This is page numbers 703 - 737 of the Hansard for the 13th Assembly, 5th Session. The original version can be accessed on the Legislative Assembly's website or by contacting the Legislative Assembly Library. The word of the day was chairman.

Topics

Members Present

Honourable Jim Antoine, Honourable Goo Arlooktoo, Mr. Levi Barnabas, Honourable Charles Dent, Mr. Enuaraq, Mr. Erasmus, Mr. Evaloarjuk, Honourable Sam Gargan, Mrs. Groenewegen, Mr. Henry, Honourable Stephen Kakfwi, Mr. Krutko, Mr. Miltenberger, Honourable Don Morin, Honourable Kelvin Ng, Mr. Ningark, Mr. O'Brien, Mr. Ootes, Mr. Picco, Mr. Rabesca, Mr. Roland, Mr. Steen, Honourable Manitok Thompson, Honourable John Todd.

Oh, God, may your spirit and guidance be in us as we work for the benefit of all our people, for peace and justice in our land and for the constant recognition of the dignity and aspirations of those whom we serve. Amen.

Item 1: Prayer
Item 1: Prayer

Page 703

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Thank you, Mrs. Groenewegen. Good afternoon. Orders of the day. Item 2, Ministers' statements. Mr. Arlooktoo.

Minister's Statement 51-13(5): Plan 2000 Update
Item 2: Ministers' Statements

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Goo Arlooktoo Baffin South

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, as Minister responsible for the Northwest Territories Housing Corporation, I have committed to keeping Members informed of this government's efforts in increasing our housing stock in the NWT. Therefore, Mr. Speaker, I am pleased to be able to update this Assembly, once again, on the progress of the NWT Housing Corporation's Plan 2000 initiative.

As you will recall, I introduced this initiative earlier this year to improve the housing conditions for up to 2000 families by the year 2000. The initiative has indeed expanded the delivery of housing assistance from the range of 300 to 400 families a year to 648 families this year. Under Plan 2000, the corporation is helping more families become home owners as well as upgrading or replacing homes in the social housing portfolio.

Mr. Speaker, while Plan 2000 represents a significant increase in the corporation's program delivery, it by no means represents all of the projects which the corporation is funding this year. In total, the corporation will be undertaking over 1,000 projects of all types in 1997-98. In addition to directly improving the living conditions for our residents, Plan 2000 also has a positive impact upon our economy. By expanding the number of projects undertaken this year, Plan 2000 is creating additional construction jobs in communities. I am extremely pleased and proud of the fact that Plan 2000 is on target. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

--Applause

Minister's Statement 51-13(5): Plan 2000 Update
Item 2: Ministers' Statements

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The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Thank you. Ministers' statements. Mr. Ng.

Minister's Statement 52-13(5): Strategic Initiatives Fund
Item 2: Ministers' Statements

Page 703

Kelvin Ng Kitikmeot

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, over the past two years, the Department of Health and Social Services and our regional boards, while working to maintain current levels of programs and services to the people of the NWT, have struggled to assist this government to balance the budget. At the same time, the population and demand for services have increased, making our task even more difficult.

During this time, we were also beginning the much needed shift away from what had become, for the most part, an exclusive focus on treatment. The department and boards are now developing an approach that is more pro-active and prevention oriented. Mr. Speaker, we need to do a better job of getting to the underlying or root causes of the problems that face our residents. For example, with respect to alcohol and drug abuse, we have tended to treat the addiction, and to deal with the tragic outcomes of that abuse such as suicides, FAS/FAE, and violent crimes.

We need to move beyond just dealing with treatment, and address the underlying causes that lead to addiction. To do that, we need to strengthen our ability to support counselling and healing, in the community. Even as boards and the department took the tough steps to reduce costs, the pressures of forced growth continued to build. These demands, primarily for treatment, will continue to grow, as prevention efforts take time to show results. In order to make a difference over time, we need to make investments now, with new funds dedicated to prevention activities.

Mr. Speaker, the Strategic Initiatives Fund allows boards the opportunity to address the need for greater activity in prevention, education, and support for the residents they serve. It allows them to do this without having to cut into existing programs and services.

This fund calls for Health and Social Service boards to initiate re-investments in the following critical areas:

1. healthy children,

2. mental health,

3. public health,

4. supported living and

5. human resources.

Mr. Speaker, tomorrow I will provide more detail about these areas and what we hope to accomplish in each.

Strategic Initiative Fund allows each board to focus on their own priorities and come up with plans to meet the needs of their own regions.

