Oh God, may your spirit and guidance be in us as we work for the benefit of all our people, for peace and justice in our land and for constant recognition of the dignity and aspirations of those whom we serve. Amen.

Good afternoon, colleagues. I would like to make a little statement about Seniors Week. As a "senior" Member, or at least the eldest MLA present in the House, I would like to take a moment to acknowledge Senior Citizens Week. June 18 to 24, 2000, has been proclaimed Senior Citizens Week by the Honourable Vince Steen, Minister responsible for Seniors.

It is a time to recognize and honour seniors in the Northwest Territories and all over. I would like the contributions of seniors and elders to be acknowledged and to promote positive attitudes towards seniors and elders.

Activities for Seniors Week will be held throughout the Northwest Territories this week. I encourage everyone to get involved in Seniors Week events in their community. Elders are one of our most valuable resources. Let us celebrate them.

-- Applause

Orders of the day. Item 2, Ministers' statements. Item 3, Members' statements. The honourable Member for Frame Lake, Mr. Dent.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I rise today as the chair for the Standing Committee on Accountability and Oversight. Mr. Speaker, members of the committee are concerned about how human resources functions are being undertaken in our government. We will concentrate on this issue today during Members' statements and question period.

Mr. Speaker, we need a representative workforce where our employees are treated fairly and have the opportunity for advancement. The break-up of the Department of Personnel was sold in 1992-93 as a cost-saving measure. However, indications are that we are probably spending more today on personnel functions than we were then.

There has apparently been a 21 percent increase in human resource positions, from 114 in 1991 to 138 in March of 2000. At the same time, there has been a 43 percent decrease in the number of GNWT employees. Our employees have gone down from 6,133 to 3,481 over that same period of time. This means that the Government of the Northwest Territories is spending more money providing services to staff. To do that, we have to be taking money out of programs and services, where it could otherwise be spent.

Mr. Speaker, we are concerned the departments are not following staffing policies and guidelines in the recruitment process, and that there is no monitoring of the process by the government.

We believe that an independent agency may be the only way to ensure hiring practices are fair throughout the Government of the Northwest Territories.

Mr. Speaker, we are concerned with the lack of commitment and progress in affirmative action hiring. Mr. Speaker, aboriginal representation in the GNWT has not increased in the last five years. Aboriginal representation in management has increased only marginally. There is obviously a need for better coordination of public service career training funding with the government departments. A clear indication of this is that this government has lapsed almost $1 million over the past three years in public service career training, money that could have been used to train and promote affirmative action candidates in the Government of the Northwest Territories.

Mr. Speaker, to deal with all of these concerns, we need a Public Service Commission. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you, Mr. Dent. Item 3, Members' statements. The honourable Member for Thebacha, Mr. Miltenberger.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, over the past decade, there have been tremendous changes in the government's approach to the delivery of human resource services.

In the early 1990s, all personnel were centralized in one department. A few departments had individuals who assisted with human resource planning, but not many. This was a time when the government was involved in the equal-pay study, before the pay equity court case, and the GHRS, the predecessor to PeopleSoft, was developed in-house.

In 1993, the government began to dismantle Personnel, moving functions like benefits, labour relations and job evaluation to the Financial Management Board Secretariat. In early 1996, staffing and benefits were transferred to departments, along with the staff to do the work. Regional offices were dissolved. Over the next two years, many responsibilities were also transferred to deputy ministers and departments in areas like labour relations.

In 1998, the new Hay system for evaluating jobs was implemented, along with giving responsibilities for evaluation to departments. In 1998, work began on the much vaunted PeopleSoft system, which was implemented in 1999.

In 1998, a new unit in the Executive was created, corporate human resource services, which has central human resource responsibilities along with the Financial Management Board Secretariat. Mr. Speaker, given all the change, it makes sense that the government would want to do an objective evaluation to determine what is working and what is not.

