Good afternoon. Orders of the day. Item 2, Ministers' statements. Mr. Morin.

Mr. Speaker, I wish to advise Members that the Honourable Kelvin Ng will be absent from the House today and tomorrow to attend the Ministers' Council on Social Policy Renewal Conference as well as the Federal/Provincial/Territorial Ministers of Social Services Conference in St. John's, Newfoundland. Mr. Ng will be back in the House by mid-afternoon on Wednesday.

As well, Mr. Speaker, I will be leaving the House shortly to represent Cabinet at the funeral of Effie Krutko this afternoon. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you. Ministers' statements. Mr. Morin. Minister's Statement 106-13(4): National Unity

Mr. Speaker, I am pleased to announce that later today I will be tabling the agreement reached in Calgary on September 14, 1997 by Canada's Premiers and the Yukon Territorial Leader, except Premier Bouchard of Quebec. This proposal provides a framework and guidelines to consult Canadians on national unity. It is also intended to get the views of Canadians on how to make Canada stronger. The framework for consultation, is, in itself, an example of how the provinces and territories can work together on matters of importance to Canadians and the future of Canada.

A key priority of this government's Agenda for Change is our intention to be heard at the national level. We know that national financial and political development can and will have a real impact on the interests of the Northwest Territories. We know that decisions made in Ottawa and by the provincial Premiers on social policy, education and health issues have a direct impact on the programs and services enjoyed by northern residents. We have taken a more coordinated and focused approach in our relationships with Canada and the provinces to build partnerships and ensure that the views of the Northwest Territories are taken into consideration. With this in mind, I participated in the Calgary meeting with three key priorities.

Mr. Speaker, our first priority was to ensure the continued inclusion and full participation of the Government of the Northwest Territories in an ongoing national unity process. Secondly, we wanted to secure a meaningful role for aboriginal leaders in an ongoing national unity process and thirdly, we wanted to ensure that any themes or principles developed in Calgary or any subsequent national unity process reflected the concepts of democracy, people, children and building for the future.

I am happy to say, Mr. Speaker, that we were successful in reflecting these priorities in the framework for consultation. The framework, Mr. Speaker, proposes that each province and territory will conduct open, grassroots public consultations on how to strengthen the Canadian federation, The framework for discussion on Canadian unity and the guidelines for the process of public consultation which make up this framework were agreed to by all Premiers and the Yukon Territorial Leader to provide a common element to seek the views of Canadians. All provincial and territorial leaders agreed to initiate consultations this fall and report their progress prior to the January, 1998, Team Canada trade mission with the Prime Minister. Each jurisdiction will determine the scope of its own consultations and the most appropriate mechanisms.

Mr. Speaker, over the next couple of months, Northwest Territories' Ministers and MLAs will be consulting with their constituents about concerns and aspirations of northern Canadians on how to make Canada stronger. In addition to constituency meetings and questionnaires, we have the benefit of modern technology with toll free number, electronic mail or web site communication to reach even the most remote areas of this vast territory. On behalf of Cabinet, the Honourable Stephen Kakfwi, Minister of National Constitutional Affairs and the Honourable Jim Antoine, Minister of Aboriginal Affairs will take the lead with me in guiding this public consultation process. This process must involve partnership with the Members of this Assembly and all Northwest Territories' residents. I will be proposing a mechanism today, Mr. Speaker, for the consideration of Members as a vehicle for this partnership.

Mr. Speaker, in addition to public consultations, the Prime Minister committed to host a First Ministers' Meeting to discuss social policy renewal, health care and youth unemployment. The issues that are at the centre of "people" concerns. This meeting is scheduled for early December. I intend to participate with my federal, provincial and territorial colleagues at the meeting to bring forward the views of northerners on these and other national/territorial issues raised during the Northwest Territories' public consultation process.

Also, as part of the framework for discussion on Canadian Unity, all Premiers agreed to meet with aboriginal leaders in Winnipeg on November 18, 1997 to hear their views on strengthening Canada and the role of aboriginal peoples within Canada. In addition to actively participating in the Winnipeg meeting, I fully intend to provide Northwest Territories' aboriginal residents with the opportunity to express their views on the future of Canada and their place in Confederation during the Northwest Territories' public consultation process. I have asked the Honourable Jim Antoine, to take the lead in ensuring the views of aboriginal residents are heard.