Mr. Speaker, I would like to add that while this funding gives much needed relief to the system, it is only the beginning. In time we will begin to see the benefits of prevention on future generations; when our children are adults and begin their quest to protect their children. This investment and its subsequent results are just one element in our overall effort to improve the long-term socio-economic status of northerners. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Minister's Statement 52-13(5): Strategic Initiatives Fund
Item 2: Ministers' Statements

Page 704

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Thank you. Ministers' statements. Item 3, Members' statements. Mr. Miltenberger.

Member's Statement 202-13(5): Moosehide Tanning Opportunities
Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 704

Michael Miltenberger

Michael Miltenberger Thebacha

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, today I would like to speak about an opportunity that would allow communities and regions to work together, that would support local hunters as well as those people that do traditional arts and crafts. Specifically, I am talking about the situation in my riding during moose hunting season. There are on average 100 moose or so taken by the local people. Unfortunately there is not much of a need for the hides so they get left in the bush. I also understand in talking to some of my colleagues, in other regions and other communities there are not enough moosehides available to do traditional arts and crafts. I see an opportunity here for RWED and the Minister to play a proactive role in an important issue to work with the people, the hunters of Thebacha and other communities and regions where hides are in short supply to work out an arrangement to bring the hides and put them to use. I also believe the situation is the same in the riding of Tu Nedhe. I would ask the Minister later during question period, Mr. Speaker, if he can throw his support behind this very worthwhile initiative to promote local arts and crafts and support those very valuable skills as well as work with the hunters. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

--Applause

Member's Statement 202-13(5): Moosehide Tanning Opportunities
Item 3: Members' Statements

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The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Thank you. Members' statements. Mr. Rabesca.

Member's Statement 203-13(5): The Cultural Importance Of Moosehide
Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 704

James Rabesca North Slave

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I rise today to address the topic of moosehide. Moose hide is the pride of the Dene culture. It is the source of traditional life for aboriginals. It is used for survival, ceremonies and festivities. The moose is a majestic animal and has been a symbol of economic survival in the Dene culture for generations. As the world around it has changed, the moose has adapted to its surroundings. In this, it is very similar the Dene of the north.

Mr. Speaker, anybody in the north, the Americas, or the world, will take notice of someone who is wearing their traditional aboriginal clothing. For the Dene, this clothing will usually involve the use of moosehide. Today, the practice of wearing traditional clothing, such as jackets, moccasins, mukluks or gloves and mittens, is not something we see in everyday life.

One concern to me, as I am sure it is to others, is the shortage of raw materials to make our traditional clothing. Mr. Speaker, I am not saying that moose is an endangered species. However, I do say the endangerment is that Dene people have fallen out of the traditional practice of using all parts of the moose. It seems that the meat is taken while the hide and other non-edible parts are being discarded.

Mr. Speaker, it takes a lot of time, effort and skill to treat a moosehide for use in clothing. Fortunately, everything needed for this treatment is found in the moose itself. Bones can be boiled down and the liquid used to soften the hide. The shinbone of the moose is a perfect tool to scrap the hide and the sinew can be used as thread. The moose provides us with everything we need to continue producing our traditional clothing.

This, Mr. Speaker, leads me to my second concern. The lack of interest in our young people to wear our traditional clothing, let alone learning how to produce these beautiful pieces of art. When I was younger, children used to take pride in receiving products made out of moosehide. They would be given at special times, like Easter, Christmas or in the summer holidays.

Today, Mr. Speaker, it disturbs and saddens me when I see the younger generation taking more pride in a jacket with a company or sports logo than in a moosehide vest. I urge this younger generation to look more closely at our traditional clothing and the pride that goes into making it. To look at what this clothing means to the continuation of our culture and traditions. A tradition this younger generation will be the guardians of one day. A tradition they will have to carry on or it will die out with the older generation. No one, Mr. Speaker, can correct this situation, or save our traditions, other than the people to whom the tradition belongs. Thank you Mr. Speaker.

Member's Statement 203-13(5): The Cultural Importance Of Moosehide
Item 3: Members' Statements

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The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Thank you. Members' statements. Mrs. Groenewegen.

