Thank you. To the motion. Mr. Steen.

To the motion. Mr. Erasmus.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Indeed, this is a difficult decision to make as many of the previous speakers have indicated. This is not a decision to be made lightly; however, Mr. Speaker, I cannot support this motion. For one thing, just because the Premier should be held in high regard is no reason to step down when someone makes unsubstantiated allegations.

Secondly, I believe there will be negative connotations. First of all, for the way the government operates. Obviously, you are not going to be as efficient if you do not have a Premier and the rest of the Ministers, whoever would have taken his place, would have to take time from their own departments in order to fulfil that work. I do not like the precedent that would be set, not only for the Premier from here, but Premiers from across Canada, if someone makes an allegation about them, simply because they are supposed to be held in high regard, they step down. I do not think that is the way to go. I also wanted to indicate that a person is innocent until they are proven guilty. I believe we should let the process continue. The next stage is the inquiry and at that point, if the claims are substantiated, then action would be taken in this House. Mr. Speaker, I too have not received any calls asking for the Minister to step down. I have talked to people who wanted clarification as to what was going on, what was in the report and what happens next. I have also consulted with people whom I consider knowledgeable and whose opinions I respect and they have told me they did not feel the Premier should step down and, Mr. Speaker, I cannot support this motion. Thank you.

To the motion. Mr. Henry.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, as Mr. Erasmus mentioned, a number of Members have spoken about how difficult this question is. I have no doubt that it is very difficult for Mrs. Groenewegen. I have no doubt it is as equally as difficult for the Premier. I have no doubt it is difficult for Mr. Ootes and Mr. Krutko to take the actions they have taken. I know it is difficult for Members here to be talking about ourselves and supposedly judging one of ourselves in an open forum.

Mr. Speaker, I had the privilege and the pleasure of serving the Northwest Territories as a Justice of the Peace, and I remember very early on, sitting in a court room and the accused person would come in. The police officer, whether it was RCMP or local by-law officer would read the charge and give their side of the story. I remember often sitting there, listening to the police officer giving his side of the story and I was thinking, I wonder what this individual is showing up for, he is obviously guilty. I am listening to all this information. It did not take me too long, Mr. Speaker, to find out that there are always two sides to every story. At this stage, my understanding of what the Conflict of Interest Commissioner has advised, in her report is, she needs additional information to make a decision. Something I agree with very much, Mr. Speaker, is an individual's right to be presumed innocent until proven guilty. We extend that to people who have been accused of rape or murder. We can surely extend that privilege in this situation. I have concerns, Mr. Speaker, about the precedent it would set if the Premier was forced to step aside. I think it would open up the potential for accusations to be brought against someone, knowing that a precedent has been set, they would have to step aside. I have much more concern about the precedent that would set, than what a small period of time it would take until the Conflict of Interest Commissioner will be able to bring forward her report, and give a more definitive answer to the question that has been asked by Mrs. Groenewegen. So, I will not be supporting this motion at this time, Mr. Speaker. Thank you.

To the motion. Mr. Roland.

To the motion. Mrs. Groenewegen.

To the motion. Mr. Morin.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, earlier today I had a Premier's comment on this whole issue of stepping aside as a Premier. I said at that time that I thought it would be setting a dangerous precedent for this government and for all Premiers in Canada because it would encourage individuals to make such broadly worded complaints without specifics and without supporting statements in the expectation that the Premier would step aside. I would like to thank the Members who spoke for support of the process that is underway. The process will, in the end come out with the truth and I have every confidence in that process so I encourage Members to vote whichever way they feel. I have also told Cabinet Members that they have a free vote. Thank you.

To the motion. Mr. Picco.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, some of the Members have noted it is very difficult to judge your own. In other jurisdictions, in other occupations and walks of life, there are different precedents taken for investigations. For example, if you are an RCMP officer and you are under investigation for some aspect of your job, you are temporarily reassigned and taken away from your duties, usually with pay. If you are in the medical profession and you are being disciplined by your organization, or a lawyer, the same thing happens. You are taken away from that position, usually with full pay pending the outcome of your case. In the case of politics, parliamentary process has a strong link to traditions and the precedents are set. Over the past couple of years, there have been at least two cases of Premiers who have been involved in investigations of conflict. One was involving the Premier of Alberta, Mr. Klein,

who did not step down and also Mr. Van Zalm, the Premier of British Columbia, who did not step down either. The difference between the Premier and the Minister is, the Minister holds a portfolio of the government and usually steps down in the case of federal or provincial governments. An example would be Sinclair Stevens a few years ago.

There is no precedent in the Canadian parliamentary system where the Premier stepped down during an investigation. Premier Morin is correct in saying that it would set a precedent and probably a wrong precedent. This is one of the ramifications of Mr. Ootes' motion. I do not think Mr. Ootes has made the motion callously or deviously. I have spoken to Mr. Ootes about his motion and I believe Mr. Ootes made the motion honourably. Because of the precedents at this time and because the investigation is just opening now and there is going to be a public inquiry where some of us here today may be subpoenaed to appear before that inquiry, I would be, at this time, voting against the motion. My decision is not based upon the facts as presented, but based on the precedents of office. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you. To the motion. Mr. Enuaraq.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. It was almost three and one half years ago when Mr. Premier was running for the Premier's position and most of us were in the House when he was making his speech to become a Premier. I can remember the exact words he was saying to the people of the Northwest Territories. He was saying, "I do not expect respect from you unless I respect you." I think the people of the Northwest Territories had respect for him and Members of this Legislative Assembly had respect for him and that respect will continue until the person is proven guilty. For that reason, Mr. Speaker, I will not be supporting the motion. Thank you.

Thank you. To the motion. Mr. O'Brien.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I do not think the discussions here today or this motion are about innocence or guilt in reference to the Premier and the allegations. It is about the process. I believe there is some merit in the motion. I also have some reservations regarding the amount of time that we have had to discuss it and have some dialogue with the people back in our ridings. I have had the opportunity to speak to some people regarding the issue and it was a mixed kettle of fish for the most. Some felt that the Premier should step down and some felt that he should not. Nevertheless, I have thought about this all week. I was home in my riding when the results of the review came out and had an opportunity to listen objectively to some of the comments that were being made. Mr. Speaker, it is difficult at the best of times to look at somebody across the floor and question their integrity or the allegations that are being directed toward them. Having said that, Mr. Speaker, I do not want to be made to feel intimated and I do not want to feel any type of political threat. I also do not want to make the Premier or his family feel they have been treated unfairly. Mr. Speaker, having said this, I am sure the Premier can understand my comments and my decision on this motion. I have heard at different times from Ministers across the floor to have the courage of your convictions. Mr. Speaker, at this point in time, I feel that, to coin an old phrase, a man has to do what a man has to do. As a result, Mr. Speaker, I will be supporting the motion. Thank you.

Thank you. To the motion. Do you have closing remarks, Mr. Ootes?

Thank you, Mr. Ootes. The Member for Yellowknife Centre is requesting a recorded vote. All those in favour, please stand.

Mr. Ootes. Mr. O'Brien. Mr. Krutko.

All those opposed, please stand.