Members Present
Honourable Jim Antoine, Honourable Goo Arlooktoo, Honourable Stephen Kakfwi, Honourable Kelvin Ng, Mr. Barnabas, Honourable Charles Dent, Mr. Enuaraq, Mr. Erasmus, Mr. Evaloarjuk, Mrs. Groenewegen, Mr. Henry, Mr. Krutko, Mr. Miltenberger, Mr. Ningark, Mr. O'Brien, Mr. Ootes, Mr. Picco, Mr. Rabesca, Mr. Roland, Mr. Steen, Honourable Manitok Thompson, Honourable John Todd.
Oh, God, may your spirit and guidance be in us as we work for the benefit of all our people, for peace and justice in our land and for constant recognition of the dignity and aspirations of those whom we serve. Amen.
Item 1: Prayer
Item 1: Prayer
Page 1213
The Deputy Speaker John Ningark
Thank you, Mr. Ootes. Good morning. Item 2, Ministers' statements. Mr. Dent.
Minister's Statement 81-13(4): Minister's Meetings
Item 2: Ministers' Statements
Page 1213
Charles Dent Yellowknife Frame Lake
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, yesterday the chair of the Ordinary Members' Caucus rose to give a statement critical of the meeting/planning skills of Cabinet Ministers.
-- Shame! Shame!
Minister's Statement 81-13(4): Minister's Meetings
Item 2: Ministers' Statements
Page 1213
Charles Dent Yellowknife Frame Lake
Recognizing the importance of dealing with issues quickly, given the short period planned for this session and, Mr. Speaker, remembering that today is Friday, I along with other Members of the Executive Council felt bound to respond to the criticism today. Mr. Speaker, Mr. Ootes' statement on behalf of the Ordinary Members' Caucus made note of the short period we will be in session, that the dates have been known for at least three months and that many have made sacrifices to be here in Yellowknife for the session.
Minister's Statement 81-13(4): Minister's Meetings
Item 2: Ministers' Statements
Page 1213
An Hon. Member
Bravo!
Minister's Statement 81-13(4): Minister's Meetings
Item 2: Ministers' Statements
Page 1213
Charles Dent Yellowknife Frame Lake
One of the "critical items" we need to discuss is the Northern Employment Strategy, according to the Ordinary Members' Caucus. Mr. Speaker, there is no question that Cabinet regrets that all Executive Council Members could not be here for the first two days of this session. As Mr. Ootes noted in his statement on behalf of the Ordinary Members' Caucus, the Premier could not have been expected to shun the other western Premiers by not attending their meeting, but OMC obviously has some concern about the meetings of other Ministers. Mr. Speaker, Mr. Ootes' statement noted that only four Ministers were here on Tuesday. So, Mr. Speaker, we have asked to examine the videotapes from that day. Those of us who were here want to know what one Executive Member was doing that made them invisible. If we can figure it out, we may be better able to avoid the questions of Ordinary Members.
Cabinet agrees Mr. Speaker that the work of this House must take priority over other issues and it is only after careful consideration that ministerial travel is approved when the House is in session. In the past such travel has only occurred when issues of importance beyond the constituency level are involved, for instance, meetings with other Premiers or other provincial/territorial Cabinet Ministers or where issues of economic or social importance of wide range will be on the table. Such meetings as the meetings with oil and gas companies and land owners that Mr. Kakfwi attended in Norman Wells to discuss jobs and thereby new taxes for this government. Such meetings as those with the Baffin Regional Health and Social Services Board in Iqaluit attended by Mr. Ng to discuss devolution of responsibility for social services to one of the largest regions in the Northwest Territories and where he also met with the Canadian Police Chiefs' Association Committee on policing in aboriginal communities.
Mr. Speaker, you can imagine our surprise on finding yesterday during Committee of the Whole when we were scheduled to talk about that and I quote again that "critical item", the Northern Employment Strategy, that the business of this House had to come to a stop when some Members had to attend a previously set meeting with constituents.
-- Shame! Shame!
Minister's Statement 81-13(4): Minister's Meetings
Item 2: Ministers' Statements
Page 1213
Charles Dent Yellowknife Frame Lake
Mr. Speaker, we had it wrong! We would like to extend our thanks to the Ordinary Members who have reminded us that our most important function is to meet with our constituents and that they must take precedence over our business here. Mr. Speaker, you have our commitment, as of now, that Executive Council Members will only miss meetings of this House to attend meetings with constituents.
-- Bravo! Bravo!
Minister's Statement 81-13(4): Minister's Meetings
Item 2: Ministers' Statements
Page 1213
Minister's Statement 81-13(4): Minister's Meetings
Item 2: Ministers' Statements
Page 1213
The Deputy Speaker John Ningark
Thank you, Mr. Dent. I also wish you a good Friday today. Thank you. Ministers' statements. Item 3, Members' statement. Mr. Evaloarjuk. Qujannamiik.
Member's Statement 355-13(4): Numbers Of Members In The Nunavut Legislature
Item 3: Members' Statements
Page 1214
Mark Evaloarjuk Amittuq
(Translation) Thank you, Mr. Speaker. It has been stated by people who were against gender parity for the new Legislature in Nunavut that having dual legislators would cost us more to maintain the numbers. The recommendation in Footprints 2 is to have been 20 and 22 legislators in Nunavut. In order to save some dollars, I would suggest that we lessen those numbers to 16 or 18 members.
For example, if we take away four of the positions, we can save approximately one million dollars and reallocate that funding toward the communities needs. It is difficult to predict the future and if the economy remains the way it is. It is important that we first start off with fewer legislators for the new government. It seems backward for us to start off with a higher number and perhaps start cutting back on those positions in the future, dependant on our economy. When I first was elected to this House in 1975, there were only 16 legislators for all of the Northwest Territories. Over the years that number has risen and we now have 24 representatives of the electoral boundaries. I believe we have to start off with fewer numbers in the House and expand from there, basing it on our population growth. Thank you, Mr. Speaker. (Translation ends)
-- Applause
Member's Statement 355-13(4): Numbers Of Members In The Nunavut Legislature
Item 3: Members' Statements
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The Deputy Speaker John Ningark
Qujannamiik (Translation) Thank you, Mr. Evaloarjuk (Translation ends). Members' statements. Mr. Picco.
Member's Statement 356-13(4): Appreciation To Iqaluit Pages
Item 3: Members' Statements
Page 1214
Edward Picco Iqaluit
Mr. Speaker, I am glad to see that the Ministers are in full force here today. Thank you, Mr. Speaker, I would like to speak a little about those seven wonderful young people from Iqaluit that have served as our Pages here in the Assembly this week. I think that Members would agree with me that the Pages have been polite as well as hard working and have shared in a few jokes with Minister Todd and Members Barnabas and Groenewegen.
I should also mention each of them by name and just talk a little bit about them. Sean Doherty is becoming nationally known for his geographical knowledge and recently competed in a national competition in Ottawa where he finished in the top ten. Karla Serkoak is the daughter of well known Iqaluit teacher and traditional Inuit drummer, David Serkoak. Karla and her dad have appeared in many concerts and events as drummers carrying on traditional Inuit musical skills.
William Tagalik has been really enjoying himself here in Yellowknife. When not listening to his CD, he has been giving me road directions while I have tried to navigate Yellowknife's streets. Megan Levy and Stephanie Rose have been like teaching me like how to talk like well like different, sure, like well. Valley talk there, Mr. Speaker. Alex Stubbing has been staying in the old town section of Yellowknife and enjoys being dropped off last at the end of the work day. I think Alex really enjoys my singing. Fauna Lee Kingdon has like well like been really like hitting the stores and malls of Yellowknife with her mother, Eliza Kingdon, who is also the chaperon with the students.
I would like to thank the parents, teachers and staff of Inuksuk High School in Iqaluit who helped facilitate the Pages coming to Yellowknife. I would also like to thank the billets here in Yellowknife and Canadian Airlines for giving me a good rate to bring the Pages and Ms. Kingdon over from Iqaluit. Finally, I would like to thank Chuck and Muriel Tolley, former residents of Iqaluit but now living here in Yellowknife. Muriel and Chuck were not only billets but held a barbecue in honour of the Pages. The staff and Members of the Assembly have been most helpful. A special thanks to Eliza Kingdon for her patience, administrative and logistical skills. Finally, to the Pages, thank you. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
-- Applause
Member's Statement 356-13(4): Appreciation To Iqaluit Pages
Item 3: Members' Statements
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The Deputy Speaker John Ningark
Thank you, Mr. Picco. I would also, on behalf of the Legislative Assembly, thank the Pages. Member's statements. Mr. Rabesca.
Member's Statement 357-13(4): Rae Edzo High School Graduation
Item 3: Members' Statements
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James Rabesca North Slave
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, over the past number of years the leadership of the Northwest Territories has emphasized the importance of education to our young people. We now have a higher quality of education in all our communities which has resulted in a higher degree of educated residents. This will and is providing better lifestyle and a more comfortable way of life. Tomorrow, Mr. Speaker, Rae Edzo will be celebrating the achievement of eight young adults that have persevered through hard work. In support of them we will be able to say that they have the appropriate diploma from Grade 12. These individuals and others across the Northwest Territories will now be wondering what they will do with the rest of their lives. Those, I hope, will continue to pursue their educations or they will join the work force. For these young people, tomorrow will be a special day. Others will be celebrating their grad later next month. To all those students I would like to wish them congratulations and please consider continuing your education. You are the future of our country. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
-- Applause
Member's Statement 357-13(4): Rae Edzo High School Graduation
Item 3: Members' Statements
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The Deputy Speaker John Ningark
Thank you, Mr. Rabesca. The honourable Member for Yellowknife Centre, Mr. Ootes.
Member's Statement 358-13(4): Fairness To GNWT Employees
Item 3: Members' Statements
Page 1214
Jake Ootes Yellowknife Centre
Constitution, Mr. Speaker, that is what I would like to talk about today. Yesterday, we heard from Mr. Antoine, the chairman of the Constitutional Working Group and Mr. Miltenberger who is also a member of that group. I would like to add my perspective to what has transpired on the constitutional issues. I would like to talk about some nuts and bolts and matters. I will refer to my letter that I wrote to the
Constitutional Working Group and to the western Members of the Legislative Assembly.
1. Timeframe, it was an issue by a lot of people and it has been dealt with and recognized that we should make sure that we put some brakes on. The document was flawed and it has been agreed that we should rewrite and redraft the document.
2. The need for further public consultation. Second round of consultation is scheduled for this fall. A constitutional conference has been scheduled for this spring. That is good progress, Mr. Speaker.
Now I would like to talk about an issue that I put forward and I would like to explain. I recommended that we expand the Constitutional Working Group by two members from the general public. There was concern out there about the imbalance of representation between the aboriginal and non-aboriginal representatives. No doubt some people will argue this point, but this will not satisfy those who had presented this viewpoint. What has happened since then? Mr. Kakfwi has generously and graciously given up his seat to Mr. Dent. I am sure that was not an easy decision for Mr. Kakfwi to do because he has been a proponent, a good follower and a contributor to the constitutional process over the years and an excellent participant. To further balance this inequity, Mr. Miltenberger offered to give up his seat and he offered it to myself or another Yellowknife Member, Mr. Henry. Neither of us could accept. I could not accept because, in my opinion, it was exactly the point I was making. We had Mr. Kakfwi step aside and that would have meant an area that could not be represented. Mr. Miltenberger, I felt, should continue to represent his area.
The second reason that I did not want to accept was I was pushing the idea of...
Member's Statement 358-13(4): Fairness To GNWT Employees
Item 3: Members' Statements
Page 1215
The Deputy Speaker John Ningark
Mr. Ootes. Thank you. Mr. Ootes, your allotted time for Member's statements is over. Mr. Ootes.
Member's Statement 358-13(4): Fairness To GNWT Employees
Item 3: Members' Statements
Page 1215
Member's Statement 358-13(4): Fairness To GNWT Employees
Item 3: Members' Statements
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The Deputy Speaker John Ningark
Thank you. The honourable Member for Yellowknife Centre is seeking unanimous consent to conclude his statement. Are there any nays? No nays. Conclude your statement.
Member's Statement 358-13(4): Fairness To GNWT Employees
Item 3: Members' Statements
Page 1215
Jake Ootes Yellowknife Centre
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. As I say, my point was, I wanted to expand the membership on the committee by public representation. I am a member, an ex officio member, of the committee and I have attended in the past and will continue to attend the meetings. I was convinced and still am of the conviction that some outside membership would prove beneficial. It cannot always be a government to government process. It needs to be a people process, from the public. However, I do admit good progress has been made. There is now ad hoc representation on a more formalized basis of the women's groups, Members from the Western Caucus and the municipalities, and the meetings have now been opened to the general public.
Mr. Speaker, I do agree that good progress has been made. I would like to state that the next meeting of the working group will be June 5th and 6th in Yellowknife. Also, I would like to acknowledge that there is a full contingent of Ordinary Members here this morning, Mr. Speaker. Thank you very much.
-- Applause
Member's Statement 358-13(4): Fairness To GNWT Employees
Item 3: Members' Statements
Page 1215
The Deputy Speaker John Ningark
Thank you, Mr. Ootes. The honourable Member for Inuvik, Mr. Roland.
Member's Statement 359-13(4): Fairness To GNWT Employees
Item 3: Members' Statements
Page 1215
Floyd Roland Inuvik
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, on many occasions I have stood up in this House and spoke of fairness and of doing things equally and trying to lessen the impact on people that we serve in the Northwest Territories. Mr. Speaker, there are more concerns being raised by the employees of this government as work is being undertaken to further look at how we can achieve more orderly government when it comes to our employees. I use those words because what has been recently happening is there has been staff of this government going through two communities to do job evaluation reviews and the concern is being raised by the constituents I represent is what is this government up to at this time. Are we looking at saving more money in a different way? I believe those concerns need to be addressed and I will be asking questions later during question period to the appropriate Ministers. Thank you.
Member's Statement 359-13(4): Fairness To GNWT Employees
Item 3: Members' Statements
Page 1215
The Deputy Speaker John Ningark
Thank you, Mr. Roland. The honourable Member for Thebacha, Mr. Miltenberger.
Member's Statement 360-13(4): Resolution Of Outstanding Union Issues
Item 3: Members' Statements
Page 1215
Michael Miltenberger Thebacha
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. In this House this week two major issues have been brought up through question period and Members' statements and those are the issues of pay equity and the outstanding issue of settlement allowances that affects communities in the South Slave, mainly Yellowknife, Hay River and Fort Smith. Mr. Speaker, these are long outstanding issues that are in dispute between the Union of Northern Workers and this government. The comments made in the House yesterday by the Minister for FMBS, Mr. Todd, indicate to me that the door seems to be open for the possibility of a negotiated resolution to these issues outside the legal process which, as we know, has dragged on for years and could drag on for years yet to come and is costly and will be protracted.
Mr. Speaker, I would like to encourage the involved parties to in fact make that extra effort to try to resolve these issues so that we can have these matters cleared up and get on to the other issues they will have to deal with that are very important and affect all of our constituents be we elected officials or UNW executive. To my mind, Mr. Speaker, the issue is very simple. These issues involve significant amounts of money. As an organization, we have to be able to put our House in order because, one way or the other, if it costs money the money is going to have to come from somewhere and we have spent two years trying to get our House in order financially. We have cut nearly 1,000 jobs and almost $200 million out of our budget.
