This is page numbers 1041 - 1091 of the Hansard for the 13th Assembly, 5th Session. The original version can be accessed on the Legislative Assembly's website or by contacting the Legislative Assembly Library. The word of the day was chairperson.

Topics

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1057

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1057

The Chair

The Chair Jane Groenewegen

Thank you. Sergeant-at-Arms. Thank you. I will welcome back the witnesses. For the record, I will just introduce Mr. Dave Ramsden, the deputy minister and Warren St. Germaine, the director of finance for the department. I have Mr. Miltenberger.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1057

Michael Miltenberger

Michael Miltenberger Thebacha

Madam Chairperson. I have some questions on board development, but I will save those until after other questions have been asked. I would appreciate that in the time left whether, in fact, the Minister could provide the information in regard to the strategic reforms of alcohol and drugs and this long anticipated, much awaited care facilities reform.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1057

The Chair

The Chair Jane Groenewegen

Thank you. Mr. Miltenberger. I do not believe you had a question. Did you want the Minister to comment on that? Mr. Miltenberger.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1057

Michael Miltenberger

Michael Miltenberger Thebacha

Thank you, Madam Chairperson. I was just assuming that the questions I asked initially that the Minister basically said he would apply to, would be the ones he would answer when his staff got here. Thank you.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1057

The Chair

The Chair Jane Groenewegen

Thank you. Mr. Ng.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1057

Kelvin Ng Kitikmeot

Thank you, Madam Chairperson. I will ask Mr. Ramsden now to speak on the alcohol and drug reform, the long-term care reform and the status of those two initiatives. Thank you.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1057

The Chair

The Chair Jane Groenewegen

Thank you. Mr. Ramsden.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1057

Ramsden

Thank you, Madam Chairperson. With respect to the alcohol and drug reforms, the department has had a series of discussions and has spent considerable effort working with treatment centre executive directors and boards. There is some element of support directed at the community programs. To back track a bit, there was a set of standards that was developed concurrently or in a consensus environment with the treatment centre executive directors and their boards. The standards were adopted by the department and put forward. The treatment centres are complying with those standards. There is a uniform assessment process now that has been put in place. It is our view based on the evaluations we have done that the assessment tool is being complied with, that it is a practical tool. Obviously, over time, it will evolve, but we think it is relevant tool. It is our view, people who are assessed to both need and be ready for treatment for addictions are getting the access they need. It was our view and we made a recommendation to the Minister which he accepted that we go no further in terms of adjusting the way we pay treatment centres for the coming year. As Members of the committee will recall, we are at a ratio now of 50 percent revenue by contribution and 50 percent by per diem. It was felt by the treatment centres and the department that we could not go any further into a totally per diem environment.

We have made considerable progress in terms of both resourcing and having training for treatment centre workers conducted. In terms of an evaluation of funding for the community drug and alcohol programs, we made a further recommendation to the Minister which he accepted that we not adjust the way in which those community projects were funded for the coming year. We had put forward some amount of change in 1997-1998, and it was felt community projects would not be able, quite frankly, to cope with any adjustments downward. Obviously, communities could benefit from more money but there was no ability to cope with a further reduction, so we stood down that change.

With respect to care reform, the focus of the department, various facilities and boards had been on a couple of different elements. One of them was either the closure or the changing of services provided in smaller facilities. We went through a series of decisions that focused on three and four-bed care facilities. In each case, to the best of my knowledge these facilities are still able to operate as independent housing units but there was no way we could sustain 24-hour care in those facilities. The team went through a very extensive needs assessment with a variety of groups in the Deh Cho about how care could be provided in the Deh Cho and how the facilities needed to be adjusted. In fact, the report was adopted and the design work around the changes is underway with the board. There have been some preliminary steps taken in terms of care reform in Fort Smith. The area that the department is primarily focused on at this time is in the area of care and treatment facilities for children. There have been two meetings. There is an extensive series of discussions going on that are assessing both the needs and the gaps around services for children. This is certainly where that project has taken us now. It is very much into assessing and altering the range and mix of services that over time we will be able to develop for children. Thank you, Madam Chairperson.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1058

The Chair

The Chair Jane Groenewegen

Thank you. Mr. Ramsden. Operations and maintenance, total operations and maintenance Mr. Krutko.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1058

David Krutko

David Krutko Mackenzie Delta

Thank you, Madam Chairperson. My question to the Minister is in regard to motions that are passed by committee or in committee of the whole. Exactly what does the department do with those motions once they have been passed?

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1058

The Chair

The Chair Jane Groenewegen

Thank you, Mr. Krutko. Mr. Ng.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1058

Kelvin Ng Kitikmeot

Thank you, Madam Chairperson. Madam Chairperson, the department, as a government, takes all committee motions and the recommendations that come forward from committee of the whole and try to work with them when we can. Unfortunately, we cannot support all of them because of implementing them to our other programs. Thank you, Madam Chairperson.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1058

The Chair

The Chair Jane Groenewegen

Thank you. Mr. Krutko.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1058

David Krutko

David Krutko Mackenzie Delta

Thank you, Madam Chairperson. In regard to other interested groups like the RCMP in which basically they have a lot of concerns, especially dealing with the communities and health and social issues that have an effect on their area, which is justice. There is an overlap, especially when you talk about treatment programs and dealing with a lot of these alcohol and drug related offenses, where they could, hopefully, be dealt with in the communities. Does the department or the Minister take the positions of the different groups such as the RCMP, health board or community organizations? How do they develop them into new proposals that this government is looking at to possibly consider making changes to the way we do things now? Is there a process that the government uses? Who makes the final decision? Is it the department itself, the deputy minister or yourself as the Minister? How does that scenario work in regard to trying to get the input from other groups and agencies that do have an interest in health and social services?

