This is page numbers 1275 - 1303 of the Hansard for the 13th Assembly, 4th Session. The original version can be accessed on the Legislative Assembly's website or by contacting the Legislative Assembly Library. The word of the day was north.

Topics

Members Present

Honourable Jim Antoine, Honourable Goo Arlooktoo, Mr. Barnabas, Honourable Charles Dent, Mr. Enuaraq, Mr. Erasmus, Mr. Evaloarjuk, Honourable Sam Gargan, Mrs. Groenewegen, Mr. Henry, Honourable Stephen Kakfwi, Mr. Krutko, Mr. Miltenberger, Honourable Don Morin, Honourable Kelvin Ng, Mr. Ningark, Mr. O'Brien, Mr. Ootes, Mr. Picco, Mr. Rabesca, Mr. Roland, Mr. Steen, Honourable Manitok Thompson, Honourable John Todd.

Oh, God, may your spirit and guidance be in us as we work for the benefit of all our people, for peace and justice in our land and for constant recognition of the dignity and aspirations of those whom we serve. Amen.

Item 1: Prayer
Item 1: Prayer

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The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Thank you, Mr. Rabesca. Good afternoon. Orders of the day. Item 2, Ministers' statements. Mr. Morin.

Minister's Statement 87-13(4): Federal Election
Item 2: Ministers' Statements

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Don Morin Tu Nedhe

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. On behalf of the Government of the Northwest Territories, I would like to extend congratulations to Prime Minister Jean Chretien on his re-election and on the return of a Liberal majority government.

-- Applause

Minister's Statement 87-13(4): Federal Election
Item 2: Ministers' Statements

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Don Morin Tu Nedhe

Mr. Speaker, it will be good to see familiar faces as we continue to work with the federal government in negotiating and working together to protect and secure the interests of the north. We also welcome the new faces that will be at the table, including a new Minister of Indian Affairs and Northern Development and the fresh perspectives they will be able to bring to our discussions.

Closer to home, I would also like to extend congratulations to Western Arctic MP Ethel Blondin-Andrews on her election for a third term as the Member of Parliament and to Nancy Karetak Lindell who was elected yesterday to serve her first term as the Member of Parliament for Nunavut. I look forward to working with both of you in serving the citizens in the north and in tackling the challenges we have as leaders in this historic times in Canada's north. Finally, I would also like to extend congratulations to Louise Hardy, who was elected to serve as the Member of Parliament for the Yukon.

Mr. Speaker, as we work on improving social and economic conditions for the people of the north and as we move toward the creation of two new territories in 1999, a strong working relationship between all levels of government is more important now than it has ever been. The north is a vital part of Canada's political and economic future and as such, we look forward to working with all Members of the newly elected federal government to ensure that future is a strong one for all northerners. Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mahsi Cho.

-- Applause

Minister's Statement 87-13(4): Federal Election
Item 2: Ministers' Statements

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The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Thank you, Mr. Morin. Ministers' statements. Ms. Thompson.

Minister's Statement 88-13(4): Congratulations To Female Members Of Parliament
Item 2: Ministers' Statements

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Manitok Thompson Aivilik

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I would like to congratulate three women who were elected to represent Canada's three northern ridings in Parliament. Ethel Blondin-Andrew in the Western Arctic riding, Nancy Karetak Lindell in the Nunavut riding and Louise Hardy in the Yukon riding have proven that you do not need a law to ensure that women are elected to a political office. In fact Mr. Speaker, 25 percent of successful candidates in yesterday's election are women.

These women won because of their skills and determination and because they believe in themselves and their potential. Mr. Speaker, these women are a source of inspiration for other women to take up the political challenge and succeed.

Minister's Statement 88-13(4): Congratulations To Female Members Of Parliament
Item 2: Ministers' Statements

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The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Thank you, Ms. Thompson. Ministers' statements. Mr. Dent.

Minister's Statement 89-13(4): Healthy Children Initiative
Item 2: Ministers' Statements

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Charles Dent

Charles Dent Yellowknife Frame Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, there is widespread recognition that the early childhood years are crucial to the development of healthy children. From conception to age five or six, all children develop the foundation of their physical, social, emotional and intellectual skills and attitudes. Delays in this early development can result from many risk factors during both the prenatal period and early childhood. Potential difficulties in school and later life can be minimized or prevented through

programs and services to support children and their families during these early years.

Today I would like to announce the Healthy Children Initiative in partnership with my colleague, the Honourable Kelvin Ng, Minister of Health and Social Services. The vision of the initiative is healthy children born to healthy parents, growing up in strong and supportive families in caring communities. This year $3.75 million has been allocated this year to help communities support the healthy development of their young children. A formula has been developed to distribute funding to each community. A similar amount will be proposed in the department's 1998/99 business plan.

The Department of Education, Culture and Employment and the Department of Health and Social Services have developed a framework that describes the vision, principles, scope and options for action. The document is designed as a guide for community members, community government, service delivery boards and agencies and government departments in developing and implementing early childhood intervention programs and services. Any project proposed under this initiative must meet its vision and principles.

The framework document and information on how to apply for funding will be sent to communities and stakeholder groups shortly. Further information on how to apply for funding can be obtained from regional offices of the Department of Education, Culture and Employment.

Mr. Speaker, the Healthy Children Initiative represents an investment in our most important resource, the children of the Northwest Territories. I look forward to seeing the range of programs and services that communities develop to meet the needs of young children and their families. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

-- Applause

Minister's Statement 89-13(4): Healthy Children Initiative
Item 2: Ministers' Statements

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The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Thank you, Mr. Dent. Ministers' statements. Mr. Kakfwi.

Minister's Statement 90-13(4): Pollution Prevention Recognition And Awards Program
Item 2: Ministers' Statements

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Stephen Kakfwi

Stephen Kakfwi Sahtu

Mr. Speaker, in August, 1996, I had the privilege of announcing the creation of the Northwest Territories Pollution Prevention Awards Program. These awards recognize northern companies that demonstrate leadership in reducing pollution which originates from their daily operations. At the April annual general meeting of the Northwest Territories Chamber of Commerce, two northern companies, White Bear Chrysler and Canarctic Graphics were recognized for their achievements in this area.

As a part of this week's Environment Week celebrations, the Canadian Council of Ministers of the Environment announced a national recognition and award program on pollution prevention. By doing so, Canada's Environment Ministers have challenged all Canadian organizations, large and small, to develop ways in which innovation and ingenuity can help them reduce pollution and achieve their goals.

Increasingly, Mr. Speaker, pollution prevention is becoming the strategy of choice for environmental protection in Canada. I am pleased that the Northwest Territories is at the forefront of promoting this strategy through our own northern awards and recognition program. Thank you.

-- Applause

Minister's Statement 90-13(4): Pollution Prevention Recognition And Awards Program
Item 2: Ministers' Statements

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The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Thank you, Mr. Kakfwi. Ministers' statements. Item 3, Members' statements. Mr. Krutko.

Member's Statement 375-13(4): Fort Mcpherson Graduation Class
Item 3: Members' Statements

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David Krutko

David Krutko Mackenzie Delta

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I rise today to pay particular attention to a very special group of young people from the community of Fort McPherson. Mr. Speaker, the graduating class of 1997 is made up of Tommy Blake, Shaun Vittrekwa, Joanne Francis, Alisa Blake, Roberta Alexie, and Laura Vittrekwa. This group, Mr. Speaker, certainly have had to work harder than your average student in order to graduate in time this year.

Since their school burnt down in the early part of January, 1996, this group of young people had to deal with the stress and uncertainty, not to mention makeshift classrooms and limited resources. For well over a year, these students were being bumped from one temporary facility to another in order to complete their secondary education.

I am very proud, Mr. Speaker, to say that they did it. On June 13, 1997, the six hardy students will be the first ever graduating class in Fort McPherson's new Chief Julius School. I am sure, Mr. Speaker, that all my colleagues here in the Assembly will join me to congratulate this special group of young people and believe that they will continue on to make better and better endeavours. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

-- Applause

Member's Statement 375-13(4): Fort Mcpherson Graduation Class
Item 3: Members' Statements

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The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Thank you, Mr. Krutko. Members' statements. Mr. Miltenberger.

Member's Statement 376-13(4): Members' Summer Workload
Item 3: Members' Statements

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Michael Miltenberger

Michael Miltenberger Thebacha

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. In keeping with the Liberal sentiment expressed in this House this afternoon, I would just like to touch briefly on the issue of extended adjournment which we are going to be entering into at the end of Thursday, where we intend to recess until October. Mr. Speaker, I have found that every time we go on extended adjournment or recess, there is a perception out there that we are all on holidays. I would like to point out very clearly, there are many parts to the MLA's work and the Session is only one small part.

Mr. Speaker, while we will be in recess, we will all be working in our constituencies on many issues that have been probably long overlooked or that we have to catch up on. We have to worry about programs for our communities and the Northern Employment Strategy, issues like community empowerment, economic development and in my case, I am interested in a South Slave leaders meetings as well as mine training. There are also western issues that affect us from the west as there are division issues and Nunavut issues that affect those from the east, things like formula negotiations, the constitutional work, the assemblies over the course of the summer not to mention all the local and regional meetings that we will all be attending during the course of the summer.

In addition there is going to be committee work. For those on the Social Programs Committee, we have the Family Law Review. We have to look at the mid-year review departments that are coming up as well as all the work related to division that will be going on during the course of the summer. We have been away from our ridings for a long time. There is a lot of catching up to do. There is a lot of work to do and this summer, hopefully, will be for our constituents. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

-- Applause

Member's Statement 376-13(4): Members' Summer Workload
Item 3: Members' Statements

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The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Thank you, Mr. Miltenberger. Members' statements. Mr. Ootes.

Member's Statement 377-13(4): Transfer Of Federal Positions To The North
Item 3: Members' Statements

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Jake Ootes

Jake Ootes Yellowknife Centre

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I rise today on a matter of serious concern to all of us; job losses. It is no secret that we have had many job losses because of the downsizing of our government and in the west will face further losses because of division. But today I wish to propose a constructive proposal to this problem that will benefit not just us here in the west and in my constituency but all of the north, Nunavut and in the western Arctic.

There are many federal public servants in various departments in the south and throughout southern Canada who are working on northern programs and who are more appropriately and should be located here in the north. I am speaking of the Department of Indian Affairs and Northern Development, Natural Resources Canada, Environment Canada, Fisheries and Oceans, and agencies such as the National Energy Board. Federal employees with responsibilities for the north should be located here in the north. The employees will be more sensitive and more aware of our problems when they are here. The federal government has a responsibility in this and they have a golden opportunity to replenish lost jobs here in the north and to transfer those to where they belong. It will assist our ailing economy.

I was pleased with the Premier's statement yesterday about him achieving an endorsement and support from the western Premiers to transfer natural resource responsibilities and many federal employees working in those areas. Having jobs in the north is not only good for our economy and tax base, but it will result in a better delivery of programs to us here in the north. In the west, we are building part of our economy around the mining industry and the resource industry such as oil and gas, but we cannot get the tax royalties for that so I feel the least the federal government can do, is assist us by transferring those jobs here. We will soon have a new Minister of Indian and Northern Affairs and I would urge all of us to pursue this initiative. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

-- Applause

Member's Statement 377-13(4): Transfer Of Federal Positions To The North
Item 3: Members' Statements

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The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Thank you, Mr. Ootes. Members' statements. Mr. Henry.

Member's Statement 378-13(4): Member's Right To Free Speech
Item 3: Members' Statements

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Seamus Henry Yellowknife South

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, working in this Assembly can be a challenge. The rules and procedures can be confining. For example, many of us have trouble staying exactly within the two and a half minute time limit for Members' statements. Seldom does a day go by that someone does not have to ask for unanimous consent to finish their statement.

However, the rules are there for a reason. They help to make sure that everyone has an opportunity to contribute and to question. They provide Members with time to think about issues before agreeing to formal motions and critical legislation. One of the things that makes the rules bearable is the courtesy of other Members. For the most part, we accept the opposing views of each other. Although we may not always agree, we have learned that in a democracy, each of us has the right to express the views of our constituents on any topic.

Mr. Speaker, I know the views I have expressed in this House have been contrary to those of other Members on more than one occasion. I would like to take this opportunity to thank my colleagues for the courtesy they have extended in ensuring that I can fulfil my Member's privilege to free speech. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

-- Applause

Member's Statement 378-13(4): Member's Right To Free Speech
Item 3: Members' Statements

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The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Thank you, Mr. Henry. Members' statements. Mr. Rabesca.

Member's Statement 379-13(4): North Slave Geographic Location
Item 3: Members' Statements

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James Rabesca North Slave

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, today I would like to congratulate Ethel Blondin-Andrew for her convincing victory in last night's election. It will be a privilege working with her over the next few years. I would also like to congratulate all candidates across our nation that took the time and energy to put their names forward to run for this election.

Last night while I was watching the results beginning to flash across my TV, I had a chance to read Monday's edition of the News/North. To my amazement I found that myself and the rest of my residents of Rae Edzo and Rae Lakes were no longer part of the North Slave region but in fact we had miraculously moved to the South Slave. I guess, if nothing else, the move would definitely increase the South Slave population considerably but I wonder what will happen with our landclaim negotiations and all the other projects and negotiations that we in Rae Edzo are working on.

Mr. Speaker, I realize this of course is an error on someone's part, but whose error is it should be the question. Is it Stats Canada or News/North? In closing, Mr. Speaker, for the record let me assure everyone that Rae Edzo and Rae Lakes have not moved to South Slave, but rather they are well situated in North Slave. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

-- Applause

Member's Statement 379-13(4): North Slave Geographic Location
Item 3: Members' Statements

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The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Thank you, Mr. Rabesca. Members' statements. Mr. Picco.

Member's Statement 380-13(4): Nunavut Electoral Boundaries Commission
Item 3: Members' Statements

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Edward Picco Iqaluit

Thank you, Mr. Speaker and good afternoon. Mr. Speaker, I have just recently done a written submission to the Nunavut Boundaries Commission and I submit that there should be 20 representatives in the new Nunavut Legislative Assembly. There are a number of factors which I believe should be considered in setting the boundaries for these new ridings. Number one is voter parity. In various court cases it has been determined that section 3 of the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms does not demand strict voter equality. Instead, voter parity is used as the guidelines. In both British Columbia and Saskatchewan the same principle has been used and tested in the courts. They try to ensure that voter populations fall within 25 percent of the average voter population per constituency in urban and rural ridings. In Saskatchewan there is also provision that northern ridings should be within 50 percent of the average where there are pressing and substantial concerns. With a 20 seat Legislature, it should be possible to adhere closely to these principles.

The second item I have been looking at, Mr. Speaker, in my written submission is limiting the distances included in a single riding. It is difficult for MLAs to travel long distances between communities in their ridings, therefore the ridings should recognize the need to keep travel down to a minimum to lower costs. Anticipated future growth, although voter priority is based on the actual number of votes, it is also useful to look at the total population statistics to determine whether there will be a dramatic shift in a riding in the foreseeable future. For example, in Iqaluit, we have seen an 18 percent increase in our population since the 1991 census. Based on these considerations, I would propose that the Nunavut Boundaries Commission consider the ridings as I have outlined them in the attached table. Seventeen of the 20 ridings would fall within the 25 percent variation from average voters. All of the ridings fall within a 50 percent variation.

Mr. Speaker, for example I would suggest that Iqaluit would have three ridings.

Member's Statement 380-13(4): Nunavut Electoral Boundaries Commission
Item 3: Members' Statements

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Some Hon. Members

Hey, hey.

Member's Statement 380-13(4): Nunavut Electoral Boundaries Commission
Item 3: Members' Statements

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Edward Picco Iqaluit

Mr. Speaker, there must be some sort of democracy here, Mr. Speaker, that would allow me to have another opportunity to represent the people of Nunavut and I think those three ridings would do it.

-- Laughter

For the benefit of Mr. Todd, I am recommending two ridings for Rankin Inlet. Mr. Speaker, this submission was sent last week and I would like the opportunity to thank you, the House, Mr. Hamilton and the staff for their support. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Member's Statement 380-13(4): Nunavut Electoral Boundaries Commission
Item 3: Members' Statements

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The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Thank you, Mr. Picco. Members' statements. Mr. Barnabas.

Member's Statement 381-13(4): Congratulations To Members Of Parliament
Item 3: Members' Statements

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Levi Barnabas High Arctic

(Translation) Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Yesterday was the day of voting for Canadians. My colleagues in Nunavut would like to express their congratulations to Prime Minister Chretien, also Ethel Blondin-Andrew and Nancy Karetak-Lindell, who were elected on behalf of the Liberal Party. I stand today to congratulate those voters. (Translation ends)

Member's Statement 381-13(4): Congratulations To Members Of Parliament
Item 3: Members' Statements

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The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Thank you. Members' statements. Mr. Enuaraq.