We have to look at the big picture and all the parts. Are there enough checks and balances in place to ensure departments are following government human resource policy? After 11 years, what needs to be done to change the Affirmative Action Policy, a policy which has seen only a two percent, a paltry, meagre two percent increase in aboriginal participation in the GNWT.

With PeopleSoft now up and running, and significantly over-budget, I might add, is an evaluation of the start-up in order? How is it working? Is the current delivery system working as well outside of Yellowknife as the old system of regional personnel officers used to? Who is responsible for tracking and recording our human resource practices? Who is coordinating important human resource practices like performance appraisals, which, government-wide, is a very dismal figure?

Performance appraisal completion rates, exit interviews...has decentralization worked for everything? Are there areas where central expertise and advice would be better served? Mr. Speaker, I seek unanimous consent to conclude my statement.

Thank you, Mr. Miltenberger. The Member for Thebacha is seeking unanimous consent to conclude his statement. Are there any nays? There are no nays. You may conclude.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Why does the government keep leaving the health and social services and education boards out of human resource reporting when they represent two of our largest groups of employees? Why does it take more human resource staff now, including more managers, to deliver the same programs to fewer people than it did ten years ago?

I hope the government will give serious consideration to a review of its human resource delivery system and practices, and come out with a comprehensive, government-wide human resource strategy. Saying people are too busy is not an excuse. Perhaps a review would find areas where time and money could be better spent. If people, Mr. Speaker, are truly our most important resource, then they should be worth the time to make sure we are supporting them in the best possible way.

There are two things that we need: a comprehensive human resource strategy and an independent agency to oversee the government's human resource strategy. Thank you.

-- Applause

Thank you, Mr. Miltenberger. Item 3, Members' statements. The honourable Member for North Slave, Mr. Lafferty.

Thank you, Mr. Lafferty. Item 3, Members' statements. The honourable Member for Great Slave, Mr. Braden.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, Towards a Better Tomorrow, the vision document of this Assembly, acknowledges the key role and the value of human resources in the Northwest Territories in the development of this new Territory as we seek to realize the potential of our great land.

For the Government of the Northwest Territories, our direct instrument in carrying out our policies and projects, implementing laws and regulations, is the public service of the Northwest Territories.

There are some 3,000 government positions representing more than seven percent of the population of public policy for our government. In reviewing Towards a Better Tomorrow, I believe a higher profile, greater credibility and recognition should be attached to the role of the public service.

As a result of the division of the Territories, the government's position of severe financial restraint in the past few years, decentralization and increased expectations of the public and politicians, has resulted in dramatic and often unsettling impacts on the public service.

The Auditor General of Canada has recently observed on the negative impact of the loss of senior, long-term public servants in the federal government. Closer to home, the Northwest Territories public service has suffered similar losses of senior, long-term management employees, eroding our corporate memory and contributing to further instability and decreased productivity. The ever-present uncertainty of job cuts as a result of the need to find additional budget reductions by departments is causing a further decline in morale and productivity.

Mr. Speaker, I believe the Northwest Territories offers exciting new employment opportunities in the private and aboriginal organization sectors. This further adds to the difficulty for our public service to attract qualified and experienced employees. The southern employment situation with expanding economies will see further difficulty for us in attracting much-needed health care and other qualified professionals to our Territory. There are a number of aspects of the public service which are of concern to me. Principally, I lend my support to the concept of a Public Service Commission or labour relations board.

In conclusion, I wish to acknowledge the tremendous support and dedication, Mr. Speaker, of the public service of this government to the people of the Northwest Territories. Thank you.

-- Applause

Merci beaucoup, Mr. Braden. Item 3, Members' statements. The honourable Member for Deh Cho, Mr. McLeod.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, my statement today concerns affirmative action. Mr. Speaker, the Government of the Northwest Territories identifies three groups of people for preference in employment, training and promotion under the Affirmative Action Policy. Aboriginal persons are priority one.

