were of consideration and of concern to the

community hunters and trappers. We have been involved in the past. I'm not sure if your department is still doing this. I wanted to make the Minister aware of this.

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The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Mr. Minister.

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Stephen Kakfwi

Stephen Kakfwi Sahtu

Mr. Chairman, I am aware of it. The government and the department have been working with communities to identify cabins and trapping areas, and areas that are considered of high value to communities over the past number of years. I think because there's a fixed budget, if there's money going to be spent then it's going to be of a limited amount. That is the reason I suggested perhaps some staff can meet with community representatives from the Member's constituency to discuss what they think should be done, and we can talk about the kind of money and programs that we have in place to support communities, Then the community and the department could decide what the best use is of the existing dollars. For instance, we could spend $500,000 fighting fires in a trapping area, but we may be better off to take some of that money and just directly compensate the trapper, rather than spending all that money fighting the fire. At the end of the day, we need to make sure that the community has a say in the allocation of resources. I think, for me, that would be a good start.

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The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Forest fire management. Mr. Steen.

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Vince Steen

Vince Steen Nunakput

Mr. Chairman, the suggestion by the Minister obviously has its merits, but I don't know how a person would look at it that was watching his trapline and his cabin burn up. What value that would be to him? There might be a lifetime of work behind that, but the market value of everything there is very low. So I appreciate what the Minister is saying. Thank you.

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The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Before I recognize Mr. Henry, I would like the Members of this committee to join me in congratulating Mani and Tom Thompson on their 17th wedding anniversary.

--- Applause

I also want to thank Goo for providing that information to me.

--- Laughter

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The Chair John Ningark

Mr. Henry.

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Seamus Henry Yellowknife South

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. In the communities with the program of $20,000 for initial attacks on fire, what agency or body is authorized in the communities to account and be responsible for that money?

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The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Mr. Minister.

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Stephen Kakfwi

Stephen Kakfwi Sahtu

We would leave it to the community to make the proposal. It could be the mayor; it could be the local fire chief; it could be the Metis leader, or it could be a committee of community leaders, chaired byone of them. So we leave it to each community to come forward with a suggestion.

Just to get back to the comment raised by Mr. Steen, there are programs available, for instance, for trappers who are burnt out of their areas such as replacing their cabins, lost equipment to some capacity, plus looking at relocation of trappers. So there are possibilities for doing things that we can discuss with the community. Thank you.

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The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Forest fire management, operations and maintenance, total operations and maintenance, $28.13 million. Agreed?

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Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

--- Agreed

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The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Section 9, page 21, detail of capital, forest fire management, buildings and works, headquarters, total region, $70,000. Mr. Picco.

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Edward Picco Iqaluit

It's going into the next section, Mr. Chairman.

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The Chair John Ningark

Total region is $70,000 for headquarters. Agreed?

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Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

--- Agreed

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The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Buildings and works, Fort Smith, total region, $99,000. Mr. Picco.

--- Interjection

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The Chair John Ningark

Mr. Henry, do you want to go back to headquarters?

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Seamus Henry Yellowknife South

No, I don't want to go back to headquarters.

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The Chair John Ningark

So, Fort Smith, total region. I have Mr. Picco and Mr. Henry. Total region. $99,000. Mr. Picco.

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Edward Picco Iqaluit

Yes, thank you, Mr. Chairman. On the firebase, the heliport relocation in Fort Providence, I note that we are going to spend $20,000 this year. Future years is anticipated at $500,000. What's the reasoning behind relocating the heliport at the fire base in Fort Providence?

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The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Mr. Minister.

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Stephen Kakfwi

Stephen Kakfwi Sahtu

Mr. Chairman, the understanding I have is that the community wants that particular area for other purposes. The existing heliport or landing sites of helicopters are within the community, so we have to relocate.

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The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Mr. Picco.

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Edward Picco Iqaluit

Mr. Chairman, why does the community want the heliport relocated? Are they going to use the space for a playground or a park, or is it interfering with life or limb?

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The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Mr. Minister.

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Stephen Kakfwi

Stephen Kakfwi Sahtu

I think it's a headache left over from the days when government used land as they wished in a lot of the small communities. A lot of the communities have doubled or tripled in size in the last 10 years, so we are sort of bursting at the seams. This present site is not safe for the public so they want the helicopter pads relocated further away from the community.

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The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Fort Smith, total region, $99,000. Mr. Picco.

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Edward Picco Iqaluit

By spending the $20,000 this year, what's anticipated there? Are you just going to cut some wood so you can make a space for it somewhere else, or what's the plan there?

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The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Mr. Minister.

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Stephen Kakfwi

Stephen Kakfwi Sahtu

I understand it's planning money.

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The Chair John Ningark

Okay. Thank you. Total region. Mr. Picco.

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Edward Picco Iqaluit

How far from Fort Providence will the heliport now be relocated because I would assume -- having put this money forward and having identified money in previous years -- you have picked a location.

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The Chair John Ningark

(Translation) Thank you.

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Stephen Kakfwi

Stephen Kakfwi Sahtu

Seven miles.

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The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Fort Smith, total region. Mr. Henry.

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Seamus Henry Yellowknife South

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Could the Minister inform me what a satellite base is? I see there's something being built here or moved or whatever.

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The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Mr. Minister.

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Stephen Kakfwi

Stephen Kakfwi Sahtu

Mr. Chairman, satellite base means satellites of base camps. We have facilities out at Stewart Lake where we house fire crews for certain high-risk periods of time so that the response time is diminished. Stewart Lake is between 50 and 70 miles out, towards the mountains, outside of Tulita. There is a base camp there owned by Renewable Resources. That's what the money is going to be used for.

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The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Total region is $99,000. Mr. Henry.

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Seamus Henry Yellowknife South

Are the satellite bases living accommodations?

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The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Mr. Minister.

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Stephen Kakfwi

Stephen Kakfwi Sahtu

Madam ... sorry.

--- Laughter I should have looked. Mr. Chairman, this particular satellite base camp, as you would call it, is simply tent frames for the crew's sleeping quarters; what is, I believe, a metal storage shed for keeping equipment out of the reach of bears, and cook shacks. It's mostly canvas-covered, stick-built frames. Thank you.

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The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Total region, $99,000. Agreed?

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Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

--- Agreed

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The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Buildings and works, Inuvik, total region, $140,000. Agreed?

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Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

--- Agreed

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The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Total buildings and works, $309,000.

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Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

--- Agreed

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The Chair John Ningark

Equipment acquisition, headquarters, total region, $312,000.

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Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

--- Agreed

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The Chair John Ningark

Total equipment acquisition, $312,000.

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Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

--- Agreed

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The Chair John Ningark

Page 9-22, detail of capital, forest fire management, total activity, $621,000. Agreed?

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Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

--- Agreed

Forest Management

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The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Page 9-23, forest management, operations and maintenance, total operations and maintenance, $765,000. Agreed?

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Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

--- Agreed

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The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Flip the page over; continuation of forest management, equipment acquisition, Fort Smith, total region, $6,000. Agreed?

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Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

---Agreed

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The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Total equipment acquisition, $6,000.

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Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

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The Chair John Ningark

Total activity is $6,000.

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Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

--- Agreed

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The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Detail of grants and contributions, grants, $3.915 million. Mr. Henry.

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Seamus Henry Yellowknife South

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I notice on the page you have disaster compensation on there twice; one for $300,000 and one for $15,000. What's the difference? Why are they not together?

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The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Mr. Minister.

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Stephen Kakfwi

Stephen Kakfwi Sahtu

Mr. Chairman, under conservation education and resource development, the first item listed is disaster compensation. This is the amount of $15,000. This is allocated to assist trappers who, for instance, lose equipment because of natural disasters other then forest fires. You look at loss of a sled because of ice break-up, or boats or skidoos.

Under forest fire management, the $300,000 is allocated to replacement cost of cabins and equipment that trappers lose as a result of fires. It's cheaper to replace cabins than to protect them. For instance, I think there have been occasions when cabins have had the protection of fire bombers, and everything is burnt for miles around except the cabin. It becomes of almost no value to anybody.

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The Chair John Ningark

In other words, no wildlife can live around that cabin. Thank you. Mr. Steen.

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Vince Steen

Vince Steen Nunakput

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I wonder if the Minister could clarify whether or not this would include a natural disaster. Is a grizzly bear considered a natural disaster?

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The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Mr. Minister.

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Stephen Kakfwi

Stephen Kakfwi Sahtu

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. We haven't defined a grizzly bear that way yet, or the actions the grizzly bear engages in.

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The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Mr. Steen.

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Vince Steen

Vince Steen Nunakput

Mr. Chairman, with the introduction of quotas on grizzly bears in my region, there have been more and more problems with grizzly bears wrecking trappers' cabins and property. I am wondering about the wildlife services. What do they have in place for compensating trappers for this problem with the overabundance of grizzlies now? Is there some program in place that would assist trappers topossibly protect their cabins, like electrified fences or whatever?

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The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Mr. Minister.

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Stephen Kakfwi

Stephen Kakfwi Sahtu

Mr. McLeod will take the question.

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The Chair John Ningark

Mr. McLeod.

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McLeod

Thank you. The preference of the department has been to work with harvesters and people in communities to focus on bear safety. We have been very successful in a number of communities to have electric fences and so on for bear deterrents; and in some communities where bears would be disposed of because of nuisance, we don't have those problems anymore. Our approach has been to deal with bear safety programs. We have developed handbooks and information that's available to people in the communities.

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The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Grants. Mr. Steen.

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Vince Steen

Vince Steen Nunakput

Mr. Chairman, in the past number of years, the hunters and trappers have been trying to deal with this problem; in particular, in Tuk. I think the department advised them that they would have to use the monies given to them in the form of a grant. This grant was not particularly meant for this purpose, and it's really cutting into the purpose of the grant in order to compensate those people who have wrecked cabins. I have no problem myself designating a grizzly bear a natural disaster. I have had problems with them myself. I think that what I am suggesting here is, would the department consider possibly approaching my community and seeing if they could help with this problem and possibly use even one of their experiments regarding electric fences. Whether those are available to the members of the hunters' and trappers' associations, I don't know this type of stuff. But maybe the department could make the community aware of how you get these experimental electric fences and that type of information.

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The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Mr. Minister.

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Stephen Kakfwi

Stephen Kakfwi Sahtu

Mr. Chairman, I was able to go to the community of Tuktoyaktuk to have meetings with the hunters and trappers of the community. We have a few interests here. We want to make sure grizzly bears aren't wiped out because they are destroying private property. We want to make sure the trappers don't suffer undue hardship as a result of the activities of grizzly bears. We want to come up with some solutions with the community on how to approach those two and balance them out together. Thank you.

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The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Grants, Mr. Steen.

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Vince Steen

Vince Steen Nunakput

I would just like to thank the Minister.

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The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Grants, Mr. Erasmus.

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Roy Erasmus Yellowknife North

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Under the disaster compensation with forest fire management, would that include a forest fire that was caused by a human being?

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The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Mr. Minister.

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Stephen Kakfwi

Stephen Kakfwi Sahtu

Mr. Chairman, I was just wondering if it might be the trapper's uncle or something. If there is a motive here or a suspect, then it would be seen as such. I am not sure how to respond to that. Usually, officers go out with the trappers when trappers suffer difficulties as a result of forest fires. It is on inspection with renewable resource officers that these things are reported, documented and brought to the deputy minister for action.

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The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Mr. Erasmus.

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Roy Erasmus Yellowknife North

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I am sorry. I didn't mean that to sound like a trick question. I was just wondering how technical you are going to be. If it is actually set by a human being, whether it is by accident or on purpose, then it isn't a natural disaster. A natural disaster would be an earthquake or a flood. That was the reason I was asking.

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The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. An act of God and an act of a human being are two different things. Mr. Minister.