Member's Statement 382-13(4): Long Distance Competition
Item 3: Members' Statements

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Tommy Enuaraq Baffin Central

Thank you, Mr. Speaker, the CRTC recently ruled that NorthwesTel must develop a plan to allow other long distance carriers to the come to the north. Unlike most places in Canada, we only have one phone company in the north and that is NorthwesTel. This should be good news. People in the north are often separated from family and friends by long distances. We cannot drive to the next town. Unfortunately, it is very expensive to use long distance telephone calls to keep in touch. As an MLA, I am very aware of this. I use the phone a lot to talk to my communities and my bills are very high.

I hope this decision by the CRTC will help northerners reduce long distance phone rates. Some other companies may want to come north to compete with NorthwesTel. Even if they do not, there will always be the possibility of competition. This will ensure that NorthwesTel is always trying to provide the best service at the lowest price. Mr. Speaker, we will have to wait and see how the decision will affect local telephone costs. However, for those of us who use long distance calling a lot or who would like to, this is good news. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Member's Statement 382-13(4): Long Distance Competition
Item 3: Members' Statements

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The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Thank you, Mr. Enuaraq. Members' statements. Mrs. Groenewegen.

Member's Statement 383-13(4): Special Education Funding Reductions
Item 3: Members' Statements

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Jane Groenewegen

Jane Groenewegen Hay River

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. While I was in Hay River, I had the opportunity to attend a meeting with about 35 teachers. As their representative, I would like to convey a message to this government on behalf of our teachers. The challenges facing our educators are ever increasing. As we, a government, attempt to hold the line on deficit financing of our programs and services, our school populations are growing, our student teacher ratios are rising and this is further complicated by our high rate of northern children with special education needs. This is causing a great deal of stress for professional educators who, in spite of this, remain committed to their students not only in their classroom studies but also in the many extra curricular activities to which our teachers donate countless hours which forms an important part of our children's education.

On top of these challenges the teachers, as I am sure everyone is aware, are not pleased with the manner in which reductions were made in the remuneration they receive for their work. They understand the fiscal realities facing our government but have ideas to contribute on how reductions in government expenditures could have been accomplished while upholding a strong commitment to education as a highest priority of this government. Money spent on education and early intervention in the learning needs of challenged children will save money in the future, which we will ultimately have to spend on social programs, incarceration, income support, adult education and so on.

In view of these stresses and challenges facing our teachers, I want to reassure the teachers in my community that I am open to any suggestions they may have on how we, as a government, can provide greater support to them on where they think this government could implement cost-saving measures in other areas of expenditure. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Member's Statement 383-13(4): Special Education Funding Reductions
Item 3: Members' Statements

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The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Thank you, Mrs. Groenewegen. Members' statements. Mr. Erasmus.

Member's Statement 384-13(4): Legal Training
Item 3: Members' Statements

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Roy Erasmus Yellowknife North

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I rise today to speak about legal training. Mr. Speaker, today our jails are full and in those jails there is abuse and things happening that we are not able to control. This is a weakness of our current legal system. At the same time, the GNWT is promoting community justice which empowers communities. It recognizes traditional methods of justice of the aboriginal people. However, community justice by itself is not an answer. Those who end up in the legal system must still interface between the courts and community justice. What we need are trained northerners who can help this system. We now have dedicated individuals who are trying to work in this system, we have court workers, we have JPs and we have other court officers but they have limited formal legal training.

It is not fair to them or to the people that they are working with. We need northerners with real legal training, the type of training that is now going to happen in Nunavut which is a result of the $40 million that they are receiving to implement Nunavut. We need something similar in the west. I am proposing that we start a certificate and a diploma program at Aurora College, which would build on the success of other programs. By this I am talking about a one year academic preparation to help those people who have been out of school for awhile to prepare them for school. Also, the program could be transferable to a university so that people could go to law school once they have finished or after they work for awhile.

The result of this, we would have court workers who could have a minimum of one year academic legal training and communities with legally trained people to promote and to propel community justice. We could also have JPs with actual legal training that extends beyond workshops and that type of thing. We would also have northern born lawyers and northern born judges as the end result. That is one of my goals for this Assembly, to work towards controlling our own destiny. But we need to find partnerships to create this program. To that end, I have spoken to the Minister of Justice and he has agreed to look into it. Later this month I will be attending an aboriginal justice conference in Inuvik, at which time I will be promoting this concept. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

-- Applause

Member's Statement 384-13(4): Legal Training
Item 3: Members' Statements

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The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Thank you, Mr. Erasmus. Members' statements. Mr. O'Brien.

Member's Statement 385-13(4): Congratulations To Members Of Parliament
Item 3: Members' Statements

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Kevin O'Brien Kivallivik

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I would also like to congratulate Ethel on her election last night. I would especially like to congratulate a lady from my home town, Nancy Karetak Lindell on her successful election. We are all very proud of her. I am sure that she will do very well. Thank you.

-- Applause

Member's Statement 385-13(4): Congratulations To Members Of Parliament
Item 3: Members' Statements

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The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Thank you. Members' statements. Mr. Antoine.

Member's Statement 386-13(4): Workload Facing New Members Of Parliament
Item 3: Members' Statements

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Jim Antoine Nahendeh

Mahsi, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker (Translation) I will be speaking in my language today. There was a Canada wide election yesterday. Ethel Blondin-Andrew was elected for the western Arctic and I am thankful for that. Ethel is from Tulita. She understands the language of the Dene people. She has been in Parliament for quite a few years so she knows how to represent the people from the western Arctic.

There are a lot of difficult things that are in store for us. We will be working on self-government. There are the land claims that still have to be dealt with and also self-government. There are still a lot of these important issues that we have to work on. The election is over. We have somebody in place that we have elected. If we start working together on the right track right from the beginning, we would benefit a lot from it. In 1979 I was elected Chief. What people had said at the time was that there should be some people to represent the native people in the Legislative Assembly and also in Parliament. Today, it seems that their wishes have come true. I would like to say how thankful I am and I would like to congratulate Ethel on her election yesterday. Thank you. (Translation ends)

-- Applause

Member's Statement 386-13(4): Workload Facing New Members Of Parliament
Item 3: Members' Statements

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The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Thank you, Mr. Antoine. Members' statements. Item 4, returns to oral questions. Mr. Ng.

Item 4: Returns To Oral Questions
Item 4: Returns To Oral Questions

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Kelvin Ng Kitikmeot

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I have a return to oral question asked by Mrs. Groenewegen on January 30, 1997, on the repatriation of northerners from southern institutions.

Return To Oral Question 170-13(4): Repatriation Of Northerners From Southern Institutions
Item 4: Returns To Oral Questions

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Kelvin Ng Kitikmeot

Repatriation of Northerners from Southern Institutions

The Department has had a number of successes through repatriation, in the areas of both health and social services.

One specific initiative includes the introduction of a dialysis treatment program at Stanton Regional Hospital. There were five patients repatriated from southern facilities in 1996/97 who now receive treatment in Yellowknife.

Other repatriation successes include the return of eight mentally and physically challenged adults, not only to live in northern group homes, but to be introduced to Independent Assisted Living arrangements. Six clients have been successfully placed. However, two have had to return to their former southern placement, as northern caregivers were unable to respond and cope with their higher needs.

There are currently 38 mentally and physically challenged adults in southern institutions and community placements in the provinces of Alberta, Saskatchewan, Manitoba, Ontario and Quebec.

Under Child Welfare, there were a total of nine children repatriated through a continuum of care. Initial case planning for short and long term clients has repatriation of all clients in southern facilities as the desired result. It should also be noted that children initially sent south for treatment may eventually be repatriated as adults.

There are no specific developments in the Child Welfare Program. However, the department is evaluating northern facilities to identify further repatriation opportunities. As of March 31, 1997, 28 children were in southern facilities.

The north will have to develop resources to deal with the category of individuals with higher needs before repatriation can proceed further. Northern staff must be trained to deal with these people, facilities will have to be renovated to higher security levels and community based services and supports will need to be developed. As a beginning, the department has developed a draft paper entitled Development of Northern Resources for Special Needs, dated April 17, 1998, in which is outlined a process to develop northern resources in this important area. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Return To Oral Question 170-13(4): Repatriation Of Northerners From Southern Institutions
Item 4: Returns To Oral Questions

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The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Thank you. Returns to oral questions. Item 5, recognition of visitors in the gallery. Mr. Morin.

Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery
Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

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Don Morin Tu Nedhe

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. It gives me great honour and pleasure today to recognize our MP for the Western Arctic who was re-elected last night, Ethel Blondin-Andrew and her husband, Leon.

-- Applause

Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery
Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

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The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Welcome to the Assembly. Recognition of visitors in the gallery. Mr. Rabesca.

Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery
Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

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James Rabesca North Slave

Today, Mr. Speaker, I would like to welcome Grade 7, 8 and 9 classes as well as their teachers, supervisors and bus drivers from Chief Jimmy Bruneau School. They have come to Yellowknife to tour this building as well as interesting sites in Yellowknife. It is always a pleasure to have younger constituents visit this fabulous facility to get an idea as to how this government works. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

-- Applause

Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery
Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

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The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Welcome to the Assembly. Recognition of visitors in the gallery. Mr. Erasmus.

Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery
Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

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Roy Erasmus Yellowknife North

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I would like to recognize the Yellowknives Dene First Nation translating students. Their instructor is Mary Rose Sundberg and their students are Stella Johnson, Lena Drygeese, Berna Martin, Julia Lynn, Celine Charlo, Adeline Crapeau and Doreen Liske, who is not here and also Mary Pepper, an instructor who is not here. Thank you.

-- Applause

Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery
Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

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The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Thank you. Recognition of visitors in the gallery. Mr. Antoine.

Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery
Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

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Jim Antoine Nahendeh

Mahsi, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, (Translation) today, Nick Sibbeston is sitting in the Gallery. He used to be an MLA and also a government leader. I would like to welcome him to the Assembly. (Translation ends)

-- Applause

Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery
Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Page 1280

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Welcome to the Assembly. Recognition of visitors in the gallery. I would like to also recognize some students from School Draw, open custody, and their teacher, Jean Robertson and supervisor, Cathy Shick. The students

are from all over the Northwest Territories. Welcome to the Assembly.

-- Applause

Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery
Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Page 1281

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Recognition of visitors in the gallery. Mr. Henry.

Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery
Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Page 1281

Seamus Henry Yellowknife South

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I would like to recognize Lyla Fraser. Her father is Pete Fraser, a Member of this Legislative Assembly in years gone by. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

-- Applause

Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery
Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Page 1281

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Welcome to the Assembly. Recognition of visitors in the gallery. Mr. Miltenberger.

Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery
Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Page 1281

Michael Miltenberger

Michael Miltenberger Thebacha

I would like to recognize Mr. David Sangris from Fort Smith also by way of Nahendeh. He should be in the gallery. He was earlier on. Thank you very much.

-- Applause

Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery
Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Page 1281

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Thank you. Recognition of visitors in the gallery. Mr. Kakfwi.

Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery
Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Page 1281

Stephen Kakfwi

Stephen Kakfwi Sahtu

Mr. Speaker, just to make sure that we are not excluding anyone, I would like to recognize Clair Barnabe formerly of Norman Wells.

-- Applause

Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery
Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Page 1281

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Welcome to the Assembly. Recognition of visitors in the gallery. Mr. Krutko.

Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery
Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Page 1281

David Krutko

David Krutko Mackenzie Delta

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I would like to recognize all those people who have not been recognized. Thank you.

-- Laughter/Applause

Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery
Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Page 1281

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Thank you. Welcome to the Assembly. Recognition of visitors in the gallery. Item 6, oral questions. Mr. Enuaraq.

Question 524-13(4): Dew Line Site Clean-up
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1281

Tommy Enuaraq Baffin Central

(Translation) Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I will be speaking in Inuktitut. Mr. Speaker, in Broughton Island, there is a DEW line that needs to be cleaned up. The buildings on the DEW line site need to be cleaned. My question is directed to the Minister of Resources, Wildlife and Economic Development. I would like to get an update as to what has been done in that area to clean up the DEW line site. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Question 524-13(4): Dew Line Site Clean-up
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1281

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

The Minister responsible for Resources, Wildlife and Economic Development. Mr. Kakfwi.

Return To Question 524-13(4): Dew Line Site Clean-up
Question 524-13(4): Dew Line Site Clean-up
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1281

Stephen Kakfwi

Stephen Kakfwi Sahtu

(Translation unavailable) Mahsi.

Return To Question 524-13(4): Dew Line Site Clean-up
Question 524-13(4): Dew Line Site Clean-up
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1281

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Thank you, Mr. Kakfwi. I would like to ask since we do not have a North Slavey interpretation that you respond in English too.

Return To Question 524-13(4): Dew Line Site Clean-up
Question 524-13(4): Dew Line Site Clean-up
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1281

Stephen Kakfwi

Stephen Kakfwi Sahtu

Mr. Speaker, the Department of National Defence has been discussing and has had discussions with the Inuit claimant groups earlier this year about ways to clean up the DEW line sites.

It is my understanding that the Inuit claimant groups have been in discussions with the Department of National Defence and also the Department of Environment on the ways in which these DEW line sites could be cleaned up. The last specific suggestion that was made was that the Department of National Defence was requesting land use permits and permission to use land fill sites to dispose of materials and buildings from these DEW line sites. Materials and buildings that apparently contain high levels of PCBs and because of the recent guidelines adopted by the Department of Environment, the levels of PCBs contained in the materials and buildings at these sites are of a level considered far too high and do not meet the minimum level required in order to qualify for being disposed of in land fill sites. At this time it is unclear what is going to be done with these DEW line sites. Thank you.

Return To Question 524-13(4): Dew Line Site Clean-up
Question 524-13(4): Dew Line Site Clean-up
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1281

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Thank you. Oral questions. Supplementary, Mr. Enuaraq.

Supplementary To Question 524-13(4): Dew Line Site Clean-up
Question 524-13(4): Dew Line Site Clean-up
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1281

Tommy Enuaraq Baffin Central

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I would like to thank the honourable Minister for answering me in English. We do have a slight difference in languages, but he does have the right to speak his own language. Once again, thank you. My supplementary question to the honourable Minister is, can the Minister keep me updated and also the residents of Broughton Island about the DEW line site that was closed a few years ago in Broughton? Thank you.

Supplementary To Question 524-13(4): Dew Line Site Clean-up
Question 524-13(4): Dew Line Site Clean-up
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1281

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

I will ask the Member for Baffin Central if he might be able to rephrase his question so that it is not a new question. Mr. Enuaraq.

Supplementary To Question 524-13(4): Dew Line Site Clean-up
Question 524-13(4): Dew Line Site Clean-up
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1281

Tommy Enuaraq Baffin Central

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I will rephrase my question to the honourable Minister. Can the Minister keep me updated in the future about the activities that will be happening in Broughton Island? Thank you.

Supplementary To Question 524-13(4): Dew Line Site Clean-up
Question 524-13(4): Dew Line Site Clean-up
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1281

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Mr. Kakfwi.

Further Return To Question 524-13(4): Dew Line Site Clean-up
Question 524-13(4): Dew Line Site Clean-up
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1282

Stephen Kakfwi

Stephen Kakfwi Sahtu

Mahsi. (Translation unavailable) Mahsi.

Further Return To Question 524-13(4): Dew Line Site Clean-up
Question 524-13(4): Dew Line Site Clean-up
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1282

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Thank you, Mr. Kakfwi. Oral questions. Mr. Miltenberger.

Point of Privilege

Further Return To Question 524-13(4): Dew Line Site Clean-up
Question 524-13(4): Dew Line Site Clean-up
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1282

Michael Miltenberger

Michael Miltenberger Thebacha

Mr. Speaker, point of privilege. I am having a hard time following the debate and the questions and answers as I am unfortunately unilingual and can speak barely passable English. I cannot fulfil my obligation as an MLA if I cannot understand what is being said in the confines of the House. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Further Return To Question 524-13(4): Dew Line Site Clean-up
Question 524-13(4): Dew Line Site Clean-up
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1282

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Thank you, Mr. Miltenberger. On your point of privilege, all Members are entitled to hear a response in a language that he does understand and is able to listen to what the response is. At the same time, Mr. Kakfwi also has the right to speak in his own language in this Assembly. The problem I have, Members, is this: today, we do have South Slavey, which is Mr. Antoine and my dialect. Mr. Kakfwi has not requested before hand that simultaneous translation be provided today for a North Slavey interpreter. I would like to ask if Mr. Kakfwi is prepared to respond to Mr. Enuaraq's question in English for the benefit of those Members that did not understand. Mr. Kakfwi.

Further Return To Question 524-13(4): Dew Line Site Clean-up
Question 524-13(4): Dew Line Site Clean-up
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1282

Stephen Kakfwi

Stephen Kakfwi Sahtu

Mr. Speaker, to the question. What I said, in Dene, is that if there is activity in regard to the clean up of the DEW line sites near Broughton, if there is activity going on in the Arctic that is in proximity to any of the Members communities or constituencies, I would be pleased to ask my department to provide updates and briefings to each Member respectively. Specifically to the Member's request, I would be happy to try to arrange for a regular briefing for the Member specifically for any activity in regard to the DEW line site that is in proximity to Broughton Island. Thank you.