Member's Statement 204-13(5): Lahm Ridge Tower Transaction
Item 3: Members' Statements

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Jane Groenewegen

Jane Groenewegen Hay River

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, after the information that has been gathered on the Lahm Ridge Tower deal I will now tell a concise story as I believe the events took place. Al and Hazel Marceau owned the Lahm Ridge Tower. Due to downsizing and the uncertainty with respect to government office space in Yellowknife the Marceaus were unable to extend their leases which reached the end of two consecutive five-year terms in the summer of 1995. Although there were two remaining five-year extensions available under the terms of the original lease, negotiations were terminated and the lease of the Lahm Ridge Tower reverted to overhold or month to month leasing. An internal working document with the Department of Public Works and Services called the Yellowknife office space rationalization plan was developed with at least one draft specifically sighting the termination of the Lahm Ridge leases. The Minister indicated

last week that there was no way of knowing how widespread of the knowledge of the options contained in this document might have been.

After several unsuccessful attempts to extend their leases the Marceaus put their property up for sale listed with a local real estate company at $5.5 million. A southern based company with significant land holdings in Yellowknife called Urbco became interested in the tower and looked at it two or three times. They backed away from it when Public Works and Services would not play ball on lease extensions making financing and purchasing the property unviable. The Marceaus are now between a rock and a hard place. An unleased building the size of the Lahm Ridge Tower is a huge liability in a depressed rental market with over 120,000 square feet of vacant office space. Enter Mr. Bailey and Mr. Mrdjenovich, they looked at the property and made an offer of $4 million. This is $1.8 million less than the declaration of values signed by Mr. Bailey at the time of the transfer. The offer to purchase was subject to financing. Mr. Marceau then went back to Public Works and Services and negotiated the not so burdensome conditions of the lease extensions. The department readily admits that they knew of the pending sale and who the players were. The conditions were easy to achieve given that the deal was very attractive. This is evident by the lender providing more than the purchase price by $200,000 to carry out the renovations and upgrades. This was all accomplished without the necessity of a down payment because there is still a $1.6 million spread between the purchase price and the totally justifiable declared value of $5.8 million.

Member's Statement 204-13(5): Lahm Ridge Tower Transaction
Item 3: Members' Statements

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The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Your time is up, Mrs. Groenewegen.

Member's Statement 204-13(5): Lahm Ridge Tower Transaction
Item 3: Members' Statements

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Jane Groenewegen

Jane Groenewegen Hay River

Mr. Speaker, I would like to seek unanimous consent to conclude my Member's statement. Thank you.

Member's Statement 204-13(5): Lahm Ridge Tower Transaction
Item 3: Members' Statements

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The Speaker Samuel Gargan

The Member for Hay River is seeking unanimous consent to conclude her statement. Do we have any nays? Mrs. Groenewegen, you have unanimous consent to conclude your statement.

Member's Statement 204-13(5): Lahm Ridge Tower Transaction
Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 705

Jane Groenewegen

Jane Groenewegen Hay River

Thank you, Mr. Speaker and thank you colleagues. Commercial buildings are primarily appraised from three approaches, market, replacement cost and, most importantly, income. Who could argue that a building with a guaranteed income of almost $10 million over the next eight years was worth $5.8 million? It was a very safe loan for the Pacific and Western Trust Company, the company which incidently holds 25 percent of the Aurora Investment Fund assets in liquid securities. The fund which Mr. Bailey coincidentally manages. Although the Marceaus did not realize the $5.8 million their building was worth, $4 million was a lot better than the operating overhead on an empty office building. Although Cabinet had not endorsed any office space plan, the deputy minister, Ken Lovely, with absolutely no direction or knowledge of the Minister of Public Works and Services, negotiated an eight-year almost $10 million office lease. This whole transaction, we were told, was done because it was a good deal for the government. It was not a bad deal we gathered for the Marceaus, given the eminent alternative of an empty building. This is a good deal. We do not have to be told from Mr. Mrdjenovich and Mr. Bailey. Was it a good deal for the people of the Northwest Territories? Mr. Speaker, I do not know the answer to that question, but I believe I have taken this issue as far as I can in this forum. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

---Applause

Member's Statement 204-13(5): Lahm Ridge Tower Transaction
Item 3: Members' Statements

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The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Thank you, Mrs. Groenewegen. Members' statements. Mr. Evaloarjuk.

Member's Statement 205-13(5): Gun Control Legislation
Item 3: Members' Statements

February 10th, 1998

Page 705

Mark Evaloarjuk Amittuq

(Translation) Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Today I rise to speak on the gun control issue that was introduced as a new piece of legislation for Canadians in January of 1997. To date, I have not heard of any new progress as to the enforcement, regulations and procedures that are to be in place. We, the Inuit, who are affected as Canadians, by this legislation have never been consulted nor informed as to the laws we should now be aware of. In the absence of this information, we may be guilty of contravening sections of the new gun control laws unwittingly. This can result in charges and court cases through the justice system. If this legislation is, in fact, an enforced law, then the Inuit people must be educated about the contents and how it is to affect them. At the appropriate time, Mr. Speaker, I will be posing questions to the Minister of Justice in this regard. Thank you, Mr. Speaker. (Translation ends)

Member's Statement 205-13(5): Gun Control Legislation
Item 3: Members' Statements

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The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Thank you. Members' statements. Mr. Ootes.

