This is page numbers 199 - 230 of the Hansard for the 13th Assembly, 3rd Session. The original version can be accessed on the Legislative Assembly's website or by contacting the Legislative Assembly Library. The word of the day was nunavut.

Topics

Bill 11: Appropriation Act, 1996-97
Item 20: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 227

Charles Dent

Charles Dent Yellowknife Frame Lake

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. The Member is absolutely right. We have to be very creative and aggressive in how we do business from now on. I think that third-party purchase of programs such as the Member mentioned, perhaps a lands administrator program that is being purchased in the South, is something that we should take a look at in the North. I do know that Nunavut Arctic College does offer a community lands administration program and I would hope that in future, if organizations are looking at purchasing courses down South, whether it's through Pathways dollars or land claim dollars, they'll come and talk to the college, I think you'll find that the colleges are both very interested in putting programs together where there is third-party funding available. We, too, would like to see as many programs offered in the North as possible. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Bill 11: Appropriation Act, 1996-97
Item 20: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 227

The Chair

The Chair Vince Steen

Thank you, Mr. Dent. Mr. Henry, do you want to make general comments?

Bill 11: Appropriation Act, 1996-97
Item 20: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 227

Seamus Henry Yellowknife South

Thank you. I have more questions I wanted answers for, Mr. Chairman.

I am not sure we have a quorum for an important item such as this, a large percentage of the budget. We do have a quorum now. Good.

I have some questions and they are mainly coming out of the Minister's program overview as regards schools. Is it the intent of the ministry to have schools in every community to grade 12? Is that the ultimate intention?

Bill 11: Appropriation Act, 1996-97
Item 20: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 227

The Chair

The Chair Vince Steen

Thank you, Mr. Henry. Mr. Dent.

Bill 11: Appropriation Act, 1996-97
Item 20: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 227

Charles Dent

Charles Dent Yellowknife Frame Lake

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. The answer to that is yes.

Bill 11: Appropriation Act, 1996-97
Item 20: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 227

The Chair

The Chair Vince Steen

Thank you, Mr. Dent. Mr. Henry.

Bill 11: Appropriation Act, 1996-97
Item 20: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 227

Seamus Henry Yellowknife South

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I have heard another Member talk about some of the large unemployment rates that we have in some of the communities. What is the department's strategy if we can achieve grade 12 in every community? What is the strategy for these people? What's

the future outlook for them in a community that has 60 per cent unemployment? Is there a strategy for providing some gainful employment if we have these people educated in the communities?

Bill 11: Appropriation Act, 1996-97
Item 20: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 228

The Chair

The Chair Vince Steen

Thank you, Mr. Henry. Mr. Dent.

Bill 11: Appropriation Act, 1996-97
Item 20: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 228

Charles Dent

Charles Dent Yellowknife Frame Lake

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I think what we are trying to do is ensure people are prepared to make productive choices in their lives, and they can do that better if they are better educated. Those productive choices could range from being better prepared to make a living off the land to being able to move to a different community and participate in the wage economy if that is their choice. If people are not well-educated though, they are not in a position to make productive choices.

Bill 11: Appropriation Act, 1996-97
Item 20: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 228

The Chair

The Chair Vince Steen

Thank you, Mr. Dent. Do you have further questions or comments, Mr. Henry?

Bill 11: Appropriation Act, 1996-97
Item 20: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 228

Seamus Henry Yellowknife South

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I think it's fair to say that a common complaint that young people levy now is: I've gone, I've got an education, I went to university and there are still no jobs. I am just wondering what the Minister's response would be in that situation, if that's down south where these comments are made. I've heard it in my own community. Is there any way to deal with that particular situation?

Bill 11: Appropriation Act, 1996-97
Item 20: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 228

The Chair

The Chair Vince Steen

Thank you, Mr. Henry. Mr. Dent.