Further Return To Question 524-13(4): Dew Line Site Clean-up
Question 524-13(4): Dew Line Site Clean-up
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1282

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Oral questions. Again, just to remind the Members if I could request your cooperation in order to maintain some order, if there is a translation requirement for a specific day that the Member wishes to use translation that they remind the Chair about it. Oral questions. Mr. Krutko.

Question 525-13(4): Negotiated Contract Policy
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1282

David Krutko

David Krutko Mackenzie Delta

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. My question is in regards to negotiated contracts and it is directed to Mr. Antoine. There have been several statements made in this House about negotiated contracts in regards to the Chamber of Commerce who makes reference that they do not support it. Negotiated contracts do not really deal with the Chamber of Commerce. It is more in relation to aboriginal organizations who are starting out their own businesses in communities. There has been a lot said and as a Member for the Mackenzie Delta riding, we see a lot of negotiated contracts the benefits that I see coming from it, especially for the aboriginal community where we have a large ratio of unemployment. Looking at the statistics that the aboriginal communities seems to be the ones hit the hardest when you look at education statistics, health statistics and employment statistics.

I would like to ask how soon can the Minister, in relation to his colleagues, come down with the policy so that the Members here could feel comfortable in their minds and also that the policy be put into force so that people that presently depend on this policy will be able to continue, knowing that it will not end because of a few individuals making statements in this House? Thank you.

Question 525-13(4): Negotiated Contract Policy
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1282

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Thank you. I know the question is directed to Mr. Antoine, but I believe this is the responsibility of the Deputy Premier, Mr. Arlooktoo, or to the Premier. Do you wish to redirect to the Premier? Mr. Morin.

Question 525-13(4): Negotiated Contract Policy
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1282

Don Morin Tu Nedhe

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I could not quite hear the full question. If I could have the Member repeat it please. Thank you.

Question 525-13(4): Negotiated Contract Policy
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1282

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Thank you. Your first question, Mr. Krutko.

Question 525-13(4): Negotiated Contract Policy
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1282

David Krutko

David Krutko Mackenzie Delta

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. My question was regarding the negotiated contract policy and how soon this government will have it completed and ready for Members of this House so that they can take a look at it and have it available to the public? Thank you.

Question 525-13(4): Negotiated Contract Policy
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1282

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Mr. Morin.

Return To Question 525-13(4): Negotiated Contract Policy
Question 525-13(4): Negotiated Contract Policy
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1282

Don Morin Tu Nedhe

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. We do have staff working on a negotiated contracts policy for this government. It will be going to Cabinet very shortly, then to committee, then to this Legislative Assembly, then to the public in general. That should happen all within the next ten days. Thank you.

Return To Question 525-13(4): Negotiated Contract Policy
Question 525-13(4): Negotiated Contract Policy
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1282

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Oral questions. Supplementary, Mr. Krutko.

Supplementary To Question 525-13(4): Negotiated Contract Policy
Question 525-13(4): Negotiated Contract Policy
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1282

David Krutko

David Krutko Mackenzie Delta

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. It is nice to hear that the policy will be completed and ready in the next couple of weeks and hopefully it will put some people to ease. I would also like to ask the Premier if he can inform the people that will be affected by this policy, especially at this time, so that they are also aware of what is happening with the policy?

Supplementary To Question 525-13(4): Negotiated Contract Policy
Question 525-13(4): Negotiated Contract Policy
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1282

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Mr. Morin.

Further Return To Question 525-13(4): Negotiated Contract Policy
Question 525-13(4): Negotiated Contract Policy
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1282

Don Morin Tu Nedhe

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. In the interest of open government and to make sure our communication lines are open, all metis locals, band councils, hamlet councils and organizations in the Northwest Territories, for example the

NWT Construction Organization, will be informed as well. Thank you.

Further Return To Question 525-13(4): Negotiated Contract Policy
Question 525-13(4): Negotiated Contract Policy
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1283

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Oral questions. Mr. Henry.

Question 526-13(4): Radar Installation In The North
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1283

Seamus Henry Yellowknife South

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. My question today is to the Premier. A couple of weeks back I had the opportunity to learn first hand some of the employment and financial benefits that the 50th Space Wing situated in Colorado Springs bring to the Northwest Territories. It is a direct impact on the NWT economy, as I mentioned, in jobs. We had the construction of the DEW line station in the early 1950s, and then it was replaced by the early warning system. Today, the maintenance of that particular facility employs approximately 200 northerners. Also, the 50th Space Wing, they maintain and control the global positioning satellite systems which aids hunters, trappers, prospectors and surveyors in helping them in many cases to get to safety.

On that visit I became aware of some of the requirements to construct a ground based radar system. It was suggested that it would be best located north of 60. My question to the Premier is, would the Premier tell us about his findings on this particular topic and also if he would support this initiative that could bring some additional jobs to the north in the way of employment and also the location of this particular system and construction in the north? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Question 526-13(4): Radar Installation In The North
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1283

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Mr. Premier.

Question 526-13(4): Radar Installation In The North
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1283

Don Morin Tu Nedhe

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, a large meteor shower will bombard the earth in the very near future.

-- Laughter

The specific cloud is called a leonit meteor storm. It is forecasted to arrive April 1, 1999. No, it is forecasted to arrive in 1999, Mr. Speaker. When it does, the incidence of meteors will increase ten thousand fold. The shower will particularly threaten all man made objects in orbit around the earth today. In order to take evasive action with satellites such as turning the antennas to present the smallest cross sections or change in orbit, the operators need to know more about the shower. They need to be able to predict the storms as accurately as possible. The world leading experts in this field are Canadian scientists. They operate from a number of universities. In order for them to better gather data to support their work they need to have a radar deployed, ideally north of 68 degrees, to be able to track the leonit storm continuously.

The radar is a BHF radar. The data it would gather would help with the predictive models for meteor showers. There is an urgency, Mr. Speaker, in this requirement. Ideally, the radar should be purchased and used in England in 1997 and set up north of the 68 degrees in 1998-99. The SWR 503 by Rathion Canada is ideally suited to the task. The radar cost is in the vicinity of $2 million. The total cost of the project is estimated at $5.5 million. Mr. Speaker, a fraction of this would be spent in the Northwest Territories. A number of NWT sites, such as Inuvik, are well suited to this project. And, Mr. Speaker, many times this government has said that we will facilitate and work to attract investment in the Northwest Territories, so it goes without saying that very shortly I will be writing a letter in support of this project to try to get as much benefit to the Northwest Territories as possible. Thank you.

-- Applause

Question 526-13(4): Radar Installation In The North
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1283

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Thank you. Oral questions. Mr. Picco.

Question 527-13(4): Policy On Negotiated Contracts
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1283

Edward Picco Iqaluit

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, it was very good following the debate just now between Mr. Henry and Mr. Morin, to see that Mr. Morin is on top of things and progressing. It is too bad the government has not been progressing that way when it comes to the negotiated and sole sourced contracts, especially when now we have just learned that there is a policy being written and is going to be submitted to this government for the past ten days. So my question to the Premier is what policy has this government been following for the last year and a half if we are just writing a policy now? Maybe some clarification? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Question 527-13(4): Policy On Negotiated Contracts
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1283

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Mr. Morin.

Return To Question 527-13(4): Policy On Negotiated Contracts
Question 527-13(4): Policy On Negotiated Contracts
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1283

Don Morin Tu Nedhe

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. It is the same old question again. I am getting used to answering it. Like I have said before, the Transportation Department does not have a policy for negotiated contracts, Cabinet does follow a directive on negotiated contracts and that is what we have done for the past many, many years. Now there will be one clear policy for all government departments to follow. Thank you.

Return To Question 527-13(4): Policy On Negotiated Contracts
Question 527-13(4): Policy On Negotiated Contracts
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1283

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Oral questions. Supplementary, Mr. Picco.

Supplementary To Question 527-13(4): Policy On Negotiated Contracts
Question 527-13(4): Policy On Negotiated Contracts
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1283

Edward Picco Iqaluit

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, my supplementary question to the Premier then is if we had all these different policies within the different government departments, from the various Hansards and answers across the floor, I understand from the Premier that everything was working fine. I wonder why now has the Premier decided to have just one policy? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Supplementary To Question 527-13(4): Policy On Negotiated Contracts
Question 527-13(4): Policy On Negotiated Contracts
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1283

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Mr. Morin.

Further Return To Question 527-13(4): Policy On Negotiated Contracts
Question 527-13(4): Policy On Negotiated Contracts
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1283

Don Morin Tu Nedhe

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. The Member has requested it.

Further Return To Question 527-13(4): Policy On Negotiated Contracts
Question 527-13(4): Policy On Negotiated Contracts
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1284

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Thank you. Oral questions. Supplementary, Mr. Picco.

Supplementary To Question 527-13(4): Policy On Negotiated Contracts
Question 527-13(4): Policy On Negotiated Contracts
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1284

Edward Picco Iqaluit

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I did request, I believe Mr. Ootes and myself about 15 months ago, did request this policy. If this is in actuality going ahead, I will await it. And I would like to follow up with the sole sourced which is in the same vein. There is no policy for sole sourced contracts. I wonder what is happening with the sole sourced contract policy?

Supplementary To Question 527-13(4): Policy On Negotiated Contracts
Question 527-13(4): Policy On Negotiated Contracts
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1284

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Thank you. I do not know if there is any difference between sole sourced and negotiated contracts. It is still non competitive contracts. Mr. Morin.

Further Return To Question 527-13(4): Policy On Negotiated Contracts
Question 527-13(4): Policy On Negotiated Contracts
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1284

Don Morin Tu Nedhe

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Under sole sourced contracts, both follow the contract regulations of this government. It is fairly straightforward and we will continue to follow the contract regulations of this government. Thank you.

Further Return To Question 527-13(4): Policy On Negotiated Contracts
Question 527-13(4): Policy On Negotiated Contracts
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1284

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Oral questions. Final supplementary, Mr. Picco.

Supplementary To Question 527-13(4): Policy On Negotiated Contracts
Question 527-13(4): Policy On Negotiated Contracts
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1284

Edward Picco Iqaluit

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I just recently had a situation in my riding where that policy seems to be circumvented. I wonder if the Minister could tell me and the people of the Northwest Territories, what happens when that policy is circumvented? What does he have in place to discipline the people who circumvent that sole sourced policy which is not a policy? Thank you.

Supplementary To Question 527-13(4): Policy On Negotiated Contracts
Question 527-13(4): Policy On Negotiated Contracts
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1284

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Mr. Morin.

Further Return To Question 527-13(4): Policy On Negotiated Contracts
Question 527-13(4): Policy On Negotiated Contracts
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1284

Don Morin Tu Nedhe

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I would be pleased to address the issue the Member raises if he would be specific and let me know what he is talking about? What specific contract he is referring to? I would then be pleased to address it. Thank you.

Further Return To Question 527-13(4): Policy On Negotiated Contracts
Question 527-13(4): Policy On Negotiated Contracts
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1284

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Thank you. Oral questions, Mr. O'Brien. Mr. Picco, your point of order.

Further Return To Question 527-13(4): Policy On Negotiated Contracts
Question 527-13(4): Policy On Negotiated Contracts
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1284

Edward Picco Iqaluit

Mr. Speaker, my question and I think the Hansard will back me up on this, I asked what is the penalty when that sole sourced policy is being circumvented. That was my question and he came back and asked me, well give me the incident. I am asking what are the penalties in place for any contract. He did not answer my question so I would like an answer to my question.

Further Return To Question 527-13(4): Policy On Negotiated Contracts
Question 527-13(4): Policy On Negotiated Contracts
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1284

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

That is not a point of order. What was your point of order?

-- Laughter

Further Return To Question 527-13(4): Policy On Negotiated Contracts
Question 527-13(4): Policy On Negotiated Contracts
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1284

Edward Picco Iqaluit

My point, Mr. Speaker was that the Minister did not answer my question. He came back with a reply that did not answer my question. I asked a specific question. I would like a specific answer.

Further Return To Question 527-13(4): Policy On Negotiated Contracts
Question 527-13(4): Policy On Negotiated Contracts
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1284

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Thank you. Mr. Picco, under the rules when answering a question a Minister may answer it, take it as notice or decline to answer by saying nothing, so just to remind the Members those are the rules. If you look at it, you will be clear. Oral questions, Mr. O'Brien.

Question 528-13(4): Block Funding For Health Programs
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1284

Kevin O'Brien Kivallivik

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. My question is for the Minister responsible for Health and Social Services. Can the Minister advise this House whether or not there are any hamlets or communities that have been provided block funding in order to take over medical facilities and programs? Thank you.

Question 528-13(4): Block Funding For Health Programs
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1284

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

The Minister of Health and Social Services, Mr. Ng.

Return To Question 528-13(4): Block Funding For Health Programs
Question 528-13(4): Block Funding For Health Programs
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1284

Kelvin Ng Kitikmeot

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I believe as it stands now the Hay River Hospital has an operating agreement with the department and that is the only municipality in that situation, Mr. Speaker. Thank you.

Return To Question 528-13(4): Block Funding For Health Programs
Question 528-13(4): Block Funding For Health Programs
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1284

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Thank you. Oral questions. Supplementary, Mr. O'Brien.

Supplementary To Question 528-13(4): Block Funding For Health Programs
Question 528-13(4): Block Funding For Health Programs
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1284

Kevin O'Brien Kivallivik

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I believe there are a number of other communities that have been afforded this opportunity. Mr. Speaker, early this week a request was put to the Minister on behalf of the two communities that I represent asking that they be given consideration for block funding to take over partial medical services or full medical services in my riding. The Minister indicated that he would not be supportive of this request. The Minister at the time did not indicate why he would not be supportive and in view that there are other communities that have been given this block funding which we would consider community empowerment, why is the Minister refusing this community? Thank you.

Supplementary To Question 528-13(4): Block Funding For Health Programs
Question 528-13(4): Block Funding For Health Programs
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1284

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Mr. Ng.

Further Return To Question 528-13(4): Block Funding For Health Programs
Question 528-13(4): Block Funding For Health Programs
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1285

Kelvin Ng Kitikmeot

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, first of all in respect of the Hay River agreement, the Hay River Hospital Board had a board in place and was administering the delivery of health services at the time that the contractual agreement was entered into and I do believe that in response to the honourable Member's question about why I would not consider it for his communities of Arviat and Baker Lake, I said at the time and I will repeat, that there are certain economies of scale and doing things on a regional basis, particularly when you are dealing with issues as complex as health and social services issues where you have some regional support mechanisms that are required, that it is not cost effective and efficient to segregate the funding on a regional basis and to dish it out for some communities that may want it and others that may not, Mr. Speaker. Thank you.

Further Return To Question 528-13(4): Block Funding For Health Programs
Question 528-13(4): Block Funding For Health Programs
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1285

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Oral questions. Supplementary, Mr. O'Brien.

Supplementary To Question 528-13(4): Block Funding For Health Programs
Question 528-13(4): Block Funding For Health Programs
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1285

Kevin O'Brien Kivallivik

Thank you, Mr. Speaker, just a point of clarification. I just want to make it perfectly clear that the Minister is stating that there is only one case where medical facilities or services have been block funded in the GNWT.

Supplementary To Question 528-13(4): Block Funding For Health Programs
Question 528-13(4): Block Funding For Health Programs
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1285

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Mr. Ng.

Further Return To Question 528-13(4): Block Funding For Health Programs
Question 528-13(4): Block Funding For Health Programs
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1285

Kelvin Ng Kitikmeot

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, first of all I want to say that I did not say that the community was block funded. I said there was a contractual arrangement with the town of Hay River for provision of some of the health care services in that community, Mr. Speaker. Thank you.

Further Return To Question 528-13(4): Block Funding For Health Programs
Question 528-13(4): Block Funding For Health Programs
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1285

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Oral questions. Final supplementary, Mr. O'Brien.

Supplementary To Question 528-13(4): Block Funding For Health Programs
Question 528-13(4): Block Funding For Health Programs
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1285

Kevin O'Brien Kivallivik

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, the Minister talks of economies of scale and so on and so forth in reference to allowing the communities to take on these additional responsibilities. Given the fact that my two communities of Arviat and Baker Lake are two of the larger communities in the Keewatin with over 3,000 people, would the Minister not revisit this and give this further consideration to see if it is possible to allow either partial or full block funding for medical services in my riding? Thank you.

Supplementary To Question 528-13(4): Block Funding For Health Programs
Question 528-13(4): Block Funding For Health Programs
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1285

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Mr. Ng.