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Stephen Kakfwi

Stephen Kakfwi Sahtu

Mr. Chairman, I hope we aren't using the word "natural" as an adjective to define disaster. If I was, I shouldn't have been. If it is in there, it shouldn't be. I agree, if it is accidental, then there is really no reason to look for punitive measures. Thank you.

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The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Details of grants and contributions, Mr. Picco.

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Edward Picco Iqaluit

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Moving away from disasters and natural disasters, what type of checks and balances do we have in place to ensure that the grants, as stated, don't go to O and M or some other program when they are given to the different groups that are listed?

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The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Mr. Minister.

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Stephen Kakfwi

Stephen Kakfwi Sahtu

Mr. Chairman, lots of goodwill and taking the good word of community leaders. We also think there is still a lot of value in signed agreements and a good handshake. We do actually sign agreements. They agree to certain conditions and that is what we adhere to. Thank you.

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The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Grants. Mr. Picco.

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Edward Picco Iqaluit

You know the saying about the road paved with good intentions. In these fiscally-hard times, I think the onus is on this government to make sure we get the most bang for our buck. I would request that the Minister and the department put some type of check and balance in place to make sure that in actuality when we give grants, they are used with a stated purpose. I do know that, at certain times, money may be used as a stop-gap measure for things that they weren't made for. We need some type of check and balance. It seems loose to me to just be hoping.

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The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. I believe that was just a point you wanted to make.

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Edward Picco Iqaluit

I am asking the Minister that maybe over the next few months some type of program can be put in place to ensure checks and balances in the grants and contributions.

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The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Mr. Minister.

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Stephen Kakfwi

Stephen Kakfwi Sahtu

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Just a remark for the chair. Phrases like "bang for the buck" is considered to be demeaning and sexist by a good portion of our public. I use it on occasion and other Members of the Legislature have as well, but I think it is time to address it. Perhaps the chair could speak to it at some point and decide whether or not it is an acceptable phrase to use in this Legislature.

I take the Member's comments very well. We believe that by trusting community leaders and groups to carry out work on our behalf, to take grants in order to carry out certain activities is making the best use of our limited dollars. Trust is a valuable commodity and it is very expensive for us and cumbersome for the communities as well if we start insisting on a number of reports and we check on them monthly and quarterly. As much as we can, we try to limit it. We also don't get into the business of giving grants and contributions where it appears dubious or where there is a question of credibility, stability or efficiency. Thank you.

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The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. We will review the Hansard and determine whether the terms and words used by the honourable Member were acceptable. Mr. Picco.

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Edward Picco Iqaluit

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, I do apologize for that flippant remark if it has offended anyone out there in the listening audience. I think people who know me know that I wouldn't try to demean any person by race, creed, colour, sex or whatever. I apologize for that.

I still go back to my earlier statement. I understand what the honourable Member is saying and I know Mr. Kakfwi is a very honourable man. We have $3.915 million in grants and I still think that trust can only go so far. I honestly believe that we have to have some type of process in place. I'll speak to the chair of the Resource Management committee to see what we can do to help put something in line. I don't think we can go by trust.

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The Chair John Ningark

Thank you, Mr. Picco. Grants, $3.915 million. Mr. Miltenberger.

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Michael Miltenberger

Michael Miltenberger Thebacha

A point of clarification, Mr. Chairman. Could the Minister or deputy minister ... Is the Department of Renewable Resources obligated to follow the conditions outlined under the Financial Administration Act for the dispensation of public through grants and contributions?

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The Chair John Ningark

Mr. Minister. do you want the deputy minister to respond?

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Stephen Kakfwi

Stephen Kakfwi Sahtu

Because it is public funds we have to adhere to the Financial Administration Act.

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The Chair John Ningark

Grants, $3.915 million.

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Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

--- Agreed

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The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Section 9, page 26, contributions, $4.405 million. Agreed?

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Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

--- Agreed

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The Chair John Ningark

Total department, $8.319 million. Agreed?

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Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

--- Agreed

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The Chair John Ningark

Merci. Information item, page 9, task 27, fur marketing surveys, revolving fund. Agreed?

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Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

--- Agreed

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The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Detail of work performed on behalf of third parties, total department $3.381 million. Agreed?

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Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

--- Agreed

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The Chair John Ningark

Program summary, Renewable Resources, operations and maintenance, total $55-101 million. Agreed?

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Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

--- Agreed

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The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Capital, total $2.272 million. Agreed?

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Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

--- Agreed

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The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Total expenditures, $57.373 million. Agreed?

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Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

--- Agreed

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The Chair John Ningark

Do we agree that this department is concluded?

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Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

--- Agreed

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The Chair John Ningark

On behalf of the committee, I would like to thank the honourable Minister and his witnessfor appearing before us. What is the wish of the committee? Mr. Erasmus.

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Roy Erasmus Yellowknife North

It is our wish to continue with the Department of Transportation, Mr. Chairman.

Department of Transportation

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The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. The Department of Transportation is on page 8, task 9. The Minister responsible for this department is Mr. Antoine. Mr. Antoine, do you have opening remarks?

Minister's Introductory Remarks

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Jim Antoine Nahendeh

Mr. Chairman, Members of the Legislative Assembly, I am pleased to present you with the Department of Transportation's O and M and capital budget for the 1996-97 main estimates.

The department's projected expenditures for 1996-97 are $101.3 million consisting of $59.3 million in its operations and maintenance budget and $42 million in the capital program. Compared to the department's expenditures in 1995-96, this is a $1.9 million reduction in O and M and a $3.3 million reduction in capital for a net budget reduction of $5.2 million.

I want to emphasize that Members of the Resource Management and Development committee played an important role in shaping the budget we are considering today. In a spirit of goodwill and cooperation in difficult times, I have accepted and incorporated all of the committee's recommendations in this budget.

On the issue of division, the Department of Transportation was well along in planning for its resource requirements following division. Further preparations for division are on hold until the implications of the federal government's recent announcement on the incremental funding available for division have been more fully considered.

Over and above its original target, the committee asked the Department of Transportation to cut an additional $2.5 million from its budget for this year. This made it necessary to eliminate some projects. Several projects were scaled down in size and the work on others phased in over a number of years.

Since the Rankin Inlet tank farm project is on hold until the Keewatin Resupply Steering Committee has made its recommendations, I am proposing that the tanker moorings be deferred until 1997 and, in its place, a number of community wharves and local access road projects be advanced to 1996-97.

I want to say that directing the reductions in the department's budget has not been an easy or pleasant task, especially when I consider the impacts that go beyond the department. Over two-thirds of the Department of Transportation's expenditures are made through contracts with parties outside the department. The department itself directly employs over 300 people. Contract expenditures from the department's O and M budget alone, not counting

the employment generated through its capital program, indirectly employs another 200 people. The budget reductions have resulted in the elimination of 29 positions within the department. I know the reductions will result in similar losses outside the department, but I have no way of determining the exact impacts.

In the Agenda for Change, the Premier presented the priorities of this government for securing the financial future of the Northwest Territories, improving our quality of life and making new economic opportunities for northerners. In his Budget Address, the Minister of Finance spoke of the importance of partnerships in pursuing opportunities for our economic development. Mr. Chairman, the Department of Transportation has much to contribute in achieving these directions. Despite the fiscal cutbacks, I see many opportunities for the department to advance our economic development in partnerships with other stakeholders with whom we share common objectives.

Our economy, quite literally, moves on our transportation system. Building the transportation system we need in the Northwest Territories is a long-term project that we will accomplish by working at it steadily, one small piece at a time. In the details of a single budget year, we must never lose sight of the mature transportation system and the prosperous northern economy that remain our true goal over the long haul. As a government and a department, putting our financial affairs in order might slow us down but our goal and direction remains the same.

Mr. Chairman, I think this is the larger and more positive context in which we should look at the Department of Transportation's budget for 1996-97. On this note, I would be pleased to go through it with the Members. Mahsi, Mr. Chairman.

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The Chair John Ningark

Thank you, Mr. Minister. The committee that reviewed the particular department will make opening remarks. Mr. O'Brien.

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Kevin O'Brien Kivallivik

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

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Kevin O'Brien Kivallivik

Standing Committee On Resource Management And Development Comments

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Kevin O'Brien Kivallivik

It is my pleasure to present the comments of the Standing Committee on Resource Management and Development regarding the Department of Transportation.

The committee supported a number of reductions brought forward by the department. The majority of these come from restructuring or reworking existing contracts. Included in this list are airport contracts for Cambridge Bay, Iqaluit, Resolute Bay; highway contracts for the Fort Simpson and

'-Wrigley area; and, the ferry contract in Fort Providence. In addition to this, the committee supports staffing cuts at regional airports in Fort Smith, Inuvik and Cambridge Bay.

Overall Budget

The committee recognized that this department's budget made up almost 50 per cent of the entire resource management envelope, but felt that Transportation did not go far enough in reducing its overall bottom line. To that end, the committee recommended that the Department of Transportation cut an additional $2.5 million from its overall 1996-97 budget. The department responded by cutting $677,000 from operations and maintenance costs and $1.823 million from capital spending.

Rankin Inlet Tank Farm

The Members noted that this project had been placed "on hold" until such time as the Keewatin Resupply Steering Committee could complete its review and provide recommendations to the government.

With this project on hold, the committee was surprised to see a $900,000 capital project for deep sea tanker moorings in Rankin Inlet in the department's 1996-97 main estimates. When questioned in April 1996, the Minister explained that this project was in fact "on hold' and that a plan was being developed to defer the tanker mooring project to 1997-98. In its place, the department planned to advance a number of smaller projects scheduled for 1997-98 to 1996-97. The committee agreed with this swap and felt that this option would make the best use of resources while waiting for the report of the Keewatin Resupply Steering Committee.

Mr. Chairman, the committee was pleased to see that the Minister did take the request of the committee seriously and did put these changes in place. I appreciate that.

The committee, therefore, recommends that the $900,000 Rankin Inlet deep sea tanker moorings project be deleted from the Department of Transportation's 1996-97 main estimates and replaced with the following: construct community wharf project, Arviat, $250,000; harbour enhancements, Iqaluit and Apex, $200,000; access road, Nahanni Butte, $200,000; access road, Baker Lake, $100,000; access road, various communities, $150,000.

Division

In its initial review, the committee recommended that the department not proceed with the planned transfer of PYs to Nunavut until incremental cost negotiations were finalized with the federal government. The department responded by stating that no substantial costs would be incurred until negotiations were completed. The committee was concerned with this statement and questioned what amount the department considered as substantial. The committee, therefore, recommended that the Department of Transportation not incur any costs related to the transfer of PYs to Nunavut until negotiations are completed with the federal government.

That concludes the remarks of the Standing Committee on Resource Management and Development on the Department of Transportation. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

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The Chair John Ningark

Thank you, Mr. O'Brien. The process allows for general comments. Before I go into that, I would like to ask the Minister if he wishes to bring in the witnesses. Mr. Minister.

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Jim Antoine Nahendeh

Yes.

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The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Sergeant-at-Arms, please bring in the witnesses.

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Jim Antoine Nahendeh

I don't know if they are here.

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The Chair John Ningark

Do we agree that the Minister will bring in the witnesses?

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Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

--- Agreed

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The Chair John Ningark

Thank you.

Welcome to the committee. For the record, Mr. Minister, will you please introduce the witnesses?

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Jim Antoine Nahendeh

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I have with me the assistant deputy minister of Transportation, Bruce Rattray; and, Masood Hassan, director of transportation planning.

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The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. General comments. We are reviewing the Department of Transportation. Do you want to get into detail?

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Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

--- Agreed

Line By Line

Corporate Services

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The Chair John Ningark

Corporate services, operations and maintenance, total operations and maintenance, $7.948 million.

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Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

--- Agreed

Ferries

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The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Ferries, operations and maintenance, total region, total operations and maintenance, $3.95 million. Agreed?