Finally, Mr. Speaker, it is essential that we provide a mechanism, a partnership, to ensure that activities of the government and Legislative Assembly in relation to the public consultations and future national unity activities are coordinated and transparent information and updates on activities need to be provided to Cabinet, Members of the Legislative Assembly and Northwest Territories' residents. I propose that a special committee be established to provide that partnership role in coordinating this important activity. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

--Applause

Thank you, Mr. Morin. Ministers' statements. Mr. Kakfwi.

Thank you, Mr. Kakfwi. Ministers' statements. Mr. Henry.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I seek unanimous consent to waive the rules to adjourn the House until 3:15 p.m. to enable Members to attend the funeral of the late Mrs. Effie Krutko, mother of the Member for Mackenzie Delta. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you. The Member for Yellowknife South is seeking unanimous consent to waive the rules to adjourn the House until 3:15 p.m. Do we have any nays? There are no nays. Mr. Henry, you have unanimous consent. We will adjourn until 3:15 p.m.

--Adjourn

I call the House back to order. Item 3, Members' statements. Mr. Enuaraq.

Mr. Speaker, the community of Broughton Island needs housing for their elders. The Hamlet Council in Broughton Island has asked me to bring this to the attention of this Assembly. The community feels that this is a serious need. It is also felt that the need for seniors' housing in Broughton Island has not been addressed by our government. The community would like to know how and when this issue

can be dealt with. I will follow this on their behalf during oral question period. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Enuaraq. Members' statements. Mr. Miltenberger.

Thank you, Mr. Miltenberger. Members' statements. Ms. Thompson.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, today I rise to take a minute to speak about the need for medical solutions to the disease of cancer not only in the north but across Canada. We have all been impacted by cancer either by a loss of a mother, father, family member, colleague or close friend. Unfortunately, this summer I also felt the results of this disease. As Members know I lost my mother-in-law to cancer. It is time we do more to solve cancer. Mr. Speaker, as Canadians we probably know of the efforts of all people across Canada in raising money for cancer research. Together the citizens of my three communities went out during the Terry Fox Run and raised a substantial amount of money to support cancer research. My communities are asking what the Cancer Society is doing with their money to cure cancer? I would like to say how proud I am of the efforts Coral Harbour, Chesterfield Inlet and Repulse Bay, just as I am sure that Members of this House are proud of their communities and the efforts they have made to support cancer research.

(Translation) Mr. Speaker, this has been an ongoing concern to the communities. I would like to congratulate some of the communities that I represent because they have done some fund raising with regards to cancer research. Their proceeds will go to cancer research. Some of my communities have been involved in the Terry Fox Run to raise some funds. Some of the communities are asking to find out what is happening with the cancer research. (Translation ends).

Communities across the Northwest Territories are asking where is the cure for cancer? It is about time the Cancer Society found a cure. Too many people are dying of cancer in the northern communities and across Canada. Mr. Speaker, I would like to continue with my statement if the Members allow me to do so. Thank you.

The Member for Aivilik is seeking unanimous consent to conclude her statement. Do we have any nays? There are no nays. Ms. Thompson, you have unanimous consent.

I also noted in the throne speech to open the First Session of the 36th Parliament of Canada that there is reference to the need to provide all our citizens with access to the highest possible quality of health care. The throne speech recognizes the importance of our health system to the Canadian fabric. I would also like to encourage territorial leaders at all levels to continue to push the federal government, the medical profession and institutions to find a cure for cancer. It is about time, Mr. Speaker.

--Applause

Thank you, Ms. Thompson. Members' statements. Mr. Rabesca.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Today again I would like to talk about our dangerous Highway No. 3. I know that the Department of Transportation is trying to do the best they can to ensure the public safety. However, over the course of this past weekend one of the most dangerous portions on the highway collapsed which caused an area of the road to drop approximately two feet. It was about 15 feet long. When this section dropped, it basically left only one lane of traffic at this spot which could have quite easily caused serious damage to any unfortunate or unsuspecting driver and his vehicle. As this happened this weekend, no one from the department had put warning markers in place to inform drivers which could again have caused an accident. To elaborate on the road in this area, when coming to Yellowknife, you can come around a fairly sharp left hand curve that has a small lake on either side of the road and a very steep embankment, also from either side.