Further Return To Question 528-13(4): Block Funding For Health Programs
Question 528-13(4): Block Funding For Health Programs
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1285

Kelvin Ng Kitikmeot

(Microphone off)

Further Return To Question 528-13(4): Block Funding For Health Programs
Question 528-13(4): Block Funding For Health Programs
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1285

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Your response was not on the record. Could you respond again as soon as your light goes on.

Further Return To Question 528-13(4): Block Funding For Health Programs
Question 528-13(4): Block Funding For Health Programs
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1285

Kelvin Ng Kitikmeot

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Once again I say no, Mr. Speaker. Thank you.

Further Return To Question 528-13(4): Block Funding For Health Programs
Question 528-13(4): Block Funding For Health Programs
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1285

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Thank you. Oral questions. Mr. Ootes.

Question 529-13(4): Inventory Of Federal Civil Servants
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1285

Jake Ootes

Jake Ootes Yellowknife Centre

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. My question is for the Premier and it is regarding my statement this morning about the fact that there are potentially federal civil servants located in the south that perhaps more appropriately should be located here in the north. I was thinking of several various departments, more than just the Department of Indian and Northern Affairs. I am wondering if the Premier could tell me if the territorial government may have on hand or has ever had an indication of an inventory of federal positions that are located in the south that could potentially be transferred to the territories. Thank you.

Question 529-13(4): Inventory Of Federal Civil Servants
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1285

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Mr. Premier.

Return To Question 529-13(4): Inventory Of Federal Civil Servants
Question 529-13(4): Inventory Of Federal Civil Servants
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1285

Don Morin Tu Nedhe

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. There has been a bit of work done on this whole issue already. Myself, I have taken the initiative to talk to Minister Irwin, the Minister of Indian Affairs and Northern Development when he came to the Northwest Territories recently. My understanding is that there are approximately over 100 PYs. That is just within mineral and oil and gas development for the north alone. We can undertake to look at the other ones as well. But at this time I would like to stay focused and try to get this part transferred to the north immediately with the help of our MP. Thanks.

Return To Question 529-13(4): Inventory Of Federal Civil Servants
Question 529-13(4): Inventory Of Federal Civil Servants
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1285

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Oral questions. Supplementary. Mr. Ootes.

Supplementary To Question 529-13(4): Inventory Of Federal Civil Servants
Question 529-13(4): Inventory Of Federal Civil Servants
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1285

Jake Ootes

Jake Ootes Yellowknife Centre

Thank you, Mr. Premier. Yes, I quite appreciate that the Premier feels that we should focus and rightly so. It is very important to ensure that we address specific areas, but I do feel that there is potential for more. Certainly, as I said earlier, there is a golden opportunity here for us to be able to identify those at this particular time, especially with the new Minister coming on stream. He or she potentially will be in position within a month. I wonder if the Premier could tell me if we could pursue the idea of an inventory of positions with various departments. Thank you.

Supplementary To Question 529-13(4): Inventory Of Federal Civil Servants
Question 529-13(4): Inventory Of Federal Civil Servants
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1285

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Mr. Morin.

Further Return To Question 529-13(4): Inventory Of Federal Civil Servants
Question 529-13(4): Inventory Of Federal Civil Servants
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1285

Don Morin Tu Nedhe

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Yes, we can find out what positions are in the south that affect decision-making in the Northwest Territories and what positions can possibly be moved north. We will do that work, but we will also

proceed politically immediately, starting as soon as possible to try to get the political support to move things north. Thank you.

Further Return To Question 529-13(4): Inventory Of Federal Civil Servants
Question 529-13(4): Inventory Of Federal Civil Servants
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1286

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Oral questions. Supplementary. Mr. Ootes.

Supplementary To Question 529-13(4): Inventory Of Federal Civil Servants
Question 529-13(4): Inventory Of Federal Civil Servants
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1286

Jake Ootes

Jake Ootes Yellowknife Centre

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Yes, I think that the political support is very essential and I was pleased that the Premier had the opportunity at the Premiers' Conference to be able to initiate and address this question. I think that is very good for the north. I am wondering how, if the Premier could tell us how that may translate. Can we call on the Premiers when we make a proposal? Can we call on their support to address this to the Prime Minister? Thank you.

Supplementary To Question 529-13(4): Inventory Of Federal Civil Servants
Question 529-13(4): Inventory Of Federal Civil Servants
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1286

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Mr. Morin.

Further Return To Question 529-13(4): Inventory Of Federal Civil Servants
Question 529-13(4): Inventory Of Federal Civil Servants
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1286

Don Morin Tu Nedhe

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. At the Western Premiers' Conference that I just returned from a few days ago, we did get support from the western Premiers on this whole issue. Once we do that at a Western Premiers' Conference than we will pursue it at the Premiers Conference in Canada. All the Premiers will be meeting, I believe it is in August in New Brunswick, and I have the western Premiers' support already on record, so I can pursue it there as well to get the support of all the Premiers across this country to devolve that authority to the Northwest Territories as well as moving PYs as soon as possible. Thank you.

Further Return To Question 529-13(4): Inventory Of Federal Civil Servants
Question 529-13(4): Inventory Of Federal Civil Servants
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1286

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Oral questions. Final supplementary. Mr. Ootes.

Supplementary To Question 529-13(4): Inventory Of Federal Civil Servants
Question 529-13(4): Inventory Of Federal Civil Servants
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1286

Jake Ootes

Jake Ootes Yellowknife Centre

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Yes, I think this can be a really good news story for us all here in the north because as the Premier stated they have identified some 100 positions, perhaps we may be a bit optimistic there but that can be a really good outlook for the north and can replace some of the lost positions that we have had happen. I am wondering if the Premier could tell me, just out of curiosity, when the Premiers' Conference will be, the National Premiers' Conference. Thank you.

Supplementary To Question 529-13(4): Inventory Of Federal Civil Servants
Question 529-13(4): Inventory Of Federal Civil Servants
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1286

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Mr. Morin.

Further Return To Question 529-13(4): Inventory Of Federal Civil Servants
Question 529-13(4): Inventory Of Federal Civil Servants
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1286

Don Morin Tu Nedhe

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I do not have my schedule with me so I cannot give the exact dates. It is, I believe, in the early part of August and it will be in New Brunswick. I do know that it is in August. I would be pleased to share those dates with the Members of the Assembly. Let me assure the Members that we will also be working diligently starting immediately with meeting both our MPs as soon as we can, as well as talking to the Prime Minister either today or tomorrow, as well as talking to the new Minister of Indian Affairs immediately after he or she is appointed into their position. We are going to be aggressively going after this issue so that we can get positions moved to the Northwest Territories. Thank you.

Further Return To Question 529-13(4): Inventory Of Federal Civil Servants
Question 529-13(4): Inventory Of Federal Civil Servants
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1286

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Oral questions. Mrs. Groenewegen.

Question 530-13(4): Responsibility For Recruitment Of Physicians
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1286

Jane Groenewegen

Jane Groenewegen Hay River

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. My question today is for the Minister of Health and Social Services and it has to do with the subject of recruitment of doctors for the north. Hay River as a community has indeed been very fortunate in the past in that we have had a fairly good number of doctors and doctors who have committed to stay in the community for a number of years. However, with the departure of Dr. Culvert last year, we as a community are very concerned about recruiting and retaining physicians in our community. I would like to ask the Minister, who has the responsibility for this task of recruitment at the present time? Is it done by each individual community or the regional health boards? What is the process for the recruitment of positions at this time?

Question 530-13(4): Responsibility For Recruitment Of Physicians
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1286

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

The Minister of Health and Social Services, Mr. Ng.

Return To Question 530-13(4): Responsibility For Recruitment Of Physicians
Question 530-13(4): Responsibility For Recruitment Of Physicians
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1286

Kelvin Ng Kitikmeot

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, currently the regional or local Health and Social Services authorities have the responsibilities for recruitment. Thank you.

Return To Question 530-13(4): Responsibility For Recruitment Of Physicians
Question 530-13(4): Responsibility For Recruitment Of Physicians
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1286

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Oral questions. Supplementary. Mrs. Groenewegen.

Supplementary To Question 530-13(4): Responsibility For Recruitment Of Physicians
Question 530-13(4): Responsibility For Recruitment Of Physicians
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1286

Jane Groenewegen

Jane Groenewegen Hay River

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Further to that, I am just wondering if there are any further incentives or inducements that the department could think of that would assist in getting doctors to consider the north. There is a tremendous amount of competition for Canadian graduates at this point. Many Canadian graduates are actually opting to practice in the US. I am wondering if it is not something that we should be looking at on a territorial basis to come up with standard options for encouraging doctors to consider the north?

Supplementary To Question 530-13(4): Responsibility For Recruitment Of Physicians
Question 530-13(4): Responsibility For Recruitment Of Physicians
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1286

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Mr. Ng.

Further Return To Question 530-13(4): Responsibility For Recruitment Of Physicians
Question 530-13(4): Responsibility For Recruitment Of Physicians
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1287

Kelvin Ng Kitikmeot

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, we are aware of the issue of recruitment and retention of physicians and other health care professionals. I cannot say that although it is a board responsibility now that the department has an active role in trying to support the boards in putting together a strategy to try to deal with this issue. As I indicated in the question last week, from the honourable Member, Mr. Ootes, that the NWT Health Care Association has taken a more active, aggressive role in trying to formulate a committee with our involvement in trying to bring along some of the recruitment/retention issues and develop a strategy for physician recruitment and retention, Mr. Speaker. Thank you.

Further Return To Question 530-13(4): Responsibility For Recruitment Of Physicians
Question 530-13(4): Responsibility For Recruitment Of Physicians
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1287

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Oral questions. Supplementary. Mrs. Groenewegen.

Supplementary To Question 530-13(4): Responsibility For Recruitment Of Physicians
Question 530-13(4): Responsibility For Recruitment Of Physicians
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1287

Jane Groenewegen

Jane Groenewegen Hay River

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I think that the Minister and everyone would concur that medical travel is a major component of our health care costs here in the Northwest Territories because of the vast distances between communities. If we do not come up with a successful strategy on recruitment, I trust that the Minister would concur with me that our alternatives are going to be extremely costly. Is there a fall back plan or does the department have any options laid out as to what they will do if we are not successful in recruiting doctors for communities as present physicians vacate positions?

Supplementary To Question 530-13(4): Responsibility For Recruitment Of Physicians
Question 530-13(4): Responsibility For Recruitment Of Physicians
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1287

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Mr. Ng.

Further Return To Question 530-13(4): Responsibility For Recruitment Of Physicians
Question 530-13(4): Responsibility For Recruitment Of Physicians
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1287

Kelvin Ng Kitikmeot

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, we do not as of today have a fall back plan. I guess we have to look at it in the overall context of the whole strategic reform that is underway with the Department of Health and Social Services in the delivery of services to our constituents throughout the Northwest Territories. I think that there is also an issue of the human resources out there and the delivery model for service to our constituents. There are several issues that have to be resolved in reaching a satisfactory delivery model that can work for the whole territories both east and west, Mr. Speaker. Thank you.

Further Return To Question 530-13(4): Responsibility For Recruitment Of Physicians
Question 530-13(4): Responsibility For Recruitment Of Physicians
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1287

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Oral questions. Final supplementary. Mrs. Groenewegen.

Supplementary To Question 530-13(4): Responsibility For Recruitment Of Physicians
Question 530-13(4): Responsibility For Recruitment Of Physicians
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1287

Jane Groenewegen

Jane Groenewegen Hay River

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Could the Minister provide assurance that this strategy for recruitment and assistance to Health Boards and communities to recruit doctors would be placed high on the list of priorities on the agenda of his department at this time?

Supplementary To Question 530-13(4): Responsibility For Recruitment Of Physicians
Question 530-13(4): Responsibility For Recruitment Of Physicians
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1287

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Mr. Ng.

Further Return To Question 530-13(4): Responsibility For Recruitment Of Physicians
Question 530-13(4): Responsibility For Recruitment Of Physicians
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1287

Kelvin Ng Kitikmeot

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, it will be one of the priorities along with the recruitment of all professionals to provide the services throughout the territories. I must say that there is a multitude of important issues that we are faced with as we move towards reforming our health and social services system. It would have to be taken in the context of all the priorities and all the changes that we are going to be moving towards in the next couple of years, Mr. Speaker. Thank you.

Further Return To Question 530-13(4): Responsibility For Recruitment Of Physicians
Question 530-13(4): Responsibility For Recruitment Of Physicians
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1287

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Thank you. Oral questions. Mr. Barnabas.

Question 531-13(4): Staffing The Nunavut Government
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1287

Levi Barnabas High Arctic

(Translation) Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Representing Nunavut, in regards to division issues, has the government studied whether there is any need to work more on the three groups that are working on the division issues, also the staffing problems? Thank you, Mr. Speaker. (Translation ends)

Question 531-13(4): Staffing The Nunavut Government
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1287

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Minister of Finance, Mr. Todd.

Return To Question 531-13(4): Staffing The Nunavut Government
Question 531-13(4): Staffing The Nunavut Government
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1287

John Todd Keewatin Central

Yes, thank you, Mr. Speaker. My honourable colleague is correct. When we were doing an indepth cost analysis of the NIC report, Footprints in the Snow 2, it was identified by the bureaucracy that there were some shortcomings with respect to PYs. I believe it was somewhere in the range of about 100 person years that we felt was perhaps missing in the overall framework for the new government that should unfold on April 1, 1999. Thank you.

Return To Question 531-13(4): Staffing The Nunavut Government
Question 531-13(4): Staffing The Nunavut Government
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1287

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Oral questions. Supplementary. Mr. Barnabas.

Supplementary To Question 531-13(4): Staffing The Nunavut Government
Question 531-13(4): Staffing The Nunavut Government
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1287

Levi Barnabas High Arctic

(Translation) Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Last part of my question, how are the staffing problems going to be resolved? Thank you, Mr. Speaker. (Translation ends)

Supplementary To Question 531-13(4): Staffing The Nunavut Government
Question 531-13(4): Staffing The Nunavut Government
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1287

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Mr. Todd.

Further Return To Question 531-13(4): Staffing The Nunavut Government
Question 531-13(4): Staffing The Nunavut Government
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1287

John Todd Keewatin Central

Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker. As you know, we do have a committee made up of all the players. Earlier last week we did an indepth presentation to Caucus as to the costing exercise. As I said, we did identify some shortcomings. I believe, for example, there were no positions for middle income support. That was perhaps an error. It is not a complaint or a criticism, it is just an error. So, we will be

working with the coordinating committees, the western coalition, NTI, et cetera when we finalize this costing exercise. Those short comings that we have identified as a government will be incorporated into that. Hopefully at the end of the day, as I have said on a consistent basis, we can then move forward to our colleagues in Ottawa and see if they are going to pay the bills. Thank you.

Further Return To Question 531-13(4): Staffing The Nunavut Government
Question 531-13(4): Staffing The Nunavut Government
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1288

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Oral questions. Mr. Roland.

Question 532-13(4): Plan For Dealing With The Federal Government
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1288

Floyd Roland

Floyd Roland Inuvik

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, my question at this time will be directed to the Premier. Now we know the results of the election. The Liberal government is back in power. We know our representatives will be in there. I am just wondering if this government and Cabinet has put forward or is looking at a plan that would deal with the initiatives that this government needs to approach the federal government on, especially in times of change? We are looking at lot of changes coming up, especially with division. Is our government and our Cabinet preparing something or going to go forward with a document to the federal government as soon as possible to try and establish the new lines of communications with them? Thank you.

Question 532-13(4): Plan For Dealing With The Federal Government
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1288

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Mr. Premier.

Return To Question 532-13(4): Plan For Dealing With The Federal Government
Question 532-13(4): Plan For Dealing With The Federal Government
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1288

Don Morin Tu Nedhe

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. We are constantly updating our political strategy and we are doing so as we speak because we have just gone through, like the Member said, a federal election. We have to make sure that our interests are there. I have great faith in both newly elected MPs from the Northwest Territories to assist and work with us to make sure that we do make ourselves known and present on the national agenda. We, as Cabinet are also very committed to doing the work to make sure that Ottawa fully understands the issues and the concerns of the people of the Northwest Territories, but also understands the great potential the north has to offer Canada. We do have great potential in the Northwest Territories and we are willing and able to share our resources in the north with southern Canada, but we need the tools to do that. We need those tools as soon as possible so that not only all the residents of the north can benefit, but also southern Canadians can benefit. We plan on going to Ottawa as soon as possible to meet with the new Prime Minister as well as the new Minister of Indian Affairs, the Minister of Finance and any other Minister that we feel is important to meet with at this time so that we can present our case and show that we in the Northwest Territories have a lot to offer Canadians and Canada as a country. Thank you.

Return To Question 532-13(4): Plan For Dealing With The Federal Government
Question 532-13(4): Plan For Dealing With The Federal Government
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1288

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Oral question. Supplementary. Mr. Roland.