Mr. Speaker, the current Affirmative Action Policy was implemented in 1989 when it replaced the Northern Hiring Policy. Yet today, 11 years later, the aboriginal people occupy only 15 percent of the management positions and overall 31 percent. Since 1991, there has been only a two percent increase in aboriginal representation within the Government of the Northwest Territories' workforce.

When the decision was made to dissolve the Department of Personnel, the onus was placed on each department to achieve results. This did not seem to work as we have only seen minimal results to-date.

Mr. Speaker, as a Member representing a riding of mostly aboriginal people, this is of great concern to me. It seems this government would like us to believe that there are few qualified aboriginals out there and there is stiff competition from diamond and oil companies. I also hear that there are very few Northerners with proper credentials. I cannot accept those arguments. I personally know of many people here in Yellowknife and in the communities with degrees and college diplomas who cannot get jobs in the GNWT.

Mr. Speaker, when we look at the results of the Affirmative Action Policy, we all have to agree that it has not done what it was supposed to. Is it because the program is not being implemented properly? Is it because there is no one department overseeing this program? Mr. Speaker, there are probably many reasons why this program is not working. However, I do not believe that the policy in itself is the problem.

This government has to take a serious look at the barriers to allowing this program to work. We also have to look at ways to complement this program. In other jurisdictions, they have actively gone out and selected individuals for management positions. By targeting individuals to take job training and instruction, they have helped them move into management positions. These may be possible solutions.

In any case, Mr. Speaker, improvement in the area of increasing the representation of target groups in the public service is something that cannot come soon enough. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

-- Applause

Thank you, Mr. McLeod. Item 3, Members' statements. The honourable Member for Tu Nedhe, Mr. Nitah.

Thank you, Mr. Nitah. Item 3, Members' statements. The honourable Member for Range Lake, Ms. Lee.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I am pleased to take the opportunity to speak about one of the most controversial issues of the day, that being the Affirmative Action Policy, not the hotel tax.

Right off the bat, Mr. Speaker, I can advise you that this is one of the most frequently raised issues an MLA like myself has to address on a daily basis. And we have all heard the arguments on both sides, Mr. Speaker. There are some who truly believe that such a policy is merely an instrument of reverse discrimination, favouring one group over another. I appreciate where they may be coming from.

At the same time, Mr. Speaker, I personally know of many people, in and out of my constituency, who even though they are amply qualified, continue to be discriminated against in their pursuit of employment with the GNWT. Many of them, I might add, Mr. Speaker, are aboriginal people.

The immutable fact is that all forms of discrimination are based on factors no one can change, whether it be gender, ancestry, race, age, disability, et cetera. The list goes on.

My response to this is always that the purpose of the Affirmative Action Policy is to simply ensure that a public body like the GNWT reflects the true picture of the people it serves. I might also add, Mr. Speaker, that this is absolutely in mind with the basic Canadian principle entrenched in the Charter of Rights, under section 15(2).

I have to believe that if we go deep into it, the problem most people have with an Affirmative Action Policy is certainly not with its underlying principles of equality and fairness, but how well the policy is applied in practice. For this reason, Mr. Speaker, if the government is truly committed to this policy and these basic principles, it is crucial that it takes a lead role in being ever so vigilant about all aspects of this policy. At minimum, there must be an effective mechanism in place for independent and fair hearing to all of those who feel they have been unfairly treated under the policy.

With that, Mr. Speaker, I give notice to the responsible Minister that I will be pursuing this further with questions. Thank you.

-- Applause

Thank you, Ms. Lee. Item 3, Members' statements. The honourable Member for Mackenzie Delta, Mr. Krutko.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, regarding the comments of my colleagues, I feel it is important that this government take these points seriously, especially in the area of affirmative action, ensuring we meet those goals.

One of the big arguments we hear from the government is that people do not have the training to take on the area of management. Yet, Mr. Speaker, in the 1999-2000 fiscal year budget, there was $619,000 identified for public service training to allow aboriginal people within government to take training so they can get the senior management jobs.