Under normal driving conditions a vehicle if it went off the road could easily roll into one of the lakes. Luckily there was no accident or mishap on this section. This morning when I came into Yellowknife I noticed the Department of Transportation crews were investigating this section and hopefully by tonight it will be repaired. As I have stressed over and over in this House we need the highway from Rae to Yellowknife upgraded before we have a serious accident. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

--Applause

Thank you. Members' statements. Mr. Arlooktoo.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. As Members of this Assembly know, soap stone carvings are a major source of income for the communities of Kimmirut and Cape Dorset. These two communities, which I also represent, are world renowned for producing some of the very best Inuit carvings to come out of the north. To give some idea of the importance of this economy, Kimmirut, with a population of 450 produces more than a half a million dollars worth of art each year. Cape Dorset, with a population of around 1,300 produces more than $2.2 million worth of art annually. Mr. Speaker, this is a significant amount of revenue which touches almost every member of these two communities, especially given the high cost of living and unemployment rates in these communities.

This summer, the Department of Resources, Wildlife and Economic Development in partnership with Qikiqtani inuit Association and its and its business arm Qikiqtaaluk Corporation undertook a clean up of two major quarry sites close to Cape Dorset and Kimmirut. For those that are not familiar with quarry sites, these are basically free for all mining operations that are operated by hand by picks, axe, shovels and crowbars. Not only did the project provide a long overdue clean up of these sites, more than 15 local people were hired to work on the projects. Also, due to the quarry clean up, Mr. Speaker, a half million dollars of high quality carving stone was accessed that otherwise would not have been available. This is a major return on the $100,000 investment to clean up the site. Mr. Speaker, I believe that these sites should be maintained through a smaller scale clean up on an ongoing, annual basis. This will achieve several things. One, it will provide some more local employment. It will require a smaller investment in one large scale cleaning operation every few years and, most importantly, it will improve the safety of these sites. I would like to thank Minister Kakfwi and his departmental staff for their support and I look forward to working with them again to ensure that this important project continues to be an ongoing project. Thank you very much.

Members' statements. Mr. Ootes.

Thank you, Mr. Ootes. Members' statements. Item 4, returns to oral questions. Item 5, recognition of visitors in the gallery. Mr. Todd.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I would like to recognize Ms. Pat Thomas who is the President of the NWTTA who worked extremely hard this past week to come to a satisfactory agreement between ourselves and the teachers that she represents with respect to a collective agreement. I hope that the teachers will give her the kind of support she deserves. Thank you.

--Applause

Recognition of visitors in the gallery, Mr. Henry.

Mr. Speaker, I would like to recognize Bob Sanderson. I know he was here earlier this morning, but I am not sure if he is still here. Bob lived in Yellowknife for a number of years. He is presently the Regional Director of the Financial Management Board in Fort Smith. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Recognition of visitors in the gallery. Item 6, oral questions. Mr. Miltenberger.

Minister of Finance, Mr. Todd.

Mr. Speaker, I will make no comment about my colleagues nice new suit he has on today. Anyway it's a shining example to everybody. Mr. Speaker, I think we have made it clear and we have been consistent, not just this last week, but certainly the last year and a half with respect to our government's position on northern diamonds. Diamond sorting and valuation should be done, must be done in the Northwest Territories to ensure that we have an accurate reflection of the value of the diamonds so that Canadians can get their equal share, if you wish, of royalties and taxation.

To say I am disappointed is an understatement. That a company of this size would make these kinds of comments without any consultation with this goverment, and I do not know what consultation they had with the federal government, but I was certainly disappointed. I am looking forward to meeting, and I am assuming that he wants to meet with us, with Mr. Rothwell later on this week or next week, where both myself and Mr. Kakfwi will be clear with him the ramifications with continuing along this corporate strategy of suggesting that northern diamonds should be sorted on site, in a small and concrete way, and the rest of the jobs and opportunities that will prevail from sorting diamonds from marketing and sales purposes will be done offshore. Surely that would be unacceptable, not just to northerners, I would expect that to be unacceptable to most Canadians.

Oral questions. Supplementary, Mr. Miltenberger.