Supplementary To Question 532-13(4): Plan For Dealing With The Federal Government
Question 532-13(4): Plan For Dealing With The Federal Government
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1288

Floyd Roland

Floyd Roland Inuvik

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I think it is very good that we are continuing to work on updating our strategy. I think that information is also needed to get out to the general public, the people we represent, of the initiatives we are taking with us to the federal government in looking for their support and looking for the funding to move forward in our initiatives. Do you see yourself or the Cabinet coming forward with a strategy and doing some sort of a public campaign to let people know what we are up to? Thank you.

Supplementary To Question 532-13(4): Plan For Dealing With The Federal Government
Question 532-13(4): Plan For Dealing With The Federal Government
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1288

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Mr. Morin.

Further Return To Question 532-13(4): Plan For Dealing With The Federal Government
Question 532-13(4): Plan For Dealing With The Federal Government
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1288

Don Morin Tu Nedhe

Mr. Speaker, we will be meeting fairly shortly as Cabinet and we will be discussing our strategy as well. It will be a very public presentation that we will be making not only to the Prime Minister and the other elected officials in Ottawa, but also to all people in the Northwest Territories as well as Canadian citizens in general. They have to fully understand that these are exciting times in the Northwest Territories. April 1, 1999, we will be creating two new governments. We will be developing two new formulas for two new governments so we have to make sure they fully understand that. We also have great potential, up and down the Mackenzie Valley as well throughout the Great Slave geological area to create jobs for Canadians, and these are jobs Canadians have said they desperately need. Northerners need them as well. You have seen the unemployment statistics. You have seen the environmental scan of where we sit as the Northwest Territories, not only economically, but socially as well. Everybody has already seen what is happening in the Northwest Territories and fully understands, we just have to go out and communicate it now. And we have to communicate it aggressively as well. Thank you.

Further Return To Question 532-13(4): Plan For Dealing With The Federal Government
Question 532-13(4): Plan For Dealing With The Federal Government
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1288

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Thank you. Oral questions. Mr. Picco.

Question 533-13(4): Penalty For Policy Circumvention
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1288

Edward Picco Iqaluit

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Premier. Mr. Speaker, what is the penalty for circumventing the sole sourced policy, as outlined in the Financial Administration Act? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Question 533-13(4): Penalty For Policy Circumvention
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1288

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Thank you, Mr. Picco. Mr. Picco, I must rule your question out of order. That question was asked already today. New question. Mr. Picco.

Question 534-13(4): Contract Policy Sanctions
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1288

Edward Picco Iqaluit

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I will just rephrase the question. My question is for the Premier. Is there a penalty for circumventing the Financial Administration Act? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Question 534-13(4): Contract Policy Sanctions
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1288

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Mr. Premier.

Return To Question 534-13(4): Contract Policy Sanctions
Question 534-13(4): Contract Policy Sanctions
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1289

Don Morin Tu Nedhe

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I will look into that issue for the Member and I will get back to him. I will take the question as notice. Thank you.

Return To Question 534-13(4): Contract Policy Sanctions
Question 534-13(4): Contract Policy Sanctions
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1289

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

That was taken as notice. Oral questions. Mr. Krutko.

Question 535-13(4): Mental Health Funding
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1289

David Krutko

David Krutko Mackenzie Delta

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. My question is to the Minister of Health and Social Services, Mr. Ng, in relation to the cuts that have been taking place in the Inuvik region and are still taking place, especially in relation to the mental health workers. My question is regarding the funding that is still being spent in southern institutions in the neighbourhood of $890,000 which was spent in 1996/97. Yet we do not seem to have the resources for communities for mental health workers in relation to assisting communities to ensure that they have healthy individuals and that they do not have to deal with the high cost of having to send people out and deal with these problems locally. I would like to ask the Minister, will he reinstate the communities that need mental health workers, demand those mental health workers at this time?

Question 535-13(4): Mental Health Funding
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1289

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

The Minister of Health and Social Services, Mr. Ng.

Return To Question 535-13(4): Mental Health Funding
Question 535-13(4): Mental Health Funding
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1289

Kelvin Ng Kitikmeot

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, first of all, it is not for me to reinstate the funding. As I indicated in past answers to this question, the funding from the department did go through the Inuvik Regional Health and Social Services Board. It was a board decision to make some amendments and some changes to some of the programming that they provided to their service area. I have committed to try to find out the rationale for the decision and report back to the Member on that. In that respect, I cannot make that commitment on behalf of the board because we give them the authority to make those types of decisions, Mr. Speaker. Thank you.

Return To Question 535-13(4): Mental Health Funding
Question 535-13(4): Mental Health Funding
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1289

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Oral questions. Mr. Krutko.

Supplementary To Question 535-13(4): Mental Health Funding
Question 535-13(4): Mental Health Funding
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1289

David Krutko

David Krutko Mackenzie Delta

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. In regards to the mental health workers and cuts that have taken place in the Mackenzie Delta, the position of the mental health worker in McPherson was a position that was held by the Tl'oondih Healing Society. A motion, that I passed in this House, asked for support from this government to ensure the availability and also the Tl'oondih Healing Society continue to maintain and operate programs and services in this area. This is just another stab in the back of that organization and its demise of not being able to operate by losing programs that are presently being delivered by that organization. Is that the plot of this government, to bring that organization to its knees?

Supplementary To Question 535-13(4): Mental Health Funding
Question 535-13(4): Mental Health Funding
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1289

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Mr. Ng.

Further Return To Question 535-13(4): Mental Health Funding
Question 535-13(4): Mental Health Funding
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1289

Kelvin Ng Kitikmeot

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, as all Members know, we have aggressively moved dollars out into the regional health and social services boards to give them some flexibility in handling the multitude of programs that we fund under this government to give them the authority to designate their own priorities in delivery of programs. I cannot speak for decisions made at the regional level in how they choose to provide those services, provided that the basic service levels are met. I would have no reason to intercede and try to impose any changes, Mr. Speaker. I think the issue should adequately, should appropriately be addressed to the regional health and social services board, as I have indicated in the past. We are certainly supportive of trying to attempt to assist in getting that information and trying to facilitate any changes that may make things more appropriate, Mr. Speaker. Thank you.

Further Return To Question 535-13(4): Mental Health Funding
Question 535-13(4): Mental Health Funding
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1289

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Thank you. Oral questions. Supplementary, Mr. Krutko.

Supplementary To Question 535-13(4): Mental Health Funding
Question 535-13(4): Mental Health Funding
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1289

David Krutko

David Krutko Mackenzie Delta

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. In regards to a letter that was sent to the Tl'oondih Healing Society from the regional health board, their excuse is that because they were not funded from this government to carry out that program, that is why they are unable to continue to facilitate those organizations or mental health workers in those communities at this time, because they do not have the adequate funding from this government to carry those out. The Minister is saying that it was the decision of the board, but the resources were not forthcoming from this government.

Supplementary To Question 535-13(4): Mental Health Funding
Question 535-13(4): Mental Health Funding
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1289

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Mr. Ng.

Further Return To Question 535-13(4): Mental Health Funding
Question 535-13(4): Mental Health Funding
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1289

Kelvin Ng Kitikmeot

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, as I said in the past, the Department of Health and Social Services did provide intact all the funding that they provided in past years for the Mental Health Worker Program. I cannot speak to the honourable Member's letter that he has because it has not been tabled or has not been shown to me so I will speak to the Member about it after the Session, Mr. Speaker. Thank you.

Further Return To Question 535-13(4): Mental Health Funding
Question 535-13(4): Mental Health Funding
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1289

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Oral questions. Final supplementary, Mr. Krutko.

Supplementary To Question 535-13(4): Mental Health Funding
Question 535-13(4): Mental Health Funding
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1289

David Krutko

David Krutko Mackenzie Delta

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. This is another way that we talk about community empowerment, community wellness and trying to have and maintain healthy communities

so they can be sufficient and not dependent on this government in relation to having people hospitalized or institutionalized because of a related illness, especially in the area of mental health. I think that for us to on the one hand, give them the tools, but on the other hand not give them the resources to carry out those activities, I believe we are making a statement here that, sure, we will give you the program but we will not give you the resources. I would like to ask the Minister again if there is enough demand called for by the communities asking him to reinstate this program, will the Minister intervene to the board to ensure that the communities' wishes are taken care of? Thank you.

Supplementary To Question 535-13(4): Mental Health Funding
Question 535-13(4): Mental Health Funding
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1290

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Mr. Ng.

Further Return To Question 535-13(4): Mental Health Funding
Question 535-13(4): Mental Health Funding
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1290

Kelvin Ng Kitikmeot

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, as I have indicated in the past, because it is an issue for the honourable Member for the communities that he represents, I will now aggressively try to get the information from the Inuvik Regional Health and Social Services Board to find out exactly what the rationale was for the decision in respect to the Mental Health Worker Program that they have terminated, to my understanding. I will commit to the Member that I will, right after today's session, try to get in touch with the Inuvik Health Board and find out what the circumstances are regarding their decision on this program. Thank you.

Further Return To Question 535-13(4): Mental Health Funding
Question 535-13(4): Mental Health Funding
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1290

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Oral questions. Mr. Erasmus.

Question 536-13(4): Government Procurement Benefits
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1290

Roy Erasmus Yellowknife North

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. My question is for the Premier. Looking at the summary of the third quarter contract reports, I see that this government spends almost $20 million on sole sourced contracts for southern suppliers. We have often talked about the benefits of keeping the dollars in the north. I would like to know what we are doing to identify the areas where we use southern suppliers and then to offer support and incentives to northerners to provide these same products and services?

Question 536-13(4): Government Procurement Benefits
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1290

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Mr. Premier.

Return To Question 536-13(4): Government Procurement Benefits
Question 536-13(4): Government Procurement Benefits
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1290

Don Morin Tu Nedhe

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. That is an ongoing process. We encourage buy north and hire north. We encourage our civil service to work within the parameters of this government to ensure that the dollars that this government spends stay in the Northwest Territories. We do that through sole sourced contracts as well as negotiated contracts as well as block funding through communities, training programs and things as such. There is an ongoing process to try to make sure that we stop the slippage of dollars into southern Canada. Thank you.

Return To Question 536-13(4): Government Procurement Benefits
Question 536-13(4): Government Procurement Benefits
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1290

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Oral questions. Supplementary, Mr. Erasmus.

Supplementary To Question 536-13(4): Government Procurement Benefits
Question 536-13(4): Government Procurement Benefits
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1290

Roy Erasmus Yellowknife North

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I know that we do have sole sourced contracts for northerners as well. However, I think that we should be trying to keep these dollars in the north. Are there any specific programs that we have in place so that we can get northerners to provide those same products and services that southerners are now providing through sole sourced contracts? Thank you.

Supplementary To Question 536-13(4): Government Procurement Benefits
Question 536-13(4): Government Procurement Benefits
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1290

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Mr. Morin.

Further Return To Question 536-13(4): Government Procurement Benefits
Question 536-13(4): Government Procurement Benefits
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1290

Don Morin Tu Nedhe

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. There is no specific program in place for any specific sole sourced contract. But we have done many things in the Northwest Territories as the Northwest Territories Government to ensure that we stop leakage to southern Canada. For example, all tanks are now manufactured in the Northwest Territories, and all the sewer tanks are manufactured, water tanks are manufactured in the north. Windows are manufactured in the north. Doors, cabinets are manufactured in the north. Trusses are manufactured in the north. So there are many things that have traditionally come from the south, say five years ago that are now being manufactured in the Northwest Territories. So if there are any sole sourced contracts with southern companies that can be done in the Northwest Territories, I would be pleased to do that and do that as soon as possible because there is no interest to this government to sole source contracts with southern companies if it does not benefit the Northwest Territories and the northern people. Thank you.

Further Return To Question 536-13(4): Government Procurement Benefits
Question 536-13(4): Government Procurement Benefits
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1290

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Supplementary, Mr. Erasmus.

Supplementary To Question 536-13(4): Government Procurement Benefits
Question 536-13(4): Government Procurement Benefits
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1290

Roy Erasmus Yellowknife North

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Is the Premier then committing to identifying those areas where those southern companies are having sole-sourced contracts and to assist northerners to move into those areas so they can provide those goods and services? Thank you.

Supplementary To Question 536-13(4): Government Procurement Benefits
Question 536-13(4): Government Procurement Benefits
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1290

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Mr. Morin.

Further Return To Question 536-13(4): Government Procurement Benefits
Question 536-13(4): Government Procurement Benefits
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1290

Don Morin Tu Nedhe

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. We in the past have always said that we are committed to working with northerners for northern control of northern resources as well as northerners benefiting from the dollars that this government spends. So if there are northerners out there who can come forward and replace the purchasing that we are doing in southern Canada, I would be pleased to work with them to

facilitate that because the dollars that we are spending in the Northwest Territories should be spent in the north and we, as a government, are totally committed to that. Thank you.

Further Return To Question 536-13(4): Government Procurement Benefits
Question 536-13(4): Government Procurement Benefits
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1291

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Oral questions. Final supplementary, Mr. Erasmus.

Supplementary To Question 536-13(4): Government Procurement Benefits
Question 536-13(4): Government Procurement Benefits
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1291

Roy Erasmus Yellowknife North

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Would the Premier be willing to initiate something rather than waiting for northern people to come to the government in this matter?

Supplementary To Question 536-13(4): Government Procurement Benefits
Question 536-13(4): Government Procurement Benefits
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1291

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Mr. Morin.

Further Return To Question 536-13(4): Government Procurement Benefits
Question 536-13(4): Government Procurement Benefits
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1291

Don Morin Tu Nedhe

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. What I will commit to doing is reviewing the contracts that are let, the document the Member is referring to, working with the Member to identify those sole source contracts which he says adds up to $20 million. I was quite surprised by that number because I did not realize it was that high. I am not too sure if it is. I am committed to working with Members of this Legislative Assembly and the general public, the business people, to make sure the dollars we do spend in the Northwest Territories stay in the Northwest Territories. Thank you.

Further Return To Question 536-13(4): Government Procurement Benefits
Question 536-13(4): Government Procurement Benefits
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1291

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Thank you. Oral questions is over. Item 7, written questions. Item 8, returns to written questions. Mr. Clerk.

Item 7: Returns To Written Questions
Item 7: Returns To Written Questions

Page 1291

Clerk Of The House Mr. David Hamilton

Mr. Speaker, return to written question 16-13(4) asked by Mr. Erasmus to the Chairman of the Financial Management Board concerning staff training participation levels.

Return To Written Question No. 16-13(4): Staff Training Participation Levels
Item 7: Returns To Written Questions

Page 1291

Clerk Of The House Mr. David Hamilton

I have provided to all Members today copies of the following documents pertaining to Government of the Northwest Territories staff training participation levels:

1. A breakdown of the total number of aboriginal employees in the GNWT as of December 31, 1996;

2. A summary of the GNWT staff training course enrolments at Aurora College for the academic years (July 1 to June 30) 1991-92 through 1995-96;

3. A summary of the GNWT staff training course enrolments at Nunavut Arctic College for the academic years (July 1 to June 30) 1991-92 through 1995-96.

The Aurora College does not maintain records by ethnicity. The information for Nunavut Arctic College indicates how many of the participants were aboriginal.

The information provided refers only to staff training taken through the Aurora and Nunavut Arctic Colleges. In addition to staff training provided by the Colleges, Government of the Northwest Territories staff frequently take advantage of a variety of private sector training opportunities. Thus, the actual number of GNWT staff who have participated in training opportunities is significantly greater than indicated on the material distributed. I am unable to provide exact numbers as there is no formal government-wide tracking system for such training.

There is no information available to show a breakdown between management aboriginal staff and management non-aboriginal staff who have participated in staff training courses in 1996.

Return To Written Question No. 16-13(4): Staff Training Participation Levels
Item 7: Returns To Written Questions

Page 1291

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Thank you. Item 8, returns to written questions. Item 9, replies to opening address. Item 10, petitions. Mr. Krutko.

Item 10: Petitions
Item 10: Petitions

Page 1291

David Krutko

David Krutko Mackenzie Delta

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I would like to present a petition, Petition 23-13(4), dealing with the matter of funding cuts made by the Government of the Northwest Territories to the Inuvik Regional Health Board. Mr. Speaker, the petition contains 125 signatures from the residents of Fort McPherson. Mr. Speaker, the petition requests the Government of the Northwest Territories deciding not to fund Inuvik Regional Health Board to provide community health worker services in various communities, Fort McPherson. Over the last few years, the Tl'oondih Society has received some funding and also has designated Jennifer Commerce as the Community Health Worker. The funding is not in place for the Tl'oondih Health Society to continue providing a very well worth service. Since the program has begun, there have been no successful suicides in the community and the threat of suicides has declined.

Item 10: Petitions
Item 10: Petitions

Page 1291

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Petitions. Mr. Steen.