Bill 11: Appropriation Act, 1996-97
Item 20: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 228

Charles Dent

Charles Dent Yellowknife Frame Lake

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, I have better statistics for Nunavut, right off the top of my head, than I do for the West. For instance, as far as we know, there is not a single Inuit person who has postsecondary education who is unemployed at this point in time. There are almost none who have completed high school who are unemployed. The problem tends to be at the lower levels.

In the East, there is a significant opportunity for growth in the numbers of people who could be employed in the Nunavut government as it is set up. As things stand right now, we don't have enough people trained to take all those positions, so rather than bringing in people from the South, our goal should be to train as many people as possible to make sure that northerners can take the jobs.

In the West, I believe we have a significant opportunity coming up in terms of the non-renewable resource sector. I think there will be hundreds of jobs available in mining in the West in the next few years and, as things stand right now, we don't have enough people in the North trained to take all of those jobs.

So there are opportunities, and I believe that if we get to work and train people that we can help our residents take advantage of those opportunities. I think that there are other opportunities in the course of the next few years my honourable colleague responsible for Economic Development and Tourism will be presenting to northerners. I want to make sure that we have as many northerners as possible prepared to take advantage of those opportunities.

Bill 11: Appropriation Act, 1996-97
Item 20: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 228

The Chair

The Chair Vince Steen

Thank you, Mr. Dent. Do you have further questions or comments, Mr. Henry.

Bill 11: Appropriation Act, 1996-97
Item 20: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 228

Seamus Henry Yellowknife South

Yes, I do, Mr. Chairman. The Minister made an interesting comment I would like to follow up on. I'm not trying to do it verbatim, but the gist of the comment was it would provide an opportunity for students if they were better educated to move to other communities to take up employment. I think it's fair to say that most parents would like to see their children educated in their home community and I think it's fair to say that in the wage economy in which we find ourselves in the Northwest Territories, one of the basic principles of operating within a wage economic is exactly what you said, moving to where the jobs are. Would it not help and would it not be an educational experience if we could have up to, say, grade 10 in communities where students would have to move a community that was maybe a little larger to take their grades 11 and 12 to also help them to ease into that transition of the wage economy where they may have to move to where jobs are? Would that not help facilitate that? I would suggest that I have heard comments many times from students in my own community going on to further education and a large number of them drop out because going to a larger community is extremely difficult to deal with. Would it not be part of the educational process encouraging some of these students to go to larger communities and put the dollars into helping most students get used to being in a different community and moving in the wage economy to where the jobs are at.

Bill 11: Appropriation Act, 1996-97
Item 20: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 228

The Chair

The Chair Vince Steen

Thank you, Mr. Henry. Considering the time, does the committee agree that we are through with general comments and could we possibly report progress? Mr. Dent, would you like to respond to Mr. Henry?

Bill 11: Appropriation Act, 1996-97
Item 20: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 228

Charles Dent

Charles Dent Yellowknife Frame Lake

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, five years ago, we had a terrible graduation rate in the Northwest Territories. It was absolutely embarrassing. We tried the residential school solution in terms of bringing students into larger communities for high school and found it to be a dismal failure. It is early in the process of providing grade extensions to the communities to point to conclusive and resounding success, but I can tell you that the participation rate in high school has gone from about 40 per cent in 1991-92 to over 85 per cent this year. That, alone, indicates a significant promise in getting students to graduate. We have, in the last five years, doubled the numbers of aboriginal students who have graduated in the Northwest Territories. I am not as proud of that because the number is still dismally low, but it does represent a start. I would submit that the start has happened at the same time as the policy of extending grades to smaller communities was put in place.

The Member may also be interested to know that we have demonstrated that it is more cost-effective to extend grades in communities than it is to move students around. It actually costs this government less money to provide the education in their home community than it does to move students around. I would say that, given the lack of success we have had with a residential system in the past, we need to take some time to see whether or not this change in policy has some long-term benefits and effects.