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Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

--- Agreed

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The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. On page 8-12, detail of capital, ferries, buildings and works, Fort Smith, total region, $618,000.

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Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

--- Agreed

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The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Total buildings and works, $618,000.

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Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

--- Agreed

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The Chair John Ningark

Equipment acquisition, Fort Smith, total region, $20,000.

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Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

--- Agreed

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The Chair John Ningark

Equipment acquisition, Inuvik, total region, $20,000. Agreed?

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Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

--- Agreed

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The Chair John Ningark

Total equipment acquisition, $40,000. Agreed?

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Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

--- Agreed

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The Chair John Ningark

Total activity, $658,000.

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Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

--- Agreed

Highways

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The Chair John Ningark

Page 8-13, highways, operations and maintenance, total operations and maintenance, $17.446 million. Agreed?

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Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

--- Agreed

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The Chair John Ningark

Detail of capital, highways, buildings and works, headquarters, total region, $955,000. Agreed?

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Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

--- Agreed

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The Chair John Ningark

Buildings and works, Fort Smith, total region, $16.94 million. Agreed?

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Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

--- Agreed

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The Chair John Ningark

Mr. Miltenberger.

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Michael Miltenberger

Michael Miltenberger Thebacha

I am sorry to interrupt the blinding speed of the approval of this department, but I would like to ask a question if no one minds. Under Fort Smith, Mr. Chairman, I was wondering if the Minister could indicate on the two large items of $6.9 million and $5 million. Where exactly is that on the road system?

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The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. In the Nunavut area. Mr. Minister.

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Jim Antoine Nahendeh

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. The two areas that the honourable Member is enquiring about is on Highway 3, kilometre zero to kilometre 154. This is the area from the Fort Providence junction and Highway 1 and on the way towards Edzo past Fort Providence, about mid-way.

The other section is Highway 3, starting off at kilometre 154 to kilometre 243. This is a continuation of the other section up to the Edzo area. Thank you.

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The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Fort Smith region, Mr. Miltenberger.

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Michael Miltenberger

Michael Miltenberger Thebacha

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Could the Minister indicate how much of that road will be left unpaved, from Rae to Yellowknife?

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The Chair John Ningark

Thank you, Mr. Miltenberger. Mr. Minister.

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Jim Antoine Nahendeh

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Presently, there is a 70-kilometre section that is unpaved and the plan for this year is to do four different sections. Mr. Chairman, there are plans to do some more reconstruction on paving. On the section between kilometre zero to 154, there is a 23-kilometre section that is to be done. In the other section from kilometre 154 to 243, there are two sections to be done, one is a 2 1 -kilometre section and that's it. The total is about 43 kilometres to be done this year. Thank you.

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The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Mr. Miltenberger.

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Michael Miltenberger

Michael Miltenberger Thebacha

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I haven't travelled the road to Yellowknife for a few years. How much is paved -- I don't quite follow all these kilometres -everything but 70 kilometres?

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The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Mr. Minister.

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Jim Antoine Nahendeh

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Once the work is done this year, there will be about 37 kilometres left to do.

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The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Total region, $16.94 million.

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Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

--- Agreed

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The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Buildings and works, Inuvik, total region, $3.5 million. Agreed?

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Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

--- Agreed

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The Chair John Ningark

Mr. Roland.

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Floyd Roland

Floyd Roland Inuvik

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. On a clarification, winter road improvements, Mackenzie Highway, various, Inuvik region, what area is that?

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The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Mr. Minister.

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Jim Antoine Nahendeh

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. The winter roads, various, is in the budget as the section Norman Wells and south. The idea there is to try to upgrade some of the river crossings that have been causing us some problems over the last few years with the environmental issues that come into that area. Thank you.

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The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Total region, $3.5 million.

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Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

--- Agreed

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The Chair John Ningark

Total buildings and works, $21.395 million. Mr. Roland.

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Floyd Roland

Floyd Roland Inuvik

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Before we go through this area, in the Minister's statement he had made a remark of where we are building our transportation system to our economy; build it one piece at a time. I would just like to throw in a little thing here. We are building access roads and so on and paving existing roads that are there. Is there any time in the future where we will be looking towards possibly heading the highway up further north, direct from Yellowknife? The northern end of the NWT and Inuvik is linked to the Yukon.

Mr. Chairman, I feel it is an important part of what is to come with division and the western NWT, or what is left, to have a solid link. We are building roads in different areas and paving others. I wonder if it is time to start thinking of changing our focus to make the Western Territory more united. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

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The Chair John Ningark

Thank you, Mr. Roland. Mr. Minister.

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Jim Antoine Nahendeh

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. The issue of building new highways is always a big concern to a lot of people down the Mackenzie Valley. Being a resident of Fort Simpson myself, I certainly would like to see a highway system eventually. At the present time, any new highway system is the responsibility of the federal government. There is zero dollars in their budget, yet they have that responsibility. The responsibility the department has is to maintain and upgrade the existing systems that we have. The ACCESS road program started off as a small program to assist small communities accessing the area outside the communities. It has been a very successful program in the last few years that has been utilized. There are more and more requests for that particular program. The desire is to look at ways and long-term views of how we could try to develop this infrastructure. The view that I take is we need to develop our infrastructure in the North if we are going to develop our economy. This is the direction that we would like to go as a department.

However, we are short of resources. What we have to do collectively, is to try to find innovative ways of trying to achieve this in the long term. The statement that I made in the opening remarks is to try to set some sort of a focus on what we want to do. We need to develop a transportation strategy. There has been a transportation strategy in place for some time now. In the last government, the department upgraded it a few times to make it relevant at the time. We have to do the same thing here now and look at our transportation system, look at our transportation strategy and see how we could plan for trying to achieve what we would like to do in the future. With the fiscal restraint that we are under and with impeding resource development at our doorsteps, we have to try to find different ways to make this happen.

So I agree with the honourable Member that we have to start looking in that direction. Thank you.

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The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Mr. Roland.

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Floyd Roland

Floyd Roland Inuvik

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Just a little more than that. Is there any work going on now with the federal government, or any talks at all about trying to improve the situation?

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The Chair John Ningark

Mr. Minister.

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Jim Antoine Nahendeh

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. The department officials are always trying to find ways with their counterparts in the federal government to see how we could try to gain access to any type of resources that we could. It's an ongoing process and there's nothing that is really big in the near future. The direction of the department is to try to find ways to get the resources that we need from the federal government. We also have to look at partnerships in the North with not only government, but we have to start looking at partnerships with industries, as well. What we plan to do in the department is try to develop a transportation strategy on how to try to accomplish that.

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The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Total buildings and works, $21.395 million. Agreed? Mr. Erasmus.

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Roy Erasmus Yellowknife North

Highway 3, 243 to 333; is that the highway between Yellowknife and Fort Rae?

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The Chair John Ningark

Mr. Minister.

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Jim Antoine Nahendeh

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Yes, Highway 3, kilometre 243 to kilometre 333, is the highway between Rae-Edzo and Yellowknife.

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The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Highways. Mr. Erasmus.

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Roy Erasmus Yellowknife North

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I just noticed that -- please indulge me; I'm a little bit slow sometimes -- in future years anticipated, there is zero dollars there. Does

that mean that there's not going to be any work done on that highway between Yellowknife and Rae?

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The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Mr. Minister.

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Jim Antoine Nahendeh

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. This particular section is in the five-year capital plan, and we would like to have some funding in place this year of $100,000 to do some preliminary work, as well as next year, 1997-98, and in 1998-99, there is a substantial amount in the budget of about $12 million. So in the upcoming years, this is the plan that we have. That is in the plans of the department at the present time. Thank you.

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The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Mr. Erasmus.

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Roy Erasmus Yellowknife North

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I was just wondering, shouldn't that be shown under future years, or is it just not definite yet?

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The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Mr. Minister.

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Jim Antoine Nahendeh

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I am told that the way these documents are put in place, it wouldn't show in this year's capital estimates but it would show in the following year.

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The Chair John Ningark

Total buildings and works, $21.395 million. Mr. Henry.

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Seamus Henry Yellowknife South

I asked a question during, I believe, the Health segment of the budget about the definition of future years anticipated. My understanding of what was said then was that was for funding in a period of five years. Is that not correct for this department?

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The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Mr. Minister, clarification.

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Stephen Kakfwi

Stephen Kakfwi Sahtu

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. The way the department deals with this is if a huge contract is issued on a multi-year basis, then it would show in this current year as well as in the future years anticipated. The amount that shows right now is to do some preliminary work and it's not part of a multi-year contract and is not shown.

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The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Mr. Henry.

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Seamus Henry Yellowknife South

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I realize you did mention it earlier, but what are the amounts over the next five years that are going to be spent on that particular one, if you would, please?

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The Chair John Ningark

Qujannamiik, mahsi, merci.

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Jim Antoine Nahendeh

Mr. Chairman, the way that it's in the year is that in 1996-97, we have $100,000, and in the following year of 1997-98, we have $100,000. There are then substantial amounts that go out into the future years, but for 1998-99, 1 did say there was $12.995 million in there.

I just want to add that, in developing this budget, this particular section was originally planned to have the bulk of the work done, not in this fiscal year but in the next fiscal year; but, because of the budgeting, we moved this particular item back an extra year to try to accommodate the type of budget that was being requested. Thank you.

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The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Mr. Henry.

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Seamus Henry Yellowknife South

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. That portion of highway in the Northwest Territories between Fort Rae and Yellowknife is a well-travelled road in the Northwest Territories. How does that rank for usage compared to other portions?

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The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Mr. Minister.

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Jim Antoine Nahendeh

Thank you. The section between Rae-Edzo and Yellowknife, I understand, is the most highly utilized section of the highway system in the Northwest Territories. Thank you.

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The Chair John Ningark

Mr. Henry.

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Seamus Henry Yellowknife South

In the last five years, which portion of highway would have had the most fatalities in the last five years? Would it be fair to say that that portion of highway in the NWT has?

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The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Mr. Minister.

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Jim Antoine Nahendeh

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. That section of the highway has its share of accidents, not because it's a dangerous section of the road or anything; there is a percentage of it that happens in that area. If the honourable Member would like that, we would try to get the specific statistics on the accidents and provide that information at a later time.

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The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Total buildings and works is $21.395 million. Agreed?

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Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

--- Agreed

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The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Equipment acquisition, headquarters, total region, $750,000. Agreed?

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Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

--- Agreed

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The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Total equipment acquisition, $750,000. Agreed?

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Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

--- Agreed

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The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Total activity, $22.145 million. Agreed?

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Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

--- Agreed Airports

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The Chair John Ningark

Airports, operations and maintenance, total operations and maintenance, $27.254 million. Agreed?

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Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

--- Agreed

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The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Page 17, section 8, detail of capital, airports, buildings and works, headquarters, total region, $445,000. Agreed?

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Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

--- Agreed

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The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Buildings and works, Fort Smith, total region, $1.145 million. Agreed?

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Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

--- Agreed

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The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Buildings and works, Inuvik, total region, $1.799 million. Mr. Steen.

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Vince Steen

Vince Steen Nunakput

Mr. Chairman, could the Minister explain why the Sachs Harbour terminal building was cut to $20,000 per year from last year's budget figure?

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The Chair John Ningark

Thank you, Mr. Minister.

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Jim Antoine Nahendeh

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I am going to ask Mr. Rattray to respond and provide detail.

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The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Mr. Rattray.

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Rattray

Mr. Chairman, the original scope of the work called for a complete rehab of the building. When we put the contract out for tender last year, the prices came in so high that it didn't make sense to do the work. We've identified a much smaller scope of work, some immediate repairs which are required to the building. We're going to phase those over the next three years, using predominantly local residents to complete the work. We currently have about $20,000 a year for the next three years programmed to deal with those issues.

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The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Airports, Mr. Steen.

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Vince Steen

Vince Steen Nunakput

Mr. Chairman, does the Minister feel he would have accomplished just as much with the lower figures in the budget over what he had in last year's budget, bearing in mind he used local employment or contractors?