We have to be able to resolve these issues in an affordable, efficient and effective way so that we do not end up cutting off our nose to spite our face where there will be a pirate victory where there will be no real victors because money will change hands and, at the end, it will be the people of the north that suffer because the money has to come from somewhere and that usually means program cuts or possibly, more layoffs.
Mr. Speaker, I would just like to close by strongly encouraging the parties to make every effort for the benefit of not only their respective organizations but all of us to resolve these issues as soon as possible. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
-- Applause
Member's Statement 360-13(4): Resolution Of Outstanding Union Issues
Item 3: Members' Statements
Page 1216
The Deputy Speaker John Ningark
Thank you, Mr. Miltenberger. The honourable Member for Mackenzie Delta, Mr. Krutko.
Member's Statement 361-13(4): Reductions To Community Services
Item 3: Members' Statements
Page 1216
David Krutko Mackenzie Delta
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. My statement today is with the whole area of cuts in communities, especially in relation to my community. I have raised this many times in this House, talking about the whole idea of mental health, alcohol and drug programs with regard to the Tl'oondih, what is happening with Delta House and now the late round of cuts have hit my communities again in regards to the cuts to the mental health workers in the communities. I believe this is a significant step backwards to this House, talks about community empowerment, community wellness and giving the communities the tools to carry out the work that is needed to ensure that we have safe and healthy means and access for people who are in desperate need.
In regards to Fort McPherson, five years ago I believe was the last time we had a suicide and I believe it is because of the mental health worker coming into our community after that incident and ensuring that there was some sort of method so people had access to someone that they can talk to about their problems and their emotions. I believe with this drastic step that this government has taken to cut out the mental health workers in the communities, I believe we are disempowering the communities not empowering them.
I stood up in this House several times asking questions to the Minister in regards to alcohol and drug programs in our regions and how money is going to be spent. He keeps giving me the answer that, well it is going to be downloaded to the health boards, but I do not believe I heard that the mental health workers were also going to be part of this slash and cut process of this government.
So at the appropriate time, Mr. Speaker, I will be asking the Minister a question on this matter and in regards to ensure those communities that there will be power given to the communities and not just to the health boards. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Member's Statement 361-13(4): Reductions To Community Services
Item 3: Members' Statements
Page 1216
The Deputy Speaker John Ningark
Thank you, Mr. Krutko. Members' statements. Thank you. Mr. Erasmus.
Member's Statement 362-13(4): Adult Education
Item 3: Members' Statements
Page 1216
Roy Erasmus Yellowknife North
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. My statement today is on adult education. During this session we have heard about the new Northern Employment Strategy and the Standing Committee on Government Operations are going to table a report on Affirmative Action and Human Resource Management. Both stress the need to increase employment opportunities for northerners.
For me, there is one critical element in making this happen - education. In ten to 20 years our children will be the professionals and business people in the north. A strong school system is important to make this happen. We can see results already from grade extensions. There are more graduates and more students staying in school, but this is only half of the equation.
Mr. Speaker, I have spoken on this many times. In the short term, we need to support the adults who did not have the same access to education as children today currently have. I believe you are never too old to learn. Aurora and Arctic College are full of mature students. Some of them are changing careers, some of them may finally enter the workforce because of this.
Mr. Speaker, there are many people capable and who need the helping hand of adult basic education. While there is a cost, there is a greater cost to them if they stay on income support for life and that cost is also reflected in government spending. There is an interest out there. We have to make sure that people can get the education they need to grow and learn and we make sure that they do not lose their interest while they are waiting to get into classes.
In many areas we have talked about spending a bit more now to have savings later. Nowhere is there a better example of this than in the area of adult education. Mr. Speaker, the Finance Minister recently indicated that we are going to be spending $16 million to help people gain employment through the Northern Employment Strategy. I am glad to see that Cabinet has been listening to my many statements on adult education and that $2 million of that Northern Employment Strategy will be for adult education. I can only say, Mr. Speaker, bravo.
-- Applause
Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery
Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery
Page 1216
The Deputy Speaker John Ningark
Thank you, Mr. Erasmus. Item 4, returns to oral questions. Returns to oral questions. Item 5. At
this time, I would like to recognize up in the public gallery the students from Tree of Peace adult education class.
-- Applause
Thank you. Welcome to the Assembly. Recognition of visitors in the gallery. Item 6, oral questions. Mr. Evaloarjuk.
Question 498-13(4): Edo Vacancy In Hall Beach
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 1217
Mark Evaloarjuk Amittuq
(Translation) Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I would like to ask a question to the Minister of Economic Development. In Hall Beach, the community that I represent, I am sorry you were not able to hear me. I would like to ask the Minister of Economic Development in the community of Hall Beach there was an economic development officer and he has just taken on another job and left the community. The community misses him and is asking whether they are going to be getting another economic development officer. That is my question to the Minister. (Translation ends)
Question 498-13(4): Edo Vacancy In Hall Beach
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 1217
The Deputy Speaker John Ningark
(Translation) Thank you, Mr. Evaloarjuk. Mr. Kakfwi. (Translation ends)
Return To Question 498-13(4): Edo Vacancy In Hall Beach
Question 498-13(4): Edo Vacancy In Hall Beach
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 1217
Stephen Kakfwi Sahtu
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. The position is vacant but the position is still there for the community. It will be filled once the process starts to look for someone to fill that position. Thank you.
Return To Question 498-13(4): Edo Vacancy In Hall Beach
Question 498-13(4): Edo Vacancy In Hall Beach
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 1217
The Deputy Speaker John Ningark
(Translation) Thank you, Mr. Kakfwi. (Translation ends) Mr. Picco.
Question 499-13(4): Med-emerg Report On Hospital Construction
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 1218
Edward Picco Iqaluit
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, just following up on some questions yesterday asked by the honourable Member from Inuvik to Mr. Kelvin Ng, the Minister of Health. My first question, Mr. Speaker, is the contract by the company Med-Emerg, can the Minister inform me if that report has actually been released now publicly at this time?
Question 499-13(4): Med-emerg Report On Hospital Construction
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 1218
The Deputy Speaker John Ningark
Thank you. The honourable Minister for Health and Social Services, Mr. Ng.
Return To Question 499-13(4): Med-emerg Report On Hospital Construction
Question 499-13(4): Med-emerg Report On Hospital Construction
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 1218
Kelvin Ng Kitikmeot
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, it has not formally been publicly released. Actually, I am in the process of getting conveyance letters drafted for my signature today. However, I can say that informally, through the NWT Health Care Association, that board chairs and CEOs have had an opportunity to receive an advance copy of the report, Mr. Speaker. Thank you.
Return To Question 499-13(4): Med-emerg Report On Hospital Construction
Question 499-13(4): Med-emerg Report On Hospital Construction
Item 6: Oral Questions
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The Deputy Speaker John Ningark
Thank you. Supplementary, Mr. Picco.
Supplementary To Question 499-13(4): Med-emerg Report On Hospital Construction
Question 499-13(4): Med-emerg Report On Hospital Construction
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 1218
Edward Picco Iqaluit
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I noticed the media are already reporting the contents of said report before I or I am sure some of the other Members in this House to have had a chance look at it. That is disappointing. Following up on the Med-Emerg report, that has not been officially released publicly but there seems to be in wide circulation especially in the media, I would like to ask some questions.
Mr. Speaker, one of the prime reasons for having the Med-Emerg report is to look at health care for now, right now in the present in the Northwest Territories and later on in the year 2000 and beyond and the facilitation for new hospital facilities. Can the Minister update this House on where we are right now with the new major health facility which is in Inuvik and in the Baffin region and also an indication that there may be other facilities looked at? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Supplementary To Question 499-13(4): Med-emerg Report On Hospital Construction
Question 499-13(4): Med-emerg Report On Hospital Construction
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 1218
The Deputy Speaker John Ningark
Thank you. Mr. Ng.
Further Return To Question 499-13(4): Med-emerg Report On Hospital Construction
Question 499-13(4): Med-emerg Report On Hospital Construction
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 1218
Kelvin Ng Kitikmeot
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. The report recommends in respect to both the Inuvik and Iqaluit hospitals that there be replacement project for those two aging facilities. It also recommends, particularly in the Keewatin and Kitikmeot regions, that there be some form of enhanced health care facilities because of the fact that those are the only two regions in the territories that do not have that type of facility available. Mr. Speaker, thank you.
Further Return To Question 499-13(4): Med-emerg Report On Hospital Construction
Question 499-13(4): Med-emerg Report On Hospital Construction
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 1218
The Deputy Speaker John Ningark
Thank you. Second supplementary, Mr. Picco.
Supplementary To Question 499-13(4): Med-emerg Report On Hospital Construction
Question 499-13(4): Med-emerg Report On Hospital Construction
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 1218
Edward Picco Iqaluit
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I understand as a report it publicly now in the media that the Med-Emerg consultants have recommended that the GNWT set up a committee to figure out how to spread new hospital construction money between Cambridge Bay, Rankin, Inuvik, and the Baffin region. It is going to be called the capital coordinating committee and that is there a recommendation. I wonder when Mr. Ng will be getting back to this House and to the people of the Northwest Territories on the recommendations made by Med-Emerg and has he accepted those recommendations or is the department still reviewing them? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Supplementary To Question 499-13(4): Med-emerg Report On Hospital Construction
Question 499-13(4): Med-emerg Report On Hospital Construction
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 1218
The Deputy Speaker John Ningark
Thank you. Mr. Ng.
Further Return To Question 499-13(4): Med-emerg Report On Hospital Construction
Question 499-13(4): Med-emerg Report On Hospital Construction
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 1218
Kelvin Ng Kitikmeot
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, as all Members can appreciate, there is a considerable amount of recommendations in that report. I can say, for certain, we have not accepted all of the recommendations, but a majority of them are sound. In respect to the issue about the capital coordinating committee, that is one of the recommendations for facilitating the construction for bringing on line the capital needs in the Northwest Territories. I have not formalized any position on that yet. I have to still, as I indicated yesterday in response to the honourable Member for Inuvik, still seek some resolution with the board chairs on a framework for continuing on in trying to coordinate bringing those capital projects on line, Mr. Speaker. Thank you.
Further Return To Question 499-13(4): Med-emerg Report On Hospital Construction
Question 499-13(4): Med-emerg Report On Hospital Construction
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 1218
The Deputy Speaker John Ningark
Thank you. Final supplementary, Mr. Picco.
Supplementary To Question 499-13(4): Med-emerg Report On Hospital Construction
Question 499-13(4): Med-emerg Report On Hospital Construction
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 1218
Edward Picco Iqaluit
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I understand that, as reported now in the media, and in my conversations with some of the birth rate corporations in my region are willing to come in with financing to help in the construction of the replacement of the much needed Baffin hospital that was built in 1962. As we have brought up over the past year and a half, with the federal agreement that was in place in 1988.
My question to the Minister is, is he looking at the accessing of these outside financing to help in these difficult fiscal times of this government so that these projects could go on time and on schedule before the year 1999 or 2000? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Supplementary To Question 499-13(4): Med-emerg Report On Hospital Construction
Question 499-13(4): Med-emerg Report On Hospital Construction
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 1218
The Deputy Speaker John Ningark
Thank you. Mr. Ng.
Further Return To Question 499-13(4): Med-emerg Report On Hospital Construction
Question 499-13(4): Med-emerg Report On Hospital Construction
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 1218
Kelvin Ng Kitikmeot
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, it is important to clarify, first of all, to the honourable Member that the media does not have a copy of the Med-Emerg report. As I indicated, we have passed on advanced copies to the chairs and the CEOs of the health care association of boards throughout the territories. They have had some discussions with it.
The media report that the honourable Member refers to is the fact that myself and the Deputy Minister were up in Iqaluit speaking to the Baffin Regional Health and Social Services Board on some of the contents of the report and the discussion on the framework for some of the consultations. The media were present and that may be where some of the comments were coming from. As well, the Deputy Minister did have an interview with a member of the media while we were in Iqaluit. I just wanted to clarify that is the case in respect to the media reporting of this issue.
In respect to the issue of outside financing sources. Yes, I have said right from the start. In following questions from the honourable Member from Inuvik and from Iqaluit that we have to look at some creative financing options to try to bring these projects on line because of the fact that this government has some financial restrictions and constraints in the budgets that we have brought forward. We have to look at all avenues that are out there to hopefully be successful in bringing these initiatives on line, Mr. Speaker. Thank you.
Further Return To Question 499-13(4): Med-emerg Report On Hospital Construction
Question 499-13(4): Med-emerg Report On Hospital Construction
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 1218
The Deputy Speaker John Ningark
Thank you, Mr. Ng. Oral questions. Member for Yellowknife Centre, Mr. Ootes.
Question 500-13(4): Departure Of Yellowknife Doctors
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 1218
Jake Ootes Yellowknife Centre
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. My question is for Mr. Ng, the Minister of Health. I have been informed that six to eight doctors are looking at leaving Yellowknife shortly. I am wondering if the Minister is aware of this? Can he can tell us what some of the reasons for this may be? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Question 500-13(4): Departure Of Yellowknife Doctors
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 1218
The Deputy Speaker John Ningark
Thank you. The Minister for Health and Social Services, Mr. Ng.
Return To Question 500-13(4): Departure Of Yellowknife Doctors
Question 500-13(4): Departure Of Yellowknife Doctors
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 1218
Kelvin Ng Kitikmeot
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, yes, I am aware of the issue. Some of the reasons are that, naturally, some of them had planned on leaving the territories to resume practices in other jurisdictions. A secondary reason is there have been some changes proposed in some of the other jurisdictions in Canada in respect to changing some of the health billing number systems that they have to restrict non-residing physicians from accessing billing numbers.
Some of the physicians that operate in the Northwest Territories are concerned that they may not have an opportunity to receive or to keep their billing numbers that they have in their home jurisdictions. As a result of that, they are contemplating moving back to their home provinces, Mr. Speaker. Thank you.
Return To Question 500-13(4): Departure Of Yellowknife Doctors
Question 500-13(4): Departure Of Yellowknife Doctors
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 1218
The Deputy Speaker John Ningark
Thank you. Supplementary, Mr. Ootes.
Supplementary To Question 500-13(4): Departure Of Yellowknife Doctors
Question 500-13(4): Departure Of Yellowknife Doctors
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 1218
Jake Ootes Yellowknife Centre
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. The departure of six to eight doctors is creating a bit of anxiety amongst the other doctors because of short staffing, as can be appreciated. I am wondering, is the Minister in discussions with the medical association to tackle the problems of recruiting and what all of the reasons for their departure may be?
Supplementary To Question 500-13(4): Departure Of Yellowknife Doctors
Question 500-13(4): Departure Of Yellowknife Doctors
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 1218
The Deputy Speaker John Ningark
Thank you. Mr. Ng.
Further Return To Question 500-13(4): Departure Of Yellowknife Doctors
Question 500-13(4): Departure Of Yellowknife Doctors
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 1218
Kelvin Ng Kitikmeot
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I am not directly involved in those discussions. I know some of our staff are. The Stanton Regional Health Board have
actually expressed an interest to devote, through the NWT Health Care Association, devote some time to try to work out a strategy, which we are fully supportive of.
