Mr. Chairman, the rules have been applied consistently. We learned a lot as a department and when we negotiated the first block funding arrangement with the city of Yellowknife. The nature of the agreements are consistent from one community to the other. We have consistently looked at the operations and maintenance funding requirements of the municipality and the capital funding requirements forecast for that community in our budget. What we might expect as a department to receive, in terms of capital allocations, it has been on the basis that we have entered into these block funding agreements with major municipalities. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Debates of Feb. 11th, 1998
Topics
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Christensen
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Michael Miltenberger Thebacha
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I have a request to make then of the Minister. Would it be possible on the operations and maintenance block funding side to get the criteria of how you reach those figures you mentioned? For example, in Fort Simpson, equalization of the formula being a major variable that accounts for the significant discrepancy. I
would be interested, if you could give me in one or two pages, a summary of how that thing works so it could make sense to me and then if I have a question by the people in Fort Smith saying what the heck is going on here I can speak relatively knowledgeably. I would also be interested in the formal criteria, if there is any other than the capital plan, on how you reach an agreement on the capital. What kind of process takes place? What are their criteria? What are the factors you weigh other than a department coming in with a nice wish list totalling $1.5 million a year for three years? There must be some criteria that you priorize and select things. I would be very interested in that as well. Block funding and block funding arrangements are upon us in the wave of the future. The more conversant I am and my constituents are, I am assuming the better we can negotiate with the department. Thank you.
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Manitok Thompson Aivilik
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. We will provide the information to the Member. Thank you.
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The Chair Vince Steen
Thank you, Madam Minister. I have Mr. Henry and Mr. Roland in that order. Mr. Henry.
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
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Seamus Henry Yellowknife South
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. On the question, again of the $1.5 million for Fort Simpson, this hopefully will not smell as bad next year. I note they are getting sewage treatment in that area. I certainly understand where some of these items have to be performed, like the sewage treatment for health purposes, the arena, fine, main street, district heating, an ambulance, a computer, which is for this present coming year. Can the Minister provide us with some information as to what is proposed over the next two or three years? If this block funding was negotiated and it was decided it is going to be $1.5 million plus, what were the areas that were identified for future years? Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
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Manitok Thompson Aivilik
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I will allow my assistant deputy minister to answer that question.
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Christensen
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. There was a list of capital projects upon which the capital portion of the block funding agreement was based. The number may not exactly equal the amount that had been in our capital plan, but there was a list of projects over the period of the agreement that we considered when we came to the capital portion of the block funding agreement. There is that list of projects. The village may have a different list they are working on now that we have entered into the block funding agreement. The one set of information is available in our files. The second set of information we would need to research with the village. If the Member is asking for that information, we can undertake to provide that. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
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Seamus Henry Yellowknife South
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I take it that the department's staff were satisfied that the community of Fort Simpson, in this particular case, did warrant this amount of money over a three year period. This is, I understand, the first year of block funding for Fort Simpson. Is that correct? If it is, Mr. Chairman, what would stop a community such as Fort Rae from also getting block funding? I think it is fair to say that these last few weeks there has been a considerable amount of discussion on communities such as Fort Rae not getting fair monies from MACA. What would a community of Fort Rae, for example, need to do to be able to get a windfall such as Fort Simpson has to take care of infrastructure requirements that they say they need? Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
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The Chair Vince Steen
Thank you, Mr. Henry. I believe the deputy minister answered that before, but I will allow her to repeat her answer. Ms. Ballantyne.
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Ballantyne
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, currently the department only enters into block funding arrangements with tax-based municipalities in recognition of the fact that tax-based municipalities raise a significant amount of their own revenue through taxation. Rae-Edzo is not a tax-based municipality and as such, it is quite dependant on the department for the funding it does receive for the operation of municipal services. Through the Keewatin pilot project we are trying to find a way to block fund nontax-based municipalities. It is part of the approach we are trying to develop through the pilot and it is certainly our hope that through that work we could find a way to block fund nontax-based municipalities in a way that would provide them with the degree of flexibility they currently do not have, but that tax-based municipalities which are block funded currently enjoy. Today, we do not have a way to block fund nontax-based municipalities. That is what we are trying to find through the Keewatin pilot project. Today that option is really only available to tax-based municipalities. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
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Seamus Henry Yellowknife South
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Following up on a concern, or a question, raised by Mr. Miltenberger, I certainly accept the fact that government's responsibility is to equalize for all. I do have a concern about the, as Mr. Miltenberger put it, raising the bar to the height it has been. When I look at the facts, the community of Yellowknife of 17,000 receives $5.4 million from this government and a newly negotiated formula financing of Fort Simpson gets $2.4 million with a population of 1500. I realize there are going to be economies of scale, but a community such as Yellowknife would not be able to ascertain or obtain that type of funding, but it certainly does raise the bar quite a bit higher. I would like some assurances from the Minister that when these other block funding agreements are terminated there will be provisions to have block funding agreements as rewarding as some of the newer negotiated agreements. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
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Ballantyne
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I think the degree of our generosity will depend on the resources we have available at the time. I think we can provide the Member with assurances that the block funding agreement renewals will be negotiated in a fair and equitable way in accordance with the criteria in place in the department. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
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Floyd Roland Inuvik
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. The question I asked earlier in reference to some funding passed recently through supplementary appropriation of $1.055 was the amount to do with the recreation centre community hall in Fort Simpson. Is that amount included in the negotiated amount of $1.5 million over the three years? Is that amount included or is that over and above?
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Manitok Thompson Aivilik
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I am advised it is in there, but we will check that. Thank you.
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Floyd Roland Inuvik
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I believe that will be important in helping Members understand the amount that we are looking at. Now another thing you mentioned earlier is some of the changes they have to go through due to water sewer problems they have there. Can you identify the scope of that because that could be a significant factor also?