Mr. Speaker, I find it appalling that in relation to the $619,000 that was identified $403,000 of that money was lapsed. That is uncalled for, especially when the argument we are hearing from government is that people are under-trained and they do not have the expertise. I find it hard to sit here and say we are not making an effort to meet those goals we have set, which is a policy of this government, and has been here for several years. This issue has been around for as long as I can remember. I believe that something has to be done. We cannot allow dollars such as this to be lapsed, which could be better spent ensuring aboriginal people in government receive training and have the ability to move up the ladder so they can take on positions in senior management in the upper branch of government.

Mr. Speaker, I will be asking questions to the appropriate Minister on this matter. Thank you.

-- Applause

Thank you, Mr. Krutko. Item 3, Members' statements. The honourable Member for Inuvik Boot Lake, Mr. Roland.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, management of human resources has been a thorn in the side of this government and of governments before. An example is the Affirmative Action Policy. Is it working across government departments? I would say no, Mr. Speaker.

An example is the appeals that are handled by this government. I am aware that 28 percent of the appeals that have been filed have been successful. To me, that shows a sign that in fact, our system is not working.

Mr. Speaker, it is time for a positive change. This government has stated that it will do things differently. It has an opportunity now to walk the talk. Mr. Speaker, if there was a Public Service Commission put in place by this government, I think initially we would see an increase in the appeals, because employees would have more trust in that system. On top of that, I think in the long run it would improve the morale of our employees in the government. This government has made points of the fact that we have to improve on the treatment of our employees. I believe this is an opportunity to walk the talk, as we say, to make good with our employees.

We will not have many opportunities. The time is short, Mr. Speaker, to be able to move forward and make positive changes in the short time span that we have in the 14th Assembly.

Mr. Speaker, I will be following up with questions in the area of appeals. Hopefully, the government will take action and institute a Public Service Commission that employees can feel it is for them and it is at arms length from this government. It will start showing where this government can improve on dealing with its employees. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

-- Applause

Thank you, Mr. Roland. Item 3, Members' statements. The honourable Member for Yellowknife South, Mr. Bell.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I would like to talk today about what I perceive is a need for a Public Service Commission in the GNWT. I recently had a constituent come into my office and talk to me about a situation in which she felt she was not treated fairly in a competition. She was a P1. She had numerous years of management experience with this government. She had been out of the workforce for a year. She sought out a competition just like a job she had done in the past. She did not even make the short list.

She was very upset about this and asked my advice as to what I felt she should do. In clear conscience, I could not suggest that she grieve the situation. I think this was the way she felt as well. She was very worried about the possibility of being blacklisted by the department. The avenue for grievance seemed to be to go back to the very same people who did not include her in the short list. Clearly, this was not a workable situation, Mr. Speaker.

I think other Members in this House have all had similar situations. I think we know it is a real problem. As I was going door to door during the campaign, one of the issues that was raised and one of the suggestions that was made to me by some constituents was to set up a Public Service Commission reporting to the Legislative Assembly, not to the government. It would create a needed distance between politicians and public servants, reinforce hiring on the basis of merit, yet still allow for the diversity that we need here in the North. It would also ensure that government follows its own employment and hiring policy.

Mr. Speaker, I believe we are the only jurisdiction in Canada, except for Nunavut, that does not have a Public Service Commission. The federal government has one. The provinces have one as well. Every time we see a situation like this where we seem to be the only jurisdiction without something, we have to ask ourselves if we are breaking trail or if we are a jurisdiction that does not need to protect its public service. I think the answer is no, Mr. Speaker.

The Public Service Commission for the federal government has a quasi-judicial authority to hear and investigate staffing appeals and is accountable to Parliament, not a Minister. The independence of the PSC from political interference was the driving force for the creation of the PSC. The commission administers the provisions of the Public Service Employment Act, governing the political rights of public servants without fear or reprisal, Mr. Speaker.

At the appropriate time today, I will have questions for the Minister on a Public Service Commission. Thank you.

-- Applause