Mr. Todd.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. It is important to put it in perspective. I think you know, it is not the intention of this government and I would suspect the federal government, to determine board policy as it relates to the diamond industry. What I suggested to the industry in the past, and just recently in London and in Antwerp, that we are developing in consultation with our federal colleagues public policies in the way in which this industry should operate.

I want to remind everybody that this is a unique industry. It is not the same as some would have us believe, as gold, as iron ore or as coal. It is different. It operates differently and it has to have a different set of conditions in our opinion as to how it does operate.

I suggest to him that when we develop public policy to protect the interests of the public, and at the same time maintain, if you want, the profitability of the shareholders of BHP and others; it is important we have a two way dialogue. But it seems to me on this issue of diamond sorting and valuation they have made up their mind in isolation of a two way dialogue between us and our federal colleagues.

I have indicated to the Minister of Indian Affairs and Northern Development as recently as a week and a half ago that we are not happy with this position, and to her credit she has agreed earlier today that she is prepared later on this month to meet with myself and Mr. Kakfwi along with the Minister of Finance, Mr. Martin. The whole issue of diamonds, whether it is on the revenue side through taxes and royalties or it is on valuation and sorting, will be on the agenda for discussion with Mr. Kakfwi and myself. I hope at some point we will be able to have a collective partnership on a strategy that we need to take to ensure that Canadians and Northerner's interests are protected both on the job and in the tax revenues site.

Thank you. Oral questions. Supplementary, Mr. Miltenberger.

Mr. Todd.

Thank you. Mr Speaker. Let me start off by saying that, yes, I think in our initial discussions it would be fair to say when we developed the social and economic agreement which was done a year, year and a half ago with the diamond industry we were very pleased with the spirit of cooperation that we had. Mr. Kakfwi spoke earlier last week

about the impact on the construction of the mine site that it has had with respect to the use of northern businesses and with respect to the use of northern employment. We have been encouraged all along that the corporation has been working in a spirit of partnership to meet the objectives that we set in the social economic agreement over a year, a year and a half ago, I believe.

I am somewhat confused, Mr. Speaker, as to why they are putting the spin on and not discussing with us the next phase, and that is the operation phase of their mine as it relates to the royalties and tax regime which in calculating the royalties and the tax revenues, the diamond sorting and valuation is a critical component of it. It seems to me maybe that we are caught in a communications problem. I am not sure, but certainly if you look at the spirit of cooperation that occurred in the early days when we discussed the construction of the mine it was going extremely well.

I am hoping that Mr. Rothwell will be able to clear up and give us some clarity when we meet with him as to why we seem to be heading for a collision course as it relates to diamond sorting and valuation and as it relates to revenues and royalties. We will be left with no alternative but to bring forward options for this House to protect the fiscal interest of all northerners. Thank you.

Oral questions. Final supplementary, Mr. Miltenberger.

Mr. Todd.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. My understanding is Mr. Rothwell had asked for a meeting with myself and Mr. Kakfwi, I believe it could be sometime this week. He is probably a busy man, no doubt running a large organization like this one, but once our discussions are concluded, I would be only too happy to report back to the House on this important issue. I want to say again for clarity purposes, frankly, I am disappointed that we have got to this stage, that it has been necessary to debate as long as we have had to debate the issue. When you consider that the corporation was at the table with us on the initial stages for whatever reason, whether they are getting the wrong advice from some of their community relations people or others out there, I am not sure, suddenly it is the intent of this government and both Mr. Kakfwi and myself to try to negotiate a reasonable arrangement. There are two critical meetings coming, one hopefully with Mr. Rothwell, either this week or next week, and perhaps more importantly the meeting with Mr. Martin, our Finance Minister, and Ms. Stewart later on this month to see if we can convince them through persuasive discussion about the need for another point of view besides the one they are currently getting from the federal bureaucracy. Thank you.

Thank you. Oral questions. Mr. Enuaraq.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I mentioned in my Member's statement that the community of Broughton Island needs housing for the elders. My understanding is that the Department of Health and Social Services determines which communities need seniors' housing the most. A list is then given to the Housing Corporation which then builds the units. I would like to know if the community of Broughton Island is on the list. Thank you.

Minister of the Northwest Territories Housing Corporation, Mr. Arlooktoo.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I do not have the needs survey and the priority listings in front of me, but I will get the list from the Department of Health and Social Services and provide it to the Members.