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1058

The Chair

The Chair Jane Groenewegen

Thank you, Mr. Krutko. Mr. Ng.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1058

Kelvin Ng Kitikmeot

Thank you, Madam Chairperson. Madam Chairperson, a lot would depend on what type of initiative or program they would be trying to get off the ground. If I can use an analogy, if there was something in the honourable Member's riding, and I know he refers a lot to the Tl'oondih program. If they had a program they wanted to get off the ground and there is a recognized and supported need in the community then they would work at the community level to develop a proposal that could be forwarded to the board. If I use, again, an example of some of the Strategic Initiative Funds that we have in Inuvik, a board will have an amount of money accessible to do mental health programs, for example. If it is chosen as to what they feel is a priority, then they can gear a program toward what could theoretically be run out of the Tl'oondih program or on that site, particularly, if it is supported at the community and regional level, Madam Chairperson. Thank you.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1058

The Chair

The Chair Jane Groenewegen

Thank you, Mr. Ng. Mr. Krutko.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1058

David Krutko

David Krutko Mackenzie Delta

Thank you, Madam Chairperson. Has your department looked at the possibility of formulating joint venture agreements between Justice and yourself, dealing with the large cost to the government, especially when you are transferring inmates and trying to find some sort of program within the communities, so it is developed closer to home and you are dealing with the problem in your communities? Dealing with the cost locally is probably going to be a lot cheaper than trying to deal with it in a large institution such as a jail or a facility outside of the riding or the community. Has there been every effort made between yourself in regard to other departments trying to consolidate some sort of working relationship to deal with a lot of these issues that have overlapping implications on both sides? It does not just affect one group. It also affects other agencies within the government. Has anything been done to look at developing programs, so that they can basically do that?

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1058

The Chair

The Chair Jane Groenewegen

Thank you, Mr. Krutko. Mr. Ng.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1058

Kelvin Ng Kitikmeot

Thank you, Madam Chairperson. Madam Chairperson, first of all we have tried to allow the communities, whether it is at the community level or at the board level to have as much autonomy as possible by giving them the resources and the tools to try to develop programs to address the issues in their service area. A lot of our communities, if not all of them, have interagency committees that bring in the spectrum of health and social services care professions, including the RCMP as a part of that. The boards recently have taken on the committee's supervision initiative through the Department of Justice to provide some of the supervision for some of the individuals who are held in their communities.

We also have on a broader territorial level our social envelope committee of Cabinet that has the social envelope departments. It fits right in hand with what I had spoken on earlier on the socio-economic group and some of the broader cross-departmental issues that we could possibly put together on a longer term to try to address some of these issues in supporting individuals and communities, Madam Chairperson.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1058

The Chair

The Chair Jane Groenewegen

Thank you, Mr. Ng. Mr. Krutko.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1058

David Krutko

David Krutko Mackenzie Delta

Thank you, Madam Chairperson. A lot of times a development of such a scenario takes resources and infrastructure. It is great to have these committees and scenarios, but it seems like the biggest problem you have at the community level is, there are not enough financial resources to do an adequate job. Basically, everybody is limited. The

aspect of their funding is limited to that particular item through income support, social services or health or whatever. There has got to be the ability to move resources around and develop something that is workable and it is there for the long term. You cannot give it a quick fix and the problem goes away. The problem is going to continue on. You cannot continue on from year-to-year by putting proposals forth. There has to be some ability when these scenarios are looked at, the long-term planning in regard to knowing that you are developing five and ten-year plans in which you may have to fund these programs for five or ten years. You look at the financial savings to this government regarding the other costs associated with having to deal with social services regarding welfare and looking at the costs of policing, enforcement and all these other factors have to be looked at. There is sort of a balancing act of where you may see savings, but also that there has to be funds put in place in the long term. Have there been any programs developed to consider looking at developing a long-term scenario to deal with a lot of these health, alcohol, drug and social issues that a lot of communities find themselves in? We all realize they are there, but it is a question of looking at it as a long-term solution, not just a quick fix and hopefully it will go away. What has been done to look at such a proposal or scenario to remap the way we do things now with the idea that we talk about community empowerment and regional empowerment? At the end of the day, because of the geography and the size of the communities, they are limited on what, if they really want to do an adequate job, they either have to develop the infrastructure or look at long-term funding. I think that we have to go back to that scenario of long-term funding. Has the department looked at such a scenario so that we can look at it as a long-term fix, not just a short-term fix?

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1059

The Chair

The Chair Jane Groenewegen

Thank you, Mr. Krutko. Mr. Ng.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1059

Kelvin Ng Kitikmeot

Thank you, Madam Chairperson. Madam Chairperson, there have been several initiatives, that have been ongoing. This government had the community action plan where we tried to assist communities in developing their own wellness plans. In the past, we know that we did eliminate that funding, or reduced it, through the federal government.

There is the wellness action plan whose work is ongoing right now in conjunction with our government and with the aboriginal organizations through the brighter futures. Our government also has community development funds through Education, Culture and Employment and through Municipal and Community Affairs in respect to developing and training resources at the community level. I think what is important to note as well, in respect of financial resources, we recognize that there is a lot of duplication in administration out there of resources. One of the community empowerment and community wellness initiatives was to try to pool some of those resources to get some efficiencies there; to get some fiscal flexibility to communities at a local level or regionally; to allow them to make decisions so that hopefully they can enhance their programs and break down some of the barriers between agencies and between government departments, Madam Chairperson. Thank you.