I can say to the honourable Member, right now, actually, as of the last Monday's health Ministers meeting, the health billing numbers was on the agenda for discussion in trying to have myself speak to some of my colleagues from across Canada to try to set up some kind of measure to exempt doctors operating in rural and remote locations from being impacted, so that we would not have to face the same difficulties as some of the larger jurisdictions in possibly losing some of our physicians. It is still on the agenda, nationally, health Minister wise, and it is one that I will continue to pursue, Mr. Speaker. Thank you.
Further Return To Question 500-13(4): Departure Of Yellowknife Doctors
Question 500-13(4): Departure Of Yellowknife Doctors
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 1220
The Deputy Speaker John Ningark
Thank you. Second supplementary, Mr. Ootes.
Supplementary To Question 500-13(4): Departure Of Yellowknife Doctors
Question 500-13(4): Departure Of Yellowknife Doctors
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 1220
Jake Ootes Yellowknife Centre
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I am wondering if the Minister could tell us if there is prospective replacements for these doctors and will that happen fairly quickly?
Supplementary To Question 500-13(4): Departure Of Yellowknife Doctors
Question 500-13(4): Departure Of Yellowknife Doctors
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 1220
The Deputy Speaker John Ningark
Thank you. Mr. Ng.
Further Return To Question 500-13(4): Departure Of Yellowknife Doctors
Question 500-13(4): Departure Of Yellowknife Doctors
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 1220
Kelvin Ng Kitikmeot
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I am not aware of any prospective replacements for the individuals that are contemplating leaving. I am aware of the situation and hopefully we can work our way through it so there is minimal impact, if any, on any of the service levels, Mr. Speaker. Thank you.
Further Return To Question 500-13(4): Departure Of Yellowknife Doctors
Question 500-13(4): Departure Of Yellowknife Doctors
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 1220
The Deputy Speaker John Ningark
Thank you. Final supplementary, Mr. Ootes.
Supplementary To Question 500-13(4): Departure Of Yellowknife Doctors
Question 500-13(4): Departure Of Yellowknife Doctors
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 1220
Jake Ootes Yellowknife Centre
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I understand the communities of Fort Simpson and Cambridge Bay have previously had doctors, but it is difficult to recruit doctors for those particular communities. I wonder if the Minister has addressed that concern and if he is having any success with that?
Supplementary To Question 500-13(4): Departure Of Yellowknife Doctors
Question 500-13(4): Departure Of Yellowknife Doctors
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 1220
The Deputy Speaker John Ningark
Thank you. I will pause momentarily each and every time there is a question being asked in order to allow the interpretation to complete the interpretation for the benefit of one of our Members. Thank you. Mr. Ng.
Further Return To Question 500-13(4): Departure Of Yellowknife Doctors
Question 500-13(4): Departure Of Yellowknife Doctors
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 1220
Kelvin Ng Kitikmeot
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I am aware of the issue and we have been working with the health authorities in those areas to try to fill those positions. Thank you.
Further Return To Question 500-13(4): Departure Of Yellowknife Doctors
Question 500-13(4): Departure Of Yellowknife Doctors
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 1220
The Deputy Speaker John Ningark
Thank you. Oral questions. The honourable Member for Mackenzie Delta, Mr. Krutko.
Question 501-13(4): Mental Health Workers Position Reductions
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 1220
David Krutko Mackenzie Delta
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. My question is in regards to my opening statement of the mental health workers being let go in a lot of the communities in relation to the reason that they are there is because it is a mental capacity of the community to look at health and also to ensure the well-being of those people in the community to have access to individuals such as the mental health workers when they have problems. My question to the Minister is, has there been consultation with the communities to ask if it was okay for the department to cut those positions or did they unilaterally just go ahead and cut those positions?
Question 501-13(4): Mental Health Workers Position Reductions
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 1220
The Deputy Speaker John Ningark
Thank you. The Minister for Health and Social Services, Mr. Ng.
Return To Question 501-13(4): Mental Health Workers Position Reductions
Question 501-13(4): Mental Health Workers Position Reductions
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 1220
Kelvin Ng Kitikmeot
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, first of all, the department did not unilaterally cut any positions. Those positions were transferred to Inuvik Regional Health and Social Services Board in amalgamations across the whole territories effective April 1st. The funding for the mental health program was transferred intact to the regional authorities and I am not particularly sure of the particular circumstances surrounding the Inuvik board's decision on how they have dealt with the mental health worker program. I have asked and made enquiries, but to date I have not heard back on those enquiries, Mr. Speaker. Thank you.
Return To Question 501-13(4): Mental Health Workers Position Reductions
Question 501-13(4): Mental Health Workers Position Reductions
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 1220
The Deputy Speaker John Ningark
Thank you. Supplementary, Mr. Krutko.
Supplementary To Question 501-13(4): Mental Health Workers Position Reductions
Question 501-13(4): Mental Health Workers Position Reductions
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 1220
David Krutko Mackenzie Delta
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. My question to the Minister is, it seems like there is a real unclear process that is in place to ensure that it is being evaluated by the communities and also the health board and the Minister's office to ensure that when we do make these transfers or allow the regions or communities to take on these initiatives that they have the resources, especially when you are dealing with the health issue. The reason for these mental health workers to be in the communities in the first place is because there was a demand for having those people in those communities. I think because of a decision of a board without the consultation of the community to ensure what effect it is going to have in those communities, that there has to be a more adequate process in place to evaluate these changes that are affecting the communities to ensure there are not longterm inpatients by removing these critical people at this time
.
In the case of my region, we have lost the Delta House. Basically the funding has been cut to the Tl'oondih and Healing Society and now the mental health workers are going. So what other alternatives do the communities have and what assurances does the Minister have that there will be some sort of an evaluation process in place to ensure that the communities are involved in regards to how these positions being cancelled are affecting the communities? Thank you.
Supplementary To Question 501-13(4): Mental Health Workers Position Reductions
Question 501-13(4): Mental Health Workers Position Reductions
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 1221
The Deputy Speaker John Ningark
Mahsi. Mr. Ng.
Further Return To Question 501-13(4): Mental Health Workers Position Reduction
Question 501-13(4): Mental Health Workers Position Reductions
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 1221
Kelvin Ng Kitikmeot
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I recognize the value of having preventative types of individuals in communities, such as the mental health workers. What I would suggest is that the Inuvik Regional Health Board be approached. I have said that I have made enquiries already to find out the rationale for some of the changes to that program and to try to, once again, work with the communities to find a resolution to the issue, Mr. Speaker. Thank you.
Further Return To Question 501-13(4): Mental Health Workers Position Reduction
Question 501-13(4): Mental Health Workers Position Reductions
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 1221
The Deputy Speaker John Ningark
Thank you. Second supplementary, Mr. Krutko.
Supplementary To Question 501-13(4): Mental Health Workers Position Reductions
Question 501-13(4): Mental Health Workers Position Reductions
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 1221
David Krutko Mackenzie Delta
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. In regards to the communities and also the options the communities have in front of them, you mentioned the option of going to the regional health board but I believe that the communities should have the option to reinstate these individuals or the position in those communities. Can the Minister assure the communities that there is the option open to them to reinstate these positions at this time?
Supplementary To Question 501-13(4): Mental Health Workers Position Reductions
Question 501-13(4): Mental Health Workers Position Reductions
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 1221
The Deputy Speaker John Ningark
Thank you. The honourable Minister, Mr. Ng.
Further Return To Question 501-13(4): Mental Health Workers Position Reductions
Question 501-13(4): Mental Health Workers Position Reductions
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 1221
Kelvin Ng Kitikmeot
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, first we have to find out the rationale, as I indicated, on why there would have been some change in the delivery of this program. If we feel that they are not valid then at that point, we will have to address the situation and try to remedy the problem. So I think there are assurances there for community involvement and I respect that if it is a decision made that is totally unacceptable to the communities then the Inuvik Regional Health and Social Services Board would be compelled to try to justify that decision and try to make any changes, even reinstatement of the program if it was felt that it was required and one of the priorities of the communities, Mr. Speaker. Thank you.
Further Return To Question 501-13(4): Mental Health Workers Position Reductions
Question 501-13(4): Mental Health Workers Position Reductions
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 1221
The Deputy Speaker John Ningark
Thank you. Final supplementary, Mr. Krutko.
Supplementary To Question 501-13(4): Mental Health Workers Position Reductions
Question 501-13(4): Mental Health Workers Position Reductions
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 1221
David Krutko Mackenzie Delta
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. In regards to the evaluation and the process and the time you are going to need to look at this, I would like to ask the Minister how soon can he get back to myself and the communities that have been affected by these cuts to the mental health workers being let go? I would like to ask the Minister, can he get back to me as soon as possible and also inform the communities that have been cut on what his decision is or what his findings are? Thank you.
Supplementary To Question 501-13(4): Mental Health Workers Position Reductions
Question 501-13(4): Mental Health Workers Position Reductions
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 1221
The Deputy Speaker John Ningark
Thank you. Mr. Ng.
Further Return To Question 501-13(4): Mental Health Workers Position Reductions
Question 501-13(4): Mental Health Workers Position Reductions
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 1221
Kelvin Ng Kitikmeot
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I can make the commitment to the honourable Member that once I have the information I will sit down with them and discuss it with them and I can make the commitment that I will speak to the Inuvik Regional Health and Social Services Board and have them arrange for consultations or discussions with the community leaders on these program changes, Mr. Speaker. Thank you.
Further Return To Question 501-13(4): Mental Health Workers Position Reductions
Question 501-13(4): Mental Health Workers Position Reductions
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 1221
The Deputy Speaker John Ningark
(Translation) Thank you. The Member for Baffin Central, Mr. Enuaraq. (Translation ends)
Question 502-13(4): Sale Of Staff Housing
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 1222
Tommy Enuaraq Baffin Central
(Translation) Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Good morning, colleagues. My question will be directed to the Honourable Mr. Todd. In regards to government staff housing sales, what is the status on the sale of government staff housing to date? Thank you. (Translation ends)
Return To Question 502-13(4): Sale Of Staff Housing
Question 502-13(4): Sale Of Staff Housing
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 1222
John Todd Keewatin Central
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Well, I think a general comment will be that we are very pleased with the status of the sale of staff housing. As a matter of fact, it partially enabled us to move forward on that Employment Strategy Initiative that I announced earlier this week. It would also be fair to say that there are still some minor glitches out there in some of the communities and we are working closely with each individual situation in an effort to once and for all get out of what we call staff-owned housing, although I do want to assure my colleagues that the government policy is still to continue with the leasing of housing units. But certainly from an ownership perspective, it has gone very well and I would like to publicly thank our employees and those developers who have purchased the units, aiding us with our deficit elimination strategy. Thank you.
Return To Question 502-13(4): Sale Of Staff Housing
Question 502-13(4): Sale Of Staff Housing
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 1222
The Deputy Speaker John Ningark
(Translation) Thank you. Do you have a supplementary to your question, Mr. Enuaraq? (Translation ends)
Supplementary To Question 502-13(4): Sale Of Staff Housing
Question 502-13(4): Sale Of Staff Housing
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 1222
Tommy Enuaraq Baffin Central
(Translation) Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I would like to thank the Minister for the clarification on the staff housing. In addition, in Clyde River Apitak Development Corporation wanted to buy some staff houses to rent them. Has that been settled yet? Thank you. (Translation ends)
Further Return To Question 502-13(4): Sale Of Staff Housing
Question 502-13(4): Sale Of Staff Housing
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 1222
John Todd Keewatin Central
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I know this issue and certainly everybody knows my position in this House. I am a strong advocate of aboriginal constituency being involved in the private sector and this is an opportunity for that particular development group which is homegrown in Clyde River to own the properties. The actual status of whether they have actually got them now or do not, I do not have that information in my hands but certainly the desire of the government is that given they are locally homegrown that they would purchase the units and we would assist them in doing that. At the same time we need to ensure that we protect our tenants, that the rents are affordable at the end of the day and we are attempting to do that at the same time. Thank you.
Further Return To Question 502-13(4): Sale Of Staff Housing
Question 502-13(4): Sale Of Staff Housing
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 1222
The Deputy Speaker John Ningark
Qujannamiik. Thank you. Member for Thebacha, Mr. Miltenberger. Thank you.
Question 503-13(4): Pay Equity Dispute Resolution
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 1222
Michael Miltenberger Thebacha
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. My question is to the Minister of Finance to follow up on discussions in this House yesterday regarding pay equity and the comment he made about being open to exploring negotiated alternatives outside the legal process to possibly resolving this long outstanding issue. My question to the Minister is, is he prepared to be proactive and initiate that kind of contact that he indicated he is willing to explore in the search for an affordable and quick resolution to this? Thank you.
Question 503-13(4): Pay Equity Dispute Resolution
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 1222
The Deputy Speaker John Ningark
Thank you. Mr. Todd.
Return To Question 503-13(4): Pay Equity Dispute Resolution
Question 503-13(4): Pay Equity Dispute Resolution
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 1222
John Todd Keewatin Central
Well, as they say in the music business, Mr. Speaker, it takes two to tango. Certainly, I think I indicated yesterday that myself as the Finance Minister and my department feel that this could be, as my colleague indicated, a long drawn out, costly, protracted exercise if it gets too far along and, at the end of the day, where are we? However, at the same time I also said that given my understanding the previous governments were close to an arrangement and for whatever reason, it did not happen. At the time, it is my understanding that it was fiscally affordable. But if there is an expectation out there that we simply cannot afford it then you end up doing the kinds of things that we are doing. I would suggest to my colleague, I publicly said yesterday, that we are prepared to move forward. Really it is up to the other parties to come to the table if they are interested but they have to come to the table with a clear understanding of affordability.
You said earlier that if it ends up where there is a huge fiscal cost attached to this for a variety of reasons, let me assure you, it will mean less jobs, not more jobs, it will mean less services, not more services because our fiscal condition of this government, even though we have contained the spending, is still strained to the limit and there is no big pot of gold at the end of the rainbow as we move towards 1999. We think we are being fiscally responsible, the other parties have to be the same. So the short of it is, yes but we have to wait for the other parties to see if they are interested.
Return To Question 503-13(4): Pay Equity Dispute Resolution
Question 503-13(4): Pay Equity Dispute Resolution
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 1222
The Deputy Speaker John Ningark
Thank you. Supplementary, Mr. Miltenberger.
Supplementary To Question 503-13(4): Pay Equity Dispute Resolution
Question 503-13(4): Pay Equity Dispute Resolution
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 1222
Michael Miltenberger Thebacha
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I agree that the Minister has a made a public signal in this House. My concern is that it not just die on the floor here. Would the Minister consider in fact reiterating that commitment he has made here on paper just so it is very clear that you are serious and it is just not a public statement in this House, and leave the door open for them. Then you can stand up and say yes, I in fact have not only made a verbal offer but I followed it up by clarifying my comments directly in writing to the Executive.
Supplementary To Question 503-13(4): Pay Equity Dispute Resolution
Question 503-13(4): Pay Equity Dispute Resolution
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 1222
The Deputy Speaker John Ningark
Thank you. Mr. Todd.
Further Return To Question 503-13(4): Pay Equity Dispute Resolution
Question 503-13(4): Pay Equity Dispute Resolution
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 1222
John Todd Keewatin Central
Well they have got their scribe in the House who is, I am sure, making copious notes as it relates to my response to your question and I am on video. I mean the bottom line is we are prepared to make the overture but I want to stress again, as it relates to affordability. I mean if they do not come to the table with affordability, what do you want me to do, lay off another 1,000 people? I do not think that is an acceptable issue right out there. Do you want me to reduce more services? I do not think that is acceptable out there. So what I am saying is, we are ready to come to the table. If the other parties are with an open mind about affordability, I am sure we can come to a reasonable conclusion. And it if comes with an open mind, with affordability in mind, we can come to a quick resolution. Thank you.