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The Chair John Ningark

Mr. Minister.

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Jim Antoine Nahendeh

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. This is part of the budgeting exercise the department went through; this is a result of the process we went through. We had to look at all of the different projects. In taking a closer look at this project, as the assistant deputy minister has said, this was scaled down from the original tenders. The prices came in very high. As a result of that, the department decided to do this project and phase it over three years to encourage local involvement by having the work scheduled in a manageable amount each year. We feel this will probably provide more income to the community and, at the same time, the type of repairs required to rehab the air terminal building would be satisfactory. Thank you.

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The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Airports, Mr. Steen.

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Vince Steen

Vince Steen Nunakput

I understand the Minister is saying the end result would be the same, although the cost would be less. This is commendable if it can be accomplished. If the overall figure in last year's five-year capital plan was a fair amount more than what is in this year's, is it realistic to assume that we are going to accomplish the same end result with this terminal building? In other words, what level are we going to bring it up to with X number of dollars?

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The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Mr. Minister.

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Jim Antoine Nahendeh

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. In Sachs Harbour, this particular air terminal was deemed to be too small to meet the demands of the traffic and it was expected to be expanded. However, when the planning and the design for this expansion and rehab was cost out, it was deemed that the cost was too high for the anticipated scope of the work which would be needed. As a result, we are looking at rehab of this building and trying to extend its life for a few more years until we take another look at it. Thank you.

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The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Airports, Mr. Steen.

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Vince Steen

Vince Steen Nunakput

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. In the document given to us, the present five-year capital plan identifies $20,000 for three years. I notice that future years anticipated are zero. What is the difference?

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The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Mr. Minister.

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Jim Antoine Nahendeh

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. This particular project has $20,000 for this current year and $20,000 has been put in the budget for the next two years. This is what we have in the current budget for this particular project. Thank you.

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The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Inuvik region, Mr. Steen.

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Vince Steen

Vince Steen Nunakput

I understand the Minister is saying that future years show a figure rather than nothing. Is this correct?

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The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Mr. Minister.

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Jim Antoine Nahendeh

The future years should be $40,000. I am told by officials that the $20,000 is approved every year. It is not part of the multi-year projects. It has to come up every year for approval. That is why it is not shown in the future years anticipated in this particular document. If you look at the five-year capital plans, it is in there. It's not in the main estimates because it has to be approved every year.

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The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Buildings and works, Inuvik, total region, $1.799 million. Agreed?

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Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

--- Agreed

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The Chair John Ningark

Mr. Rabesca.

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James Rabesca North Slave

Mr. Chairman, I have a question for the Minister regarding the Fort Smith region under buildings and works. It is regarding the new airport development in Snare Lakes. What does this refer to, what type of work?

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The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Does the committee agree to go back to the Fort Smith region? Agreed?

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Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

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The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Mr. Minister.

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Jim Antoine Nahendeh

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. This particular program is the finishing up of the new airport development in Snare Lake. This is to finish off cleaning up the site and also finishing off the air terminal facility in that area of the airport.

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The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Fort Smith region, Mr. Rabesca.

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James Rabesca North Slave

I had a delegation in from Snare Lake this afternoon. They were trying to discuss something to do with the road connecting to the airport. It's not wide enough. They want to ask the Minister if the road could be widened and if there's anything anticipated in the budget for future years.

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The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Mr. Minister.

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Jim Antoine Nahendeh

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. This particular new airport development project does not include the widening of the road. What the honourable Member is asking is something which is separate and different from this particular project. This seems to be something which we should deal with with the honourable Member. This should be discussed to see exactly what the community would like to do with regard to the road. Thank you.

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The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Fort Smith. Agreed. Should we move to page 8-18, buildings and works, Inuvik, total region, $1.799 million? Agreed?

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Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

--- Agreed

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The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Next page, detail of capital, airports, total region, $3.59 million. Agreed?

Committee Report 3-13(3): Standing Committee On Resource Management And Development Report On The Review Of The 1996-97 Main Estimates
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Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

--- Agreed

Committee Report 3-13(3): Standing Committee On Resource Management And Development Report On The Review Of The 1996-97 Main Estimates
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The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Buildings and works. We will move on to the next page, section 8-20, Keewatin, buildings and works, total region, $472,000. Agreed?

Committee Report 3-13(3): Standing Committee On Resource Management And Development Report On The Review Of The 1996-97 Main Estimates
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Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

--- Agreed

Committee Report 3-13(3): Standing Committee On Resource Management And Development Report On The Review Of The 1996-97 Main Estimates
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Page 454

The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Buildings and works, Kitikmeot, total region, $3.755 million. Agreed?

Committee Report 3-13(3): Standing Committee On Resource Management And Development Report On The Review Of The 1996-97 Main Estimates
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Page 454

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

--- Agreed

Committee Report 3-13(3): Standing Committee On Resource Management And Development Report On The Review Of The 1996-97 Main Estimates
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 454

The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Equipment acquisition, headquarters, total buildings and works, $11.206 million. Agreed?

Committee Report 3-13(3): Standing Committee On Resource Management And Development Report On The Review Of The 1996-97 Main Estimates
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Page 454

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

--- Agreed

Committee Report 3-13(3): Standing Committee On Resource Management And Development Report On The Review Of The 1996-97 Main Estimates
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Page 454

The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Equipment acquisition, headquarters, total region, $865,000. Mr. Krutko.

Committee Report 3-13(3): Standing Committee On Resource Management And Development Report On The Review Of The 1996-97 Main Estimates
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David Krutko

David Krutko Mackenzie Delta

Can you read the page numbers in order to keep tabs on what page we are on?

Committee Report 3-13(3): Standing Committee On Resource Management And Development Report On The Review Of The 1996-97 Main Estimates
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Page 454

The Chair John Ningark

I apologize. We are on section 8- 21.We are reviewing Transportation. Equipment acquisition, headquarters, page 8-21, total region, $865,000. Agreed?

Committee Report 3-13(3): Standing Committee On Resource Management And Development Report On The Review Of The 1996-97 Main Estimates
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 454

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

---Agreed

Committee Report 3-13(3): Standing Committee On Resource Management And Development Report On The Review Of The 1996-97 Main Estimates
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 454

The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Equipment acquisition, Fort Smith, total region, $98,000. Agreed?

Committee Report 3-13(3): Standing Committee On Resource Management And Development Report On The Review Of The 1996-97 Main Estimates
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 454

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

--- Agreed

Committee Report 3-13(3): Standing Committee On Resource Management And Development Report On The Review Of The 1996-97 Main Estimates
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 454

The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Equipment acquisition, Inuvik, total region, $265,000. We are still on page 8-21. Agreed?

Committee Report 3-13(3): Standing Committee On Resource Management And Development Report On The Review Of The 1996-97 Main Estimates
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Page 454

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

--- Agreed

Committee Report 3-13(3): Standing Committee On Resource Management And Development Report On The Review Of The 1996-97 Main Estimates
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 454

The Chair John Ningark

Total equipment acquisition, Baffin, page 8-22, detail of capital, airports, total region, $998,000. Agreed?

Committee Report 3-13(3): Standing Committee On Resource Management And Development Report On The Review Of The 1996-97 Main Estimates
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 454

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

--- Agreed

Committee Report 3-13(3): Standing Committee On Resource Management And Development Report On The Review Of The 1996-97 Main Estimates
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 454

The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Equipment acquisition, Keewatin, total region, $272,000. Agreed?

Committee Report 3-13(3): Standing Committee On Resource Management And Development Report On The Review Of The 1996-97 Main Estimates
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 455

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

--- Agreed

Committee Report 3-13(3): Standing Committee On Resource Management And Development Report On The Review Of The 1996-97 Main Estimates
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 455

The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Total equipment acquisition, $2.498 million. Agreed?

Committee Report 3-13(3): Standing Committee On Resource Management And Development Report On The Review Of The 1996-97 Main Estimates
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 455

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

--- Agreed

Committee Report 3-13(3): Standing Committee On Resource Management And Development Report On The Review Of The 1996-97 Main Estimates
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 455

The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Total activity, $13.704 million. Agreed?

Committee Report 3-13(3): Standing Committee On Resource Management And Development Report On The Review Of The 1996-97 Main Estimates
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 455

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

--- Agreed

Committee Report 3-13(3): Standing Committee On Resource Management And Development Report On The Review Of The 1996-97 Main Estimates
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 455

The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Page 8-23. Mr. Roland.

Committee Report 3-13(3): Standing Committee On Resource Management And Development Report On The Review Of The 1996-97 Main Estimates
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Page 455

Floyd Roland

Floyd Roland Inuvik

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Will we report progress? .

Committee Report 3-13(3): Standing Committee On Resource Management And Development Report On The Review Of The 1996-97 Main Estimates
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Page 455

The Chair John Ningark

Mr. Roland, did you make a motion to report progress?

Committee Report 3-13(3): Standing Committee On Resource Management And Development Report On The Review Of The 1996-97 Main Estimates
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Floyd Roland

Floyd Roland Inuvik

Yes.

Committee Report 3-13(3): Standing Committee On Resource Management And Development Report On The Review Of The 1996-97 Main Estimates
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Page 455

The Chair John Ningark

There is a motion to report progress and the motion is not debatable. All those in favour? The motion is defeated.

--- Defeated

Perhaps someone else would like to take the chair.

Motor Vehicles

Motor vehicles, operations and maintenance, total operations and maintenance, $2.481 million. Agreed?

Committee Report 3-13(3): Standing Committee On Resource Management And Development Report On The Review Of The 1996-97 Main Estimates
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 455

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

--- Agreed

Committee Report 3-13(3): Standing Committee On Resource Management And Development Report On The Review Of The 1996-97 Main Estimates
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 455

The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Page 8-24, detail of capital, motor vehicles, equipment acquisition, Fort Smith, total region, $125,000. Agreed?

Committee Report 3-13(3): Standing Committee On Resource Management And Development Report On The Review Of The 1996-97 Main Estimates
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 455

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

--- Agreed

Committee Report 3-13(3): Standing Committee On Resource Management And Development Report On The Review Of The 1996-97 Main Estimates
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 455

The Chair John Ningark

Total equipment acquisition, $125,000. Agreed?

Committee Report 3-13(3): Standing Committee On Resource Management And Development Report On The Review Of The 1996-97 Main Estimates
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 455

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

--- Agreed

Committee Report 3-13(3): Standing Committee On Resource Management And Development Report On The Review Of The 1996-97 Main Estimates
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 455

The Chair John Ningark

Total activity, $125,000. Agreed?

Committee Report 3-13(3): Standing Committee On Resource Management And Development Report On The Review Of The 1996-97 Main Estimates
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 455

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

--- Agreed

Community Access Roads

Committee Report 3-13(3): Standing Committee On Resource Management And Development Report On The Review Of The 1996-97 Main Estimates
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 455

The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Page 8-25, community access roads, operations and maintenance, total operations and maintenance, $75,000. Agreed? Mr. Erasmus.

Motion To Extend Sitting Hours, Carried

Committee Report 3-13(3): Standing Committee On Resource Management And Development Report On The Review Of The 1996-97 Main Estimates
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Roy Erasmus Yellowknife North

Mr. Chairman, I would like to move to extend the sitting until we finish this department.

Committee Report 3-13(3): Standing Committee On Resource Management And Development Report On The Review Of The 1996-97 Main Estimates
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 455

The Chair John Ningark

The motion is in order, it is not debatable. All those in favour of extending the hours until we conclude this department? The motion is carried.

--Carried

We will extend the sitting hours until we conclude this item.

Community access road, operations and maintenance, total operations and maintenance, $75,000. Agreed?

