Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I would have to check into that. I do not have that detail at hand. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, I think the point we are trying to make here, I guess, on the $500,000 for casuals, is that it seems that the discretion for hiring these casuals for less than three months in many cases lie with the department managers. If that is the case, the concern I think that Mr. Erasmus and some of the Members have been trying to bring forward is: what kind of policies or conditions or controls do we have in place to make sure that managers, when they are hiring casuals, do not circumvent the policies and programs that we have in place here. For example, if Melvin Flint, who is a department manager in Tough Luck Bay, wants to hire a casual over a two month period and that casual could be his best friend, he has the ability right now to go to that person and do a sole-sourced contract to hire that person. In some instances that seems to be circumventing the regulations that we have in place. I guess the question to the Premier is, is that the case and if it is the case, how can we fix it? If it is not the case, can he give us some information on what policies and guidelines are in place to stop that from occurring?

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. We have in our department a human resource officer that watches for those types of things so managers do not hire cousins or other people from the same part of the country where they originate from. They also have a manual that they have to follow so that we do not get that. They follow the policy as well as the affirmative action policy. We also have in place audits from the personnel secretariat. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, the Premier just brought up a good point. He said that we have personnel people within the departments to make sure that the

manager is accountable. There has, I guess the perception here would be that the personnel person might feel intimidated by the manager, so would not probably blow the whistle, as it were, if the person was doing that. I think that was the concern. By the time the audit is completed at the end of a yearly basis, four, five, six, 10 people could have been hired on a casual basis in these individual departments and I think that is the point that Mr. Erasmus and some of the Members have been bringing forward. My questions to the Premier would be: has he looked at any way of tightening this up so that managers are not able to circumvent the policies and procedures book?

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Once again, our managers are paid to manage and we pay our managers a fairly good dollar to make the proper decisions, follow the policies and programs, all policies of this government, including the hiring practices of this government. There are clear set guidelines. We do audit them, and I would not entertain having a police force in to look over managers shoulders every couple of months. If we have to do that, then we might as well get rid of that manager sooner than later. If the manager is hiring four, five or six of his friends, then he will not be a manager in this government too much longer. Mr. Gilmour has the responsibility. All audits come to him to watch out for those types of things and if they are happening in any given department, they will be taken care of accordingly. Thank you.

Agreed.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. The Minister had indicated that there is an audit that is done. Could we get an explanation of how this audit is done, and how often and that type of thing?

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. The secretariat will conduct regular audits of department staffing activities. While these will be frequent at first, an annual audit should be significant after the first year of the delegation of that authority. Audits are intended to determine compliance with establishing procedures. Audit results will be provided to the deputy ministers and will contain recommendations to correct procedural deficiencies. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Could we get an explanation of how the actual audit is done?

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. An audit is done by going through the staffing files. All the staffing that has occurred that year to check the audit, if it complies with our Affirmative Action Policy as well as the lay offs of our employees, if they have had the opportunity to get work again with the government. It checks all of those things. The staffing reviews for 1996 have been completed for the following departments and boards, Mackenzie Regional Health Services, Workers' Compensation Board, Department of Public Works and Services, Department of Health and Social Services, Department of the Executive, FMBS, the Aurora College, Department of Transportation, and South Slave Divisional Education Council. Reviews are scheduled very shortly for the following, the Department of Education, Culture and Employment and the Department of Justice. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Are we being told that every position that is staffed is actually looked at in terms of who is in the employment pool, to ensure that there is no one who was eligible for affirmative action status, to ensure that they were not overlooked?