Further Return To Question 503-13(4): Pay Equity Dispute Resolution
Question 503-13(4): Pay Equity Dispute Resolution
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 1222
The Deputy Speaker John Ningark
Thank you. Second supplementary, Mr. Miltenberger.
Supplementary To Question 503-13(4): Pay Equity Dispute Resolution
Question 503-13(4): Pay Equity Dispute Resolution
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 1222
Michael Miltenberger Thebacha
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I know the Minister of Finance is indeed a humble and modest individual but I do not think he should downplay the effect his signature has on a letter that would formalize in writing that yes, we are serious here, we are trying to open the door and here i
t is. So I would ask the Minister to consider that and, of course, I would ask that if that kind of creative positive strategy is available for pay equity that it also be considered for the possible resolution of the outstanding issue of settlement allowances. Thank you.
Supplementary To Question 503-13(4): Pay Equity Dispute Resolution
Question 503-13(4): Pay Equity Dispute Resolution
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 1224
The Deputy Speaker John Ningark
Thank you. Mr. Todd.
Further Return To Question 503-13(4): Pay Equity Dispute Resolution
Question 503-13(4): Pay Equity Dispute Resolution
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 1224
John Todd Keewatin Central
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I want to be very clear, specifically my comments relate to pay equity, they do not relate to the other issue. I would suggest to you that I can draft a letter saying to the UNW President, Ms. Jackie Simpson, "are you prepared to come to the table?" I understand it will be entering into new negotiations fairly soon, probably late August or the fall, and I would hope that would be one part of the negotiations. Now I cannot preempt any discussions on that but I will certainly discuss the matter with my deputy, Mr. Voytilla and I am prepared to take some initiative here but it has to be conditional. Again, I emphasize to everybody, we spent 18 months of pure agony and not only in this House but the public at large. If it is affordable and it is equitable, I am prepared to come to the table. If it is unrealistic and it is pie in the sky, I am simply not. Thank you.
Further Return To Question 503-13(4): Pay Equity Dispute Resolution
Question 503-13(4): Pay Equity Dispute Resolution
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 1224
The Deputy Speaker John Ningark
Thank you. Second supplementary, Mr. Miltenberger.
Supplementary To Question 503-13(4): Pay Equity Dispute Resolution
Question 503-13(4): Pay Equity Dispute Resolution
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 1224
Michael Miltenberger Thebacha
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I think this House, at least I am very aware of the factors that affect this process and the financial realities that face us and you have made it clear and we have all lived through this last two years together and we have stick handled through these very tough financial times. I would encourage the Minister to in fact be proactive. I do not think this would preempt the coming negotiations. I recognize my question was initially directed strictly at pay equity but the idea of affordable solutions to problems that have been nagging our government for years I think are a concept we all subscribe to and I am just asking the Minister if he would be willing, if the opportunity presented itself, to consider that other option as well. Thank you.
Supplementary To Question 503-13(4): Pay Equity Dispute Resolution
Question 503-13(4): Pay Equity Dispute Resolution
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 1224
The Deputy Speaker John Ningark
Thank you. That was a final supplementary. Mr. Todd.
Further Return To Question 503-13(4): Pay Equity Dispute Resolution
Question 503-13(4): Pay Equity Dispute Resolution
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 1224
John Todd Keewatin Central
I believe the other issue may in fact, I did get some clarity the other day there because I did not answer it as well as I should have, is in arbitration and, to some extent, in the justice system. I am not sure that I can interfere in that process, if you want. That is why I said I am dealing with the pay equity issue. The pay equity issue, as I have said to you, I want to be proactive on this stuff. I want to be able to come to some conclusion and when I leave this office, I want to say I have accomplished something but it has to be done in light of affordability. You know we still have not balanced the budget and I do not want to get back to that because you are fed up hearing about it but we are still trying to do that. We have some serious problems out there that we are still trying to resolve. We are moving towards the division of the territories which is going to be a gruelling task in the next 18 to 20 months. I would like to resolve these issues. I do not want to leave these issues to be inherited by future governments. I am prepared to publicly make the commitment today if the parties want to come together and they come to the table with the understanding of affordability. Then we will talk. If they do not and it is unrealistic, I have other things to do. Thank you.
Further Return To Question 503-13(4): Pay Equity Dispute Resolution
Question 503-13(4): Pay Equity Dispute Resolution
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 1224
The Deputy Speaker John Ningark
Thank you. Oral questions. The honourable Member for Kivallivik, Mr. O'Brien. Thank you.
Question 504-13(4): Dental Contract In Keewatin
Item 6: Oral Questions
May 29th, 1997
Page 1224
Kevin O'Brien Kivallivik
Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, my question today is to the Minister of Health and Social Services. Mr. Speaker, yesterday, I asked the Minister if he would consider, be supportive block funding for the Hamlets of Arviat and Baker Lake to maintain the existing dental therapy program. The Minister indicated very clearly that he would not be supportive. Mr. Speaker, can the Minister tell me whether or not the contract has been signed with Kiguti regarding this new arrangement or proposal to run the dental program.
Question 504-13(4): Dental Contract In Keewatin
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 1224
The Deputy Speaker John Ningark
Thank you. Minister for Health and Social Services, Mr. Ng.
Return To Question 504-13(4): Dental Contract In Keewatin
Question 504-13(4): Dental Contract In Keewatin
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 1224
Kelvin Ng Kitikmeot
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I am not certain if the contract has been signed off. I know that the intent was to have it signed. I just do not have the specifics of the status of that contract, Mr. Speaker. Thank you.
Return To Question 504-13(4): Dental Contract In Keewatin
Question 504-13(4): Dental Contract In Keewatin
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 1224
The Deputy Speaker John Ningark
Thank you. Supplementary question. Mr. O'Brien.
Supplementary To Question 504-13(4): Dental Contract In Keewatin
Question 504-13(4): Dental Contract In Keewatin
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 1224
Kevin O'Brien Kivallivik
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, in view of the fact that the Minister indicated that he would not be supportive of block funding for this particular program, the communities are now asking if the Minister will be supportive of providing block funding for all health programs that are delivered in the communities of Arviat and Baker Lake. Thank you.
Supplementary To Question 504-13(4): Dental Contract In Keewatin
Question 504-13(4): Dental Contract In Keewatin
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 1224
The Deputy Speaker John Ningark
Thank you. Mr. Ng.
Further Return To Question 504-13(4): Dental Contract In Keewatin
Question 504-13(4): Dental Contract In Keewatin
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 1224
Kelvin Ng Kitikmeot
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, once again as I indicated yesterday, there is a broad spectrum of health and social services funding that is managed by the
regional health authorities. To break that up into specific communities, having some involvement and some not, would not be conducive to efficiency or effectiveness, for that matter, for delivery of health services on a local, municipal level. There has to be some coordination because of the fact that you have a transportation of patients going to other jurisdictions. You have specialists that you bring into the region to provide services. You have to coordinate that as well because you could not do it on a community by community basis, Mr. Speaker. So, no, I am not supportive of block funding individual communities for health and social services programs at this time. Thank you.
Further Return To Question 504-13(4): Dental Contract In Keewatin
Question 504-13(4): Dental Contract In Keewatin
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 1225
The Deputy Speaker John Ningark
Thank you. Oral questions. The honourable Member for Hay River, Madam Groenewegen.
Question 505-13(4): Comprehensive Recycling Plan
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 1225
Jane Groenewegen Hay River
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. My question today is for the Minister responsible for the environment. Recycling is one area of protecting our environment that I and I am sure many other Members of this Legislature addressed during our election campaigns, but it is not something that I have heard discussed too much since then. It has been brought up again by my constituents and I have some questions for the Minister on that today. I think that everyone agrees that northerners need to be more involved in the environment. Recycling is one way that we can do that. We need to find alternatives to costly landfill sites because of the amount of plastic and glass bottles, aluminum beer and pop cans which find their way into our northern communities and never seem to find their way out. Partially because I believe, there is no deposit system in place. There is not a monetary incentive for people to be environmental conscience when it comes to these recyclable materials in the north. I am just wondering when was the last time that this government considered a comprehensive plan or a campaign for recycling. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Question 505-13(4): Comprehensive Recycling Plan
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 1225
The Deputy Speaker John Ningark
Thank you. The honourable Minister, Mr. Kakfwi.
Return To Question 505-13(4): Comprehensive Recycling Plan
Question 505-13(4): Comprehensive Recycling Plan
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 1225
Stephen Kakfwi Sahtu
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I am not aware of the last time a comprehensive review was done to see how the government should address the issue of recycling. Thank you.
Return To Question 505-13(4): Comprehensive Recycling Plan
Question 505-13(4): Comprehensive Recycling Plan
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 1225
The Deputy Speaker John Ningark
Thank you. Supplementary. Madam Groenewegen.
Supplementary To Question 505-13(4): Comprehensive Recycling Plan
Question 505-13(4): Comprehensive Recycling Plan
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 1225
Jane Groenewegen Hay River
Another area of recycling which I am curious about is in respect to the vast amounts of paper that various government departments consume and what happens with that paper when it is no longer needed. Does the GNWT have a government wide policy regarding the recycling of paper that is generated by government offices in the communities where the services for that pickup and recycling are available? Is there a policy governing departments? Thank you.
Supplementary To Question 505-13(4): Comprehensive Recycling Plan
Question 505-13(4): Comprehensive Recycling Plan
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 1225
The Deputy Speaker John Ningark
Thank you, Mr. Kakfwi.
Further Return To Question 505-13(4): Comprehensive Recycling Plan
Question 505-13(4): Comprehensive Recycling Plan
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 1225
Stephen Kakfwi Sahtu
Mr. Speaker, I am not aware if we do have a policy on recycling, the gathering and collecting of paper. Thank you.
Further Return To Question 505-13(4): Comprehensive Recycling Plan
Question 505-13(4): Comprehensive Recycling Plan
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 1225
The Deputy Speaker John Ningark
Thank you. Second supplementary. Madam Groenewegen.
Supplementary To Question 505-13(4): Comprehensive Recycling Plan
Question 505-13(4): Comprehensive Recycling Plan
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 1225
Jane Groenewegen Hay River
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I do not think that anyone would argue that we here in the north are somewhat behind the times when it comes to individuals and consumers participating in protecting our environment. So, I would like to get some kind of an indication from the Minister if he sees any obvious deterrents to us as a government initiating something which would encourage that kind of participation.
Supplementary To Question 505-13(4): Comprehensive Recycling Plan
Question 505-13(4): Comprehensive Recycling Plan
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 1225
The Deputy Speaker John Ningark
Thank you. The honourable Minister responsible for the environment, Mr. Kakfwi.
Further Return To Question 505-13(4): Comprehensive Recycling Plan
Question 505-13(4): Comprehensive Recycling Plan
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 1225
Stephen Kakfwi Sahtu
Mr. Speaker, the Department of Resource, Wildlife and Economic Development has had a very tough year in terms of the workload that the department had to deal with. As Members will recall, we started off last year, myself as a Minister for three departments. We also had a mandate to amalgamate the three departments. We were running, so to speak, three old machines while creating and instituting the running of a new one, all at the same time. We went through this deficit reduction exercise as a major player in that. The work that we have had has been very demanding on the part of our department.
We have not really had a great deal of time to initiate new ideas and new areas of work. At least I have tried to refrain from it, just trying to keep the services that we have had operational trying to simplify it, trying to get the department on stream. We have now basically done that and are now prepared to consider suggestions such as the one the Member is just making. Thank you.
Further Return To Question 505-13(4): Comprehensive Recycling Plan
Question 505-13(4): Comprehensive Recycling Plan
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 1225
The Deputy Speaker John Ningark
Thank you. Final supplementary. Madam Groenewegen.
Supplementary To Question 505-13(4): Comprehensive Recycling Plan
Question 505-13(4): Comprehensive Recycling Plan
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 1226
Jane Groenewegen Hay River
Thank you, for that response from the Minister and I do know first hand that it has been a very busy time for the government. I am attempting to go back and revisit commitments that I made personally at the beginning of my ten-year here in the Legislature. I know that I can speak from my community, at least, that there are people there who are very environmentally conscience that would be more than happy to pledge their volunteer time to work with the Minister's department to come up with ideas, if not territorial wide, even community based initiatives. So, I appreciate that and I will report back to those in the community that there is going to be room on the agenda for RWED to look at these initiatives. I do not know what kind of a timeframe the Minister would be looking at. I am not aware of who within his department or what branch within his department would be the appropriate one if these individuals wanted to contact them. Is there a division of RWED that this type of initiative would suitably fit? Thank you.
Supplementary To Question 505-13(4): Comprehensive Recycling Plan
Question 505-13(4): Comprehensive Recycling Plan
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 1226
The Deputy Speaker John Ningark
Thank you. Mr. Kakfwi.
Further Return To Question 505-13(4): Comprehensive Recycling Plan
Question 505-13(4): Comprehensive Recycling Plan
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 1226
Stephen Kakfwi Sahtu
Mr. Speaker, I am personally interested in hearing first hand suggestions that members of the public and organizations may have in this area. So, I would suggest to the Member that her constituents could contact me. I would be interested in hearing their suggestions and proposals. Thank you.
Further Return To Question 505-13(4): Comprehensive Recycling Plan
Question 505-13(4): Comprehensive Recycling Plan
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 1226
The Deputy Speaker John Ningark
Thank you. Oral questions. The honourable Member for Yellowknife North, Mr. Erasmus.
Question 506-13(4): Division Of Potential Pay Equity Liability
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 1226
Roy Erasmus Yellowknife North
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. My question is for the Minister of Finance. It is also in relation to the pay equity issue. Mr. Speaker, I would not like to see the west get stuck with the total bill in this issue if this matter is not resolved before division. For that matter, I would like to know if we have some type of plan in place to ensure that if this pay equity issue is not resolved before division, that there is a way to split the costs equitably between the two new territories. Thank you.
Question 506-13(4): Division Of Potential Pay Equity Liability
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 1226
The Deputy Speaker John Ningark
Thank you. Mr. Todd.
Return To Question 506-13(4): Division Of Potential Pay Equity Liability
Question 506-13(4): Division Of Potential Pay Equity Liability
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 1226
John Todd Keewatin Central
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I am still the Minister of Finance for the territories and I think that I have to approach it in that light. I appreciate what my colleague is saying about his concern in terms of the future. We do not at this time recognize in terms on the fiscal side on the balance sheets any expenditures with respect to pay equity, to be very frank with you. I think that there is a huge disparity between our position and the UNW's as it relates to the cost and some of the conditions attached to it. I think that it is too early right now in the process to determine how that is all going to unfold. I know this much. If it is identified in the coming months as a liability and it is not right now because we do not view it that way, then we will have to work out some arrangement with respects to the asset/liability side of how we are doing things. That has to be fair and equitable, but at the end of the day, I would hope as Mr. Miltenberger asked me earlier today that we would be able to come to an arrangement that was affordable, was equitable and at the end of the day was fair to our employees because we want to keep these employees rather than have to lay them off in the future if we have any major fiscal catastrophes. Thank you.