Committee Report 3-13(3): Standing Committee On Resource Management And Development Report On The Review Of The 1996-97 Main Estimates
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 455

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

--- Agreed

Committee Report 3-13(3): Standing Committee On Resource Management And Development Report On The Review Of The 1996-97 Main Estimates
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 455

The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Detail of capital, community access roads, buildings and works, Fort Smith, total region. Mr. Henry.

Committee Report 3-13(3): Standing Committee On Resource Management And Development Report On The Review Of The 1996-97 Main Estimates
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Seamus Henry Yellowknife South

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. The first item, Jeannie Marie River.

--- Laughter

Committee Report 3-13(3): Standing Committee On Resource Management And Development Report On The Review Of The 1996-97 Main Estimates
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair John Ningark

Mr. Henry, it's not Jeannie Marie, it's Jean Marie.

Committee Report 3-13(3): Standing Committee On Resource Management And Development Report On The Review Of The 1996-97 Main Estimates
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Seamus Henry Yellowknife South

Mr. Chairman, I stand corrected. I have a question with regard to that particular project. I see it's a combination of a two-year project.

Committee Report 3-13(3): Standing Committee On Resource Management And Development Report On The Review Of The 1996-97 Main Estimates
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The Chair John Ningark

Mr. Minister.

Committee Report 3-13(3): Standing Committee On Resource Management And Development Report On The Review Of The 1996-97 Main Estimates
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Jim Antoine Nahendeh

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. This particular job, the Jean Marie River access road, has been going on for quite a few years. The scope of the work began in 1993. Every year there's so much being put into it. This is the final year this project is in the works. It will be complete this year. Once the budget gets approved, hopefully it will be complete this year and we will have an access road connecting the highway to the community of Jean Marie River.

Committee Report 3-13(3): Standing Committee On Resource Management And Development Report On The Review Of The 1996-97 Main Estimates
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 455

The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Mr. Henry.

Committee Report 3-13(3): Standing Committee On Resource Management And Development Report On The Review Of The 1996-97 Main Estimates
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Seamus Henry Yellowknife South

What's the criteria for an access road to a community? The population in 1986 was 64 and in 1991

the population was 49. It has a declining population. What's the criteria for road construction?

Committee Report 3-13(3): Standing Committee On Resource Management And Development Report On The Review Of The 1996-97 Main Estimates
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Mr. Minister.

Committee Report 3-13(3): Standing Committee On Resource Management And Development Report On The Review Of The 1996-97 Main Estimates
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Jim Antoine Nahendeh

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. To answer this question I may have to go back a few years for the history of the access road. The access road began in the middle term of the last government. Prior to that, this particular access road was already under way. This was started as a DIAND project, the fund was then moved to the GNWT and it was a specific project within the Department of Transportation until the whole access road program was created. It was then incorporated into this access road program. The criteria, at the present time, is more on a first come first-serve basis for the access road program. There is an initial amount of $50,000 that is allocated from an existing approved budget from this Legislative Assembly and through an application process this money has been allocated out. That was the criteria which this access road is under. To repeat myself, this particular program, the Jean Marie River access road, was in place long before the access road program was put into place. Thank you.

Committee Report 3-13(3): Standing Committee On Resource Management And Development Report On The Review Of The 1996-97 Main Estimates
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Page 456

The Chair John Ningark

Buildings and works, Fort Smith, total region, $385,000. Agreed?

Committee Report 3-13(3): Standing Committee On Resource Management And Development Report On The Review Of The 1996-97 Main Estimates
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 456

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

--- Agreed

Committee Report 3-13(3): Standing Committee On Resource Management And Development Report On The Review Of The 1996-97 Main Estimates
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 456

The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Total buildings and works, $385,000. Agreed?

Committee Report 3-13(3): Standing Committee On Resource Management And Development Report On The Review Of The 1996-97 Main Estimates
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 456

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

--- Agreed

Committee Report 3-13(3): Standing Committee On Resource Management And Development Report On The Review Of The 1996-97 Main Estimates
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 456

The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Mr. Steen.

Committee Report 3-13(3): Standing Committee On Resource Management And Development Report On The Review Of The 1996-97 Main Estimates
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Vince Steen

Vince Steen Nunakput

Mr. Chairman, I raised my hand at the total figure for the total region for Fort Smith at $385,000. I would like to speak to that figure.

Committee Report 3-13(3): Standing Committee On Resource Management And Development Report On The Review Of The 1996-97 Main Estimates
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair John Ningark

Mr. Steen, we have not called the total region for headquarters. You can still speak to the Fort Smith region.

Committee Report 3-13(3): Standing Committee On Resource Management And Development Report On The Review Of The 1996-97 Main Estimates
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Vince Steen

Vince Steen Nunakput

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I recall last fall asking the Minister in the House if this government had any responsibility for building roads and highways and if they could possibly consider one between Tuktoyaktuk and Inuvik. If I recall correctly, the response was that it was not the responsibility of this government to build roads. Why am I seeing all of these roads in this budget?

Committee Report 3-13(3): Standing Committee On Resource Management And Development Report On The Review Of The 1996-97 Main Estimates
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 456

The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Access roads, Mr. Minister.

Committee Report 3-13(3): Standing Committee On Resource Management And Development Report On The Review Of The 1996-97 Main Estimates
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Page 456

Jim Antoine Nahendeh

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. The intention of the access road program was to try and accommodate communities that wanted to have access to the surrounding areas, their hunting areas. It has become a very popular program. The amount is not that much at the present time. Every year there are more and more requests. What this access road has done is provide the funds directly to some of the municipalities to utilize and start putting trails into their hunting areas, perhaps even good tour sites. The response which I gave the honourable Member in the fall was to address his concern of putting a major infrastructure in the Delta to connect Inuvik to Tuktoyaktuk. At the present time, the amount to cover it in this area is quite substantial. There have been feasibility studies conducted which put it into the $150 million to $160 million range. The federal government has responsibility in this price range to do a major highway system. The access road is on a much smaller scale. If you look at the Jean Marie River access roads, it's been in the works for some time. It's been approved by previous governments to complete the road. That would probably be the last big expenditure in this particular access road program.

I don't know whether this answer satisfies the honourable Member. The reply I provided to him was for quite a larger amount of money than what we are talking about in the access road program. Yes, we have funds to put in access road. Many communities have utilized this and more and more communities are requesting this access road program.

Committee Report 3-13(3): Standing Committee On Resource Management And Development Report On The Review Of The 1996-97 Main Estimates
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 456

The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Total region. Mr. Steen.

Committee Report 3-13(3): Standing Committee On Resource Management And Development Report On The Review Of The 1996-97 Main Estimates
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Page 456

Vince Steen

Vince Steen Nunakput

Mr. Chairman, I recall reading in the five-year capital plan the justification for this funding was to bring this particular access road up to all-weather road standards and, therefore, it would become an all-weather road. It seems to me that an all-weather road to Jean Marie River is the same as an all-weather road from Tuktoyaktuk to Inuvik except that one is a little longer than the other. I understand that Jean Marie River is 27 miles long. How long does a road have to be before it quits being an access road and becomes a highway?

I totally support this type of program and the idea of changing transportation of our highway into our access road if we can get it built. I understand the system and I understand that the government will benefit, because once the all-weather road is in place to Jean Marie River, obviously you would have no more winter road costs. But that is exactly the same thing my people want to do -- do away with the winter road, if possible, and switch to an all weather road -but we believe we have a lot more justification for the request because we have a population of 1,000 plus. We have thousands of tourists every summer, but they all fly in. We believe that the justification is there for the highway or the access road, whatever you want to call it. I prefer access road seeing as now you have money for it. But the point of all this is that I believe that all communities should have the ability to access this program, and I encourage the department to put more money into the thing. If it creates jobs, if it creates training for the communities, I am definitely 100 per cent in support of the program. If they can tie in with Arctic College programs, I support that 100 per cent.

I guess my point is that if it is good enough for one community to call it an access road, well, then we should call them all access roads. I think we heard from the federal representative, Ethel Blondin, not too long ago, that the federal government has no intention of building any more roads up in this country, so it's our responsibility to do it. I believe that we are supposed to be taking over responsibility from the federal government, so I support your department in continuing this program, with a bigger budget, provided it is available to all communities and it creates work and gets people off of welfare. Thank you.

Committee Report 3-13(3): Standing Committee On Resource Management And Development Report On The Review Of The 1996-97 Main Estimates
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 457

The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Mr. Minister, did you want to respond?

Committee Report 3-13(3): Standing Committee On Resource Management And Development Report On The Review Of The 1996-97 Main Estimates
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Jim Antoine Nahendeh

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I would like to thank the honourable Member for the support. What this particular access road program has done is provide employment to the communities, and, in conjunction with the Department of Education, Culture and Employment, it has consulted with them with respect to providing a training course on the equipment operations in the communities. So not only has this particular project built an all-weather road to connect them to the highway, but it also provided training to people in the community, it provided employment and it provided work for the equipment that is there. This was done in conjunction with the Department of Transportation management. It has been a very successful program.

I like what the honourable Member is suggesting, that we look at this as an example of how construction in other areas could happen. I think that's a direction we would try to go because it provides employment to people in the community, and it provides jobs for the construction equipment. Overall, you have a very positive outcome at the end. Thank you.

Committee Report 3-13(3): Standing Committee On Resource Management And Development Report On The Review Of The 1996-97 Main Estimates
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 457

The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Total region, Fort Smith area, $385,000.

Committee Report 3-13(3): Standing Committee On Resource Management And Development Report On The Review Of The 1996-97 Main Estimates
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 457

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

--- Agreed

Committee Report 3-13(3): Standing Committee On Resource Management And Development Report On The Review Of The 1996-97 Main Estimates
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 457

The Chair John Ningark

Total buildings and works, $385,000.

Committee Report 3-13(3): Standing Committee On Resource Management And Development Report On The Review Of The 1996-97 Main Estimates
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 457

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

--- Agreed

Committee Report 3-13(3): Standing Committee On Resource Management And Development Report On The Review Of The 1996-97 Main Estimates
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 457

The Chair John Ningark

Contributions, headquarters, total region, $30,000.

Committee Report 3-13(3): Standing Committee On Resource Management And Development Report On The Review Of The 1996-97 Main Estimates
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 457

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

--- Agreed

Committee Report 3-13(3): Standing Committee On Resource Management And Development Report On The Review Of The 1996-97 Main Estimates
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 457

The Chair

The Chair Vince Steen

Okay, I will call the number again. Total region, $30,000.

Committee Report 3-13(3): Standing Committee On Resource Management And Development Report On The Review Of The 1996-97 Main Estimates
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 457

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

--- Agreed

Committee Report 3-13(3): Standing Committee On Resource Management And Development Report On The Review Of The 1996-97 Main Estimates
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 457

The Chair

The Chair Vince Steen

Contributions, Fort Smith, total region, $50,000.

Committee Report 3-13(3): Standing Committee On Resource Management And Development Report On The Review Of The 1996-97 Main Estimates
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 457

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

---Agreed

Committee Report 3-13(3): Standing Committee On Resource Management And Development Report On The Review Of The 1996-97 Main Estimates
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 457

The Chair

The Chair Vince Steen

Contributions, Inuvik, total region, $105,000.

Committee Report 3-13(3): Standing Committee On Resource Management And Development Report On The Review Of The 1996-97 Main Estimates
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 457

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

--- Agreed

Committee Report 3-13(3): Standing Committee On Resource Management And Development Report On The Review Of The 1996-97 Main Estimates
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 457

The Chair

The Chair Vince Steen

Contributions, Baffin, total region, $90,000.

Committee Report 3-13(3): Standing Committee On Resource Management And Development Report On The Review Of The 1996-97 Main Estimates
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 457

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

--- Agreed

Committee Report 3-13(3): Standing Committee On Resource Management And Development Report On The Review Of The 1996-97 Main Estimates
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 457

The Chair

The Chair Vince Steen

Contributions, Keewatin, total region, on page 8-27, $200,000.