The early indications were very positive, so I think we must continue down the road that we have started and give it a chance. Much in education will change as technology changes, as we become more users of distance technology and we can provide improved education to all communities in the Northwest Territories, including the smallest of communities.

So it looks like we are on the right track. We need to spend the time and the effort to follow through with the process that has been undertaken. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Bill 11: Appropriation Act, 1996-97
Item 20: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 229

The Chair

The Chair Vince Steen

Thank you, Mr. Dent. Mr. Ningark, do you have further general comments?

Bill 11: Appropriation Act, 1996-97
Item 20: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 229

John Ningark Natilikmiot

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. A few years ago, Mr. Chairman, it was common knowledge that the product we were producing at the high school level in the Eastern Arctic was very low, as Mr. Dent responded earlier in his response to Mr. Henry, Mr. Chairman. I take it that philosophy still remains in the Eastern Arctic. Despite the fact that there are tremendous opportunities in the area of jobs in the Eastern Arctic, we have a very low graduation rate, as I understand it, Mr. Chairman. If that is the case, Mr. Chairman, would it not be right to presume that perhaps this is where we should be focusing, putting out more resources to the Eastern Arctic.

As Mr. Henry stated earlier, it is very difficult for young people to move to a larger centre to obtain the level of education that we at least anticipated because they are in a strange environment, they get homesick, they are picked on in some cases -- I am not saying that this is happening all the time, but it's happened in some cases. Would it not be possible, Mr. Chairman, that perhaps we should be putting more resources in more communities, as I think Mr. Krutko alluded to earlier?

Mr. Chairman, my second question is whether the lowest graduation rate within the jurisdiction of this government is in the Nunavut area. Thank you

Bill 11: Appropriation Act, 1996-97
Item 20: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 229

The Chair

The Chair Vince Steen

Thank you, Mr. Ningark. Mr. Dent, would you like to respond?

Bill 11: Appropriation Act, 1996-97
Item 20: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 229

Charles Dent

Charles Dent Yellowknife Frame Lake

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I believe that the first Member was recommending that we invest more in providing grade extensions in the Nunavut region. I think that our policy is to provide grade extensions across the Northwest Territories, and we are putting as much effort into it as we can. The problem we face is that in the difficult financial times we have right now, it is impossible to come up with any more money than what we are proposing for schools. But I think the Member can be assured that we are working as diligently as possible in the department to encourage grade extensions across the Northwest Territories, and will continue to do that.

The Member asked about graduation rates, and I have some numbers available by board that I could provide. I don't have the total for the Nunavut region, but I can provide it by board in the Nunavut region. For instance, in the Baffin region in 1991-92, there were 21 graduates; in 1994-95, there were 39 graduates. In the Keewatin region in 1991-92, we had 20 graduates; in 1994-95, we had 14. In the Kitikmeot in 1991-92, we had six graduates; and, in 1994-95, we had seven. So, as Members can see, we certainly don't have significant numbers of graduates up till now, and I think that there needs to be a continued emphasis on getting students to stay in high school and to complete their educations. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Bill 11: Appropriation Act, 1996-97
Item 20: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 229

The Chair

The Chair Vince Steen

Thank you, Mr. Dent. Are there any further general comments from the Members? Mr. Picco

Bill 11: Appropriation Act, 1996-97
Item 20: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 229

Edward Picco Iqaluit

I move that we report progress of Committee of the Whole.

Bill 11: Appropriation Act, 1996-97
Item 20: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 229

The Chair

The Chair Vince Steen

I have a motion on the floor to report progress. Do we have a quorum? We have a motion on the floor to report progress. All those in favour? All those opposed? The motion is carried.

--- Carried

I shall now rise and report progress to the Speaker. I thank the witnesses.

Bill 11: Appropriation Act, 1996-97
Item 20: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 229

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

The House will come back to order. Item 21, report of Committee of the Whole. Mr. Steen.