Item 10: Petitions
Item 10: Petitions

Page 1291

Vince Steen

Vince Steen Nunakput

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I have a petition here from 45 residents of Holman Island, Petition 24-13(4). The petition states, we the undersigned are concerned with the preservation of our language. We wish to voice our concerns about the changes that are being implemented against our wishes as parents of the children being taught with these changes and against the wishes of the elders. Presently the Kitikmeot Board of Education is using the letters q, r and s in our written autography when they are not part of our local dialect for much of the Kitikmeot region. We want this implementation stopped immediately. We want our language preserved the way our elders know it and we want our dialect respected in its' distinctness.

-- Applause

Item 10: Petitions
Item 10: Petitions

Page 1292

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Thank you. Petitions, Mr. Ng.

Item 10: Petitions
Item 10: Petitions

Page 1292

Kelvin Ng Kitikmeot

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I have a petition from 144 residents of Kugluktuk to preserve our language, Petition 25-13(4). "We the undersigned are concerned with the preservation of our language. We wish to voice our concerns about the changes that are being implemented against our wishes as parents of the children being taught with these changes and wishes of the elders. Presently the Kitikmeot Board of Education is using the letters q, r and s in our written autography when they are not part of our local dialect for much of the Kitikmeot region. We want this implementation stopped immediately. We want our language preserved the way our elders know it and we want our dialect respected in its' distinctness." Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

-- Applause

Item 10: Petitions
Item 10: Petitions

Page 1292

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Thank you. Petitions. Item 11, reports of standing and special committees. Item 12, reports of committees on the review of bills. Item 13, tabling of documents. Mr. Todd.

Item 13: Tabling Of Documents
Item 13: Tabling Of Documents

Page 1292

John Todd Keewatin Central

Yes thank you, Mr. Speaker. I would like to table the following document, Tabled Document 85-13(4), Public Utilities Board of the Northwest Territories 1996 Annual Report. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Item 13: Tabling Of Documents
Item 13: Tabling Of Documents

Page 1292

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Tabling of documents. Mrs. Groenewegen.

Item 13: Tabling Of Documents
Item 13: Tabling Of Documents

Page 1292

Jane Groenewegen

Jane Groenewegen Hay River

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I would like to table a signed letter received today from Sunny Ashcroft, Tabled Document 86-13(4), Letter from Sunny Ashcroft Re: Reductions in Teaching Positions. She is a grade 10 student at Diamond Jenness Secondary School expressing concern over the reported loss of six teaching positions at her school and the effect that this will have on her education. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Item 13: Tabling Of Documents
Item 13: Tabling Of Documents

Page 1292

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Thank you. Tabling of documents. Mr. Picco.

Item 13: Tabling Of Documents
Item 13: Tabling Of Documents

Page 1292

Edward Picco Iqaluit

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I would like to table the following document, Tabled Document 87-13(4), Submission to the Nunavut Electoral Boundaries Commission.

Item 13: Tabling Of Documents
Item 13: Tabling Of Documents

Page 1292

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Thank you. Tabling of documents. Item 14, notices of motion. Mr. Miltenberger.

Motion 18-13(4): Extended Adjournment
Item 14: Notices Of Motion

Page 1292

Michael Miltenberger

Michael Miltenberger Thebacha

Mr. Speaker, I give notice that on Thursday, June 5, 1997 I will move the following motion.

I move, seconded by the honourable Member for Keewatin Central that notwithstanding rule 4 that when this House adjourns on June 5, 1997, it shall be adjourned until Wednesday, October 1, 1997.

And further, than any time prior to October 1, 1997 if the Speaker is satisfied after consultation with the Executive Council and Members of the Legislative Assembly that the public interest requires that the House should meet at an earlier time during the adjournment, the Speaker may give notice and thereupon the House shall meet at the time stated in such notice and shall transact its business as it has been duly adjourned at that time.

Motion 18-13(4): Extended Adjournment
Item 14: Notices Of Motion

Page 1292

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Thank you. Notices of motion. Mr. Ootes.

Motion 19-13(4): Relocation Of Federal Civil Servants
Item 14: Notices Of Motion

Page 1292

Jake Ootes

Jake Ootes Yellowknife Centre

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I give notice that on Thursday, June 5, 1997 I will move the following motion.

Now therefore, I move, seconded by the honourable Member for Iqaluit that the Legislative Assembly request that the Premier immediately communicate with the Prime Minister to request that a comprehensive listing of all federal civil service positions dedicated to policy development and programming in the Northwest Territories which are currently located in the southern jurisdictions be provided by September 30, 1997.

And further, that the Premier, in communicating this request, suggest to the Prime Minister that this exercise commence with the mineral, oil and gas functions currently residing within the Department of Indian Affairs and Northern Development;

And furthermore, upon receipt of the comprehensive listing, request that the Premier initiate discussions with the appropriate federal Ministers to facilitate the relocation of identified federal positions to the Northwest Territories as an interim step towards the eventual devolution of authority and programs from the federal government to the Government of the Northwest Territories.

Motion 19-13(4): Relocation Of Federal Civil Servants
Item 14: Notices Of Motion

Page 1292

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Thank you. Notices of motion. Item 15, notices of motions for first reading of bills. Item 16, motions. Item 17, first reading of bills. Item 18, second reading of bills. Item 19, consideration in committee of the whole of bills and other matters, Minister's statement 77-13(4), Committee Report 07-13(4), Bill 16 and Bill 18, with Mr. Steen in the chair.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1292

The Chair

The Chair Vince Steen

I would like to call the committee to order. On the order paper today we have Bill 18, Bill 16, Minister's statement 77-13(4) and Committee Report 07-13(4), and I would like some direction on how to proceed. Mr. Ootes.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1292

Jake Ootes

Jake Ootes Yellowknife Centre

Thank you, Mr. Chairman, that we proceed with Bill 18 first, followed by Bill 16 and that we have a break first, Mr. Chairman.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1292

The Chair

The Chair Vince Steen

Does the Committee agree that we proceed with Bill 18 and Bill 16 first?

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1293

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1293

The Chair

The Chair Vince Steen

Thank you. We will take a 15 minute break.

-- Break

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1293

The Chair

The Chair Jane Groenewegen

The committee is called back to order. We are on item Bill 18, An Act to Amend the Territorial Hospital Insurance Services Act, No. 2. Would the Minister like to have his witnesses come in? Would that be agreeable to the committee? Thank you.

I would like to welcome the departmental officials back and, for the record, could the Minister please introduce his witnesses.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1293

Kelvin Ng Kitikmeot

Thank you, Madam Chair. To my right, David Ramsden, deputy minister, to my left Rebecca Veinott, legal counsel for Department of Justice. Thank you.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1293

The Chair

The Chair Jane Groenewegen

Thank you, Mr. Minister. We are on general comments. Does anyone have any general comments on the Bill? That is Bill 18, so that would be tab number 18. Members are calling for clause by clause. Are the Members agreed that there are no further general comments on the Bill? We will proceed with clause by clause. Clause 1.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1293

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1293

The Chair

The Chair Jane Groenewegen

Clause 2.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1293

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1293

The Chair

The Chair Jane Groenewegen

Clause 3.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1293

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1293

The Chair

The Chair Jane Groenewegen

Clause 4.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1293

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1293

The Chair

The Chair Jane Groenewegen

Clause 5.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1293

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1293

The Chair

The Chair Jane Groenewegen

Clause 6.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1293

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1293

The Chair

The Chair Jane Groenewegen

Clause 7.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1293

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1293

The Chair

The Chair Jane Groenewegen

Clause 8.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1293

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1293

The Chair

The Chair Jane Groenewegen

Clause 9.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1293

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1293

The Chair

The Chair Jane Groenewegen

Clause 10.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1293

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1293

The Chair

The Chair Jane Groenewegen

Clause 11.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1293

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1293

The Chair

The Chair Jane Groenewegen

Clause 12.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1293

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1293

The Chair

The Chair Jane Groenewegen

Mr. Erasmus.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1293

Roy Erasmus Yellowknife North

Thank you, Madam Chair. Can you slow down a little bit please? We do not even have enough time to turn the pages here before we are saying agreed.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1293

The Chair

The Chair Jane Groenewegen

I am certainly getting a very overwhelming response from the Members. They are all shouting agreed out. I am just responding to the committee so I am turning the pages, but nevertheless I will speak more slowly. We will pause between clauses. Shall we continue? Clause 12.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1293

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1293

The Chair

The Chair Jane Groenewegen

Clause 13.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1293

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1293

The Chair

The Chair Jane Groenewegen

Clause 14.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1293

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1293

The Chair

The Chair Jane Groenewegen

Clause 15. Mr. Picco.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1293

Edward Picco Iqaluit

Thank you, Madam Chair. Madam Chair, my question to the Minister at this time is a quick question because the Minister is also the Minister for Justice. When we say the reasonable expenses occurred, is reasonable in this clause permissible? What do we mean by reasonable? What is defined as reasonable?

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1293

The Chair

The Chair Jane Groenewegen

Thank you, Mr. Picco. Mr. Ng.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1293

Kelvin Ng Kitikmeot

Madam Chair, the amendment proposed just changes the name to the Hospital Insurance and Health and Social Services Administration Act under clause 15, Madam Chair. Thank you.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1293

The Chair

The Chair Jane Groenewegen

Thank you, Mr. Ng. Does that clarify? Mr. Picco.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1293

Edward Picco Iqaluit

Thank you, Madam Chair. Madam Chair, on the clause the subsection as being amended, just to put in a new wording. But my question was actually on the clause, itself. It is the first time I had an opportunity to actually study this in some detail so when I say reasonable expenses incurred,

what is the legal definition of reasonable expenses? Are you looking at, for example, time in the hospital, time off work, so on and so forth, travel?

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1294

The Chair

The Chair Jane Groenewegen

Thank you, Mr. Picco. Mr. Ng.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1294

Kelvin Ng Kitikmeot

Madam Chair, I cannot speak specifically to the question. The honourable Member is referring to the clause in the existing act and the amendment is just, like I indicated earlier, a wording change for the title. Thank you.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1294

The Chair

The Chair Jane Groenewegen

Thank you, Mr. Ng. Clause 15.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1294

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1294

The Chair

The Chair Jane Groenewegen

Clause 16.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1294

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1294

The Chair

The Chair Jane Groenewegen

We are on page 8 of Bill 18. Clause 17.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1294

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1294

The Chair

The Chair Jane Groenewegen

Clause 18.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1294

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1294

The Chair

The Chair Jane Groenewegen

Clause 19.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1294

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1294

The Chair

The Chair Jane Groenewegen

Clause 20.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1294

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1294

The Chair

The Chair Jane Groenewegen

Thank you. Bill as a whole.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1294

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1294

The Chair

The Chair Jane Groenewegen

Does the committee agree that Bill 18 is ready for third reading?

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Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

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Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair Jane Groenewegen

Bill 18 is now ready for third reading. Thank you. I would like to thank the Minister and the witnesses and excuse them from the table. Thank you. What is the wish of the committee in terms of the next item? Mr. Ootes.

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Jake Ootes

Jake Ootes Yellowknife Centre

Madam Chair, that we proceed with Bill 16, followed by continued review of the Minister's statement on the Northern Employment Strategy. Thank you.

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Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair Jane Groenewegen

Thank you. Is the committee agreed that we proceed with Bill 16?

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Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

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Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair Jane Groenewegen

Bill 16, An Act to Amend the Northwest Territories Housing Corporation Act, tab 16 in your binders. Would the Minister responsible like to introduce the Bill?

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Goo Arlooktoo Baffin South

Thank you, Madam Chair. I am pleased to introduce Bill 16, An Act to Amend the NWT Housing Corporation Act. This amendment will allow the corporation to meet some of the objectives of Plan 2000. Specifically, it will allow the corporation to encourage more private sector lending for home ownership by being able to guarantee loans for housing purposes from private financial institutions. This amendment will also require a regulation to be approved to set the maximum cumulative value of all loans which may be guaranteed. Thank you, Madam Chair.

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The Chair

The Chair Jane Groenewegen

Thank you, Mr. Arlooktoo. At this time, would the chairman of the standing committee which reviewed the Bill like to make comments? Mr. Enuaraq.

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Tommy Enuaraq Baffin Central

Thank you, Madam Chair. On behalf of the Standing Committee on Social Programs, I would like to report on our review of Bill 16, An Act to Amend the NWT Housing Corporation Act. This Bill allows the corporation to make loan mortgage guarantees to support the programs in Plan 2000. The committee originally reviewed the legislative proposal for this Bill in April. We were comfortable with the intent of the Bill, however we did agree that there should be a maximum on the amount of guarantees the Housing Corporation can make. On June 2, 1997 we held a public hearing on the Bill with a presentation with the Minister for the Housing Corporation. No public stakeholders expressed concerns with the Bill. Since this Bill is closely tied to Plan 2000, Members asked the Minister for clarification on the work of his staff to close the potential loopholes in the program. He gave the committee satisfactory information on the efforts to revise and refine the plan to ensure it can meet its objectives. The Standing Committee on Social Programs has completed its review and has no major concerns with the proposed Bill. Thank you, Madam Chair.

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Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair Jane Groenewegen

Thank you, Mr. Enuaraq. At this time, I would like to ask the Minister if he would like to bring in witnesses. Does the committee agree?

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Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

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Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair Jane Groenewegen

I would like to ask the Deputy Sergeant-At-Arms to bring in the witnesses. Mr. Minister, for the record, could you please introduce your officials and witnesses?

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Goo Arlooktoo Baffin South

Thank you, Madam Chair. With me is Dave Murray, the President of the Housing Corporation, Jim Nelson, the Vice-President responsible for Finance and Administration and Rebecca Veinott, legal counsel with the Department of Justice.

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Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair Jane Groenewegen

Thank you, and welcome. At this time we will allow committee Members to make general comments on the Bill. General comments. Mr. Picco.

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Edward Picco Iqaluit

Thank you, Madam Chair. Madam Chair, my concern here is with the Bill or any type of legislation that provides for an exemption to the Financial Administration Act and the guarantees made by the Housing Corporation. Now I am wondering in the drafting of the legislation, did legal counsel or the Department of the Housing Corporation or the Housing Corporation itself, speak to any of the Auditor General's staff or anyone from the accounting field which would have given them any indication that, indeed, this would be standard accounting practices to exempt the Housing Corporation from the Financial Administration Act in regards to sections 86 and 87 of Bill 16?

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Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair Jane Groenewegen

Thank you, Mr. Picco. Mr. Arlooktoo.

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Goo Arlooktoo Baffin South

Thank you, Madam Chair. The draft legislation was reviewed by our own Department of Finance, the Financial Management Board Secretariat, and of course Justice. The section that the Member refers to merely exempts each and every application from going to Cabinet as a separate item. As the Financial Administration Act is written now, what would be required is for each and every one of the loans that we guarantee to go through Cabinet. That would be unnecessary and onerous, especially where dealing with 2,000 or so different applicants.

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Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair Jane Groenewegen

Thank you, Mr. Arlooktoo. Mr. Picco.

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Edward Picco Iqaluit

Thank you, Madam Chair. Madam Chair, I guess the Act in its original form with sections 86 and 87 were used to check the check and balance within the government to make sure that the government was not guaranteeing loans that we are not able to pay back if they went bad. What type of insurance does the Minister or his departmental officials have that indeed, by exempting from the Financial Administration Act, that we will be able to have that check in place?

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Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair Jane Groenewegen

Thank you, Mr. Picco. Mr. Arlooktoo.

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Goo Arlooktoo Baffin South

Madam Chair, what we will have is a normal screening process which will enable us to screen out as much as possible clients that may potentially have problems in paying off loans, et cetera. The loans that are guaranteed are through the banks so the banks, of course, have their fairly rigid ways of dealing with debts and forcing people to pay on time. What we also will be putting aside is a small reserve to be there as an insurance in case we do have problems.

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Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair Jane Groenewegen

Thank you, Mr. Arlooktoo. Mr. Picco.

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Edward Picco Iqaluit

Thank you, Madam Chair. Madam Chair, that does not set my mind at ease and I will explain why. For example, in the Nunavut settlement area where we do not own the land, 95 percent of your assumable mortgage is usually covered under Canada Mortgage and Housing Corporation. They insure your mortgage. The bank is at no risk because you have to come up with your five percent. So if I do default, the bank just goes to CMHC and they cover the risk. By setting up the debt reserve, on the other hand, is an indication that you do look at the exposure of having debt loss. Maybe my supplementary question on this area would be then, what is the corporation's reserve and what percentage of the guarantees being made do they expect to go into the negative side or the non-performing side of the guarantee?

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Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair Jane Groenewegen

Thank you, Mr. Picco. Mr. Arlooktoo.

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Goo Arlooktoo Baffin South

Thank you, Madam Chair. I would like to ask the vice-president responsible for Finance and Administration, Mr. Nelson, to deal with that question.

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Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Nelson

Thank you, Madam Chair. The approximate amount of reserves are about $5 million and those reserves are intended not so much to cover losses as they are cash flow requirements. We do not anticipate significant losses with the program. What we will probably be doing is where there are situations where the payments cannot be made under the mortgage of the bank that we have guaranteed, that we will buy back the unit and resell it. So it is really a bridging finance situation as opposed to a loss provision. It is more of a reserve of cash to allow for us to buy back the unit and resell it.