Return To Question 506-13(4): Division Of Potential Pay Equity Liability
Question 506-13(4): Division Of Potential Pay Equity Liability
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 1226
The Deputy Speaker John Ningark
Thank you. Supplementary, Mr. Erasmus.
Supplementary To Question 506-13(4): Division Of Potential Pay Equity Liability
Question 506-13(4): Division Of Potential Pay Equity Liability
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 1226
Roy Erasmus Yellowknife North
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. That is exactly why I am concerned because it is not now recognized as a liability. If it is not recognized as a liability, then we need some assurances that the west is not going to be stuck with the total bill in the future. Will the Finance Minister commit to ensuring that there is some method to ensure that if it does become a liability, that the east will pay its fair share, as well as the west? Thank you.
Supplementary To Question 506-13(4): Division Of Potential Pay Equity Liability
Question 506-13(4): Division Of Potential Pay Equity Liability
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 1226
The Deputy Speaker John Ningark
Thank you. Mr. Todd.
Further Return To Question 506-13(4): Division Of Potential Pay Equity Liability
Question 506-13(4): Division Of Potential Pay Equity Liability
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 1226
John Todd Keewatin Central
Some Members can treat this issue in jest. I treat it very seriously. They are some of the same Members that want their cake and eat it too. I want to assure my colleague, the intent of this government is to try and resolve. As I said in the earlier questioning, there has to be some affordability. When people come to the table, they have to understand that. If there is no agreement to be reached, which is a distinct possibility if we get into litigation, we can be at this for the next three or four years at a cost, I am told, at least to us, of around a million dollars a year. Heaven knows what it is going to be to the others. It would seem to me, common sense should prevail. There is no pot of gold at the end of the rainbow with this government, or future governments. If common sense prevails and all parties come to the table and deal with this thing in an equitable, affordable manner, I am convinced we can make a deal, an arrangement, or come to some conclusion on the issue. If we do not, I will have to address that issue carefully, present it to the Division Committee and the Cabinet, and it will have to be part and parcel of our overall division plan, as it relates to assets and liabilities. Thank you.
Further Return To Question 506-13(4): Division Of Potential Pay Equity Liability
Question 506-13(4): Division Of Potential Pay Equity Liability
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 1226
The Deputy Speaker John Ningark
Thank you. I keep reminding Members that every Member is entitled to receive the same information of the question and the answer. We happen to have one unilingual Member here that is receiving your translation to the interpretation. I would again like to remind each and every one of you to pause in between questions and answers for the
benefit of the Member from Amittuq. Thank you. Oral questions, Mr. Henry.
Question 507-13(4): Update On Protected Area Strategy
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 1227
Seamus Henry Yellowknife South
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, my question today is to the Minister responsible for Resources, Wildlife and Economic Development, Mr. Kakfwi. A couple of months the Minister had informed this House of a conference which took place in Inuvik regarding the Protected Area Strategy. I was wondering if the Minister would give this House an update on the workings of that particular group and where they are at today? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Question 507-13(4): Update On Protected Area Strategy
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 1227
The Deputy Speaker John Ningark
Mr. Kakfwi.
Return To Question 507-13(4): Update On Protected Area Strategy
Question 507-13(4): Update On Protected Area Strategy
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 1227
Stephen Kakfwi Sahtu
Mr. Speaker, I would like to take the question as notice. It is an issue that deserves a rather comprehensive response because of the sensitivities in dealing with land, environment, and the different stakeholders that are involved. As with issues of this nature, a well worded, clear, articulate response would be required and I humbly admit my failings on occasion in that department. I will prepare an appropriate response next week for the Member. Thank you.
Return To Question 507-13(4): Update On Protected Area Strategy
Question 507-13(4): Update On Protected Area Strategy
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 1227
The Deputy Speaker John Ningark
Thank you. Mr. Kakfwi, are you taking the question as notice?
Return To Question 507-13(4): Update On Protected Area Strategy
Question 507-13(4): Update On Protected Area Strategy
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 1227
Return To Question 507-13(4): Update On Protected Area Strategy
Question 507-13(4): Update On Protected Area Strategy
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 1227
The Deputy Speaker John Ningark
Thank you, Mr. Kakfwi. The Member for High Arctic, Mr. Barnabas.
Question 508-13(4): Community Freezer Problems
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 1227
Levi Barnabas High Arctic
(Translation) Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I have a question to the Minister of Public Works and Services. I have a short story before I ask the question. Last year, in Arctic Bay, we had a problem with a freezer and it seems that the problem has risen again. The community freezer is used for muktuk and other country food and I would like to know what is happening to repair the freezer? (Translation ends)
Return To Question 508-13(4): Community Freezer Problems
Question 508-13(4): Community Freezer Problems
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 1227
Goo Arlooktoo Baffin South
(Translation) Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I am not sure if this is one of my responsibilities as a Minister of DPW. The freezer in Arctic Bay needs to be maintained and I will be working with the other Ministers to try to correct this matter because the freezer needs to be repaired. Thank you, Mr. Speaker. (Translation ends)
Return To Question 508-13(4): Community Freezer Problems
Question 508-13(4): Community Freezer Problems
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 1227
The Deputy Speaker John Ningark
(Translation) Thank you. (Translation ends) Oral questions, Mr. Picco.
Question 509-13(4): Pay Equity Dispute
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 1227
Edward Picco Iqaluit
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I have been quite amused over the last couple of days concerning the questions regarding pay equity because two months ago I had asked the Minister of Finance about sitting down with our partners, the UNW, and trying to reach a negotiated settlement on the outstanding issue. At that time there was no indication from the Minister that he was willing to do that. I guess something has happened over the past two months to change the Minister's mind.
My question to the Minster of Finance is, what has happened now that the Minister is going to sit down or is making this magnanimous offer to sit down with the UNW and try to negotiate a settlement? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Question 509-13(4): Pay Equity Dispute
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 1227
The Deputy Speaker John Ningark
Thank you. The chairman for FMB, Mr. Todd.
Return To Question 509-13(4): Pay Equity Dispute
Question 509-13(4): Pay Equity Dispute
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 1227
John Todd Keewatin Central
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Nothing. Thank you.
Return To Question 509-13(4): Pay Equity Dispute
Question 509-13(4): Pay Equity Dispute
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 1227
The Deputy Speaker John Ningark
Thank you. Supplementary, Mr. Picco.
Supplementary To Question 509-13(4): Pay Equity Dispute
Question 509-13(4): Pay Equity Dispute
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 1227
Edward Picco Iqaluit
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, the Minister has said nothing has happened. Why, two months ago, was he not willing to sit down the UNW, when I asked him in this House as recorded in the Hansard when I said it in my Member's statement? Does it look like now, with the jurisdictional issue with the Supreme Court of Canada is going against this government and our liability will get to the point - it does not matter if we do not have the money, in my mind. The reality is, if you are wrong and we have to pay, we have to pay. We have to come up with it. That is why the Auditor General for Canada and the auditor general's report has asked for a reference to be made to the liability issue. My question to the Minster, is that the format from this government? Is that, indeed, it may go against us? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Supplementary To Question 509-13(4): Pay Equity Dispute
Question 509-13(4): Pay Equity Dispute
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 1227
The Deputy Speaker John Ningark
Thank you. Mr. Todd.
Further Return To Question 509-13(4): Pay Equity Dispute
Question 509-13(4): Pay Equity Dispute
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 1227
John Todd Keewatin Central
No, the honourable Member is incorrect. Thank you.
Further Return To Question 509-13(4): Pay Equity Dispute
Question 509-13(4): Pay Equity Dispute
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 1227
The Deputy Speaker John Ningark
Thank you. Second supplementary, Mr. Picco.
Supplementary To Question 509-13(4): Pay Equity Dispute
Question 509-13(4): Pay Equity Dispute
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 1227
Edward Picco Iqaluit
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I do not have the benefit of the Minister writing questions for me like some other Members. I am really having a chance to ask my questions. My supplementary question is...
Supplementary To Question 509-13(4): Pay Equity Dispute
Question 509-13(4): Pay Equity Dispute
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 1228
The Deputy Speaker John Ningark
Mr. Picco, there is a point of order from Mr. Todd. Point of order.
Point Of Order
Supplementary To Question 509-13(4): Pay Equity Dispute
Question 509-13(4): Pay Equity Dispute
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 1228
John Todd Keewatin Central
Mr. Speaker, I believe that my honourable colleague is implying that perhaps my other colleague from Fort Smith and myself are in collusion in relation to questions and answers in this House. I find that offensive and I ask him to retract it.
Supplementary To Question 509-13(4): Pay Equity Dispute
Question 509-13(4): Pay Equity Dispute
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 1228
The Deputy Speaker John Ningark
Thank you. To the point of order, Mr. Picco.
Supplementary To Question 509-13(4): Pay Equity Dispute
Question 509-13(4): Pay Equity Dispute
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 1228
Edward Picco Iqaluit
No, Mr. Speaker. I did not say that. What I said was, I said that I do not have the opportunity or the benefit of getting questions written by Ministers or any Minister. I did not say any Member in particular. It was just an observation that I made. All Members, including me. Thank you.
Supplementary To Question 509-13(4): Pay Equity Dispute
Question 509-13(4): Pay Equity Dispute
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 1228
The Deputy Speaker John Ningark
Thank you. Obviously, there is no point of order. Mr. Todd.
Supplementary To Question 509-13(4): Pay Equity Dispute
Question 509-13(4): Pay Equity Dispute
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 1228
John Todd Keewatin Central
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. No, I made my point. Thank you.
Supplementary To Question 509-13(4): Pay Equity Dispute
Question 509-13(4): Pay Equity Dispute
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 1228
The Deputy Speaker John Ningark
Thank you. Mr. Picco, you have not finished your supplementary, so proceed please. Thank you.
Supplementary To Question 509-13(4): Pay Equity Dispute
Question 509-13(4): Pay Equity Dispute
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 1228
Edward Picco Iqaluit
That is a good point. Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, my supplementary question to the Minister was, in what stage, now, is the pay equity dispute with the UNW? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Supplementary To Question 509-13(4): Pay Equity Dispute
Question 509-13(4): Pay Equity Dispute
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 1228
The Deputy Speaker John Ningark
Thank you. Mr. Todd.
Further Return To Question 509-13(4): Pay Equity Dispute
Question 509-13(4): Pay Equity Dispute
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 1228
John Todd Keewatin Central
Since my honourable colleague pays so much attention to Hansard, if he reads yesterday's Hansard, he will understand what our position is. Thank you.
Further Return To Question 509-13(4): Pay Equity Dispute
Question 509-13(4): Pay Equity Dispute
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 1228
The Deputy Speaker John Ningark
Thank you. Can I have order. I will give you a final supplementary, if you wish, Mr. Picco.
Supplementary To Question 509-13(4): Pay Equity Dispute
Question 509-13(4): Pay Equity Dispute
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 1228
Edward Picco Iqaluit
Mr. Speaker, the Minister says many things and the Hansard is quite long, full of his verbiage. I do not have the opportunity to read everything that Mr. Todd says. I would not want to. My question again is, in what stage is the pay equity court case? Have we appealed the Supreme Court? Has Mr. Todd hired Eddy Greenspan to represent us? What has happened? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Supplementary To Question 509-13(4): Pay Equity Dispute
Question 509-13(4): Pay Equity Dispute
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 1228
The Deputy Speaker John Ningark
Thank you. Mr. Todd.
Further Return To Question 509-13(4): Pay Equity Dispute
Question 509-13(4): Pay Equity Dispute
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 1228
John Todd Keewatin Central
I have not had this much fun in a while. Mr. Speaker, I do want to advise my honourable colleague, if he does take the time to read yesterday's Hansard, it is clear, succinct, as to what the government's position is, as it relates to pay equity. That is the only point I am trying to make. Thank you.
Further Return To Question 509-13(4): Pay Equity Dispute
Question 509-13(4): Pay Equity Dispute
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 1228
The Deputy Speaker John Ningark
Thank you. I would like to remind all Members that when asking questions or responding to questions, try and refrain from a provocative nature so as not to get the Members arguing across the table. I think we should respect each other in this House. Thank you. Oral questions. Mr. Krutko.
Question 510-13(4): Land Development Policy
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 1228
David Krutko Mackenzie Delta
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. My question is to Minister Manitok Thompson regarding to the Land Reform Policy that has been adapted by this House. Also, the fairness of the policy, especially for those communities that may not have an economic boom in their community and be able to generate revenues and also do not have the resources to be able to generate revenues to pay down loans like has been discussed in a supplementary of $1.5 million for Rankin Inlet.
What opportunities do the communities have or what policy is in place to ensure that those communities will have the same opportunity? There has to be a method so that they can find ways of generating revenues where they may not have to date. Thank you.
Question 510-13(4): Land Development Policy
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 1228
The Deputy Speaker John Ningark
Thank you. Madame Thompson.
Return To Question 510-13(4): Land Development Policy
Question 510-13(4): Land Development Policy
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 1228
Manitok Thompson Aivilik
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Cities and towns have been able to borrow for land development for many years, but before a community can borrow land, it must own the land and in Nunavut the land claim gave ownership of land to the municipalities. The smaller communities in the west do not own the land, although some in the Inuvik region are interested in land ownership. In the west, where communities do not own the land, communities will not be borrowing money for land development.
Instead, the department has a capital budget for land development projects in the west. The land policy was approved by Cabinet in April and it went through this House and I also tabled a document, Finding the Right Balance, which lists all the information in that document in regards to the land development policies. I would suggest to the Member that he read that policy because it has given consideration to all the communities. We do work with the communities on this policy. All the communities should know about it. In the case of Rankin Inlet, the Hamlet will be repaying this loan. It is under Article 14 of land claims agreement and it is just a normal thing that has happened. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Return To Question 510-13(4): Land Development Policy
Question 510-13(4): Land Development Policy
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 1228
The Deputy Speaker John Ningark
Thank you. Mr. Krutko
.
Supplementary To Question 510-13(4): Land Development Policy
Question 510-13(4): Land Development Policy
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 1229
David Krutko Mackenzie Delta
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Will every community have the opportunity to borrow $1.5 million as the precedent that has been set by Rankin Inlet?
Supplementary To Question 510-13(4): Land Development Policy
Question 510-13(4): Land Development Policy
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 1229
The Deputy Speaker John Ningark
Thank you. That was supplementary. Madame Thompson.
Further Return To Question 510-13(4): Land Development Policy
Question 510-13(4): Land Development Policy
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 1229
Manitok Thompson Aivilik
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. The communities are different in size and all the communities will be able to borrow money to develop land but, as I said, because in Nunavut the land claims gave ownership to the municipalities, they are borrowing land for development. In the west, the department has capital budget for land development for the communities.
For those who those who cannot afford to pay these costs, the help can go to individuals mainly through the Home Ownership Programs of the NWT Housing Corporation. The Housing Corporation's New Home Ownership Programs provides assistance based on the cost of a home and a lot. Therefore, people qualifying for a Housing Corporation program will be assisted in leasing or purchasing a lot. All the communities have been informed of this policy. It depends on the community. Some communities have developed land that are not being used yet. So, we have to look at each individual communities. Everybody has a chance to do this. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Further Return To Question 510-13(4): Land Development Policy
Question 510-13(4): Land Development Policy
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 1229
The Deputy Speaker John Ningark
Thank you. Second supplementary. Mr. Krutko.