Committee Report 3-13(3): Standing Committee On Resource Management And Development Report On The Review Of The 1996-97 Main Estimates
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 457

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

Committee Report 3-13(3): Standing Committee On Resource Management And Development Report On The Review Of The 1996-97 Main Estimates
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 457

The Chair

The Chair Vince Steen

Contributions, Kitikmeot, total region, $90,000.

Committee Report 3-13(3): Standing Committee On Resource Management And Development Report On The Review Of The 1996-97 Main Estimates
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 457

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

--- Agreed

Committee Report 3-13(3): Standing Committee On Resource Management And Development Report On The Review Of The 1996-97 Main Estimates
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 457

The Chair

The Chair Vince Steen

Total contributions, $565,000.

Committee Report 3-13(3): Standing Committee On Resource Management And Development Report On The Review Of The 1996-97 Main Estimates
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 457

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

--- Agreed

Committee Report 3-13(3): Standing Committee On Resource Management And Development Report On The Review Of The 1996-97 Main Estimates
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 457

The Chair

The Chair Vince Steen

Total activity, $950,000.

Committee Report 3-13(3): Standing Committee On Resource Management And Development Report On The Review Of The 1996-97 Main Estimates
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 457

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

---Agreed

Community Marine

Committee Report 3-13(3): Standing Committee On Resource Management And Development Report On The Review Of The 1996-97 Main Estimates
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 457

The Chair

The Chair Vince Steen

Community marine, operations and maintenance, total operations and maintenance, $169,000.

Committee Report 3-13(3): Standing Committee On Resource Management And Development Report On The Review Of The 1996-97 Main Estimates
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 457

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

--- Agreed

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The Chair

The Chair Vince Steen

Detail of capital, community marine, buildings and works, headquarters, total region, $50,000.

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Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

---Agreed

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The Chair

The Chair Vince Steen

Buildings and works, Baffin, total region, $665,000. Mr. Picco.

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Edward Picco Iqaluit

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I just want to confirm from Mr. Antoine; you said earlier that the reallocation of some monies that were earlier targeted would go to Iqaluit and Apex harbour enhancement because of the serious concerns we had for their safety, at cetera. I notice it's $140,000, but you had announced it was $200,000. Could you tell me what the proper amount is there?

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The Chair

The Chair Vince Steen

Thank you, Mr. Picco. Mr. Antoine.

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Jim Antoine Nahendeh

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. The honourable Member for Iqaluit is referring to a reallocation that we would like to do here, and if it is approved then you would add on the $200,000 to that amount, and the amount here will be about $340,000.

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The Chair

The Chair Vince Steen

Thank you, Mr. Antoine. Mr. Picco.

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Edward Picco Iqaluit

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Has FMBS authorized the reallocation of the $200,000 so it would be $340,000, for the record?

Committee Report 3-13(3): Standing Committee On Resource Management And Development Report On The Review Of The 1996-97 Main Estimates
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The Chair

The Chair Vince Steen

Thank you, Mr. Picco. Mr. Antoine.

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Jim Antoine Nahendeh

Yes, Mr. Chairman, the Financial Management Board approved the suggestion that I put forward of reallocating the $900,000 from tanker moorings in Rankin Inlet, and the way that we've broken it down.

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The Chair

The Chair Vince Steen

I didn't quite get the last part of that, Mr. Antoine.

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Jim Antoine Nahendeh

Sorry, Mr. Chairman. What I am referring to is that I had proposed reallocating $900,000 from the tanker moorings in Rankin Inlet, which is in the next section which we haven't gone to yet. But the question from the honourable Member for Iqaluit is that a part of that decision of the Financial Management Board would be to reallocate the $900,000, and that $200,000 of that would be added on through the Iqaluit-Apex harbour enhancement in Iqaluit and add on $200,000 to the $140,000. That will make it $340,000. Thank you.

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The Chair

The Chair Vince Steen

Thank you, Mr. Antoine. Total region, $665,000.

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Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

--- Agreed

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The Chair

The Chair Vince Steen

Mr. Ningark.

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John Ningark Natilikmiot

Are we still on access roads here? Have we moved? Go ahead. Okay. Can I go back to access roads just momentarily, please?

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The Chair

The Chair Vince Steen

The Member would like to return to access roads. Would Members agree?

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Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

--- Agreed

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John Ningark Natilikmiot

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Thank you, colleagues. I just want to speak very briefly about access roads and the usefulness in my communities of Pelly Bay, Gjoa Haven and Taloyoak. Access roads, Mr. Chairman, are very useful. They provide ways and means to have hunters access hunting areas and fishing areas. It also provides some ways and means to allow the hunters to go out to the hunting areas without having to worry about equipment breaking due to the rough terrain. So access roads in the Eastern Arctic are very popular and I would encourage the government to build access roads in the communities. It is just a comment.

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The Chair

The Chair Vince Steen

Thank you. Did you wish to respond?

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Jim Antoine Nahendeh

I would like to thank the honourable Member for the support for this program for the access roads. The more we do that the more it will help provide people in communities with the service they require to get out on the land to do the tourism and to do their hunting. I think it is a very good program myself.

Committee Report 3-13(3): Standing Committee On Resource Management And Development Report On The Review Of The 1996-97 Main Estimates
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The Chair

The Chair Vince Steen

Thank you. Are we though with access roads?

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Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

--- Agreed

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The Chair

The Chair Vince Steen

Buildings and works, Keewatin, total region, $3.324 million. Mr. Krutko.

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David Krutko

David Krutko Mackenzie Delta

Back to buildings and works for Baffin, the total wouldn't read $665,000. I believe that would be $765,000. The totals are wrong. We are putting ourselves in a deficit for another $200,000.

Committee Report 3-13(3): Standing Committee On Resource Management And Development Report On The Review Of The 1996-97 Main Estimates
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The Chair

The Chair Vince Steen

I get $665,000. Mr. Krutko, my figures total $665,000. Mr. Todd.

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John Todd Keewatin Central

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. The overall allocation for this department remains the same. The FMB has accepted the recommendation of the committee for the reallocation of $900,000 to the appropriate projects that were laid out in the committee's recommendations. So it is the total capital expenditures and we have confirmed, both the Minister and myself, that we have accepted the recommendations of the committee to reallocate the money into the areas that were reported in the committee's report and that the Minister alluded to in his opening comments.

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Page 458

The Chair

The Chair Vince Steen

Thank you, Mr. Todd. Mr. Krutko.

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David Krutko

David Krutko Mackenzie Delta

The point is we should be dealing with actual numbers. The Minister just stated that we are talking about $340,000 regarding the Apex harbour expansion. He just stated that that is the number we are using. We aren't using $140,000. For the record, it should read what we are presenting in this House.

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The Chair

The Chair Vince Steen

It doesn't really matter as to whether or not the figures change. It may even change over the year, but the overall total is the one that doesn't change. The overall total for capital does not change.

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Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

--- Agreed

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The Chair

The Chair Vince Steen

I will call again, total region, $665,000.

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Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

--- Agreed

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The Chair John Ningark

Mr. Ootes.

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Jake Ootes

Jake Ootes Yellowknife Centre

I would just like to get a clarification on the marine resupply terminal, Rankin Inlet, for $1.05 million.

--- Interjection

Committee Report 3-13(3): Standing Committee On Resource Management And Development Report On The Review Of The 1996-97 Main Estimates
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The Chair

The Chair Vince Steen

Mr. Ootes, I haven't gotten there yet. I was on the total region for Baffin, $665,000.

Committee Report 3-13(3): Standing Committee On Resource Management And Development Report On The Review Of The 1996-97 Main Estimates
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Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

--- Agreed.

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The Chair

The Chair Vince Steen

Buildings and works, Keewatin, total region, $3.324 million. Did you have a question, Mr. Ootes?

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Jake Ootes

Jake Ootes Yellowknife Centre

My question is with respect to the marine resupply terminal. It was my understanding that this would be delayed for another year.

Committee Report 3-13(3): Standing Committee On Resource Management And Development Report On The Review Of The 1996-97 Main Estimates
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The Chair

The Chair Vince Steen

Thank you, Mr. Ootes. Mr. Antoine.

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Jim Antoine Nahendeh

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. The marine resupply terminal is the wharf and the docking in Rankin. That isn't going to be delayed for a year. What I was referring to was the tanker moorings in Rankin Inlet. That is the item below the marine resupply terminal. Thank you.

Committee Report 3-13(3): Standing Committee On Resource Management And Development Report On The Review Of The 1996-97 Main Estimates
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Page 459

The Chair

The Chair Vince Steen

Mr. Ootes.

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Jake Ootes

Jake Ootes Yellowknife Centre

Is there federal funding provided for this as well?

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The Chair

The Chair Vince Steen

Thank you, Mr. Ootes. Mr. Minister.

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Jim Antoine Nahendeh

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Yes, there is federal funding for the resupply terminal of $750,000. Thank you.

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The Chair

The Chair Vince Steen

Thank you, Mr. Antoine. Mr. O'Brien.

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Kevin O'Brien Kivallivik

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I would like a further clarification on this issue here.

--- Interjection

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Kevin O'Brien Kivallivik

From the Minister, please.

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The Chair

The Chair Vince Steen

Mr. O'Brien, what would you like clarification on? The figure?

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Kevin O'Brien Kivallivik

I would like clarification on what work is going to be put in place for this $1.05 million.

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The Chair

The Chair Vince Steen

Thank you. Mr. Minister.

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Jim Antoine Nahendeh

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. This marine resupply terminal is a wharf or a dock for NTCL barging for unloading dry goods. That is what it is. It is similar to what other communities have. Like I said, it is part of the federal cost-share program. Thank you.

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The Chair

The Chair Vince Steen

Thank you, Mr. Antoine. Mr. O'Brien.

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Kevin O'Brien Kivallivik

Is this not part and parcel and part of the package for the tank farm project? Is this part of it?

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The Chair

The Chair Vince Steen

Thank you, Mr. O'Brien. Mr. Antoine.

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Jim Antoine Nahendeh

Mr. Chairman, this particular wharf has been designed to accommodate ships and barges for dry cargo. It is designed in a way where eventually, if there are going to be larger boats that come into that area, they would be able to utilize this wharf for unloading and loading. It isn't necessarily part and parcel of the whole resupply for fuel, but it is designed in a way where it is there for other ships other than fuel ships. It could still be utilized for that. Thank you.

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The Chair

The Chair Vince Steen

Thank you, Mr. Antoine. Mr. O'Brien.

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Kevin O'Brien Kivallivik

Mr. Chairman, presently we have struck a committee to study the resupply that will start meetings next month in Arviat, Rankin, Baker and so on. To me, this looks like it is part and parcel. Is this an exercise in futility? We struck this committee to study this issue and here we are carrying out one of the major components of the resupply.

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The Chair

The Chair Vince Steen

Thank you, Mr. O'Brien. Mr. Antoine.

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Jim Antoine Nahendeh

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I understand what the Member is talking about. There is a steering committee struck to look into the whole resupply question in the Keewatin and in the Eastern Arctic. He is implying that this marine resupply terminal is to accommodate the resupply of a tank farm if it ever goes in there. The tanker moorings that we have agreed to reallocate, the funding of $900,000 was specifically aimed at the resupply. That you could say is part and parcel of that package. Regarding the marine resupply terminal -- perhaps the name throws people off -- what it really is is a huge docking facility that would accommodate all kinds of different vessels that may come into Rankin Inlet for resupply. The moorings are the ones that were designed to

accommodate the tankers. The wharf itself is designed to deal with dry cargo and it could also be utilized to accommodate fuel vessels that come into that area. That isn't totally the reason for this marine resupply terminal. Thank you.

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The Chair

The Chair Vince Steen

Thank you, Mr. Antoine. Mr. O'Brien.