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Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair Jane Groenewegen

Thank you, Mr. Nelson. Mr. Picco.

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Edward Picco Iqaluit

Thank you, Madam Chair. I appreciate the clarification. Another concern is that we are going to get into selling and buying of houses. Although we have different checks and balances in place to assure that when you lend money or make guarantees that you have less exposure. But we know as a government, when we write off debts of the different corporations, the BCC and so on and so forth, over the past year and a half in this Assembly, that sometimes there are staggering amounts. I think it is naive of the corporation to look at not having some type of debt reserve and then of course what happens then is, for example, if I cannot meet my payments and then an arm of this government, the housing corporation, has to come in and evict me and sell my house, that leaves a very poor taste in my mouth as a government because we are going to be evicting people. I guess, I am looking for some type of assurance that you have a reserve or at least, if you have a portfolio of $15 million guaranteed are you looking at an exposure rate of 10 percent, five percent, eight percent. Standard accounting practices with lenders on the reserve or the debt loss ratio that the corporation would expect to take.

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Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair Jane Groenewegen

Thank you, Mr. Picco. Mr. Nelson.

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Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Nelson

Thank you, Madam Chair. The maximum amount of the guarantees that can be outstanding will be set by regulation in accordance with the Act provision and that is $10 million at any one time. That will be the amount of guarantees that could be outstanding at any time. The amount of reserve that we will be establishing would be an amount of approximately $4 million, which is I think more than sufficient to cover off losses. As I indicated earlier, the majority of that will be cash flow requirements to buy back units, as opposed to covering losses.

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Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair Jane Groenewegen

Thank you, Mr. Nelson. Final question, Mr. Picco.

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Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Edward Picco Iqaluit

Thank you, Madam Chair. Madam Chair, the regulations that the official mentions of $10 million, is that an internal regulation of the Housing Corporation itself, a policy? Because I can see that we are actually exempting the guarantees from the Financial Administration Act, which would have looked at that. For exempting 86 and 87 of the section of the Financial Administration Act, but in the meantime, replacing it with regulations from the Housing Corporation seems to be defeating the purpose. I wonder what regulations are you looking at when you are talking about the $10 million reserve?

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Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair Jane Groenewegen

Thank you, Mr. Picco. Mr. Arlooktoo.

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Goo Arlooktoo Baffin South

Madam Chair, the regulations that Mr. Nelson referred to will be as per the normal government wide regulations that we have that deal with different acts that are signed off by the commissioner.

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Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair Jane Groenewegen

Thank you, Mr. Arlooktoo. I have Mr. Henry.

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Seamus Henry Yellowknife South

Thank you, Madam Chair. I would like the Minister to advise as to what provisions the program has in place for communities that have an active real estate market. I know it really ties into it, but what provisions are in place to ensure that this program does not disrupt that market? I think, particularly of my own community, which is rather fragile at the present time in the real estate market. Thank you.

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Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair Jane Groenewegen

Thank you, Mr. Henry. Mr. Arlooktoo.

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Goo Arlooktoo Baffin South

Thank you, Madam Chair. The guarantees that we refer to are for loans that we would guarantee on band land only and not in communities like Yellowknife proper. As people may know, banks will not loan out for building of houses on band land because of the situation with the ownership of land.

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Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair Jane Groenewegen

Thank you, Mr. Arlooktoo. Mr. Henry.

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Seamus Henry Yellowknife South

Thank you, Madam Chair. I have just a little bit of a concern on a comment that the Minister made and I just want him to reassure us that as the Minister responsible for the Housing Corporation, that he indeed intends that everyone make their payment. I think the Minister referred to banks who traditionally like people to make payments on time and I am sure the Minister was not inferring that it was okay not to make your payments on time, so I would like that confirmed. Thank you.

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Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair Jane Groenewegen

Thank you, Mr. Henry. Mr. Arlooktoo.

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Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Goo Arlooktoo Baffin South

Thank you, Madam Chair. What I was referring to was the Member for Iqaluit's question on what kind of provisions we have in making sure that the Housing Corporation was protected and I indicated that we would be protected as per the usual system that the bank has in getting people to pay their loan on time.

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Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair Jane Groenewegen

Thank you, Mr. Arlooktoo. Mr. Henry.

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Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Seamus Henry Yellowknife South

Thank you, Madam Chair. Thank you, Minister. CMHC is already in the business of guaranteeing residential mortgages and I understand that there is certainly a number of situations in the territories as a whole that CMHC could not and probably chose not to operate in, so I certainly understand the government introducing a program such as this. But, can the Minister advise me if there are any other jurisdictions that they have checked with that, also were they provincial or territorial government, provide similar guarantees as required by this initiative. Thank you.

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Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair Jane Groenewegen

Thank you, Mr. Henry. Mr. Arlooktoo.

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Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Goo Arlooktoo Baffin South

Madam Chair, I am not aware, and neither are my officials aware of any other situation in Canada that this type of practice occurs. This is a unique and fairly drastic effort on our part to try to deal with the severe housing crisis that we have in the north and in a small way try to alleviate some of that. One, that we are aware of, I am told, is that the Department of Indian and Northern Affairs through its Minister can make guarantees on loans on reserves.

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Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair Jane Groenewegen

Thank you, Mr. Arlooktoo. Mr. Henry.

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Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Seamus Henry Yellowknife South

Thank you, Madam Chair. One of the clauses in the Act talks about not exceeding the prescribed maximum. My final question is, what is the prescribed maximum, or is there one? Thank you, Madam Chair.

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Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair Jane Groenewegen

Thank you, Mr. Henry. Mr. Arlooktoo.

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Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Goo Arlooktoo Baffin South

Thank you, Madam Chair. It is $10 million.

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Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair Jane Groenewegen

Thank you. Any further general comments. If there are no further general comments, is the committee agreed that we will proceed to a clause-by-clause review of the Bill? Bill 16, An Act to Amend

the Northwest Territories Housing Corporation Act. Tab 16 in your binders. Clause 1.

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Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

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Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair Jane Groenewegen

Clause 2.

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Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

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Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair Jane Groenewegen

Clause 3.

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Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

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Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair Jane Groenewegen

Clause 4.

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Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

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Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair Jane Groenewegen

Bill as a whole?

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

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Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair Jane Groenewegen

Does the committee agree that Bill 16 is ready for third reading?

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Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

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Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair Jane Groenewegen

Thank you. Bill 16 is now ready for third reading. I would like to thank the Minister and his witnesses.

Does the committee agree that we will return now to Minister's statement 77-13(4)? Would this be the next item on the agenda?

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Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

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Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair Jane Groenewegen

Thank you. General comments. Any general comments on the Minister's statement? Mr. Henry.

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Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Seamus Henry Yellowknife South

Thank you, Madam Chair. Last week, the Minister of Finance introduced this program and I think it is fair to say initially I was not impressed with the direction. The Minister, on Thursday I believe, made some comments and I certainly would view the program in a different light. I think the Minister, on behalf of the government, made some statements which were very fair and honest that this program is not going to answer all the questions of the north. So I certainly appreciate that and I view the program in a different light from those statements. I feel a little disappointed that over the last two years we have cut approximately 1,000 jobs. These were good paying jobs and I understand from my colleagues that they feel that the positions were cut from all communities in the Northwest Territories. They were large disposable income jobs and that is a backbone in any community. I feel it may be a little short of the mark now in trying to go forward to produce 1,000 jobs.

Time will tell. I mean there is an agreement on all parts that this is a short term situation and also that I think the sad part about this is, there is general agreement that when the money runs out, generally in the north, so do the jobs. I believe, Madam Chair, that presently in the north we have had a couple of years of bad news and I certainly agree with the government that it is about time some good news and some rewards were given to the people of the Northwest Territories for all the assistance and support they have given to the deficit reduction work. So from that point of view, Madam Chair, I sincerely hope that the number of jobs that the government are projecting are created and hopefully a number of them will sustain after the monies have run out. Thank you, Madam Chair.

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Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair Jane Groenewegen

Thank you, Mr. Henry. I have Mr. Steen and Mr. Picco. Mr. Steen.

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Vince Steen

Vince Steen Nunakput

Thank you, Madam Chair. Madam Chair, I made a fair number of comments the last time we had this in front of the committee on the Job Employment Strategy of this government. Since then, I have also had opportunity to review some information that was provided me by the Minister of Transportation, Mr. Antoine, on the highway construction projects which I believe tie in with the Employment Strategy of this government because they do relate to some programs that this government has which would help create northern employment and training for people.

Now, Madam Chair, I tabled this document yesterday in the House and it is called NWT Residents Employed on 1996 Highway 3 Construction Projects. If the committee would permit me, I would just like to bring some figures out of that document. The documents refer to four separate contracts issued by this government for highway reconstruction. Three of those contracts were awarded to Robinson Trucking and the total value of those contracts was $7.281 million. Now, there was a breakdown in those particular contracts as to how the northerners benefit as far as employment is concerned and I would just like to read you the figures.

In contract number 973001 which was kilometre 112 to 124, Robinson Trucking hired 103 driver operators and, according to the information they supplied, not one of them was an aboriginal. The total number of Northwest Territories resident driver operators were 17; there were 86 from the provinces. When we are dealing with the labour aspect of it, they hired 68 labourers, 38 of them were aboriginals, 25 were non-aboriginals, 61 of them were territorial residents, 7 of those labourers came from the provinces, including Newfoundland.

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Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Some Hon. Members

Shame.

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Vince Steen

Vince Steen Nunakput

The supervisors, they hired six. None of them were aboriginals, two of them were territorial residents and four were others. The camp attendant, they hired one, it was someone from the provinces. The shop person, they hired one, they were from the provinces. The administration, they hired two, none were aboriginal, one was a resident of the territory and one was from the provinces. Technicians, which I presume are flaggers or surveyors, they hired three, two of them were territorial residents, one was from the provinces. The interest parting about this, Madam Chair, is that the cover sheets for these contracts show that it is 100 percent northern content, and they claimed it.

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Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Some Hon. Members

Shame.

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Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Vince Steen

Vince Steen Nunakput

One hundred percent northern content. Now, on the second part of the contract, which was kilometre 124 to 134, and I presume in this that a lot of these drivers are the same people and the labourers are the same people, but the listing is a little different. It shows 91 driver operators hired, one was an aboriginal, 90 were non-aboriginal, 12 were Northwest Territory residents, 78 were from the provinces. The labour aspect, they hired 68 which is very similar to the above contract, 40 of them were aboriginals, 28 non-aboriginals, 63 were NWT residents, and five were from the provinces. And the breakdown for the camp attendant, was the same as the original contract which was one from the provinces. The mechanic in this particular job, they hired one mechanic and he was from the provinces. The administration, it is very similar to the other one, they hired one and he was an NWT resident. Technicians, very similar to the previous contract, they hired three, two were from the territories, one was from the provinces.

On the third part of the job contract, which was from kilometre 165 to 175, they hired 113 operator drivers but in this particular breakdown there was no aboriginal versus non-aboriginal, but it showed NWT residents of 22, 91 were from the provinces. The labourers, again it did not show the breakdown of aboriginal versus non-aboriginals, but it showed 65 labourers hired, 57 were NWT residents, eight of them were from the provinces. The supervisors for the contract, they hired seven, all of them were from the provinces. The administration, same as above. They hired one and he was from the provinces.

Now again, these two contracts that I just finished reading from, the cover sheets show 100 percent northern content, no southern content. So I presume that these three particular contracts qualified for BIP and BIP, as we know, is an incentive to hire northerners. So it is fiction to this Employment Strategy that we are talking about. But we must now question how much benefit we are getting out of these particular projects that we have going, programs that we have going.

In regards to opportunities for people to get employed - now Madam Chair, I do not mind a mention here that I know for a number of years now we have been training heavy equipment operators in Fort Smith through Arctic College. My question is, where are they going? Why are they not being employed? We are spending a lot of money training people but we do not seem to be getting any benefit. We must have, I believe, some way of encouraging local contractors to hire these people and, in particular, northerners. Now I know that in my region we have x number of heavy equipment operators who were employed through the oil and gas projects that were going on a few years ago and they do not have work right now but I am not seeing these people, these contractors, advertising for equipment operators. I have not seen that in the paper and I wonder why? Why are we not hiring people from the other areas rather than from the provinces? Why are we not encouraging the contractors to do this? We have to do it, otherwise the whole point of 15 per cent BIP is ridiculous, it does not do us any good and in this case, 15 percent of $7,281,000 is roughly $1 million. That is what we paid in BIP, what did we get out of it? Sixty-eight labourers hired, that is what we got out of it if you look at these particular contracts.

Just as an example, there was a fourth part to this sheet, which was a contract issued to Nishi Khon Poole Construction in a joint venture. Now I do not know if this is a negotiated contract or not, but here are the figures from their job. They hired 39 driver operators, 17 were aboriginal, 22 were non aboriginal, 23 were residents of the NWT, 16 were from the provinces. They had 38 labourers, 33 aboriginals, five that were not, 37 of them were from the territories, one was from the provinces. The supervisors, they had six supervisors, one was an aboriginal, five were non-aboriginal, one was from the NWT and five were from the provinces. The mechanics, they had two mechanics and they were both from the provinces.

So I think that these figures do show that if we encourage the contractors to hire local people either through negotiated contract process, whatever, they do in fact respond favourably to some degree. We did have aboriginals employed in this case. Now I am not a big fan of negotiated contracts if the end result is not reached and neither am I a big fan of affirmative action. I believe a person should be judged on their own merits, but in this case it does show that we need to encourage our big contractors to hire our people. We have to, some way or another and I have to ask the government somehow to address this particular issue. I am surprised that this type of thing goes on without our departments cracking down on the contractors. I really do not see the northern content.

So I must say that although we are putting another $16 million of money into job strategy, we have to see some end results, favourable. Thank you.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1298

Some Hon. Members

Hear, hear.

-- Applause

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1298

The Chair

The Chair Jane Groenewegen

Thank you, Mr. Steen. I have Mr. Picco on the list, but prior to that would the Minister like a chance to make a response to the first two speakers? Mr. Premier.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1298

Don Morin Tu Nedhe

Thank you, Madam Chair. I completely agree with Mr. Steen that we are embarking on a new initiative, a $16 million initiative. If you put that whole initiative aside, right now this government spends millions and millions of dollars on existing contracts. The ones that he stipulated about are prime examples of why we have to monitor and make sure that our departments monitor properly. But also, right in the tender document and the drafting of that tender document and I will double check on this. There is supposed to be, very clearly, that if you put in there that you are going to hire so many local people, so many northern people, and then if you do not do it, the hammer was supposed to be there so that we can lift the Business Incentive Policy, cancel the contract, or impose a penalty on the contractor to give the government a hammer in order to make sure that the contractors abide by the rules. In the contracts that Mr. Steen referred to, those are all tendered contracts. None are

negotiated contracts. I recall when I was a Minister of DPW and Housing Corporation, I had requests from communities to bring in one person from the south in a negotiated contract. I completely refused to allow them to do it. You negotiate a contract with this government, they have to be 100 percent northern content on that contract. It has to be. Local first, regional, then territorial. I completely agree that contractors have to take the initiative. If they continue to want to benefit from the policies and programs of this government, they have to take the initiative and look around the Northwest Territories. Not only in Yellowknife or Hay River if the highway construction is in this area, but in the Inuvik area, because back in the '70s, when the oil prices were higher and there was lot of action in the Beaufort region, there were many people, including myself out of this region, that worked in the Beaufort. The favour should be returned. If we need equipment operators and they are not available in this region, we should pull them out of the Beaufort region and other regions of the Northwest Territories.