Supplementary To Question 510-13(4): Land Development Policy
Question 510-13(4): Land Development Policy
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 1229
David Krutko Mackenzie Delta
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. In regards to Article 14 of the Nunavut Act, there is also, in land claim agreements which are presently settled in the western territory, lands within communities called municipal lands which were part of that process. Why has that process not been taken in mind when you use the excuse of Article 14 of the Nunavut Agreement is in place that is why they are able to borrow money? Yet there are also lands in the west which are settled through claims agreements called municipal lands through western land claim agreements. Why have both agreements not been given the same weight? Thank you.
Supplementary To Question 510-13(4): Land Development Policy
Question 510-13(4): Land Development Policy
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 1229
The Deputy Speaker John Ningark
Thank you. Madame Thompson.
Further Return To Question 510-13(4): Land Development Policy
Question 510-13(4): Land Development Policy
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 1229
Manitok Thompson Aivilik
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. We have been fair to all the communities in the territories. As I said, where the land has been claimed, the municipality now has the authority over the land. I will take that as notice and give the Member detailed information on the lands in the west, but we have been very fair with the communities in both east and the west. According to the agreement in Nunavut, Article 14, the municipalities now own the land and they are able to borrow money to develop their lots and so it is in the west, but a lot of the land claims have not been processed yet in some of these communities. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Further Return To Question 510-13(4): Land Development Policy
Question 510-13(4): Land Development Policy
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 1229
The Deputy Speaker John Ningark
Thank you, Madame Thompson. Are you taking the question as notice? Thank you. Question period has elapsed. Mr. Erasmus.
Further Return To Question 510-13(4): Land Development Policy
Question 510-13(4): Land Development Policy
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 1229
Roy Erasmus Yellowknife North
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I seek permission to go back to Item 5, recognition of visitors in the gallery.
Revert To Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery
Revert To Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery
Page 1229
The Deputy Speaker John Ningark
Thank you, the honourable Member is seeking unanimous consent to go back to Item 5, recognition of visitors in the gallery. Are there any nays? No nays. Mr. Erasmus.
Revert To Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery
Revert To Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery
Page 1229
Roy Erasmus Yellowknife North
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I would like to recognize the Tree of Peace Adult Basic Education class with their instructor, Helena Usherwood and the students are Fred Liske, Clint Bonnetrouge, Fred Barnaby, Hardy McKenkie, Eric Nansaq, Andrew Crapeau, Thomas Neyelle, Billy Nelson, Patricia Rabesca, Rita Auadla and Billy Eronchi. Thank you.
-- Applause
Revert To Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery
Revert To Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery
Page 1229
The Deputy Speaker John Ningark
Thank you, Mr. Erasmus. Welcome to the Assembly. Recognition of visitors in the gallery. Item 7, written questions. Mr. Roland.
Written Question 29-13(4): Job Evaluation Process
Item 7: Written Questions
Page 1229
Floyd Roland Inuvik
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. My written question would be for the Minister of Finance, Mr. Todd.
1. What is the purpose of the most recent job evaluation process?
2. Will this have an impact on existing employees wages?
3. Will this process when finalized be brought to this Assembly?
Thank you.
Written Question 29-13(4): Job Evaluation Process
Item 7: Written Questions
Page 1229
The Deputy Speaker John Ningark
Thank you, Mr. Roland. Written questions. Item 8, returns to written questions. Item 9, replies to opening address. Item 10, petitions. Item 11, reports of standing and special committees. We have all the time in the world today. Have patience, Mr. Todd. Item 12, reports of committees on the review of bills. Item 13, tabling of documents. Mr. Picco.
Item 13: Tabling Of Documents
Item 13: Tabling Of Documents
Page 1230
Edward Picco Iqaluit
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I would like to table an appendix of the budget of the United States government fiscal year, ending 1998, concerning the Government of Canada and the United States concluding an agreement in October of 1996 in which the US agreed to make an ex gratious settlement of $100 million for environmental clean up on several former US installations in Canada, Tabled Document 82-13(4).
Item 13: Tabling Of Documents
Item 13: Tabling Of Documents
Page 1230
The Deputy Speaker John Ningark
Thank you. Tabling of documents. No further tabling of documents. Item 14, notices of motion. Item 15, notices of motions for first reading of bills. Item 16, motions. Item 17, first reading of bills. Mr. Ng.
Bill 18: An Act To Amend The Territorial Hospital Insurance Services Act, No. 2
Item 17: First Reading Of Bills
Page 1230
Kelvin Ng Kitikmeot
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I move, seconded by the honourable Member for Aivilik, that Bill 18, An Act to Amend the Territorial Hospital Insurance Services Act, No. 2 be read for the first time. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Bill 18: An Act To Amend The Territorial Hospital Insurance Services Act, No. 2
Item 17: First Reading Of Bills
Page 1230
The Deputy Speaker John Ningark
Thank you. The motion is in order. Question has been called. All those in favour raise their hands. Down please. All those opposed. None. The motion is carried. Bill 18, An Act to
Amend the Territorial Hospital Insurance Services Act, No. 2 has had first reading. First reading of bills. Item 18, second reading of bills. Mr. Todd.
Bill 15: An Act To Amend The Workers' Compensation Act
Item 18: Second Reading Of Bills
Page 1230
John Todd Keewatin Central
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I move, seconded by the honourable Member from Baffin South that Bill 15, An Act to Amend the Workers' Compensation Act be read for the second time. Mr. Speaker, this Bill amends the Workers' Compensation Act to increase the amount of the years maximum insurable renumeration. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Bill 15: An Act To Amend The Workers' Compensation Act
Item 18: Second Reading Of Bills
Page 1230
The Deputy Speaker John Ningark
Thank you, Mr. Todd. The motion is in order. To the principle of the Bill. Question has been called. All those in favour of the motion. Down. Opposed. The motion is carried. Bill 15 has had a second reading and accordingly the Bill stands referred to a committee. Second reading of bills. Mr. Arlooktoo.
Bill 16: An Act To Amend The NWT Housing Corporation Act
Item 18: Second Reading Of Bills
Page 1230
Goo Arlooktoo Baffin South
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I move, seconded by the honourable Member for Keewatin Central that Bill 16, An Act to Amend the NWT Housing Corporation Act be read for the second time. Mr. Speaker, this Bill amends the NWT Housing Corporation Act to provide that section 86 and 87 of the Financial Administration Act do not apply to guarantees made by the NWT Housing Corporation and to provide that the Executive Council may make regulations to establish the maximum total amount of all outstanding guarantees. Thank you.
Bill 16: An Act To Amend The NWT Housing Corporation Act
Item 18: Second Reading Of Bills
Page 1230
The Deputy Speaker John Ningark
Thank you, Mr. Arlooktoo. The motion is in order. To the principle of the Bill. Question has been called. All those in favour. Thank you, down. Opposed. Bill 16, An Act to Amend the NWT Housing Corporation Act has had a second reading and accordingly the Bill stands referred to a committee. Second reading of bills, Mr. Ng.
Bill 17: An Act To Amend The Territorial Hospital Insurance Services Act
Item 18: Second Reading Of Bills
Page 1230
Kelvin Ng Kitikmeot
Mr. Speaker, I move, seconded by the honourable Member for Sahtu, that Bill 17, An Act to Amend the Territorial Hospital Insurance Services Act be read for the second time. Mr. Speaker, this Bill amends the Territorial Hospital Insurance Services Act to provide that medical practitioners employed in hospitals and other health facilities are not members of the public service. Consequential amendments are also made to Schedule A and B of the Public Service Act. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Bill 17: An Act To Amend The Territorial Hospital Insurance Services Act
Item 18: Second Reading Of Bills
Page 1230
The Deputy Speaker John Ningark
Thank you, Mr. Ng. The motion is in order. To the principle of the Bill. Question has been called. All those in favour. Signify. Thank you, down. Opposed. The motion is carried. Bill 17, An Act to Amend the Territorial Hospital Insurance Services Act has had a second reading and accordingly the Bill stands referred to a committee. Second reading of bills. Mr. Ng.
Bill 17: An Act To Amend The Territorial Hospital Insurance Services Act
Item 18: Second Reading Of Bills
Page 1230
Kelvin Ng Kitikmeot
Mr. Speaker, I seek consent to proceed with second reading of Bill 18, An Act to Amend the Territorial Hospital Insurance Services Act, No. 2. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Bill 17: An Act To Amend The Territorial Hospital Insurance Services Act
Item 18: Second Reading Of Bills
Page 1230
The Deputy Speaker John Ningark
The honourable Minister is asking for consent to give a second reading. Are there any nays? No. Mr. Ng, proceed please.
Bill 18: An Act To Amend The Territorial Hospital Insurance Service Act, No. 2
Item 18: Second Reading Of Bills
Page 1230
Kelvin Ng Kitikmeot
Mr. Speaker, I move, seconded by the honourable Member for Keewatin Central, that Bill 18, An Act to Amend the Territorial Hospital Insurance Services Act, No. 2 be read for the second time. Mr. Speaker, this Bill amends the Territorial Hospital Insurance Services Act to change the name of the Act and give boards of management authority to operate, manage and control social services. The Bill makes consequential amendments to a number of other statutes to refer to the new name of the Act or to accommodate the expanded authority of boards of management. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Bill 18: An Act To Amend The Territorial Hospital Insurance Service Act, No. 2
Item 18: Second Reading Of Bills
Page 1230
The Deputy Speaker John Ningark
Thank you. The motion is in order. To the principle of the bill. Question has been called. All those in favour, please signify. Thank you, down. Opposed. The motion is carried. Bill 18, An Act to Amend the Territorial
Hospital Insurance Services Act, No. 2 has had second reading and accordingly the bill stands referred to a committee. Second reading of bills. Item 19, consideration in the committee of the whole of bills and other matters, Minister's statement 77-13(4), The Northern Employment Strategy with Mr. Steen in the chair.
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 1231
The Chair Vince Steen
I would like to call the committee to order. I have on the agenda for today the Minister's statement on the Northern Employment Strategy. I would like some direction from the committee as to how to proceed. Mr. Ootes.
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 1231
Jake Ootes Yellowknife Centre
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I would suggest that we take a 15 minute break.
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 1231
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 1231
The Chair Vince Steen
I now call the committee back to order. Perhaps Mr. Ootes should give me some direction as to how we plan to proceed here with Minister's statement 77-13(4)?
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 1231
Jake Ootes Yellowknife Centre
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I would suggest that we proceed with consideration of the Minister's statement by asking the Members if they have any comments and questions for the Minister.
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 1231
The Chair Vince Steen
Thank you, Mr. Ootes. I then open the floor to comments and questions to the Minister on Minister's statement 77-13(4). Are there any questions or comments? Mrs. Groenewegen.
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 1231
Jane Groenewegen Hay River
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. My comments on the Northern Employment Strategy that has just been presented in the House are that it is a good strategy and that the government is going in the right direction on this. However, I am somewhat concerned about the need for this government to take a coordinated approach to what they are doing. Ever since the first time that the Premier and the Finance Minister stood up and talked about the northern economy, they have been talking about reducing the presence of the government and increasing support to the private sector, which is where they believe the jobs will be created. I believe that to be true. I am somewhat amazed when I listen to the questions received by some of the federal candidates in the election coming up on Monday and the apparent belief by the people and the general public that it is the government's job to create jobs. They think that the government is going to have a large impact on the unemployment statistics. However, it is the government's role to create a climate and environment for job creation, but I do not believe it is the government's role to create jobs. That is what I am hearing from this government and that is good to hear.
However, when I had an opportunity to spend two months in my riding, when I go back to my community I hear entrepreneurial private sector individuals talking to me about initiatives and actions of the government which are scaring them and hurting their businesses. This is where this coordinated approach that I am talking about needs to be kept in mind. I hear from a local Internet provider that he has not heard definitively that his investment in the community is going to be protected when this new government funded service comes into place. He is still concerned. I hear contractors that are worried about getting business because of the non-competitive contracting that they see going on around them. I hear about the government competing with the private sector in areas of supply. In one instance, where two individuals have gone together and invested considerable money in a company and set up a business and now somebody in the civil service gets a bright idea to play business for a while and decides they will go on a power buying trip and start redistributing product to government agencies in the western Arctic. That, to me, is part of the problem. It is uncoordinated.
I also see initiatives that the government has taken and has spent considerable money on, have gone a long ways down the road on something and then changes direction mid-stream on things, as opposed to following through with them when they knew that it would take a certain amount of time to get something off the ground.
I am concerned about cuts to core funding for sectors that we already know could be and have in the past been viable, that do create jobs.
Although this is a new initiative, perhaps in our deficit reduction exercise we took away some of the underpinnings of some of the viable sectors where there is a considerable amount of employment and now we are, in a sense, replacing this under this new initiative. I have no problem with the various areas that the government is stating, community futures, infrastructure programs, training, education, and the coordination of the departments, but I do find, when you actually get right down to the grass roots level where the people live and work, there are some contradictory things that are happening. That is an area we need to address.
Some of the viable sectors in my community are the service and supply, harvesting and primary production. If we are going to have sustainable jobs in those sectors, we as a government need to continue to find ways to support those areas. The government should only be generating government jobs to the extent that they are required to efficiently deliver programs and services that cannot be sensibly and reasonably carried out by the private sector.
We look at some of the mega projects that we have our hopes pinned on here in the west, at least, with the mineral sector. We look at the big mega projects like BHP, we look at rejuvenation of the oil and gas exploration in the Beaufort Delta and these are good, but on a smaller scale, the same is true in the north as is true across Canada. Jobs are created by small and medium sized business. That has been the beauty of the economy in Hay River over the years. We do have our large employers like the Power Corporation, NTCL, Kingland Ford, we have those larger employers, but what we have is a whole lot of people who employ six, eight, and ten people. They find their market niche and they create that employment in the private sector.
I agree with the government's approach that we know we cannot afford the same degree of government jobs we have had in the past. So that is lessening. Now we want the private sector to step in, but we have to make sure that we provide assurances and as much support as we reasonably can to see that happen and not be taking actions which contradict that position. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 1232
The Chair Vince Steen
Thank you, Madam Groenewegen. I presume the Minister will respond after we have heard all comments, rather than on an individual basis. Therefore, I recognize Mr. Picco.
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 1232
Edward Picco Iqaluit
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, I would like to first start off by speaking about something that ties in with the newer employment strategy. That was the statement made by the Honourable Charles Dent on the 28th of May which was, Working Together Providing Opportunities for Students and Youth, and that did not have enough credit given to it at that time, which is part of a job strategy. That two part program was aimed at helping post secondary and senior high school students in their search for summer work. I keep hearing in this House how the Members are interested in helping students get work. I would like to take this opportunity to congratulate the Honourable Charles Dent for that initiative and the department. I know that myself and Mr. Miltenberger and Mr. Erasmus were involved in trying to get something up on the student and youth program. I congratulate the Minister on that.
On the Northern Employment Strategy. Mr. Chairman, in my region of the Northwest Territories, the Baffin region, we have the highest unemployment rate in the Northwest Territories. The Northern Employment Strategy will go a long ways in helping us alleviate some of the chronic unemployment problems that we have by the initiatives announced by the Minister. Over the past 15 months, I have continually asked and criticized this government for not having a job strategy and it is time to congratulate the government on actually coming up with a plan to put people to work. Over the last 15 months we have dealt with deficits and reductions and bad news and I think this is a good news program and plan. The government itself should be congratulated and I would also like to take this opportunity to acknowledge that myself and Mr. Erasmus and again Mr. Miltenberger were part of the working group on the Northern Employment Strategy that helped put this together.