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Kevin O'Brien Kivallivik

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, can the Minister tell me when the study on the resupply is concluded and, if it were found that we aren't going to move on with this resupply located in Rankin, would you be going ahead with this particular project?

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The Chair

The Chair Vince Steen

Thank you, Mr. O'Brien. Mr. O'Brien, the way you phrased your question, it could be considered hypothetical. Could you rephrase your question?

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Kevin O'Brien Kivallivik

All right. Is this portion of the marine supply terminal part of the overall tank farm project? Thank you.

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The Chair

The Chair Vince Steen

Thank you. Mr. Antoine.

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Jim Antoine Nahendeh

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. This dock is a dock such as you would find in a lot of the eastern communities. It is designed in a way that it will accommodate large ships. It may eventually accommodate ships that would be coming in to resupply the community and the regions.

The tanker moorings that we have decided to hold off for a year were specifically for unloading fuel from large ships. If you are asking if the marine resupply terminal is solely for resupplying the fuel supply in the Keewatin, I have to say no. That isn't solely designed to do that. It is designed to do a lot of other things besides that. Perhaps eventually, if fuel resupply boats come in, they may be able to utilize the terminal as well. Like I said, I have been told by the department that perhaps it is a bad name to put on it if you are trying to tie it to the overall resupply initiative in the Keewatin. I have to say it isn't solely for resupplying the Keewatin fuel. Thank you.

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The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Keewatin, Mr. O'Brien.

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Kevin O'Brien Kivallivik

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I guess my concern here is I don't want to be hoodwinked but, on the other hand, I don't want us going into a $100,000 review process with these committee meetings to study the feasibility of this project if this is the main component of it. If that is the case, we should wait. I would look foolish going into a committee when the project has already started.

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The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. There was no question. Mr. O'Brien.

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Kevin O'Brien Kivallivik

My question to the Minister is I have asked before if this is one of the main components of the fuel tank project in Rankin inlet. I know the Minister has indicated that this would be used for other uses, but he didn't indicate whether it was or wasn't the main part of the overall process.

I

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The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Mr. Minister.

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Jim Antoine Nahendeh

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. This terminal here is for resupply for the community and for the region in terms of dry cargo and freight. There are other components of this terminal that will come in future years. The way this particular terminal is designed right now, it could stand alone as a docking facility such as other communities have. If you go to Iqaluit, Pangnirtung or Cambridge Bay, they all have facilities that are there, but this one is designed in a way where it will accommodate the existing supply for the region. I know you are chairing a steering committee and you want to make sure you have all the options open. I have no problem with that. But this terminal is like a wharf. That is what it is.

Once your committee has done its work, they may say otherwise. They may say we will go ahead and provide a resupply facility in Rankin. They may say that. It may go positive rather than against it. So if that happens, we will start talking about the tanker moorings and the types of facilities we need to resupply the fuel at Rankin Inlet. Thank you.

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The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Total region, Mr. Krutko.

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David Krutko

David Krutko Mackenzie Delta

I need clarification, as the chairman of the committee that reviewed this. This wasn't an item. It was in relation to a docking facility in which, because they were still going to be barging fuel from Churchill and other locations last year -- this was also through your capital plan expenditures -- this is just additional work that had to be done on it. That is why it is being flagged here now. All we were talking about was the moorings and also the rate of bringing the pipeline in from the offshore. That is where the large expenditure was. That is just my understanding, as chairman of the committee. This was never associated with the tank farm.

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The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. We have total region. Mr. Steen.

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Vince Steen

Vince Steen Nunakput

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. There are a couple of things I note here. I know that the Minister says nothing more, no wharves. I note that a wharf construction in Whale Cove is only $60,000, but we have a wharf -- if you want to call a marine terminal a wharf -- in Rankin Inlet that is $1.05 million. My particular question is with regard to the tank moorings. Obviously, Rankin Inlet has been able to be supplied in the past without those tanker moorings because of the system of ships that were used. Now, unless we intend to use tankers, there is really no justification for the tanker moorings. So I think the decision to use tankers has to be made before we decide to put in tanker moorings.

Mr. Chairman, I also note that in the report from the standing committee that it says they were surprised to see this project still in there, and that in April the Minister explained that this project was in fact on hold and that a plan was being developed to defer the tanker mooring project for 1997-98. I wonder if the Minister could respond to that for me.

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The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Mr. Minister.

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Jim Antoine Nahendeh

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Once we went through the budgeting process and following the committee recommendation that was to cut back $2.5 million after meeting our targets, we had to cut some more in the second year and some more in the third year. This department had taken quite a lot of cuts in the whole budgeting process. Once the $900,000 in the tanker mooring came up, I did say to the committee that I didn't want to cut any more and, therefore, that's why it remained in the books.

The committee is saying that they're surprised that it is still there. What I did is I recommended to the committee, approached the Financial Management Board and had approval to reallocate the $900,000 for the tanker moorings until after Mr. O'Brien's steering committee had done its work. The projects that we had approved were projects that were going to happen anyway in the next year. So what we did was just move some projects ahead. That's how we took care of that. I hope that explains the position that I've taken on this particular one to the honourable Member. Thank you.

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The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Total region. Mr. Steen.

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Vince Steen

Vince Steen Nunakput

Mr. Chairman, it does explain some of my questions, but I still have a question. Are we building the moorings before we have decided to use tankers or are those moorings going to be used for some other purpose? Can they be used for some purpose other than tankers? In other words, if we spend all that money and we decide not to use tankers, wouldn't that be a waste of $900,000?

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The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Mr. Minister.

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Jim Antoine Nahendeh

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. The tanker moorings are not going to be done this year. They will be discussed again after Mr. O'Brien has done his work with the steering committee. Hopefully, by the end of the summer, we will have a report by that steering committee. At that time we will decide on what we are going to do, whether we are going to have tanker moorings or not. At the present time, we are not going to have tanker moorings this year. The committee is going to be doing its work and by the time it's finished its work its report, it will be after the building season. It will be too late to put any tanker moorings in Rankin Inlet. So rather than cutting the $900,000, we reallocated this to other projects that were going to happen next year anyway. I hope that explains the tanker moorings for this year, Mr. Chairman. Thank you.

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The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Total region, $3.324 million. Mr. Steen.

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Vince Steen

Vince Steen Nunakput

Mr. Chairman, perhaps the Minister or his staff could explain to me how they intend to put these tanker moorings in place once the decision is made to do so. My concern is whether or not there will still be time to do this in this year and whether it's realistic to have it in the budget.

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The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Mr. Minister.

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Jim Antoine Nahendeh

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. The tanker moorings is on the books but we have all agreed here, following the committee's recommendation and approval of the Financial Management Board, that that $900,000 for the tanker moorings has been reallocated to other projects within the Department of Transportation and that we will revise this estimate after we have concluded. Thank you.

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The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Total region, $3.324 million. Mr. Henry.

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Seamus Henry Yellowknife South

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Did I hear the Minister making the statement that $750,000 of that $1.05 million is being provided by the federal government?

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The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Mr. Minister.

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Jim Antoine Nahendeh

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. The federal government is providing $750,000 to the total cost of this project, and the total cost -- if you look at the total capital project -- is $1.821 million. That is the total cost and there is $750,000 of it that is a contribution from the federal government. Thank you,

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The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Mr. Henry.

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Seamus Henry Yellowknife South

Mr. Chairman, I would just like to check; I'm talking about the marine resupply terminal. I think you said there is $1.8 million on that. The figure I have in front me is $1.05 million.

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The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Mr. Minister, on the total capital.

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Jim Antoine Nahendeh

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Yes, the $750,000 for the marine resupply terminal is part of the total capital project. You have to add up this year's capital estimate, prior years' costs, future years, and that is $1.821 million. To be precise about this $1.05 million capital estimate for this year's share, the federal government is $525,000.

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The Chair John Ningark

Okay. Are you okay now, Mr. Henry? Total region is $3.324 million. We have Mr. Miltenberger.

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Michael Miltenberger

Michael Miltenberger Thebacha

Mr. Chairman. I want to deal with this tonight but, when I agreed to do this, I didn't intend to bring my sleeping bag and spend the night. I don't mind free-flowing discussion on all of this, but I don't want to sit here for another hour nitpicking over stuff like this. So if we are going to proceed, fine. If not, I want to put a motion on the floor to report progress.

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The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. There is a motion on the floor to report progress. Are you making a motion now?

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Michael Miltenberger

Michael Miltenberger Thebacha

I want to give it...

--- Interjection

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The Chair John Ningark

Mr. Miltenberger, you have the floor.

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Michael Miltenberger

Michael Miltenberger Thebacha

Mr. Chairman, I just would like an indication from the committee because 9:30 is about the limit for me. After that, I want to put a motion on the floor to report progress because I have heard the discussion. We can talk about it more. The committee's made recommendations. We've heard the Minister. I don't know what more we want, personally. So let's either move on or go home.

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The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. I am told that that is not a valid question to be answered, although I have two other speakers who wish to speak. That's the only information I can relate to you. We have Mr. Picco.

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Edward Picco Iqaluit

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I think the controversy is the resupply terminal and it has nothing to do with the tanker moorings. I commend the Minister for reallocating that money.

On the terminal itself, when we say "terminal," are you talking about a stand-alone breakwater? Are you talking about a building on top of that, like a terminal for storage of dry goods which will be unloaded?

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The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Mr. Minister.

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Jim Antoine Nahendeh

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. This marine resupply terminal is a wharf with a dock, a dock-type wharf ... I guess it's the same thing. But there's no building on it and this also includes some site preparation around that particular facility. I have personally been to Rankin Inlet and I've personally seen the site where this project is going to go. I know that there's going to have to be some work in putting in the infrastructure. It requires some site preparation and some work around that area to build it up. So it's a substantial project and it is a stand-alone site. It's in the area where there could eventually be further development. As you know, this community is growing and they need to improve their facilities and, as a result of that, the amount of money that's allocated for it is to make sure that the work gets done and that it gets done right.

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The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Total region is $3.324 million. I have Mr. O'Brien.

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Kevin O'Brien Kivallivik

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. If the tank farm project were to proceed, would this project here be mandatory?

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The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Mr. Minister.

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Jim Antoine Nahendeh

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. We would be doing this project regardless of whether or not the tank farm goes ahead. Thank you.

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The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Mr. O'Brien.

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Kevin O'Brien Kivallivik

Mr. Chairman, my question to the Minister is, was this component a part of the overall design when the tank farm project was being looked at?

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The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Mr. Minister.

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Jim Antoine Nahendeh

Like I said earlier, we would be doing this facility regardless of whether or not the tank farm goes ahead and they required an additional facility such as that in this community. Whether this tank farm goes ahead or not, it was going to go anyway. Thank you.

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The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Mr. O'Brien.

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Kevin O'Brien Kivallivik

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I am still having difficulty in trying to understand the other uses for such a large project at this point in time. As I think Mr. Steen indicated, we are talking $50,000 to $100,000 for a wharf in Arviat, Whale Cove or one of the other communities, and we are talking $1.05 million here. What other uses and what types of ships will be coming in that would require this magnitude of a design or lay-out besides deep draft oil rigs?

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The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Mr. Minister.

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Jim Antoine Nahendeh

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. The pricetag for this facility is high, but if you look around the Nunavut area and you look at what types of structures have been put in place by our government as well as the feds, you are going to start seeing that there have been some big price tags for different facilities, like in Pangnirtung and so forth. The design here requires this amount of money. Again, this facility was designed to provide wharfing facilities for the community. Whether the tank farm goes ahead or not, they still need this type of facility. I don't know what else I can add to that.

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The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. I'll be calling for a break in a few minutes. Mr. Steen.