Thank you. Oral questions. Mr. Henry.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, my question today is to Mr. Kakfwi, the Minister responsible for Resources, Wildlife and Development. My question is regarding the royalty regime surrounding gold and diamond for the valuation purposes. Mr. Speaker, I understand we have some gold mines producing in the Northwest Territories, and I believe they ship their gold to the mint in Ottawa. My understanding is that the mint in Ottawa further refines that gold. My question to the Minister is, is he aware of how royalties are calculated on gold production that is sent to the mint? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

The Minister responsible for Resources, Wildlife and Economic Development, Mr. Kakfwi.

Thank you. Supplementary, Mr. Henry.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. The Minister stated that he is aware the gold is weighed and recorded for royalty purposes. Can the Minister advise us where that weight is recorded for royalty purposes? Is it recorded at the mine site or is it recorded at the mint after the gold has been refined to 99.9 percent to pure gold? At which stage is the royalties calculated on gold? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Kakfwi.

Oral questions. Supplementary, Mr. Henry.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. It has become apparent to me that the Minister may not be aware of what stage the gold is weighed for royalty purposes. Could I ask the Minister to make that information available to the House? At what point, is it at the mine site, that the royalties are assessed or is after the mint refines the gold? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Kakfwi.

Oral questions. Final supplementary, Mr. Henry.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I appreciate the Minister's response but it certainly was not the question I asked for response. I was asking if he could make available to this House that information as to when the royalties are calculated on gold. Is it at the mine site or is it at the mint after refinement? I would appreciate if the Minister could answer that question if he would make that information available to the

House, if he does not know it now, as he seems not to. Very simple, Mr. Speaker, thank you.

Mr. Kakfwi.

Thank you, the question is taken as notice. Oral questions. Mr. Picco.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, last week I tabled two documents, section 003 of this government's Human Resource Manual and personal gain and the use of information section of the manager's handbook for this government. These documents state the government's ethical guidelines on the awarding of contracts to former senior officials. My question is for the Premier. Does this government have an enforceable set of guidelines that exclude the awarding of its contracts to former senior government officials for a certain time period after they leave public service? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Premier.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. In response to Mr. Picco's question as to whether there is a Government of Northwest Territories policy with respect to contracting former employees, the ethics section of the Human Resource Manual established the government's policy with regard to contracting former employees. Section 003 states that for a one year period from the date their employment ceases, senior officers may not own, operate, control or be employed by any business enterprise within the community in which they were employed and in which they may be in a position to unduly exploit knowledge they gained while employed by the Government of the Northwest Territories. Deputy ministers are further governed by confidentiality provisions of their employment contract that extend beyond the employment period. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Oral questions. Supplementary, Mr. Picco.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Now we have ascertained that the government does have a policy. The government's Human Resource Manual provides that its former senior officials may not seek contractual employment

by this government for a period of one year after they have severed relations. That is what the Minister just said. The Human Resource Manual does not have authority because it cannot impose sanctions. Can the Premier inform this House as to whether or not this government has a written policy which does in fact impose sanctions? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Morin.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I will take that question as notice.

The question is taken as notice. Oral questions. Mr. Picco.

Maybe I will try another way, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Picco. The question has been taken as notice. Mr. Picco, your new question.

Mr. Speaker, this government has policies like the Financial Administration Act which is legislation. It has a contract policy, a tendering policy. Who enforces the Financial Administration Act and the policies of government? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Premier.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. The question was, who enforces the policy of the Financial Management Act? The Financial Management Board will be enforcing that policy. Thank you.

Thank you. Oral questions. Supplementary, Mr. Picco.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, if circumvention of the Act or perceived circumvention is made known to the government, what happens? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Premier.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. We take that case by case and look into it. Thank you.

Thank you. Oral questions. Supplementary, Mr. Picco.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. On the circumvention of the Act or perceived circumvention, if that is brought forward to this government to an individual Minister - as the Premier is now coming back to tell me that indeed the individual Ministers have the right to take that and look at it how they choose and then enforce the Act or not enforce the Act - or is the Premier saying that it goes to the Premier who has ultimate responsibility for the government to make sure that the policy is enforced and not circumvented? Thank you.