For example, in the Baffin region, the Business Development Fund was targeted at $334,400. Under this new initiative, there will be an extra $1.49 million put into the Baffin region. That is commendable. On the grants to communities, there was $75,000 for the Baffin region. That has gone up to $150,000. The Community Initiatives Program was $469,100. That has gone up to a little over $1.1 million.
In a place where we have 50 to 60 percent unemployment, this can only mean good news. It will hopefully create some long lasting employment opportunities. Specifically for me in the constituency of Iqaluit, I am very pleased to see that one of the major items here was the restructuring of the Community Futures Program to rebase and refinance the loan fund to a tune of about $400,000. That is commendable. On infrastructure, Iqaluit had been budgeted for $146,428. We are now going to receive $252,589. Under community empowerment there was nothing budgeted last year. This year we have about $80,000. Again, I would like to congratulate the government for that initiative.
The honourable Member for Hay River talked earlier about creating the climate for job creation. Over the past several years and months we have seen the provincial, as well as the federal government, begin to move away from government being the engine that drives job creation and moving into a situation where governments are trying to create a climate for economic development. That finally seems to be taking hold here in the Northwest Territories. I guess one of the knocks on the territories has also been that since we are funded, we become wards of the state. We are trying to show that by stimulating infrastructure money and community empowerment money, as well as putting more money into loans programs that could help foster small business, we are moving into the direction that mainstream Canada has been moving in the past couple of years. That is a very good situation.
But it is not all rosy, Mr. Chairman. There are some criticisms that could be laid on the program. Having been part of the program that developed this strategy, I guess I could have had more input or had seen more input on longer term job creation and also for training. One of the skills level training out there. We tried to get people to complete grade 11 and grade 12 and hopefully get post secondary education and then what happens is that they would be able to hopefully enter the workplace. There was very little in our Northern Employment Strategy to help facilitate that and that was a shortcoming. Some of the targets that we have are going to be hard to quantify and I think we are going to have to revisit the quantification of the allocation of funds based on the monies and the allocations that have been made. I think that would be a fair criticism.
I do also note Madam Chairperson that the "have not" regions of the territories seem to have benefitted from the Northern Employment Strategy announced by the honourable chairman of the Financial Management Board on the 28th of May. It does cause some trepidation for myself to be giving constructive accolades to that individual Minister but I think that in this case that they are warranted to the government.
Now one of the main thrusts of the employment strategy, as outlined on page five, was that communities will now be held accountable for the outcomes of their employment strategies and we talk about the achievable targets that have been identified. I think the achievable targets were set a bit lower. We lowballed them a little bit. Thank you, Mr. O'Brien for that.
Thank you again Mr. O'Brien. Mr. O'Brien is telling me that he agrees with what I am saying and is very pleased to see that, in his riding, that the increase of 42 percent over last year's expenditure will help the unemployed too.
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 1233
Kevin O'Brien Kivallivik
Forty-three per cent.
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 1233
Edward Picco Iqaluit
Forty-three per cent. Yes thank you, Mr. O'Brien for that correction. So, in conclusion Madam Chairperson, I think that the strategy was well thought out. I think it goes a long way in helping us alleviate the long term unemployment problems that we have. There is more room for improvement and I will have some specific questions on the community based and regional organizations that will be working in partnership on the strategy. Thank you, Madam Chairperson.
-- Applause
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 1233
The Chair Jane Groenewegen
Thank you, Mr. Picco. I would just like to remind Members that the chair will not tolerate unparliamentary noises in the committee of the whole, Mr. O'Brien. I have on the list Mr. Steen.
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 1233
Vince Steen Nunakput
Thank you, Madam Chair. Madam Chair, I suppose it could be said that it would be hard for any Member to come out and actually criticize the government for coming out with an employment strategy that identifies the expenditure of $16 million. Having said that though, it depends, I believe, on where the money is spent and on what regions and whether or not it actually addresses the shortage of job opportunities and the opportunities for people to better themselves through permanent employment.
I think that if we look at this strategy as to what it hopes to attain as a major point, we would have to look at page two where it says "It is specifically targeted to young people and those out of work, people out of hope." Now, I wonder if the government in fact is going to accomplish what they hope to do here. My concern is that this program no doubt makes opportunities, funding available for people to enter into small business if the business opportunities are there. It also makes funding available for businesses that are established to hire students and young people and people out of work if the job opportunity is there. I do not see how this thing works towards accomplishing this if there are no job opportunities in the first place.
Let us take, for instance as examples my communities, if there are no summer work programs there is no other work. So if the government does not come forward with capital projects then there are no business opportunities, there are no job opportunities. I believe, based on observations and studies already done, the only real opportunities for expansion in my region would be at this point in time probably considered tourism. Again, it just depends on how much or how far you can expect something like tourism to be able to be developed. I believe that this incentive has been going on for four or five years at least, so therefore those business opportunities in tourism have basically been identified and fulfilled to some degree.
So we come back to the question of, if there is no government sponsored incentives like capital infrastructure programs, what is left for the local people to do? How do you have business opportunities if there is no business? How do you have job creation if there is nothing to do? How do you sponsor a student if you, yourself, are not doing anything? That is the whole question. We can only paint the buildings so many times. You can only shovel snow in the winter, so how is a student ever going to get summer work? There is no opportunity. The argument could be used then that well, a student has to leave home and go look for work somewhere else. Well, that is fine but is there funding available for that student to travel to other regions that have work? Is there funding available for them to be able to look after themselves, room and board in the other community that they have to go to? I do not see it. So, really we are suggesting here that summer student work is going to be local. Fine. I have 100 per cent support for finding work for summer students, but it has been my experience that hamlets can only do so much towards hiring students. They can only paint the graveyard and the buildings so many times until it becomes ridiculous.
What I am looking at here is, is this government really addressing those areas that have not, the have not areas? Or is this money, as the Minister suggested yesterday, going to be divided equally across the territories regardless of what is already being put forward in those areas? Let us take for instance, the Yellowknife area, the Southern Mackenzie area. There are all kinds of job opportunities there during the summer which is not sponsored directly by government. They could be mining. Then you could have exploration work towards the mining industry. There are a lot of opportunities there in the south where definitely businesses are going to be attracted to this program, they are going to take access to the program, they are going to hire summer students because it is going to save them money. They are going to make work for young people because it would be sponsored through this program. People who have access to this program will definitely benefit if the opportunities are there.
If we put on top of that the government programs that are being put in place, like highway construction, tourism parks construction, there again we have opportunities for students, young people and the unemployed to get work. But this is not going on in my region. None of this is happening. we cannot even get money for an access road. It is not even suggested in here that the low areas of the territories, where there is not much happening, that there will be some kind of preference towards more dollars in those areas. Now I have identified here the southern Mackenzie and the Yellowknife area, but let us take Nunavut now. Let us take all the infrastructure money that is going to Nunavut. Obviously there are going to be job creation opportunities there and business opportunities. Those guys are going to have opportunities to expand, get in business, hire these people and have access to this program. So therefore the opportunity was there already. Is it really necessary that this government throw some more money over there?
The federal government is throwing $150 million that way towards infrastructure, job creation, job training, $39 million for job training. Okay? Is it really necessary that we throw some more that way or should we address those areas that do not have anything happening? Now let us take this Investing in People. Again we are going to train our adults. Well I must say that in my region I have seen so much adult training that some of those guys qualify as elders now and they still have not found a job. There is nothing. There is no job. There has to be a limit to this business of adult training, training programs with no end result, no job to go to. In the past two years, I have seen cooking programs in my community. We are training people to cook. Well these women are 30 to 40 years old. If they do not know how to cook by now, they have no place in the business, but they go because there is nothing else for them to do. They are going there presumably to train to cook in the construction industry, in construction camps but in fact there are no construction camps for them to work after they finish training. So what are they going to do this winter? They are going to go back there and cook some more. That is what they are going to do. They are going to take the opportunity of this.
But let us be serious about this thing. It becomes laughable after awhile where some people have the ability to make a career out of adult training. It becomes ridiculous. Now like everything else, there is good to it and I definitely support it because it is needed. But now all of a sudden we hear the industry themselves saying that they are sick and tired of waiting for government to build that highway north. They are going to do it themselves. Well, that is good news. There again, you see, I believe like Mrs. Groenewegen said earlier, it is not the government's responsibility to create jobs and to create a workforce, everybody relying on government. I believe that to some degree. I also believe it is the government's responsibility to supply the infrastructure to attract industry that would in turn supply the jobs. I believe that, I strongly believe that and I strongly believe that this territory would be far more developed if this government would get into the business of constructing infrastructure so the oil and gas industry, so the mining industry could come into the territories and create jobs but there is nothing here.
I am not even sure the Inuvialuit Petroleum Corporation which in fact supplied jobs this year for the Inuvialuit in my region as well as other people, I am not even sure if they would qualify under this thing because it seems like every time the government comes up with a program such as this, there is a small little clause in there that says that if you own an oil company or if you own a mining outfit you do not qualify. You know there are always those clauses, so I will be asking the Minister about that later on. It is the responsibility, I believe, of the government to address those slow areas in the territory when nothing is happening there versus what is happening in other areas. It is the responsibility of this government to ensure that each and every person has opportunities for jobs, not just to support ongoing programs already. This is what I feel is happening here, is that those areas that have the job opportunities, have the business opportunists, will in fact benefit from this program. I fail to see, for instance, how the people in Sachs Harbour, the people in Holman Island would have opportunity to gain from this program to the extent that would be available to a person in Yellowknife, a person in Nunavut. I have already heard rumblings that the capital projects plan for Sachs Harbour and Holman Island are on the shelf for this year. Now if that is not bad enough, we come along with this and they say, well, we will support those job creation programs. Fine. In order for the people to take advantage of this program, they would have to have the capital project first. If the capital projects do not go ahead, there is nothing in those communities. There is nothing else.
My point, Madam Chair, is that I feel there is a shortage here, by this government, to do something about promoting something in the Mackenzie Delta for there is no more work, to do something about promoting some infrastructure work, whatever, in the Beaufort region, rather than using the argument that we are spreading the money equally across the territories. You are not. You are spreading the money where the opportunities are already there. Thank you.
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 1234
The Chair Jane Groenewegen
Thank you, Mr. Steen. I have Mr. Miltenberger and Mr. Ootes. Mr. Miltenberger.
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 1234
Michael Miltenberger Thebacha
Thank you, Madam Chair. I was quite surprised to hear the comments from my colleague from Iqaluit. It sounded like he was reading a ministerial press release on this program. It was nice to hear that he is supportive of it since, as he indicated, we did work on this with Cabinet.
Madam Chair, we have just come through 18 months, as has already noted by some Members, of deficit reduction and a bleak, sort of black time in terms of the north, having to do things that have never had to be done before and the pressures and stress that is causing communities and the economies in communities. I see this Northern Employment Strategy as a good first step. Very clearly, it is targeted as a short term program, but it is a start. We have to clearly recognize that unless we address some of the fundamental drivers that are effecting us, we are never going to be able to do the things that people want, which is to develop a strong private economy that creates real jobs. Until we come to grips with issues like the birth rate and the alcohol problems, the other social problems, the housing issues, the education issues, then we are going to be, in my opinion always, doomed to an endless cycle of short term job strategies. While this is a start to move from the negative dark side of trying to balance our books and deficit reduction to the stronger, more positive side of economic development, this is not the final answer. I think that is recognized.
I support the contents of this. I think the focus on business and employment outside of government is critical. And, in my opinion while it may not do it perfectly, it does recognize the regional differences when you look at the breakdown of the regions and the money. It may not be done as well as it possibly could have been or to have all the money go to where the greatest need is, but there is need everywhere, it is just a matter of scale. So, Madam Chair, I think this is a good start, but we have to maintain the focus on the strong, non-government based economy that creates real jobs. As Mr. Steen said, it is not just a case of constantly repainting the same building or shovelling snow in the winter time. Until we take the time as a government, and I do not know if this government will have time in its life to significantly address the fundamental drivers that I have already mentioned, we are going to have a tough time doing more than short term job strategy. This is a good step to get us towards division, and then the onus falls on the two new legislatures, east and west, to try to do the significant restructuring and economic development that each territory is going to require if they are going to survive as viable entities. Thank you, Madam Chair.
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 1235
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 1235
Jake Ootes Yellowknife Centre
Thank you, Madam Chair. As has already been said, the northern labour market is very gloomy and we have a lot of unemployment, specifically in all the communities throughout the territories and I do not see that this government is going to be the generator itself of a lot of employment over the next couple of years. We are holding the line on our employment possibilities. Hopefully we have come to the end of our layoffs. But the fact that we are not creating jobs as a government employer and the fact that our population is growing substantially is creating a real conundrum for young people and for those who are out of work and looking for work. So far, of course, we are going to be remembered by people for our cutback efforts. I hope that this particular program can set us on the road to changing peoples minds a bit about what we are going to be noted for. I think there is a need for a dual program in my mind to generate a more positive outlook. Certainly, one is an infrastructure program where short term jobs can be created, especially in the communities, because it is very true, how do you create permanent employment in a community? It is extremely difficult because there is no economy there. Nothing for people to do there. But by the same token, we also have to remember that we need to have sustainable jobs. We cannot just put 100 percent into jobs that are short term. We have to try and build, in this whole program, a long term outlook as well.
I am leading to, of course and as everybody else agrees and has said, we know that business is the area that this employment can be provided in. In order to do that we have to provide the environment for small business and larger businesses to be able to create the jobs. Business and entrepreneurs are going to be the engine for our future economy. It is important that the government, in its process, looks at its particular departments and programs and aligns those programs and services to directly support those private sector initiatives but I want to watch that we do not get into a funding process to business where it interferes with competing businesses.
I have gone through this myself in my past, where government programs are established to provide grants and supports and it is given in a competitive environment where one company gets it and the other company does not get it and one company has to lay off workers, the other company is able to expand. That is a very real fact and it occurs frequently when government establishes its programs so we need to ensure that what we produce is very fair, very accessible to everybody, and that it does not disrupt the private sector portion of our industry. When I looked at this program, on a general basis, I think it is needed. I am glad the government is doing it. I want to compliment the government on one specific area already, and that is the Student Employment Program. I spoke the other day about that and I think the government is on the right track. You are helping private industry to create those summer jobs and I think that is very complimentary.
I would like to hear from the Minister about the Investment Support Program, what is happening in that end? Because, again, I think the Aurora Fund is a very good program and we have raised a lot of money. The Minister also had some other thrusts and perhaps he could tell us a little more about that.
Businesses do need encouragement and support. I do not know right off the top of my head what to suggest, but perhaps there are methodologies by which we could do this. I know our taxes here in the territories are lower than elsewhere in the country, but so they should be. Perhaps we should look at that and say, maybe they should be even lower because our environment is pretty expensive in which to operate, especially when you go outside of areas like Yellowknife.
The answer, in the long run, is that we need more mega projects. We need more mining projects. There is a tremendous spin-off of that. We need more oil and gas projects because they are the ones that provide extensive jobs. Mining alone, over the past 5 years, has provided a lot of operators in the western Arctic with opportunities to do expediting work, provide employment for people. It has been done through the exploration work, exploration camps, geologists get jobs, the local firms here have certainly benefited. Frankly, I do not know what we would have done had we not had this mining activity take place, which started back in 1992. I want to compliment a guy like Chuck Fipke for what he has done because, ladies and gentlemen, he persevered for 10 years to find that source. Look at what it has done for us. Yes, he is a southerner, but we sometimes have to say, southerners are going to play a major, major role with us in developing our territory and we should sometimes welcome the input of southerners.