Recall through our socio-economic agreements with BHP mines that the pick up points will be including Inuvik area, Cambridge area I believe, Fort Simpson, Fort Smith and all areas in the Northwest Territories, not only just the surrounding areas of that development. If we expect private sector to do that when we sign agreements with them, then we should be doing that with our own contractors to ensure that the job gets done and it gets done by northerners. Thank you.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1299

The Chair

The Chair Jane Groenewegen

Thank you, Mr. Morin. General comments on the Minister's statement. I have Mr. Picco.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1299

Edward Picco Iqaluit

Thank you, Madam Chair. Madam Chair, I did speak to this issue just the other day when it came up, as Mr. Steen did. But there are a couple of points I think should be clarified. One of the points that keeps coming back to me, now, from my constituency, is with the lay-offs that have occurred and the cuts in different items and we could come up with the $16 million. I wonder if the Minister of Finance could clarify where the money came from because he did say there was no new money. Maybe just for the people out there so they would know that indeed there was no new money, it was rebasing. Just an observation on Mr. Morin's point earlier. I think Mr. Steen has made some excellent points and Mr. Morin talked about the hammer. I think our hammer here in this government has become a feather and we need more than rhetoric. I think we should be embracing what Mr. Steen has said and that someone should be held accountable to the task for that type of contract. It does not matter if it was negotiated, sole sourced, or tendered, it should not have occurred. It has occurred, it might be still occurring. Mr. Steen would not have found out this information unless he asked some questions in this House. We need more than just rhetoric. Thank you, Madam Chair.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1299

The Chair

The Chair Jane Groenewegen

Thank you, Mr. Picco. I believe there was a question in there directed to the Minister of Finance, Mr. Todd.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1299

John Todd Keewatin Central

Thank you, Madam Chair. As I said in my statement, I believe that we managed to find the money from within with good solid money management by the departments and by the FMBS that was sale of some assets in Public Works and the sale of some assets of that assist this that deals with our cash flow and our projections. It exceeded that so we were able to secure the funding through a variety of those money managements and the sale of assets. Thank you.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1299

The Chair

The Chair Jane Groenewegen

Thank you, Mr. Todd. Mr. Ootes.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1299

Jake Ootes

Jake Ootes Yellowknife Centre

Thank you, Madam Chair. In the Premier's meetings with his Premier's panel on the northern economy, I am sure they have discussed employment potential and I noted previously a report that had many recommendations in it. I wondered if the Premier's panels report has been reviewed by the Minister of Finance when they were formulating the Employment Strategy Program. Because I recall there were a number of areas, for instance, in the tourism area, in others areas, oil and gas sector, mining and so forth, that there were some good recommendations. One of which is already being instituted and that is the regulatory reform process. But there were a multitude of recommendations in that report, if I recall. Perhaps the Premier or the Minister could comment on that. If it has been taken into consideration?

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1299

The Chair

The Chair Jane Groenewegen

Thank you, Mr. Ootes. Mr. Morin.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1299

Don Morin Tu Nedhe

Thank you, Madam Chair. Yes, some of the recommendations have been taken into consideration in this initiative by the government. Not all can be addressed by one initiative of the government. It means that some other departments have to respond as well to those recommendations of that panel. But private sector people have told us that there are many people that could be employable in the Northwest Territories if proper training was done, as well as our young people have to have the opportunity to get work experience and we are trying to do that. Not only has the Premier's Panel advised that, but many of the territorial residents as well as Members of the Legislative Assembly. Thank you.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1299

The Chair

The Chair Jane Groenewegen

Thank you, Mr. Morin. Mr. Ootes.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1299

Jake Ootes

Jake Ootes Yellowknife Centre

Thank you, Madam Chair. Can the Premier tell us if he will be meeting with the panel again shortly to discuss the Employment Strategy so that input can be seen from those people because they are all from the private sector and can no doubt add a lot of contribution to the proposal?

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1299

The Chair

The Chair Jane Groenewegen

Thank you, Mr. Ootes. Mr. Morin.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1299

Don Morin Tu Nedhe

Thank you, Madam Chair. Like any other document, this initiative will be passed on and given to the Premier's Panel. It will also be given to all our metis locals, band councils, Inuvialuit Development Corporations, all our

hamlet councils, our local organizations, as well as copies in general to the general public. So everybody knows what we were doing and that is the way to communicate so that is how we will do it.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1300

The Chair

The Chair Jane Groenewegen

Thank you, Mr. Morin. Further question, Mr. Ootes.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1300

Jake Ootes

Jake Ootes Yellowknife Centre

Thank you, Madam Chair. I just wanted to ensure that the Chambers of Commerce in all localities would also receive it?

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1300

The Chair

The Chair Jane Groenewegen

Thank you, Mr. Ootes. Mr. Morin.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1300

Don Morin Tu Nedhe

Thank you. Yes. For sure, as well as all our aboriginal organizations like the Dene Nation, NTI, as well as the rest. Everybody on the mailing list will get a copy.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1300

The Chair

The Chair Jane Groenewegen

Thank you, Mr. Morin. Are there any further general comments or questions on Minister's statement 77-13(4)? Mr. Erasmus.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1300

Roy Erasmus Yellowknife North

Thank you, Madam Chair. I wanted to comment a bit on some comments that I heard other Members make in the past couple of days.

First of all, in regards to the Investing In People initiative. Investing In People is adult basic education, or upgrading. The intent of this particular investment is to put part-time or full-time adult education coordinators in the small communities that do not currently have them, including three in the Inuvik region, Tsiigehtchic, Paulatuk, and Sachs Harbour. Another three in the Sahtu region. Another four in the North Slave region. Five in the Deh Cho region. Three in the South Slave region. Yet, it seems as though some MLAs are saying they do not want people, these communities, to get these. It is hard for me to understand that because education prepares people for jobs. When people are educated, they have more of a choice in what type of a job that person gets. But, it is not only preparing people for jobs. It also improves their lifestyle. It is a fact that in general, educated people are healthier, they have higher employment rates, in other words, it is easier to get a job, and they are not as poor as those less educated and generally they have less children.

In simple terms, educating adults saves us money. We are talking about less social assistance, lower health care costs, and also less education costs in the future, that is because educated people's children are more likely to succeed in school themselves. First, once a person is educated, they can help their own children with homework. After all, it is pretty hard to help your kid with something like fractions if you have never heard of fractions. Secondly, educated people seem to place a higher emphasis on education. Again, I am talking in general. Also, if your children see you getting educated, they grow up expecting to do it themselves. In fact, my child is only 10 years old and he is already talking about which university he is going to go to because he has seen myself and my wife and my oldest son all going to university.

I also heard people complaining about others taking more than one course. I do not hear any complaints about people getting doctorate degrees. In fact, people with doctorates are quite respected. It takes around 19 years to get a doctorate degree. First, you have to graduate from junior high, then you have to get a high school diploma. Then you have to get a bachelor's degree. Then a master's degree and only then, a doctorate. Yet, some people here would seem to begrudge people because they take two or three different courses. Why? In today's job market you need to be versatile. People taking more courses should be applauded. It takes courage to go back to school as an adult. I know because I went back to school as an adult. It is very difficult to stop going to school and go back to work and then back to school again. Very difficult. You have to quit your job, you do not know if you are going to get another job when you come back. You do not know if you are going to have housing when you come back, if you are renting. That is why I always encourage people to take more schooling while they are currently in school. I say people should not complain about others taking too many courses unless they have gone back to school as an adult themselves. Unless they know what it is like to not be able to get a job because they are not trained. Others say that it is not government's place to find ways to get people employed. I disagree. I believe it is government's job to train people. The federal government is currently getting out of training. Every day it is more and more on our shoulders to improve the opportunities for jobs. We need to try to help businesses, the first nations, the metis locals, and the municipalities put more people to work. After all, it is our people out there who are unemployed. It is our responsibility. It is not only our responsibility though, it makes good economic sense.

People also talked about mega-projects such as road construction and mines. Those things are all right, but you need trained people to work on mega-projects. What happens if someone is already trained in an area but they need further training to work on a mega-project. Do we reject an application because this person already received some training at Arctic College or Aurora College? Also, mega-projects are not the only solution. The Northern Employment Strategy Program is to help people with community empowerment. Cost shared dollars for community empowerment to implement community justice, to work at the friendship centres, at the band offices, or the metis locals. There are many opportunities there to supplement the funding and to get programs running better or simply to provide office experience. Then I also heard something about women taking cooking classes. I commend women for going out and taking cooking classes. They are taking a step to get their own job. Many of them have not worked before and they have raised children. Now they want to get into the work force. You do not learn commercial cooking at home. Cooking classes help people to learn all kinds of new things. They learn to cook in camp settings, for crews and you do not learn this overnight. Many times you have to go more than once. It is the same as anything else. If you are an apprentice, you have to go more than once. You usually go four years. Cooking should not be any different, although I am not a cook myself. I am assuming that. I have known people to take more than one course. They told me they were learning something new each time.

There was talk of people painting fences in cemeteries over and over. Madam Chair, the committee that worked on this does not want students or anybody to paint things over and over. Cabinet certainly is not looking at that. We are not talking about make-work projects. For the most part, they should be meaningful jobs, helping people to get office experience. Helping people complete community initiatives. Once again, as I mentioned before, we have instituted many initiatives which could cost-share dollars in the area, particularly of community empowerment, community justice, friendship centres, band offices and metis locals. All these organizations are crying for extra assistance because money has been cut.

A Northern Employment Strategy Program would assist these organizations and municipalities with cost-shared dollars. Madam Chair, there is one area that has been overlooked and I think could be looked at. The MLA offices could certainly provide people with good experience, job experience as well as learning opportunities about the government and currently the cost-shared dollars, from what I see of it, would not allow an MLA to cost-share their dollars in order to provide opportunities for students or others to work in their offices for short period of time to give them office experience, that type of thing. I would encourage the Cabinet to look at that.

With that Madam Chair, I thank you for the opportunity to make my comments.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1301

The Chair

The Chair Jane Groenewegen

Thank you, Mr. Erasmus. Anything further? Mr. Ningark.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1301

John Ningark Natilikmiot

Thank you, Madam Chair. I like what I heard from other Members of this Assembly. I like what I read in this particular Minister's statement 77-13(4). I believe there is an enthusiasm from the Members of this House. I believe the Ministers and a certain Minister, the lead Minister in this case, have created something that most of us in the NWT were hoping for during the last two years. We talked about reductions and so on. The people in our communities are getting tired of it. What are you going to do next? Are there going to be any further cut backs?

I believe Madam Chair, when we talk about unemployment, social problems, crimes, abuse of many things we never thought would happen a few years back. Madam Chair, I believe what other members have said. We should get into construction, utilize the mining, utilize those people who have training in the area of equipment operations. I believe when people talk about getting further education.

Madam Chair there are times when we shy away from(inaudible) of what the majority of the people in my area are able to do. All the people in my area want to be in the mining industry. Not every one was trained to be an equipment operator. Not everyone wants to work in the construction field. There are those people that were born on the land, raised on the land. I am talking about those people who are in their 50s, 60s, 70s, still very capable of being independent. To retain their pride, to be able to support their family by hunting and trapping. I believe this government hears the message, hears the outcry from the public, from those people who once were proud. Once were able to maintain their own identity in their own area in things that they were able to do by supporting their family - hunting and trapping. Why do we shy away from promoting the trapping industry? Not everyone I stated, Madam Chair, wants to work in the construction field. Not everyone wants to work in the mining industry. Not everyone is able to work from 9 to 5 as an office person. Not everyone, Madam Chair wants to go into a classroom and learn. I am talking about those people who are 55 or 60. They are capable. They have something to offer. Why are we telling them - I do not think they want to be able to live off social assistance. I have never seen anyone who has gone to the Social Services Office, those who are 55 and 60. I have never seen anyone saying "I cannot find a job in this community." There are no jobs in the community. Not everyone is able to - those very few jobs we have in the community, there is a very low turnover. If you get a job in the community, Madam Chair, you have to hang on to that job. You have to, otherwise if you quit, get fired or laid off, there is no other alternative in a small community other than going to the Social Services Office. Those people who have their education, who have to a degree, some ability to read and write, who have some initial training, want to keep their job in the community. What about those people who are 55 and 60? They do not want to be living off social assistance forever. They enjoy hunting. They can hunt, they are capable of it. They know that in the fur industry, there is very little money they can make. We as a government, Madam Chair, I think have failed the people.

We should try to promote the trapping industry as well as having the Employment Strategy in this particular jurisdiction. I applaud, I commend those people who have come up with the statement, a plan, of what we propose to do in the next few years in the area of employment, education and so on.

I believe that, I embrace that. I believe the people in my area but there are those people - what is the most healthy environment in this area, in this planet? One of the most healthy environments, Madam Chair is to live off the land. I am not saying that young people should be living off the land, young people should not be going to school, or those people who are in their 30s, 40s, should not be in school. I am not saying that. By all means take the opportunity, take advantage of what can make your life better.

By the same token, Madam Chair, what about those people who want to, are willing to, who are capable. Who have learned to live off the land and hunt and support their family, maintain their pride. I think and I know, when you are looking at a person who is 60 to 65, sometimes they are confined to their house. Sometimes they have to go to the nursing station and get different kinds of prescriptions, medical prescriptions. I know if we have the political will to help them out, to go on the land, to promote the trapping industry or carving. Those same people who have been confined to their homes and addicted to different drugs, once we are able to help them out with some financing and so on. Once we have been able to promote the fur industry, those same people who were confined in their home, would, guaranteed, be able to get healthy again, be able to support themselves. Give them that pride. Give them something that they are able to do, be part of society, becoming a part of the community. I think a sense of pride, if you take the pride from the individual, what else do you have? Nothing.

I think in some cases we have failed to promote and help those people who are not unable to find jobs in the community. Who feel they are too old to get in the classroom because they are in their 60s. The same people would become part of what we have been hoping for, since the day I got elected, Madam Chair. I like what the other Member is saying. I like the Minister's statement. I like the plan. I think we have something to hope for. I hope we can follow through with this, I hope we can educate and hire the people in this particular jurisdiction. By the same token, do not lose sight of those people who are able to do something else; who are able to go hunting and trapping and so on. I think when you talk about economic growth in the community, I know we are talking about jobs, education. I am one of the proponents of that. Education is important, getting jobs is important. We can touch people, we can make them meaningful members of society, but what about those people who are able to do something else? I think we have to keep that in mind. Thank you, Madam Chair.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1302

The Chair

The Chair Jane Groenewegen

Thank you, Mr. Ningark. Are there any further general comments on the Minister's statement? If not, does the Committee agree that this item has been concluded?

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1302

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1302

The Chair

The Chair Jane Groenewegen

What is the wish of the committee at this point? Mr. Ootes.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1302

Jake Ootes

Jake Ootes Yellowknife Centre

Madam Chair, I move that we report progress.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1302

The Chair

The Chair Jane Groenewegen

Thank you. There is a motion on the floor. The motion is in order. The motion is not debatable. All those in favour of the motion? There is a quorum. Those opposed? The motion to report progress is carried. I will now rise and report progress.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1302

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

The House will come back to order. Item 20, report of committee of the whole. Mrs. Groenewegen.

Item 20: Report Of Committee Of The Whole
Item 20: Report Of Committee Of The Whole

Page 1302

The Chair

The Chair Jane Groenewegen

Mr. Speaker, your committee has been considering Bills 18 and 16 and Minister's Statement 77-13(4) and would like to report that Minister's statement 77-13(4) is concluded and Bills 18 and 16 are ready for third reading. Mr. Speaker, I move that the report of the committee of the whole be concurred with. Thank you.

Item 20: Report Of Committee Of The Whole
Item 20: Report Of Committee Of The Whole

Page 1302

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Thank you, seconded by Mr. Dent. The motion is in order. To the motion. Question is being called. All those in favour? All those opposed? The motion is carried. Item 21, third reading of bills. Mr. Ng.

Item 21: Third Reading Of Bills
Item 21: Third Reading Of Bills

Page 1302

Kelvin Ng Kitikmeot

Mr. Speaker, I move, seconded by the honourable Member for Sahtu that Bill 17, An Act to Amend the Territorial Hospital Insurance Services Act be read for the third time. Thank you.

Item 21: Third Reading Of Bills
Item 21: Third Reading Of Bills

Page 1302

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Thank you. The motion is in order. To the motion. Question is being called. All those in favour? All those opposed? The motion is carried. Bill 17 has had third reading. Third reading of bills. Mr. Clerk, Item 22, orders of the day.

Item 22: Orders Of The Day
Item 22: Orders Of The Day

Page 1302

Clerk Of The House Mr. David Hamilton

Mr. Speaker, meetings for tomorrow morning at 9:00 a.m. of the Standing Committee on Government Operations, at 11:00 a.m. of the Ordinary Members Caucus and at 12:00 noon of the Western Caucus.

Orders of the day for Wednesday, June 4, 1997:

1. Prayer

2. Ministers' Statements

3. Members' Statements

4. Returns to Oral Questions

5. Recognition of Visitors in the Gallery

6. Oral Questions

7. Written Questions

8. Returns to Written Questions

9. Replies to Opening Address

10. Petitions

11. Reports of Standing and Special Committees

12. Reports of Committees on the Review of Bills

13. Tabling of Documents

14. Notices of Motion

15. Notices of Motions for First Reading of Bills

16. Motions

17. First Reading of Bills

- Bill 19, Municipal Statutes Amending Act, No. 2

- Bill 20, An Act to Amend the Property Assessment and Taxation Act

18. Second Reading of Bills 19. Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

- Committee Report 07-13(4)Report of the Working Group on Affirmative Action and Human Resource Management

20. Report of Committee of the Whole

21. Third Reading of Bills

- Bill 16, An Act to Amend the NWT Housing Corporation Act

- Bill 18, An Act to Amend the Territorial Hospital Services Act, No. 2

22. Orders of the Day

Item 22: Orders Of The Day
Item 22: Orders Of The Day

Page 1303

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Thank you. This House stands adjourned until Wednesday, June the 4th at 1:30 p.m.

-- ADJOURNMENT