Member's Statement 206-13(5): Contracting Policies
Item 3: Members' Statements

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Jake Ootes

Jake Ootes Yellowknife Centre

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, last March, this House passed a motion asking the government to clarify the government's position on government-wide non-competitive contracts by providing a draft policy to this House. We asked for this because there is no single policy to govern non-competitive contracts across this government. Subsequently, a draft policy was provided on negotiated contracts only, but as mentioned in our motion, this government has a number of ways in which to awarded non-competitive contracts, such as sole-sourced, construction management and site superintendent services. These were not addressed in the draft policy released to the Premier. Mr. Speaker, this is not acceptable.

This House asked for a package addressing all the contracting procedures other than the normal bidding and tendering processes used by the government. Also last October, we passed a motion for the government to clarify the use of requests for proposals. Now we are told the government is dealing directly with private industry on this issue. That is all fine and dandy, but did they produce a draft document to show these companies in order to get meaningful feedback?

There has been a lot of talk in this House lately about transparency in government. Nice buzz words, Mr. Speaker. People have a right to see and understand how decisions are made and under what rules. Potential contractors have the right to know why they lost out on government contracts. Clearly defined policies can resolve this shortcoming, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you.

---Applause

Member's Statement 206-13(5): Contracting Policies
Item 3: Members' Statements

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The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Thank you. Members' statements. Ms. Thompson.

Member's Statement 207-13(5): Hunter Support Programs
Item 3: Members' Statements

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Manitok Thompson Aivilik

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Today I will be tabling a letter from the mayor of Coral Harbour, Johnny Ningeongan to James Arvaluk, carbon copied to Jose Kusugak and Raymond Ningeocheak in regard to the Hunter Support Program. (Translation) Mr. Speaker, there is a concern in our community about the Hunter Support Program and how these funds are being spent. I have a letter from Johnny Ningeongan and addressed to the Nunavut Tunngavik Incorporated. Their concern is how the Hunter Support Program funds are being used. This is a concern from my constituency. I have also received calls from other communities regarding this concern as to how their funds are being used. This letter is to the NTI. Thank you. (Translation ends)

Member's Statement 207-13(5): Hunter Support Programs
Item 3: Members' Statements

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The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Thank you. Members' statements. Mr. Erasmus.

Member's Statement 208-13(5): United Nations Investigation Into Treaty Rights
Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 706

Roy Erasmus Yellowknife North

Mr. Speaker, I rise today to speak about the United Nations representative Alfonso Martinez, who is at the Hay River Reserve this week to speak about and listen to people's interpretations of treaties and their rights. He will be making a report to the United Nations Working Group on Indigenous Populations. Mr. Speaker, a special rapporteur's report could have very serious implications for aboriginal peoples and for the governments which are dealing with aboriginal peoples. The purpose of his report and investigation is to see what treaties mean, if they are international agreements and which rights stem from them.

Mr. Speaker, a previous report on self-determination done by the United Nations led to Canada declaring that aboriginal people have inherent right of self-determination. It also led to the establishment of a working group which is developing the draft United Nations Declaration on Rights of Indigenous Peoples. The working group reports to the United Nations Human Rights Commission. The draft declaration has huge implications. All members of United Nations are supposed to follow United Nations directions and Canada is a member. After the previous report on self-determination which said that all peoples have the right to self-determination, Canada declared that aboriginal people have the inherent right to self-determination and began to implement their policy. Later Canada also made a presentation to the working group working on the Declaration on Rights of Indigenous People. At that point, they put forward a document that said aboriginal people have the right to self-determination as long as that self-determination respects the territorial integrity. Meaning, no right to secession.

Mr. Speaker, students of treaties and treaty rights such as myself, are quite interested to see what the report will say. Mr. Speaker, we are even more interested to see what occurs afterwards, as a result of the report. Thank you.

--Applause

Member's Statement 208-13(5): United Nations Investigation Into Treaty Rights
Item 3: Members' Statements

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The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Thank you. Members' statements. Mr. Krutko.