We also need a large infrastructure program. We need a highways to resources program. It will open up the areas that we are in to, but that ties in with the settlement of treaty rights and land claims and so we have an urgency to encourage the federal government and the aboriginal groups to address these issues. While we do not have a direct hand in that, I think we need to continually support that effort.
I was going to address Mr. Steen's comments, Madam Chair, regarding the division of these assets. Yes, it is true the east has its infrastructure program. I am going to be sensitive as well. The east has needed a lot and they are obviously getting $150 million but I would like us to be sensitive to what Mr. Steen has said, there is perhaps some thought to be put to that. I think that, additionally, in the training end, I feel we do need to put money into training and education. I agree with Mr. Steen. How many times do we send people through programs? The bottom line is job creation, that is what it is all about and that has to be the first thing. I personally feel we have got to do that through mega projects, infrastructure, job creation programs in the communities, short term base if necessary and support ultimately, very good support for our local territorial industries because with those mega projects, we will get the spin off businesses. Thank you, Madam Chair.
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 1236
The Chair Jane Groenewegen
Thank you, Mr. Ootes. Would the Minister like to take this opportunity to respond to some of the comments that he has heard?
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 1236
John Todd Keewatin Central
Madam Chair, indeed. I think that we talked about contradictions and life tends to be a series of contradictions so we live through that as we go ahead. You also indicated in your comments about the need for a coordinated approach and I think that this model, while it is not a panacea and I said that in my opening statement when I announced it this week, was done in a very cooperative way with my colleagues, Madame Thompson, Mr. Kakfwi, Mr. Dent and myself in terms of putting it together and, of course, getting the support of Cabinet. So I think there was a coordinated timely approach to this initiative and it did have some advice from the gentlemen across the floor and of course, ultimately, the Government Operations Committee.
You know I worry sometimes when I hear Mr. Steen and others assuming that we are going to solve all the world's ills out there in terms of employment. I want to give you some hard facts that you better start dealing with. When you talk about what this government is doing, you need to understand it. Right now there are 9,000 people unemployed in the Northwest Territories. The BHP camp is spending $600 million in capital and is going to create 800 jobs. It is spending $600 million to create 800 jobs. We have got 9,000 people unemployed right now. Sixty per cent of our population, whether you look east or west and I am not prepared to debate that right now, I am the Minister of the territories, 60 per cent of our population under the age of 15 for heaven's sakes. These are blunt, hard realities that you want to deal with. So the government is not going to solve all the unemployment ills of the country. It is impossible. If the private sector is investing $600 or $700 million in a mine that is going to create 800 permanent jobs, I mean excuse me, I have $60 million here and we have 9,000 people unemployed and it is going to double in the next ten years. I think it is important to put the discussion in that context. It is a harsh reality but it is the context and this government has not looked at this program in isolation of everything else we are doing.
My colleague, the Minister of the Housing Corporation, did announce earlier in the year, and some of you are for it and some of you are against it, Plan 2000 in terms of creating jobs and creating employment. We are looking at alternatives, as some suggested, for capital investment, not just the Aurora Fund and I will announce the details of that next week, and that is a good news story. We are also looking at an equity fund with the banks, we are looking at the possibility of reinvesting RRSPs that northerners invest $30 to $40 million a year in. So we need to provide a climate and some opportunities out there for the private sector to take up the slack because I do not care who is going to be in this job after me, I want to be on record now saying this government, future governments, cannot, will not be the engine of the economy. It is simply not possible. You are certainly not going to solve overnight a population that is busting at the seams, east and west, that has 9,000 people unemployed et cetera. I think it is important to put it in that, but this government is trying to make some changes. We are trying to make the level playing field for the private sector to take up some of the slack. I know it can do it all. I have been there, done that. I am going back there after this job is all over. I know what it is like. I know what it is like out there to try to make a dollar, contrary to some people out there who think the government can be the be all, end all. It simply cannot.
We need to look at a series of initiatives to bring a level playing field and provide some incentives for the private sector to pick up the slack. That is what we are trying to do with this program. We are also trying to do it when we are looking at the regulations, make it easier. We are also looking at and I say again, with respect to corporate taxes, there are the advocates out there who say we should raise taxes, look at revenues. If I increase the personal income tax of everybody in the Northwest Territories I get $8 million increasing it five points. I would not get to the airport and neither would any of you guys if you supported it, and ladies, if I increase the SIN taxes, it is $600,000, what they call the SIN taxes. What am I going to do, increase taxes to elders on their vehicles? You saw what happened when Mr. Dent tried to bring forward a user pay/user say in relationship to the fuel subsidy.
The ability for this government to generate its own revenues is marginal. I am not going to hide that, it is marginal. I think Mr. Ootes is correct we need to find a way in which to level the playing field, encourage the private sector to move forward. It will not be all the solution to a very difficult problem but it will be part of the solution and in the development of this employment strategy that was the philosophy that we approached, we need to find ways and means to encourage the private sector to lever dollars and to get more bang for our buck.
And yes, Mr. Steen is correct, it is short term, there is no question. It is short term, it is a two year program and hopefully at the end of the day it will provide some permanent jobs. We are predicting, based on the money that we have, which is if you take the $16 million plus the rest you are talking a $30 million program, we are projecting 1,000 jobs. I ask all of you and those out there, who has come forward with other alternatives? My door is open every day. You know, whether it is Alternatives North or whether it is the unions or whether it is the private sector, they have got to come forward with creative solutions to job creation and I believe in some small way, we are trying to do that.
I think the question that Madam Chair raised about the downsizing hurting the private sector, of course it has, it has hurt everybody. Everybody experiences the pain of downsizing. The guy who has a hotel has less occupancy. The guy in the construction business has less construction, we cut the capital budget. The guy who runs the little corner store, there is less disposal income, we cut people's wages and benefits. Its the reality. I make no apologies for that. What has to happen is the corporate entity has to adjust and it can adjust a heck of a lot quicker, from my experience, than government can to the new fiscal realities that are out there. We need to put people to work in a hurry as Mr. Picco said in his comments and that is what we are going to do. Mr. Kakfwi and his team are up, ready and running for Monday morning, or Tuesday morning to move on this project, hence the reason why we enhanced existing programs so we can get the money out there and a couple of new programs. The question has been raised about fairness and equity. We worked hard in the distribution of the dollars to make sure that we looked at the places that were being hurt the most and there are a number of these programs, the distribution of the dollars was based on unemployment, nothing else.
I will share it with the House, where the money is being spent, whether it is Arviat, Baker Lake, Cape Dorset, or Fort McPherson wherever. I think to the best of our ability we have tried to redistribute where people are hurting the most because that has been our position. Because what did we say in the front end? We said we want to help students and people who are unemployed, people on income support et cetera, that is what we are saying and I think that is what we have done. As Mr. Miltenberger says, it may not be perfect, but that is certainly what the intent was.
The other thing that was asked by Mr. Steen was, I believe, about results. Again, if you listen to the program and the way we have designed this thing, this program is clearly results orientated. We want to know on a quarterly, six month and yearly basis what the return on investment has been in relationship to the government spending. And since I have taken over as Finance Minister of this government, that has been my modis operandi from day one. It has not always worked the way in which I wanted to, but that has always been my philosophy. If we are spending a dollar, I want to know what the return for investment is. If we are building a park, what is the return on it? If we are creating jobs, what is the return on it? If we are putting money into jobs creation, how much money are we getting? The other basic component of this program is leverage.
Mr. Steen wonders if the Inuvialuit Development Corporation access this program. Absolutely. We are counting on it so we can lever dollars, this program, federal dollars, claim dollars, as they have done very successfully in my region, if I may say so in the Kivalliq Partnership and, as a matter of fact, one of the authors of this report and this proposal was the senior bureaucrat that works for Mr. Kakfwi that put the Kivalliq Partnership together in the Keewatin and I am proud to say that. So, absolutely we expect that to happen.
The other concern was about the larger mega projects out there. We simply have not got the capacity with our current fiscal resources where we have shrunk the capital budget significantly, $30 to $40 million I believe, I stand to be corrected, it was somewhere around there, to go into a major fiscal investment. What we are doing, and Mr. Antoine is running with this initiative, we are working very hard to put a transportation strategy in place that brings in a private sector, federal government, territorial partnership in infrastructure needs, whether it is highways, whether it is wharves and docks and we all know that story, for the industry. I mean there are some who are naive enough to think it is all selfish looking after your own riding. The reality is we need to, in my opinion anyway, the resources companies that are going to give us the big bang for our buck and join with them in trying to create and build the infrastructure necessary.
Now I know we have done this. As the previous Minister of Transportation, this has been going on for a long time and there may be the cynics out there who suggest that it is just more nonsense and idle rhetoric. I do not think it is. I think there is, if I can use the word deliberately, a desperate need to accelerate the need, and I have said this publicly, for public/private partnerships in the development of infrastructure. We know Mr. Henry and others were down in Calgary recently trying to take some initiative and some lead in the development of a bridge project over the Mackenzie River in a partnership with the private sector. That is a commendable initiative. Mr. Antoine is doing exactly the same thing in terms of highways, roads and infrastructure and we are trying to, somewhat similar, where there is development whether it is in the Keewatin, Baffin or in the Deh Cho area. So there is a concerted effort on the part of the government to do that.
You know, one of the things I have got to say because I think it is important for the record, and you are probably going to say he is back at that old deficit strategy idea again, the reality is and we are holding the line on recruitment, let me assure you, you have no choice. This government can no longer continue to recruit at the levels in which it recruited in the past. If we had not taken the steps that we took over the last little while and it has impacted, hence the reason we are bringing this program in, we would have been left with an enormous deficit. Mr. Ootes' comment about what we will be remembered by, I hope at some point certainly not in the not to distant future but in the future, that we will be remembered for ensuring our children that follow us and the people that follow us do not inherit the debt that we could have accumulated if we had not done what we have done. I think that is important.
Sustainable jobs in my opinion, as was asked by a number of Members, simply cannot continue to come from the government. I defy anybody around this table knowing the condition of this government, knowing the demographics that are going on, to demonstrate to me where it can. We are going to have a tough enough time just keeping our heads above water delivering the essential services, I say this deliberately, I have waited for this opportunity, to the people that we represent and we must move forward to do that in an optimistic way. This program that we present to you today is not, as I say, the be all, end all, but it is some small way, and as Mr. Miltenberger says, a start, to trying to create a positive attitude, if you want or positive approach, to job creation.
One other issue that was raised by, I cannot remember which Member it was - I have so many notes here, one of the issues that was raised was the corporate tax. I think it was Mr. Ootes. A concern that I would have at this stage of the game, while this government has finished hopefully with its overall downsizing, we are moving on to more important and creative solutions to our problems. I fundamentally believe as the Finance Minister if the private sector has to step up to the plate we had better make sure, as Mr. Ootes says that our corporate tax structure is competitive, that the rules and regulations are clear and that the partnerships are fair. While I am concerned, and I have said this to a number of Members, concerned about how government spending is affecting the lives of northerners I am as equally concerned if the flight of investment capital leaves. That will only compound the situation that we are currently in if the flight of investment capital leaves.
We need to reassure those entrepreneurs and corporate entities and aboriginal development corporations that there is a return for investment if they continue to invest in this country. Do not underplay that issue gentlemen and ladies, if we do not find a way to reassure the investment world whether it is in the local base or whether it is external, because I also agree with Mr. Ootes there is clearly a need for external new capital into the system, we cannot regurgitate the same existing dollars all the time. Eventually it will bust. Certainly, we need to do that and I think from a government perspective, my colleague Mr. Kakfwi, and I are working extremely hard to conclude Aurora Fund 1, move on to Aurora Fund 2 and we are working on an equity fund and looking at the RRSP possibility of it being developed in small business and we will be reporting that back to the House soon. So there is a desire there to do that.
In conclusion, Mr. Chair, sorry, I know that this is not a panacea. I know that it does not answer all the problems and all the questions but I know if we do nothing the situation will only get worse. This is one small part, one step forward in trying to create employment opportunities for the less fortunate and for the youth of this country. It is a genuine effort on the part of this government and my colleagues in Cabinet to demonstrate to the people in the territories that we want to do them well. Thank you.
---Applause
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 1238
The Chair Vince Steen
Thank you, Mr. Todd. For the record, we are on Minister's Statement 77-13(4). Are there any further comments or questions from the Members on this item? Could I receive direction from the committee as to how do we proceed here? Are we to consider this item as finished? Mr. Erasmus.
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 1238
Roy Erasmus Yellowknife North
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I move that we report progress.
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 1238
The Chair Vince Steen
Thank you, Mr. Erasmus. The motion is in order, not debateable. All those in favour of the motion? All those opposed? Abstaining? The motion is passed. I will now rise and report progress.
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 1238
The Deputy Speaker John Ningark
Item 20, report of committee of the whole. Mr. Steen.
Item 20: Report Of Committee Of The Whole
Item 20: Report Of Committee Of The Whole
Page 1238
Vince Steen Nunakput
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, your committee has been considering Minister's Statement 77-13(4) and would like to report progress. Mr. Speaker, I move that the report of the committee of the whole be concurred with.
Item 20: Report Of Committee Of The Whole
Item 20: Report Of Committee Of The Whole
Page 1238
The Deputy Speaker John Ningark
Is there a seconder? Seconded by Mr. Roland. The motion is in order. All those in favour? Thank you. Down. Opposed? The motion is carried. Item 21, third reading of bills. Third reading of bills. Item 22, Mr. Clerk, orders of the day.
Item 22: Orders Of The Day
Item 22: Orders Of The Day
Page 1238
Clerk Of The House Mr. David Hamilton
Mr. Speaker, there will be a meeting of the Western Caucus immediately after adjournment. There will be a meeting of the Standing Committee on Government Operations at 2:00 p.m. this afternoon. Meetings for Monday morning at 9:00 a.m. of the Standing Committee on Social Programs and at 11:00 a.m. of the Ordinary Members Caucus.
Orders of the day for Monday, June 2, 1997:
1. Prayer
2. Ministers' Statements
3. Members' Statements
4. Returns to Oral Questions
5. Recognition of Visitors in the Gallery
6. Oral Questions
7. Written Questions
8. Returns to Written Questions
9. Replies to Opening Address
10. Petitions
11. Reports of Standing and Special Committees
12. Reports of Committees on the Review of Bills
13. Tabling of Documents
14. Notices of Motion
15. Notices of Motion for First Reading of Bills
16. Motions
- Motion 17-13(4), Establishment of a National
Environment Recreation Park And Certain Outdoor Recreation Parks
17. First Reading of Bills 18. Second Reading of Bills
19. Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
- Minister's Statement 77-13(4), The Northern Employment Strategy
20. Report of Committee of the Whole
21. Third Reading of Bills
22. Orders of the Day
Item 22: Orders Of The Day
Item 22: Orders Of The Day
Page 1239
The Deputy Speaker John Ningark
Thank you, Mr. Clerk. This House stands adjourned until Monday, June 2nd at
1:30 p.m.
-- ADJOURNMENT
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