Mr. Morin.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. If it is brought to my attention, I would be the one to take a look at it and see whether the policy is being followed properly or not for all senior management positions because ultimately I am responsible for the deputy ministers' positions.

Oral questions. Mr. Picco, supplementary.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, on the circumvention of the policies of this government being enforced, now we have ascertained that Mr. Morin enforces these policies. What are the penalties for circumventing a policy of this government?

That was your final supplementary. Mr. Morin.

What are the penalties? That would be taken on a case by case basis. If the Member feels that any individual that is working for the government today or has worked for the government in the past and has a problem if the person is contracting to the government today or has contracted in the past, it would save a lot of time if he would just say what he is getting at and then I would be able to respond properly. Thank you.

Oral questions. Mr. Henry.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. My question is to Mr. Todd, the Minister responsible for the Aurora Fund. I had asked the Minister some questions on the Aurora Fund on Friday. If the Minister could tell me who appointed Mr. Bailey as a fund manager? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

The Minister of Finance, Mr. Todd.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. If my memory serves me correctly, the board directors made recommendations to myself as the chair of the board and I appointed Mr. Bailey.

Thank you. Oral questions. Supplementary, Mr. Henry.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I believe the Minister also told us on Friday, he had stated to the best of his understanding there was no requirement in this government to make any guarantees to the fund. What I would like to know from the Minister is if loans do go bad, as sometimes they do, is this government responsible for any of those loans that would go bad?

Mr. Todd.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. N-o spells no.

Thank you. Oral questions. Just again, to remind the Members about question period. During question period, you must not repeat any earlier question which was answered, taken as notice or to which an answer was refused at that sitting. It means that during this 4th Session, Members cannot repeat the same question that has been asked already. Just a reminder. Mr. O'Brien.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, my question is to the Minister responsible for the Aurora Fund. Mr. Speaker, can the Minister tell this House who are the members of the committee that oversee the Aurora Fund? Thank you.

Minister of Finance, Mr. Todd.

Mr. Speaker, I think that it is important to clarify. I did not seem to be able to get my point across the other day that this is not a fund of government. This is an independent fund of foreign investors. The investment committee is made up of three independent people in southern Canada. One of them is, I know for sure, the financier who is backing it, Mr. David Taylor, who puts up the money for the fund from Pacific Western. Another one is a banker, I believe, from the Bank of Montreal. Another one is an investment counsellor from Toronto. I would have to get the names for my colleague and advise him tomorrow.

Thank you. Oral questions. Supplementary, Mr. O'Brien.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, the Minister indicated that this government appointed the manager of the fund. Can we assume that this government also appointed these committee members?

Mr. Todd.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I did not say that the government appointed the manager of this fund. I said that the board of directors recommended the appointment of Mr. Bailey and I concurred as the chairman of the board.

Oral question. Supplementary, Mr. O'Brien

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, would the Minister have knowledge as to which groups, individuals or companies have accessed this fund to date and what types of applications we are receiving for this fund?

Mr. Todd.

Mr. Cotes asked me the same question. Should I ask Mr. Cotes' banker how much he borrows from the bank? These are private matters between private funds. This is not a government fund. It is an independent fund funded by immigrant investment money that was set up in a manner to provide opportunities for northern business to access it. I am not asking the board of directors and announcing to this House who gets money. The same as I would not expect the bank to do the same. It is ridiculous.

Oral questions. Final supplementary, Mr. O'Brien.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, if this fund is at such an arm's length from this government, why did the Minister appoint the manager in the first place? Thank you.

Mr. Todd.

I promised myself that I would be more patient this term, Mr. Speaker. Sometimes the questions

asked by my honourable colleagues border on ridiculous, but I will try to explain once again, nice and slow. What this government did in an effort to provide a stimulus and to provide new access to the capital was seed the immigrant investment fund for the tune of $380,000 to get it up and going. That money was supposed to be returned from the Aurora Fund back to the government. I made a commitment last week to find out if that has gone back. This fund is an independent fund that this government should be proud of in relationship to being, the seed money to get the thing moving. I do not know how else to answer the question. If the Members want a complete briefing on the Aurora, I would be only to happy to do it. If they are asking me around the table here, who is going to get access to the money, it is just not on. Period. The same as in any other lending institutions. That is why I say the question boards on ridiculous.

Oral questions. Mr. Roland.