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The Chair

The Chair Vince Steen

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. My question to the Minister is in relation to privatization that this government is supposed to be working towards. Mr. Chairman, I would like to point out that in all other major communities where we have shipping, like Hay River, Inuvik and Tuk -- Tuk is a very large staging area -- private enterprise supplies their own docking facilities. My question here is why are we building docking facilities for private enterprise when, if they see the need for it, they build it anyway. Why are we forking out money when we are suggesting that everything else should be privatized, they do it better than us? So why are we doing it? Why are we doing this when maybe private enterprise should be doing it? Obviously, the main user of this terminal is going to be the shipping companies, so I don't understand why we don't privatize the thing and just let industry build it themselves instead of us doing it.

I would also like to point out that the federal government has been walking away from building ports and mooring facilities unless they have harbour authorities or port authorities which would then allow them to collect and charge for the use of these facilities. We seem to be about 50 years behind the feds in this case. We should maybe follow their example. I wonder if the Minister could respond to that.

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The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Mr. Minister.

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Jim Antoine Nahendeh

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. The honourable Member makes some good points, but I would

like to get into the area where the feds have been funding port facilities, moorings and so forth in Canada and in the North. In the Nunavut area, they have been doing that for some time now. They've invested a lot of money in building up the area here and they continue to do that. They need to do that through joint arrangements with this government. There's the strategic transportation improvement agreement, which this department has signed with Transport Canada, which provides Transport Canada to continue to help develop docks, wharfs and moorings in the Eastern Arctic. They will continue to do this. We're spending some of our money, half of the money comes from the federal government, they still provide us with the funds to provide facilities into the Eastern Arctic. This is where most of this funding is going. There are requests by communities. When I did my tour in the Baffin and Keewatin, the communities were still asking for more docking facilities and wharfs. They require this in some areas. This government is going to continue to do this as long as we have cost sharing arrangements with the federal government. Thank you.

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The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. I'll call for a break after Mr. Steen. Mr. Steen.

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Vince Steen

Vince Steen Nunakput

Mr. Chairman, I agree with the Minister. Most of the small communities require docking facilities. They are normally supplied free of charge. We are talking about a resupply terminal which is entirely different. I believe this facility is designed for staging of materials and equipment as well as for servicing the little community of Rankin Inlet. If you take into consideration that Rankin Inlet's population is 2,500, this is a major facility for such a small community. It must be designed for staging and resupply. Does the Minister have a plan in place where we implement user-pay? Are the companies who will be using these facilities be paying to use them? I will be working towards this.

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The Chair John Ningark

I will allow the honourable Minister to respond and then we'll take a break. Honourable Minister.

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Jim Antoine Nahendeh

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. The department has not looked at user-pay for docking facilities in the East. The department is trying to lower the cost of goods coming into that part of the country. By implementing user-fees -- I'm thinking out loud, we haven't discussed this within the department -- this would probably jack up the price some more. We're going to have to take a look at this. We'll take your question as a suggestion to see if there's any way to apply user-fees in these facilities. Thank you.

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The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. We'll take a five minute break.

--- SHORT RECESS

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The Chair

The Chair Vince Steen

I will call the committee back to order. We were on total region, Keewatin, and I had Mr. Henry and Mr. Krutko. I would just like to remind Members that if we are going to proceed with this thing, I am concerned about going through the budget process without proper consultation and allowing for questions. I am also concerned that the questions have to have a point to them. We can only expect so much clarification out of the Minister and out of his witnesses before we start repeating ourselves. I am also concerned that we are going through a budget without giving due time and process for the questioning. As we go further and further, there tends to be a possibility that Members will pass the numbers just for the sake of getting the thing over with. With those two things in mind, I would ask the committee to keep the questions to a point and if we are just questioning for the sake of questioning, we shouldn't be doing it. I will call on Mr. Henry.

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Seamus Henry Yellowknife South

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I have two short comments. I want to make it clear that the tanker moorings are gone. The federal government is contributing $500,000 of this year's $1.05 million. I sat in Caucus a week and a half ago and listened to the Members speak about the federal government's contribution to Nunavut and how small it was; here we have the federal government contribution to infrastructure and there seems to be a desire not to accept it. The Minister has slated that this project would go ahead regardless of tank farms. That is good enough for me. I just wish, Mr. Chairman, that if someone is really opposed to it, they would make a motion. If not, I would move that we would proceed to total region.

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Some Hon. Members

Hear! Hear!

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The Chair

The Chair Vince Steen

Mr. Henry, are we considering a motion has been moved by you?

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Seamus Henry Yellowknife South

Mr. Chairman, those were comments. I believe Mr. Krutko wanted to speak afterwards. I would like him to have his word and maybe we can go after that.

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The Chair

The Chair Vince Steen

Thank you, Mr. Henry. Mr. Krutko.

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David Krutko

David Krutko Mackenzie Delta

As chairman of the Resource Management and Development committee, we did have this debate internally and it didn't come out to being this active. We didn't realize there was this much of a problem. If you look at the other facilities that are being built -- such as the Iqaluit project for $1.42 million, the facility in Pangnirtung of $2.205 million -- if you look at the price range of the final product, it isn't a major item. I think because money has already been allocated to the project for the preparation to get to this stage and it is federal dollars that we are spending -- which is something we should take advantage of -- we didn't have a problem with it in committee, so I recommend that we proceed.

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Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

--- Agreed

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The Chair

The Chair Vince Steen

Thank you. I will call it again. Total region, $3.324 million.

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Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

--- Agreed

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The Chair

The Chair Vince Steen

We are now at buildings and works, Kitikmeot, total region, $250,000.

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Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

--- Agreed

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The Chair

The Chair Vince Steen

Total buildings and works, $4.289 million.

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Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

--- Agreed

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The Chair

The Chair Vince Steen

Page 8-30, detail of capital, total region, $100,000.

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Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

--- Agreed

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The Chair

The Chair Vince Steen

Total contributions, $100,000.

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Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

--- Agreed

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The Chair

The Chair Vince Steen

Total activity, $4.389 million.

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Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

--- Agreed

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The Chair

The Chair Vince Steen

Detail of grants and contributions, contributions, $14,000.

Committee Report 3-13(3): Standing Committee On Resource Management And Development Report On The Review Of The 1996-97 Main Estimates
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 464

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

---Agreed

Committee Report 3-13(3): Standing Committee On Resource Management And Development Report On The Review Of The 1996-97 Main Estimates
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair Vince Steen

We are on page 8-31. Total department, $14,000.

Committee Report 3-13(3): Standing Committee On Resource Management And Development Report On The Review Of The 1996-97 Main Estimates
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 464

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

---Agreed

Committee Report 3-13(3): Standing Committee On Resource Management And Development Report On The Review Of The 1996-97 Main Estimates
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 464

The Chair

The Chair Vince Steen

Page 8-32, detail of work performed on behalf of third parties. Page 8-33, detail of work performed on behalf of third parties.

Committee Report 3-13(3): Standing Committee On Resource Management And Development Report On The Review Of The 1996-97 Main Estimates
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 464

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

--- Agreed

Committee Report 3-13(3): Standing Committee On Resource Management And Development Report On The Review Of The 1996-97 Main Estimates
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 464

The Chair

The Chair Vince Steen

Total department, $5.091 million.

Committee Report 3-13(3): Standing Committee On Resource Management And Development Report On The Review Of The 1996-97 Main Estimates
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 464

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

--- Agreed

Committee Report 3-13(3): Standing Committee On Resource Management And Development Report On The Review Of The 1996-97 Main Estimates
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 464

The Chair

The Chair Vince Steen

We will now go back to program summary, Transportation, operations and maintenance, total operations and maintenance, $59.324 million.

Committee Report 3-13(3): Standing Committee On Resource Management And Development Report On The Review Of The 1996-97 Main Estimates
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 464

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

--- Agreed

Committee Report 3-13(3): Standing Committee On Resource Management And Development Report On The Review Of The 1996-97 Main Estimates
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 464

The Chair

The Chair Vince Steen

Capital, total capital, $41.971 million.

Committee Report 3-13(3): Standing Committee On Resource Management And Development Report On The Review Of The 1996-97 Main Estimates
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 464

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

--- Agreed

Committee Report 3-13(3): Standing Committee On Resource Management And Development Report On The Review Of The 1996-97 Main Estimates
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 464

The Chair

The Chair Vince Steen

Total expenditures, $101.295 million.

Committee Report 3-13(3): Standing Committee On Resource Management And Development Report On The Review Of The 1996-97 Main Estimates
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 464

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

---Agreed

Committee Report 3-13(3): Standing Committee On Resource Management And Development Report On The Review Of The 1996-97 Main Estimates
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 464

The Chair

The Chair Vince Steen

Does the committee agree that we are through with Transportation?

Committee Report 3-13(3): Standing Committee On Resource Management And Development Report On The Review Of The 1996-97 Main Estimates
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 464

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

--- Agreed

Committee Report 3-13(3): Standing Committee On Resource Management And Development Report On The Review Of The 1996-97 Main Estimates
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair Vince Steen

I would like to thank the Minister and his witnesses for their time. I would ask the committee, what do you wish me to do? Since there was a motion that we conclude this department, I will now rise and report progress.

Committee Report 3-13(3): Standing Committee On Resource Management And Development Report On The Review Of The 1996-97 Main Estimates
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 464

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

I will call the House back to order. Item 20, report of Committee of the Whole.

Item 20: Report Of Committee Of The Whole
Item 20: Report Of Committee Of The Whole

Page 464

Vince Steen

Vince Steen Nunakput

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, your committee has been considering Bill 11 and Committee Report 3-13(3) and, Mr. Speaker, I move that the report of Committee of the Whole be concurred with.

Item 20: Report Of Committee Of The Whole
Item 20: Report Of Committee Of The Whole

Page 464

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Thank you, Mr. Steen. Seconded by Mr. Arlooktoo. To the motion.

Item 20: Report Of Committee Of The Whole
Item 20: Report Of Committee Of The Whole

Page 464

Some Hon. Members

Question.

Item 20: Report Of Committee Of The Whole
Item 20: Report Of Committee Of The Whole

Page 464

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Question is being called. All those in favour? All those opposed? The motion is carried.

--- Carried

Item 21, third reading of bills. Item 22, Mr. Clerk, orders of the day.

Item 23: Orders Of The Day
Item 23: Orders Of The Day

Page 464

Clerk Of The House Mr. David Hamilton

Mr. Speaker, orders of the day for Friday, May 17, 1996:

1. Prayer

2. Ministers' Statements

3. Members' Statements

4. Returns to Oral Questions

5. Recognition of Visitors in the Gallery 6. Oral Questions

7. Written Questions

8. Returns to Written Questions

9. Replies to Opening Address

10. Petitions

11. Reports of Standing and Special Committees

12. Reports of Committees on the Review of Bills

13. Tabling of Documents

14. Notices of Motion

15. Notices of Motions for First Reading of Bills

16. Motions

- Motion 9-13(3), Removal and Recovery of Consumer Price Index Increase to Members Allowances and Expenses

17. First Reading of Bills

18. Second Reading of Bills

19. Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

- Bill 8, An Act to Amend the Income Tax

- Bill 11, Appropriation Act, 1996-97

- Committee Report 1-13(3), Standing Committee on Government Operations Report on the Review of the1996-97 Main Estimates

- Committee Report 2-13(3), Report of the Standing Committee on Infrastructure on the Review of the 1996-97 Main Estimates

- Committee Report 3-13(3), Report of the Standing Committee on Resource Management and Development on the Review of the 1996-97 Main Estimates

- Committee Report 4-13(3), Report of the Standing Committee on Social Programs on the Review of the 1996-97 Main Estimates

- Tabled Document 1-13(3), Report of the Commission on MLA Compensation

20. Report of Committee of the Whole

21. Third Reading of Bills

22. Orders of the Day

Item 23: Orders Of The Day
Item 23: Orders Of The Day

Page 465

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Thank you, Mr. Clerk. This House stands adjourned until Friday, May 17, 1996, at 10:00 a.m.

--- ADJOURNMENT